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RickDenver
04-05-2006, 06:13 PM
Who is his agent, and how likely is he to sign. I would hate to see the C. Bensen thing happen to us.

LORK 88
04-05-2006, 06:14 PM
Thankfully, all we need to know is that its NOT the Poston brothers or Rosenhaus!! :redtowel:

wags
04-05-2006, 06:16 PM
As the number 1 pick he will probably agree to a contract before draft day. :twocents:

MorKnolle
04-05-2006, 06:19 PM
Who is his agent, and how likely is he to sign. I would hate to see the C. Bensen thing happen to us.

Joel Segal, don't know a whole lot about him but he has a decent number of players in the league and I think he has a couple other big-time draft prospects this year too (I seem to recall he also has Santonio Holmes among others). I don't anticipate any Cedric Benson-like problems, I'm sure they'll be negotiating his contract long before he is officially made our pick. Since we have the 1st overall pick, we can negotiate terms and even sign him to a contract before the draft, so once they make the final decision that he is our guy then I'm sure they'll get into contract negotiations and sign him ASAP, maybe even before the draft. I doubt his contract negotiations will last until training camp like Benson and some others.

hollywood_texan
04-05-2006, 06:21 PM
As the number 1 pick he will probably agree to a contract before draft day. :twocents:

That is the intention of the Front Office if they plan to select him.

Actually, that is there plan if they are the #1 pick regardless of the player.

I suspect the amount will be outrageous due to all the hype. So be prepared,it is going to cost us.

LORK 88
04-05-2006, 06:23 PM
Joel Segal, don't know a whole lot about him but he has a decent number of players in the league and I think he has a couple other big-time draft prospects this year too (I seem to recall he also has Santonio Holmes among others). I don't anticipate any Cedric Benson-like problems, I'm sure they'll be negotiating his contract long before he is officially made our pick. Since we have the 1st overall pick, we can negotiate terms and even sign him to a contract before the draft, so once they make the final decision that he is our guy then I'm sure they'll get into contract negotiations and sign him ASAP, maybe even before the draft. I doubt his contract negotiations will last until training camp like Benson and some others.

The problem with those contracts is the Alex Smith took such a long time to sign, so people under him didnt wanna sign because their contracts are based on how much he gets. Hence, why Benson and Brown took so long to sign, if Alex Smith got more or less than they intended, they'd feel screwed over so they played it safe to hold out afew days in camp. If Bush signs sooner than Smith did, you wont see as many holdouts as last year.

aj.
04-05-2006, 06:40 PM
http://www.nflpa.org/Agents/agentProfile.asp?ID=19585

I would put him in the category of very signable based on what I've seen from him and the Texans history of signing early 1's.

jacquescas
04-05-2006, 06:41 PM
i suspect them to open contract negotiations with both players and basically have a contract finalized but not signed just in case they need to trade the pick. they cover all their bases this way.

PapaL
04-05-2006, 06:50 PM
Its pretty much slotted. Isnt like a 10% raise of the previous years slot? QB's taken #1 always get more then any other position taken in that slot, so look up what Smith got last year and thats a good ballpark as to what Bush will get.

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 06:50 PM
i suspect them to open contract negotiations with both players and basically have a contract finalized but not signed just in case they need to trade the pick. they cover all their bases this way.
They won't begin contract negotiations with Vince Young.

texanfan2002114
04-05-2006, 06:51 PM
i suspect them to open contract negotiations with both players and basically have a contract finalized but not signed just in case they need to trade the pick. they cover all their bases this way.


According to the chronicle after the USC pro day when it was annouced that Reggie Bush, his agent and someone in charge of marketing for him will meet with Bob McNair and Dan Ferens (he is in charge of negotiations) on thursday. It will also be a time to see the what the Texans might be offering and see what Reggie is looking for.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3766127.html

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 06:51 PM
After we see his going rate of some odd 60 mil over 5 years with 25-30 mil up front we will probably be looking for a way to trade our pick. I do not see him asking for less than Alex Smith did last year because he is rate way higher than Smith was!


