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View Full Version : Profootballtalk unimpresed, VY in play?


Dr. Toro
04-02-2006, 07:24 PM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

ThaShark316
04-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

*plays price is right losing horns sound*

Sorry, PFT, thanks for playing. Bye bye.

dat_boy_yec
04-02-2006, 07:31 PM
Oh I think it's funny that they put more faith in a hand timed run that was provided by an anonimous scout than the electronic device that accounted for the fast track. Then went on to make it seem slower by adding their own equations. I wonders why they didn't also put in the percentage of stadiums that still actually have grass.

Johnny Utah
04-02-2006, 07:32 PM
I'm sure that someone who hand timed Bush clocked him at 5.5 also. Whenever you hand time someone there is risk of error.

I will go by the electronic time on this one.

tulexan
04-02-2006, 08:05 PM
That makes no sense. Almost all college fields are grass and he hasn't had any issues. At South Bend the grass was 2 or 3 inches high and he was still blazing fast.

I think ProFootball Talk is just trying to create some controversy.

D-ReK
04-02-2006, 08:07 PM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"Our scouts are better than PFT's" - Charley Casserly

MONARCH
04-02-2006, 08:22 PM
......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.........THE TRANSITION HAS BEGUN!


Our native son VINCE YOUNG is indeed coming home to play.........THAT BURNT ORANGE SUNSET IS GOING TO BE BEAUTIFUL......
MONARCH

Tejaspro
04-02-2006, 08:31 PM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Who ever wrote that article should add two points to his IQ and then he could compete with a carrot.

edo783
04-02-2006, 08:34 PM
......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.........THE TRANSITION HAS BEGUN!


Our native son VINCE YOUNG is indeed coming home to play.........THAT BURNT ORANGE SUNSET IS GOING TO BE BEAUTIFUL......
MONARCH

Geeezz Monarch, I'm sorry to see that new medication isn't working out to well. Try another brand, maybe that will bring reality into focus for you.

dat_boy_yec
04-02-2006, 08:35 PM
Who ever wrote that article should add two points to his IQ and then he could compete with a carrot.
Aww, man that was funny.:heh: Where do you all come up with this stuff.

jacquescas
04-02-2006, 08:36 PM
its gonna be in soo many faces

houstonhurricane
04-02-2006, 08:44 PM
Well, that is the same site that reported Parcell's retired on Friday. How did that work for you. However, they are also the group that first reported VY's amazing six on the Wonderlic...so they must be credible!

tulexan
04-02-2006, 08:45 PM
So we aren't supposed to believe an electronically timed 40 time done by a well respected timing company that also does the Nike Camps, but we are supposed to believe an anonymous scout who claimed to have hand timed him on a "fast surface" at 4.4?

Was this written by Major Adams or Vince Young?

MONARCH
04-02-2006, 08:54 PM
Geeezz Monarch, I'm sorry to see that new medication isn't working out to well. Try another brand, maybe that will bring reality into focus for you.

COME ON NOW PAL......surely you do better than that.....? GO ahead, and take off your cardinal and mustard colored shades......for I will allow you to really admire the prescription to success........

Or, would you rather wait upon DRAFT DAY 2006..........this medication has me indeed relaxed........
MONARCH

ArlingtonTexan
04-02-2006, 09:12 PM
The number only matters in terms of how it compares to other who ran under the same conditions. If I believe the numbers from the other players, then Bush is still significantly faster than anyone else who ran at USC today. That is what is or isn't important, not that its 4.38 or 4.45.

Kaiser Toro
04-02-2006, 09:15 PM
As it has been said before we did not need to see his 40 time to know that he is football fast. Much ado about nothing.

Dr. Toro
04-02-2006, 10:27 PM
Did they also know that his 40 since it was electric should be a 4.2.

Go Horns!

Pasquarelli's scouts didn't get that memo. They had him at 4.37 and 4.41.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532

edo783
04-02-2006, 10:57 PM
Pasquarelli's scouts didn't get that memo. They had him at 4.37 and 4.41.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532

WOW, and hand held times are so much more acurate and reliable than those pesky electronic ones.

wolf123
04-02-2006, 11:02 PM
Pasquarelli's scouts didn't get that memo. They had him at 4.37 and 4.41.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532

But they also added 0.08sec to the original time to get there times.

Porky
04-02-2006, 11:03 PM
The only numbers I care about are the number of times guys have caught him from behind. Bush will be a Texan. That's a Porky 100% certified take it to the bank or your money back guarantee. :redtowel:

The Dude Abides
04-02-2006, 11:05 PM
The only numbers I care about are the number of times guys have caught him from behind. Bush will be a Texan. That's a Porky 100% certified take it to the bank or your money back guarantee. :redtowel:

Can i put down a million dollars then just in case?

