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corvallis149
04-03-2006, 06:33 PM
How can Reggie Bush help our team?

When we have a Runningback that rushed for 1000+ yards every season, and when we have one of the NFLs best returnman?

I don't get it. If he will only play wideout is he worth No.1 pick?

And even if he develop into one of the best runningback in NFL, he will not lead our team to playoffs. Let's take a look at some of the greatest running backs who have ever played the game and how they did when it comes to the Super Bowls which, after all, is why they play the games. O.J. Simpson never even played in one. Eric Dickerson didn't win one. Negative for Barry Sanders too. Emmitt Smith won a bunch but he also had Troy Aikman. Walter Payton didn't win a Super Bowl until the Bears had one of the best defenses in league history in 1985. Gale Sayers, the guy who Bush is most often compared to, never even played in a playoff game! How about some of the most productive runners from recent years. Curtis Martin? LaDainian Tomlinson? No and No. The bottom line is that even some of the best to ever play the game did not take their team to the Promised Land. (I copied this information from nfldraftcountdown.com)

How will bush help our team?

El Amigo Invisible
04-03-2006, 06:35 PM
What about DD? What about Mathis? I do not know how he helps.If we needed a running back, I would be all about drafting Bush.

tiger06
04-03-2006, 06:40 PM
He can line up in the backfield, out wide, or in the slot. He'll take attention off guys like AJ and DD. He'll keep DD fresher throughout games and add a much needed playmaker to our offense.

El Amigo Invisible
04-03-2006, 06:42 PM
Will he be the QB when Carr is on his butt? Reggie would be a great addition to any team . Why do we need him?

jacquescas
04-03-2006, 06:44 PM
we have a running back DD who has proven in 3 season he cannot be durable and play in all our games.

Splitting time with Bush will help both DD with his durabilty and Bush. Bush is versatile enough to line up all over the field so playing them in the same backfield is not nearly the problem one would expect.

True a fantastic running back will not win a championship, but the same can be said about any position. look at Dan Marino's career. Payton Manning is heading that way.

Football is the ultimate team sport. More players on the field at any time than any of the major sports and larger rosters. Winning a championship is not equated to getting 1 good player. Basketball is different 1 player is 20% of a team.

MasterC25
04-03-2006, 06:46 PM
How can Reggie Bush help our team?

When we have a Runningback that rushed for 1000+ yards every season, and when we have one of the NFLs best returnman?

I don't get it. If he will only play wideout is he worth No.1 pick?

And even if he develop into one of the best runningback in NFL, he will not lead our team to playoffs. Let's take a look at some of the greatest running backs who have ever played the game and how they did when it comes to the Super Bowls which, after all, is why they play the games. O.J. Simpson never even played in one. Eric Dickerson didn't win one. Negative for Barry Sanders too. Emmitt Smith won a bunch but he also had Troy Aikman. Walter Payton didn't win a Super Bowl until the Bears had one of the best defenses in league history in 1985. Gale Sayers, the guy who Bush is most often compared to, never even played in a playoff game! How about some of the most productive runners from recent years. Curtis Martin? LaDainian Tomlinson? No and No. The bottom line is that even some of the best to ever play the game did not take their team to the Promised Land. (I copied this information from nfldraftcountdown.com)

How will bush help our team?

"How can Reggie Bush help our team?"
Is this a serious post?If it is feel free to never post again! Thank you and have a nice day

Johnny Utah
04-03-2006, 06:50 PM
Will he be the QB when Carr is on his butt? Reggie would be a great addition to any team . Why do we need him?

DD is a middle of the pack RB who only ran for 976 yards last year. Yes, he only ran for that many yards because he was injured, but that is nothing new.

Reggie Bush is a gamebreaker who can score a TD whenever he gets his hands on the ball. These guys are rare to find and that is why the Texans need him.

Bubbajwp
04-03-2006, 06:58 PM
Everybody keeps saying that DD has got 1000 yards every season but for a run oriented offense 1000 yards is not that impressive.

tulexan
04-03-2006, 07:00 PM
Davis didn't get 1000 last season.

bad
04-03-2006, 07:00 PM
Reggie would be a great addition to any team .

Why do we need him?
This post reminds me of Alex Trebek.

First give the answer.

Then ask the question.

Grid
04-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Bpa

The Dude Abides
04-03-2006, 07:57 PM
How can Reggie Bush help our team?

When we have a Runningback that rushed for 1000+ yards every season, and when we have one of the NFLs best returnman?

I don't get it. If he will only play wideout is he worth No.1 pick?

And even if he develop into one of the best runningback in NFL, he will not lead our team to playoffs. Let's take a look at some of the greatest running backs who have ever played the game and how they did when it comes to the Super Bowls which, after all, is why they play the games. O.J. Simpson never even played in one. Eric Dickerson didn't win one. Negative for Barry Sanders too. Emmitt Smith won a bunch but he also had Troy Aikman. Walter Payton didn't win a Super Bowl until the Bears had one of the best defenses in league history in 1985. Gale Sayers, the guy who Bush is most often compared to, never even played in a playoff game! How about some of the most productive runners from recent years. Curtis Martin? LaDainian Tomlinson? No and No. The bottom line is that even some of the best to ever play the game did not take their team to the Promised Land. (I copied this information from nfldraftcountdown.com)

How will bush help our team?

There is a difference between a guy like Dominick Davis who can run for around 1000 yards to a guy like Bush who's break away speed can get him up to 1500. Look at Denver's team for an example. Terrell Davis ran for over 1500 as did Clinton Portis. Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and Tatum Bell this year did not. Take a guy who can hit a home run with singles, doubles, and triples over a guy who can only hit singles and doubles. That's Bush over DD.

