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newbiefan
03-25-2006, 11:43 PM
Why is it that NFL Qb's hafta be able to take snaps under center as opposed to from shotgun like many do in colledge?

Akhorahil
03-26-2006, 12:06 AM
from what I understand its easier to read the defense and call audibles when taking direct snaps.

thunderkyss
03-26-2006, 12:12 AM
no, it's easier to read the defense from the shotgun. That's why Vince's ability to read defenses quickly is in question, the shotgun gives him an edge.

The Myth
03-26-2006, 12:21 AM
Your more likely to have a better running game lined behind center rather than draws from the shotgun I would think. No proof to that whatsoever just my thoughts as to one of the reasons.

dirty steve
03-26-2006, 01:38 AM
no, it's easier to read the defense from the shotgun. That's why Vince's ability to read defenses quickly is in question, the shotgun gives him an edge.

so does his coach dumbing down the offense and letting him do whatever the wants. HC's and O-coordinators in the NFL won't let vince do whatever he wants.

Texans86
03-26-2006, 01:39 AM
Because it's the standard, and the spread offense is rarely used in a pro style offense. I'm not exactly sure why the pro's stopped using it, but it probably has something to do with the faster defenses. It also might have something to do with the fact that there are a lot more plays that can be run. There can be all the plays run out of a shotgun formation, and even more run out from under the center. The more plays available, the less a defense can focus on certain aspects of a quarterback's tendancies. Of course it might have nothing to do with the things I just stated, that just my guess.

Tailgate
03-26-2006, 02:36 AM
Why is it that NFL Qb's hafta be able to take snaps under center as opposed to from shotgun like many do in colledge?

IMO its because it is less predicatable. In Shotgun.... you are more likely to pass the ball in the NFL. Too much talent to try to run out of the shotgun consistently.

The QB under the center leaves the door open for pretty much any play, leaving the defense guessing more if you will. Pass, run, and most importantly the play action.

You just have more options if the QB is under center.... and in the complex world of the NFL...its a necessity.

rittenhouserobz
03-26-2006, 07:59 AM
I could be wrong, but is there an increased chance of fumbling the snap when using the shotgun formation.

HJam72
03-26-2006, 08:45 AM
None of that makes any sense to me and I'm not even a Young supporter. It SEEMS to me that everybody should want to just use the shotgun all the time. I don't see how it henders anything, but I'm sure you're right and I'm just not getting it. For instance, I don't see why you necesarilly have to use a spread offense just because the QB is dropped back. I suppose the shotgun would stop you from being able to fake hand-offs. That's one thing that makes sense to me.

edit: Guess another one is calling audibles in a loud stadium.

jaayteetx
03-26-2006, 09:18 AM
Play action, and less likely to fumble. Thats my guess.

sakebomb
03-26-2006, 09:53 AM
They want you watching/reading the defense the entire time. They don't want you to have to take your eyes off the defense while you try to catch the ball in the shotgun. It's only a split second but that's the difference between the NFL and college.

run-david-run
03-26-2006, 10:41 AM
Also, its much harder to run out of the shotgun, because everything is basically a draw. If the defense is looking for run, you are going to get stuffed.

PapaL
03-26-2006, 10:46 AM
I could be wrong, but is there an increased chance of fumbling the snap when using the shotgun formation.

This would be my best guess also. To many factors could easily cause a 40 yard mis-snap. Actually a pretty good question.

MorKnolle
03-26-2006, 11:35 AM
Running out of a shotgun is also a lot easier for the opposing defense to get a pass rush too. In college you don't have the kind of speed coming off the edges that you do in the NFL, so dropping into a shotgun spreads the OLinemen out a lot in order to protect the outside edges so it's generally easier for defenses to blitz around the outside or rush their DLinemen outside and allow blitzes to come up the middle.

Dropping into a shotgun generally allows the QB to throw the ball quicker as well as they don't have to take their 3-7 step drop before they are ready to throw, but it also reduces the options you have for running the ball and makes your playcalling a little more predictable.

mancunian
03-26-2006, 11:40 AM
None of that makes any sense to me and I'm not even a Young supporter. It SEEMS to me that everybody should want to just use the shotgun all the time. I don't see how it henders anything, but I'm sure you're right and I'm just not getting it. For instance, I don't see why you necesarilly have to use a spread offense just because the QB is dropped back. I suppose the shotgun would stop you from being able to fake hand-offs. That's one thing that makes sense to me.

edit: Guess another one is calling audibles in a loud stadium.

Harder to run the ball effectively from the shotgun - especially as you don't the full use of the FB

RTP2110
03-26-2006, 11:47 AM
Same reason they don't run the option in the pros.

stevo3883
03-26-2006, 12:06 PM
Same reason they don't run the option in the pros.


umm no.

teams still use the shotgun in the NFL. no one uses the option, ever.

Blake
03-26-2006, 12:15 PM
so does his coach dumbing down the offense and letting him do whatever the wants. HC's and O-coordinators in the NFL won't let vince do whatever he wants.

<sarcasm>And Alex Smith running Urban Myers dumbed-down shotgun spread system really hurt his draft stock as well.</sarcasm>

newbiefan
03-26-2006, 02:02 PM
Based on the lack of a definitive answer, I guess it wasnt a dumb question. But thanks guys for givin me a better idea, I like Mork's explanation, makes sense to me.

whiskeyrbl
03-26-2006, 02:09 PM
Running out of a shotgun is also a lot easier for the opposing defense to get a pass rush too. In college you don't have the kind of speed coming off the edges that you do in the NFL, so dropping into a shotgun spreads the OLinemen out a lot in order to protect the outside edges so it's generally easier for defenses to blitz around the outside or rush their DLinemen outside and allow blitzes to come up the middle.