"The 49rs made history Monday by signing Quarterback Alex Smith. Smith became the highest paid rookie to the National Football League (NFL) earning $24 million guaranteed. The newest 49er will be paid $49.5 million (ESPN estimate) for a six year contract, with a potential of earning $51 million (Associated Press Estimate). "

http://www.bestsyndication.com/2005/Dan-WILSON/sports/072605-Alex-Smith-49ers.htm

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 06:53 PM
After we see his going rate of some odd 60 mil over 5 years with 25-30 mil up front we will probably be looking for a way to trade our pick. I do not see him asking for less than Alex Smith did last year because he is rate way higher than Smith was!
I don't think the price will make the Texans trade the pick. If they want Bush, which appears they do, they will pay him. There are ways to do so without breaking the bank all at once.

texanfan2002114
04-05-2006, 06:59 PM
I don't think the price will make the Texans trade the pick. If they want Bush, which appears they do, they will pay him. There are ways to do so without breaking the bank all at once.


I agree with you!! Mr McNair isn't afraid to shell out the money.

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 07:04 PM
Looking at Alex Smith this past year, you have to stop and think about paying that huge amount, plus we are alreading forking over some 6 mil a year to D.Davis

aj.
04-05-2006, 07:12 PM
Davis is not making 6 million per year. His contract was 5 years 22 million and this will be his last year as a Texan because of a hefty jump in base in '07. His roster bonuses are manageable this year (one has already been paid) and his signing bonus proration is only 1 million per year.

PapaL
04-05-2006, 07:14 PM
Its the cost of having the #1 pick. Live with it or trade down. In NFL terms, its not that much when your talking about a potential superstar. Think of how much money we threw away with Stevens, Walker, Boselli, etc...

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 07:23 PM
Seems risky for a guy who will never carry more than 17 carries a game!
17 carries x 16 games if healthy 272 carries 25 mil signing bonus thats 91,911.76 a carry the first year LOL not counting base salary! Lets Say 4 catches a game 4x16 plus 17x16 rushing 21 total plays 21x16 thats 336 plays 25 mil sign bonus that is 74,404.76 a play. Holy crap!

hollywood_texan
04-05-2006, 07:25 PM
I don't think the price will make the Texans trade the pick. If they want Bush, which appears they do, they will pay him. There are ways to do so without breaking the bank all at once.

McNair can make it work fiscally speaking, but is it worth it?

And how do you manage the cap with David Carr, Andre Johnson, and Dominick Davis? Take Davis out of the picture and it will still be difficult. It seems to me that Andre Johnson is going to want max money if a rookie RB is getting all that dough and he has paid his dues.

What makes it tougher is that we haven't even fielded a winning season yet or won three games in a row.

Erratic Assassin
04-05-2006, 07:34 PM
Its the cost of having the #1 pick. Live with it or trade down.

One more reason to trade down.

1. Don't tie up as much money in one player.
2. Pick up an extra pick
3. Finally fill one of our needs (upgrading OL and DE from horrible to great should be higher priorities than upgrading our RB from good to great)

Seņor Stan
04-05-2006, 07:41 PM
Seems risky for a guy who will never carry more than 17 carries a game!
17 carries x 16 games if healthy 272 carries 25 mil signing bonus thats 91,911.76 a carry the first year LOL not counting base salary! Lets Say 4 catches a game 4x16 plus 17x16 rushing 21 total plays 21x16 thats 336 plays 25 mil sign bonus that is 74,404.76 a play. Holy crap!


Yeah! Lets draft Mario Williams instead. He's the next Julius Peppers, right? Lets see Peppers has 197 career tackles so far, so thats an average of almost 50 a year.

If Williams equals Peppers' performance (not a given by any stretch) then he should get about 50 tackles next year. Lets see, 25,000,000 divided by 50...

OMG!!! 500,000 per tackle. Stop the presses! Pull a Vikings! Don't draft anybody! Do the Texans know this?!?!?