AtheGreat
04-03-2006, 08:11 PM
i dont know what im more excited about during April 29th.is it because we'll get some great additions to an improving team, or is it that i know people will have to stop making VY or RB posts that have been talked about for 3 months already. :hmmm:

Mailman04
04-03-2006, 08:22 PM
He is the best player in the draft. Who do you want Young? I wouldn't draft Young if I had the 20th pick in the first round.

dalemurphy
04-03-2006, 08:45 PM
How can Reggie Bush help our team?

When we have a Runningback that rushed for 1000+ yards every season, and when we have one of the NFLs best returnman?

I don't get it. If he will only play wideout is he worth No.1 pick?

And even if he develop into one of the best runningback in NFL, he will not lead our team to playoffs. Let's take a look at some of the greatest running backs who have ever played the game and how they did when it comes to the Super Bowls which, after all, is why they play the games. O.J. Simpson never even played in one. Eric Dickerson didn't win one. Negative for Barry Sanders too. Emmitt Smith won a bunch but he also had Troy Aikman. Walter Payton didn't win a Super Bowl until the Bears had one of the best defenses in league history in 1985. Gale Sayers, the guy who Bush is most often compared to, never even played in a playoff game! How about some of the most productive runners from recent years. Curtis Martin? LaDainian Tomlinson? No and No. The bottom line is that even some of the best to ever play the game did not take their team to the Promised Land. (I copied this information from nfldraftcountdown.com)

How will bush help our team?


First of all, Dominick Davis would be more effective if he got 15 touches a game instead of 30. He isn't the RB that gets stronger as the game goes along. Secondly, like most RBs, he isn't healthy all season. Third, Bush has special abilities that Davis does not. I like DD. I would like to trade down, but I'm also aware of how Bush could help the team. Look, if Bush is the player most people think he will be, we will have the best/deepest backfield in the NFL. I'm sure Kubiak is figuring out how to utilize each of them most effectively. You'll see Bush in motion and in the slot. He'll be much more effective on screen passes. Mathis doesn't return punts, only kickoffs. Bush has speed that Davis doesn't and requires more defensive attention than Davis Does. If it's 3rd and 1, I want DD in there. If it's 1st and 10, I want to see more of Bush than Davis. I also would like to see them both in the backfield and one of them go in motion, pulling a LB into coverage and away from the line of scrimmage. Imagine Moulds, Mathis, AJ, Davis, and Bush all as eligible receivers. That puts a heck of a lot of strain on any defense.

ToroFan
04-03-2006, 08:47 PM
I think Reggie Bush could help in a variety of different ways. Some of the ways he could help

- Defenses would be put in a pickle in trying to decide what formations to put out. Do you put in an extra defensive back? If so it makes it a lot easier to run the ball. Do you leave in a lb/safety? Bush would win that battle in my estimation when he lines up in the slot or as a receiver out of the backfield. Of course, all of this is predicated on Bush being able to run in-between the tackles some of the time (a determination that Kubes will make). But if so, he will draw away coverages designed to limit AJ, and get more looks for the other wide receivers.

- Some say he should be doing punt returns or line him up with mathis in kickoffs. I doubt he will do punt or kickoff returns, because in the salary cap era, it's just too much risk exposure. Cleveland paid the price for having Kellen Winslow on the coverage team, and he didn't get #1 pick money.

- I wonder how long DD and Bush are going to be in the same backfield. Although DD is a tough runner and gets tough yards, in order to punish defenses for putting in lighter packages to counteract Bush, you need a bigger back that wears on them (i.e. what Len Dale White did for USC this year).

Just my :twocents:

TexansLucky13
04-03-2006, 08:59 PM
I have seen others stress this point before and I want to throw it out here now. The 1st pick in the draft is not based on "needs", but rather on "wants". Needs are addressed through the rest of the draft, and even after that. God forbid that we go a season without improving one position.

It is not like we have avoided the O-line (which seems to be the trash talk about Kubiak, that he is apparently too caught up in Reggie to pay attention to that). We picked up Flanagan, a Veteran at Center, and moved a "not awfully terrible" McKinney back to his native position. If you challenge me with the idea that Flanagan is only good for two more seasons, so what! Thats why we have next years FA and Draft, and the next. To deal with things as they come up.

And if you want to challenge me and say that VY is what we "need", that is a different story altogether. But truth be told, we dont "need" either of them. So it comes down to the choice. We now have to pick the player who is considered the best. This is a hard job since it is almost impossible to compare a RB and a QB... you just cant do it with numbers. The three things I see in Bush that I think are his best merits are as follows:

1) Ability to take the ball quickly and find an opening.

2) An intense cutting ability due to a high agility. This makes him excellent for the quick routes that Kubiak has been known to run.

3) He has an unchartedly high vision. He can see holes opening and well understands how to counteract a defender when faced 1v1.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not a VY basher. He has merits as well.

1) Extremely athletic.... can break a run when he sees a hole, and can scramble to find openings in zone coverage.

2) Has above average accuracy and power. He's not just known for his legs, after all.

3) VY is agile enough to juke huge linemen who have broken through the tackles, and shake off a bad tackle.

I just think that our investment in Carr is too much for us to go and draft another QB. Besides... he would need years of training and sideline observing before he can be a definitive starter. Reggie will make an immediate, lasting impact... and can take pressure off of an often fatigued DD.

Either way... we are all Texans fans here. In the end, we will be kickin **** and takin names next year.

