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View Full Version : Who else believes in taking the best player available?


phan1
03-30-2006, 08:42 AM
Because I sure do, and I'm totally against spot-filling with the first pick in the draft of any kind. Unless the best player available will still be a backup with your first pick in the draft, your pick him, QB not included. And in this year's draft, I believe the best player are: Reggie Bush, Mario Williams, and Matt Lienhart. And Matt Lienhart is out for us because of obvious reasons. I want to add Vernon Davis to the list, but you've got to have more than phenominal combine numbers to consider yourself the best player in the draft. D'Brick is good, but he's by no means the best player in the draft, and I really don't care how bad we need a LT.

This pretty much leaves Bush or Williams. I don't really care which one we pick as long as we pick based on what we believe to be the best player available in the 2006 draft.

The reason I believe so much in picking the best player availabe is because players have become pretty expendable, so we've got to always make an effort to draft gamebreakers that are not expendable to your team. With FA, if you have a liability at a certain position, it's pretty easy to plug in your holes. We needed some Olineman, a TE, some WRs, and some DEs. You know what? We went out and got some. :) Plugging holes in your team is easy. But if you want a Randy Moss, a Ladanian Tomlinson, an Orlando Pace, good luck, cause you're definitely going to need it.

This is why I didn't like Travis Johnson as our first pick, as it was obvioulsy a "need/filler" pick. I'm sure he's going to be a good contributor to our new 4-3 D, but you don't use a filler with the 1st pick in the draft. You just don't.

I mean c'mon guys. VY as the 1st pick of the 2006 draft?!? You can't be serious. I don't care if he turns out to be a incredible QB either, cause hindsight is 20/20, and VY is clearly not the best player in this year's draft as of now. To devalue your pick in the best draft in years based on need or pure potential is stupid!

And I don't care if we've been drafting Running Backs left and right the past couple years either. If Bush is the best player in the draft, and he's not going to play a back-up role, than we draft him. And if we're too deep at Running Back, than let some guys go. Enough with this "Bush doesn't fit with our team needs" junk because if he's the best player, than we take him. Easy. Unless we run a system where we don't need running backs half the time, there's just no reason not to take him IF he's the best player.

Of course, we could trade down and get some more help, but I think that's unlikely as teams seem to really value their picks in this year's deep draft. But I'm not against the trade-down option. I think we still could take Vince with our first if we traded dwown. But most importantly, I don't believe in doing devaluing our pick in any way. If we draft VY or DBrick with the 1st overall pick, than we've got to be the stupidest organization on the face of the earth.

dalemurphy
03-30-2006, 09:17 AM
Ferguson is the top player in this draft, IMO... He is the highest rated OLman to come out in years. Ferguson will likely play at a high level for 12-15 years. Bush will play at a high level for probably 4 or 5.

BeReal
03-30-2006, 10:38 AM
I mostly agree w/ Phan1. IMO talent and value should be a teams priorties when entering a draft. The Texans have clearly set themselves up in the draft to grab as much talent as possible.

You plug holes w/ free agency, and you build a team through the draft. That's how I see it.

Maybe I need to watch more of Ferguson, but I see him as simply a solid LT, nothing to write home about.

Maddict5
03-30-2006, 10:46 AM
i agree with BPA to some extent... still think we should take o-line and db's in the first few rounds-with reggie #1

jerek
03-30-2006, 10:55 AM
Ferguson is the top player in this draft, IMO... He is the highest rated OLman to come out in years. Ferguson will likely play at a high level for 12-15 years. Bush will play at a high level for probably 4 or 5.

4 or 5? Isn't that selling the guy a little short?

Said it before, will chip in again here. I love Williams but I don't see our FO having the balls to draft him, and I haven't heard much in the way of us pursuing him hard. I am pretty sure Reggie is gonna be a Texan come April 29.

El Amigo Invisible
03-30-2006, 10:56 AM
D' Brick will not solve our line problems(LT) right away. It will take him atleast a year to develop at RT .We needed to address the LT situation first( I wish they had in FA).We might as well have two stud QB's because with our line, they will be seeing stars (Not talking about the Cowboys either). David will be lucky to make it half way through the season or whoever we pick to be QB.

Poor TJ .:brickwall We drafted him the the first so way too much was expected of him .

