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baba ganoush
04-03-2006, 09:29 PM
is there still any reason to get ferguson after bushs workout???

TexanFan881
04-03-2006, 09:32 PM
When there's a special once in a decade player like Reggie Bush available, you don't pass up on him. We can solve our O-line problems in the later rounds of the draft.

TexansLucky13
04-03-2006, 09:32 PM
Uhm... D'Brick is only an option if there were a beneficial tradedown to a lower pick. Other than that, Kubiak will probably focus on Reggie Bush, with Vince Young as an option behind him.

When there's a special once in a decade player like Reggie Bush available, you don't pass up on him. We can solve our O-line problems in the later rounds of the draft.

Agreed.

D-ReK
04-03-2006, 09:33 PM
is there still any reason to get ferguson after bushs workout???

Without a trade down, no there is no reason to draft Ferguson...Even after a trade down, the only way we select Ferguson is if Williams is gone...

dalemurphy
04-03-2006, 10:29 PM
Without a trade down, no there is no reason to draft Ferguson...Even after a trade down, the only way we select Ferguson is if Williams is gone...


I was in favor of drafting Ferguson #1 until recently. I now realize that Bush is one of those rare players that only appear every 8 or 10 years. He is Tony Dorsett, Barry Sanders, Bo jackson, Herschel Walker. I don't think Ferguson is. Ferguson has the measurables but hasn't been the dominate player that demands the confidence required to draft someone #1. I'm still a fan of the trade down, but I'd want good value for it.

Also, with our zone blocking system and this year's draft, guys like Winston and Colledge will likely be available for us later in the draft. They would fit our system very well.

Bush is our man. I will hope that his achilles tendons, AC ligaments, and spinal cords are in excellent shape and will remain intact throughout his career. Oh yeah, I guess I should worry about that little tendon on the top of his big toe- that thing causes problems as well.

Samer
04-03-2006, 10:33 PM
With the way Bush worked out there, I can now see more teams wanting to get ahold of him, trading down is still a good possibility

tulexan
04-03-2006, 10:41 PM
I'm not convinced that D'Brick is much better than Winston Justice

dalemurphy
04-03-2006, 10:46 PM
Once again I have to tell ya'll that it's all about VY not Bush. Ya'll all over him after his Pro Day but yet ya'll were the same after VY's Pro Day also....whats the deal?! Look dudes we draftin' VY just get over it and suck it up.:challenge


Who was all over VY? I certainly wasn't. I like him. I think he has some intangibles that give me optimism that he could become a great player. However, he is a long, long ways away from being able to play QB in the NFL. That's why many pro scouts have him graded out as a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Believe me, if he was will/eager to move to WR, I'd definitely be interested in him in the first 15 picks of the draft.

bad
04-04-2006, 08:31 AM
Once again I have to tell ya'll that it's all about VY not Bush. Ya'll all over him after his Pro Day but yet ya'll were the same after VY's Pro Day also....whats the deal?! Look dudes we draftin' VY just get over it and suck it up.:challenge The topic is about D'Brickashaw Ferguson, not Vince Young. We won't we drafting Vince Young. You can want it with all your heart and soul, but it won't happen. You can throw his name into every thread on every message board in the whole wide world wide web, regardless of the original topic and it won't change the Texan's draft position.

April 29th should offer closure. I hope you accept it.

As for Ferguson, I think Winston Justice proved that there is more than one elite OT in the draft this year. Still think Ferguson goes top 4 or 5.

Runner
04-04-2006, 08:56 AM
As for Ferguson, I think Winston Justice proved that there is more than one elite OT in the draft this year. Still think Ferguson goes top 4 or 5.

I've always thought that if Ferguson's first name was "Joe" he wouldn't be elite in so many people's minds.

Bullpen Drew
04-04-2006, 08:59 AM
neither VY not D'Brick is coming here!

Texans Horror
04-04-2006, 09:39 AM
Forget Fergie. Draft Eric Winston and put him in as RT. Move Bump Wade to guard. Sack Pitts. Insert Wand. Then We will have

Wand -- Wade -- Flanagan -- Weigert -- Winston

All we need left is trade Flanagan for Woody from the Lions. Then we couldn't lose. We'd be all W's.

Runner
04-04-2006, 09:55 AM
Forget Fergie. Draft Eric Winston and put him in as RT. Move Bump Wade to guard. Sack Pitts. Insert Wand. Then We will have

Wand -- Wade -- Flanagan -- Weigert -- Winston

All we need left is trade Flanagan for Woody from the Lions. Then we couldn't lose. We'd be all W's.

Just move Weary to center.

swtbound07
04-04-2006, 10:10 AM
Who was all over VY? I certainly wasn't. I like him. I think he has some intangibles that give me optimism that he could become a great player. However, he is a long, long ways away from being able to play QB in the NFL. That's why many pro scouts have him graded out as a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Believe me, if he was will/eager to move to WR, I'd definitely be interested in him in the first 15 picks of the draft.