Call Casserly!!!111!!

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 07:44 PM
Ronnie Brown got 20 million up front 34 over 5 years, and he was not even the #1 pick or rated nearly as high as the media has Bush rated. I wonder what we will do.

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 07:55 PM
Stan you are the man. Your numbers are all fiction though brother!


Julius Peppers signed a 7-year contract with the Carolina Panthers in July 2002. He received a signing bonus of $9.1 million in 2002 and $4.05 million in 2003. His first-year base salary will be $3 million, but will drop to $350,000 in 2003. In the following five years, the base salary will rise by $250,000 per year. His contract includes escalator clauses worth $11 million if Peppers is chosen to participate in the Pro Bowl in each of the seven years. Other incentive clauses raise the total value of the contract to about $50 million over the seven years, with the possibility of as much as $62 million if all incentive and escalator clauses are met.

http://www.unc.edu/courses/2005fall/econ/006e/003/panthers/peppers.html

so thats 9 Million up front / 50 tackles that is 180,000 a play just of base salary not counting the pass break ups and forced passes he has caused.

Plus Peppers has reworked his contractgave up 3.5 million a year, to help the team get under the cap!
http://kffl.com/player/239/nfl

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 07:58 PM
look why post things that are not facts! Look the numbers up before yo post or you make yourself look like you are letting you emotions get the best of you. Show me factual data, and prove your points, make this a viable debate.

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 08:04 PM
McNair can make it work fiscally speaking, but is it worth it?

And how do you manage the cap with David Carr, Andre Johnson, and Dominick Davis? Take Davis out of the picture and it will still be difficult. It seems to me that Andre Johnson is going to want max money if a rookie RB is getting all that dough and he has paid his dues.

What makes it tougher is that we haven't even fielded a winning season yet or won three games in a row.
At the end of the day, is it worth drafting anyone? There are risks in drafts, signing free agents, etc. However, the potential windfall of national recognition makes it worth it. The potential of having one of the most potent offenses in the league makes it worth it. The appeal of someone like Reggie Bush being the face of the Texans franchise makes it worth it.

Entertaining games, playing to win (not to keep it close), and ultimately winning seasons will make it worth it.

Seņor Stan
04-05-2006, 08:16 PM
Stan you are the man. Your numbers are all fiction though brother!


Julius Peppers signed a 7-year contract with the Carolina Panthers in July 2002. He received a signing bonus of $9.1 million in 2002 and $4.05 million in 2003. His first-year base salary will be $3 million, but will drop to $350,000 in 2003. In the following five years, the base salary will rise by $250,000 per year. His contract includes escalator clauses worth $11 million if Peppers is chosen to participate in the Pro Bowl in each of the seven years. Other incentive clauses raise the total value of the contract to about $50 million over the seven years, with the possibility of as much as $62 million if all incentive and escalator clauses are met.


http://www.unc.edu/courses/2005fall/econ/006e/003/panthers/peppers.html

so thats 9 Million up front / 50 tackles that is 180,000 a play just of base salary not counting the pass break ups and forced passes he has caused.


Plus Peppers has reworked his contractgave up 3.5 million a year, to help the team get under the cap!
http://kffl.com/player/239/nfl


Originally Posted by BigDave350
Seems risky for a guy who will never carry more than 17 carries a game!
17 carries x 16 games if healthy 272 carries 25 mil signing bonus thats 91,911.76 a carry the first year LOL not counting base salary! Lets Say 4 catches a game 4x16 plus 17x16 rushing 21 total plays 21x16 thats 336 plays 25 mil sign bonus that is 74,404.76 a play. Holy crap!

I was using the same 25 million number that YOU threw out there to figure Bush's cost per carry. If Mario was the first overall pick, he would get the same money as Bush.

Jeez, I guess I need to start using the :sarcasm: smilie.

You know, its not funny if you have to explain it.

Seņor Stan
04-05-2006, 08:17 PM
look why post things that are not facts! Look the numbers up before yo post or you make yourself look like you are letting you emotions get the best of you. Show me factual data, and prove your points, make this a viable debate.

