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View Full Version : Alex Smith Career Stats #1 Pick Last Year vs Vince Young Career Stats


Frank_The_Tank
04-06-2006, 01:46 AM
O.K. They both played in Shotgun Based Offenses.

Alex Smith Career Totals
Games Played 25
RUSHING ATT 286 YRDS 1434 LOSS 362 NET 1072 TD 15 AVG 3.75
PASSING ATT 587 COMP 389 YRDS 5203 TD 47 INT 8
Two Point Conv 1
Receiving NO 3 YDS 38 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 62 POINTS 372
National Championships 0


http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2004&org=732&player=11

Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 6.84
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488
National Championships 1

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=703&player=10

Frank_The_Tank
04-06-2006, 01:49 AM
Alex Smith #1 overall and was taken over Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown both who were just as good if not better than Reggie Bush, and Alex Smith played in a very weak Conference! He was drafted by a Team in dire need of a QB because the one they had was terrible, kinda sounds familiar, and he had to sit out most of the year last year and learn while the 49ers continued to stink and they tried to force him out their and it backfired. He only had one TD as a rookie, and it was against the Texans LOL! Young is way better than Smith and he still does not get the props.

Nighthawk
04-06-2006, 02:05 AM
Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 6.84
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488
National Championships 1

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=703&player=10

VY accounted for 81 touchdowns in his college career? Am I crazy, or is that a lot of touchdowns?

CoastalTexan
04-06-2006, 02:35 AM
The INT ratio is interesting, but I always remember vince throwin alot of them.

Trapped
04-06-2006, 02:50 AM
BigDave, nor Ronnie Brown, Caddilac, or Ced Benson is the kind of prospect Reggie Bush is.

Think of it this way since u will never be in the Bush Bandwagon.(even though u will be once he gets drafted by the Texans)

Leinert was considered better than Alex Smith last year and better than VY this year, but Bush is considered a better prospect than Leinert. Therefore

Bush > Leinert > VINCE YOUNG > Alex SMith

Texans86
04-06-2006, 03:06 AM
Wait a second. Alex Smith and Vince Young ran similar offenses. Alex Smith put up 1 passing touchdown. And you want Young why? Ok, he is better than Smith, but even the devilish Carr put up like 9. And that was on an expansion team with cottage cheese for a line. These arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

thunderkyss
04-06-2006, 07:45 AM
I agree....... this is a poor argument, and never really should have been brought up.

I kinda see where BigDave350 is headed, but AlexSmith is soooo bad, there are too many angles that can be turned against the Draft Vince Young argument.

The 49ers drafted him #1 overall, because he was the best of a poor lot of players(relatively speaking) much the same way David Carr was.

Cadillac & Ronnie Brown shared the ball in college, so it was looked at as a negative last year....... definitely not the kind of player you'd want to take with the #1 overall........ But, I guess because of thier success in '05, it has turned into a plus for Reggie, much like Vick's struggles in Atlanta have turned into negatives for Vince.

In the case of the 49ers, they couldn't get out of that spot, and had to do something. Looking back, is a bit easier to figure out what they should've done.
But the 49ers have been making bad decessions almost 10 years running now. Even though everyone wants to blame Terrell for their problems, it goes much deeper than that.......... he was just their scapegoat.

Lucky
04-06-2006, 08:36 AM
The 49ers drafted him #1 overall, because he was the best of a poor lot of players(relatively speaking) much the same way David Carr was.

No, the 49ers were reaching for a QB in a weak class. Carr was a legit top pick. I can't remember any football expert at that time say Carr was a reach (though Kiper & Ourlads had Harrington higher).

The Texans were drafting a young QB and putting him behind a vet offensive line. The problem was that line never materialized. That's when the troubles began as Casserly & Capers tried to piece together a front wall made of scraps. Knowing now how that scenario would play out, of course it was a bad choice to take a QB #1. But no one had that foresight, and the selection of David Carr as the first pick was never questioned.