Go Texans!!

chuckm
04-03-2006, 09:03 PM
The 1st pick in the draft is not based on "needs", but rather on "wants".

good point ... 31 other teams would love to have the 1st pick ... that's not true most years (last year is a case in point) ...

TexansLucky13
04-03-2006, 09:04 PM
good point ... 31 other teams would love to have the 1st pick ... that's not true most years (last year is a case in point) ...

Good point. This year is a huge Draft, and even the 32nd pick will be extremely talented, compared to last year especially.

MorKnolle
04-03-2006, 09:23 PM
we have a running back DD who has proven in 3 season he cannot be durable and play in all our games.

Splitting time with Bush will help both DD with his durabilty and Bush. Bush is versatile enough to line up all over the field so playing them in the same backfield is not nearly the problem one would expect.

True a fantastic running back will not win a championship, but the same can be said about any position. look at Dan Marino's career. Payton Manning is heading that way.

Football is the ultimate team sport. More players on the field at any time than any of the major sports and larger rosters. Winning a championship is not equated to getting 1 good player. Basketball is different 1 player is 20% of a team.

I've heard rumors that Davis has somewhat questionable work ethic too, so maybe adding Bush will get Davis to get himself more prepared for the season and he'll be more effective in addition to adding Bush's unique abilities to teh offense.

ToroFan
04-03-2006, 09:45 PM
Good point. This year is a huge Draft, and even the 32nd pick will be extremely talented, compared to last year especially.

This is definitely a great year to have the number one pick.

It's interesting to see how successive years can change so dramatically in terms of talent. Compare the 1983 draft to the 1984 draft. You will not believe the disparity in the players drafted.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/drafts

CoastalTexan
04-03-2006, 09:46 PM
The general concensus is that when your 1st and 10 on your own 20 Davis might pick up 5-10 yards, which is good and will sustain the drive. But Bush might touch it and take it 80 yards at anytime, Davis can't do that. The only people on our team that can is AJ and Mathis (when he plays). This alone will add to our scoring by not being bogged down in 8 minute drives and then having to kick a field goal from the 30.

wolf123
04-03-2006, 10:11 PM
How can Reggie Bush help our team?

When we have a Runningback that rushed for 1000+ yards every season, and when we have one of the NFLs best returnman?

I don't get it. If he will only play wideout is he worth No.1 pick?

And even if he develop into one of the best runningback in NFL, he will not lead our team to playoffs. Let's take a look at some of the greatest running backs who have ever played the game and how they did when it comes to the Super Bowls which, after all, is why they play the games. O.J. Simpson never even played in one. Eric Dickerson didn't win one. Negative for Barry Sanders too. Emmitt Smith won a bunch but he also had Troy Aikman. Walter Payton didn't win a Super Bowl until the Bears had one of the best defenses in league history in 1985. Gale Sayers, the guy who Bush is most often compared to, never even played in a playoff game! How about some of the most productive runners from recent years. Curtis Martin? LaDainian Tomlinson? No and No. The bottom line is that even some of the best to ever play the game did not take their team to the Promised Land. (I copied this information from nfldraftcountdown.com)

How will bush help our team?

One of the main things stats that jumps out at me about our 1000 yard back was that last year he had a measily 2 rushing TD's

2 TD's. Bush has a greater chance of putting the ball in the endzone

TreWardTxn
04-03-2006, 10:23 PM
If running back were all about speed, then they would put CBs back there. Primary running backs need to be able fall forward, run between the tackles, block, and be viable threats in short yardage situations. You find a guy who does this and then can take it to the house, you have a phenomenal back. I am fully confident in Bush's ability to juke and beat guys once in the open field, but I am not sold on those other qualities. If I'm investing in a $60 M running back, the most expendable offensive position, I want to be damn sure...

tulexan
04-03-2006, 10:26 PM
Reggie does run between the tackles. If you actually watched USC games rather than highlights on ESPN you would know that.

Scooter
04-03-2006, 10:35 PM
unless he just totally busts, reggie's going to help the team because outside of power running, he looks like he does everything else better than DD. i dont think he does them better by a large enough margin to warrant the pick however. d'brickshaw ferguson vs todd wade (pitts at RT) is a considerable leap in projected talent. mario williams vs weaver is a pretty significant improvement. aj hawk vs any of our lb's is huge. reggie over DD ... not so much. all players are studs at their position and each would probably be the first pick in most drafts.

the arguement around this forum is that kubiak/sherman alone will improve the line enough so that we'll be o.k. in that area. DD averages 4.3yds and is a solid outlet in the passing game, is it wrong to assume that a better line is going to mean better production? 4.8ypc is great stuff. face it folks, bush is NOT going to average 8.6ypc and isnt going to run 80 yards every time he gets the ball, please stop saying he will. arguing that he'd take a load off DD is entirely wrong for the #1 pick. as the #1 pick it'd need to be vice versa. saying that denver is all about duel rb's is inaccurate ... only twice in shanahan's time in denver did they remotely split carries (01, 05). we're hitting wr's relatively heavy in FA (or atleast attempting to), so to say he's also a great receiver isnt the best arguement because he's not better than moulds and DD's already not bad out of the backfield. i'd really like to hear a better arguement for him being that much better than DD so that it's worth the first pick in suck a big draft.

i expect us to take bush, and it wont hurt my feelings because he's got great potential. he's not who i personally think would make the biggest difference on THIS team though.

oh, and please quit with the anti-vince/anti-bush crap. you've got your favorite and are unwilling to flinch on that, fine ... to insult someome else because they feel the same way about another player is hypocrytical & just dumb. quit labeling the other side as blind homers followed by insults, because both sides are just as guilty of their homerism. both have talent, and both look like they're going to make incredible pro's, i look forward to seeing them play.

