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View Full Version : I don't get why we need Bush at all.


jjcorvallis
03-25-2006, 12:22 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.

The Dude Abides
03-25-2006, 12:29 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.

Why do we need a QB then?

Errant Hothy
03-25-2006, 12:31 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.

If QB is such a big hole why not take Leinart, the QB who could help us faster then VY?

beerlover
03-25-2006, 12:36 PM
bpa of the entire draft thats why- who has been a winner at every level of competition- a team player with a great attitude- will help Carr more than you think- http://www.jefflewisphotography.com/adm/photo/60_USCBush1Website.jpg

Kaiser Toro
03-25-2006, 12:39 PM
bpa of the entire draft thats why- who has been a winner at every level of competition- a team player with a great attitude- will help Carr more than you think- http://www.jefflewisphotography.com/adm/photo/60_USCBush1Website.jpg

We must help Carr. I am still confused by this notion. Let's help the team.

tulexan
03-25-2006, 12:41 PM
Didn't we just sign a LB, QB, OL, DE, TE, and WR?

YoungTexanFan
03-25-2006, 12:42 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.

A #2 WR is a semi-need, but thats only if you don't expect Walters to contribute. QB was addressed with Sage and extending Carr's contract. TE was addressed with Putzier, and Joppru is looking quite good...he is simply insurance and a back-up now. DL - We are set at DT, in fact we have a surplus. At DE, we have Babin/Peek with Weaver just signed. At LB we have some long term contracts in Greenwood and Wong, Orr proved himself enough to warrent a spot this year, and we just signed Cowart to play MLB if Wong isn't ready. Safty is still a need, but only FS. CB is not really a need, only for depth. Buchanon is fine.

Your right, RB is not a need, but neither is a QB and any of the other positions listed except for FS. I like the trading down idea, but not for Vince. It's not that I like Bush either, but Vince is not our answer. Get over it and move along.

beerlover
03-25-2006, 12:45 PM
We must help Carr. I am still confused by this notion. Let's help the team.

whats to confuse :confused: he needs better protection (which they have addressed and will continue to address) more weapons combined with a scheme that better fits his strengths. oh yeah, nothing calls the dogs off like a great ground attack & some skilled recievers that can stretch the field out.

tulexan
03-25-2006, 12:48 PM
I'm still confused who he listed all of the positions that we just filled through free agency as major holes (except CB and S)

wags
03-25-2006, 01:03 PM
We must help Carr. I am still confused by this notion. Let's help the team.

I think Bush will help the team. He doesn't have to carry the ball every time to influence the game. He can be put in the slot to create mismatches and serve as a go to receiver. IMO he could contribute heavily in the passing game. Teams will have to game plan around him and AJ. We would pick up a playmaker in both the running and passing game and still have three picks that we could use to pick up quality players.

Haams
03-25-2006, 01:10 PM
A #2 WR is a semi-need, but thats only if you don't expect Walters to contribute. QB was addressed with Sage and extending Carr's contract. TE was addressed with Putzier, and Joppru is looking quite good...he is simply insurance and a back-up now. DL - We are set at DT, in fact we have a surplus. At DE, we have Babin/Peek with Weaver just signed. At LB we have some long term contracts in Greenwood and Wong, Orr proved himself enough to warrent a spot this year, and we just signed Cowart to play MLB if Wong isn't ready. Safty is still a need, but only FS. CB is not really a need, only for depth. Buchanon is fine.

Your right, RB is not a need, but neither is a QB and any of the other positions listed except for FS. I like the trading down idea, but not for Vince. It's not that I like Bush either, but Vince is not our answer. Get over it and move along.

I don't want to come across as a team hater but after this last season I think I'm allowed to be bitter for a while and I think JJ has a good point. QB is "adressed"? Yes, if Carr can step on the field and contribute well, which is a question mark in my head. I don't know what this surplus of DT's is. I don't know that long term contracts in Greenwood and Wong are good. I don't know how Buchanon can be labeled fine - I mean he was benched by the worst team in the NFL. There are only 4 players on this team who I am really pleased with right now: Dunta, AJ, DD, and Mathis. Hopefully the others will step up, but I have yet to see it.

