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barzilla
03-30-2006, 04:03 PM
I've got my big wooden desk here for the reported Moulds deal, but if that deal goes down I would have to say this has been a great off-season so far. Moulds is the first significant skill position player we've ever picked up in free agency. It seems to me while he has serious issues on draft day, much of his free agent misses can be blamed on the past coaching staff.

The new coaching staff came into the off-season targeting nine players and they got eight of them. David Givens may have gotten away, but if they get Moulds they will have someone as good in the short term. Meanwhile, they can really honestly go after best player available for the first time. Heck, look at the "trades" for Kevin Walters and Moulds. We surrendered a lot more for TBuc and he is not nearly the impact player that Moulds is.

Given these facts, how would you categorize Casserly?

A) Wait and see on the draft
B) Unfortunate victim of the last incompetent regime
C) Ineffectual figurehead
D) Made some mistakes he is now learning from

jacquescas
03-30-2006, 04:06 PM
didn't they also target Ashworth and Neal from the Pats and Burelson from the vikings?

Not to say that this offseason hasn't been amazing, but we missed on more than 1 player.:challenge

hollywood_texan
03-30-2006, 05:05 PM
I've got my big wooden desk here for the reported Moulds deal, but if that deal goes down I would have to say this has been a great off-season so far. Moulds is the first significant skill position player we've ever picked up in free agency. It seems to me while he has serious issues on draft day, much of his free agent misses can be blamed on the past coaching staff.

The new coaching staff came into the off-season targeting nine players and they got eight of them. David Givens may have gotten away, but if they get Moulds they will have someone as good in the short term. Meanwhile, they can really honestly go after best player available for the first time. Heck, look at the "trades" for Kevin Walters and Moulds. We surrendered a lot more for TBuc and he is not nearly the impact player that Moulds is.

Given these facts, how would you categorize Casserly?

A) Wait and see on the draft
B) Unfortunate victim of the last incompetent regime
C) Ineffectual figurehead
D) Made some mistakes he is now learning from

Is this a joke?

I don't care if Casserly made any personnel decisions directly or was only complicit, he needs to take his share of responsibility for the first four year debacle.

If Kubiak or the coaching staff is making all the personnel calls, then maybe he really isn't a GM and never was because he didn't make the personnel decisions before.

Sticking up for Casserly is like sticking up for David Carr's poor playing.

I wondering if the person who started this thread believes Carr is the total stud quarterback and the last four years of Carr's play can be blamed on entirely on the offensive line?

HJam72
03-30-2006, 05:10 PM
What are you people going to complain about when Carr turns out to be a good QB and Casserly can't be blamed for anything anymore? :idonno:

LBblitz
03-30-2006, 05:26 PM
What are you people going to complain about when Carr turns out to be a good QB and Casserly can't be blamed for anything anymore? :idonno:
dont tempt them.

SESupergenius
03-30-2006, 06:26 PM
If Casserly only tries to get the players that the coaches target, then Casserly is overrated in his keeness of "finding" and "scouting" a player. I give no credit what so every in helping this team.

hollywood_texan
03-30-2006, 06:39 PM
What are you people going to complain about when Carr turns out to be a good QB and Casserly can't be blamed for anything anymore? :idonno:

Honestly, in Carr's first four years, he hasn't done anything to show he can carry a team. I know the the response, he didn't have an offensive line.

Well, if the offensive line was so bad, why haven't they made big changes? And if they take Reggie Bush instead of Ferguson, it seems clear to me the problems with the offense and the sacks of the first four years fall squarely on David Carr and the coaching staff taking into perspective what Kubiak does with the personnel. Furthermore, Kubiak seems to have said as much about Carr's play anyway.

If Carr turns out to be a great quarterback, that is great. But let's be honest that he hasn't really shown it yet.

Not to say he can't do it or it won't happen, there just isn't anything to indicate it.

I wish Carr the best of luck, because it seems clear he is going to have to produce 2006 because they are making the moves for the right pieces. Just "playing well" isn't going to cut it, only winning football games will.

I am looking forward to 2006 because it is really setting up to be put up or shut up.

McNair wants to win now instead of planning for it in three years. That will be a tall order for a shell shocked quarterback that just went 2-14.