Maddict5
03-30-2006, 10:59 AM
Ferguson is the top player in this draft, IMO... He is the highest rated OLman to come out in years. Ferguson will likely play at a high level for 12-15 years. Bush will play at a high level for probably 4 or 5.

you do realise you're saying he wil be washed up by the age of 26???:confused: :rolleyes:

TheOgre
03-30-2006, 11:05 AM
D' Brick will not solve our line problems(LT) right away. It will take him atleast a year to develop at RT .We needed to address the LT situation first( I wish they had in FA).We might as well have two stud QB's because with our line, they will be seeing stars (Not talking about the Cowboys either).

D'Brick is a left tackle only. His attributes are so geared to LT, and he would struggle anywhere else. He has zero business playing any other position on the line. He is the only tackle in this draft that really would start at LT over Pitts this season. The rest of the tackles should start at RT and then POSSIBLY move over at a later date.

swtbound07
03-30-2006, 11:41 AM
Because I sure do, and I'm totally against spot-filling with the first pick in the draft of any kind. Unless the best player available will still be a backup with your first pick in the draft, your pick him, QB not included. And in this year's draft, I believe the best player are: Reggie Bush, Mario Williams, and Matt Lienhart. And Matt Lienhart is out for us because of obvious reasons. I want to add Vernon Davis to the list, but you've got to have more than phenominal combine numbers to consider yourself the best player in the draft. D'Brick is good, but he's by no means the best player in the draft, and I really don't care how bad we need a LT.

This pretty much leaves Bush or Williams. I don't really care which one we pick as long as we pick based on what we believe to be the best player available in the 2006 draft.

The reason I believe so much in picking the best player availabe is because players have become pretty expendable, so we've got to always make an effort to draft gamebreakers that are not expendable to your team. With FA, if you have a liability at a certain position, it's pretty easy to plug in your holes. We needed some Olineman, a TE, some WRs, and some DEs. You know what? We went out and got some. :) Plugging holes in your team is easy. But if you want a Randy Moss, a Ladanian Tomlinson, an Orlando Pace, good luck, cause you're definitely going to need it.

This is why I didn't like Travis Johnson as our first pick, as it was obvioulsy a "need/filler" pick. I'm sure he's going to be a good contributor to our new 4-3 D, but you don't use a filler with the 1st pick in the draft. You just don't.

I mean c'mon guys. VY as the 1st pick of the 2006 draft?!? You can't be serious. I don't care if he turns out to be a incredible QB either, cause hindsight is 20/20, and VY is clearly not the best player in this year's draft as of now. To devalue your pick in the best draft in years based on need or pure potential is stupid!

And I don't care if we've been drafting Running Backs left and right the past couple years either. If Bush is the best player in the draft, and he's not going to play a back-up role, than we draft him. And if we're too deep at Running Back, than let some guys go. Enough with this "Bush doesn't fit with our team needs" junk because if he's the best player, than we take him. Easy. Unless we run a system where we don't need running backs half the time, there's just no reason not to take him IF he's the best player.

Of course, we could trade down and get some more help, but I think that's unlikely as teams seem to really value their picks in this year's deep draft. But I'm not against the trade-down option. I think we still could take Vince with our first if we traded dwown. But most importantly, I don't believe in doing devaluing our pick in any way. If we draft VY or DBrick with the 1st overall pick, than we've got to be the stupidest organization on the face of the earth.



Hindsight may be 20/20, but what about all of us who are saying he will be great before hand. Thats called foresight isnt it? Just dont come saying "reggie was the best player available, nobody could have seen him busting". Well.....I did.

Maddict5
03-30-2006, 11:43 AM
Hindsight may be 20/20, but what about all of us who are saying he will be great before hand. Thats called foresight isnt it? Just dont come saying "reggie was the best player available, nobody could have seen him busting". Well.....I did.

theres people out there that think jay cutler will be great....do they have great foresight???


edit: il remember that 'quote' and we'll see in a few years

swtbound07
03-30-2006, 11:46 AM
theres people out there that think jay cutler will be great....do they have great foresight???


edit: il remember that 'quote' and we'll see in a few years


If your seeing something and willing to back it as a conviction, and it happens...yes, you have foresight. Seeing something that nobody else does before it happens=foresight. If you get enough of them right, maybe people will listen to you in the future

Maddict5
03-30-2006, 12:04 PM
all i was saying is alot of people who like somebody think they have foresight- and then if it backfires/doesnt work out....they skulk away..wait a while and then come along with another piece of foresight.

