PDA

View Full Version : Time to give Charley a little credit...


David's Busted Carr
04-04-2006, 03:47 PM
We have all been quick to bash him (and rightfully so on many occassions), but this offseason I think he has done a FANTASTIC job in free agency. I don't know, maybe it's Kubiak behind the madness, but whoever it is deserves some praise!

And this Moulds deal is just a plain STEAL if we managed to sell them on our 5th round pick. I still like it even it was our 4th.

Now if we just carries this momentum into the draft! He really can't screw up the Reggie pick, unless he does something stupid and doesn't draft Reggie. But I think that's pretty much a done deal too!

Now I'm really getting excited for '06!!! :redtowel:

stevo3883
04-04-2006, 03:49 PM
well im inclined to think its a combo of kubiak and mcnair realizing cass' philosophy sucked.

they know the fans want to win, and not another 5 year plan.

chuckm
04-04-2006, 03:51 PM
I've heard (and read) from numerous sources that Casserly got the players that the coaches wanted ..... has he screwed up? Yes? Does he deserve a pat on the back for this offseason? Yes? ... :twocents:

thunderkyss
04-04-2006, 04:32 PM
heck, if that's all you gotta do, then I want his job........

Tex-fan0604
04-04-2006, 04:52 PM
Charley doesn't deserve any credit because it was all Dan R. and Kubiak.

PapaL
04-04-2006, 04:57 PM
Charley doesn't deserve any credit because it was all Dan R. and Kubiak.

Reeves has not been with the team for awhile now.

Sportsfan
04-04-2006, 05:00 PM
I for one have never bashed him, i like some of what he's done and dislike some of what he's done.
As for this offseason, i say the jury is still out. Wait until we get a few games into the season and then grade the offseason moves they made. :twocents:

hollywood_texan
04-04-2006, 05:07 PM
We have all been quick to bash him (and rightfully so on many occassions), but this offseason I think he has done a FANTASTIC job in free agency. I don't know, maybe it's Kubiak behind the madness, but whoever it is deserves some praise!

And this Moulds deal is just a plain STEAL if we managed to sell them on our 5th round pick. I still like it even it was our 4th.

Now if we just carries this momentum into the draft! He really can't screw up the Reggie pick, unless he does something stupid and doesn't draft Reggie. But I think that's pretty much a done deal too!

Now I'm really getting excited for '06!!! :redtowel:

Totally disagree with your steal idea. It is manageable with our 5th round pick and 4th would be very hard to swallow.

Keyshawn Johnson got cut and it looks like the Panthers picked him up for the same money we are going to pay Moulds. Both got a $5 million signing bonus. The Panthers didn't lose a draft pick.

But we needed the guy and we overpay a little with a 5th round pick. A 4th round pick and Buffalo got a very good deal considering they were going to cut the guy anyway.

At some point, I would like the Front Office to show some hand and walk on a deal like this and make the team cut the player. That would help in future negotiations, but we seem to drive the market up instead of paying the market. Remember Buchanon? I know the players are totally different, but there wasn't that much interest in him from other teams except for some appearance that we perceived.

Other teams don't trade for players before they get cut but we paid a premium with 5th round pick (hopefully) to land him and go for wins immediately.

Let's understand, Moulds could be on a significant decline in his career. That's why there were no other teams interested and they just would have waited for him to get cut and see if they could land a steal.

Moulds needs to maintain his same stats of about 80 rec and 800 yds and this will work just fine with the 5th round premium to guarantee him to come to Houston.

keyfro
04-04-2006, 05:08 PM
i for one have been one of the ones to burn casserly for last year's offseason and for the way the season went...but i will say this...this offseason has opened my eyes...i beleive the majority of the problem now falls on capers and i know beleive it was capers who wouldn't allow casserly to get the players we needed...i'm happy that we're starting to look like a competitive team that is not simply waiting for the draft...i hope casserly stays with us now...but i would not be surprised if he left to take the job for the NFL senior VP in new york

el toro
04-04-2006, 05:18 PM
Totally disagree with your steal idea. It is manageable with our 5th round pick and 4th would be very hard to swallow.

Keyshawn Johnson got cut and it looks like the Panthers picked him up for the same money we are going to pay Moulds. Both got a $5 million signing bonus. The Panthers didn't lose a draft pick.

But we needed the guy and we overpay a little with a 5th round pick. A 4th round pick and Buffalo got a very good deal considering they were going to cut the guy anyway.