TexansLucky13
04-02-2006, 11:08 PM
COME ON NOW PAL......surely you do better than that.....? GO ahead, and take off your cardinal and mustard colored shades......for I will allow you to really admire the prescription to success........

Or, would you rather wait upon DRAFT DAY 2006..........this medication has me indeed relaxed........
MONARCH

I hope im not within two hundred yards of you, MONARCH, on Draft Day. The screams of agony coming from you will be enough to shatter most of the windows in the Texaco building.

But alas... the frames of the stadium which we call Reliant will shake when the celebration begins on Bush Day, 2006!

Porky
04-02-2006, 11:14 PM
LOS ANGELES -- The wooing of Reggie Bush by the Houston Texans, already an ardent courtship by the franchise which owns the top overall selection in the draft, will progress to the next level later this week.

ESPN.com has learned that the Southern California tailback and Heisman Trophy winner will meet with Texans officials, including owner Bob McNair, in Houston on Thursday. As part of a full day of activities, Bush's agent, Joel Segal, will huddle with Dan Ferens, who handles the Texans' contract negotiations.

Because they hold the top pick in the April 29 draft, the Texans may commence contract negotiations at any point and may, in fact, speak with more than one player. It is not known if the Texans will initiate talks with Segal on Thursday, but it will not be surprising if the two sides use the meeting to get some sort of feel for each other's financial expectations.

Sources confirmed the Texans will meet Friday with quarterback Vince Young. Unlike Bush, the University of Texas star will perform on-field drills for the Texans staff.

The Texans, who aren't likely to trade the first pick, prefer to have the No. 1 choice under contract, or at least with a contract agreement, before the draft begins.

Bush will not do any on-field drills on Thursday. Instead, the day will be more of a get-acquainted visit, in which Bush will meet with coaches and team officials. That process has already begun, as Bush dined on Saturday night with Texans officials at a Beverly Hills steak house.

-- Len Pasquarelli


And.....

LOS ANGELES -- Scheduled to be the guest of honor at Petco Park on Monday, Reggie Bush strongly hinted that the first pitch of the San Diego Padres' 2006 season will be a curveball.

An interesting choice by the Southern California tailback and Heisman Trophy winner, since he delivered nothing but fastballs during the Trojans' "pro day" workouts Sunday afternoon, a session in which Bush clearly cemented his status as the first overall selection by the Houston Texans in the April 29 draft.

link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)

Reading between the lines, I think we will start contract negiotions with Bush's agent Thursday. Bush is all but signed, sealed, and delivered. And it still comes with that 100% money back guarantee. :yahoo:

David's Busted Carr
04-02-2006, 11:19 PM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

LOL!!!!

We've all seen how Michael Bennett's "sprinter speed" has paid off for him in the NFL.

HJam72
04-02-2006, 11:35 PM
As it has been said before we did not need to see his 40 time to know that he is football fast. Much ado about nothing.

Exactly. Any questions I have about Bush as a RB would definitely not include worrying about his speed.

KSig44
04-02-2006, 11:41 PM
And you say that Bush will run slower on grass, but it's still a 4.4. VY worked out on turf also and ran the 4.57. Will that make his grass speed closer to a 4.7? You can't evaluate the players of two seperate scales.:spy:

phan1
04-03-2006, 02:06 AM
I wouldn't put too much stock on what this site says. They look like an NFL's version of a celebrity gossip magazine (like Stars or something).

Frank_The_Tank
04-03-2006, 02:19 AM
The only numbers I care about are the number of times guys have caught him from behind. Bush will be a Texan. That's a Porky 100% certified take it to the bank or your money back guarantee. :redtowel:


Hey buddy go back and watch the National Championship game, Texas had linebackers sucking him up from beind LOL

SnakeOilTanker
04-03-2006, 02:56 AM
...no they didnt

im a huge texas fan, but the idea that bush wasn't good against the horns is foolish

Frank_The_Tank
04-03-2006, 03:01 AM
Vince is comming home, all USC's pro day proved is that they hold the NFL's best shot at OT, it proved that Matt Leinart has a weak arm, and Reggie Bush is not one bit better than the RB From Memphis. Ha Ha Ha. all you Bush moles eat your heart out. Your boy is going to fall down the charts!

Frank_The_Tank
04-03-2006, 03:04 AM
Oh and yes they did catch him from behind, in fact many times. I have had the pleasure of watching that game 4 to 5 times to see what all they hype about Bush. All I saw was a guy who never played a solid D. When he did he got shut down. Coach wouldn't even play him in the clutch!

whiskeyrbl
04-03-2006, 03:07 AM
Oh and yes they did catch him from behind, in fact many times. I have had the pleasure of watching that game 4 to 5 times to see what all they hype about Bush. All I saw was a guy who never played a solid D. When he did he got shut down. Coach wouldn't even play him in the clutch!

