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GP
04-01-2006, 01:52 PM
Just thinking about something:

Even with all the moves we're making, and regardless of the "potential" for our team, we still must overcome the "Carr Factor" that sadly has plagued this team.

The o line didn't block well (bad coaching? bad players? both?) and even when they did, Carr seemingly couldn't settle down to make the reads and go through his progressions correctly (shell-shocked? not as good as we thought? both?).

(1) O Line is getting upgraded with the addition of a very reliable center to help push back the surge up the middle that Carr was getting.

(2) The o line coaching is supposedly going to be better under the new regime.

(3) Solid TE who knows the new coach's system gives Carr a very reliable and dangerous target who can split the seams and make the big plays that the great TEs in this league are making.

(4) Possible addition of a solid # 2 Wr (Moulds) and perhaps the addition of a slot receiver (Pathon) coupled with AJ and Mathis could give the Texans a very uniquely gifted set of WRs.

(5) Either we get Bush who can play everything and might even challenge Kris Brown for kicking duties, or we trade the pick so we can make the addition of a very solid left tackle ('Brick) to guard David's blindside. Either way, we're getting a very talented player on offense who will start immediately.

All that's left is to see if Carr can succeed. It's practically all on his shoulders to make it work now. And I just sense that we have a full season of NFL football starting in September before ANYBODY gives us a second look. That means few stories on the sports programs, regardless of if we get Bush or not.

Face it: The NFL talking heads on FOX and CBS and ESPN will focus MORE on Carr and they will be scrutinizing his every single move this season. There will be pressur eon this guy from all angles because he has no room to point a finger or pass blame onto the coaches or players.

The "Carr Factor" is what this season is all about. Not the coaches. Not the new players. It's all riding on Carr, and he'll be in the biggest pressure cooker of his life. If you thought we hammered him hard this past season, it will pale in comparison to what will be said on these boards and around the country if the guy can't break our team out of the starting gates fast. The biggest game of his life, and our team's life, is the opening game of this coming season. I know he's a competitor, and competitors live for this type of stuff, but can you imagine what Carr will be thinking when he trots out onto the field for the first play of the year? He's gotta' be thinking that he's either about to become the QB he thinks he is, or he's going to be booed out of Texas if the game gets away from them. We'll all have knots in our stomachs that opening offensive drive.

Should make for good TV, eh?

Bobo
04-01-2006, 01:58 PM
(1) O Line is getting upgraded with the addition of a very reliable center to help push back the surge up the middle that Carr was getting.

So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 02:03 PM
Face it: The NFL talking heads on FOX and CBS and ESPN will focus MORE on Carr and they will be scrutinizing his every single move this season.

I don't think the national media gives a hoot about Carr, except for a passing mention when they have to talk about him in regards to looking at the entire NFL. The Texans at this point are non-entities outside Houston and most have made their assessment about Carr -- good, solid QB, very poor OL. Heck, a few weeks ago I was listening to a network review of the new NFL coaches and Kubiak wasn't even mentioned. He wasn't even an afterthought.

el toro
04-01-2006, 02:06 PM
So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.


That's also a 10 year vet who puts McKinney back in his correct position. You also have a HC and OC who know a thing or two about putting together lines that can run block and maintain a pocket.

HardKnockTexan
04-01-2006, 02:06 PM
So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.


The biggest improvement to our offensive line will be Sherman.

el toro
04-01-2006, 02:07 PM
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.

GP
04-01-2006, 02:16 PM
Carr is the key. Mark my words. It will be a weekly story, a saga, on the NFL sports shows. They'll paint him as the survivor of a shipwrecked team, the guy who fans gave up on...but who had the tenacity to hang tough with Kubiak and the calvary charging to his rescue. Or, he'll be painted as one of the biggest draft busts of all time, even bigger than Ryan Leaf...he'll be roasted by fans and the media will swoop down for the kill.

Mark my words. With all the new changes and free agency upgrades/draft upgrades...the story on the Texans will be Carr and how he does or does not lead this team.

Bradford couldn't hack it at WR. Some days we'd cheer the guy for making the big catch, then we'd flame him for not showing up at all on the easy ones.

Gaffney couldn't hack it at WR. We argued forever if he was really a number 2 WR in the NFL or if he just was on the edge and would never get over the top like we felt he could.

Billy Miller, at one time, was the guy the front office was lauding...and then he was cut. Hasn't really made a splash anywhere else, has he?

2006 will be pivotal year for our team, due in large part to how well or how poorly Carr leads this team. The failures will placed squarely upon Carr's shoulderpads...even if the failures can be proven to NOT be his fault.

It'll be a story.

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2006, 02:17 PM
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.

And the consensus for those wearing Carr-colored glasses is that he has done a great job and lived up to his extension. :rolleyes:

Anyone could have posted up the numbers that he did with a porous line these last four years, and get this they would have counted against the cap in the neighborhood of 1 million per year, not 7.

Does he have potential? Yes. Does he deserve a second chance? Probably. Has he earned the second chance at 8 mil per? Not in my opinion.

axman40
04-01-2006, 02:18 PM
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.
I wonder how many Texans game have they watched?

:cool:

bad
04-01-2006, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by el toro
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.

I wonder how many Texans game have they watched?

:cool: Considering that the consensus is that of NFL people who get paid for their knowledge and objectivity I would assume they've watched plenty.

Anyone with a semblance of objectivity would have to be disappointed in Carr's performance to date. He was a #1 overall draft pick. Still it's difficult to judge because he's taken a beating like no other QB I can remember, and I'm roughly the same age as the Earth.

Hopefully the beatings will stop after morale improves (and personnel improves and coaching improves) and then it'll be much easier to judge the man. If Carr gets a real chance to succeed this year and he fails, then let the hammer fall.

GP
04-01-2006, 02:30 PM
Face it: We have ownership that is dedicated to giving a respectable player every chance in the world to show their worth.

It's why Capers was kept all year long.

It's why Carr was given a bloated deal even though he didn't truly earn it, which is debateable because the line was pretty bad most of the season until the end when it firmed up a little.

Carr should have been released to test the market, with the Texans matching the offer to retain him...which "could have" resulted in a figure less than $8 mill. And we'd definitely have just as highly a paid QB as we now have with Carr...it would have been Brees, etc., or worse...it could have been Vince Young.

We got Carr. End of story, whether it was handled right or not. It was done. They are giving him a chance, and we'll certainly know after this season if it was the right move or not. But it IS definitely all on his shoulders. All of it. Whereas last year, it wasn't 100% his fault.

el toro
04-01-2006, 02:38 PM
Staying with Carr and using free agency and the draft to improve the offensive talent and maximize Kubiak's scheme is not a bad strategy. If the team opted to drop Carr and then pickup a rookie QB with the top pick then we'd be looking at 2 to 3 more seasons of sucking, guaranteed. At least now we have a real shot at winning...soon. If Kubiak (not anyone else) feels that Carr has that ability to lead a top flight offense then perhaps we shouldn't dismiss that out of hand.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2006, 02:39 PM
Or, he'll be painted as one of the biggest draft busts of all time, even bigger than Ryan Leaf...he'll be roasted by fans and the media will swoop down for the kill.

