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View Full Version : Johnson, Mathis, and Bush split out wide


Rovator
04-03-2006, 09:21 PM
If we pick him up, this would have to be the fastest group in the league, and maybe one of the fastest trios ever. Speed wise, is there any other group that compares? Maybe Moss, Randle El, and Portis, but wow if we can add Moulds as a sure-handed receiver that knows how to get open, that is a very dangerous group.

281
04-03-2006, 09:22 PM
In terms of raw speed, you may be right.

Samer
04-03-2006, 09:24 PM
Of course thats fast, maybe a little too fast, they could possibly over run the ball sometimes...

mexican_texan
04-03-2006, 09:28 PM
If they were the recievers for a Hail Mary play, would the fabric of existence tear?

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-03-2006, 09:32 PM
You can be as fast as you want, but if you cannot catch the ball when it is there what is the purpose? I would rather see a 10-15 yard slant and 20-30 yards after the catch. than waste a down throwing it 50 yards downfield and not catch the ball.

I would rather have the trio of the most reliable 3 WR running TIGHT routes so Carr can hopefully be like most good QBs and throw to an area where that WR is suppose to be. That is what a Peyton Manning, Favre does. Favre most of all. He goes through his reads and based on a certain time that WR is to be there making his cuts and he just throws there. He was great when he had WR that were disciplined route runners.

WHo you ask... AJ, Moulds, and Walter in the slot. Those three take the LBs and safeties out of position and bush catches it out of the backfield and goes up the sideline for a 60 yard TD... That is how you get to the playoffs and beyond.

:redtowel: :redtowel: :texflag: :wherewill

Texans_Chick
04-03-2006, 09:36 PM
You can be as fast as you want, but if you cannot catch the ball when it is there what is the purpose? I would rather see a 10-15 yard slant and 20-30 yards after the catch. than waste a down throwing it 50 yards downfield and not catch the ball.

I would rather have the trio of the most reliable 3 WR running TIGHT routes so Carr can hopefully be like most good QBs and throw to an area where that WR is suppose to be. That is what a Peyton Manning, Favre does. Favre most of all. He goes through his reads and based on a certain time that WR is to be there making his cuts and he just throws there. He was great when he had WR that were disciplined route runners.

WHo you ask... AJ, Moulds, and Walter in the slot. Those three take the LBs and safeties out of position and bush catches it out of the backfield and goes up the sideline for a 60 yard TD... That is how you get to the playoffs and beyond.




Just curious, and not intending to be combative, are you related to or friends with in any way to Walter? I know someone asked you that before, and I missed the answer.

And if you are related in any way, can you help me improve my PSLs? :redtowel:

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-03-2006, 09:46 PM
Just curious, and not intending to be combative, are you related to or friends with in any way to Walter? I know someone asked you that before, and I missed the answer.

And if you are related in any way, can you help me improve my PSLs? :redtowel:

Actually I work in IL where he went to high school and coworkers had son's that played on the team and I saw several games and followed his career out of high school, into and through college and now through the draft and Current NFL position.

Not related though, just a fan.

If I ever get down there one day, I wish I had some PSLs for that great stadium. We have some crazy PSLs up here in our new Chicago stadium as well. Some outrageous. I know friends that had 12 seats in the old stadium and to have the same seats in the new stadium would have cost them 100,000 to 125,000 dollars to keep them. THAT SUCKED. Those seats were in thier family for 30+ years.

el toro
04-03-2006, 09:52 PM
I'm more excited by the prospect of AJ and Moulds out wide, with Putzier at TE and Bush lining up in the slot. With DD in the backfield that is quite a set of firepower.

Can't wait for the season to start.

dalemurphy
04-03-2006, 09:57 PM
If the pass protection gets straightened out, we will have the opportunity to create all kinds of matchup nightmares on offense.

Not only can we use that combo to create problems. We can also go tall: AJ, Moulds, Walters, Putzier...

Or, let's get real cute. Joppru and Putzier at TE with AJ... in the backfield we could have Cook and Bush. In that lineup we can run strong from the eye formation if they play us 8 in the box. Or, we can throw over top, using Bush in motion- he'd certainly be guarded by a safety or LB, which would leave both TEs in favorable matchups as well.

Man, the possibilities are endless!... IF WE GET PASS PROTECTION

TexansLucky13
04-03-2006, 09:57 PM
I'm more excited by the prospect of AJ and Moulds out wide, with Putzier at TE and Bush lining up in the slot. With DD in the backfield that is quite a set of firepower.