(hehe rambled, sorry)

Kaiser Toro
04-03-2006, 10:38 PM
unless he just totally busts, reggie's going to help the team because outside of power running, he looks like he does everything else better than DD. i dont think he does them better by a large enough margin to warrant the pick however. d'brickshaw ferguson vs todd wade (pitts at RT) is a considerable leap in projected talent. mario williams vs weaver is a pretty significant improvement. aj hawk vs any of our lb's is huge. reggie over DD ... not so much. all players are studs at their position and each would probably be the first pick in most drafts.

the arguement around this forum is that kubiak/sherman alone will improve the line enough so that we'll be o.k. in that area. DD averages 4.3yds and is a solid outlet in the passing game, is it wrong to assume that a better line is going to mean better production? 4.8ypc is great stuff. face it folks, bush is NOT going to average 8.6ypc and isnt going to run 80 yards every time he gets the ball, please stop saying he will. arguing that he'd take a load off DD is entirely wrong for the #1 pick. as the #1 pick it'd need to be vice versa. saying that denver is all about duel rb's is inaccurate ... only twice in shanahan's time in denver did they remotely split carries (01, 05). we're hitting wr's relatively heavy in FA (or atleast attempting to), so to say he's also a great receiver isnt the best arguement because he's not better than moulds and DD's already not bad out of the backfield. i'd really like to hear a better arguement for him being that much better than DD so that it's worth the first pick in suck a big draft.

i expect us to take bush, and it wont hurt my feelings because he's got great potential. he's not who i personally think would make the biggest difference on THIS team though.

oh, and please quit with the anti-vince/anti-bush crap. you've got your favorite and are unwilling to flinch on that, fine ... to insult someome else because they feel the same way about another player is hypocrytical & just dumb. quit labeling the other side as blind homers followed by insults, because both sides are just as guilty of their homerism. both have talent, and both look like they're going to make incredible pro's, i look forward to seeing them play.

(hehe rambled, sorry)

Exactly where I have been for a long time. :redtowel:

Scooter
04-03-2006, 10:38 PM
This is definitely a great year to have the number one pick.

It's interesting to see how successive years can change so dramatically in terms of talent. Compare the 1983 draft to the 1984 draft. You will not believe the disparity in the players drafted.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/drafts

wow. lol that dropoff's incredible.

dalemurphy
04-03-2006, 10:38 PM
Most of the fans wanting Bush aren't homers at all. Unless by homer, you mean they're Texan fans.

It is the UT fans that are yelling for VYOung because they are Longhorn homers. I have no allegiance to either college program. And, like all football fans who don't have an allegiance to UT, I realize that drafting Bush is better for Houston than drafting Vince Young #1.

Scooter
04-03-2006, 10:43 PM
Most of the fans wanting Bush aren't homers at all. Unless by homer, you mean they're Texan fans.

It is the UT fans that are yelling for VYOung because they are Longhorn homers. I have no allegiance to either college program. And, like all football fans who don't have an allegiance to UT, I realize that drafting Bush is better for Houston than drafting Vince Young #1.

i'm an aggie and i think young has more potential. quit lumping folks together. your post is exactly what i'm talking about.

MojoX
04-03-2006, 10:49 PM
If running back were all about speed, then they would put CBs back there. Primary running backs need to be able fall forward, run between the tackles, block, and be viable threats in short yardage situations. You find a guy who does this and then can take it to the house, you have a phenomenal back. I am fully confident in Bush's ability to juke and beat guys once in the open field, but I am not sold on those other qualities. If I'm investing in a $60 M running back, the most expendable offensive position, I want to be damn sure...
Watch actual USC games and not the flashy ESPN highlights and will see that Bush runs between the tackles. Its not his fault that he can accelerate through the hole faster than it takes a defender to try to fill it. They guy has great running instincts. He makes quick decisions and, unless the play is busted, he makes one cut and zips past the line. Sometimes you have to watch the footage in slow motion to appreciate just how Bush takes the smallest hole and produces a big run out of it. Read what the scouts say about him. Then download a couple USC games and verify it with your own eyes. It's not just about his speed. The guy is coachable, he has vision, instincts, acceleration, agility, durability, and drive. He catches like a receiver and knows how to block.

MojoX
04-03-2006, 10:53 PM
both have talent, and both look like they're going to make incredible pro's, i look forward to seeing them play.
I will be watching both players closely, no matter who picks them. Both look like firsts-of-their-kind type of players. I appreciate boththeir talents. I don't feel the need to cut down one (or Carr) just to pump up the other.

Napa Auto Parts
04-03-2006, 10:58 PM
Bush is a special player i like him kind of but one question i have is if he puts up the same numbers as DD would he be considered a bust. since he was the 1st overall and if not why would we need him.

Mathis13
04-03-2006, 11:10 PM
We don't need him simply said I'd rather draft VY or rade down and get Brick or Wlliams.
:spy:
We really don't need another QB or another LT, and Mario Williams will not have the impact Reggie BUsh will have on our team. Reggie, AJ, mathis and Moulds will give D-Cooridnators nightmares on how to defend against them. Having Bush and Davis will keep them both fresh and give the extra burst.
While if you have Mario Williams you can put two above-average blockers on him and he'll be contained. After a few quarters he'll be worn out

TexansLucky13
04-03-2006, 11:14 PM
We really don't need another QB or another LT, and Mario Williams will not have the impact Reggie BUsh will have on our team. Reggie, AJ, mathis and Moulds will give D-Cooridnators nightmares on how to defend against them. Having Bush and Davis will keep them both fresh and give the extra burst.
While if you have Mario Williams you can put two above-average blockers on him and he'll be contained. After a few quarters he'll be worn out

Amen, brotha! Mathis will sprout next year, I believe. He just needs to work on the more "can only be acquired by experience" aspects of his game. Pass protection will help with that.