Ok, thats a little extreme don't you think. If Carr did bust he would be NOWHERE even close to the faliure that was Ryan Leaf.

Ryan Leaf was a guy that many felt was better than Peyton Manning comming out of the draft.

He is a guy that had sophmoric explosions at the media and just could flat out not play the game, His comp.% avg was 48% and his TD to INT. ratio was 14 to 36.

As Carr sits right now, he is nowhere near Ryan Leaf

Ryan Leaf is out of the league, Carr would easily get another job somewhere else.

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Staying with Carr and using free agency and the draft to improve the offensive talent and maximize Kubiak's scheme is not a bad strategy. If the team opted to drop Carr and then pickup a rookie QB with the top pick then we'd be looking at 2 to 3 more seasons of sucking, guaranteed. At least now we have a real shot at winning...soon. If Kubiak (not anyone else) feels that Carr has that ability to lead a top flight offense then perhaps we shouldn't dismiss that out of hand.

This is the problem. Most people assume that since one want to get rid of Carr that means draft a QB? No get a journeyman QB take that 6 million delta and spend and draft on the deficincies. Superstar QB's have a bigger effect on cap mismanagement than they do championships in the salary cap era.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 02:45 PM
Carr should have been released to test the market, with the Texans matching the offer to retain him...which "could have" resulted in a figure less than $8 mill. And we'd definitely have just as highly a paid QB as we now have with Carr...it would have been Brees, etc., or worse...it could have been Vince Young.

If Carr was released, there would have been a ton of teams out to get him and it would have cost much, much more to re-sign him. You underestimate the value of David Carr. This guy threw for more than 3,000 yards one year when the OL was just as bad as it is now. Carr may never be Peyton Manning, but there's only one of those guys around. The rest of the QBs in the NFL are pretty average for the most part and two of those QBs led teams to the Super Bowl this past season.

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2006, 02:46 PM
If Carr was released, there would have been a ton of teams out to get him and it would have cost much, much more to re-sign him. You underestimate the value of David Carr. This guy threw for more than 3,000 yards one year when the OL was just as bad as it is now. Carr may never be Peyton Manning, but there's only one of those guys around. The rest of the QBs in the NFL are pretty average for the most part and two of those QBs led teams to the Super Bowl this past season.

You are crazy if you think anyone would have signed him for what the extension was.

el toro
04-01-2006, 02:47 PM
This is the problem. Most people assume that since one want to get rid of Carr that means draft a QB? No get a journeyman QB take that 6 million delta and spend and draft on the deficincies. Superstar QB's have a bigger effect on cap mismanagement than they do championships in the salary cap era.

They had a journeyman QB as the backup last season. So you commit yourself to a longer turnaround process by going that route.

bigTEXan8
04-01-2006, 02:48 PM
I'm one of the biggest Carr Homers there is on this board. I saw him play at Fresno State, became a Texans fan because they drafted him, have an autograph of him at Miami during the Texans 2nd season.

However, how can you fault someone when the oragnization he's played with has given him little to nothing to play with? We, as fans, know all the reasons, no need to go over them again for the billionth timie. Has Carr made bad plays, yeah, and I'll be the first to admit it.But what I think some people fail to see is that a player can only play as well as the rest of the team.

But I will say this, if Carr can't help turn this team around within the next two years, then get rid of him...fine by me. I understand that if someone is producing, you have to remove them. Now, finally, after the first four years, the organization appears to be putting an actual team around him. So, if Carr doesn't succeed with the actual chance of being able to succeed, then fine...boot him.

el toro
04-01-2006, 02:49 PM
You are crazy if you think anyone would have signed him for what the extension was.

So we have a HC now that wants to give him a shot at being what he can be behind an improved line and offensive playbook. That extension just might end up being $ well spent. I might feel differently if Carr received that extension to quarterback Capers' offense for 3 more seasons. But he didn't.

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2006, 02:54 PM
So we have a HC now that wants to give him a shot at being what he can be behind an improved line and offensive playbook. That extension just might end up being $ well spent. I might feel differently if Carr received that extension to quarterback Capers' offense for 3 more seasons. But he didn't.

It is simply called Fair Market Value. Why spend extra for no value added?

GP
04-01-2006, 02:57 PM
Ok, thats a little extreme don't you think. If Carr did bust he would be NOWHERE even close to the faliure that was Ryan Leaf.

Ryan Leaf was a guy that many felt was better than Peyton Manning comming out of the draft.

He is a guy that had sophmoric explosions at the media and just could flat out not play the game, His comp.% avg was 48% and his TD to INT. ratio was 14 to 36.

As Carr sits right now, he is nowhere near Ryan Leaf

Ryan Leaf is out of the league, Carr would easily get another job somewhere else.

Carr is potentially a bigger bust than Leaf because Leaf never really played consistently as long as Carr has. Carr's had four full seasons, and Leaf was basically injured and traded around most of his career where he never was playing in a full time situation. Leaf's temper got the best of him, we'll never get to see if his game could have risen to the expectations. Carr; however, has played a lot and hasn't done much. Not saying I don't like him..just that he hasn't done better than we expected.

el toro
04-01-2006, 02:59 PM
Carr is potentially a bigger bust than Leaf because Leaf never really played consistently as long as Carr has. Carr's had four full seasons, and Leaf was basically injured and traded around most of his career where he never was playing in a full time situation. Leaf's temper got the best of him, we'll never get to see if his game could have risen to the expectations. Carr; however, has played a lot and hasn't done much. Not saying I don't like him..just that he hasn't done better than we expected.


To me a bust is someone who is out of the league by year 3 of his career. Carr is nowhere near the bust that Leaf was.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2006, 03:06 PM
You are crazy if you think anyone would have signed him for what the extension was.

I think the reason why they didn't let Carr hit the open market wasn't because they were afraid a ton of teams would be after him, but rather a team with a good program would swoop in and talk him into taking less money and less sacks to play for them.

There has to have been a couple of sunday nights where Carr went home and said to himself, "Why the hell am I playing for this team". After all the sacks he's taken over 4 years I wouldn't be surprised that if he did hit the open market, he would want to play elsewhere.

Having said that he has to be the happiest person in Houston after all the moves we've made so far this offseason.

Texas
04-01-2006, 03:09 PM
So now we see if carr was a bust or not.

Jwwillis
04-01-2006, 03:14 PM
Just thinking about something:

Even with all the moves we're making, and regardless of the "potential" for our team, we still must overcome the "Carr Factor" that sadly has plagued this team.

The o line didn't block well (bad coaching? bad players? both?) and even when they did, Carr seemingly couldn't settle down to make the reads and go through his progressions correctly (shell-shocked? not as good as we thought? both?).

(1) O Line is getting upgraded with the addition of a very reliable center to help push back the surge up the middle that Carr was getting.

(2) The o line coaching is supposedly going to be better under the new regime.