Now that I've gotten my negativity out... I'll be the first to tell you that I want VY because I am a fan of his, I am a lifelong UT fan. For me having my favorite Longhorn go to my favorite pro team would be a dream come true. From an objective good of the team viewpoint, trading down makes the most sense. I really don't understand the good that Reggie will do us (comparitively). Dominique is already putting up some of the best all-purpose yardage in the league. Mathis has the return game on lock down. I don't get how drafting one guy to get 10-15 carries a game is supposed to turn the franchise around. As I saw someone else post: I think RB could make an average team better, I think he could make a good team great, I don't think he can make a bad team good (thanks TJ). Unfortunately, we fall into the last category.

Coach C.
03-25-2006, 01:18 PM
Bush is simply the best player available. Mario is right there with him, but with the recent signings I think the Texans are reserved to work hard on defense.

Dunta_23
03-25-2006, 01:58 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.


As soon as your post said draft Vince it became useless....IF we stay at # 1 we draft the BPA...which is Reggie...NOBODY in the world except UT fans think Vince is the BPA

Please_Evolve
03-25-2006, 02:12 PM
hey not all UT fans are sold on him being the BPA. I personally wanted Vince to stay another year. I like Vince and i'll cheer for him...long as he doesn't go to the Titans. I just can't bring myself to ever cheer for that organization.

Nighthawk
03-25-2006, 02:14 PM
I think Bush will help the team. He doesn't have to carry the ball every time to influence the game. He can be put in the slot to create mismatches and serve as a go to receiver. IMO he could contribute heavily in the passing game. Teams will have to game plan around him and AJ. We would pick up a playmaker in both the running and passing game and still have three picks that we could use to pick up quality players.

Anybody who thinks Bush is going to have much affent on defenses for more than a few games is living in a dream world. Bush will be a good and effective player, nothing more. Whenever he faced tough competition in college his numbers started looking quite human. In the NFL he'll be faced with people who are quicker and just as agile and athletic.

CITY CAT
03-25-2006, 02:17 PM
In order to win championships, you need clutch playmakers. Therefore it is why we need Bush. Who on the Texans has the "IT" factor? Nobody!!! Bush is not a RB he is an IF for It factor.

thunderkyss
03-25-2006, 02:52 PM
If QB is such a big hole why not take Leinart, the QB who could help us faster then VY?

Is Tim Couch a better QB than McNabb?? Is he better than Culpepper?? You do know he was "rated" Higher than those two right??


Didn't we just sign a LB, QB, OL, DE, TE, and WR?

Good point......... I hate to admit it........ but good point.

Doesn't change the fact that I want the Texans to draft Vince though


whats to confuse :confused: he needs better protection (which they have addressed and will continue to address) more weapons combined with a scheme that better fits his strengths. oh yeah, nothing calls the dogs off like a great ground attack & some skilled recievers that can stretch the field out.

The New Orleans Saints showed everybody how to get to Kurt Warner, even with Orlando Pace protecting him......... Even with the real deal Marshall Faulk in the back field. Since then, teams tee off on Kurt Warner........ Much like they will Tee off on David Carr & Peyton Manning for the rest of their careers......... Kurt hasn't been able to consistently beat the blitz, so teams will continue, Carr hasn't been able to recognize when it's coming... They will not stop, until they find out that Carr/Kurt can beat them more often than not. I think that will be the case with Peyton, with most teams....... not so with Kurt, or Carr.

SnakeOilTanker
03-25-2006, 05:34 PM
1.Dom Davis can't stay healthy, that makes RB a semi-need
2.The Texans biggest need on the entire team is another game changer and gamebreaker, they only other one they have is AJ.

You draft Bush because they believe Carr is good enough to win a championship, espically with a talent like Bush.

Carr and Bush sounds alot better Than VY and DD to me....and most importantly I think thats what Kubes, Cass and Uncle Bob think.

:twocents:

tulexan
03-25-2006, 05:39 PM
The New Orleans Saints showed everybody how to get to Kurt Warner, even with Orlando Pace protecting him......... Even with the real deal Marshall Faulk in the back field. Since then, teams tee off on Kurt Warner........ Much like they will Tee off on David Carr & Peyton Manning for the rest of their careers......... Kurt hasn't been able to consistently beat the blitz, so teams will continue, Carr hasn't been able to recognize when it's coming... They will not stop, until they find out that Carr/Kurt can beat them more often than not. I think that will be the case with Peyton, with most teams....... not so with Kurt, or Carr.


Is that why the Rams looked just as impressive and returned to the Super Bowl the next season? The Rams collapsed because the next season Kurt Warner went down with a finger injury and Marshall Faulk went on a 5 season stretch of being injured for large portions of the season.

