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View Full Version : Listening to Mark Vandemere on 610.....


jayseed2002
03-30-2006, 11:07 AM
I was on the way home yesterday and he brought up an interesting stat on David YUGO and Joey Harrington:
Games JH-58 DY-60

Games started JH-55 DY-58

ATT JH-1802 DY 1628,

COMP. JH-986 DY- 941

PCT. JH-54.7 DY-57.8

Yards JH-10,242 DY-10,624

Yards per Attempt JH-5.68 DY-6.53

LG. JH-86 DY-81

TD'S JH-60 DY-48

INT. JH-62 DY-53

20+ pass plays JH-118 DY-118

40+ pass plays JH-19 DY-18

Passer Rating JH-68.1 DY-73.7

The numbers are scary!!!! They are VERY SIMILAR! One not only loses his job but gets cut..... the other gets a multi-year, multi-million dollar extension. Detroit also won MORE games with Harrington than we won with David Yugo.... please draft VY! :redtowel:

texanfan2100
03-30-2006, 11:14 AM
You have to look at the talent level around the two. Harrington went to an established team that surrounded him with three first round draft choice recievers and a decent offensive line. David CARR went to an expansion team that didn't exactly stockpile the roster with talent. Carr has also been hurt more than Harrington, maybe because of the aforementioned offensive line. It's unfair to compare the two.

This being said without even mentioning the coaching, which I'll choose not to dwell on. I'd rather pretend it never happened.

Texans Front Row Crew
03-30-2006, 11:19 AM
A big stat that you are missing is SACKS!!! I think Joey was sacked about 78 time in his career. While David was sacked 250+ ( and still able to put some numbers up) I'm for drafting Young, and keeping Carr. Who knows what is going to happen :twocents:

Frills
03-30-2006, 11:24 AM
Harrington had an established team.

DC went to a team composed of players noone else wanted, and 3 years of rookie drafts

SnakeOilTanker
03-30-2006, 11:25 AM
you have to be freakin kiddin me....if you really think they are that close as players...i dont even know I'm beside myself

Hey here's an idea...acually watch games...don't just look up stats.

Texans Front Row Crew
03-30-2006, 11:25 AM
Joey probably had more than 2.3 seconds to get rid of the ball- :stirpot:

texanfan2100
03-30-2006, 11:30 AM
Yes Detroit is LOADED with talent, that is why they have all of those HIGH first round choices! Established team huh......:ok: seems they have been pretty bad for awhile now.:)

You seem to be missing the point on what I'm saying.:brickwall Harrington was put in a much better position to succeed than Carr. They actually gave him some weapons, and he was about the same as Carr. If Carr was given the opportunity (and coaching) Harrington was, he would have had a much better chance to succeed. I don't think Detroit's talent is horrible, they coaching an QB play has been suspect.

By established team, I meant that they had an organization in place, and had some players. The Texans were starting from scratch. I think that would qualify them as less established than a team that has been in existence for over sixty years.

Carr may not be an NFL caliber QB, but we don't know yet. He needs a chance to fail with a real NFL offense with real NFL talent before he can be called a bust.

texanfan2100
03-30-2006, 11:32 AM
Yes Detroit is LOADED with talent, that is why they have all of those HIGH first round choices! Established team huh......:ok: seems they have been pretty bad for awhile now.:)

Harrington also got rid of the ball to the other team on a frequent basis. I'd rather have the sack.

texanfan2100
03-30-2006, 11:47 AM
Let's see how established Detroit was... in 2001 they were 2-14, the Texans were NON-Existent....
2002 Houston goes 4-12..... the "established NFL team" goes 3-13

2003 Both teams go 5-11

2004 Houston goes 7-9..... Detroit with all its talent goes 6-10

2005 Houston goes 2-14..... JH wins 150% more games than David Yugo ( 5 wins ) and he gets cut!

This must be the Board of The David Yugo family.... CALL A DUCK A DUCK!!!!! 4 years....that was his "learning" time..... now he gets a new system..... guess he gets to draw ANOTHER 4 years worth of paychecks before anybody will hold him accountable. :brickwall

Ok, you obviously have an agenda here, so I'll ask. Who do you want to be the QB for the Texans in 2006?

gtexan02
03-30-2006, 11:49 AM
PS: Most sportswriters are agreeing that JH's problem was that the Lions (including his teammates) gave up on him way too early. They didn't believe in him, and he didn't feel "wanted." Carr's got new coaches and teammates now who want to believe in him. Thats why Gaff was let go I bet. He didn't fit the profile

Kaiser Toro
03-30-2006, 11:51 AM
Carr and Harrington both have not lived up to expectations. Carr has been extended and will be the Texans QB next year and Harrington is looking for a job. That is really all we need to know until the games start being played.

Porky
03-30-2006, 11:51 AM
Carr is easily the better of the two. Not saying he has been great, but clearly he has better physical ability. I still wonder about the mental part of the game for him, but it's very obvious to me that Kubes is surronding him with enough weapons to take any excuses away from him. If he is still miserable, then we will replace him. Not this year, and not with Vince. And of course, the best scenerio is that he steps up and at least gives us decent Quaterbacking.