Can't wait for the season to start.

Absolutely. Defensive Coordinators will by the end of the season say to their teams "*shrug*, well... they sure as heck aren't the '05 Texans.... maybe next time we will be better prepared."

:yahoo:

kiwitexansfan
04-03-2006, 09:58 PM
You can be as fast as you want, but if you cannot catch the ball when it is there what is the purpose? I would rather see a 10-15 yard slant and 20-30 yards after the catch. than waste a down throwing it 50 yards downfield and not catch the ball.

I would rather have the trio of the most reliable 3 WR running TIGHT routes so Carr can hopefully be like most good QBs and throw to an area where that WR is suppose to be. That is what a Peyton Manning, Favre does. Favre most of all. He goes through his reads and based on a certain time that WR is to be there making his cuts and he just throws there. He was great when he had WR that were disciplined route runners.

WHo you ask... AJ, Moulds, and Walter in the slot. Those three take the LBs and safeties out of position and bush catches it out of the backfield and goes up the sideline for a 60 yard TD... That is how you get to the playoffs and beyond.

:redtowel: :redtowel: :texflag: :wherewill

Favre goes through his reads and based on a certain time that WR is to be there making his cuts and he just throws there straight into the hands of the opposition for game killing picks.... 29 of them last year....

I really don't think we put Favre in the disciplined passer group with the likes of a Peyton Manning.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-03-2006, 10:07 PM
Favre goes through his reads and based on a certain time that WR is to be there making his cuts and he just throws there straight into the hands of the opposition for game killing picks.... 29 of them last year....

I really don't think we put Favre in the disciplined passer group with the likes of a Peyton Manning.


Let me slow it down for you...

I said Favre is a spot thrower. And even with all the weapons Peyton has NO SUPERBOWL!!! Favre has been there twice and one 1. And that was with players like Edge, Harrison, Stokley, etc.

I know I have had to watch him in game situations at least two times a year in person when they play the Bears. I can say I am an EXPERT on Favre. All I know is my *SS will stop hurting now that he is going to retire.

The reason he has so many interceptions is because his young undisciplined route running WRs (especially when BABY Walker went down) were not making tigh routes when he was throwing there, that is where they are suppose to be. I put him in the same league as Peyton because of how good a QB he is/was.

I hate Favre as a Bears fan, but love him and respect him as a Football fan. Anyone who really knows the game should.:yahoo:

Runner
04-03-2006, 10:11 PM
You can be as fast as you want, but if you cannot catch the ball when it is there what is the purpose? I would rather see a 10-15 yard slant and 20-30 yards after the catch. than waste a down throwing it 50 yards downfield and not catch the ball.

I would rather have the trio of the most reliable 3 WR running TIGHT routes so Carr can hopefully be like most good QBs and throw to an area where that WR is suppose to be...

I agree - another deep threat, a pass catching TE, and Bush coming out of the backfield - all of these require defensive attention. Dre will finally be able to use his speed and power to break one tackle on the slant route and be gone, among other options.

Ibar_Harry
04-03-2006, 10:13 PM
Let me slow it down for you...

I said Favre is a spot thrower. And even with all the weapons Peyton has NO SUPERBOWL!!! Favre has been there twice and one 1. And that was with players like Edge, Harrison, Stokley, etc.

I know I have had to watch him in game situations at least two times a year in person when they play the Bears. I can say I am an EXPERT on Favre. All I know is my *SS will stop hurting now that he is going to retire.

The reason he has so many interceptions is because his young undisciplined route running WRs (especially when BABY Walker went down) were not making tigh routes when he was throwing there, that is where they are suppose to be. I put him in the same league as Peyton because of how good a QB he is/was.

I hate Favre as a Bears fan, but love him and respect him as a Football fan. Anyone who really knows the game should.:yahoo:

A number of us worried last year when they announced that the Texans were going to employ more timing routes. Now we find out that they perhaps jetesoned the play book before the start of the season. Was the reason why they knew our receivers as a whole couldn't run routes well. Also the one who supposidly could, Gaffny, was out with injuries at that point.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-03-2006, 10:14 PM
I agree - another deep threat, a pass catching TE, and Bush coming out of the backfield - all of these require defensive attention. Dre will finally be able to use his speed and power to break one tackle on the slant route and be gone, among other options.