Headlights of a Carr
03-25-2006, 06:46 PM
This is silly you draft the BPA, plain and simple. He is 100% better than DD and I like DD. He is going to be better than Faulk and he (in college at least)could pick up the blitz. Then in the second round pick a WR that slips into the second round. Just hope the WR will be better than Gaffney was when he came out. And we have more picks that day to fill needs/BPA. You don't pass on a talent like this. I never thought we would be in position to draft him at the end of last year and look what happened. I am happy about the off-seasn so far and we need to top it off with selecting Reggie Bush. :redtowel: :superman:

thunderkyss
03-25-2006, 07:02 PM
1.Dom Davis can't stay healthy, that makes RB a semi-need
Name me one back that ran for more than 3195yrds, avg'd 4.1 ypc, and has more than 1200yrds recieving.... someone playing now.
Ok, name five 1000 yard rushers who started more than 40 games their first three years in the league.

2.The Texans biggest need on the entire team is another game changer and gamebreaker, the only other one they have is AJ.

Give us Denver's running game.

You draft Bush because they believe Carr is good enough to win a championship, espically with a talent like Bush.

Carr and Bush sounds alot better Than VY and DD to me....and most importantly I think thats what Kubes, Cass and Uncle Bob think.

:twocents:

I think Uncle Bob is going to Draft Vince, because he thinks the kid is talented.

Napa Auto Parts
03-25-2006, 07:45 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.


im with you in this one our strenght is our RB's did no one see morency last year in limited playing time or wells ive said before there are not that many teams that would take bush 1st overall.

whiskeyrbl
03-25-2006, 08:09 PM
Front page




Dec. 25, 2005, 12:21AM
Reggie Bush just may be one of those gifts you never forget


By RICHARD JUSTICE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

He sits beneath the tree this Christmas morning with a bright-red bow and fancy wrapping paper. Go ahead and have a look. Allow yourself to dream.

Just don't touch.

Amid today's excitement and clutter, this gift will remain unopened for another week. So be patient. USC running back Reggie Bush is worth the wait.

Every decade or so, some NFL team has the opportunity to draft a player who instantly changes everything. Bush is one of those players. The Texans may be one of those teams.

They're close enough to imagine him in their uniform. They say they haven't gotten that far. Forgive them this fib.

They surely have dreamed of the dazzling runs and packed stadiums. He has averaged 8.9 yards per carry this season at Southern Cal. He has scored 41 touchdowns in 38 college games and has 93 runs of at least 20 yards.

He has the speed to outrun defensive backs and the cutback ability to leave linebackers diving for where they hope he'll be. He's one of those players who can take over games and turn losses into victories.

If you think the Texans have so many needs that they should trade the top pick and get several players, think again. Bush is too good to pass up.

One great player can change a franchise dramatically. Look what Earl Campbell did for the Oilers.

Bush has allowed the Texans to envision a time when they'll matter again in the hearts and minds of Houston football fans.

He is all that's left to win in this season of defeat. The Texans lost for the 13th time in 15 games Saturday when the Jacksonville Jaguars beat them 38-20 at Reliant Stadium.

It was another game played in a mostly empty stadium by a team that seemed to be going through the motions. Because they've got the NFL's worst record with one game remaining in the regular season, they're on track to get the first pick in the 2006 draft.

Now for the throat-clearing moment.

The Texans, despite a 2-13 record, are guaranteed of nothing. The New York Jets, San Francisco 49ers, New Orleans Saints and Green Bay Packers have just three victories.

If the Texans defeat the 49ers in San Francisco next weekend, they'll be tied with at least one team for the worst record.

If two or more teams are tied, the team that has played the weakest schedule will get the highest pick. After Saturday's games, the Saints and Jets had played slightly weaker schedules than the Texans.

Details aside, the Texans only have to do what they've done better than any other team this season. They need to lose one more.

"My brother is going to tell me to take a knee every down (at San Francisco)," Texans quarterback David Carr said. "That stuff is going to happen."

Barring a stunning surprise, Bush will be the first pick. Although he's a junior, indications are he will leave USC for the NFL after the Rose Bowl against Texas on Jan. 4.

"He's a great player," Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson said. "He can line up anywhere on the field. He's capable of scoring from any spot."

He would also give a nondescript franchise some badly needed personality. He would be the cornerstone for a rebuilt franchise. By next season, the Texans will have new coaches and a host of new players.