Frills
03-30-2006, 12:00 PM
There's a reason Pendry doesn't have a job anywhere right now, and a reason Capers didn't get a HC job with all the openings as well.

texanfan2100
03-30-2006, 12:25 PM
and there a reason they BOTH GOT THE JOB to begin with......seems that Charlie and Bob have made mistakes before by hiring both of them..... now it looks like they made a mistake with David Yugo as well. They cut their ties with bad coaching..... now cut the ties with a quarterback who can't take them where they want to go. DRAFT VY!

Ok, it makes sense now. You want them to draft Vince Young, so David Carr must be the second coming of Satan.:ok:

Look, they have made enough adjustments to be a real NFL offense next year. If they add Moulds and Bush, they'll have plenty of talent around Carr. How do you know that Carr can't take them where they want to go? Because he can't win with Corey Bradford, Jabar Gafney, Mark Bruener, and one of the worst coaching staffs in league history means he can't win at all? I think your burnt orange glasses are making you a little short sighted on this issue.

texanfan2100
03-30-2006, 12:48 PM
You watch how this thing plays out. I LOVE THE TEXANS, but they are going to MAKE a HUGE mistake! They need to admit that David Yugo was NOT WORTHY of a first pick overall. I have no doubt in my mind that Tony Banks or just about any NFL journeymen could have quartebacked them to a 18-46 record over the first 4 years. People always say David needs this, David needs that, It's ALWAYS somebody elses fault.... The OL, the receivers, play calling, coaching, etc..... when will the finger be pointed at DAVID and realize he is part of the PROBLEM and NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION! :deadhorse

I guess we'll find out this season.

Porky
03-30-2006, 12:53 PM
You watch how this thing plays out. I LOVE THE TEXANS, but they are going to MAKE a HUGE mistake! They need to admit that David Yugo was NOT WORTHY of a first pick overall. I have no doubt in my mind that Tony Banks or just about any NFL journeymen could have quartebacked them to a 18-46 record over the first 4 years. People always say David needs this, David needs that, It's ALWAYS somebody elses fault.... The OL, the receivers, play calling, coaching, etc..... when will the finger be pointed at DAVID and realize he is part of the PROBLEM and NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION! :deadhorse

David was PART of the problem. I have no qualms with that statement. Saying he is not part of the solution is just wrong though. You have ZERO idea if he is or isn't yet. I take it your name is not God or Kreskin. He now has the weapons he needs. If he doesn't produce decently, we can get another QB. They have them every year in the draft ya know. Or oh I forgot, VY is the only decent QB to ever hit the draft in the history of the NFL. Ya, we get it already. :brickwall

mike230765
03-30-2006, 12:54 PM
Can we wait and see how the new scheme and new players help David before we continue to blame all of our problems on him? I still don't see how people can blame hime if he doesn't have a line

TexanSam
03-30-2006, 01:08 PM
You watch how this thing plays out. I LOVE THE TEXANS, but they are going to MAKE a HUGE mistake! They need to admit that David Yugo was NOT WORTHY of a first pick overall. I have no doubt in my mind that Tony Banks or just about any NFL journeymen could have quartebacked them to a 18-46 record over the first 4 years. People always say David needs this, David needs that, It's ALWAYS somebody elses fault.... The OL, the receivers, play calling, coaching, etc..... when will the finger be pointed at DAVID and realize he is part of the PROBLEM and NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION! :deadhorse

Well, David Carr did need this and that. Carr hasn't had an offensive line at all in his career. Carr has been sacked 208 times. Harrington was sacked 77 times. You could put God behind center, and he won't be able to work wonders with the protection we had. You're making it sound like it was all Carr's fault. It wasn't. We had AJ as our reciever and no one else. We had no NFL quality tight end. And once again, our O-line. We started Victor Riley for half our games last season. It doesn't get much worse than that. Yes Carr had a terrible season, but to blame it all on him is being stupid and ignorant. And either way, we've signed him to a contract and there's a very, very, very small chance Vince Young will be drafted. Sorry.

el toro
03-30-2006, 01:11 PM
Man, he's going to have a real line and a ton of real options this season. With that arm of his, if he has more than half a second to make a decision he is going to be dangerous...for every defense in this league.

bigTEXan8
03-30-2006, 01:18 PM
I was on the way home yesterday and he brought up an interesting stat on David YUGO and Joey Harrington:
Games JH-58 DY-60

Games started JH-55 DY-58

ATT JH-1802 DY 1628,

COMP. JH-986 DY- 941

PCT. JH-54.7 DY-57.8

Yards JH-10,242 DY-10,624

Yards per Attempt JH-5.68 DY-6.53

LG. JH-86 DY-81

TD'S JH-60 DY-48

INT. JH-62 DY-53

20+ pass plays JH-118 DY-118

40+ pass plays JH-19 DY-18

Passer Rating JH-68.1 DY-73.7

The numbers are scary!!!! They are VERY SIMILAR! One not only loses his job but gets cut..... the other gets a multi-year, multi-million dollar extension. Detroit also won MORE games with Harrington than we won with David Yugo.... please draft VY! :redtowel:

This is really getting sad...sad.

edo783
03-30-2006, 01:22 PM
Man, he's going to have a real line and a ton of real options this season. With that arm of his, if he has more than half a second to make a decision he is going to be dangerous...for every defense in this league.