What??? Are you insane?? Show me ONE place where somebody has vince going in the late first/early second. One time. So you dont want to draft him as a quarterback, but you'd spend a HIGH FIRST ROUND pick on him as a wide reciever, a position he has never played? This post was ridiculous

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 10:14 AM
What??? Are you insane?? Show me ONE place where somebody has vince going in the late first/early second. One time. So you dont want to draft him as a quarterback, but you'd spend a HIGH FIRST ROUND pick on him as a wide reciever, a position he has never played? This post was ridiculous


You can go to dallasnews.com where Gosselin has him listed as the 3rd Qb... Check out some of the things Mike Mayock has said on the NFL channel. You can probably get that material on NFL.com.

Matt Jones had never played WR and was drafted in the first round as a WR. So I don't think that is a ridiculous idea. Young is an incredible athlete and playmaker. His agility, heighth, ball skills would all be things that would make him a special WR, IMO.

swtbound07
04-04-2006, 10:18 AM
You can go to dallasnews.com where Gosselin has him listed as the 3rd Qb... Check out some of the things Mike Mayock has said on the NFL channel. You can probably get that material on NFL.com.

Matt Jones had never played WR and was drafted in the first round as a WR. So I don't think that is a ridiculous idea. Young is an incredible athlete and playmaker. His agility, heighth, ball skills would all be things that would make him a special WR, IMO.


Not what i said...a lot of people have him interchangable as the #1-#3 qb, i've STILL Never seen him fall below 10 in any mock draft. show me any mock draft where vince has fallen into round 2. You cant......i doubt very seriouly you can find one where he has fallen below 15

nunusguy
04-04-2006, 10:19 AM
is there still any reason to get ferguson after bushs workout???
No, but after Winston Justice's workout, maybe you get Justice instead of
Ferguson if you're given a choice between those two.

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 10:24 AM
Not what i said...a lot of people have him interchangable as the #1-#3 qb, i've STILL Never seen him fall below 10 in any mock draft. show me any mock draft where vince has fallen into round 2. You cant......i doubt very seriouly you can find one where he has fallen below 15

I didn't say that Mock drafts had him going late in the first round or early in the second. I said that some scouts/experts had him rated as a late first to early second round player. There is a difference. The Mock draft is predicting what teams will do not where the player is rated. It is believed by many that Oakland will draft VY, not because he is the 7th best player on their boards, but because they think Oakland wants him.

So, if you want to check out Mayock's comments, feel free. Or check out Gosselin who has him rated as the #3 QB. There are others as well. However, I don't need to research that which I already know.

swtbound07
04-04-2006, 10:30 AM
I didn't say that Mock drafts had him going late in the first round or early in the second. I said that some scouts/experts had him rated as a late first to early second round player. There is a difference. The Mock draft is predicting what teams will do not where the player is rated. It is believed by many that Oakland will draft VY, not because he is the 7th best player on their boards, but because they think Oakland wants him.

So, if you want to check out Mayock's comments, feel free. Or check out Gosselin who has him rated as the #3 QB. There are others as well. However, I don't need to research that which I already know.


OKay, i'll try it again. Show me one draft where they have him graded as "a late first-second round player"

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 10:33 AM
OKay, i'll try it again. Show me one draft where they have him graded as "a late first-second round player"

I have a dial-up connection so I'm not going to try and download Mike Mayock's comments, but you're welcome to research it yourself if you'd like.

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 10:45 AM
OKay, i'll try it again. Show me one draft where they have him graded as "a late first-second round player"


Okay... I found this on sportsline.com

The following rankings are the opinion of GM Jr Scouting LLC based upon film review and industry knowledge.


TOP 10 QUARTERBACKS FOR THE 2006 NFL DRAFT
Player
1. Matt Leinart USC
2. Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
3. D.J. Shockley Georgia
4. Brodie Croyle Alabama
5. Brett Basanez Northwestern
6. Vince Young Texas
7. Charlie Whitehurst Clemson
8. Omar Jacobs Bowling Green
9. Kellen Clemons Oregon
10. Paul Pinegar Fresno State

swtbound07
04-04-2006, 10:46 AM
Okay... I found this on sportsline.com

The following rankings are the opinion of GM Jr Scouting LLC based upon film review and industry knowledge.


TOP 10 QUARTERBACKS FOR THE 2006 NFL DRAFT
Player
1. Matt Leinart USC
2. Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
3. D.J. Shockley Georgia
4. Brodie Croyle Alabama
5. Brett Basanez Northwestern
6. Vince Young Texas
7. Charlie Whitehurst Clemson
8. Omar Jacobs Bowling Green
9. Kellen Clemons Oregon
10. Paul Pinegar Fresno State


Okay maybe Im blind...where does this ranking of quarterbacks have round-grades on it?