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 06:56 PM
Well, if the offensive line was so bad, why haven't they made big changes?

While that may facially seem logical, it applies to both Carr and the OL and in the end seems to favor exactly the opposite conclusion.

OL--signed Flanigan, pursued several other FA's as potential starters, moved McKinney, hired an pass protection scheme guru (the Bush vs. Ferguson argument doesn't fly--Ferguson is not worth the #1 pick and would not be BPA at #1)
QB--hired a QB who is not expected to push Carr

So if changes are demonstration of an area of concern, they point more at the OL.

In any event, the fact is both need to improve. Kubiak has rightly said Carr is responsible for and must improve on taking sacks. At the same time, the Texans' blocking schemes were openly mocked last year--i.e. coaching changes should result in improvement even without personnel changes. They have effectively already changed 2 of 5 starting OLmen. No Carr has not shown much in the past 4 year, but it seems pretty clear IMO that Reeves/Kubiak/Sherman who have a fair amount of football knowledge do not agree that Carr has shown everything he can be.

Double Barrel
03-30-2006, 07:06 PM
I don't care if Casserly made any personnel decisions directly or was only complicit, he needs to take his share of responsibility for the first four year debacle.

Last year this time we weren't calling the first three seasons a "debacle". Matter-of-fact, we were pretty happy with a 7-9 record and most were optimistic of the 2005 season to be at least 8-8 (or even our first winning record).

Of course last year was a debacle for any team. But 2005 is just one out of four. I just can't throw all four seasons together in one generalization. Some leeway must be granted to a brand new team's first couple of years.

As far as Casserly, I've read all kinds of things about the man as a GM. Not sure what to believe anymore, to be honest. I've read that he's a great talent finder, but then only gets the players the coaches want. But he's had the final say, but then it's a coaching decision. No one source seems to be THE place to get a truthful picture of the guy.

hollywood_texan
03-30-2006, 07:21 PM
While that may facially seem logical, it applies to both Carr and the OL and in the end seems to favor exactly the opposite conclusion.

OL--signed Flanigan, pursued several other FA's as potential starters, moved McKinney, hired an pass protection scheme guru (the Bush vs. Ferguson argument doesn't fly--Ferguson is not worth the #1 pick and would not be BPA at #1)
QB--hired a QB who is not expected to push Carr
So if changes are demonstration of an area of concern, they point more at the OL.

In any event, the fact is both need to improve. Kubiak has rightly said Carr is responsible for and must improve on taking sacks. At the same time, the Texans' blocking schemes were openly mocked last year--i.e. coaching changes should result in improvement even without personnel changes. They have effectively already changed 2 of 5 starting OLmen. No Carr has not shown much in the past 4 year, but it seems pretty clear IMO that Reeves/Kubiak/Sherman who have a fair amount of football knowledge do not agree that Carr has shown everything he can be.

The QB point remains to be seen, we shall see what they do in the draft and I am not talking about Vince Young in particular.

Adding one guy on the line is not wholesale changes and completely changing the personnel.

The offensive line only do what they are told and they don't do anything with the football except snap it to Carr, Carr's job is to deliver the ball and the receivers to get open.

I think we are on the same page though. Last year's offense was so predictable and defense coordinators exposed it on a regular basis. Realize though, that isn't the fault of the offensive line. Ask yourself, how could the Indy offensive line played so horribly against Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Maybe they didn't, Pittsburgh had the offense figured out and Manning/coaching staff didn't make adjustments. Same premise applies to the Carr/sack issue.

What concerns me is that Carr didn't seem to step up and offer anything during 2005, but then again, I don't know what happened in the locker room. It just looked that way, he looked like a ghost out there.

Furthermore, taking sacks by running out of bounds and throwing the ball away on an inconsequential 2-point conversion, when he never throws the ball away, makes wonder if has the smarts to figure the game out.

This is David Carr's year considering the personnel moves (meaning Moulds and Walters) on both sides of the ball. Especially if they draft Reggie Bush.