I'm not sure the "Real Line" thing is not all that certain at this point. The left side and center are looking good, but the right side is still a big question mark IMO. Still have the draft ( an OT in the 2nd and a Gaurd in the 3rd would be good) and possibly a reasonably solid gaurd after the June 1 cuts. We are very thin and shaky at RT gaurd. Wiegert's good, but has proven to be less than relable due to injury and the jury is out on whether Wade or Wand can play RT in the system. One injury to just about ANY of our O-line guys and we will be in seriouse trouble.

michaelm
03-30-2006, 01:22 PM
David Yugo.... please draft VY! :redtowel:


Look, obviously you want us to draft VY. Unfortunately for you, I believe that it will not happen.
We all get your agenda... VY VY VY...

also,

The David Carr as an actual automobile metaphors were old stale and played out long, LONG before you came here to troll for VY.
I'd suggest that you just stop trolloing around here, but I know your type, and I'm pretty sure that you enjoy the attention.
Do yourself a favor and stop with the silly Yugo metaphor... even if you had a valid point (you don't) and even if you did not have an agenda (you do), you weaken your argument with the silly and childish presentation of your idea.

4Texans
03-30-2006, 01:40 PM
Can we wait and see how the new scheme and new players help David before we continue to blame all of our problems on him? I still don't see how people can blame hime if he doesn't have a line

I agree. I think the new coaching staff and scheme is going to do wonders for Carr and the O line.

SnakeOilTanker
03-30-2006, 01:47 PM
You could put God behind center.

Vince Young?

keyfro
03-30-2006, 02:12 PM
i think the main difference between the two is carr actually has the toughness to carry on and become a productive qb like he was two years ago...people keep forgetting that carr threw 3600+yds in 04...granted his TD numbers weren't what you would expect of a 3600+yds season but look at who he had to throw the ball too...a rookie wr...dropford...and gaffney who was underacheiving like a mofo that year

Meloy
03-30-2006, 02:15 PM
Well, David Carr did need this and that. Carr hasn't had an offensive line at all in his career. Carr has been sacked 208 times. Harrington was sacked 77 times. You could put God behind center, and he won't be able to work wonders with the protection we had. You're making it sound like it was all Carr's fault. It wasn't. We had AJ as our reciever and no one else. We had no NFL quality tight end. And once again, our O-line. We started Victor Riley for half our games last season. It doesn't get much worse than that. Yes Carr had a terrible season, but to blame it all on him is being stupid and ignorant. And either way, we've signed him to a contract and there's a very, very, very small chance Vince Young will be drafted. Sorry. Hey! Leave me out of this. Last time I got involved, look what happened to me. Signed, God

tsip
03-30-2006, 02:27 PM
There's a reason Pendry doesn't have a job anywhere right now, and a reason Capers didn't get a HC job with all the openings as well.

Capers could not even get a coordinators job, though several other fired HC did (Hasselett-Tice-Mularkey-Sherman/Asst HC,etc.)

hollywood_texan
03-30-2006, 02:28 PM
2006 season looks to be shaping up for David Carr being expected to win some games and start at least a 3 game winning streak.

A new coach and the personnel moves mean no more excuses.

Which makes me wonder, if Kubiak can draft good running backs in later rounds (the Denver philosophy) and he is relatively comfortable with all other positions, does he take VY as insurance for a quarterback since we are sitting at #1 in the draft?

That's in interesting scenario and would put more pressure on Carr.

WWJD
03-30-2006, 02:32 PM
Capers could not even get a coordinators job, though several other fired HC did (Hasselett-Tice-Mularkey-Sherman/Asst HC,etc.)


Didn't Coach Capers go to the Dolphins as their new DC?

The Dude Abides
03-30-2006, 02:37 PM
Very eloquently said...........:sarcasm:
just give up.

tsip
03-30-2006, 02:39 PM
Carr is easily the better of the two. Not saying he has been great, but clearly he has better physical ability. I still wonder about the mental part of the game for him, but it's very obvious to me that Kubes is surronding him with enough weapons to take any excuses away from him. If he is still miserable, then we will replace him. Not this year, and not with Vince. And of course, the best scenerio is that he steps up and at least gives us decent Quaterbacking.

I've been an advocate for taking 'all' Carr's excuses away so we can see if he's the answer for us at QB. Like many others, I'd love it for Carr to be an ALL-PRO! However, on the other hand, if Carr still fails with all the 'new' things being done for him, the Carr 'lovers' need to accept that and not start making more excuses. From day one IMO we made 2 big mistakes with David--first, he had no competition/no one to learn the 'ropes' from and,second, he was surrounded by excuses instead of expectations.

Please let the blame game be over with-give Carr what he needs-and lets see the results on the field!!

BigBull17
03-30-2006, 02:40 PM
Yes, Dom is the DC of the Dolphins, and look for their D to rock on. He was an excellent DC but he got in over his head as a HC. He also brought his buddies (Pendry) along and really paid for it.

Texanfan4ever
03-30-2006, 02:41 PM
I think jayseed is just jealous of David's hair!!:yahoo: :stirpot:

tsip
03-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Yes, Dom is the DC of the Dolphins, and look for their D to rock on. He was an excellent DC but he got in over his head as a HC. He also brought his buddies (Pendry) along and really paid for it.

http://www.miamidolphins.com/lockerroom/coachingstaff/coachingstaff.asp


Capers is Special Asst to the HC, which is kind of a 'token' job (1 yr contract) for someone waiting for a better offer.

tsip
03-30-2006, 02:48 PM
Didn't Coach Capers go to the Dolphins as their new DC?


see post #46

thunderkyss
03-30-2006, 02:59 PM
Let's see how established Detroit was... in 2001 they were 2-14, the Texans were NON-Existent....
2002 Houston goes 4-12..... the "established NFL team" goes 3-13

2003 Both teams go 5-11

2004 Houston goes 7-9..... Detroit with all its talent goes 6-10

2005 Houston goes 2-14..... JH wins 150% more games than David Yugo ( 5 wins ) and he gets cut!

This must be the Board of The David Yugo family.... CALL A DUCK A DUCK!!!!! 4 years....that was his "learning" time..... now he gets a new system..... guess he gets to draw ANOTHER 4 years worth of paychecks before anybody will hold him accountable. :brickwall


Man, look at the success Brooks has had in N.O., compared to Carr, and look what they did to him.