Yeah and they lost because of him not playing him.

Frank_The_Tank
04-03-2006, 03:15 AM
No they lost because they were stopped, and Bush was not producing! They lost because Vince Young put it on that .....

whiskeyrbl
04-03-2006, 03:18 AM
No they lost because they were stopped, and Bush was not producing! They lost because Vince Young put it on that .....
Yea he had a great game, a great season,a great college career,but we still won't draft him.

wolf123
04-03-2006, 03:37 AM
No they lost because they were stopped, and Bush was not producing! They lost because Vince Young put it on that .....

My friend, I weap for your ignorance. I also had the pleasure of witnessing the incredible Rose Bowl of 2005, and I saw two incredible teams battling it out in every aspect of the game. I also witnessed a "non-producing" Bush produce 82yards rushing (6.3yard avg) with a rushing TD and 95yards on 6 rec (avg of 15.8YARDS!!!!). I admit he was definitely SHUT DOWN (SARCASM). He also would have had a 2nd rushing TD, but attempted to do too much by lateralling to a FB who couldn't catch a ball if his life depended on it. And I also believe, before you attack his maturity or whatever you might come up with, that VY did the exact same thing on the next drive, except he got away with a clearly evident forward lateral. I am not arguing that VY had a worse game than Bush in anyway, all I am saying is your claims that Bush was shut down by Texas are false. And, answer me this, if White was raping the Texas front 7 every time he touched the ball, why shouldn't Carroll go with him on a 3rd and short?

Again, I am an avid UT fan and I LOVED the Rose Bowl, but I am also an unbiased fan of the game who recognizes talent in Bush and is easily annoyed by ignorant posters attempting at devaluing the amazing accomplishments he had at the collegiate level.

Go Texans!:redtowel:

wolf123
04-03-2006, 03:39 AM
Yea he had a great game, a great season,a great college career,but we still won't draft him.

I agree completely! He has no chance of being drafted by the Texans. An incredible athlete and leader, but not a Houston Texan through the draft...sorry

C Madd
04-03-2006, 04:08 AM
Vince is comming home, all USC's pro day proved is that they hold the NFL's best shot at OT, it proved that Matt Leinart has a weak arm, and Reggie Bush is not one bit better than the RB From Memphis. Ha Ha Ha. all you Bush moles eat your heart out. Your boy is going to fall down the charts!
Hope he gets good seats to watch the Texans and Reggie.

bdiddy
04-03-2006, 07:29 AM
pure speculation

I know for a fact that Bush ran a 4.28 the day before his pro day.

dirty steve
04-03-2006, 07:42 AM
Hey buddy go back and watch the National Championship game, Texas had linebackers sucking him up from beind LOL

just like on that 26 yard touchdown where he ran past everybody.

HomeBred_Texan
04-03-2006, 08:09 AM
COME ON NOW PAL......surely you do better than that.....? GO ahead, and take off your cardinal and mustard colored shades......for I will allow you to really admire the prescription to success........

Or, would you rather wait upon DRAFT DAY 2006..........this medication has me indeed relaxed........
MONARCH
I can see Monarch now on Draft Day. Vince Dumb doesn't even get selected in the top 10 and he will still be praising how fantastic he is. Please spare us with the Vince Dumb is God...:stirpot:

el toro
04-03-2006, 11:36 AM
This was predictable. Unless Bush ran a 2.20/40 the Young crowd would be filling up the forum with its nonsense.

But, I know, VY wore burnt orange in college so that means you draft him.

Grow up.

barzilla
04-03-2006, 11:59 AM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't everyone timed on a track or on astroturf? So, shouldn't everyone's time be downgraded.

kbourda
04-03-2006, 12:16 PM
Excuse me. But isn't this the same site reporting that Vince made a six on his Wonderlich? I see, burial and praise in a month's time. Look the Texans are "pacifying" the VY locals. They have no nor had any intention in drafting Vince Young. They are giving the apperance that they are "giving Vince a hard look". I, for one, am not fooled one bit. By not drafting him would be a huge PR hit. So if the locals see that the owner is going to VY Pro Day it gives the perception that they are putting a bunch of thought in the decision.

texasguy346
04-03-2006, 12:28 PM
Excuse me. But isn't this the same site reporting that Vince made a six on his Wonderlich? I see, burial and praise in a month's time. Look the Texans are "pacifying" the VY locals. They have no nor had any intention in drafting Vince Young. They are giving the apperance that they are "giving Vince a hard look". I, for one, am not fooled one bit. By not drafting him would be a huge PR hit. So if the locals see that the owner is going to VY Pro Day it gives the perception that they are putting a bunch of thought in the decision.