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 11:24 AM
Okay maybe Im blind...where does this ranking of quarterbacks have round-grades on it?

Good point, perhaps their argument is that Brady Croyle will be going in the top 10 overall. If you recall, my point is that almost every single scout/expert has Bush rated significantly higher than Vince Young. Bush is almost exclusively rated as the #1 overall prospect. I gave you an example where Gosselin has Young as the #3 QB, I told you Mayock grades VY out as a late first, early second round pick and these guys rate Young as the #6 Qb in this draft. Your stubborness to ignore this point further proves mine... It's the UT homers that are the ones arguing for VYoung.

Here's my challenge to you... show me anyone without Texas or Big12 ties that has Vince Young rated ahead of Bush.

Mike Kerns
04-04-2006, 02:03 PM
Is this still a D'Brick thread ? If so, I was curious, have the Texans had/or planned any other private workouts besides Bush/Young ? I would just find it hard to believe we would consider trading down for a player that we haven't even worked out. Kubiak said himself that the 15 minute interviews at the combine weren't enough...:twocents:

stevo3883
04-04-2006, 02:17 PM
Here's my challenge to you... show me anyone without Texas or Big12 ties that has Vince Young rated ahead of Bush.


skip bayless and michael wilbon

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 06:50 PM
skip bayless and michael wilbon

they are columnists/ tv entertainers... they don't even have an NFL beat much less experience scout or could be considered a draft expert... but pretty good effort I must say. Of course, anytime there is a consensus on anything you could pretty much through Skip's name out there as an opposing voice... That is his schtick.

threetoedpete
04-04-2006, 07:20 PM
I've always thought that if Ferguson's first name was "Joe" he wouldn't be elite in so many people's minds.
Ah did you see the practices of the Senior bowl. I mean he didn't just whoop people. He punked them. Not some of the time....everytime. He is without question the finest left tackle prospect to come out since Pace. He is a lock. Which is more than I can say at this point about RB and VY. Both have warts. They both are superior athletes, ...but... they aren't locks. Not yet. Brick is. Whoever drafts him will be locked in at left tackle for ten years. And I bet long after the two pretty ones are out of the league he will be chugging along at a pro bowl level. We'll see gonna be fun.

threetoedpete
04-04-2006, 07:27 PM
Is this still a D'Brick thread ? If so, I was curious, have the Texans had/or planned any other private workouts besides Bush/Young ? I would just find it hard to believe we would consider trading down for a player that we haven't even worked out. Kubiak said himself that the 15 minute interviews at the combine weren't enough...:twocents:
I haven't seen anything. I heard weeks ago they would entertain offers for thwe one. McClain said the otherday that RB/VY would be in. I haven't heard any more about the offers. Which is why I'm 99% sure it's going to be Bush. Bush fits, VY does not. Super Mario I put in the Furgeson category, if we get extra picks, I'm down with him. Although, a lot of people see Peppers. I see Sean Gilbert. The guy scares me. No good reason, just a gut feeling.

MorKnolle
04-04-2006, 07:37 PM
Ah did you see the practices of the Senior bowl. I mean he didn't just whoop people. He punked them. Not some of the time....everytime. He is without question the finest left tackle prospect to come out since Pace. He is a lock. Which is more than I can say at this point about RB and VY. Both have warts. They both are superior athletes, ...but... they aren't locks. Not yet. Brick is. Whoever drafts him will be locked in at left tackle for ten years. And I bet long after the two pretty ones are out of the league he will be chugging along at a pro bowl level. We'll see gonna be fun.

What part of the Senior Bowl did you watch? He handled Mathia Kiwanuka pretty well but Darryl Tapp got his number a couple times during practice and someone else got right by him once during the game to nail the QB for a sack. He is not more of a lock to be a star than anyone else in this draft. He is a fine prospect and probably the best pure LT in this draft, but let's not get carried away.

I haven't seen anything. I heard weeks ago they would entertain offers for thwe one. McClain said the otherday that RB/VY would be in. I haven't heard any more about the offers. Which is why I'm 99% sure it's going to be Bush. Bush fits, VY does not. Super Mario I put in the Furgeson category, if we get extra picks, I'm down with him. Although, a lot of people see Peppers. I see Sean Gilbert. The guy scares me. No good reason, just a gut feeling.

As for Mario, he's as athletic as Peppers and he's bigger and stronger. He doesn't move quite as fluidly and at times it looks like he hasn't learned to fully use his size and athleticism yet, so right now Peppers is definitely the better player, but I think with good coaching Mario will be as good and likely even more dominant than Julius Peppers is.