Joey has more INTs than David Carr, so does Bret Favre, Steve McNair, and a slew of other QBs......... does that make Carr better than all of them, or is he just more likely to take a sack??

The only stat we have, to judge an Oline, is sacks allowed. Any 5 guys sitting in front of Carr is at a huge disadvantage to the rest of the league. 5 years running, there hasn't been a large turnaround on our OLine. Through two different coaches. You can't say we don't have talent, especially when one of our draft picks get signed in the first week of FA to start for another team. Another draft pick gets signed as a WR.

Then you look at all the WRs Detroit has...... very rarely on the field at the same time. It's not like he had three #1 picks to throw the ball to....... at the same time, it never happened.

I don't think Harrington got a raw deal though. I'm glad he is getting out of Detroit. I don't think the cowboy fans are going to think too highly of him, but I'm confident he will proove them wrong.

Carr too. I think it is detrimental to his career to stay in Houston 2 more years. He needs to make a clean break, and start new while he still can. 7 years of what we've given him will ruin him IMHO.

I can't explain it. But I think he can turn it around for another team, but can't turn it around on the same team.

Grid
03-30-2006, 03:12 PM
Your post = YP

Times that a post like YP has been posted: 5,000,000,001
Worth of YP: $0
Validity of YP: 0
Chance that YP is by a UT homer: 99.99999%
Chance that YP is by someone who cares about the Texans: 0.00001%
Chance that this is the last worthless post on the subject: 0%

The numbers are SCARY! Dont ever post here again!

Fiddy
03-30-2006, 03:26 PM
I love how y'all say Harrington went to an established team "loaded with talent." Charles Rogers has never been on the field an entire season, Roy Williams has missed a lot of time in his two years, Mike Williams was playing last year having not played football at all for a year. It would have helped Harrington if that "talent" could acually play.

I've said it before: the only difference between Carr and Harrington is Harrington's coaches were never shy to bench him.

FirstTexansFan
03-30-2006, 03:29 PM
Well this blows the YP to confederate dollar exchange rate through the roof, thanks Grid LOL

michaelm
03-30-2006, 03:35 PM
I'd suggest that you just stop trolloing around here


Very eloquently said...........:sarcasm:


Oh my goodness, my finger hit the o and the i while trying to type a word.
I give... you're right about everything...:sarcasm:


p.s. $100.00 says you were very careful to spell check the word 'eloquently' before you posted... lol

jacquescas
03-30-2006, 04:08 PM
i've gone and collected everyone's :twocents: on this debate and i've been able to pay down the national debt. Thanks everyone for helping america :superman: .

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 04:44 PM
I love how y'all say Harrington went to an established team "loaded with talent." Charles Rogers has never been on the field an entire season, Roy Williams has missed a lot of time in his two years, Mike Williams was playing last year having not played football at all for a year. It would have helped Harrington if that "talent" could acually play.

I've said it before: the only difference between Carr and Harrington is Harrington's coaches were never shy to bench him.

Yeah, you have said it before and once again you are ignoring tons of other advantages. Let's see how about an offensive minded head coach running a WCO, a 1st round RB, a total of 7 1st round draft picks playing on O including 2 playing on the OL such as the LT vs. 2 (Carr and AJ) with Carr playing behind horrible coaching. One of the coaching mysteries of the world is going to be why a defensive minded coach meddled horribly with his OC but let his DC pansy them both out of a job. Acting as if AJ equals all the advantages Harrington had even if the WR's haven't panned out (despite still playing more games total than AJ has) is specious.

Nighthawk
03-30-2006, 04:52 PM
Acting as if AJ equals all the advantages Harrington had even if the WR's haven't panned out (despite still playing more games total than AJ has) is specious.

Speaking of specious . . . another thread full of Carr excuses. Why don't you guys just face the music? Kubiak MAY be able to turn Carr into a journeyman-quality QB. If he is, call yourself lucky.

Look for a QB in '07.

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 04:58 PM
Speaking of specious . . . another thread full of Carr excuses. Why don't you guys just face the music? Kubiak MAY be able to turn Carr into a journeyman-quality QB. If he is, call yourself lucky.

Look for a QB in '07.

Oh look, another off-topic, redundant Carr bashing thread.

thunderkyss
03-30-2006, 05:28 PM
Yeah, you have said it before and once again you are ignoring tons of other advantages. Let's see how about an offensive minded head coach running a WCO, a 1st round RB, a total of 7 1st round draft picks playing on O including 2 playing on the OL such as the LT vs. 2 (Carr and AJ) with Carr playing behind horrible coaching. One of the coaching mysteries of the world is going to be why a defensive minded coach meddled horribly with his OC but let his DC pansy them both out of a job. Acting as if AJ equals all the advantages Harrington had even if the WR's haven't panned out (despite still playing more games total than AJ has) is specious.