As for the previous three years, going 7-9 and dropping a turd to Cleveland at home at the final game was ridiculous and just showing of what was to come. So what, the team had a brief a little run midway during the 2004 season. They were out of the playoff hunt by the Green Bay game, and that game they Carr couldn't lead the offense to 1 first down in the 4th quarter.

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 07:27 PM
Realize though, that isn't the fault of the offensive line.

There is certainly a distinction to be made between bad OL personnel and bad OL play. IMO without a doubt last season there was bad OL play. Now much of that bad play may be attributed to the schemes, which points away from the need for wholesale changes. Victor Riley being a huge incompetent exception.

hollywood_texan
03-30-2006, 07:33 PM
Actually, I think I am overstating my point. The offensive line has to bear it's portion of the blame, but the playcalling, schemes, and David Carr's play just made the offense a complete mess when combined together.

I think some very good proven NFL QBs could have performed a lot better under the same circumstances. The reason he has been sacked records times is due to multiple reasons, including poor play by David Carr.

TheOgre
03-30-2006, 07:36 PM
Last off-seasons moves were horrible and helped lead to our 2-14 season.

Casserly's strength getting value trading down or trading for future picks. His weaknesses are trading up and reaching on too many long-shot players. The word "potential" has too much meaning when it comes to him.

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 07:47 PM
Actually, I think I am overstating my point. The offensive line has to bear it's portion of the blame, but the playcalling, schemes, and David Carr's play just made the offense a complete mess when combined together.

I think some very good proven NFL QBs could have performed a lot better under the same circumstances. The reason he has been sacked records times is due to multiple reasons, including poor play by David Carr.

Lot's of cogs to a smoothly working team. Last year the Texans' didn't have any of them.

bkimble
03-30-2006, 08:24 PM
[QUOTE=barzilla]I've got my big wooden desk here for the reported Moulds deal, but if that deal goes down I would have to say this has been a great off-season so far. Moulds is the first significant skill position player we've ever picked up in free agency. It seems to me while he has serious issues on draft day, much of his free agent misses can be blamed on the past coaching staff.

The new coaching staff came into the off-season targeting nine players and they got eight of them. David Givens may have gotten away, but if they get Moulds they will have someone as good in the short term. Meanwhile, they can really honestly go after best player available for the first time. Heck, look at the "trades" for Kevin Walters and Moulds. We surrendered a lot more for TBuc and he is not nearly the impact player that Moulds is.

Given these facts, how would you categorize Casserly?



I'd categorize Casserly as the worse GM in the NFL. Even the GM in Detriot is better. This guy is a joke! Remember this is the same guy that gave us:

1. david Carr
2. Jason Babin
3. Phillip Bucannon
4. Dom Capers
5. did I say David Carr, oh well, you get the picture.

We bring in Kubes and you can see big improvement already. Do you think that's an accident? Nayyyyy!
:brickwall

Erratic Assassin
03-30-2006, 08:27 PM
A) Wait and see on the draft
B) Unfortunate victim of the last incompetent regime
C) Ineffectual figurehead
D) Made some mistakes he is now learning from

C) Ineffectual figurehead. Total bottomfeeder. Matt Millen is the only GM in the league that's worse than Casserly.

Hell, I'd rather have Jerry Jones as my GM than Casserly.

Frank_The_Tank
03-30-2006, 08:59 PM
I wonder if Bob finnaly told Cass to stop making the calls, and just do what Kubiak says :piano: . I mean if you hear Kubiak talk, all you hear is that Cass has done a great job getting the guys Kubiak wanted. Does this mean that Chaley has been kicked out of the Chocolate Factory, and now he just goes aroud picking up wonka bars??? I am guessing that is what has happend because the ingrediants being brewed :stirpot: this off-season look nothing like the ingrediants being selected these past 4 to 5 years.