Now that is FOOTBALL!!!!

Big B Texan Fan
04-04-2006, 12:20 AM
I agree, the possibilities are endless.

My only question is, can we snap directly to those guys as to keep the ball out of Carr's hands? That's the only way I see those guys getting the ball on a frequent basis.

:rolleyes:

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 12:27 AM
I agree, the possibilities are endless.

My only question is, can we snap directly to those guys as to keep the ball out of Carr's hands? That's the only way I see those guys getting the ball on a frequent basis.

:rolleyes:

It's the rantings of all ignorant football fans. When the team struggles the ignorant fan always blames the QB. When the team is successful the QB usually receives too much credit. If you threw Peyton Manning behind our center last year with Pendry calling the plays and Bradford running the routes, we would be in position to draft Reggie Bush this year.

Carr didn't play well last year. However, the team's failures were not primarily due to his. Give him a chance. He had improved markedly each of his first three seasons. If he improves from his season 3 performance, we'll have one of the better QBs in the league on our team.

swtbound07
04-04-2006, 12:54 AM
It's the rantings of all ignorant football fans. When the team struggles the ignorant fan always blames the QB. When the team is successful the QB usually receives too much credit. If you threw Peyton Manning behind our center last year with Pendry calling the plays and Bradford running the routes, we would be in position to draft Reggie Bush this year.
Carr didn't play well last year. However, the team's failures were not primarily due to his. Give him a chance. He had improved markedly each of his first three seasons. If he improves from his season 3 performance, we'll have one of the better QBs in the league on our team.

An often repeated mantra of the Carr lover.....I dont believe this is true. If you put peyton manning in a texans uniform, he is still peyton mannning. His recievers dont make him, he makes his recievers. He will make smart football plays, which David Carr doesnt do. At what point do david carr's failures belong to David Carr?

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 01:20 AM
An often repeated mantra of the Carr lover.....I dont believe this is true. If you put peyton manning in a texans uniform, he is still peyton mannning. His recievers dont make him, he makes his recievers. He will make smart football plays, which David Carr doesnt do. At what point do david carr's failures belong to David Carr?


As I said, Carr played poorly last year. His failures are his. However, the team's failures aren't all his and that's what you don't understand. Of course Peyton is a better Qb than Carr. However, he wouldn't have succeeded in last year's environment either. That's the point. Anyone that understands football and has an open mind could watch the offense last year and realize that the problems go way beyond the QB play. Other than John Elway in his prime, I can't think of a QB that could've looked even average in that environment. Look what happened to Peyton against Pittsburgh in the playoff game this year. He got hit a few times and some assignments were missed and he went nuts. He blamed his OLine for the struggles. Interesting, huh!

mancunian
04-04-2006, 01:28 AM
It's the rantings of all ignorant football fans. When the team struggles the ignorant fan always blames the QB. When the team is successful the QB usually receives too much credit. If you threw Peyton Manning behind our center last year with Pendry calling the plays and Bradford running the routes, we would be in position to draft Reggie Bush this year.

Carr didn't play well last year. However, the team's failures were not primarily due to his. Give him a chance. He had improved markedly each of his first three seasons. If he improves from his season 3 performance, we'll have one of the better QBs in the league on our team.

took the words right out of my mouth.....my other thought was if line up with AJ, Mathis, Reggie and say Moulds isn't that inviting Carr to be sacked......?

rittenhouserobz
04-04-2006, 04:26 AM
Aj, Bush, and Mathis will all be 20 yards downfield within 2 seconds. That means the OL needs to block for 3 seconds. Is that too much for them. If we had any kind of a pass blocking OL, then Carr would find somebody open for sure.

CoachJim
04-04-2006, 05:42 AM
... Or, we can throw over top, using Bush in motion- he'd certainly be guarded by a safety or LB, which would leave both TEs in favorable matchups as well.

OMG if we get Bush I dare, DARE a def. coord. to put a LB on him 1 on 1...:drool:

BigBull17
04-04-2006, 06:28 AM
An often repeated mantra of the Carr lover.....I dont believe this is true. If you put peyton manning in a texans uniform, he is still peyton mannning. His recievers dont make him, he makes his recievers. He will make smart football plays, which David Carr doesnt do. At what point do david carr's failures belong to David Carr?