Fine, let's say harrington had all the advantages........... What happened to Batch?? What happened to Garcia?? WHat happened to any QB that tried to play their?? Has there ever been a succesful QB in Detroit??

No one is saying David had it better than Joey............ but that Joey had it as bad........... different situations, but neither were good.

Rewsky
03-30-2006, 05:32 PM
Typically, a QB gets a majority of the blame when the team loses & a majority of the praise if they win.

David Carr is at least partially responsible for his play his first four seasons, so he should be open to some criticism. Why does this surprise some of you?

I mean, If Carr gets 0% of the blame right now for losing, he should get 0% of the credit when the team plays well right? I just want to keep things consistent.

What happens if Carr underperforms next year? Will you guys at least think of new excuses to throw around? It's the fault of the O-line, coaches, (enter name of 2007 scapegoat here).

Also, does any other player get the benefit of the excuse gravy train? How come nobody made excuses for Matt Stevens or Phillip Buchanon? They couldn't help the fact that we had no pass rush. How could anyone expect them to cover a WR for more than 6 or 7 seconds? It's all the D-line & coaches fault. So, they shouldn't be held responsible either.

Grid
03-30-2006, 06:11 PM
I personally just think that people should think logically...instead of following some set of illogical guidelines about who you should be blaming when the team does well..or praising when they do poorly.

That way.. we are having intelligent conversations instead of ignoring facts so that we can spread around insults and point fingers.

Untamed Guerillaz
03-30-2006, 06:15 PM
DC is garbage plain and simple......thank you for listening and for all of yall who dont like it please ask me if i care?

Fiddy
03-30-2006, 06:29 PM
Yeah, you have said it before and once again you are ignoring tons of other advantages. Let's see how about an offensive minded head coach running a WCO, a 1st round RB, a total of 7 1st round draft picks playing on O including 2 playing on the OL such as the LT vs. 2 (Carr and AJ) with Carr playing behind horrible coaching. One of the coaching mysteries of the world is going to be why a defensive minded coach meddled horribly with his OC but let his DC pansy them both out of a job. Acting as if AJ equals all the advantages Harrington had even if the WR's haven't panned out (despite still playing more games total than AJ has) is specious. Davis has been just have, if not more, productive than Jones so yes, Harrington had a 1st round back, Carr had the more productive back.

I don't understand this reasoning that because the WRs played more total games then AJ, it is an advantage. AJ and Gaffney (109) played in more games than Rogers, M.Williams and R.Williams (56) so was Gaff more of an advantage? He defintely was more productive then both M.Williams and Rogers.

So minus himself, the WRs who have been useless with two being outperformed by a WR that barely saw a read goes his way and a first round RB that was outperformed by a 4th round running back, Harrington had a first round LT. Woo-hoo.

And dont forget that Harrington was not the only one to play the quarterback position horribly, no one who stepped in when he was benched did either.

So yes, Harrington had a line (he also probably had more pocket presence than Carr has, but that's another subject) but if all you needed was a line to win in the NFL I would figure that the top picks in every NFL draft would be offensive lineman. Harrington had nothing to work with on the field, the trainers room held all the talent.

texansfan88
03-30-2006, 06:31 PM
So yes, Harrington had a line (he also probably had more pocket presence than Carr has, but that's another subject) .

There you go again O... Bush is coming to houston, get over it partner.. see ya tonight

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 06:31 PM
Fine, let's say harrington had all the advantages........... What happened to Batch?? What happened to Garcia?? WHat happened to any QB that tried to play their?? Has there ever been a succesful QB in Detroit??

No one is saying David had it better than Joey............ but that Joey had it as bad........... different situations, but neither were good.

Didn't say Harrington had all the advantages or played on a good team but IMO it is silly to act like he had it as bad as Carr either--neither was in a good situation but Harrington's was a better version of bad. In addition, even if you won't admit the actual results were better surrounding Harrington, they certainly tried more to make that O work.

What happened to Batch?--you mean other than playing for a not so good to bad team built around Barry Sanders right after Sanders retired? What happened to Jeff Garcia?--nothing special it doesn't appear--he was the same mediocre QB who in subsequent years has been let go by the 49ers, Browns and now Lions.

titan hater
03-30-2006, 06:36 PM
I will answer that for him- AAAHHH Vince Young.

I was hopping to avoid another VY discussion....

He's not coming to H-Town...Looks like da Oakland Radiers....

thunderkyss
03-30-2006, 06:46 PM
Didn't say Harrington had all the advantages or played on a good team but IMO it is silly to act like he had it as bad as Carr either--neither was in a good situation but Harrington's was a better version of bad. In addition, even if you won't admit the actual results were better surrounding Harrington, they certainly tried more to make that O work.

What happened to Batch?--you mean other than playing for a not so good to bad team built around Barry Sanders right after Sanders retired? What happened to Jeff Garcia?--nothing special it doesn't appear--he was the same mediocre QB who in subsequent years has been let go by the 49ers, Browns and now Lions.

I'm not too upset about the situation. I think Joey deserved another shot, a legit shot in Detroit. I think he got that when Martz evaluated him, and named him his guy. Joey didn't like the situation, and wanted out........... So my argument, if Carr deserves another shot, then Joey does too, is satisfied. The Lions were going to give him his shot.