And you're right, Alex Smith is a really bad example to bring up to justify Vince Young as the 1st pick in the draft. But I wouldn't give up on Smith, he still has talent. Alex Smith is, however, an excellent example to illustrate that Young should not play in his rookie season.

KSig44
04-06-2006, 08:53 AM
If Smith came out in this draft he would be the 4th best QB on the board. Bad comparison. He was taken on his upside potential, and in this draft he would lose that battle to VY.

bad
04-06-2006, 09:24 AM
Alex Smith #1 overall and was taken over Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown both who were just as good if not better than Reggie Bush...
Stop it. You're killing me.

TexanFan881
04-06-2006, 09:36 AM
Alex Smith #1 overall and was taken over Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown both who were just as good if not better than Reggie Bush

Reggie Bush is the next Gale Sayers. I didn't hear anything like that about Cadillac and Ronnie. Reggie was a better college player, but I'm not going to jump ahead and say he will be a better NFL player.

TreWardTxn
04-06-2006, 10:03 AM
If you want to talk about a prototypical back for the incoming offense, then Ronnie Brown is definetely that type of runner. He's like Mike Anderson between the tackles with the speed to pull away from most LBs and safeties, and has enough strength to drag cornerbacks and push the pile. He has good hands out the backfield, can block, and play in short yardage. If Ronnie were in this year's draft and the Texans had to take a running back, I would hope they trade out of the top spot, accumulate an extra pick, and bring in Brown. I don't see how anybody could see that as a crazy idea.

He might not ever been sent to run 40 yards downfield and catch passes in college, but IMO, that's what receviers are for, and I don't think Bush will be utilized in that aspect as much as people believe...

Frank_The_Tank
04-06-2006, 10:14 AM
This is a good comparison, Young is much more poslished passer his Snr Season than Alex Smith and Alex was a shotgun throw every play QB, Vince Could hang with the guy as a passer. You Bush Homers scream and cry "Its not fair you can't compare Bush and Young as rushers :crying:" because the stats and film show that Vince is a better runner than Reggie Bush. Well I now compare him to the #1 last year. Its funny with you guys, you say Bush this Bush that, Vince blows his stats away, you say Cad. Williams, Ronnie Brown, Bush is better, dude, have you forgotten why most people feel that the USC being crowned Nat Champs is bogus, its because of Aurburn... You guys should get off your knee's for long enough to grasp reality.

Frank_The_Tank
04-06-2006, 10:17 AM
Oh and after looking at the Pro Day, Vince is way better, and way more accurate than Matt Leinart. In three years we'll see which of the three QB's in this years draft are in the playoffs and who are riding pine. We wont have to worry about Reggie in three years because he is going to be injured so often that his name will be a ancient memory.

Errant Hothy
04-06-2006, 10:20 AM
You guys should get off your knee's for long enough to grasp reality.

Apperantly we need to grasp the reality were Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of Payton Manning also.

Smith and Young ran very similar offenses in college, the difference was (and i doubt anybody will dispute this) is that VY is a better athlete then Smith. And VY had more plays called for him to run then Smith ever did. Add to that the VY played with alot more talent (by several orders of magnitude) then Utah could ever dream of putting on the feild. Comparing VY to last years Qb class is weak, cause last years QB class sucked...bad; if VY's numbers weren't better then that poor group of QBs he'd likely be a 2nd round pick not a top 10.

KSig44
04-06-2006, 10:23 AM
Ever thought the reason Vy has better stats is because Texas focused the offense around him. He was pretty much all they had. USC had to share the ball around many other talented athletes.:rolleyes:

Now, why haven't I seen a comparison between Leinart and Young yet based on just the passing stats? Since passing is what he will have to do majority of the time in the NFL anyways.

thunderkyss
04-06-2006, 10:42 AM
Ever thought the reason Vy has better stats is because Texas focused the offense around him. He was pretty much all they had. USC had to share the ball around many other talented athletes.:rolleyes:
And Vince still won the national championship, beating the reigning national champions. This should really say a lot about Vince Young.