You mean like Leaf being drafted before Manning?

MorKnolle
04-05-2006, 08:18 PM
They won't begin contract negotiations with Vince Young.

I'm sure they will make some kind of casual inquiry into the ballpark figure that Vince and his agent will be looking for, but I think the most serious negotiations will definitely be done with just Bush.

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 08:21 PM
I'm sure they will make some kind of casual inquiry into the ballpark figure that Vince and his agent will be looking for, but I think the most serious negotiations will definitely be done with just Bush.
Possibly, but I think the Texans hosting Vince on Friday is more for show and out of a sense of obligation than anything else. :twocents:

MorKnolle
04-05-2006, 08:28 PM
Possibly, but I think the Texans hosting Vince on Friday is more for show and out of a sense of obligation than anything else. :twocents:

I agree for the most part, but I think they will get some idea the kind of money Vince is looking for in case Bush is wanting like $60 million and we are given a huge deal to trade down a couple spots and draft Vince Young, and it is just the responsible thing to do to find out all the info available and cover all your bases and keep your options open.

Runner
04-05-2006, 08:30 PM
I agree for the most part, but I think they will get some idea the kind of money Vince is looking for in case Bush is wanting like $60 million and we are given a huge deal to trade down a couple spots and draft Vince Young, and it is just the responsible thing to do to find out all the info available and cover all your bases and keep your options open.

That's assuming Young is their second choice...

Mike Kerns
04-05-2006, 08:34 PM
If we trade down, it will probaly be to address needs. Even with a trade down, I still don't think we take Vince.

Frank_The_Tank
04-05-2006, 08:42 PM
If you honestly think that they are not going to be asking financial numbers with both Bush and Young you are crazy. If Reggie is asking for that Magic 25 mil signing bonus number and some odd 60 over 5, I base that off of #1 pay these past three years, and Vince is asking for a number around 6 to 10, you keep praying that we will take Bush. Both of these guys are a gamble, and both have starting players ahead of them. Business being business, they are going to go with Young and save the money, and take the extra #1 pick next year. Vince is arguably just as good as Bush and given that Kubiak has got the job done with less than magic at the Running Back Position. He would be a fool to waste that kind of money on a guy who will never contribute more than 22 total plays a game. D. Davis is solid, we have dual threats at reciever, and a awsome TE. The only position that is still a big Question mark is the QB! I think that if Bush ask 12 mil up front 35 over 5 then we take him. If not trade down and grab Vince.

BradK10
04-05-2006, 08:51 PM
If you honestly think that they are not going to be asking financial numbers with both Bush and Young you are crazy. If Reggie is asking for that Magic 25 mil signing bonus number and some odd 60 over 5, I base that off of #1 pay these past three years, and Vince is asking for a number around 6 to 10, you keep praying that we will take Bush. Both of these guys are a gamble, and both have starting players ahead of them. Business being business, they are going to go with Young and save the money, and take the extra #1 pick next year. Vince is arguably just as good as Bush and given that Kubiak has got the job done with less than magic at the Running Back Position. He would be a fool to waste that kind of money on a guy who will never contribute more than 22 total plays a game. D. Davis is solid, we have dual threats at reciever, and a awsome TE. The only position that is still a big Question mark is the QB! I think that if Bush ask 12 mil up front 35 over 5 then we take him. If not trade down and grab Vince.

Just another Vince mancrusher trying to force his points on everyone else.

It's not just total "touches" that show what Bush can and will do for this team. Just his presence will force defenses to gameplan for him and around him. For those other 45 plays a game he won't touch the ball, he'll be moving around in the offensive backfield, motioning to the slot, etc., causing the defense to adjust and opening up oppurtunities for others.

DRIFTAWAY
04-05-2006, 08:57 PM
how do rookie contracts work in the nfl?

mexican_texan
04-05-2006, 09:01 PM
If giving RB his :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: will mean losing DD and possibly AJ, I am now officially on the trade down camp. Maybe to the Jets, but no farther than the Raiders.