Dropping into a shotgun generally allows the QB to throw the ball quicker as well as they don't have to take their 3-7 step drop before they are ready to throw, but it also reduces the options you have for running the ball and makes your playcalling a little more predictable.

Very well put.

Akhorahil
03-26-2006, 05:14 PM
I thought of something else after reading Morks response.... well... its pretty much the same thing just different wording with a lil different twist... its hardly even meantioning.... but here it goes.

the QB is on an island in the shotgun. DBs and safeties can see your every thought. at least up there closer to the line they have to look thru guys. I know this will sound really stupid. but.....

animals and fish do the same thing. think of the football like a baby. you want the babbies in the middle of the crowd where they can be protected.... out in shotgun... all alone standing in the open.... thats just bait.

yeah I know.... it sounds pretty stupid. but hey... if it works... it works.

btw.... I still think that you can read the blitz better being on the line. because you dont have to take your eyes off the defense taking a direct snap. as opposed to shotgun where you have to watch the snap for a split second....

somone said I was wrong before.... can you please explain why?

thunderkyss
03-26-2006, 07:08 PM
so does his coach dumbing down the offense and letting him do whatever the wants. HC's and O-coordinators in the NFL won't let vince do whatever he wants.

Going to the Shotgun on every down, is part of the "Customizing the offense to better utilize the talent of the offense.



btw.... I still think that you can read the blitz better being on the line. because you dont have to take your eyes off the defense taking a direct snap. as opposed to shotgun where you have to watch the snap for a split second....

somone said I was wrong before.... can you please explain why?

catching the long snap, isn't the same as catching a pass. You work on that with the Center so much, it's almost automatic. I doubt seriously that a QB has to look directly at the ball to catch it. Even if he does, being so far behind the line, the QB can see everything coming to him.

Palmer & Pendry, or whoever it was were out of their minds, when they thought the one step/three step drops were going to solve our problems. I wouldn't mind doing that on occasion, but if that's your plan, you've got to know you're doomed to fail, especially with our guys...... speed being their thing, more so than hands. David should have been dropped back to the shotgun on most passing plays, rolled out of the pocket on many, and using a three step drop on some. one step drops should very rarely be seen.

The shotgun however does kill a lot of your running game. If you've got a mobile QB like Carr, and a speed back like Jamaal Charles(who can punish you between the tackles as well), then it also opens up other areas of your runing game, as the defense has to quickly decide who has the ball.

From Center, the tailback get's up to speed, by the time he get's the ball. If he's directly behind the QB, it's hard to say before the snap which side of the line he's going to attack. Running plays, screens, and max protect should all look the same, until it's too late.

From Center, you can also toss the ball to either side, helping your running back get outside quicker.

MorKnolle
03-26-2006, 07:15 PM
btw.... I still think that you can read the blitz better being on the line. because you dont have to take your eyes off the defense taking a direct snap. as opposed to shotgun where you have to watch the snap for a split second....

I think you could probably see the whole field a little better pre-snap in a shotgun since you're back a few yards farther and can see over/around your OLinemen a little better, but once the snap comes you do have to direct your attention to catching that and there are increased risks of bad snaps, plus as I had posted before about making it much easier for defenses to read that it is a pass play get a pass rush.

Maddict5
03-27-2006, 07:52 AM
yeah my guess is, like others said,
FOR PASSING:that its easier to rush the qb, and he has to concentrate on catching the ball instead of reading the defence. Also nobody buys a shotgun PA pass

Rushing- isnt effective as its a draw and teams know if the qb or rb has the ball (pa again not working-keeping the defence honest)

to me thats why its nearly always used only in obvious passing situations

thunderkyss
03-27-2006, 07:55 AM
to me thats why its nearly always used only in obvious passing situations

True

Joe Texan
03-27-2006, 08:06 AM
You can run the shotgun, Coaches elect not to, Injury to the highest paid player on the team might be one reason. Moon lived in the shotgun and it got him to the Hall. If it worked all the time you would see more of it but I think it has a percentage of failure so it is not used as often.:twocents:

Big B Texan Fan
03-27-2006, 09:33 AM
Going to the Shotgun on every down, is part of the "Customizing the offense to better utilize the talent of the offense.




catching the long snap, isn't the same as catching a pass. You work on that with the Center so much, it's almost automatic. I doubt seriously that a QB has to look directly at the ball to catch it. Even if he does, being so far behind the line, the QB can see everything coming to him.

Palmer & Pendry, or whoever it was were out of their minds, when they thought the one step/three step drops were going to solve our problems. I wouldn't mind doing that on occasion, but if that's your plan, you've got to know you're doomed to fail, especially with our guys...... speed being their thing, more so than hands. David should have been dropped back to the shotgun on most passing plays, rolled out of the pocket on many, and using a three step drop on some. one step drops should very rarely be seen.

The shotgun however does kill a lot of your running game. If you've got a mobile QB like Carr, and a speed back like Jamaal Charles(who can punish you between the tackles as well), then it also opens up other areas of your runing game, as the defense has to quickly decide who has the ball.

From Center, the tailback get's up to speed, by the time he get's the ball. If he's directly behind the QB, it's hard to say before the snap which side of the line he's going to attack. Running plays, screens, and max protect should all look the same, until it's too late.

From Center, you can also toss the ball to either side, helping your running back get outside quicker.
I don't have the link but Joe Montana has been quoted saying that he much more preferred to go under center so that he would never have to take his eyes off fo the D. I guess it does not hurt to have Rice on your team though.