(3) Solid TE who knows the new coach's system gives Carr a very reliable and dangerous target who can split the seams and make the big plays that the great TEs in this league are making.

(4) Possible addition of a solid # 2 Wr (Moulds) and perhaps the addition of a slot receiver (Pathon) coupled with AJ and Mathis could give the Texans a very uniquely gifted set of WRs.

(5) Either we get Bush who can play everything and might even challenge Kris Brown for kicking duties, or we trade the pick so we can make the addition of a very solid left tackle ('Brick) to guard David's blindside. Either way, we're getting a very talented player on offense who will start immediately.

All that's left is to see if Carr can succeed. It's practically all on his shoulders to make it work now. And I just sense that we have a full season of NFL football starting in September before ANYBODY gives us a second look. That means few stories on the sports programs, regardless of if we get Bush or not.

Face it: The NFL talking heads on FOX and CBS and ESPN will focus MORE on Carr and they will be scrutinizing his every single move this season. There will be pressur eon this guy from all angles because he has no room to point a finger or pass blame onto the coaches or players.

The "Carr Factor" is what this season is all about. Not the coaches. Not the new players. It's all riding on Carr, and he'll be in the biggest pressure cooker of his life. If you thought we hammered him hard this past season, it will pale in comparison to what will be said on these boards and around the country if the guy can't break our team out of the starting gates fast. The biggest game of his life, and our team's life, is the opening game of this coming season. I know he's a competitor, and competitors live for this type of stuff, but can you imagine what Carr will be thinking when he trots out onto the field for the first play of the year? He's gotta' be thinking that he's either about to become the QB he thinks he is, or he's going to be booed out of Texas if the game gets away from them. We'll all have knots in our stomachs that opening offensive drive.

Should make for good TV, eh?


John Elway

Jim Plunkett

Terry Bradshaw


All QB's that had tremendious potential but didnt succed till they had the right personel around them.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2006, 03:18 PM
Carr is potentially a bigger bust than Leaf because Leaf never really played consistently as long as Carr has.

:confused: does that make sense.

Carr's had four full seasons, and Leaf was basically injured and traded around most of his career where he never was playing in a full time situation. Leaf's temper got the best of him, we'll never get to see if his game could have risen to the expectations. Carr; however, has played a lot and hasn't done much. Not saying I don't like him..just that he hasn't done better than we expected.

Leaf wasn't really injured as much as you portray, but rather yanked from the lineup, because again he couldn't play and he wasn't traded around for most of his career, he was only traded once (again because he couldn't play and SD knew it) to Dallas who at that time (and still do) had a carousel at the QB position trying to find a replacement for Aikman and again after that shot he played his was out of the league.

Check out this list of QB busts, Carr isn't even on the list

http://QB busts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_Draft_busts)

and the reason it isn't is because anybody with half a brain knows it is impossible for a kid to come in from college and produce behind a line as horrid as ours. Not only has it prevented him from success, but also from development.

If our line actually has a good year next year and Carr doesn't show improvement, then you'll see his name added to that list, but it'll still be nowhere near Leaf's

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2006, 03:21 PM
John Elway

Jim Plunkett

Terry Bradshaw


All QB's that had tremendious potential but didnt succed till they had the right personel around them.

Right, but the teams did not have to worry about a salary cap. By the time Elway was sunsettting so was his contract. His first contract was 12 million over 6 years. We not only pay Carr #1 money for the first four years, but will now for another three. This is a lot of money to have no return on investment. Moreover, the total cost of ownership is way to high in my opinion as he needs more resources to be successful.

bad
04-01-2006, 03:22 PM
John Elway

Jim Plunkett

Terry Bradshaw


All QB's that had tremendious potential but didnt succed till they had the right personel around them. Excellent points.

I'd take it a step farther...name one quarterback with tremendous potential that DID succeed with a sorry team around him. I guarantee you'll not find one who succeeded while setting records for being sacked.

Anyone remember Archie Manning? Geez was that guy good, and his will to win was matched only by the sadness of his failure to do so because his team stunk.

Erratic Assassin
04-01-2006, 03:40 PM
So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.

We are years away from being a decent team so it makes no sense to be picking up all these old free agents. By the time we turn this thing around they will be retired.

I don't know why everyone thinks that Flanagan is our savior. He's not going to be doing us any good injured on the sidelines. Even if he were to get healthier with age, there's the entire right side of our line that's being overlooked for some reason.

The "McKinney was a horrible center last year, but he will be an awesome guard" sentiment has me scratching my head too. The best lineman we have is Chester "false start" Pitts and that doesn't bode well for the success of our line.

el toro
04-01-2006, 03:44 PM
eh, just kill yourselves now and avoid the pain of being a fan.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 04:12 PM
eh, just kill yourselves now and avoid the pain of being a fan.

Failure to deal with the points of the posts duly noted.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 04:13 PM
We are years away from being a decent team so it makes no sense to be picking up all these old free agents. By the time we turn this thing around they will be retired.

I don't know why everyone thinks that Flanagan is our savior. He's not going to be doing us any good injured on the sidelines. Even if he were to get healthier with age, there's the entire right side of our line that's being overlooked for some reason.

The "McKinney was a horrible center last year, but he will be an awesome guard" sentiment has me scratching my head too. The best lineman we have is Chester "false start" Pitts and that doesn't bode well for the success of our line.

Finally some traces of intelligence on this board. :yahoo:

Bobo
04-01-2006, 04:16 PM
Carr is potentially a bigger bust than Leaf because Leaf never really played consistently as long as Carr has. Carr's had four full seasons, and Leaf was basically injured and traded around most of his career where he never was playing in a full time situation. Leaf's temper got the best of him, we'll never get to see if his game could have risen to the expectations. Carr; however, has played a lot and hasn't done much. Not saying I don't like him..just that he hasn't done better than we expected.

Leaf didn't play consistently because, well, he stunk up the field. He lost his temper because he was criticized due to his ineffectiveness. Carr has played a lot because he is pretty good.

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 04:19 PM
I definetly agree that if he doesnt produce next year that he will have a lot of explaining to do. I personally have had a lot of faith in his "potential", but I know he hasnt had the ability to grow. With Dom Capers and an extremely double-teamed AJ, Carr couldnt get much done EVEN IF we had a better OL. I believe that with Kubiak's vision and experience we should see a long expected bloom from our young Carr. I do agree with Erratic Assassin that Flanagan is not necessarily a "savior", but he will help, none-the-less.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 04:22 PM
I definetly agree that if he doesnt produce next year that he will have a lot of explaining to do. I personally have had a lot of faith in his "potential", but I know he hasnt had the ability to grow. With Dom Capers and an extremely double-teamed AJ, Carr couldnt get much done EVEN IF we had a better OL. I believe that with Kubiak's vision and experience we should see a long expected bloom from our young Carr. I do agree with Erratic Assassin that Flanagan is not necessarily a "savior", but he will help, none-the-less.