i meant that il remember what you said and if you're right il congratulate you on your foresight..if not, you'll hear about that too

swtbound07
03-30-2006, 12:13 PM
all i was saying is alot of people who like somebody think they have foresight- and then if it backfires/doesnt work out....they skulk away..wait a while and then come along with another piece of foresight.

i meant that il remember what you said and if you're right il congratulate you on your foresight..if not, you'll hear about that too

Thats the thing about me.....Im an adult, and i'll be the first one in line standing behind my predictions, be they good, or be they bad. Nobody wanted to listen to me when i said anquan boldin was going to be a beast, but at the same time, i was also one of the ones who thought that sean taylor was the missing link for the texans. You win some, you lose some, i just dont like people who change their positions after the fact.

Maddict5
03-30-2006, 12:21 PM
Thats the thing about me.....Im an adult, and i'll be the first one in line standing behind my predictions, be they good, or be they bad. Nobody wanted to listen to me when i said anquan boldin was going to be a beast, but at the same time, i was also one of the ones who thought that sean taylor was the missing link for the texans. You win some, you lose some, i just dont like people who change their positions after the fact.

good. glad you'll take accountability if you make a wrong prediction,unlike others, although to be honest that sounds like 2 winners to me- whatever about his off the field roblems, hes still a beast on it

nunusguy
03-30-2006, 12:39 PM
Ferguson is the top player in this draft, IMO... He is the highest rated OLman to come out in years. Ferguson will likely play at a high level for 12-15 years. Bush will play at a high level for probably 4 or 5.
Just like Robert Gallery, taken #2 overall in 2004 and more highly rated than Ferguson, will likely play at a high level for years ?
What if we drafted this guy and he couldn't beat out Chester at LT ? He probably can't play another position on the OL besides LT, so that's potentially a huge down side to consider. He would be an awfully expensive
backup for Chester.
Darrly Tapp did a number on Ferguson in their college game in the Fall and
in that Senior Bowl practices. This guys has his share of issues on the field !

phan1
03-30-2006, 12:46 PM
Just like Robert Gallery, taken #2 overall in 2004 and more highly rated than Ferguson, will likely play at a high level for years ?
What if we drafted this guy and he couldn't beat out Chester at LT ? He probably can't play another position on the OL besides LT, so that's potentially a huge down side to consider. He would be an awfully expensive
backup for Chester.
Darrly Tapp did a number on Ferguson in their college game in the Fall and
in that Senior Bowl practices. This guys has his share of issues on the field !


Good point. I haven't kept up with Robert Gallery so far, but he has not been worth the #2 pick if he's still playing the RT position. And from what I know, D'Brick is only average in the running game, so he's really a pure LT. You've got to be nothing short of an Orlando Pace to be considered the best player in this year's draft.

Cupps
03-31-2006, 05:33 AM
Good point. I haven't kept up with Robert Gallery so far, but he has not been worth the #2 pick if he's still playing the RT position. And from what I know, D'Brick is only average in the running game, so he's really a pure LT. You've got to be nothing short of an Orlando Pace to be considered the best player in this year's draft.

I've read several articles comparing Ferguson to Pace and claiming he's the best O-Lineman to come out since the Pancake Man.

Sure D'Brick's not perfect. Bush isn't. VY isn't. Anybody we draft is gonna be at least a small gamble.

However, we have a RB. We have a QB. Like it or not. What we do NOT have, and what we need more than anything else is an O-Line. Nobody can argue that. Plus, look at some recent O-lineman taken in the draft:

2003-Jordan Gross by Carolina: Despite losing Davis and Foster to injuries, their running game continued to tear up defeneses the past couple seasons.

2002-Levi Jones by Cincinnati: Dillon was a stud back, and after he left Rudi Johnson became a stud back.

1998-Tra Thomas by Philly: McNabb hasn't had too many issues because of a lack of protection.

1997-Orlando Pace by St. Louis: Duh.

1997-Walter Jones by Seattle: Well, the Seahawks are the reigning NFC Champs and Shauny scored about 612 TDs this year. Guess how?

1996-Jonathan Ogden by Baltimore: Helped Jamal Lewis rack up the third most yards in a season and win a Super Bowl, despite virtually no offensive weapons.