BuffSoldier
04-04-2006, 11:11 PM
[QUOTE=MorKnolle]What part of the Senior Bowl did you watch? He handled Mathia Kiwanuka pretty well but Darryl Tapp got his number a couple times during practice and someone else got right by him once during the game to nail the QB for a sack. He is not more of a lock to be a star than anyone else in this draft. He is a fine prospect and probably the best pure LT in this draft, but let's not get carried away.
QUOTE]

Ferguson had 4 days of practice and a game, he dominated every person he faced, including Tapp, just because Tapp made an inside move to the QB after he had been handled for 4 seconds doenst count as him "getting his number". The sack was the only real mistake that I saw of Ferguson that hole week, that is more than I can say for Eric Winston.

Runner
04-04-2006, 11:39 PM
Ah did you see the practices of the Senior bowl. I mean he didn't just whoop people. He punked them. Not some of the time....everytime. He is without question the finest left tackle prospect to come out since Pace. He is a lock. Which is more than I can say at this point about RB and VY. Both have warts. They both are superior athletes, ...but... they aren't locks. Not yet. Brick is. Whoever drafts him will be locked in at left tackle for ten years. And I bet long after the two pretty ones are out of the league he will be chugging along at a pro bowl level. We'll see gonna be fun.

I don't think he is a "lock" to be a pro bowler. Is he "likely" to be a pro bowler? Probably. Are there high odds he has a very good career? Yes.

People get all excited about upside before the draft, but weaknesses tend to get exposed in NFL competition and everyone wonders what happened. What happened was downside was ignored, just like some of the comments about Ferguson getting beat in the Senior Bowl in this thread are being ignored. Those beats "don't count" for whatever reason. If a person doesn't do an honest evaluation, the conclusion is suspect.

"The best since Orlando Pace" - does that imply he is as good as Pace? Almost as good? He's not even close. Pace received Heisman Trophy votes as a tackle. I think people have forgotten how utterly dominant he was in college. The stat they tracked most publicly for him his senior year was pancakes - not blocks, not sacks given up, but how many times he laid the d-lineman on his back. Nice.

ToroFan
04-05-2006, 01:17 AM
they are columnists/ tv entertainers... they don't even have an NFL beat much less experience scout or could be considered a draft expert... but pretty good effort I must say. Of course, anytime there is a consensus on anything you could pretty much through Skip's name out there as an opposing voice... That is his schtick.

Scott Linehan, Coach of the Rams


"I don't have that dilemma of having to decide who to take with the No. 1 pick. But if I was sitting there with the first pick, it would be hard to pass up a guy who can affect the game in so many ways the way Vince Young can," says new St. Louis Rams head coach Scott Linehan, who developed Daunte Culpepper into an MVP-caliber quarterback in 2004 as offensive coordinator with the Minnesota Vikings.

"As good as Reggie Bush is, (Young) does a lot of things that make him special."

"This is a playmaker's league," Linehan says. "If you start with the No. 1 criteria, scoring points and affecting the game, there isn't a guy at that position who can affect a game more than Vince Young can."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-03-01-debate-young_x.htm

As far as Mayock, he said after VY's workout, it was a three way horserace between VY, Leinart and Cutler as the best quarterback, pick your flavor.

For the Mayock, comment click on the link below and click on the Mayock Video. I wouldn't recommend it for dial-up users, but if you have the time, go fori it.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9329030

I think you may have been confusing the Mayock comment about VY with Alex Smith. I read that on the web somewhere, but I couldn't find it. He has said that Alex Smith would be the fourth qb in this draft and might have slipped into the second round.

With all that being said, I think most commentators say that Reggie Bush is going to be the number 1 pick. I also think with the acquisition of Moulds instead of a younger less proven receiver (i.e. Givens), they are building to win now rather than build for the future. That would seem to indicate that Bush is the choice, since franchise running backs make an impact earlier than franchise quarterbacks on the whole (exceptions of course being Big Ben and Dan Marino).

I am not sure if Kubiak has his mind made up, but I think he will be certain after the Bush/VY visits at the end of the week.

****
And as for Ferguson, the original topic of convo, I think he will be a solid tackle, but I would not put him in the Orlando Pace/Walter Jones category. I would definitely not take him with the number one overall. I think the highest I would take him would probably be 3 or 4 overall. And I am still not sure that Winston Justice won't end up being the better tackle.

el toro
04-05-2006, 09:38 AM
I recall seeing a mock that had Young described as a QB with plenty of athleticism who would be a development project in the pros and would be going in the 2nd or 3rd round if not for the Rose Bowl hype. Maybe a bit extreme, but not any more than the burnt orange orgy in here.

edo783
04-05-2006, 11:14 AM
I recall seeing a mock that had Young described as a QB with plenty of athleticism who would be a development project in the pros and would be going in the 2nd or 3rd round if not for the Rose Bowl hype. Maybe a bit extreme, but not any more than the burnt orange orgy in here.

It was a columnist on SI.com that wrote that I think.