If the OL cuts back a lot on sacks, then that may be the case. But remember, Carr did get the job done in 2004 so I don't know what everybody is so anti-Carr about. If given the proper protection, he'll do just as well as any NFL QB.

aj.
04-01-2006, 04:26 PM
John Elway

Jim Plunkett

Terry Bradshaw


All QB's that had tremendious potential but didnt succed till they had the right personel around them.

Not sure I would include Elway on your list unless you're talking strictly championships. He came into the league in '83 and didn't see a losing season until his 8th year in the league. That's success from the get-go in my opinion.

DominatorDavis
04-01-2006, 04:26 PM
Carr is the key. Mark my words. It will be a weekly story, a saga, on the NFL sports shows. They'll paint him as the survivor of a shipwrecked team, the guy who fans gave up on...but who had the tenacity to hang tough with Kubiak and the calvary charging to his rescue. Or, he'll be painted as one of the biggest draft busts of all time, even bigger than Ryan Leaf...he'll be roasted by fans and the media will swoop down for the kill.

Mark my words. With all the new changes and free agency upgrades/draft upgrades...the story on the Texans will be Carr and how he does or does not lead this team.

Bradford couldn't hack it at WR. Some days we'd cheer the guy for making the big catch, then we'd flame him for not showing up at all on the easy ones.

Gaffney couldn't hack it at WR. We argued forever if he was really a number 2 WR in the NFL or if he just was on the edge and would never get over the top like we felt he could.

Billy Miller, at one time, was the guy the front office was lauding...and then he was cut. Hasn't really made a splash anywhere else, has he?

2006 will be pivotal year for our team, due in large part to how well or how poorly Carr leads this team. The failures will placed squarely upon Carr's shoulderpads...even if the failures can be proven to NOT be his fault.

It'll be a story.


2 initial thoughts and then a comment. Your point is duley noted. I also think that it is just a tad over the top. Here's why.

Most analyst consider Carr's sack total when being critical of him. My guess is that they will take that factor into consideration again if his sack numbers are ridiculiously high again this year. How can you expect a guy to perform if he is on his back every other passing down? The line has to play up to its potential.

Some deeper questions to consider then just Carr success/failure in the media's eyes is - why did Capers get selected to start this franchise over anyone else? And why is Kubiak in 2006 now in command of this team?

What are - and were, Bob McNair's needs for this football team. Back in 2002 Bob needed a guy who knew how put an expansion franchise on the map. Capers had done that in Carolina and Jacksonville. Bob McNair said it time and time again, "Our coach has experience in putting together an expansion team." And it seemed that McNair took some comfort in that idea about his new coach.

When we jump forward to 2006, what are McNair's needs now? He fired Palmer after the second game. He then fired almost the entire coaching staff, including the head coach, after a miserable season. But Palmer went first. One of McNair's highest needs for this team is to have the offense produce under a competent coaching staff and with an effective system. That's what Kubiak is here for.

All that has happened is that McNair is more aware today of the needs of his football team. Capers is a great defensive minded coach who can assemble a hodge podge of players and call it a team. Kubiak already has a working base to start off his head coaching career with so his responsibilities will be to get more out of the players that are already here. Namely Carr and the offensive line.

Kubiak thinks and believes that he can work with DC. He likes what he sees in him and our new head coach is known throughout the NFL as an excellent judge of QB talent. Carr will improve because the ownership has been intentional with the business moves that they are doing this off-season. Ownership has either made decisions to protect Carr, or make sure that Carr has more of his passes caught by quality recievers, or to make sure that our QB is immersed in competent quarterback coaching.

And anyone who is more worried about what the media's take on the preformance of Carr looks like, could consider the weight some of the bigger things that are happening to this organization.

~Dom

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 04:32 PM
Dom Capers was exactly what the Texans needed for immediately joining the NFL. He understood how to make an expansion team function, and that came from his more conservative aspects. But we are beyond the point of needing a simplistic offense. Kubiak will at least let us know whether or not it is time for the Texans to shed the conservative and head toward a pass-oriented offense. I may be completely wrong, but I think its this type of risk that truely makes a modern NFL team successful.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 04:41 PM
Dom Capers was exactly what the Texans needed for immediately joining the NFL. He understood how to make an expansion team function, and that came from his more conservative aspects. But we are beyond the point of needing a simplistic offense. Kubiak will at least let us know whether or not it is time for the Texans to shed the conservative and head toward a pass-oriented offense. I may be completely wrong, but I think its this type of risk that truely makes a modern NFL team successful.

Conservative offenses win SBs. Teams that run the ball successfully and eat up huge chunks of yardage without a lot of flamboyancy do very well. A pass-oriented offense for this team with no protection will be only more of a failure and could result in Carr being hurt for a long, long time. I have no problem with conservative offenses. They win championships. Look at the Bears -- their QB was awful this year and they had a futile passing game but they did very well. But you have to have the bodies in the trenches for it to happen.

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2006, 04:44 PM
Conservative offenses win SBs. Teams that run the ball successfully and eat up huge chunks of yardage without a lot of flamboyancy do very well. A pass-oriented offense for this team with no protection will be only more of a failure and could result in Carr being hurt for a long, long time. I have no problem with conservative offenses. They win championships. Look at the Bears -- their QB was awful this year and they had a futile passing game but they did very well. But you have to have the bodies in the trenches for it to happen.

Since you like conservative offenses then you would not see the value in having your QB being the highest paid player on the team?

Carr Bombed
04-01-2006, 04:44 PM
We are years away from being a decent team so it makes no sense to be picking up all these old free agents. By the time we turn this thing around they will be retired.

I don't know why everyone thinks that Flanagan is our savior. He's not going to be doing us any good injured on the sidelines. Even if he were to get healthier with age, there's the entire right side of our line that's being overlooked for some reason.

Ok first of all we might not be years away from being a "decent team", atleast not in this league and I really don't understand this statement. Do you think, because you believe we are a bad team years away from respectability that we shouldn't be trying to get better. If you have a losers mentality you will always lose.

Second we aren't really signing old players, but players that have experience and in some cases know the system all ready

Thats the case with Flanagan, he has played under Sherman his whole career and already knows what to expect and other than LT the center is the most important position on the line. Is he the long term fix, no that could very well go to Hodgdon, who played very well for a rookie when healthy. (I'm really high on him)

As far as injuries Flanagan suffered injuries the first couple of years of his career, after that he was a rock until 2004 where he missed most of the season, in 2005 he missed just 2 games. We got him at a great price so theres really no risk there.

Now I'm guessing the other "old free agent" you speak of is Eric Moulds (if we get him).

You couldn't be further from the truth, at his position he isn't old at all.

J. Smith is Jax is 5 years older than moulds- still a solid player and #1 on the team.

Rod Smith- who played under Kubes,3 years older than moulds, still a solid player, #1 on his team.

Marvin Harrison- one year older than Moulds and is a top receiver in this league, #1 on his team (however in the system he plays in its more like 1a and 1b)

Moulds- a very solid player, whos last years #s are on par with his career avgs and is one of the most consistent players in the league, even with playing with multiple QBs and under multiple coaches. After watching last season, no matter what he always gets his #s and still has alot left in the tank and he is only being asked to be a #2 receiver.