All of these teams improved after drafting a highly-touted O-Lineman in the draft. Why can't we? I know it's easy to get caught up in the excitement of drafting a Bush or VY, a game-changer.

But for me, I'm sticking with Carr and Davis and Johnson (and hopefully Moulds!). These our the big three for us, and I'm not turning on any of them on the off-chance of wasting money on a gamble of a replacement for them.

For my money, give me D'Brick, who is a much bigger need, arguably the BPA, and a much smaller gamble. Maybe you don't remember it now, but a few numbers to ponder about our O-line:

68 sacks, 424 yards lost, 17 fumbles, six fumbles lost. I don't care if it's Carr, Bush, Young, Leinhart or Jesus himself behind that line... it stinks.

Bush gives us present. VY gives up future. D'Brick can give us both.

April 29th... trade down and/or draft D'Brick. We'll all be happier that we did when we're an offensive powerhouse for seasons to come.

:twocents:

Grid
03-31-2006, 06:08 AM
When you have the #1 pick..you take BPA. That is just the way you do things. You dont often have the chance to take the best player in the draft.. so you shouldnt ruin that chance by basing your pick on need.

As of right now..the top rated player in this draft is Reggie Bush. That could change before the draft.. we will see.

dalemurphy
03-31-2006, 09:28 AM
4 or 5? Isn't that selling the guy a little short?

Said it before, will chip in again here. I love Williams but I don't see our FO having the balls to draft him, and I haven't heard much in the way of us pursuing him hard. I am pretty sure Reggie is gonna be a Texan come April 29.

Very few RBs play at a top level for more than 5 years. Even Emmitt Smith, the all-time leader in yards, .only played at an elite level for 5 years (1991-1995). Earl Campbell had about 6 years. SAlexander, Tomlinson have both had 5 years. MFaulk had about 7 if you ignore the year he missed with his blown-out knee. Terrell Davis lasted 3 years at that level.

infantrycak
03-31-2006, 09:40 AM
Very few RBs play at a top level for more than 5 years. Even Emmitt Smith, the all-time leader in yards, .only played at an elite level for 5 years (1991-1995).

While your point certainly has merit that RB's are shorter term than other positions, IMO you are selling Smith short.

Smith was in the top 5 for rushing yards 7 times in the period from 1991-1999 and had two more top 10 years in 1990 and 1996. He was also top 5 in the league 9 times during the 1990-1999 time period at scoring TD's. That is a solid 10 year term featuring pro-bowl performances in both the 1st and last years (8 total probowls and no the 1999 pro-bowl was not a give away as he had 4th most rushing yds in the league).

bad
03-31-2006, 09:52 AM
This year, you take the BPA. If the BPA was a toss-up you maybe look to need, but there's no toss-up here. Vince Young is himself obviously a rare talent but it's Bush who is sparking the imaginations of folks around the NFL. Find me one respected NFL source who rates a player higher than RB coming out of college this year.

Make that ANY year.

"I see a combination of a lot of guys in Reggie: Marshall Faulk (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=368) and Gale Sayers, even some receivers," San Diego Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=561) says. "Reggie can go deep and run routes like a Steve Smith (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=2386)."


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-03-01-debate-bush_x.htm


Most analysts believe the Texans should just write Bush's name now on their draft card.

"I don't think it's a jump ball between Reggie and Vince Young (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=3602), I think the obvious choice for Houston is Reggie Bush (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=3600)," NFL Network analyst Mike Maycock says. "Reggie Bush is the best running back I've seen coming out of college, point blank.

"Reggie's short-area burst is the best I've seen coming out of college. He understands pass protection. He did a better job of sticking his head in a linebacker's chest last season. I do think he's a three-down back. What NFL defenses will do is try to overload blitz to his side to take him out of the game. They'll say, 'Let's overload his side and force him to stay in and block,' which is how teams play against (Tomlinson).

"It forces a defense to commit. But it can open things up for other guys to make plays."

keyfro
03-31-2006, 10:14 AM
for the first time in our franchise history it looks like we have a coach who wants to go into the draft without trying to fill needs...in the draft you are never garenteed getting a particular player you want...i.e. troy williamson last year

Mike Kerns
03-31-2006, 03:01 PM
"I see a combination of a lot of guys in Reggie: Marshall Faulk and Gale Sayers, even some receivers," San Diego Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson says. "Reggie can go deep and run routes like a Steve Smith."