Mario Williams
Vince Young
AJ Hawk
D'Brick
Michael Huff
And of course, the 2006 offensive rookie of the year.
Any of those guys can really help us.

Hervoyel
04-05-2006, 09:07 PM
look why post things that are not facts! Look the numbers up before yo post or you make yourself look like you are letting you emotions get the best of you. Show me factual data, and prove your points, make this a viable debate.


You mean things like where somebody says Reggie Bush will never carry the ball more than 17 times per game? As if they have any idea how he'll be used by the team is drafting him? You mean things that are pure speculation right?

Yeah why post that garbage. You can't have a viable debate when someone is just making up stuff and pulling numbers out of thin air.

Texas
04-05-2006, 09:16 PM
Our DE is fine.

MorKnolle
04-05-2006, 09:52 PM
That's assuming Young is their second choice...

True, I personally would be talking to Mario Williams next after Bush and I hope they do bring him in and discuss such things with him in case they decide to draft him at #1 or do trade down a couple spots.

texanfan2100
04-05-2006, 09:54 PM
If you honestly think that they are not going to be asking financial numbers with both Bush and Young you are crazy. If Reggie is asking for that Magic 25 mil signing bonus number and some odd 60 over 5, I base that off of #1 pay these past three years, and Vince is asking for a number around 6 to 10, you keep praying that we will take Bush. Both of these guys are a gamble, and both have starting players ahead of them. Business being business, they are going to go with Young and save the money, and take the extra #1 pick next year. Vince is arguably just as good as Bush and given that Kubiak has got the job done with less than magic at the Running Back Position. He would be a fool to waste that kind of money on a guy who will never contribute more than 22 total plays a game. D. Davis is solid, we have dual threats at reciever, and a awsome TE. The only position that is still a big Question mark is the QB! I think that if Bush ask 12 mil up front 35 over 5 then we take him. If not trade down and grab Vince.


So, your reasoning for not selecting Bush is because we should not give that much money to someone when we already have a player with money tied up at that position. Instead, you want the Texans to draft Vince Young, who plays a position that the Texans already have money tied up in. :ok:

The decison on whether or not to draft Young has already been made. It was made the minute they gave Carr the extention.

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 10:28 PM
If giving RB his $$$$ will mean losing DD and possibly AJ, I am now officially on the trade down camp. Maybe to the Jets, but no farther than the Raiders.
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! :crazy:

Where do you get that DD and AJ will be leaving if we draft Reggie Bush!? Deals will be restructured before anyone leaves. AJ's not going anywhere. DD may leave eventually - but it's a little early to be worrying about that right now...

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 10:29 PM
SThe decison on whether or not to draft Young has already been made. It was made the minute they gave Carr the extention.
I agree... But, oh lord... here we go...

mexican_texan
04-05-2006, 10:32 PM
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! :crazy:

Where do you get that DD and AJ will be leaving if we draft Reggie Bush!? Deals will be restructured before anyone leaves. AJ's not going anywhere. DD may leave eventually - but it's a little early to be worrying about that right now...
its a sarcastic responce to many reasons for trading down. GTO is brilliant.

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 10:35 PM
its a sarcastic responce to many reasons for trading down. GTO is brilliant.
Sarcasm? Well if that's the case... my bad :rolleyes:

texplayer2
04-05-2006, 10:40 PM
Seems risky for a guy who will never carry more than 17 carries a game!
17 carries x 16 games if healthy 272 carries 25 mil signing bonus thats 91,911.76 a carry the first year LOL not counting base salary! Lets Say 4 catches a game 4x16 plus 17x16 rushing 21 total plays 21x16 thats 336 plays 25 mil sign bonus that is 74,404.76 a play. Holy crap!

Hey, you forgot the post season?:) how much have we paid the last three backs per TD?:crying: JUST MY OPINION but, I believe we will get our moneys worth out of this stat.why do we worry about carries? do they count on the scoreboard?