As the possibility of getting Bush has increased, team officials have combed lists of offensive coordinators looking for someone who can get the best out of Bush. He has lined up all over the field at USC and likely will be used the same way in the NFL.

He would give Carr another receiving threat. At the moment, Carr has just one — Johnson. Speaking of Johnson, defenses wouldn't be able to direct their coverage toward him if the Texans had another threat.

All of a sudden, that mediocre offensive line wouldn't be so mediocre with a running back quick enough to get through the smallest holes.

The few fans who stayed around for the end of Saturday's game knew what was on the line. As the scoreboard flashed the news that the 49ers had beaten St. Louis for their third victory, the chant of "We want Reggie!" began.

Some fans showed up with signs about Bush. Some Texans didn't appreciate fans urging them to lose. A few got it.

"You understand the fans' perspective," defensive lineman Seth Payne said. "You understand it completely. But you don't think about it when you're on the field at the wrong end of a score."

richard.justice@chron.com

Carr Bombed
03-25-2006, 08:17 PM
We do not need Reggie Bush and we will not pick him up. Reggie Bush will be wearing a Jets Ball Cap when he is standing on the podium at #1. Its ok we will be fine at #4 when we take Vince. We have a grat RB and Morency is a well develped backup. We are in need of a backup QB and the writing is on the wall. Just think about it. The Texans have not pursued any of the top backups, and we brought in a third stringer to fill in as a third stringer.

This is the definition of denial.

So a team that has a bigger nead at QB than we do is going to trade up to the #1 spot to take a RB, I don't think so. The Jets have positioned themselves to make a trade with New Orleans to take a QB, not us, they aren't in the market to take a RB, especially with a QB who has a rubber arm. Why do you think they reconstructed Chad's contract, let me see. Umm, to make him a one year blanket while they groom a QB, more easier to move, and less expensive so they can economically afford to bring a highly drafted QB on board. The Jets are looking for a QB not RB

While the Texans have extended Carr for another 3 years and have spent the entire offseason acquiring weapons and protection for him and will continue to do so in the draft when they draft Reggie Bush.

whiskeyrbl
03-25-2006, 08:21 PM
Great post whisky, but it is about 8 months old! That was back before Vince was even in the mix. Soryy, but keep dreaming, Reggie Bush, 4.5 SSLLOOWWW for a RB Blazing for a QB. And with the fourth pick, the Houston Texans select Vince Young, QB University of Texas!

I think most people will get past the date and read what is said about how Bush will help this team,as the topic is Why do we need Reggis Bush.Now do you see the relevance.
By the way,did you help VY with his wundrelick test? Because last I looked December is only 3 months away from MARCH.

tulexan
03-25-2006, 08:32 PM
We do not need Reggie Bush and we will not pick him up. Reggie Bush will be wearing a Jets Ball Cap when he is standing on the podium at #1. Its ok we will be fine at #4 when we take Vince. We have a grat RB and Morency is a well develped backup. We are in need of a backup QB and the writing is on the wall. Just think about it. The Texans have not pursued any of the top backups, and we brought in a third stringer to fill in as a third stringer.


I think you are reading the wrong team's wall. The Texans didn't pay Rosenfels that big contract to have him be a 3rd string QB. We didn't pursue any of the top backups because they all got huge contracts and we have more pressing needs than a back up QB. And since when is Morency a well developed backup? I know the guy had a good college career, but he has 47 career carries with 21 of them coming in the last game of the season.

whiskeyrbl
03-25-2006, 08:49 PM
We did not pay him top dollar. In comparison to other deals this past offseason his salary is the going rate. He has never proven himself as a starter and he is only good as a thrid stringer. Everyone in this Texans message board is Pro-Bush so why even try to bring to light the truth. He will be drafted #1 by the jets, he will never dress-up as a Texan, and by the third practice of the season, the Jets linebackers will break his little 5'10 200 lb body in half. Welcome to the real world people! Do you guys understand why no body wants the guy, because he is the second comming of Warrick Dunn, if that good.
Maybe it is because everybody else understands the potential of having a player such as Bush on the team.To many possiblities to mention. With VY he has to prove he can read defenses while under center or he will have a very short career.

whiskeyrbl
03-25-2006, 10:28 PM
Hey Whisky shouldn't you be on a Jets message board, you all about Reggie and your WUNDERLICK, maybe people over their will love you sentiments about their new running back!