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 12:06 AM
i'm an aggie and i think young has more potential. quit lumping folks together. your post is exactly what i'm talking about.


I've not been insulting anyone. It's not an insult to call a Longhorn homer- a Longhorn homer. Young may have more potential. However, Bush may already be ticketed for the hall-of-fame before Young begins to shine at QB. My point is that almost every football expert in the entire country has Bush rated much higher than Vince Young. This is a Houston Texan message board. Most people that post on this board are fans from the southern half of Texas. Many of those fans are UT fans (or, in your case Big 12 fans). Most of the people that want Vince Young drafted by the Texans are UT fans. Most people that want Bush to be drafted are not USC fans. So, I disagree with your assertion that it is a bunch of homers on both sides that are continuing this argument. I've been on these boards pushing for a trade down since January. I have no allegiance at all to USC. I live in Austin. I no of what I speak. Mike Mayock says that Vince Young is a 2nd round player. Rich Gosselin has him rated as the 3rd QB in this draft. Most experts expect him to go no higher than 7. I have seen nobody that has him rated ahead of Bush.

tulexan
04-04-2006, 12:10 AM
A better question is have you seen anyone rated ahead of Bush? Because I haven't

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 12:18 AM
A better question is have you seen anyone rated ahead of Bush? Because I haven't


I've seen the occasional Ferguson or Mario Williams. Of course, that was before Bush had a workout on record.

kcwilson
04-04-2006, 12:19 AM
NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BREAK THE MOLD AND USE THE #1 OVERALL ON A NEED PLAYER.

The #1 is about best overall. Let's face it... as we are all Texans fans, whatever happens with the #1 overall, we will be excited about whoever we bring in. D'Brick, Vince, Teggie, Matt, Vernon, Demeco, whoever it is, we are getting a phenomenal player or tremendous value as being the #1 overall. Right now, it is Reggie's to lose, so until the end of April, we'll just be speculating and never solve anything here.

The other point I would like to make is that there are VERY FEW defensive players that could cover Bush coming out of the backfield. He is very upper body strong and obviously insanely fast.

tulexan
04-04-2006, 12:22 AM
We might not have to wait until the end of April, I have a feeling we might get our answer by the end of the week.

TreWardTxn
04-04-2006, 09:22 AM
Watch actual USC games and not the flashy ESPN highlights and will see that Bush runs between the tackles. Its not his fault that he can accelerate through the hole faster than it takes a defender to try to fill it. They guy has great running instincts. He makes quick decisions and, unless the play is busted, he makes one cut and zips past the line. Sometimes you have to watch the footage in slow motion to appreciate just how Bush takes the smallest hole and produces a big run out of it. Read what the scouts say about him. Then download a couple USC games and verify it with your own eyes. It's not just about his speed. The guy is coachable, he has vision, instincts, acceleration, agility, durability, and drive. He catches like a receiver and knows how to block.

This is what I know; I've seen Bush burst through huge holes, created by his massive O-line, which LBs had no chance of filling because they were on their back. I also know that once he played against a fast defense, capable of chasing him sideline to sideline, he was ineffective until his teammate could run between the tackles and wear the defense out (not the first time that happened). I'm not saying he can't do it, but I'm not going to sit here and act like it's a given. I'm sorry, I've watched USC numerous times and I can not recall Bush picking his way through the line, getting 4-5 yard gains. If the hole isn't there, he bounces out, and looks to reverse field, which if breaks one tackle he could go the distance, but he bypasses the 3-4 yards he could have gotten, not exactly NFL running. Bush in the open field is awesome, but he has to get there first...

infantrycak
04-04-2006, 09:40 AM
I also know that once he played against a fast defense, capable of chasing him sideline to sideline, he was ineffective until his teammate could run between the tackles and wear the defense out (not the first time that happened).

Yeah, guess he was ineffective rushing for 9 on 2nd and 2 in the 1st before White had his 1st carry to wear out the D. And then again when he ran for 9 on 2nd and 6 after White had worn out the D with 2 carries. Then there was the rush for 9 on 2nd and 1 after White's 3rd carry. And the 18 yd run in the 2nd... Bush was more effective in the 1st half than in the 2nd, contrary to the White wearing them down theory.

TEXANRED
04-04-2006, 09:44 AM
How can Reggie Bush help our team?


First, David Carr is an NFL QB and is ready now. That would be the first thing. Second, AJ, Moulds, Putzier, DD, Bush, Carr. As a D, who do you cover? Do you dare blitz?

Right now we have two people on the active roster that can score from anywhere on the field, AJ and Mathis. Mathis can't catch, AJ has a hard time fighting off the double teams.

Bush will be the kind of players that if moved around on the field the D will have to adjust there formations setting up plays to the opposite side. If the D doesnt adjust Bush burns them for a touchdown.

But that is what I see. I can't say what others think about him.

stonedtexansfan
04-04-2006, 10:17 AM
The last 3 RB's who have been drafted with the first pick have combined for less than 12000 yards. Ki-Jana Carter was drafter with the 1st pick and rushed for less than 2000 yards before having to retire due to knee injurys. Bo Jackson only made it to 2700 yards before his hip blew up. The guy before them (drafted in 1981) rushed for over 7000 yards in his career, but thats not worth the first pick.