So Joeys better.. bad situation vs Carr's bad situation argument is moot as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe the NFL has seen what these two QBs can really do. I'll leave it at that.

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 06:47 PM
So minus himself, the WRs who have been useless with two being outperformed by a WR that barely saw a read goes his way and a first round RB that was outperformed by a 4th round running back, Harrington had a first round LT. Woo-hoo.

You mean other than an offensive guru head coach (which you keep ignoring) two 1st round OLmen (by the way, the Detroit Lions OL's pass protection ranked 1st in two of the 4 years he was QB vs. the Texans' which ranked 32nd twice) oh and a 1st round TE.

Let's see the Texans this off-season have added a offensive minded head coach, a solid C and an upgrade TE. Guess all of that is woo-hoo for both teams' O's.

So yes, Harrington had a line (he also probably had more pocket presence than Carr has, but that's another subject) but if all you needed was a line to win in the NFL I would figure that the top picks in every NFL draft would be offensive lineman.

Well nice to see you will concede at least the obvious--Harrington had a better OL. Of course the implication that it is of no advantage is pretty silly.

Harrington had nothing to work with on the field, the trainers room held all the talent.

OK--I guess Rogers was all the talent on the team. Sure he was--he is the only 1st rounder who has missed a substantial amount of time due to injury--more than say DD.

Fiddy
03-30-2006, 06:55 PM
You mean other than an offensive guru head coach (which you keep ignoring) two 1st round OLmen (by the way, the Detroit Lions OL's pass protection ranked 1st in two of the 4 years he was QB vs. the Texans' which ranked 32nd twice) oh and a 1st round TE. I honestly dont remember correctly, but didnt the offensive guru Mooch get fired midway through the season???

Well nice to see you will concede at least the obvious--Harrington had a better OL. Of course the implication that it is of no advantage is pretty silly. I didnt say it was no advantage, you've just made it the be-all-end-all circumstance. It sounds like if a QB has a good O-line then there is no reason to fail.

OK--I guess Rogers was all the talent on the team. Sure he was--he is the only 1st rounder who has missed a substantial amount of time due to injury--more than say DD. You're forgetting that Roy Williams was always less than a 100% with ankle problems and may have started a lot of games, but didnt finish all those games. And you've made it sound like these 1st rounders that Detriot has are no miss prospects who only failed because of Harrington.

dbspi
03-30-2006, 06:55 PM
Texans acquire Molds from Buffallo.

http://www.790kbme.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=121311&article=395219

http://sports.espn.go.com/NFL/news/story?id=2390132

infantrycak
03-30-2006, 07:02 PM
I honestly dont remember correctly, but didnt the offensive guru Mooch get fired midway through the season???

Yeah, midway thru Harrington's 4th year. Are you honestly acting as if Mooch isn't a better coach to develop a QB than Capers?

I didnt say it was no advantage, you've just made it the be-all-end-all circumstance. It sounds like if a QB has a good O-line then there is no reason to fail.

Sorry, BS--I listed it as one of a number of items--in otherwords the opposite of a be-all-end-all circumstance. Simple rule which is really pretty incontrovertable--better OL makes it easier for a QB to develop. Doesn't mean every QB will succeed but it is a better situation--care to dispute that proposition?

And you've made it sound like these 1st rounders that Detriot has are no miss prospects who only failed because of Harrington.

Find anything that remotely resembles that in anything I posted.

Erratic Assassin
03-30-2006, 08:43 PM
I'm not sure the "Real Line" thing is not all that certain at this point.

How do we go from being the worst line in the NFL to a "real line" overnight. We picked up an injury-prone senior citizen to play center. That doesn't make me feel better.

If our experience with Tony Boselli, Gary Walker, and Seth Payne hasn't taught us what to expect, nothing will. Yeah, they'd be fantastic if they weren't wearing their street clothes on the sideline. But I already know what everyone is thinking...that won't happen to us THIS time. THIS injury-prone medicare recipient won't get injured. Unlike every other human being on earth, he will actually get healthier and MORE durable as he gets older.

cuppacoffee
03-30-2006, 08:44 PM
I was on the way home yesterday and he brought up an interesting stat on David YUGO and Joey Harrington:
Games JH-58 DY-60

Games started JH-55 DY-58

ATT JH-1802 DY 1628,

COMP. JH-986 DY- 941

PCT. JH-54.7 DY-57.8

Yards JH-10,242 DY-10,624

Yards per Attempt JH-5.68 DY-6.53

LG. JH-86 DY-81

TD'S JH-60 DY-48

INT. JH-62 DY-53

20+ pass plays JH-118 DY-118

40+ pass plays JH-19 DY-18

Passer Rating JH-68.1 DY-73.7

The numbers are scary!!!! They are VERY SIMILAR! One not only loses his job but gets cut..... the other gets a multi-year, multi-million dollar extension. Detroit also won MORE games with Harrington than we won with David Yugo.... please draft VY! :redtowel:

When I hear jayseed why do I think hayseed?...:)
It's fun changing peoples names to make a point isn't it?

Who is the he you are referring to that brought it up?

Your stats prove just what? That DC can generate equal/better stats and earn a better QB rating playing for an expansion team than JH did playing for an established NFL team.