I honestly don't buy into the whole 'conspiracy'. Anyone who really thinks an NFL team isn't going to put a lot of thought into deciding who they take in the first round, much less the 1st overall pick, is kidding themselves. They're preparing to pay a substantial amount of money to one player, and NFL teams want to make a wise investment.

I'm not sure what the front office is thinking, but if, after their evaluations, they're leaning toward taking Bush then so be it. Just because the player they decided would be the better pick for their franchise isn't your player doesn't mean they didn't put a lot of thought into the pick. They simple evaluated the players differently than you did. Could they be wrong? Of course. Could you be wrong? Also a possibility. Only time will tell, but to accuse them of not putting a lot of thought into it sounds a lot more like sour grapes than anything else.

kcwilson
04-04-2006, 12:28 AM
Unimpresed with Bush's 40. Say it converts to a 4.45-4.5 on grass. Means he doesn't have Bennett type sprinter's speed. Say it could be VY at #1 trade down or not. Consider the source, but it's funny given all the derision VY received for their Wonderlic story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Anyone concerned about Reggie's speed only need reference the distance he leaped on his touchdown in the championship game. Simple physics tell you the following:

Leaping from the 4 yard line + landing 3-4 yards deep in the endzone = FAST

bkimble
04-04-2006, 07:11 AM
REGGIE RUNS A 4.4

Despite a report from Gil Brandt of NFL.com that Heisman winner Reggie Bush put up a 4.33 in the 40 on Sunday's pro day workout in L.A., a league source tells us that Bush was hand timed at 4.4 -- on a fast track.

That projects to anywhere from a 4.45 to a 4.5 on a grass surface, and it means that Bush doesn't have Michael Bennett-type sprinters' speed.

All things considered, the Bush and Leinart workouts muddy the top of the draft, opening the door for the possibility that, in the end, Texas quarterback Vince Young could be the first overall pick, with or without a trade out of the top spot by the Houston Texans.

:yahoo:

TEXANRED
04-04-2006, 07:36 AM
A legue source? What legue source? Oh you mean Vince Youngs agent.

Hey I could be a league source. Sure why not.

According to this league source Reggie Bush ran a 3.9 forty in the mud and moddified the bench press of 225 to 325 and pressed it a record setting 200 times.

In a related story Vince Young was reported to be cross eyed and unable to hit anything in front him, insted, hitting the scouts who where standing directly next to him on the side lines. Oh, and had a foot odor that his momma said would knock you out.

KSig44
04-04-2006, 07:41 AM
So what does VY speed adjust to on grass? A 4.7?:confused:

Still would rather have Bush

thunderkyss
04-04-2006, 07:59 AM
So what does VY speed adjust to on grass? A 4.7?:confused:

Still would rather have Bush


Vince doesn't need to be fast. He just needs to be fast for a guy who is 6'5" 230lbs........ 4.7 would do nicely.

Bush on the other hand.......... looks alot faster than 4.4 I wonder whose hands was doing the timing??

KSig44
04-04-2006, 08:32 AM
VY doens't need to be fast? His whole game is based around his ability to scramble. He is not the best passer in the draft, so what do we judge him on?:brickwall

Arm? No, throwing motion is off
Speed? No, ran a 4.57 which is a 4.7 on grass. plus he "doesn't need to be fast"
wonderlich? No, barely wrote his name on the first one

If you are going to judge Bush on things that equate to his game, then you do it with VY also. Speed is his game, and he is lacking on that as of now. Running a 4.7 on grass makes you faster that maybe 5 of the opposing 11 defensive players. Not going to work.

bad
04-04-2006, 08:38 AM
REGGIE RUNS A 4.4
All things considered, the Bush and Leinart workouts muddy the top of the draft, opening the door for the possibility that, in the end, Texas quarterback Vince Young could be the first overall pick, with or without a trade out of the top spot by the Houston Texans.
Well that makes sense. All things considered. Bush pumping out 24 reps just screams "Take Vince!"

Thanks. I needed a laugh this morning.

:crazy:

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 08:44 AM
In 1988, Troy Aikman's last year in college, what QB won the heisman trophy?


Rodney Peete... Why? because Rodney Peete was a better college QB than Troy Aikman. However, Aikman was drafted 1st overall and Peete was drafted in the 5th round. Aikman's skills were better suited for the NFL but Peete was the better college QB.

Vince Young was one of the all-time great college football players. However, his game is not tailored for the NFL. Now, he has more NFL potential than someone like Peete because he has adequate height and even more athletic ability than Peete had. However, Vince will need a couple of years on the sideline and a couple of years learning on the field before anyone knows if he will make it as an NFL Qb. It just doesn't make to draft a player #1 overall with that much uncertainty that is that much of a project- regardless of potential.

thunderkyss
04-04-2006, 08:53 AM
VY doens't need to be fast? His whole game is based around his ability to scramble. He is not the best passer in the draft, so what do we judge him on?:brickwall I think he was the best passer in 2005.