This offseason wasn't about grabbing young, explosive, big name free agents (knocking the old guys I figure thats what you wanted), Because when you do that you end up only being able to grab a couple of guys and a couple of guys isn't going to help us.

It was about filling holes with SOLID, CHEAP, VETERAN players, who know the system (Putzier and Flanagan)

You can't beat the bargin we got Putzier, Flanagan, and Moulds at.

The "McKinney was a horrible center last year, but he will be an awesome guard" sentiment has me scratching my head too. The best lineman we have is Chester "false start" Pitts and that doesn't bode well for the success of our line.

That doesn't confuse me one bit. There was a reason why we grabbed Mckinney in the expansion draft, because he was such a good guard and lineman we felt he would be able to hold down the center spot.

Like I said above the most athletic positions on the line are LT and Center. As a Center you have to get the snap off and hold the line so your QB has room to STEP UP and throw in the pocket, if you get pushed back and lose your position the pocket is gone.

Being a LG you are playing inbetween the two most talented Olineman on your team and simply have to hold your own and thats all we are asking Mckinney to do know, which he should be able to do.

As for as the right side or the tackles, wait till after the draft and training camp before you trash the team, because this offseason is FAR from over.

about 2 1/2 weeks ago, people were throwing the FO under the bus about what they were doing in FA and now look, give it time, for the first time in our existence we are starting to make good decisions.

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 04:53 PM
I agree that the focus of the draft will be on several Defensive positions and definitely the O-line. Acting as if the FA was the "last hope" for curving last years O-line problems will get you no where. I know that it takes time for these prospects to gain experience in the NFL, but thats what next year is about, isnt it? New everything. Dont forget that with someone such as Reggie Bush behind Carr, the defense will be forced to watch for the run. They can't afford not to.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2006, 04:57 PM
Conservative offenses win SBs. Teams that run the ball successfully and eat up huge chunks of yardage without a lot of flamboyancy do very well. A pass-oriented offense for this team with no protection will be only more of a failure and could result in Carr being hurt for a long, long time. I have no problem with conservative offenses. They win championships. Look at the Bears -- their QB was awful this year and they had a futile passing game but they did very well. But you have to have the bodies in the trenches for it to happen.

I'm glad you like that type of offense, because so does Kubiak. He butters his bread on running the ball.

Damn Bobo you've made a couple of good points in this thread

I can't believe I'm going to say this :tomato:

I think I'm going to give you a rep point.

It might help alleviate all the neg. ones (not really)

try to keep up the good work.

GP
04-01-2006, 05:03 PM
Leaf didn't play consistently because, well, he stunk up the field. He lost his temper because he was criticized due to his ineffectiveness. Carr has played a lot because he is pretty good.

Leaf was scared and wouldn't allow himself to get out of the drama of the media enough to show what he could or couldn't do. Call it "pressure," or whatever...but the guy wa saddled with being the first pick and he had another guy getting drafted right behind him that was thought to be as good or better. When you're "the man" it's hard to settle down and produce. It's pressure.

Carr was picked numero uno for an expansion team. being number one is tough enough, but being number one on a new team that's never played or has no team history or chemistry is altogether difficult for a whole slew of reasons.

But.................now he's in his fourth year of being a consistent starter who has a track record of stats and W-L records to his name. Leaf never had that, never even got close to it. He imploded off the field and we never saw what he could have been had his off the field antics were held to a bare minimum and he just got out there and played. He admitted that the drama affected his game.

Carr has played, he's had the chance to show his stuff. Which is more embarassing as a pro QB: To have people say "Man, what IF Leaf had settled down off the field and got into a rhythm with the game itself? What if he had it to do all over again and he could just play and use his talent?" Or...if people say "David Carr looked like a great QB, was a nice guy, but he stunk as a QB..."

I'd rather people remember me as the QB who wasted his talent than the guy who had it together off the field but never really lived up to the hype.

But that's just me, and I think the story (as for as the Texans go) in the media this fall will be how this is the year we see if Carr was a bust at No. 1 overall. It'll happen. I promise.

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 05:06 PM
I'm glad you like that type of offense, because so does Kubiak. He butters his bread on running the ball.

Agreed. There is no doubt that Kubiak is extremely versatile. Elway had options downfield, a decent O-line and a rushing attack that could move the chains. My only disagreement of Bobo's philosophy is the idea that Kubiak hasnt worked to aide Carr in the future. The O-line will get worked on, there is no doubt. He's not as blind as one might think. But next year is new for everything. Especially the offense.

DominatorDavis
04-01-2006, 05:10 PM
But that's just me, and I think the story (as for as the Texans go) in the media this fall will be how this is the year we see if Carr was a bust at No. 1 overall. It'll happen. I promise.

And?

Give us a little more then just prognostication.

Are you trying to give us an omen about Carr? Please help me understand...

HoustonFrog
04-01-2006, 05:14 PM
And the consensus for those wearing Carr-colored glasses is that he has done a great job and lived up to his extension. :rolleyes:

Anyone could have posted up the numbers that he did with a porous line these last four years, and get this they would have counted against the cap in the neighborhood of 1 million per year, not 7.

Does he have potential? Yes. Does he deserve a second chance? Probably. Has he earned the second chance at 8 mil per? Not in my opinion.

Said perfectly. Especially for a guy whose stats were similar to Joey Harrington.

GP
04-01-2006, 05:16 PM
I'm saying: All we think the media will talk about is Bush, or Kubiak, or this and that according to all the neat little changes we've made...but when it's all boiled down, the talking heads on the NFL sport shows will break our team down to one simple focal point: What's the story with David Carr?

Now whether that's a good story or a negative story is up to Carr, and our team for the most part. I just can sense that he's going to be right in the middle of a lot of scrutiny and not just from our own fan base. It'll go national because the time is right. We've all wondered when the Texans will get more coverage and I think this is the year, and I think Carr is the story.

He'll be the CinderellaMan or the Goat. It's classic national media entertainment.

edo783
04-01-2006, 05:38 PM
Yup, DC has had to work with a lot of crap around him, especialy the fans. Worst fans in the NFL and the entire nation knows it. Here we have some folks who have NEVER liked DC for what ever reason and ******ed and moaned since day one about what mostly amounts to zip and now we have the UT/VY crowd jumping in (just check the dates of sign up, Jan 06 or later = UT). Then we have someone who ALWAYS makes cracks about the salary when he know dang well it is about the league standard and the team has been brand new from the ground up, poorly led and had crap for talent and scheme. Now we have people who say its a bust if he doesn't throw for 4K yards and 30 TDs with 70% and a 100 rating or some other such crap. That's just a setup so that they can continue to rag and beoch about DC. They all act like they perform perfectly at work themselves and no one ever affects the quality of their work or out come of their efforts....Sure, that's the ticket. Why not just start a "I hate Carr and want to knuke him, his family and all his relatives" that way all the Bioch boxes can go there and post all they want rather than starting disengenouse threads just to take shots at Carr. It is well known that he has the talent and hasn't had anything to work with, but of course these "FANS" know better. Is he perfect...HELL no, but if he has the O-line protecting to an NFL standard of 3.5 to 4.5 seconds CONSISTANTLy (85% of the time) and doesn't get it done in the next two years...kick'em to the curb and move on, but until then, your just Pizzing in the wind because he's here, he's the QB so give it up.