Give it up! Every possible excuse has been given by the vy lovers why he should be drafted by the Texans. Bottom line, vy is not even the best qb in this draft, definitely not the #1 draft choice. :pigfly:

I swore not to respond to any more vy threads and managed to last over three weeks, but gawd the orangeglasses are relentless...:deadhorse

Maybe I can last another three weeks without responding again to vy lovers.

And yes...I am in Carrs' corner, especially when it comes to detractors who don't seem to have a clue on their own and just quote some stats that don't prove a thing.

bkimble
03-30-2006, 08:46 PM
DC is garbage plain and simple......thank you for listening and for all of yall who dont like it please ask me if i care?

no no no, he's worse than garbage. And I'm sick of his enablers. watch his eyes, he is afraid in the game.
:redtowel:

Fiddy
03-30-2006, 10:40 PM
Yeah, midway thru Harrington's 4th year. Are you honestly acting as if Mooch isn't a better coach to develop a QB than Capers? No, I'm just saying an offensive guru will have trouble with any QB if that QB doesnt have anyone to rely on...

Sorry, BS--I listed it as one of a number of items--in otherwords the opposite of a be-all-end-all circumstance. Simple rule which is really pretty incontrovertable--better OL makes it easier for a QB to develop. Doesn't mean every QB will succeed but it is a better situation--care to dispute that proposition? You listed the fact they had 7 first rounders (the majority of those have problems) and a west coast offense with an offensive guru (coaches got canned). It's clearly easier to develop with a good o-line, I'm just saying that a good o-line isnt everything.

Find anything that remotely resembles that in anything I posted. I got that assumption by you bringing up the fact that they had 7 first rounders on offense. You never pointed out that 3 (the WRs) of the 7 first rounders have their own problems, like staying healthy and that another one (Jones) had a sophomore slump. You said Harrington had a better supporting cast, but it's hard to have a better supporting cast when they are all in the trainers room or just can't play on the field.

Grid
03-30-2006, 11:30 PM
no no no, he's worse than garbage. And I'm sick of his enablers. watch his eyes, he is afraid in the game.
:redtowel:

:rolleyes:

boy i hope you were joking. Either that, or you spent a FORTUNE on some awesome binoculars.

Koolbrz
03-31-2006, 12:59 AM
Let's see how established Detroit was... in 2001 they were 2-14, the Texans were NON-Existent....
2002 Houston goes 4-12..... the "established NFL team" goes 3-13

2003 Both teams go 5-11

2004 Houston goes 7-9..... Detroit with all its talent goes 6-10

2005 Houston goes 2-14..... JH wins 150% more games than David Yugo ( 5 wins ) and he gets cut!

This must be the Board of The David Yugo family.... CALL A DUCK A DUCK!!!!! 4 years....that was his "learning" time..... now he gets a new system..... guess he gets to draw ANOTHER 4 years worth of paychecks before anybody will hold him accountable. :brickwall


You are going to eat your words after this yr. DC will be a much improved player. He now has some weapons to use. Compare this recieving corp to last yrs. Hell Yeah!! We had some talent. Doesn't get any better than Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, and AJ. LOL...AJ is the only exception. We now have a recieving corps we can be proud of. AJ, Moulds, Walters or whatever his name is. Don't you dare cheer DC on when he is whippin up on the opposing team. Remember how you have dogged him this offseason and EAT YOUR WORDS!!

Hervoyel
03-31-2006, 01:08 AM
You are going to eat your words after this yr. DC will be a much improved player.

No, he won't eat his words. He'll do one of two things if David Carr turns into a much improved player this year. He'll either vanish in a puff of smoke and never be seen again using that login or he'll find something to complain about and keep right on complaining. That's the nature of this kind of poster. It doesn't change.

thunderkyss
03-31-2006, 11:51 AM
I refuse to believe that Detroit has a better team than Houston. I don't care if they had signed T.O. , Marvin Harris, Peyton Manning, with McNabb as backup, Larry Allen LeCharles Bently, OPace, LT, Shaun Alexander, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Lavar Arrington, Ray lewis, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, Terrence Newman, Deltha Oneal, Roy Williams, John Lynch, and the best of the rest to fill out the team. They could have Belecheck as their DC, Mike Martz as their OC, & Mike Holmgren/shanahan as co-headcoaches.


and they will still not be a better team than the Houston Texans. If that franchise was around for 25 years, they would have sucked for 26 years. that's how bad it is in Detroit. Never was nothing, never will be.

Texan Asylum
03-31-2006, 11:55 AM
I refuse to believe that Detroit has a better team than Houston. I don't care if they had signed T.O. , Marvin Harris, Peyton Manning, with McNabb as backup, Larry Allen LeCharles Bently, OPace, LT, Shaun Alexander, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Lavar Arrington, Ray lewis, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, Terrence Newman, Deltha Oneal, Roy Williams, John Lynch, and the best of the rest to fill out the team. They could have Belecheck as their DC, Mike Martz as their OC, & Mike Holmgren/shanahan as co-headcoaches.


and they will still not be a better team than the Houston Texans. If that franchise was around for 25 years, they would have sucked for 26 years. that's how bad it is in Detroit. Never was nothing, never will be.
Detroit needs Nugent to be their Head Coach. Perhaps they could then play something.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
03-31-2006, 12:28 PM
I refuse to believe that Detroit has a better team than Houston. I don't care if they had signed T.O. , Marvin Harris, Peyton Manning, with McNabb as backup, Larry Allen LeCharles Bently, OPace, LT, Shaun Alexander, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Lavar Arrington, Ray lewis, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, Terrence Newman, Deltha Oneal, Roy Williams, John Lynch, and the best of the rest to fill out the team. They could have Belecheck as their DC, Mike Martz as their OC, & Mike Holmgren/shanahan as co-headcoaches.

and they will still not be a better team than the Houston Texans. If that franchise was around for 25 years, they would have sucked for 26 years. that's how bad it is in Detroit. Never was nothing, never will be.