Arm? No, throwing motion is off
Speed? No, ran a 4.57 which is a 4.7 on grass. plus he "doesn't need to be fast"
wonderlich? No, barely wrote his name on the first one
He's got a strong arm, and is very accurate despite the motion. He's got great vision, poise under pressure, and is accurate on the move. Makes good football decisions, and manages his offense well.

If you are going to judge Bush on things that equate to his game, then you do it with VY also. Speed is his game, and he is lacking on that as of now. Running a 4.7 on grass makes you faster that maybe 5 of the opposing 11 defensive players. Not going to work.
WOW.......... OMG............. LOOK AT VINCE YOUNG FLY ACROSS THE FIELD...

That's not the kind of thing fans say as they watch him play.... Speed isn't a big part of his game....

By the by, I've never knocked Reggie about his game.... he's amazing... with our FA acquisitions, I want Reggie, makes the most sense....... But I'd take Vince before Reggie in a heartbeat.

As the QB goes, so does the team.

KSig44
04-04-2006, 09:18 AM
Yeah, VY was a great college QB, much like Charlie Ward, Tommy Frazier, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware, David Klingler and the list goes on. He is fast, but running will be a non factor in the NFL. Michael Vick is somewhat effective and he runs a sub 4.4, Vy will get his teeth knocked in the minute he crosses the line of scrimmage. He has never won a game against a good to average team by purely sitting in the pocket and throwing, his speed is always a threat. Games he has been shut down on the run, he has looked below average (see A&M this year, and that was a bad defense). Bush give you so many more options on offense and plus, HE CAN START RIGHT NOW. we won't have to wait on him.

TEXANRED
04-04-2006, 09:29 AM
I'd take Vince before Reggie in a heartbeat.

As the QB goes, so does the team.

With that thought I would take Lienart who is the best overall and most NFL ready QB in the draft.

Lucky
04-04-2006, 10:42 AM
In 1988, Troy Aikman's last year in college, what QB won the heisman trophy?
Barry Sanders won the Heisman in '88. Peete finished 2nd.

dalemurphy
04-04-2006, 11:33 AM
Barry Sanders won the Heisman in '88. Peete finished 2nd.


thank you.. that's right. the point is still valid regarding the 2 Qbs however.

kbourda
04-04-2006, 12:31 PM
I honestly don't buy into the whole 'conspiracy'. Anyone who really thinks an NFL team isn't going to put a lot of thought into deciding who they take in the first round, much less the 1st overall pick, is kidding themselves. They're preparing to pay a substantial amount of money to one player, and NFL teams want to make a wise investment.

I'm not sure what the front office is thinking, but if, after their evaluations, they're leaning toward taking Bush then so be it. Just because the player they decided would be the better pick for their franchise isn't your player doesn't mean they didn't put a lot of thought into the pick. They simple evaluated the players differently than you did. Could they be wrong? Of course. Could you be wrong? Also a possibility. Only time will tell, but to accuse them of not putting a lot of thought into it sounds a lot more like sour grapes than anything else.


Never once did I say there was a conspiracy. I was simply giving my opinion. I just call it how I see it. If you think otherwise, so be it. Also, I noticed you made the comment about a "wise" investment. I have a question. How would selecting Young be a "wise" investment? You and I both know no franchise would tie that much money in one position. It just does not seem logical to do that. So now do you see where I am coming from? It's not "sour grapes", it's reality.

Dr. Toro
04-04-2006, 12:40 PM
Never once did I say there was a conspiracy. I was simply giving my opinion. I just call it how I see it. If you think otherwise, so be it. Also, I noticed you made the comment about a "wise" investment. I have a question. How would selecting Young be a "wise" investment? You and I both know no franchise would tie that much money in one position. It just does not seem logical to do that. So now do you see where I am coming from? It's not "sour grapes", it's reality.

Tying up that money in the running back position isn't wise either.

KSig44
04-04-2006, 12:43 PM
No, but you can play more than one RB at a time. Justifies the money a bit more.

Johnny Utah
04-04-2006, 12:53 PM
Never once did I say there was a conspiracy. I was simply giving my opinion. I just call it how I see it. If you think otherwise, so be it. Also, I noticed you made the comment about a "wise" investment. I have a question. How would selecting Young be a "wise" investment? You and I both know no franchise would tie that much money in one position. It just does not seem logical to do that. So now do you see where I am coming from? It's not "sour grapes", it's reality.

You're absolutely correct and I think the Texans are doing the same thing.