Mr Shush
03-30-2006, 09:14 PM
Come off it guys. If Kubiak was going to be the guy making the free agency decisions, Casserly wouldn't still have a job. I think Kubiak is a very talented coach, who will do a lot to help us win games, and I think of all the things Casserly deserves blame for the most significant is his initial selection of Coaching personnel back in 2002. That does not mean we can credit Kubiak for all our off-season moves, although of course he will have been influential in Putzier's signing, as Sherman will have in Flanagan's. If you don't want to credit Casserly for 2006, you'd better say Philip Buchanon is Hoke's fault. Alternatively, you could be realistic, acknowledge that even the Pioli/Belichicks and Polian's of this world make mistakes (Monty Beisel, Duane Starks) and even the Matt Millens get some things right (um . . . well, he probably must have at some point). Casserly is somewhere in between. He has had bad luck with injuries here (Boselli, Joppru), his picks and signings have been made to look worse through bad coaching - which is his fault for signing the coaches, he has made some rotten decisions (Buchanon) and some good ones (Robinson, Davis, Henson). In 2005, he had a terrible off-season, most significantly because of his failure to recognise the importance of experienced LBs to Fangio's defense. In 2006, he is having a great off-season, to date. There is no contradiction involved here.

aj.
03-30-2006, 09:22 PM
I wonder if Bob finnaly told Cass to stop making the calls, and just do what Kubiak says .

Casserly's wings were officially clipped when Reeves was hired, but McNair saved Casserly's career by not firing him.

Reeves asked the "football questions" during the head coach interview process - according to Charley.

Ferens was promoted to VP of contract negotiations about the time Kubiak was hired, further diluting the power of the Texans GM position.

McNair is more involved than ever in player moves this year, given his quote about Givens not being worth 25 mill.

Kubiak developed the blueprint of players he wanted in free agency and the draft. CC is the figurehead at this point and not much more.

I think McNair wants a weak GM by design, i.e., distributed power among several VPs of Football Ops, Contract Negos' etc..

The buck hasn't stopped at CC's desk on major decisions for a while .... if ever, since he usually passed the blame on to his coaches.

He will be gone in 3-4 months

Mr Shush
03-30-2006, 09:33 PM
Why would he still be here if he was going to be gone in 3-4 months?

What would McNair gain by continuing to pay him if he wasn't making decisions?

How does the notion of a "figurehead GM" make any kind of business or football sense, unless the GM in question is perhaps a hugely popular ex-player - say Marino in Miami? Who is going to buy tickets because Casserly is still the GM, that wouldn't have anyway? How is a GM who is paid to do nothing good for the football side? What, in fact, are you talking about?

LBC_Justin
03-30-2006, 09:40 PM
I'd categorize Casserly as the worse GM in the NFL. Even the GM in Detriot is better. This guy is a joke! Remember this is the same guy that gave us:

1. david Carr
2. Jason Babin
3. Phillip Bucannon
4. Dom Capers
5. did I say David Carr, oh well, you get the picture.

We bring in Kubes and you can see big improvement already. Do you think that's an accident? Nayyyyy!
:brickwall
You need to lay off the crack rock.
Detriot just signed one of our worst recievers and is paying him twice as much as we paid him. LOL Give me a freaking break it could be much much worse.

aj.
03-30-2006, 09:41 PM
Why would he still be here if he was going to be gone in 3-4 months?

What would McNair gain by continuing to pay him if he wasn't making decisions?

How does the notion of a "figurehead GM" make any kind of business or football sense, unless the GM in question is perhaps a hugely popular ex-player - say Marino in Miami? Who is going to buy tickets because Casserly is still the GM, that wouldn't have anyway? How is a GM who is paid to do nothing good for the football side? What, in fact, are you talking about?

a) because his contract expires at the end of the year and once off-season activity winds down, so will he.

b) he's running the scouting function - rating and ranking talent. That's how he's making his money at the moment. If you think for a minute that he has a major say in the #1 overall pick on April 29, seek help.

c) it doesn't make sense. That position has evolved, if you haven't noticed, into something far less powerful than it was in '02. McNair has learned a lesson about his GMs span of control for future years. He's not going to give the new GM the autonomy that CC had in '02. There will be a lot more checks and balances until it's turned around.

Mr Shush
03-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Wait, the notion of a figurehead GM makes no sense, but McNair wants one anyway? So is your contention that McNair is an *****? An *****, moreover, who is keeping a guy around to do nothing while free agency and the draft takes place, but will cut him loose (and what, replace him with another figurehead?) as soon as there is nothing left for him not to do? I'm confused. Deeply confused.

aj.
03-30-2006, 09:47 PM
McNair wants split powers and not a strong GM. At least that's the way I see it. Think weak mayor in city govt. That's why he promoted Ferens and one other to VPs ... to take that load away from the GM to let him concentrate on player personnel. That's not uncommon in the NFL.