I could live with that ! Aren't L.T. & Reggie friends or something ?

tulexan
03-31-2006, 03:05 PM
I could live with that ! Aren't L.T. & Reggie friends or something ?


Yeah they have been working out together in the offseason for a few years now. I would put money on that being a major reason for his improvement each year.

Mike Kerns
03-31-2006, 03:10 PM
If Reggie performs for us anything Like L.T. has for SD & I may lose my mind:drool:

bad
03-31-2006, 03:52 PM
If Reggie performs for us anything Like L.T. has for SD & I may lose my mind:drool: If Reggie performs like LT there will be company for your crazy self. I hope we all go looney tunes.

Bush is friends with LT, and LT has always conducted himself with class, never showing any real ego or selfishness. A superstar who is a team player and makes everyone around him better. I hope we get the same from RB.

REGGIE BUSH ON:

His expectations:
"I expect great things out of myself. I expect to make great plays, great moves. In my mind, I can never be good enough...It just comes with the territory of making the most of what God has given you. I'm just trying to make the most out of a blessing I was given."


How he sees his role:
"To do it all. My favorite role is to get the ball in my hands. Any way I can do that. I just like getting the ball in my hands and making a play for my team...Ever since I started playing football, it just felt right. It just felt like something I loved to do. I just loved being able to entertain the crowd and to go out there and make plays happen. It was fun at the same time...I have to know a lot more about the playbook than the other players. But that goes with the territory and I love it."


His moves
: "I don't really look at other people's moves and copy them because, when I'm on the field, I'm not going to remember them. It's just something that has a lot to do with instinct and vision and all those running back aspects that you have. You put them all into a basket, and you just use them on the field and go out there and make plays."


Sharing the tailback duty:
"I'm a competitor. I love having the ball in my hands. Some day, I'd like to be the starter. But that's not important to me. What's important is winning. It's not the normal way, but it's working out well...It's a little tough for a running back to get into a rhythm when you're not in there getting all the reps and feeling the defense. But we did it the whole season and when you got in there you had to take advantage of it...There's no jealousy on the team at all. We're all out here pulling for each other and trying to make each other better."



The pros and cons of not getting the ball on every play:
"The hard part has been learning to wait for my opportunity. They can't double- and triple-team me the whole game. If they do, that opens up opportunities for the other guys and, once that starts, I know I'm going to get my chance...I feel if I ran the ball 30 times, I could definitely do some damage. But it's a different situation and it's working out"


His personality:
"Off the field, I'm quiet. On the field, I'm probably the exact opposite of that. Split personality on and off the field."

His experience at the 2004 Heisman Trophy ceremony:
"I'll be back next year."


Returning punts and kicks:
"A punt return is almost like freedom of speech. You get to go out and do whatever you want. It's not a set-up play. You go out and catch the ball and do something for your team. I do what I want. You can't get in trouble. I like doing that. I just get to go out there and express me, my athleticism, my personality, the type of player I am." How he deals with all the attention: "Stay humble and do everything the right way. You have to represent the team the right way...I don't mind all the attention. But it makes me hungrier. It makes me want to do bigger things."

el toro
03-31-2006, 04:44 PM
With the #1, you take the BPA and then adjust as necessary. Otherwise you can find yourself giving up a great player simply because you had a good player at a given position.

I like how the Young camp likes to trot out the 'we already have a good RB' argument yet is unwilling to acknowledge that Young isn't going to be ready to be a starting QB anytime soon in this league or that the team can make adjustments if RB and DD cannot coexist (such as moving DD).

To me, BPA means the guy who has the talent to be all-world and is ready to contribute from day 1. All we have with Young is great athleticism and a good showing against a rather mediocre D in his last collegiate game. Not to mention hanging his hat on scrambling from the shotgun. BFD.

At the end of the day, the sole rationale for picking Young is that he's from here. Now, if you're in the Texans' marketing department, sure, the thought of Young in a Texans uniform would be significant if you are interested in revitalizing the local fanbase as well as making some significant inroads in Central Texas.

But if you are interested in winning and don't give a !@#$ about that? Well, the answer is quite clear....so long as you aren't wearing burnt orange. End the stupidity.

Rewsky
03-31-2006, 05:48 PM
Way to over generalize the VY Camp!!!! You forgot to add that since some of us have the audacity to think VY is the best player in the draft, that we obviously don't know anything about football.