Now, why haven't I seen a comparison between Leinart and Young yet based on just the passing stats? Since passing is what he will have to do majority of the time in the NFL anyways.
I've done it before, and Vince beats him.
1) Fact- Vince didn't play 4 full quarters.... Vince sat after he blew out the opposing D.
2) Matt had more attempts than Vince
3) Vince had a higher effeciency rating.
4) extrapolate Vince's passing yards by multiplying Vince's YPA by the extra number of attempts Matt had, and Vince beats him..... by 200/300 yards if I remember right..

But no one wants to hear that....... that kind of stuff gets swept under the rug...."of Course Vince had better passing stats..... it was a simplified offense".... or something similar.

So........ Vince is a better runner than the best RB in the draft...... Vince is a better passer than the best QB in the draft.........

MikeMc
04-06-2006, 10:43 AM
No one mentions the fact that VY started 7 of 12 games as a RS Frosh...so his stats are a bit fattened by that, Smith only played two seasons.

My biggest concerns about VY are not his strengths, but his weaknesses:

His mechanics need a lot of improving. Shows a low release point and, for the most part, shot-puts the ball as a passer. A better runner than passer at this point. Does not show a good comprehension of reading defenses and making progression reads. Is extremely raw as pocket passer and will need a lot of developmental tutelage in that area in the NFL. Most of his experience has been as a shotgun quarterback in a "read-option" system. Still lacks ideal decision-making skills. Shows adequate-to-good, but not great arm strength. Tries to force things when they are not available. Must learn to better protect the football. Takes too many chances when protection is breaking down and throws too many passes up for grabs. Is impatient in the pocket. Frequently takes off too early and does not allow his receivers enough time to separate. There is also concern regarding his mental capacity due to his marginal score on the Wonderlic Test.


Sounds like too much of a project. Raw talent can only carry you so far. Hell Vick was a better QB and had the smarts & QB IQ to make it work in the NFL......the same is not said about VY.

KSig44
04-06-2006, 10:53 AM
The UT National Championship says more for the UT as a team than it does just for VY. Without that defense, they would have lost it easy.

Also, you disregard the previous two years with USC winning the NC. Sure UT beat them head to head, but I think it was more because of the defenses (a top 5 vs. a 50 something) than it was one player. VY's numbers made up for the lack of overall playmakers on offense that USC did have and Texas didn't.

gtexan02
04-06-2006, 10:58 AM
Career points is a stupid way to calculate the worth of a player. Why not look at the stats that go into a QB rating??
Smith: PASSING ATT 587 COMP 389 YRDS 5203 TD 47 INT 8
Smiths Rating:
Percent Completion: 66.27%
YPA: 8.86
TD/Int Ratio: 5.88
Rating: 115.2

Young: PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Percent Completion: 61.84%
YPA: 8.41
TD/Int Ratio: 1.57
Rating: 92.84

So if you look at it reasonably, as a passer, VY was SIGNIFICANTLY POORER than A. Smith. A Smith had higher Completion percentages, higher Yards Per Attempt, and a MUCH higher TD/INT ratio as well as QB RATING (calculated using http://www.brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html) And guess what? Because he played in the same style of offense as VY, his SUCKING in the NFL means VY will probably be EVEN WORSE. So whats the point of your argument again?

Frank_The_Tank
04-06-2006, 11:38 AM
If you had Reggie Bush with Cady, Ronnie, and Benson he might be the #4 Rb taken. And you are crazy about Vince, a guy like that who put up numbers like he has would never slip to the second round. That is your butt talking because your mouth know better!

Frank_The_Tank
04-06-2006, 11:40 AM
Alex smith sucking???? Come on you have got to be joking! LOL The guy played for the 49ers. LOL You people are something else. Oh and playing in the conference he did is why his INT are so low. Put that guy in the BIG VII and it would have been much worse. You Bush Homers are so fun to debate with!