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 10:30 AM
The last 3 RB's who have been drafted with the first pick have combined for less than 12000 yards. Ki-Jana Carter was drafter with the 1st pick and rushed for less than 2000 yards before having to retire due to knee injurys. Bo Jackson only made it to 2700 yards before his hip blew up. The guy before them (drafted in 1981) rushed for over 7000 yards in his career, but thats not worth the first pick.

Kijana Carter was a poor pick. He never had the resume that Bush has. I wouldn't argue against drafting a DLman #1 by using Russell Maryland as an example.

If Bo Jackson was coming out of the draft this year are you saying we shouldn't draft him. Knowing only his ability/talent, it would be moronic not to. Injuries happen and you can't account for them. If he'd had lots of injury problems before the draft that would've been a different matter.

Errant Hothy
04-04-2006, 10:36 AM
Mayock (?) thye NFL Network draft guru said Reggie runs harder then White. Take it for what it's worth.

jerek
04-04-2006, 10:36 AM
The last 3 RB's who have been drafted with the first pick have combined for less than 12000 yards. Ki-Jana Carter was drafter with the 1st pick and rushed for less than 2000 yards before having to retire due to knee injurys. Bo Jackson only made it to 2700 yards before his hip blew up. The guy before them (drafted in 1981) rushed for over 7000 yards in his career, but thats not worth the first pick.

Your comparison would be relevant if we had any reason to correlate the #1 overall pick with failure or "hips blowing up." Since this is about as relevant as comparing Vince Young to "all black quarterbacks," I will deem your comparison a coincidence rather than some kind of correlative, cause-and-effect relationship.

phantom17
04-04-2006, 01:40 PM
The thing I like about coach Kubes is that he is offensive minded, so I think Bush is the "choice"! Plus Carr has an extension. I like "The President"! This a SAFE pick for the Texans. Trading UP or Down has doomed this team ( way too many reaches for my taste), example: PBust, Babs, the WRONG Johnson, etc. JUST take the BEST darn player in the upper round!!! BUSH for '06.:) :twocents:

MojoX
04-04-2006, 02:17 PM
This is what I know; I've seen Bush burst through huge holes, created by his massive O-line, which LBs had no chance of filling because they were on their back. I also know that once he played against a fast defense, capable of chasing him sideline to sideline, he was ineffective until his teammate could run between the tackles and wear the defense out (not the first time that happened). I'm not saying he can't do it, but I'm not going to sit here and act like it's a given. I'm sorry, I've watched USC numerous times and I can not recall Bush picking his way through the line, getting 4-5 yard gains. If the hole isn't there, he bounces out, and looks to reverse field, which if breaks one tackle he could go the distance, but he bypasses the 3-4 yards he could have gotten, not exactly NFL running. Bush in the open field is awesome, but he has to get there first...
Umm, you might wanna go back and review the footage. You are complaining because the guy prefers to use his jets instead of pretending to be an Earl Campbell clone. Bush never had to consistently pick his way for 4-5 yard gains. He exhibited patient running but at his athletic level, against college competition, he was gonna get more than 5 yards. You wanna punish him for that? Yes, he ran behind a great line but not all those holes were gaping. You are certainly overstating the "on their backs" stuff there. The holes just look that way because Bush would blow through them so quickly. I've seen defenders (not on their backs by the way) just barely miss getting a hand on him, meaning that if he were any slower in his speed or reactions the D would have had time to get to him.

Sorry, but his play against Texas sold me on his ability to produce in the NFL. He faced a fast D that was geared up with all eyes on him and still produced. Of course he had to adjust his running to compensate for Texas' speed. If he doesn't make the boneheaded lateral attempt, we're probably singing a different story about that game and Vince is probably still in school. As someone else pointed out, Bush was effective before White did any damage. Hell, Bush's own teammates point out that White benefitted greatly from having Bush on the field as a decoy. One concern I did have from that game was how he seemed to respond to that lateral. Dude seemed to be moping quite a bit. I saw Leinart going over to pump him up. Maybe Bush is just that hard on himself and easily bounces back, but I didn't like seeing him mope, especially in contrast to the great leadership Young was displaying.

Bush is no guarantee; none of these players come with one. But, as with Vince, there is no need to raise questions due to his running style. As long as the coach that plays him accepts that Bush is not a pounder, the dude will be OK. He is not and never will be Earl Campbell. He will have to adjust to what NFL athletes can do, just as he had to adjust to the college level.

TreWardTxn
04-05-2006, 12:55 AM
Yeah, guess he was ineffective rushing for 9 on 2nd and 2 in the 1st before White had his 1st carry to wear out the D. And then again when he ran for 9 on 2nd and 6 after White had worn out the D with 2 carries. Then there was the rush for 9 on 2nd and 1 after White's 3rd carry. And the 18 yd run in the 2nd... Bush was more effective in the 1st half than in the 2nd, contrary to the White wearing them down theory.

Oh, I like it when they come with the numbers, let's get down then. Let's just say that Bush's first showing on the field wasn't quite spectacular, one carry for -2 yards. Luckily UT fumbled, he came back out against a flatter D and rattled off some good runs of 9,9,3, and 9 over his next four carries, bringing his first five average to 5.6, nice. After that 5th carry, his next three totes were for 1,2, and 1 yard. His next three; 17,5, and zero; bringing that last six carry average to 4.3. I don't care how you slice it, but 6 of your first 11 carries being for 3 yards or less is ineffective running. Over his first 5 and 6 carry stints, White ran at a 6.2 and 8.1 clip, only carrying the ball for less than 4 yards once. That's effective running, picking up first downs, and wearing down the defense.