Mr Shush
03-30-2006, 09:47 PM
Blimey, "i-d-i-o-t" get's filtered? Okay, for "*****", read, "a silly, silly man".

Mr Shush
03-30-2006, 09:50 PM
'k, I'm British and for the most part mayors (insofar as we have them) don't do much over here - Ken Livingstone excepted. But I think I get where you're coming from. Not especially convinced, though.

barzilla
03-30-2006, 10:11 PM
I wondering if the person who started this thread believes Carr is the total stud quarterback and the last four years of Carr's play can be blamed on entirely on the offensive line?


Okay, a couple of things:

1) I'm not nominating Casserly for executive of the year here. I acknowledged in the initial post that he has had several problems with the draft.

2) I think the offensive troubles have been a combination of coaching, personnel, and Carr

However, your post seems to put forth the following:

1) It is ALL Casserly's fault.
2) It is ALL Carr's fault.

That seems to me to be as ludicrous as the reverse. In actuality, this organization went from "going in the right direction" to "in the crapper" in one year. So, how does someone go from decent or average to blithering moron in one year? It just doesn't make sense.

Truth be told, there were bad decisions made last year (letting Sharper and Glenn go, the TBuc trade, not upgrading the line), but the main point I was trying to make is that he is a part of group of decision makers and it seems like he is getting a brunt of the blame since the others are now gone.

PeekingDuck
03-31-2006, 07:00 AM
'k, I'm British and for the most part mayors (insofar as we have them) don't do much over here - Ken Livingstone excepted. But I think I get where you're coming from. Not especially convinced, though.

Shush, I'm not British but I live in London, maybe we should start an Official UK Supporters group? heh Not sure I'm up for tailgating in the Enlish weather, but we'll certainly have a better selection of beers to choose from!

Btw, I don't think the message filter will stop adjectives such as wanker or tosspot so fire away!

CoachJim
03-31-2006, 08:01 AM
...
Btw, I don't think the message filter will stop adjectives such as wanker or tosspot so fire away!

What the HEYAL is a tosspot?

bkimble
03-31-2006, 08:54 AM
You need to lay off the crack rock.
Detriot just signed one of our worst recievers and is paying him twice as much as we paid him. LOL Give me a freaking break it could be much much worse.

You need to lay off the crack rock. Atleast MM finally let JH go, our wonder GM just re-signed DC to a new multi-year million dollar contract extension. For what? What have DC done in the past 4 years to justify a new contract? I know, it's not David's fault that the o-line is so bad. But, wait a minute, is that same o-line help produce 3 straight 1,000 yards rushing? Ok, they can run block but they can't pass block. Maybe if I put down the crack rock I could understand this better. Wake-up Dude, DC and CC are an embarrassement. I think B. McNair is starting to wake up, I hope so.
:yahoo:

Runner
03-31-2006, 09:16 AM
What the HEYAL is a tosspot?

British slang for heavy drinker.

PeekingDuck
03-31-2006, 10:13 AM
British slang for heavy drinker.


ermm... no, it's much closer to wanker and a bit more graphic

Marcus
03-31-2006, 10:22 AM
You need to lay off the crack rock. Atleast MM finally let JH go, our wonder GM just re-signed DC to a new multi-year million dollar contract extension. For what? What have DC done in the past 4 years to justify a new contract? I know, it's not David's fault that the o-line is so bad. But, wait a minute, is that same o-line help produce 3 straight 1,000 yards rushing? Ok, they can run block but they can't pass block. Maybe if I put down the crack rock I could understand this better. Wake-up Dude, DC and CC are an embarrassement. I think B. McNair is starting to wake up, I hope so.
:yahoo:

aj said it best. It's worth repeating. If you think CC will have a major say in who is taken with the first overall pick . . seek help.

And if you think CC had a major say in giving Carr that new mult-year million dollar extension, seek serious major help.