If he is a so-so RB why would anyone trade up to get him? You just proved he is the best player in the draft all by yourself. Maybe Vince would have run faster than 4.5 in his pro day if you weren't wrapped around his legs.

bad
03-25-2006, 10:44 PM
...Maybe Vince would have run faster than 4.5 in his pro day if you weren't wrapped around his legs.
Must. Contain. Laughter.
http://www.rocketpillow.com/bs/img/suicide.gif

el toro
03-25-2006, 10:52 PM
Vince Young will not be a Texan. Get over it already.

el toro
03-25-2006, 10:55 PM
Potential, he is 5'10 200 4.5 40yrd. He played on a team with great WR and Ol and QB. He ran so well because people could not commit to the run because their were larger threats. People commited to the run aginst Texas and Young still made the look stupid. Vince Young is by ran a much better choice for the Texans. Carr is washed up, he was never as good as Joy Harrington, and look at what his team did with him.

Does it ever occur to you that the Texans will be able to force teams to worry about the run and pass on every down next season? Vince Young made college defenses look stupid while lining up in the shotgun every friggin' time almost. That crap won't fly in the NFL.

SnakeOilTanker
03-25-2006, 11:13 PM
can't it be draft day already:brickwall

cuppacoffee
03-25-2006, 11:23 PM
Name me one back that ran for more than 3195yrds, avg'd 4.1 ypc, and has more than 1200yrds recieving.... someone playing now.
Ok, name five 1000 yard rushers who started more than 40 games their first three years in the league.

Give us Denver's running game.


I think Uncle Bob is going to Draft Vince, because he thinks the kid is talented.

TK ... ever read your own posts. :confused: .. :)

Give us Denvers running game? Draft Vince?

Vince will make a nice receiver, but running back? Not too sure about that.

:coffee:

thunderkyss
03-26-2006, 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeOilTanker
1.Dom Davis can't stay healthy, that makes RB a semi-need
Name me one back that ran for more than 3195yrds, avg'd 4.1 ypc, and has more than 1200yrds recieving.... someone playing now.
Ok, name five 1000 yard rushers who started more than 40 games their first three years in the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeOilTanker
2.The Texans biggest need on the entire team is another game changer and gamebreaker, the only other one they have is AJ.
Give us Denver's running game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeOilTanker
You draft Bush because they believe Carr is good enough to win a championship, espically with a talent like Bush.

Carr and Bush sounds alot better Than VY and DD to me....and most importantly I think thats what Kubes, Cass and Uncle Bob think.


I think Uncle Bob is going to Draft Vince, because he thinks the kid is talented.
TK ... ever read your own posts. :confused: .. :)

Vince will make a nice receiver, but running back? Not too sure about that.

:coffee:

Yes, I try to proofread....... don't want to many spelling errors.
SOT said we need a gamebreaker..... I'm saying give us Denver's zone blocking, and DD will be a game breaker.

Then I'm saying don't draft a running back, get us a franchise QB.

texplayer2
03-26-2006, 01:01 AM
Yes, I try to proofread....... don't want to many spelling errors.
SOT said we need a gamebreaker..... I'm saying give us Denver's zone blocking, and DD will be a game breaker.

Then I'm saying don't draft a running back, get us a franchise QB.

Matt Lienert means rebuilding year:) . Reggie would be adding a playmaker to the players we already have. With better line play we do not need to start over with a new QB.

Mightymike
03-26-2006, 01:36 AM
You said it, BPA aka Vince Young. He is a prototype QB 6'4 3/4 228 with game breaking ability, great leader, cluth in the big game, and when on the field he is the most dangerous player to face. He'll break you with his arm and his running ability in the open field is by far way better then reggie bush.

think again kid. reg bush got those nasty cutbacks
even, maybe. vy by far better, crazy

Tejaspro
03-26-2006, 01:52 AM
We do not need Reggie Bush and we will not pick him up. Reggie Bush will be wearing a Jets Ball Cap when he is standing on the podium at #1. Its ok we will be fine at #4 when we take Vince. We have a grat RB and Morency is a well develped backup. We are in need of a backup QB and the writing is on the wall. Just think about it. The Texans have not pursued any of the top backups, and we brought in a third stringer to fill in as a third stringer.

You are thinking with your heart instead of your head. There is absolutely no way that the Texans will trade their first pick. They will, without a doubt, pick Reggie Bush. He is a safe pick. Vince Young is not. Reggie Bush not only will bring a break away threat each time he touches the ball, but also will sell tickets. And Bob McNair not only wants to win, but also sell tickets.