I know the sarcasm, but I really thing they would have a better team if they signed the above players you mentioned.

SnakeOilTanker
03-31-2006, 04:13 PM
:crying: waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaa I want Vince waaaaaaaaaa David is a poopy head! I hate him! He stole my lunch money! waaaaaaaaaaaaaa Vince is a hero because he lives in the city I do, I'm never watching the texans again waaaaaaaaa

get over it, we are keeping carr, not drafting vince

feel free to cry some more :crying:

Oilers/Texans
04-01-2006, 11:36 AM
The numbers are scary!!!! They are VERY SIMILAR! One not only loses his job but gets cut..... the other gets a multi-year, multi-million dollar extension. Detroit also won MORE games with Harrington than we won with David Yugo.... please draft VY! :redtowel:

Just stop it, you are embarassing yourself!!

Bobo
04-01-2006, 11:40 AM
Are you just getting this info? They have been harping on this for months now. The difference is that Carr started out with an expansion team while Harrington went with a team that was much more established and had a stronger core than the Texans did. Those numbers you quoted are only valid if you are playing fantasy football.

Texan Asylum
04-01-2006, 11:50 AM
SnakeOilTanker:
:crying: waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaa I want Vince waaaaaaaaaa David is a poopy head!

Now that's funny.

TexanSam
04-01-2006, 11:52 AM
If David Yugo can turn into an "average" quarterback I will be elated. Nothing like having somebody behind center that has a job of "not to lose the game" and let all of the talent around him win the game. Seems like a fair return for the small salary he receives. GOOD quaterbacks make players around him BETTER...... David Yugo does not do that.

All these excuses as to why David Carr suposedly sucks and what not are getting kind of old. I've defended him my fair share. For all you David Carr haters and Vince Young homers, face it, David Carr is our QB for the next 3 years. Some of us like the idea, some of us don't, but the writing's on the wall. I just can't wait until the draft gets closer and I'm sure the VY fans will be coming in full force again...

Ibar_Harry
04-01-2006, 01:03 PM
Are you just getting this info? They have been harping on this for months now. The difference is that Carr started out with an expansion team while Harrington went with a team that was much more established and had a stronger core than the Texans did. Those numbers you quoted are only valid if you are playing fantasy football.

This goes back to the draft and the Harrington fans never got over how a Fresno State dude could become the number 1 pick over their guy. They have gone on and on. The common bond is both were taught by Tedford the former Fresno State player, CFL player, qb coach, and now head coach of Cal.
Its the Pac 10 vs WACC image factor. Oh well, you will see a lot more of it before its over.

Carr could win the SB and they would say their guy is still better he just never got the opportunity. Perhaps they should all go and take Piano lessons from Harrington. May be then they would sing a different tune.

Bobo
04-01-2006, 01:14 PM
The bottom line is this: David Carr is NOT the problem with this team. He threw for more than 3,000 yards on three-year-old team and helped take them to the cusp of .500. Don't give him better receivers because it won't do him any good if he can't get the ball off before the opposing rush is all over him. The problem on the offense has been the line ever since Boselli failed to pan out. It's that plain and simple. So stop fronting for Vince Young by bashing Carr -- it's as transparent as cellophane.

AustinJB
04-01-2006, 03:40 PM
The bottom line is this: David Carr is NOT the problem with this team. He threw for more than 3,000 yards on three-year-old team and helped take them to the cusp of .500. Don't give him better receivers because it won't do him any good if he can't get the ball off before the opposing rush is all over him. The problem on the offense has been the line ever since Boselli failed to pan out. It's that plain and simple. So stop fronting for Vince Young by bashing Carr -- it's as transparent as cellophane.

I will concede that Carr is not the ONLY problem w/ our team, but he IS definately one of the problems w/ this team. If you don't think so, then I don't know what you've been watching.

I'm not saying that Carr can't improve...I hope to God that he can b/c it looks like he'll be our QB for another three years....I just have my doubts.

tsip
04-01-2006, 06:26 PM
The bottom line is this: David Carr is NOT the problem with this team. He threw for more than 3,000 yards on three-year-old team and helped take them to the cusp of .500. Don't give him better receivers because it won't do him any good if he can't get the ball off before the opposing rush is all over him. The problem on the offense has been the line ever since Boselli failed to pan out. It's that plain and simple. So stop fronting for Vince Young by bashing Carr -- it's as transparent as cellophane.

It's been said many times on this board that 2004 was a 'tale' of two halves(or close to it) for Carr--1st 7 games were great (over 2,000yds) and the last 9 were bad, culminating in the finale game against the Browns. I believe the 'Carr Lovers' and the 'VY Lovers' have similarities, as both see only what they want to see. Carr's destiny is already determined if he fails to live up to expectations, as the "Carr Lovers' will blame the team---never ever, under any circumstance, will these people point a finger at Carr as most will 'fade into the sunset.' Of course, if Carr does good this year, the 'Lovers' will remind us about it every day as long as this forum exists.