Yeah, then how do you explain the fact that when he gets hit his game goes to ****? Once your blitz starts to get to him he folds like a cheap hooker. His playoff preformances over the last couple of years proves that your only as good as your protection.

Maddict5
04-04-2006, 07:00 AM
An often repeated mantra of the Carr lover.....I dont believe this is true. If you put peyton manning in a texans uniform, he is still peyton mannning. His recievers dont make him, he makes his recievers. He will make smart football plays, which David Carr doesnt do. At what point do david carr's failures belong to David Carr?

i disagree somewhat(not about carr but manning)- you see when hes put under pressure like v the steelers he looks very ordinary, as every qb does when put under pressure...i couldnt name 1 'elite' qb who doesnt have a very good line also..pats,steelers etc.

if you want more proof look at culpepper 2 years ago he was throwing 40 td-partly because of moss but also he had decent protection. last year his protection wasnt good and moss was gone and he looked like the worst qb in the league before he went down..just shows how important a good o-line is to an offence


edit: ^didnt mean to copy you bigbull...didnt read this page before posting

TheOgre
04-04-2006, 07:18 AM
I would think Faulk, Holt, Bruce and Hakim in 1999 might be faster as a whole. I'm not sure.

the wonger need food
04-04-2006, 09:22 AM
Give him a chance. He had improved markedly each of his first three seasons. If he improves from his season 3 performance, we'll have one of the better QBs in the league on our team.

Some more revisionist history here. He was horrible during the 2nd half of 2004.

el toro
04-04-2006, 09:22 AM
OMG if we get Bush I dare, DARE a def. coord. to put a LB on him 1 on 1...:drool:

That's going to be the beauty of having such a plethora of talent at the offensive skill positions. Mismatches are a threat to happen on any down.

powerfuldragon
04-04-2006, 09:28 AM
3rd and 5 at our opponent's 35 yard line. Mathis, Moulds, AJ lined up at reciever, reggie bush in the backfield. What are we going to do?

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 09:49 AM
Some more revisionist history here. He was horrible during the 2nd half of 2004.


his season as a whole was solid. compare his numbers to the rest of the league. he was in the middle of the pack of starting QBs.

TEXANS84
04-04-2006, 10:23 AM
I talked to Mathis on Sunday down around Minuite Maid Park...he's been practicing out of the slot. He also thinks Bush is faster than him.

Runner
04-04-2006, 11:30 AM
I talked to Mathis on Sunday down around Minuite Maid Park...he's been practicing out of the slot. He also thinks Bush is faster than him.

Should be a few good races once camp starts.

Nice info.

rmartin65
04-04-2006, 12:56 PM
I talked to Mathis on Sunday down around Minuite Maid Park...he's been practicing out of the slot. He also thinks Bush is faster than him.
Thats awsome that you talked to Mathis. And wow, Bush must be fast if Mathis thinks Bush is faster.

TheOgre
04-04-2006, 01:51 PM
Imagine the stats that Moon could have put up with Bush in the backfield and AJ, Moulds, Walters and Mathis playing WR. Almost makes you want to go back to the Run-And-Shoot days...ALMOST.

Ibar_Harry
04-04-2006, 01:59 PM
Imagine the stats that Moon could have put up with Bush in the backfield and AJ, Moulds, Walters and Mathis playing WR. Almost makes you want to go back to the Run-And-Shoot days...ALMOST.

Everyone is assuming what Kubiak will do. He has stated he will run when it is advantageous and he will pass when it is adventageous. I don't think everyone should think we are automatically a 60-40 run pass ratio. I have this funny feeling based on what we have done with the WR core that you are going to see far more fireworks than you thought.

The receiver core is not one that you would normally associate with a running team, although we can put two big WR's and/or a TE on the field and block the heck out of someone. We are evolving into a highly unpridicable potent offense. Again, my gut feeling is we are in for a real treat and no lead will be too large against us.

el toro
04-04-2006, 02:26 PM
Everyone is assuming what Kubiak will do. He has stated he will run when it is advantageous and he will pass when it is adventageous. I don't think everyone should think we are automatically a 60-40 run pass ratio. I have this funny feeling based on what we have done with the WR core that you are going to see far more fireworks than you thought.

The receiver core is not one that you would normally associate with a running team, although we can put two big WR's and/or a TE on the field and block the heck out of someone. We are evolving into a highly unpridicable potent offense. Again, my gut feeling is we are in for a real treat and no lead will be too large against us.