You can scream, shout, and gnash your teeth, but come draft day... you will hear, "With the first pick in the 2006 draft, The Houston Texans pick.... Reggie Bush from USC".

And in the end, if you are a Texan's fan.... you will be happy they did. :yahoo:

MorKnolle
03-26-2006, 03:33 AM
We did not pay him top dollar. In comparison to other deals this past offseason his salary is the going rate. He has never proven himself as a starter and he is only good as a thrid stringer. Everyone in this Texans message board is Pro-Bush so why even try to bring to light the truth. He will be drafted #1 by the jets, he will never dress-up as a Texan, and by the third practice of the season, the Jets linebackers will break his little 5'10 200 lb body in half. Welcome to the real world people! Do you guys understand why no body wants the guy, because he is the second comming of Warrick Dunn, if that good.

Bush is built more solidly than Vince Young, so if anyone is going to get broken in half by LBers is going to be Vince with his far slower speed and quickness and being a bigger target that runs too upright.

Maddict5
03-26-2006, 07:44 AM
Look I played against vince while he played in Madison High and I know from prospective that he will be the best pick in this draft to come for us

really?? you think because you played v Vince in HS you've the perspective that hes the BPA for us...nevermind the fact that this occured a long time ago, what was reggie like when you played v him?????????:brickwall

HJam72
03-26-2006, 08:37 AM
really?? you think because you played v Vince in HS you've the perspective that hes the BPA for us...nevermind the fact that this occured a long time ago, what was reggie like when you played v him?????????:brickwall

Nobody talks about playing against Bush in high school, because they didn't SEE him run by all those times, lol. I'm not taking sides on this one--I just hope that somebody offers us fair value (or better) for a trade down. I'd rather take Bush, at this point, but that's only about Carr and his contract. Then there's the fact that only about 25% of the fans in this country think Young is even the best QB. Yeah, the majority could all be wrong, but I agree with them.

Wolf
03-26-2006, 10:43 PM
what gets me is people talk about how Kubiak is bringiing in an OL and it will help DD .. well wouldn't that help Carr also? doesn't having a legit TE going to help Carr and AJ??????


I am in the Adrian Peterson club for 07 and this year in the either Brick or DL this season with #1 overall..

newbiefan
03-26-2006, 10:53 PM
Also, I will be very dissappointed if we are in position to draft peterson next year. I can't say i know who all will be in the draft next year, but he will definitely go top 10, probably top 5. That means we would hafta have another terrible season, which i hope we dont.

Wolf
03-26-2006, 10:55 PM
Also, I will be very dissappointed if we are in position to draft peterson next year. I can't say i know who all will be in the draft next year, but he will definitely go top 10, probably top 5. That means we would hafta have another terrible season, which i hope we dont.

exactly, but I am hoping for a tradedown scenario like NYG and the Chargers did and get us in position to trade up in 07' :cool:

but that would be a dream

LoneStarState
03-26-2006, 11:03 PM
I am in the Adrian Peterson club for 07 and this year in the either Brick or DL this season with #1 overall..
Not much hope for 2006? What's the likelihood the Texans will be in position to get Peterson next year? Don't think we'll see another 2-14 season next year and doubtful we'll be in position for a high pick. You take advantage of the situation you are in now. To me, the choice is easy... take Reggie Bush. There are others who disagree - and that's fine. But let's worry about 2006 before we plan for 2007.

CITY CAT
03-26-2006, 11:10 PM
The New Orleans Saints showed everybody how to get to Kurt Warner, even with Orlando Pace protecting him......... Even with the real deal Marshall Faulk in the back field. Since then, teams tee off on Kurt Warner........ Much like they will Tee off on David Carr & Peyton Manning for the rest of their careers......... Kurt hasn't been able to consistently beat the blitz, so teams will continue, Carr hasn't been able to recognize when it's coming... They will not stop, until they find out that Carr/Kurt can beat them more often than not. I think that will be the case with Peyton, with most teams....... not so with Kurt, or Carr.[/QUOTE]

Carr is actually a very mobile QB

Bubbajwp
03-26-2006, 11:10 PM
Check it, it will be a long time if we ever see talent like Young again for real, the man is a rare talent that u just can't pass up. Now I know it'll be cool and all for Brick but dude it's all young baby.:yahoo:
That must be why he isnt even the highest rated QB in the draft. He is so good he could possibly fall out of the top ten.