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 05:51 PM
Worst fans in the NFL and the entire nation knows it.

:offtopic

Hardly. Most people would agree that Bronco's fans are the worst in the league. Have you never watched a game? They Boo on EVERY PLAY. Im scared to see their forums.

DominatorDavis
04-01-2006, 05:54 PM
Yup, DC has had to work with a lot of crap around him, especialy the fans. Worst fans in the NFL and the entire nation knows it. Here we have some folks who have NEVER liked DC for what ever reason and ******ed and moaned since day one about what mostly amounts to zip and now we have the UT/VY crowd jumping in (just check the dates of sign up, Jan 06 or later = UT). Then we have someone who ALWAYS makes cracks about the salary when he know dang well it is about the league standard and the team has been brand new from the ground up, poorly led and had crap for talent and scheme. Now we have people who say its a bust if he doesn't throw for 4K yards and 30 TDs with 70% and a 100 rating or some other such crap. That's just a setup so that they can continue to rag and beoch about DC. They all act like they perform perfectly at work themselves and no one ever affects the quality of their work or out come of their efforts....Sure, that's the ticket. Why not just start a "I hate Carr and want to knuke him, his family and all his relatives" that way all the Bioch boxes can go there and post all they want rather than starting disengenouse threads just to take shots at Carr. It is well known that he has the talent and hasn't had anything to work with, but of course these "FANS" know better. Is he perfect...HELL no, but if he has the O-line protecting to an NFL standard of 3.5 to 4.5 seconds CONSISTANTLy (85% of the time) and doesn't get it done in the next two years...kick'em to the curb and move on, but until then, your just Pizzing in the wind because he's here, he's the QB so give it up.


I think that GP Shafer was talking more about the media attention that the success/failure of Carr will receive in the next coming year. We have also been discussing the needs of the Texans organization compared from year to year from the inception of this team all the way to this season.

This is not a Carr hater thread. Lets stay on course.

DatTexBoy
04-01-2006, 06:11 PM
Carr simply needs to devote more time to his craft instead of his family. That sounds bad but its true in this case. This business requires a lot of your time...it's a sacrifice...but is it really when you're making miliions upon millions of dollars.

GP
04-01-2006, 08:37 PM
Hulk, I am a children's pastor at a church in Amarillo, TX. I've been involved in volunteer ministry for about eight years prior to my current career in professional ministry.

I love God. I put God first in my life. But God honors hard work. And Carr studying film at home, where his wife and children live, is to say the least a bit comical. I can't get jack done when I'm home with my wife and kids here at the same time. I gotta' be up at 2 in the morning around my house to do some computer work for my job at the church JUST to keep my sanity due to the wife and kids wanting my attention.

One of the biggest gripes of people who don't "know" God or do not consistently worship God in their daily lives is this: We play the martyr card all the time. You are a great guy, Hulk. You have good things to say...but when you try to bail out Carr because in your mind he's being attacked JUST because he loves God and loves his family...it gives people a reason to roll their eyes and chuckle at us.

Dude needs to sacrifice this year, not just for his own sake, but for the gift that God has given him. Otherwise, he won't be the champion for Christ that we know he is. The Apostle Paul said to run the race to win the prize...not to come in second, or third, or last. He knew that Jesus cared about winning and about being a success. It's how we let our light shine for Christ, and it draws attention to the Creator who gave us the power to achieve and overcome.

So drop the God-hating excuse and accept the fact that he has not worked as hard as Kubiak is about to make him work. I posted a thread about a 2002 article at NFL.com on Kubiak and his relationship with then-Broncos QB Brian Griese. Kubiak eats, sleeps, and breathes football...expecially with his QBs. It;s why he is able to help them become better. It's his gift in life.

McNair got this guy on board the ship, and it's time Carr spent a little bit more time at the office. It'll pay off, and he, his family, and all of us will see the results if he'll sacrifice. Keep his perspective on the things of God and family the way it should, by all means, but mostly he needs to reverse the curse by giving up a little free time for three months out of the year.

God honors hard work.

Ibar_Harry
04-01-2006, 09:07 PM
Many are posting on this board about David and his faults. Well some of you are going to be ticked off at what I'm going to say, but it needs to be said. Casserly and David have a lot in common. What!! Yes, they both were done in by a very inept coaching staff.

Some of you are beginning to recognize that Casserly is doing a better job this year than you thought. Some of you want to give him more responsibilities than he deserves. He has simply gone out and gotten the players his coaching staff has requested. He is the facilitator and that's what he does best. He listens and tries to get what his coaching staff wants. Does he have an input, most certainly. But within reason and given sufficient reason he's going to get who the coaches want. Bob McNair has said that Casserly is not going to get anyone the coaching staff doesn't want, but that's nothing new. That has always been the case.

Now on to Carr and his problems with the previous coaching staff. To begin with Carr is always going to do what his coaches request. Some of you are criticizing Carr for a number of sacks credited because he ran out of bounds. What if that's what he was told to do? Why would that be? Well, if you are trying to find AJ, for example as your sole target, you might have been told to hang onto the ball at all cost because you might be able to find him before you are out of bounds. Once you throw the ball away you no longer have that option and you kill the clock. Remember, Capers and company were fanatics about controlling the clock and trying to run off as much time as possible. Nonsense, you say. No the previous staff was very strange when it came to the game of football. I believe the sacks attributed to running out of bounds were by design by in large.

Could our previous staff have done something as strange as that. Well, in some of the recent posts there have been statements to the fact that they threw out the play book at the start of last season. After going through preseason and telling about all of the designed changes they would do something like that? Yes, they were in the panic mode and they had no idea what they were doing.

Am I saying Carr is a SB QB, no. Do I believe Carr is a lot better than a lot of you think? Yes, I do believe he is a lot better, but he has to unlearn a number of habits taught to him in my opinion by a very inept coaching staff. Kubiak has stated that he has gone back and watched every game tape and gone over it thoroughly. I think he is as high as he is on Carr, because he has asked David why was he doing certain things. I think he has been astonished by what he has seen on the tapes. DO I KNOW THIS TO BE A FACT. No, I don't, but if you listen to the side bar that goes on you get hints to just how incompetent the previous staff was. Even John McClain's logic tells you how bad it was.

Another reason I think this is so is because of the extension granted by the club and some of the statements by McNair. I think he is almost apologetic. I think Bob knows he waited far to long to get rid of Capers, but may be that was a blessing in disguise. We now have a very competent coaching staff and lets just wait and see what happens. I keep saying you are in for a real treat. I've been wrong before, but I have a real strange feeling that we have yet to see the true Texans. I believe we are in for some very exciting moments this year.