So how do you want to color it? I say Bush came out and capitalized on the demoralization of the fumble, but after that got bottled up. White came in, established the power game and allowed Bush to have his only productive carries of the 3rd and 4th quarter, a 17ydr and the 26 yard TD, which I contend, would never have happened if the D weren't worn out from White.

Throw out all the averages and everything, anyone who watched that game knows that Bush did not impress running the football. Granted, his overall numbers were great, and if he didn't try that inexplicable lateral, they would seem more impressive. My point remains, as a runner he was ineffective for the most part, and if you don't agree with that outright, then you must concede that relative to his teammate, he was less effective.

Bottom line, don't tell me a guy is the 'greatest running back/football prospect in 15 years' when he played second fiddle to his college backup, and performed better catching the ball rather than running with it.

TreWardTxn
04-05-2006, 01:10 AM
Umm, you might wanna go back and review the footage. You are complaining because the guy prefers to use his jets instead of pretending to be an Earl Campbell clone. Bush never had to consistently pick his way for 4-5 yard gains. He exhibited patient running but at his athletic level, against college competition, he was gonna get more than 5 yards. You wanna punish him for that? Yes, he ran behind a great line but not all those holes were gaping. You are certainly overstating the "on their backs" stuff there. The holes just look that way because Bush would blow through them so quickly. I've seen defenders (not on their backs by the way) just barely miss getting a hand on him, meaning that if he were any slower in his speed or reactions the D would have had time to get to him.

Sorry, but his play against Texas sold me on his ability to produce in the NFL. He faced a fast D that was geared up with all eyes on him and still produced. Of course he had to adjust his running to compensate for Texas' speed. If he doesn't make the boneheaded lateral attempt, we're probably singing a different story about that game and Vince is probably still in school. As someone else pointed out, Bush was effective before White did any damage. Hell, Bush's own teammates point out that White benefitted greatly from having Bush on the field as a decoy. One concern I did have from that game was how he seemed to respond to that lateral. Dude seemed to be moping quite a bit. I saw Leinart going over to pump him up. Maybe Bush is just that hard on himself and easily bounces back, but I didn't like seeing him mope, especially in contrast to the great leadership Young was displaying.

Bush is no guarantee; none of these players come with one. But, as with Vince, there is no need to raise questions due to his running style. As long as the coach that plays him accepts that Bush is not a pounder, the dude will be OK. He is not and never will be Earl Campbell. He will have to adjust to what NFL athletes can do, just as he had to adjust to the college level.

I'm not saying that you have to be Earl Campbell, but you have to be able to be physical, fall forward, and be on the field in short yardage. Yes, I exxagerated for effect, but the blocks were solid, lockdown. Considering what White did, I would expect more out of Bush, he's a better player, that's what I'm saying. In the NFL, 6 of your first 11 carries can not be for 3 yards or less (with 5 being for <2yds.), that simply won't be good enough. He did better catching the ball out of the backfield than taking handoffs; that's not the quality I look for in my primary back during the biggest game of his life.

As far as the " decoy" argument, USC had the most offensive weapons of any team last season, you couldn't [I]completely[I] key on any one guy (double team every play) 'cause they would eat you up just as much. Additionally, I didn't see Bush used as a decoy for White once in that game, so it's a moot point. They ran a fake reverse to him once for an incomplete WR pass, that's about it.

I'm not being "sold" on anything; I think Bush is a good running back (I mean that in the purest sense possible) in spite of his Texas performance, not because of it. Guess we just see it different...

infantrycak
04-05-2006, 01:10 AM
I don't care how you slice it, but 6 of your first 11 carries being for 3 yards or less is ineffective running.

So how do you want to color it? I say Bush came out and capitalized on the demoralization of the fumble, but after that got bottled up.

So now it is the demoralization of the fumble? Sorry, I was confused by you not mentioning the fumble and saying White wore them down.

In any event, while I am a huge Emmitt Smith fan, your 1st statement above shows an incredible lack of perspective on RB's which is countered by--Barry Sanders. Dude took tons of plays for a loss and is still considered one of if not the best RB of all time by most people. I would certainly agree VY outplayed RB in the Rose Bowl, but going so far as to say 6.3 ypc with a TD and 95 receiving yds is "ineffective" just ain't facing reality.

TreWardTxn
04-05-2006, 02:59 AM
So now it is the demoralization of the fumble? Sorry, I was confused by you not mentioning the fumble and saying White wore them down.

In any event, while I am a huge Emmitt Smith fan, your 1st statement above shows an incredible lack of perspective on RB's which is countered by--Barry Sanders. Dude took tons of plays for a loss and is still considered one of if not the best RB of all time by most people. I would certainly agree VY outplayed RB in the Rose Bowl, but going so far as to say 6.3 ypc with a TD and 95 receiving yds is "ineffective" just ain't facing reality.

First off, I gave props for his receiving, I am talking about his between-the-tackles running ability on handoffs. Second, if I don't get a single other point across this post, please let it be that Bush is not Barry Sanders, so anything Barry did does not apply to him. Barry was 5'8'' 200+, his butt was an inch off the ground when he ran, as opposed to Bush's upright style, never had an even average O-line, and he was difficult to tackle in the backfield because he could break tackles. The Gale Sayers comparison is fair, but not Barry Sanders...

I apologize for the oversimplification in the first post, I didn't think anyone wanted to read the long(er) version. Can we agree that turnovers swing momentum, and placing a D that just went 3 and out right back on the field is "deflating"? And that allowed the offense to readjust and give Bush extra carries where he rattled off good runs? OK, but after that, the defense regrouped and he became stagnant, until USC utilized White in the game more (for running plays), and used Reggie as the 'change of pace'. On his next 6 carries only two were for more than 2 yards (17 and 5). I don't see how you can call that effective, when the other guy on the team is getting a first down every other carry. White was more effective taking handoffs and running the ball, I don't see any way around that.