At some point, I would like the Front Office to show some hand and walk on a deal like this and make the team cut the player. That would help in future negotiations, but we seem to drive the market up instead of paying the market. Remember Buchanon? I know the players are totally different, but there wasn't that much interest in him from other teams except for some appearance that we perceived.

Other teams don't trade for players before they get cut but we paid a premium with 5th round pick (hopefully) to land him and go for wins immediately.

Let's understand, Moulds could be on a significant decline in his career. That's why there were no other teams interested and they just would have waited for him to get cut and see if they could land a steal.

Moulds needs to maintain his same stats of about 80 rec and 800 yds and this will work just fine with the 5th round premium to guarantee him to come to Houston.


Being willing to part with the pick limits your competition for the player. If Moulds was cut by the Bills does he still sign with the Texans? I don't see that as a given.

As for Casserly, if all he is doing is getting the players the coach wants, that is important. Sure, he's not providing the grand football vision but it's not any less vital.

hollywood_texan
04-04-2006, 05:21 PM
el toro, agreed.

I just don't think paying for a 4th round pick to squeeze out any competition is worth it. I really don't like the 5th round pick trade, but you don't get everything in life.

Sometimes you have to play hard ball and be able to walk away.

What we do know also impacts future negotiations.

PapaL
04-04-2006, 05:42 PM
Its hard enough to get quality guys to come here. Giving up a 4/5th pick isnt a big deal. Were we not willing to give up a 3rd for Buerlson (sp?)? I say no big deal as long as we can draft or develop one of our young guys to be a #2 by the time Moulds retires/leaves.

TexanBacker93
04-04-2006, 06:00 PM
I don't consider a 5th round pick a premium pick. I realize talent is still available in the 5th rounds, but you're talking about the final 100 players that will get drafted. It's not a 1st day pick, which is what I consider premium. It's not the 1st pick in the 4th round, which also has some good value. This was a necessary move for the Texans. There was no guarantee that he would sign here if Buffalo released him.

As a franchise that has yet to produce a winning team the Texans are not going to be in the driver's seats in these situations. Once the team starts winning and building the franchise they can force the situations by waiting until the player gets released because they will have the knowledge that the players will want to come here. The fact that we've been able to add a few probowl players this year tells me that we may be heading towards that point.

el toro
04-04-2006, 06:04 PM
I don't consider a 5th round pick a premium pick. I realize talent is still available in the 5th rounds, but you're talking about the final 100 players that will get drafted. It's not a 1st day pick, which is what I consider premium. It's not the 1st pick in the 4th round, which also has some good value. This was a necessary move for the Texans. There was no guarantee that he would sign here if Buffalo released him.

As a franchise that has yet to produce a winning team the Texans are not going to be in the driver's seats in these situations. Once the team starts winning and building the franchise they can force the situations by waiting until the player gets released because they will have the knowledge that the players will want to come here. The fact that we've been able to add a few probowl players this year tells me that we may be heading towards that point.

Another thing to consider is that the team has two 3rd round picks. To me, turning a 5th rounder into a proven vet #2 WR is worth it on it's own. When you already have five picks in the top 100, I don't see it as a huge expense. You're already slated to end up with a good bit of incoming talent with those top five picks.

This team turned their 5th and 7th rounders into #2 and #3 WRs in the pros, not just prospects who might be good...someday.

hollywood_texan
04-04-2006, 06:05 PM
I don't consider a 5th round pick a premium pick. I realize talent is still available in the 5th rounds, but you're talking about the final 100 players that will get drafted. It's not a 1st day pick, which is what I consider premium. It's not the 1st pick in the 4th round, which also has some good value. This was a necessary move for the Texans. There was no guarantee that he would sign here if Buffalo released him.

As a franchise that has yet to produce a winning team the Texans are not going to be in the driver's seats in these situations. Once the team starts winning and building the franchise they can force the situations by waiting until the player gets released because they will have the knowledge that the players will want to come here. The fact that we've been able to add a few probowl players this year tells me that we may be heading towards that point.

Again, I totally disagree. I need to do the research on this, but I have a hunch that teams that win over and over and get to the playoffs, they have a lot higher percentage of their 5th round picks starting on their teams than the league average.

You are using the same rationale that Casserly used for the Buchanon trade.

I believe Domanick Davis was a 5th round pick.

Ummmmmm...