Errant Hothy
04-06-2006, 11:48 AM
If you had Reggie Bush with Cady, Ronnie, and Benson he might be the #4 Rb taken. And you are crazy about Vince, a guy like that who put up numbers like he has would never slip to the second round. That is your butt talking because your mouth know better!

I think you are referiing to me, and if you are, please read the whole post and don't zero on on a small group of words and take them out of context.

I'll do this agin, slowly for you:

1. Your premise is since VY's numbers were SO much better then Smith's that should justify taking him at the #1 spot also.

2. My response was that last years QB class sucked (overall) and that means that Alex Smith may have been one of the lowest rated QBs to go #1 in several years. This opinion was echoed by several people who get paid to do this.

3. I further stated that If VY's numbers were closer to Smith's he would not be a consideration for the #1 spot and he might fall to the second round. But that is not the case, but then again it was a hypothetical.

4. You also need to conisder the fact that VY had much, much better talent to play with.

And a new point for you, VY played against several teams, espically Ds, equally sucky as those Alex Smith faced.

You understand now?

gtexan02
04-06-2006, 12:16 PM
If you had Reggie Bush with Cady, Ronnie, and Benson he might be the #4 Rb taken. And you are crazy about Vince, a guy like that who put up numbers like he has would never slip to the second round. That is your butt talking because your mouth know better!

Ok, well using YOUR logic, lets just look at that:

Ronnie Brown Career Totals
Games Played 48
RUSHING ATT 513 YRDS 2835 LOSS 128 NET 2707 TD 28 AVG 5.28
Receiving NO 58 YDS 668 TD 2 AVG 11.5
CAREER TOTAL TD 30 POINTS 180

Cadillac Williams Career Totals
Games Played 44
RUSHING ATT 741 YRDS 4066 LOSS 235 NET 3831 TD 45 AVG 5.17
Receiving NO 45 YDS 342 TD 1 AVG 7.6
CAREER TOTAL TD 46 POINTS 276

Cedric Benson Career Totals
Games Played 49
RUSHING ATT 1112 YRDS 5723 LOSS 183 NET 5540 TD 64 AVG 4.98
Receiving NO 69 YDS 621 TD 3 AVG 9
CAREER TOTAL TD 67 POINTS 402

Reggie Bush Career Totals
Games Played 39
RUSHING ATT 433 YRDS 3312 LOSS 143 NET 3169 TD 25 AVG 7.32
Receiving NO 95 YDS 1301 TD 13 AVG 13.69474
CAREER TOTAL TD 38 POINTS 228

So lets compare important points here:

Yards per carry: R Bush (7.32) > R Brown (5.28) > C Williams (5.17) > C Benson (4.98)

Receiving Yards Per Catch: R Bush (13.69) > R Brown (11.5) > C Benson (9) > C Williams (7.6)

Touchdowns Per Rushing Attempt: C Williams (16.46 carries) > R Bush (17.32 carries) > C Benson (17.375 carries) > R Brown (18.3 carries)

Touchdowns Per Receiving Catch: R Bush (7.3 catches) > C Benson (23 catches) > R Brown (29 catches) > C Williams (45 catches)

Overall touches Per Touchdown Scored: R Bush (13.89) > C Williams (17.08 touches) > C Benson (17.63) > R Brown (19.033 touches)

So every 14 times Bush touches the ball, he scored, whereas it took the others nearly 3 extra touches every time. And all the rest of the stuff, plus this isn't even considering all purpose (return) yards, so how in the world do you get R Bush would be the 4th back taken??

PS: Reggie Scored this often EVEN THOUGH all the Goal line carries went to Len Dale White (52 Rushing TDs)

gtexan02
04-06-2006, 12:20 PM
Oh and by the way BigDave, that site you are referencing all this stuff from may nto even be accurate. It said Cedric Benson scored 64 Rushing Touchdowns, but ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=120228) claims he only scored 52. What Gives??? What is this sight?