Does anybody remember at the beginning of the VY/Bush debate Bob Allen asked Casserly about Young and Carr, and Casserly basically said that we already have a QB. Implying that the Texans would have no interest in drafting VY.

Then the following day sports radio stations were getting blown up by callers ripping Casserly for not even willing to look at VY. Even our ex-mayor's wife, Elyse Lanier, phoned in to 610am outraged by Casserly's comments.

Immediately following all this damage control came in and Bob McNair & Casserly started stating that their mind is not made up, and they will be looking at every possibility wheter it be Bush, Young, or a trade down.

All of this is a show. IMO

texasguy346
04-04-2006, 01:26 PM
Never once did I say there was a conspiracy. I was simply giving my opinion. I just call it how I see it. If you think otherwise, so be it. Also, I noticed you made the comment about a "wise" investment. I have a question. How would selecting Young be a "wise" investment? You and I both know no franchise would tie that much money in one position. It just does not seem logical to do that. So now do you see where I am coming from? It's not "sour grapes", it's reality.

As Dr. Toro pointed out it isn't exactly a 'wise' investment to devote a ton of money to the RB position either, but when I said wise investment I'm referring more to investing the money in a player who the team feels is better suited to help them succeed.

Nearly any player worthy of the #1 pick that the Texans could take would mean putting a lot of money at a particular position. Mario Williams would mean we have a lot of money invested at the DE position with Weaver, Babin, Kalu, & Peek. Picking D'Brick would mean investing a lot of money in the OT position since Wade has a big contract & I believe Pitts just signed a new contract last offseason.

Sure CC and Kubiak invested a lot of money in Carr, but all that happened after the Rose Bowl. So that means that after the scouting department had a chance to review VY's game tape, and after his phenomenal performace at the Rose Bowl the Texans decided to pick up Carr's option. If the Texans had signed Carr to a multi-year extension prior to the 2005 season then I could see where you'd have a case, because they would've decided on sticking with Carr before VY was considered a possible draft prospect. Even if that was the case though you'd have a weak argument because the Texans just re-signed DD to a pretty big contract prior to last season, and are still likely to pick another RB who'll carry a considerable price tag. Again it's not wise to invest a lot of money in one position. That being said it still happens in the NFL, and it's going to happen with the Texans no matter who they pick.

Dr. Toro
04-04-2006, 03:01 PM
The kid ran a 4.3 electric, which = to a 4.28 handheld. I have heard from ESPN, John Clayton, Mort and NFL Network. NFL Network reported that he did 25 reps not 24 on 225lbs.

Nice try:cool:
I have not seen any reports of a handheld 4.28. That was Gil Brandt's conjecture in an article which incorrectly reported it was run on turf. Pasquarelli's account had handheld times of 4.37 and 4.41... that's on a track. It means he's really really fast, certainly fast enough.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532

PoleCat
04-04-2006, 04:15 PM
The kid ran a 4.3 electric, which = to a 4.28 handheld. I have heard from ESPN, John Clayton, Mort and NFL Network. NFL Network reported that he did 25 reps not 24 on 225lbs.

Nice try:cool:

You got this backward, dude. Handheld ADDS 8/10s of a second over electric. So the 4.37 electric is 4.45 handheld. The 8/10s second extra in handheld is to allow for the eye/hand delay in the timer.

threetoedpete
04-04-2006, 04:37 PM
The kid ran a 4.3 electric, which = to a 4.28 handheld. I have heard from ESPN, John Clayton, Mort and NFL Network. NFL Network reported that he did 25 reps not 24 on 225lbs.

Nice try:cool:

Agreed. I have just felt always, the best course of action was to tie up big money in the lock at Left offensive tackel. Writting is on the wall though...I think unless they get a block buster deal, we'll all be buying RB jerseys come May. I just don't see anyone belowus willing to give up multipul picks for Bush. Too many warts. I still have doubts about his inside running ablity, but if they fix the line, (big if) all he'll have to do is get through the first wave. I have doubts about his blitz pick up...we'll see. Bush fits Cubes' " were one great player away to get into contention" thinking. He'll also be a bone for the season ticket holders. Won't say it's a done deal...but it looks like it's 99.99% a done deal.
And I also think that they should try to move Mathis now while he still has significant value. Send feelers out befor the draft. If they can pick up another pick for him , rounds 5-3, they should deal him. Reggie Bush makes Mathis redundant. For the kind of money he will command...they should want him out there early and often. Lot of good football palyers will be floating around in those mid rounds. We still need a bunch of them. JMHO. Might work out.

chuckm
04-04-2006, 04:38 PM
I think unless they get a block buster deal, we'll all be buying RB jerseys come May. I just don't see anyone belowus willing to give up multipul picks for Bush. Too many warts.