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 09:17 PM
I believe we are in for some very exciting moments this year.

Excellently worded, couldnt have said it better myself! :rolleyes:

Deep down, we all know that it was time for change. And now to reap the benefits!

:yahoo:

the wonger need food
04-01-2006, 09:20 PM
Carr has played a lot because he is pretty good.

No, Carr has played a lot because the organization has failed to bring someone in to challenge him for his job.

bad
04-01-2006, 09:21 PM
Careful folks. Three positive posts in a row will summon Bobo.

TexansLucky13
04-01-2006, 09:23 PM
Careful folks. Three positive posts in a row will summon Bobo.

D'oh! :homer:

HoustonFrog
04-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Yup, DC has had to work with a lot of crap around him, especialy the fans. Worst fans in the NFL and the entire nation knows it. Here we have some folks who have NEVER liked DC for what ever reason and ******ed and moaned since day one about what mostly amounts to zip and now we have the UT/VY crowd jumping in (just check the dates of sign up, Jan 06 or later = UT). Then we have someone who ALWAYS makes cracks about the salary when he know dang well it is about the league standard and the team has been brand new from the ground up, poorly led and had crap for talent and scheme. Now we have people who say its a bust if he doesn't throw for 4K yards and 30 TDs with 70% and a 100 rating or some other such crap. That's just a setup so that they can continue to rag and beoch about DC. They all act like they perform perfectly at work themselves and no one ever affects the quality of their work or out come of their efforts....Sure, that's the ticket. Why not just start a "I hate Carr and want to knuke him, his family and all his relatives" that way all the Bioch boxes can go there and post all they want rather than starting disengenouse threads just to take shots at Carr. It is well known that he has the talent and hasn't had anything to work with, but of course these "FANS" know better. Is he perfect...HELL no, but if he has the O-line protecting to an NFL standard of 3.5 to 4.5 seconds CONSISTANTLy (85% of the time) and doesn't get it done in the next two years...kick'em to the curb and move on, but until then, your just Pizzing in the wind because he's here, he's the QB so give it up.

This is such a load of b.s. Listen, I thought Carr was great coming out of college and thought he did well for himself his first couple of years, especially considering the circumstances. However, after the honeymoon wore off I decided to look at each Texan, no matter his postion, and critically evaluate whether they could handle the heat and whether they were the type to get us to the next level. You can say all you want that he had no line, no talent, etc but there has been QBs with no talent around them that stepped up and still led teams despite the record. Did I think he would win with the talent?No. But I expected improvement each year. The line was always bad. But he can throw the ball away, not stare down the same receivers play after play and grow as an NFL QB. At least with those improvements you could honestly say, "the guy does what a NFL QB should do but he has no chance." At this time though we pay him as a Top 10 guy even though he hasn't done a thing and he hasn't learned a thing. Add to that the fact that I think last year he said some things that made him seem less than intetested in whether we won or loss....sorry, my perception..and I'm not a huge fan. What I look forward to this year though is new talent, no coaching excuses, etc. If he shows up this year then I will be sold and will be happy to cheer him on. My problem is 8 million for a guy who is still learning after 4 years. Joey Harringtom had many stats that lined up with Carrs and he is gone. Carr had his and got more cash. Harrington had receivers but they were a horrible team too. Some of you equate a bad fan to someone who has a problem with a player. In my book that is real fan...someone who, like any person, expects performace for money paid. Bad fans are the ones who kiss someones tail and make excuses just because they look like they can throw hard and who seem like good guys. It is money paid for talent shown. Plain and simple. I like to think of it like this board. I haven't been here long and can be a moron:) but I have real opinions. Some think that because they have been here longer and written more posts that it equates to more knowledge. Not true. Because Carr makes 8 million and has the tools does not make him a great QB by proxy.

the wonger need food
04-01-2006, 09:34 PM
Yup, DC has had to work with a lot of crap around him, especialy the fans. Worst fans in the NFL and the entire nation knows it. Here we have some folks who have NEVER liked DC for what ever reason and ******ed and moaned since day one about what mostly amounts to zip and now we have the UT/VY crowd jumping in (just check the dates of sign up, Jan 06 or later = UT). Then we have someone who ALWAYS makes cracks about the salary when he know dang well it is about the league standard and the team has been brand new from the ground up, poorly led and had crap for talent and scheme. Now we have people who say its a bust if he doesn't throw for 4K yards and 30 TDs with 70% and a 100 rating or some other such crap. That's just a setup so that they can continue to rag and beoch about DC. They all act like they perform perfectly at work themselves and no one ever affects the quality of their work or out come of their efforts....Sure, that's the ticket. Why not just start a "I hate Carr and want to knuke him, his family and all his relatives" that way all the Bioch boxes can go there and post all they want rather than starting disengenouse threads just to take shots at Carr. It is well known that he has the talent and hasn't had anything to work with, but of course these "FANS" know better. Is he perfect...HELL no, but if he has the O-line protecting to an NFL standard of 3.5 to 4.5 seconds CONSISTANTLy (85% of the time) and doesn't get it done in the next two years...kick'em to the curb and move on, but until then, your just Pizzing in the wind because he's here, he's the QB so give it up.

It's good to see that there are plenty of people out there that will always make excuses for the guy. He'll appreciate the support when he's backing up Alex Smith or Eli Manning in a few years.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2006, 11:04 PM
Hulk, I am a children's pastor at a church in Amarillo, TX. I've been involved in volunteer ministry for about eight years prior to my current career in professional ministry.

I love God. I put God first in my life. But God honors hard work. And Carr studying film at home, where his wife and children live, is to say the least a bit comical. I can't get jack done when I'm home with my wife and kids here at the same time. I gotta' be up at 2 in the morning around my house to do some computer work for my job at the church JUST to keep my sanity due to the wife and kids wanting my attention.

One of the biggest gripes of people who don't "know" God or do not consistently worship God in their daily lives is this: We play the martyr card all the time. You are a great guy, Hulk. You have good things to say...but when you try to bail out Carr because in your mind he's being attacked JUST because he loves God and loves his family...it gives people a reason to roll their eyes and chuckle at us.

Dude needs to sacrifice this year, not just for his own sake, but for the gift that God has given him. Otherwise, he won't be the champion for Christ that we know he is. The Apostle Paul said to run the race to win the prize...not to come in second, or third, or last. He knew that Jesus cared about winning and about being a success. It's how we let our light shine for Christ, and it draws attention to the Creator who gave us the power to achieve and overcome.

So drop the God-hating excuse and accept the fact that he has not worked as hard as Kubiak is about to make him work. I posted a thread about a 2002 article at NFL.com on Kubiak and his relationship with then-Broncos QB Brian Griese. Kubiak eats, sleeps, and breathes football...expecially with his QBs. It;s why he is able to help them become better. It's his gift in life.

McNair got this guy on board the ship, and it's time Carr spent a little bit more time at the office. It'll pay off, and he, his family, and all of us will see the results if he'll sacrifice. Keep his perspective on the things of God and family the way it should, by all means, but mostly he needs to reverse the curse by giving up a little free time for three months out of the year.