And for any of you that think CC is such a terrible GM, but he has been reduced to a 'figurehead' . . . .

. . . then what the 'heyal' are y'all so fricken worried about?

infantrycak
03-31-2006, 10:38 AM
ermm... no, it's much closer to wanker and a bit more graphic

From Merriam Webster:

tosspot
One entry found for tosspot.
Main Entry: toss·pot
Pronunciation: -"pät
Function: noun
: DRUNKARD, SOT

May have an informal meaning but there is the official one.

hollywood_texan
03-31-2006, 01:10 PM
Okay, a couple of things:

1) I'm not nominating Casserly for executive of the year here. I acknowledged in the initial post that he has had several problems with the draft.

2) I think the offensive troubles have been a combination of coaching, personnel, and Carr

However, your post seems to put forth the following:

1) It is ALL Casserly's fault.
2) It is ALL Carr's fault.

That seems to me to be as ludicrous as the reverse. In actuality, this organization went from "going in the right direction" to "in the crapper" in one year. So, how does someone go from decent or average to blithering moron in one year? It just doesn't make sense.

Truth be told, there were bad decisions made last year (letting Sharper and Glenn go, the TBuc trade, not upgrading the line), but the main point I was trying to make is that he is a part of group of decision makers and it seems like he is getting a brunt of the blame since the others are now gone.

No, I don't think it is all their fault. But it starts first with Carr on the offensive side of the ball. The offense will perform to the level he does and this is year to prove he can get it done, at least a playoff run.

As for Casserly, he seems to be demoted and he doesn't have the opportunity to redeem/prove himself.

hollywood_texan
03-31-2006, 01:12 PM
McNair wants split powers and not a strong GM. At least that's the way I see it. Think weak mayor in city govt. That's why he promoted Ferens and one other to VPs ... to take that load away from the GM to let him concentrate on player personnel. That's not uncommon in the NFL.

All of what you are saying makes a lot sense if you read an article from a couple of months ago about McNair and how is more involved.

I think it was on chron.com.

It looks like your points are correct.

aj.
03-31-2006, 01:27 PM
Eventually, I think Bob will want to back off again, once he's comfortable with his execs. Keep in mind that it's McNair who is pushing the split commissioner role. I think he prefers checks and balances among his execs instead of one strong-man. I don't know how he runs his other businesses, but I've seen hints of that managment style emerge over the last few months.

BigBull17
03-31-2006, 01:46 PM
What the HEYAL is a tosspot?

I tohought it was the thing people used to poop in and dump it out the window.

Runner
03-31-2006, 03:19 PM
ermm... no, it's much closer to wanker and a bit more graphic

Just Google "tosspot British slang". I heard it from a Brit in the first place. So your "ermmm... no" is incorrect, at the least incomplete. The term wanker in our vernacular comes to us unchanged from the British slang, which led me to supply the British definition.

Being open minded, I also looked the term up on urbandictionary.com to find alternate meanings and have in fact found the one you are referencing.

By the way, my friends think I'm a bit of a logophile.

Runner
03-31-2006, 03:22 PM
Eventually, I think Bob will want to back off again, once he's comfortable with his execs. Keep in mind that it's McNair who is pushing the split commissioner role. I think he prefers checks and balances among his execs instead of one strong-man. I don't know how he runs his other businesses, but I've seen hints of that managment style emerge over the last few months.

Didn't McNair buy the Texans with the plan that his son eventually takes over the operation?

PeekingDuck
03-31-2006, 04:18 PM
Just Google "tosspot British slang". I heard it from a Brit in the first place. So your "ermmm... no" is incorrect, at the least incomplete. The term wanker in our vernacular comes to us unchanged from the British slang, which led me to supply the British definition.

Being open minded, I also looked the term up on urbandictionary.com to find alternate meanings and have in fact found the one you are referencing.

By the way, my friends think I'm a bit of a logophile.

What is a logophile?

el toro
03-31-2006, 04:35 PM
Why wasn't Casserly thrown out with Capers & Co. at the end of the season? Makes no sense if he's that horrid.

Runner
03-31-2006, 04:37 PM
What is a logophile?

I'm glad you asked!

logophile - a word buff