All we have with Young is great athleticism and a good showing against a rather mediocre D in his last collegiate game. Not to mention hanging his hat on scrambling from the shotgun. BFD.


While you like to judge a player by ONE GAME, I like to look at the progress they made throughout their collegiate career. I also like to look at stats too, but they obviously don't mean as much as ONE GAME. :)

phan1
03-31-2006, 05:54 PM
While I'm obviously in the "draft Bush" camp, I really don't get how VY could be considered the best QB in the draft, much less the best player in the draft. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to put any fanboy sportswriter's or poster's opinions ahead of NFL scouts. I'm just not.

One of the things I find annoying is how people say a guy is a "proven winner". Sorry guys, but when has being a winner translate to being a great NFL player much less an NFL QB? Peyton Manning was known (and still is) as the guy who can't win the big game coming out of college. Favre wasn't considered a "winner". Big Ben played in the MAC, and Eli played for Mississippi, whereas great "winners" like Ken Dorsey will be a backup for the rest of his life. Actually, I can't name a single great QB in the NFL who has always been considered a proven "winner" coming out of college. OK, so VY did win a lot of games while carrying the team on his shoulders, particularly his legs. While that's great and he can definitely be considered "clutch" (the most clutch player in college ever I believe), that doesn't translate to the NFL if you can't throw the ball or make reads like an NFL QB.

I think VY is an excellent passer and put a great touch on the ball very consistently.... as long a they're easy passes. Sorry, but I do not think this is a guy who can make difficult throws. I've watched his college games and his passes tend to be soft lobs over to open recievers who are way more talented than the defenses their playing against. UT really has a very underrated receiving core (mostly cause they're young guys), and David Thomas is a guy who can catch anything thrown at him. I don't think this guy can make the difficult NFL throws, and I haven't heard of any scouts that can say otherwise. I don't think armstrength will be too much of a problem as I'm sure he can throw the ball harder if he wants to. He's just too athletic not to.

Next is his ability to read defenses. His ability to run has always made up for any of his weaknesses in reading defenses. This is why Matt Leinhart is clearly the best QB in the draft. Hey, David Carr is a guy who has a weakness in reading defenses, do we need another guy like that who's going to sit on the bench for maybe 3 years before he gets a legitimate start? Not to mention that he worked out of shotgun in what looks to me like a very gimmicky college system. I mean C'mon! The shotgun using that zone-read thingy? That's got to be the most gimmicky think I've ever seen in college football (which is why college is such a great game :))! Whatever happened to the run-and-shoot offense NFL? That might have given Florida a championship, but flopped big time in the NFL.

I do think certain statements about VY has been unfair though. For one, his 40-time isn't surprising, nor is it dissappointing. He doesn't look that fast on the field, and he's been caught by many defensive players many times. The problem is, none of these guys are able to bring him down. His size, agility, and strength are what make him a great runner, not his speed (a la Mike Vick). This guy just slips tackles like he's covered in vasaline, and it definitely shows on the football field. He also takes great angles to avoid big hits, unlike Vick. I've never seen a player able to scramble like VY does. Isn't David Carr supposed to be the 2nd fastest QB in the league next to Mike Vick? I haven't seen him scrambling and making highlight reals with his feet.

I also think being able to scramble is a definite edge in the NFL. VY's athleticism does matter. Like people have said, there hasn't been a player quite like him, and to assume he can't use that athleticism to play NFL football as a QB is a myth in my opinion. While he's not going to put up 200+ yrds like he did in either Rose Bowls, he can sure put up 100 yrd games a couple times a season. I really think his running ability will be a legitimate threat in the NFL if a defense isn't giving it any respect. Just because other players like McNabb and Culpepper didn't scramble all over the field last year doesn't mean being able to run the football isn't a big asset. No way Mcnabb would have gotten to 3 straight NFC title games and pro-bowls without his legs.

You can watch his incredible college games, but how much of that actually translated to the NFL? Not too much. Should the Bears throw the ball 60% of the time because Rex Grossman put up great numbers in his "fun n gun" offense that he had in Florida? Please. The only way I see him being the #1 pick is if he can be a WR for us as he's learning the QB position. But hey, that's not going to happen. I think I'm being pretty fair here in saying VY is a great prospect, but not nearly the best player in the draft.