The Texans are about to bring Bush in here and pay him $60M because they think he can make a huge play anytime he touches the ball, not just on screen passes.

rittenhouserobz
04-05-2006, 07:21 AM
Over his first 5 and 6 carry stints, White ran at a 6.2 and 8.1 clip, only carrying the ball for less than 4 yards once. That's effective running, picking up first downs, and wearing down the defense.

Throw out all the averages and everything, anyone who watched that game knows that Bush did not impress running the football. Granted, his overall numbers were great, and if he didn't try that inexplicable lateral, they would seem more impressive. My point remains, as a runner he was ineffective for the most part, and if you don't agree with that outright, then you must concede that relative to his teammate, he was less effective.


The top section: When Bush is getting the right holes the defense will be getting tired from chasing him 10-15 yards. Bush can tax the defense with the right conditions.

bottom part: Try to make up your mind. IS he great or not?

el toro
04-05-2006, 09:29 AM
So we're back to the 'why would you want a Benz when you already have a Camry argument'? Yawn.

TreWardTxn
04-05-2006, 11:05 AM
The top section: When Bush is getting the right holes the defense will be getting tired from chasing him 10-15 yards. Bush can tax the defense with the right conditions.

bottom part: Try to make up your mind. IS he great or not?

My entire point is that behind the same offensive line, White was more productive running the football. The run which makes Bush's running stats look decent was the TD when he turned the corner, and he didn't even hit a hole on that run. How can one guy have the right holes, and the other guy not? Did they just not block for him as well?

The numbers reflect greatness, but you can't always take them point blank. 52 of Reggie's total 84 yards came on three runs. If a guy breaks off a 60 yard run, but finishes with 90 yards on 10 carries, it looks like he had a great game and ran at an average of a first down every carry, but that may not necessarily be true. If those other carries weren't first downs or TDs, then the overall performance is not as impressive/effective...

His receiving numbers were inflated due the 27 yard reception he had at the end of the game because Texas played way off, which they could do because USC had no timeouts.

I suppose it's a matter of preference, but I would rather have the guy (like LT) who can break the 60 yard run, and still nickel and dime his way to a 100+ yd. game, picking up first downs and keeping his offense on the field.

I don't see Bush as the complete, overall back that most others do, he has major questions to his game IMO...

Hawg
04-05-2006, 11:31 AM
My entire point is that behind the same offensive line, White was more productive running the football. The run which makes Bush's running stats look decent was the TD when he turned the corner, and he didn't even hit a hole on that run. How can one guy have the right holes, and the other guy not? Did they just not block for him as well?

The numbers reflect greatness, but you can't always take them point blank. 52 of Reggie's total 84 yards came on three runs. If a guy breaks off a 60 yard run, but finishes with 90 yards on 10 carries, it looks like he had a great game and ran at an average of a first down every carry, but that may not necessarily be true. If those other carries weren't first downs or TDs, then the overall performance is not as impressive/effective...

His receiving numbers were inflated due the 27 yard reception he had at the end of the game because Texas played way off, which they could do because USC had no timeouts.

I don't see Bush as the complete, overall back that most others do, he has major questions to his game IMO...


USC used White and Bush in two totally differnent ways. They used Bush to go for the home run hit going around the end to try and turn the corner. They used White as the smash mouth carreer. I think that Bush has enough strength to be able to run between the tackles efectivley. You cant way that bush isnt going to be able to run in there yet because you dont really now, because white was used primarily in those situations. Me personally I like the texans taking Bush. I think he will give us the homerun threat and I believe that he will be able to run between the tackles. Let us not forget that we have DD.

Tejaspro
04-05-2006, 11:37 AM
This is what I know; I've seen Bush burst through huge holes, created by his massive O-line, which LBs had no chance of filling because they were on their back. I also know that once he played against a fast defense, capable of chasing him sideline to sideline, he was ineffective until his teammate could run between the tackles and wear the defense out (not the first time that happened). I'm not saying he can't do it, but I'm not going to sit here and act like it's a given. I'm sorry, I've watched USC numerous times and I can not recall Bush picking his way through the line, getting 4-5 yard gains. If the hole isn't there, he bounces out, and looks to reverse field, which if breaks one tackle he could go the distance, but he bypasses the 3-4 yards he could have gotten, not exactly NFL running. Bush in the open field is awesome, but he has to get there first...

blah....blah.....blah....blah.....:brickwall

TreWardTxn
04-05-2006, 02:05 PM
USC used White and Bush in two totally differnent ways. They used Bush to go for the home run hit going around the end to try and turn the corner. They used White as the smash mouth carreer. I think that Bush has enough strength to be able to run between the tackles efectivley. You cant way that bush isnt going to be able to run in there yet because you dont really now, because white was used primarily in those situations. Me personally I like the texans taking Bush. I think he will give us the homerun threat and I believe that he will be able to run between the tackles. Let us not forget that we have DD.

This is what I'm talking about. Name me the last NFL back that was drafted highly and (according to you) hadn't proved (and I mean left no doubt) that he could run solidly between the tackles? We may both "think" he can do it, but the question remains; why did he not do it (effectively) in the Rose Bowl? Of course USC used White differently, because initially they were trying to beat Texas with speed and fast defenses (and any good D in the NFL is fast) don't get beat with speed alone.

That said, I'm not saying Bush won't be the pick or that he shouldn't be the pick (if the Texans want the best chance of winning within 2 years). I just want people to realize that he may not be the running threat most people assume he will be...