We overpaid a little but it can work.

SESupergenius
04-04-2006, 06:08 PM
All I heard since Capers firing was how these were the players Capers wanted and Casserly only got them for him, it was the coach that asked for these players. Hence Capers gets fired. Now Casserly is going to get credit for all the new acquisitions? No sir. Kubiak will get credit for these acquisitions just Capers got credited for his.

The Dude Abides
04-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Again, I totally disagree. I need to do the research on this, but I have a hunch that teams that win over and over and get to the playoffs, they have a lot higher percentage of their 5th round picks starting on their teams than the league average.

You are using the same rationale that Casserly used for the Buchanon trade.

I believe Domanick Davis was a 5th round pick.

Ummmmmm...

We overpaid a little but it can work.

Davis was the 4th pick in the 4th round.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6437

TreWardTxn
04-04-2006, 06:15 PM
Kubiak and Reeves are making all the evaluations and personnel decisions. Cass is making all the phone calls. So he deserves credit for knowing how to work his Blackberry and having some command of the English language...

hollywood_texan
04-04-2006, 06:16 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

My point still stands though.

HJam72
04-04-2006, 06:17 PM
All I heard since Capers firing was how these were the players Capers wanted and Casserly only got them for him, it was the coach that asked for these players. Hence Capers gets fired. Now Casserly is going to get credit for all the new acquisitions? No sir. Kubiak will get credit for these acquisitions just Capers got credited for his.

Bingo. Casserly shouldn't get too much credit for this, but he should be absolved from most of the problems in Caper's regime. I know that some will say that the GM should be more responsible for what goes on, but hey the system is working so why rock the boat?

el toro
04-04-2006, 06:21 PM
Kubiak and Reeves are making all the evaluations and personnel decisions. Cass is making all the phone calls. So he deserves credit for knowing how to work his Blackberry and having some command of the English language...


Well, there is that tiny matter of actually being able to get the player to agree to sign, as well as managing the cap and what not.

thunderkyss
04-04-2006, 06:29 PM
Totally disagree with your steal idea. It is manageable with our 5th round pick and 4th would be very hard to swallow.

Keyshawn Johnson got cut and it looks like the Panthers picked him up for the same money we are going to pay Moulds. Both got a $5 million signing bonus. The Panthers didn't lose a draft pick.

Moulds needs to maintain his same stats of about 80 rec and 800 yds and this will work just fine with the 5th round premium to guarantee him to come to Houston.

You do know the panthers were in the playoffs don't you??

once again, I've got a bad memory, but I think they were in the NFC championship game.

Keyshawn is one of the few who is playing for greatness, and a SB ring.

I also believe, that if we couldn't get a trade done, we flat out wouldn't have got Moulds........ I'd rather use that 5th, on someone who will (most likely) benefit this team, even if it's only for one year, as opposed to someone who may never....


We'll definitely have to keep an eye on the talent that is available in the fifth, to see if we break even, loose out, or come out ahead.

hollywood_texan
04-04-2006, 06:40 PM
Look, Buffalo didn't force Moulds to come down to Houston.

He redid his contract on his own to play in Houston.

He could have done nothing and went out on the open market.

He seems something in Houston, unless he just doing Houston and Buffalo a big favor?

Kaiser Toro
04-04-2006, 07:03 PM
Terrific signing for the Texans for need, buzz and value. Keyshawn is one year older than Moulds and is getting the same signing bonus and 1.25m more a year in base. Statistically it is pretty even in my opinion.

Ferens has done a good job to date this year. Cass' work, in my opinion, is how his scouting department does with the draft.

But make no mistake about it, we do not pull in these guys at the price we have, without Kubiak and Sherman.

SESupergenius
04-04-2006, 07:08 PM
Also keep in mind that we havn't won anything yet, this is all on paper.

Erratic Assassin
04-04-2006, 07:34 PM
Totally disagree with your steal idea.

Let's understand, Moulds could be on a significant decline in his career. That's why there were no other teams interested

Exactly.

The reason we got a "steal" isn't because Casserly is a master negotiator, it's because Buffalo had no better options. If they did get a better offer from another team and past on it, they would have been stupid not to take it.

NederlandTexan
04-04-2006, 08:03 PM
I agree completely with the thread title, if he was criticized before, he should be applauded now.

aj.
04-04-2006, 08:33 PM
Well, there is that tiny matter of actually being able to get the player to agree to sign, as well as managing the cap and what not.