Please list the warts .....

thunderkyss
04-04-2006, 04:44 PM
Yeah, VY was a great college QB, much like Charlie Ward, Tommy Frazier, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware, David Klingler and the list goes on.

Don't forget Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, J.P. Lossman, John Journeyman Kitna, Rob Johnson, Heath Shuler, Vinny Testeverde(man I loved watching him @ the U), Kerry Collins, Rick Mirer, David Klinger.... the list goes on, and on.



With that thought I would take Lienart who is the best overall and most NFL ready QB in the draft.

not in arm strength, mobility and speed he isn't.......

jgite
04-04-2006, 05:27 PM
Yeah, VY was a great college QB, much like Charlie Ward, Tommy Frazier, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware, David Klingler and the list goes on. He is fast, but running will be a non factor in the NFL. Michael Vick is somewhat effective and he runs a sub 4.4, Vy will get his teeth knocked in the minute he crosses the line of scrimmage. He has never won a game against a good to average team by purely sitting in the pocket and throwing, his speed is always a threat. Games he has been shut down on the run, he has looked below average (see A&M this year, and that was a bad defense). Bush give you so many more options on offense and plus, HE CAN START RIGHT NOW. we won't have to wait on him.

Reggie Bush is a great COLLEGE running back and Matt Leinart is a great COLLEGE quarterback. So the same thing applies to them as well. Bush is not gonna start automatically. You basically want to give him the job before he even hits the rookie mini-camp.

P.S. Vince beat a top twenty defense on the road with his arm (tOSU). He threw the game winning TD in a very good spot.

el toro
04-04-2006, 05:45 PM
You're absolutely correct and I think the Texans are doing the same thing.

Does anybody remember at the beginning of the VY/Bush debate Bob Allen asked Casserly about Young and Carr, and Casserly basically said that we already have a QB. Implying that the Texans would have no interest in drafting VY.

Then the following day sports radio stations were getting blown up by callers ripping Casserly for not even willing to look at VY. Even our ex-mayor's wife, Elyse Lanier, phoned in to 610am outraged by Casserly's comments.

Immediately following all this damage control came in and Bob McNair & Casserly started stating that their mind is not made up, and they will be looking at every possibility wheter it be Bush, Young, or a trade down.

All of this is a show. IMO


The Texans should make draft decisions based upon how the man on the street feels about drafting the local boy made good. That's been the Young camp's argument from day one. Frankly I am looking forward to April 29th so we can get past these asinine debates in which the Young camp tries to make a Young selection out to be about something else.

We should be glad the front office is not willing to go with the marketing dept's pick and take Young. Young alone would give them a fan base in Central Texas with thousands of burnt orange wearing goobers to exploit.

MorKnolle
04-04-2006, 07:09 PM
I have not seen any reports of a handheld 4.28. That was Gil Brandt's conjecture in an article which incorrectly reported it was run on turf. Pasquarelli's account had handheld times of 4.37 and 4.41... that's on a track. It means he's really really fast, certainly fast enough.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532
You got this backward, dude. Handheld ADDS 8/10s of a second over electric. So the 4.37 electric is 4.45 handheld. The 8/10s second extra in handheld is to allow for the eye/hand delay in the timer.

Handhelds don't necessarily add 8/10 of second, that is the theoretical reaction time of a human time keeper, but at the same time a human could over-anticipate and stop the timer before the runner actually gets across the line and make the time lower than it really is, and an electric timer is still started by a human on the runner's first movement, it just stops on its own once he crosses the finish line. Either way these times are somewhat inaccurate, as evidenced by the varying measurements with each individual run. Generally the fastest time that was recorded is the one reported (in Bush's case his 4.33, in Vince's case the 4.57, and for anyone else that ran at their pro day or the Combine. If you wanted a truly accurate time then you'd record it onto tape and freeze-frame it to get the exact moment they start and cross the end line, and it would probably add .2-.4 seconds for every single runner. The 40 is not an exact science, it is an attempt to measure a player's explosiveness and speed. It can reveal a decent amount about a player's athleticism, but frequently too much attention is put into the 40 time that is in reality pretty inaccurate.

thunderkyss
04-04-2006, 08:30 PM
The Texans should make draft decisions based upon how the man on the street feels about drafting the local boy made good. That's been the Young camp's argument from day one.


Ok, I'm marking el toro down as."Vince Young has no talent, and will not amount to anything in the NFL"

Hervoyel
04-04-2006, 08:48 PM
would you rather wait upon DRAFT DAY 2006..........this medication has me indeed relaxed........
MONARCH

This is all just silly but I have to admit that I'm going to be looking hard for you come draft day. I can't wait for that first pick to be announced.

MONARCH
04-04-2006, 08:58 PM
This is all just silly but I have to admit that I'm going to be looking hard for you come draft day. I can't wait for that first pick to be announced.