Bubbajwp
03-26-2006, 11:11 PM
true true I hope we don't either. Draft young and we'll win this year who's with me?!
If we did draft Young he probably wouldnt play this year and if he did we would most likly end up with the first pick in next years draft and in a perfect position to draft AP.

HOOK'EM
03-26-2006, 11:21 PM
Young SUCKS, no way we waste a pick on that trash or a rookie QB for that matter. The Texans are not trying to start all over. You can see by the FA pickups.( filling the holes) Its BUSH all the way and he will be the new face of the Texans. :trophy: .......in a few years with BUSH, The CARR SHOW,& ANDRE tha GIANT!

el toro
03-27-2006, 01:07 AM
If we did draft Young he probably wouldnt play this year and if he did we would most likly end up with the first pick in next years draft and in a perfect position to draft AP.

...and then we don't play AP or VY in the following season and get a high pick in 2008. Perfect.

Screw that. Play to win for a change.

el toro
03-27-2006, 01:24 AM
Play to win, I know you did not say that! Draft Reggie Bush and you win 4 games next year and 5 the year after. Draft Vince Young you still when 4 this year, you get AP the next year, but you win 9 games with Vince Starting and Adrian Peterson being just a rookie. Within three years with those two and you are winning super bowls. You Pro-Bush guys are *****s! He is to small, to slow, and he wont last 4 games before he gets hurt. David Carr is not a has been, he is a never was. Joy Harrington was twice the QB Carr has been. If Carr was on any other team, he would have had his butt canned this year just like Capers.

Awesome. Maybe the team can win the #1 every year. I know I like cheering for a lousy record in order to land high draft picks.

I'd rather see the team avoid drafting a guy just because he's from this city. I can think of no worse reason than that. And at the end of the day, that's all you have to offer as to why this team should pick Young. I could care less where he is from. He's going to be a project in the pros, anyone paying any attention can see that. If this team is going to win anytime soon it should forget about trying to placate homerific fans worried about drafting the local boy made good. Failure to say no to fans when they are screaming for a bad move is step 1 in the downfall of any franchise.

Wolf
03-27-2006, 06:33 AM
I don't understand the logic that if VY were to get drafted that he would play this season. at WR? at RB at QB?

IF VY were to get drafted by the Texans then why did the Texans re-sign Carr to that 3 year deal? why did they get Rosenfels in FA? with Ragone as #3..

I'd be shocked if VY is named #1 overall by the Texans and if he is that good to move up the qb depth chart of the Texans then the front office moves of signing /re-signing the QB's are headscratchers

Wolf
03-27-2006, 06:34 AM
Awesome. Maybe the team can win the #1 every year. I know I like cheering for a lousy record in order to land high draft picks.

I'd rather see the team avoid drafting a guy just because he's from this city. I can think of no worse reason than that. And at the end of the day, that's all you have to offer as to why this team should pick Young. I could care less where he is from. He's going to be a project in the pros, anyone paying any attention can see that. If this team is going to win anytime soon it should forget about trying to placate homerific fans worried about drafting the local boy made good. Failure to say no to fans when they are screaming for a bad move is step 1 in the downfall of any franchise.

exactly

thunderkyss
03-27-2006, 09:00 AM
That must be why he isnt even the highest rated QB in the draft. He is so good he could possibly fall out of the top ten.
McNabb wasn't the highest rated QB......... Culpepper fell out of the top 10.... I don't think I understand what you are trying to say. Being picked #1 doesn't mean that you're the best player at your position, or the best player in the draft. It simply means a particular team likes what you bring to the table, and are willing to take a chance on you. Looking back, 4 years or so(except in David Carr's case) you'll be able to see who really was the best player.



I'd rather see the team avoid drafting a guy just because he's from this city. I can think of no worse reason than that. And at the end of the day, that's all you have to offer as to why this team should pick Young. I could care less where he is from. He's going to be a project in the pros, anyone paying any attention can see that. If this team is going to win anytime soon it should forget about trying to placate homerific fans worried about drafting the local boy made good. Failure to say no to fans when they are screaming for a bad move is step 1 in the downfall of any franchise.