Dan Ferens is the VP of negotiations and the cap guy. Casserly - as Sr. VP of Ops - is the head talent guy, is part of the negotiating team, and is the primary team spokesperson on these matters - at least for a few more months. They (Ferens, Casserly, Kubiak, whomever was involved) did a great job on this one.

I can't prove it but I sense that McNair has them under might tighter financial reins this year - not so much on the total cost of free agency/draft, but on the amount spent on any given player... aka, less of a blank check as in recent years to repeat such feats as Babin, Buchanon, Hollings, Walker, Wade, et al.

TexanFan881
04-04-2006, 08:34 PM
This was Casserly one year ago: :tomato: :sos:
This is him today: :disco: :party:

That's a big difference and he's done a lot better this offseason so far.

LBC_Justin
04-04-2006, 08:54 PM
el toro, agreed.

I just don't think paying for a 4th round pick to squeeze out any competition is worth it. I really don't like the 5th round pick trade, but you don't get everything in life.

Sometimes you have to play hard ball and be able to walk away.

What we do know also impacts future negotiations.Most of the experts are saying we got a GREAT deal.

You being greedy wanting to hold on to the pick. (I don't blame you, I want to have all the picks we can.) but lets call a spade a spade. In this case we got a good deal.

OzzO
04-04-2006, 09:59 PM
Well, if a decrease in Casserly avatars is any indication - he must be doing better. No sights on the forehead or mass rioting with signs.... just a straight jacket and taped mouth. :cool:

TreWardTxn
04-04-2006, 11:12 PM
Well, there is that tiny matter of actually being able to get the player to agree to sign, as well as managing the cap and what not.

The players are coming to play for Kubiak, not Casserly. All they need to know is that he ain't gonna fudge their money...

aggieNzona
04-05-2006, 12:14 AM
[QUOTE=David's Busted Carr]We have all been quick to bash him (and rightfully so on many occassions), but this offseason I think he has done a FANTASTIC job in free agency. I don't know, maybe it's Kubiak behind the madness, but whoever it is deserves some praise!

Last year it seemed plainful obvious to most that this team did not address most needs and this year they did? What is the difference? If Charley is only a yes man then Kubs gets all the credit and Capers the blame. If he is making decesions what the hell happened last year? It is such a stark contrast I think there has to be another dynamic at work. Who or what I don't know but there has been a very different approach. Either he was shackled by McNair or Capers had McNairs ear or Caper conviced Charley that he had a plan (we he obviously didn't). I find it all very interesting.
My gut tells me it is all Kubiak running the show and Charley is a lame duck but if that is not the case then something else was up????:confused:

rittenhouserobz
04-05-2006, 06:30 AM
I think Cass does an average job as GM. He has some good and some bad picks. This is the first trade I can remember the Texans making that appears to be worth it. I remember the Pbuc trade and the Titans draft day trade. Can somebody show me where Casserley's trades were an advantage for the Texans?

BTW, I am stoked about getting Moulds. We finally have a legitimate #2. For years, I kept trying to logically convince myself that Bradford was a #2 or Gaffney was an emerging #2 to get through the season (I want Gaff to do well also).

Now I will purchase the NFL Sunday ticket with anticipation and glee for the coming year for the first time in a couple years. :redtowel: :gotexans1

Runner
04-05-2006, 06:34 AM
[quote=David's Busted Carr]We have all been quick to bash him (and rightfully so on many occassions), but this offseason I think he has done a FANTASTIC job in free agency. I don't know, maybe it's Kubiak behind the madness, but whoever it is deserves some praise!

Last year it seemed plainful obvious to most that this team did not address most needs and this year they did? What is the difference? If Charley is only a yes man then Kubs gets all the credit and Capers the blame. If he is making decesions what the hell happened last year? It is such a stark contrast I think there has to be another dynamic at work. Who or what I don't know but there has been a very different approach. Either he was shackled by McNair or Capers had McNairs ear or Caper conviced Charley that he had a plan (we he obviously didn't). I find it all very interesting.
My gut tells me it is all Kubiak running the show and Charley is a lame duck but if that is not the case then something else was up????:confused:

I'd say it is not black and white, but in the gray area - it is the real world after all. I think the dynamics of how everyone works/worked together probably had a big impact too. Casserly and Capers just didn't see eye-to-eye on some things and that made the whole process difficult and led to poor results.