Maddict5
03-31-2006, 06:19 PM
Very few RBs play at a top level for more than 5 years. Even Emmitt Smith, the all-time leader in yards, .only played at an elite level for 5 years (1991-1995). Earl Campbell had about 6 years. SAlexander, Tomlinson have both had 5 years. MFaulk had about 7 if you ignore the year he missed with his blown-out knee. Terrell Davis lasted 3 years at that level.

lets see how LT and alexander do this year so

TexanSam
03-31-2006, 07:21 PM
Hypothetical for you Texans fans:

Let's assume that we are going to take the best player available in rounds 2-7 in the draft. Well, what if the best player available is Mathia Kiwanuka, a DE? Or Santonio Holmes a WR? Would you guys take either one of those? I would like to have Kiwanuka and Holmes would have been intriguing before Holmes. If we hadn't signed Walter, I would still have drafted Holmes assuming we still got Moulds. I'm hoping Ashton Youbouty (CB, Ohio St.) is available at the top of the 2nd.

tiger06
03-31-2006, 07:30 PM
If we get Moulds, I don't think it's likely we'll take a WR at 33. If a guy like Eric Winston is there or a top CB, I think we take one of them.

TreWardTxn
03-31-2006, 09:26 PM
While I'm obviously in the "draft Bush" camp, I really don't get how VY could be considered the best QB in the draft, much less the best player in the draft. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to put any fanboy sportswriter's or poster's opinions ahead of NFL scouts. I'm just not.

One of the things I find annoying is how people say a guy is a "proven winner". Sorry guys, but when has being a winner translate to being a great NFL player much less an NFL QB? Peyton Manning was known (and still is) as the guy who can't win the big game coming out of college. Favre wasn't considered a "winner". Big Ben played in the MAC, and Eli played for Mississippi, whereas great "winners" like Ken Dorsey will be a backup for the rest of his life. Actually, I can't name a single great QB in the NFL who has always been considered a proven "winner" coming out of college. OK, so VY did win a lot of games while carrying the team on his shoulders, particularly his legs. While that's great and he can definitely be considered "clutch" (the most clutch player in college ever I believe), that doesn't translate to the NFL if you can't throw the ball or make reads like an NFL QB.

I think VY is an excellent passer and put a great touch on the ball very consistently.... as long a they're easy passes. Sorry, but I do not think this is a guy who can make difficult throws. I've watched his college games and his passes tend to be soft lobs over to open recievers who are way more talented than the defenses their playing against. UT really has a very underrated receiving core (mostly cause they're young guys), and David Thomas is a guy who can catch anything thrown at him. I don't think this guy can make the difficult NFL throws, and I haven't heard of any scouts that can say otherwise. I don't think armstrength will be too much of a problem as I'm sure he can throw the ball harder if he wants to. He's just too athletic not to.

Next is his ability to read defenses. His ability to run has always made up for any of his weaknesses in reading defenses. This is why Matt Leinhart is clearly the best QB in the draft. Hey, David Carr is a guy who has a weakness in reading defenses, do we need another guy like that who's going to sit on the bench for maybe 3 years before he gets a legitimate start? Not to mention that he worked out of shotgun in what looks to me like a very gimmicky college system. I mean C'mon! The shotgun using that zone-read thingy? That's got to be the most gimmicky think I've ever seen in college football (which is why college is such a great game :))! Whatever happened to the run-and-shoot offense NFL? That might have given Florida a championship, but flopped big time in the NFL.

I do think certain statements about VY has been unfair though. For one, his 40-time isn't surprising, nor is it dissappointing. He doesn't look that fast on the field, and he's been caught by many defensive players many times. The problem is, none of these guys are able to bring him down. His size, agility, and strength are what make him a great runner, not his speed (a la Mike Vick). This guy just slips tackles like he's covered in vasaline, and it definitely shows on the football field. He also takes great angles to avoid big hits, unlike Vick. I've never seen a player able to scramble like VY does. Isn't David Carr supposed to be the 2nd fastest QB in the league next to Mike Vick? I haven't seen him scrambling and making highlight reals with his feet.

I also think being able to scramble is a definite edge in the NFL. VY's athleticism does matter. Like people have said, there hasn't been a player quite like him, and to assume he can't use that athleticism to play NFL football as a QB is a myth in my opinion. While he's not going to put up 200+ yrds like he did in either Rose Bowls, he can sure put up 100 yrd games a couple times a season. I really think his running ability will be a legitimate threat in the NFL if a defense isn't giving it any respect. Just because other players like McNabb and Culpepper didn't scramble all over the field last year doesn't mean being able to run the football isn't a big asset. No way Mcnabb would have gotten to 3 straight NFC title games and pro-bowls without his legs.