LoneStarState
04-05-2006, 10:45 PM
Oh.... I beg the differ my friend. If you are really from the "LoneStarState" you'd be rooting for the best talent in the draft also. All of these hillbillies acting like they know that RB is the best to draft....seriously, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Anybody not going for the hometown kid should be shot, cuz you are not a true Texan fan. Either way I still love the Texan's but come on at least ya'll could root for the Madison, Texas hero.:twocents:
:thud:

texplayer2
04-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Anybody not going for the hometown kid should be shot, cuz you are not a true Texan fan. Either way I still love the Texan's but come on at least ya'll could root for the Madison, Texas hero.:twocents:

I think you meant to say" not true TEXAS fans.":rolleyes: Where is Madison High?

BradK10
04-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Oh.... I beg the differ my friend. If you are really from the "LoneStarState" you'd be rooting for the best talent in the draft also. All of these hillbillies acting like they know that RB is the best to draft....seriously, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Anybody not going for the hometown kid should be shot, cuz you are not a true Texan fan. Either way I still love the Texan's but come on at least ya'll could root for the Madison, Texas hero.:twocents:

Madison, Texas? Never heard of it.

tulexan
04-05-2006, 11:00 PM
If you honestly think that they are not going to be asking financial numbers with both Bush and Young you are crazy. If Reggie is asking for that Magic 25 mil signing bonus number and some odd 60 over 5, I base that off of #1 pay these past three years, and Vince is asking for a number around 6 to 10, you keep praying that we will take Bush. Both of these guys are a gamble, and both have starting players ahead of them. Business being business, they are going to go with Young and save the money, and take the extra #1 pick next year. Vince is arguably just as good as Bush and given that Kubiak has got the job done with less than magic at the Running Back Position. He would be a fool to waste that kind of money on a guy who will never contribute more than 22 total plays a game. D. Davis is solid, we have dual threats at reciever, and a awsome TE. The only position that is still a big Question mark is the QB! I think that if Bush ask 12 mil up front 35 over 5 then we take him. If not trade down and grab Vince.


There is no way that Vince is going to play for a $6-10 million signing bonus. If anything, Vince will ask for even more money because he knows that he has the team by the balls with all of the public pressure and he is a QB. Vince came out to get paid. I'm sure that he would love to play for Houston, but if Houston had the 20th pick and the Jets had the first, he still would have come out after the Rose Bowl.

Koolbrz
04-05-2006, 11:16 PM
Seems risky for a guy who will never carry more than 17 carries a game!
17 carries x 16 games if healthy 272 carries 25 mil signing bonus thats 91,911.76 a carry the first year LOL not counting base salary! Lets Say 4 catches a game 4x16 plus 17x16 rushing 21 total plays 21x16 thats 336 plays 25 mil sign bonus that is 74,404.76 a play. Holy crap!


336 plays a season is not bad at all. Considering he has the potential to take it to the house at any given moment on any given play. Texans have dished out more money to a combination of other guys that didn't even produce one solid season.

Koolbrz
04-05-2006, 11:34 PM
Oh.... I beg the differ my friend. If you are really from the "LoneStarState" you'd be rooting for the best talent in the draft also. All of these hillbillies acting like they know that RB is the best to draft....seriously, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Anybody not going for the hometown kid should be shot, cuz you are not a true Texan fan. Either way I still love the Texan's but come on at least ya'll could root for the Madison, Texas hero.:twocents:


Texans are not going to draft VY because he is the hometown hero or because he comes from Madison High or because if we don't draft him i'm gonna give up my season tickets attitude. Sorry dude, I am a Die Hard Texans Fan, and IMO VY is a great player but if you want the best talent on the board with the first pick you must go with Bush. Too many ways you can use him. No way Vince will be in the slot or going in motion during a play. That is not even the tip of the iceberg as to how they can use him. I honestly don't think Vince is coming here. He would be better off in Tenn. where they need a QB. They must know something, after what they did to Mcnair. VY is more than likely in there sights.