Greetings great pal...

I will be more than happy to make your acquaintance......for this is indeed what great pals do, right....?

.......but then again, great pal Hervoyel.......I am MOST CERTAIN THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO LOCATE ME IMMEDIATELY! For I'll be the one sporting that BURNT ORANGE GLOW........

Our native son VY is heading home to play.....
MONARCH

Kaiser Toro
04-04-2006, 09:09 PM
Brick Tamland: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident!

Kaiser Toro
04-04-2006, 09:17 PM
What?!

It was a high brow mash up of a cinema quote sampled into a real time medium.

Dr. Toro
04-05-2006, 01:23 PM
http://dailynews.com/sports/ci_3673241

"Tailback Reggie Bush and safety Darnell Bing drew cheers for their 40-yard dash times during Sunday's Pro Day workouts at USC, but those marks are not being used by NFL teams for draft preparations.

Bush ran the 40 in 4.33 seconds, according to the electronic-timing system used at Cromwell Field while Bing ran it in 4.53 seconds.

NFL teams, who hand-timed the races, gave Bush times ranging from 4.41 to 4.44"


Specifics regarding the Bush pro-day. So now an LA paper is reporting it was between 4.41 and 4.44 on a track, in track spikes, handtimed. I will not doubt his football speed, but the difference between a 4.3 and 4.4 is notable, especially if the guy is 5'11 200. Guys in the combine ran on field turf in sneakers, and a lot of bigger backs run 4.4s. I am not saying Bush can't be a great running back, just that he isn't superhuman and will have to adjust his game considerably like everyone else.

KSig44
04-05-2006, 01:33 PM
You pro VY supporters might be "drunk as Cooter Brown on draft day" if VY is picked, but I will be "drunk as Cooter Brown" every day after until that failed experiment known as VY is cut off of the Texans roster.

Thank God bush will be the pick, you'all will just have to deal with it (as well as the rest of the NFL). Let the Titans suffer with Vince "Radio" Young and his inability to read a NFL defense, his inability to scramble with 4.57 speed, and his inability to read a playbook. His game is based around the offense planned for him, no NFL will do that. Well, maybe Atlanta. Players must be a cog in a NFL offense, not the other way around.

thunderkyss
04-05-2006, 01:37 PM
You pro VY supporters might be "drunk as Cooter Brown on draft day" if VY is picked, but I will be "drunk as Cooter Brown" every day after until that failed experiment known as VY is cut off of the Texans roster.

Thank God bush will be the pick, you'all will just have to deal with it (as well as the rest of the NFL). Let the Titans suffer with Vince "Radio" Young and his inability to read a NFL defense, his inability to scramble with 4.57 speed, and his inability to read a playbook. His game is based around the offense planned for him, no NFL will do that. Well, maybe Atlanta. Players must be a cog in a NFL offense, not the other way around.


hahahahahahaha :roflmao: hahahahahahhahahahahah

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

:twocents:

C Madd
04-05-2006, 01:40 PM
Brick Tamland: Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident!
Brick, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder.

Lucky
04-05-2006, 01:50 PM
NFL teams, who hand-timed the races, gave Bush times ranging from 4.41 to 4.44"

Specifics regarding the Bush pro-day. So now an LA paper is reporting it was between 4.41 and 4.44 on a track, in track spikes, handtimed. I will not doubt his football speed, but the difference between a 4.3 and 4.4 is notable, especially if the guy is 5'11 200. Guys in the combine ran on field turf in sneakers, and a lot of bigger backs run 4.4s. I am not saying Bush can't be a great running back, just that he isn't superhuman and will have to adjust his game considerably like everyone else.
I'm not going to suggest Bush won't have to "adjust" his game. Every rookie entering the league will. None more than Vince Young. But to suggest that hand timing is more accurate than electronic timing, as these NFL sources do, is absurd. I'm guessing these NFL scouts with their trusty stopwatch are descendants of the guys who a century ago proclaimed "The automobiles are just a flash in the pan. They'll never replace my horse and buggy."

Dr. Toro
04-05-2006, 02:03 PM
I'm not going to suggest Bush won't have to "adjust" his game. Every rookie entering the league will. None more than Vince Young. But to suggest that hand timing is more accurate than electronic timing, as these NFL sources do, is absurd. I'm guessing these NFL scouts with their trusty stopwatch are descendants of the guys who a century ago proclaimed "The automobiles are just a flash in the pan. They'll never replace my horse and buggy."

Further in the article it makes it sound like the scouts aren't willing to blindly trust the times calculated and reported by USC.

Lucky
04-05-2006, 10:19 PM
Further in the article it makes it sound like the scouts aren't willing to blindly trust the times calculated and reported by USC.
So these scouts are techno-phobic & paranoid. Great combination.