God honors hard work.

I'm sorry, but I can't believe nobody has blasted this post before, what exactly are you trying to preach to us:

That God believes that Carr should put football before family. NEWSFLASH: God could give a RATS *** about football.

I'm really contemplating making the statement below my new signature, because it is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board.

"he won't be the champion for Christ that we know he is."

Wake up David, Jesus Christ, our savior died on the cross for your sins and so you could lead the Houston Texans to a championship, be a good little christian and go out there and win one for the "almighty" gipper :rolleyes:

Bobo
04-01-2006, 11:07 PM
As if David Carr will let God down if he doesn't take the Texans to the SB.

edo783
04-01-2006, 11:45 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't believe nobody has blasted this post before, what exactly are you trying to preach to us:

That God believes that Carr should put football before family. NEWSFLASH: God could give a RATS *** about football.

I'm really contemplating making the statement below my new signature, because it is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board.

"he won't be the champion for Christ that we know he is."

Wake up David, Jesus Christ, our savior died on the cross for your sins and so you could lead the Houston Texans to a championship, be a good little christian and go out there and win one for the "almighty" gipper :rolleyes:

CB, while don't ascribe to the concept of God being on on teams side or the other, I do feel your post is unduly harsh and is making fun of a posters belief system and is then an unwarrented attack on him. I suspect that wasn't your intent, but that is how it reads to me.

Carr Bombed
04-02-2006, 12:16 AM
CB, while don't ascribe to the concept of God being on on teams side or the other, I do feel your post is unduly harsh and is making fun of a posters belief system and is then an unwarrented attack on him. I suspect that wasn't your intent, but that is how it reads to me.

I wasn't attacking his religion and never intended it to seem that way and like him I'm a devoted christian, which is why I was bothered by his comments that God would rather him devote more time to his trade, which is football, than his family and being a devoted christian, I know God could care less about football, no sport is more important than family.

I know we are all big football fans here, but seriously you have to draw the line somewhere.

Having said that if my comments gave you that impression, I'm truly sorry and apologize

Bobo
04-02-2006, 01:44 AM
CB, while don't ascribe to the concept of God being on on teams side or the other, I do feel your post is unduly harsh and is making fun of a posters belief system and is then an unwarrented attack on him. I suspect that wasn't your intent, but that is how it reads to me.

The "champion for Christ" thing is probably the most bothersome statement made in the post. It makes it sound like if David Carr doesn't lead the Texans to a championship, then he is letting God down. God may give people certain gifts, but all he expects us to do with them is use them to the best of our ability. The story of the 10 talents is an example of this. One guy got 10, another got five and the third got one. The point of that story is to use what you've got to the best of your ability. Period. Not all of us are called to be the best in the business we choose to work in, but we all are called to do the best with what we have. Some of us are called to play QB for the Indianapolis Colts, others are called to be QB with the Texans. To judge both via there results when their situations are so different would be unfair.

Kaiser Toro
04-02-2006, 11:19 AM
They all act like they perform perfectly at work themselves and no one ever affects the quality of their work or out come of their efforts.

If DC worked for me he would have been fired. That is the real world. Hot shot prospects that the company invests millions in and does not live up to is an easy cut in the name of operating expense.

goingdeep
04-02-2006, 02:45 PM
Lets say Carr flops this year wouldn't it be a good idea to have a proven backup waiting in the wings. And hey if he improves let him work it but if he doesn't bring in the pro besides it would put some pressure on the guy to get it done. I think Carr has the tools but may not be the guy we will see if he steps up to the level needed. I just would like to see a known proven qb ready in case things don't look so good in other words make him earn it or bench him.:brickwall

old football fan
04-02-2006, 03:04 PM
This is such a load of b.s. Listen, I thought Carr was great coming out of college and thought he did well for himself his first couple of years, especially considering the circumstances. However, after the honeymoon wore off I decided to look at each Texan, no matter his postion, and critically evaluate whether they could handle the heat and whether they were the type to get us to the next level. You can say all you want that he had no line, no talent, etc but there has been QBs with no talent around them that stepped up and still led teams despite the record. Did I think he would win with the talent?No. But I expected improvement each year. The line was always bad. But he can throw the ball away, not stare down the same receivers play after play and grow as an NFL QB. At least with those improvements you could honestly say, "the guy does what a NFL QB should do but he has no chance." At this time though we pay him as a Top 10 guy even though he hasn't done a thing and he hasn't learned a thing. Add to that the fact that I think last year he said some things that made him seem less than intetested in whether we won or loss....sorry, my perception..and I'm not a huge fan. What I look forward to this year though is new talent, no coaching excuses, etc. If he shows up this year then I will be sold and will be happy to cheer him on. My problem is 8 million for a guy who is still learning after 4 years. Joey Harringtom had many stats that lined up with Carrs and he is gone. Carr had his and got more cash. Harrington had receivers but they were a horrible team too. Some of you equate a bad fan to someone who has a problem with a player. In my book that is real fan...someone who, like any person, expects performace for money paid. Bad fans are the ones who kiss someones tail and make excuses just because they look like they can throw hard and who seem like good guys. It is money paid for talent shown. Plain and simple. I like to think of it like this board. I haven't been here long and can be a moron:) but I have real opinions. Some think that because they have been here longer and written more posts that it equates to more knowledge. Not true. Because Carr makes 8 million and has the tools does not make him a great QB by proxy.
Name one or two who have done this!

Jwwillis
04-02-2006, 04:18 PM
Right, but the teams did not have to worry about a salary cap. By the time Elway was sunsettting so was his contract. His first contract was 12 million over 6 years. We not only pay Carr #1 money for the first four years, but will now for another three. This is a lot of money to have no return on investment. Moreover, the total cost of ownership is way to high in my opinion as he needs more resources to be successful.

Dan Pastorini came in the league as the 1st player to reveive a 1 million dollar contract. Caps or Free Agency would not have made him worth that money or a SB winner without better receivers.

I wouldn't worry too much about McNairs payroll. He is one of the big money franchises. Total labor costs cannot exceed just less than 60% of total revenue. The Redskins broke the bank a few year back for top Fa's and they didnt do anything. the Florida Marlins bought an all star line up and won a World Series but they were dismantled the next year because even though they won the champinship the owner lost money. And then theres the Yankees. Hightest payroll.....they don't have a cap.

Barkley made over 60 million...no champion

Carl Malone

John Stockton

Hakeem made over 80 million...it took 10yrs to become a champion (surrounding personel)

Jim Kelley?

Dan Moreno?

Maddict5
04-02-2006, 04:30 PM
i think it will be the o-line that will get the most scrutiny from national media..you ask most commentators etc about the texans- 1 of the 1st things always mentioned is how bad the o-line is...so i think the focus will be on the o-line and if it is able to keep the rush off long enough to give time to DC to use our new weapons- obviously if they're adequate and carr isnt getting it done (unlikely imo) then the pressure will turn to him