There is the real potential for potent passing and running games. As for Carr, either you believe that he's a decent QB with a strong arm who's received some of the worst pass protection a QB could receive or you believe he "sucks." It's the former based on what I've seen. I anticipate some "Hey, Carr doesn't suck" threads by Game 3 next season.

U4ikrob
04-04-2006, 02:35 PM
Some more revisionist history here. He was horrible during the 2nd half of 2004.

Like Dale said - David was avg in the second half of 04 - not horrible.

What was horrible was the coaching and O-line play during the second half of that season. The staff decided to change blocking schemes and some players in mid season. It screwed up all continuity the team had and they did little to nothing to protect David the rest of the season to the point the FREAKING Owner of the team came down and told the staff they had better do something about protecting DC. Thats not some beat writer - This is the FREAKING Owner of the team. The staff bungled that message so badly they ignored him and instead went 2-14. Well we all know what happened then as I said in TC last year - They were too ignorant to listen and now the staff is gone. Its pretty obvious to everyone else in the league that the O-line was the MAJOR problem with the team along with lack of dept at almost every position. But they still managed to go 7-9 on the year and make the best season the Texans had thus far.

Yet you and other Carr-haters still think DC was horrible and at fault for that?

:confused: - Dunno what team you were watching. I know that I was watching the Texans on Sundays and their patchwork excuse for an O-line go thru the motions every sunday. To try and blame that totally on the QB is like what DaleMurphy said- Thats just ignorance.

Honestly I cant wait for the team to see some success, for DC to put up decent numbers behind a real O-line and to shut a whole lot of trolls the f-up and end the debate.

Its nauseating to me how bad most of the last staff was and how poorly they handled everything from their practices, drills, work ethics, approach, Off/Def playcallling and the players they choose. From start to finish the staff made mistakes all over and the only saving grace was special teams play. For a pro-team thats had 4 years of playtime, drafts and offseasons - the results are allmost all on the coaching staff. To go from a 7-9 team to a 2-14 team because they swapped players and changed schemes is completely on the staff. Its more than a little obvious to most everyone around the league and most fans how bad the last staff was and how bad they did with the talent they had and gave away on a regular basis. They were inept and horrible at applying their coaching philosophies to the field - Esp in regard to how they dealt with the protecting the QB and that point almost cost them the health of their Star QB more than once.

stevo3883
04-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Like Dale said - David was avg in the second half of 04 - not horrible.

.

can't agree with that. he was decent to slightly above average the first half (think of where he ranked in stats, around the top 15- average) then the second ahlf he was passing for like 150 a game, and AJ's production dropped dramatically.

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 03:09 PM
can't agree with that. he was decent to slightly above average the first half (think of where he ranked in stats, around the top 15- average) then the second ahlf he was passing for like 150 a game, and AJ's production dropped dramatically.


Okay. you say he was slightly above average for half the season and he stunk for half the season. So, his stats for the year would be pretty bad, I guess?

David Carr 2004... 61.2% comp, 3550 yds, 7.6 yds per att. (that's very good, by the way) and he averaged less than 1 interception per game. He also rushed for 300 yards.

Those are above average stats for an entire season. He was playing at a probowl level for the first 7 games and then his play tailed off. He had a solid season with a bad oline and Corey Bradford as his #2 WR.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-04-2006, 03:15 PM
I is Official!!! Here is the projected lineup (not Oline)

QB CARR
RB DD
RB BUSH
TE Putzier
WR AJ
WR Moulds
WR Walter

DD and Bush will cycle out

Who do you cover...

Double AJ, you hit Moulds
Double Moulds, AJ says see ya
Cheat moulds and AJ with the safety and or LB, Hit Kevin over the middle
start respecting Walter, Putzier is there as well.

If all that fails, you line Putzier, Walter, Moulds on the same side and take their blockers inside and watch the pitch out to Bush and GO GREASE LIGHTNING!!!!

OHH THIS IS TOO FUN!!!

infantrycak
04-04-2006, 03:55 PM
can't agree with that. he was decent to slightly above average the first half (think of where he ranked in stats, around the top 15- average) then the second ahlf he was passing for like 150 a game, and AJ's production dropped dramatically.

Well, can't really agree with that. Thru the 1st half of the season Carr was averaging 270.3 ypg and on pace for 4330 yds. That would be heading for 5th and well above league average of 208 ypg and 3350 yds--i.e. better than slighly above average.