You can watch his incredible college games, but how much of that actually translated to the NFL? Not too much. Should the Bears throw the ball 60% of the time because Rex Grossman put up great numbers in his "fun n gun" offense that he had in Florida? Please. The only way I see him being the #1 pick is if he can be a WR for us as he's learning the QB position. But hey, that's not going to happen. I think I'm being pretty fair here in saying VY is a great prospect, but not nearly the best player in the draft.


I can respect your post, but don't ever in life try to draw some relation between Vince Young and frikin' Ken Dorsey. If anything his immobility, average arm, and bubble of 1st day NFL talent (Portis, AJ, and line) is much more similar to Leinart, who also couldn't find "the will to win" his final game. Granted, Dorsey was a low draft pick and therefore deserves his backup status, and Leinart has no excuse if that fate ever befalls him, but give Young a little more respect than that.

I have to say, I still don't understand the concern over the Shotgun zone-read offense. The only major difference between that and what he will do in the NFL is have to read the defense from under center as opposed to being in the shotgun position and getting to stand back. It's not like he ran one of Spurriers 5-wide, pass happy offenses. The receivers ran more NFL routes, not a lot of slants and picks to create space. Just think of the "option-read" part in which he fakes to the RB and reads the DE as playaction in the NFL, and it's not that drastic of a transition to an under center offense. Will he have to better understand the activity of safeties and LBs, of course, but what QB won't? I will say this, he has an ace up his sleeve in that his mobility will make defenses spy him, which makes a D much easier to read. The zone-read was put in to help the running game by incorporating Vince in it, the routes, reads and throws for the passing game were all the same from when Simms ran the offense, and it's pretty obvious who did a better job with that.

As far as "proven winner," that is a way to say that Young has the type of competitive spirit and internal drive to be the best that all great champions have. On the field, he wants to, believes he will, and makes others think he will crush his opponents. Saying "proven winner" is a pundit's way of saying, 'I'm not making this up, look at the tangible results.' Even if the winner cliche is overused for will-be bust QBs, the praise about competitiveness and leadership (to this extent) are utilized much less.

CITY CAT
03-31-2006, 11:14 PM
Marcus Mcneil or maybe Max Jean Gilles.

Scooter
03-31-2006, 11:50 PM
do you take BPA now or later? we havent drafted a real LT and look where it's landed us, our best lineman being moved around because noone else can do it (say we need to get one in FA and i'll cry). a qb is going to take a year or two. rb's are usually able to contribute right away if they can keep from getting hurt.

best player today is bush.

best player next year is d'brick.

best player in 2 years is vince.

all three have potential that, according to scouts, hasnt been seen in many years. the question is, which position is most important, and how long can we wait? for the fans, that's not a question ... fans want now. fans want the guy that's going to start tomorrow or else hissy fits are going to happen. how desperate are the coaches though, and who do they think they can work with on the current roster?

ReggieBushFan
04-01-2006, 12:22 AM
we should take the best player available and that is what we will do


the best player available has been the best player in college football for about the last decade in my opinion


Mr. REGGIE BUSH

TexanFan881
04-01-2006, 12:22 AM
Taking BPA is good, to a point. It is good knowing that you can take BPA because that means you have a good team and you can go after the best player that you can get. Now, every team can upgrade at a position, and sometimes even though there might be an obvious "best player available", there could be a player that could suit the drafting team's system or would be a bigger upgrade than the best player available. There is a point though, between BPA and needs, that BPA prevails. That's why Reggie Bush will be the #1 pick rather than D'Brickshaw Ferguson.

threetoedpete
11-24-2006, 03:59 AM
Bump.

swtbound07
11-24-2006, 04:01 AM
reaffirming me calling bush a bust...i like it.

threetoedpete
11-24-2006, 04:07 AM
No I was more focused on the o-line, /furgeson commentary. More things change the more they stay the same. Be interesting to see which way they jump next season. However, as of this date, with Mario injured...D'brick guys are in the poition of WE TYS. Lineman aren't a sex pick, but the reason you do it is because it works.

kastofsna
11-24-2006, 08:22 AM
if you're picking top 10, you better go BPA.