If that's all you see....... then yeah. I guess I can understand your point. IMHO, I think Vince Could step in, from Day one in Denver(which we may very well resemble in 2006, 2007), Atlanta(of Course), New Orleans, Minnesota, Tennessee, Philadelphia, Houston, Detroit, SanDiego, SanFrancisco, Green Bay & any other team that either have mobile Quarterbacks, and moving the Quarterback is part of the game plan. Other teams included in this list, are team with new Head Coaches, new offensive systems... and/or rookie Quarterbacks.

Vince has shown, imho, that he will put in the work that is required, for him to be ready. He might not win his opener, but it won't take 10 games before he'll throw his first touchdown against a 2-14 team. I doubt very seriously, that any team he is on, can go 2-14.... & if it did, he won't be any worse, than the 1-15 Aikman(not that he is anything like Aikman but Troy wasn't considered a project, and they finished 1-15).

Errant Hothy
03-27-2006, 09:27 AM
Is Tim Couch a better QB than McNabb?? Is he better than Culpepper?? You do know he was "rated" Higher than those two right??

I never said Leinart was better, just that if QB is such a BIG need why not draft a QB who could start right away. The QB is this draft cloesest to being NFL ready is Leinart, both Young and Cutler need atleast a year of practice and bench time before they are ready to start.

As for the Couch comparisians, yes I know he was rated higher...contray to popular belief I'm not a child. And if I was Cleveland I probaly would have made the same pick. Culpepper was probaly a bigger risk then McNair and VY, and there was a reason McNaab got boo'ed by th ePhilly faithful (besides the fact that they boo everybody). And at the time the idea a running and passing QB in the NFL was still thought of as not possible, since we are talking pre-Vick.

thunderkyss
03-27-2006, 09:38 AM
I never said Leinart was better, just that if QB is such a BIG need why not draft a QB who could start right away. The QB is this draft cloesest to being NFL ready is Leinart, both Young and Cutler need atleast a year of practice and bench time before they are ready to start.

As for the Couch comparisians, yes I know he was rated higher...contray to popular belief I'm not a child. And if I was Cleveland I probaly would have made the same pick. Culpepper was probaly a bigger risk then McNair and VY, and there was a reason McNaab got boo'ed by th ePhilly faithful (besides the fact that they boo everybody). And at the time the idea a running and passing QB in the NFL was still thought of as not possible, since we are talking pre-Vick.

I believe McNabb getting Booed, and Mike Ditka becoming the laughing stock of the NFL are more closely related than those boos and the beliefe of running QBs....... they had Randall Cunningham for a while.

I think Vince is Perfect for the Texans..... I'd be happy, satisfied with Cutler, or even Omar. I think it is reasonable to believe they can be successful in the NFL...... If I gave David Carr $8 mill this year(which I personally never would have done) i won't be signing a Veteran ex-starter as a back-up, and I'm not going to Draft the most NFL ready QB, especially if he looks like David Carr with a weaker arm.

Errant Hothy
03-27-2006, 11:40 AM
I believe McNabb getting Booed, and Mike Ditka becoming the laughing stock of the NFL are more closely related than those boos and the beliefe of running QBs....... they had Randall Cunningham for a while.

I think Vince is Perfect for the Texans..... I'd be happy, satisfied with Cutler, or even Omar. I think it is reasonable to believe they can be successful in the NFL...... If I gave David Carr $8 mill this year(which I personally never would have done) i won't be signing a Veteran ex-starter as a back-up, and I'm not going to Draft the most NFL ready QB, especially if he looks like David Carr with a weaker arm.

The question wasn't who is the best QB, but rather that if QB is a need for the Texans (I beleive it isn't) then we not take teh QB who could fill that need much sooner then later. And that QB is not VY, who will need atleast 1 season before he is ready to start. Carr needed that season to, as do nearly all college QBs. But when we compare teh top 3 Qbs in this draft the one that is most NFL ready is Leinart, simply because he is the one who played in the most NFL like offense in college. DO I think he will be the best QB from this class? Probaly not. DO I think he'll be the one to be succesful first? Yes, I do.

David's Busted Carr
03-27-2006, 11:50 AM
Because if you have the opportunity to take THE BEST college player in the draft, you TAKE HIM.

Ask the New Jersey Nets how Sam Bowie worked out for them since they passed on Michael Jordan b/c the "didn't need a guard".

And besides, the front office is doing a great job filling in the holes in FA so they can draft the BEST AVAILABLE player in each round. That is a much smarter way to draft. Rather than take a subpar player from a specific "need" position, take the best available player.

Errant Hothy
03-27-2006, 12:10 PM
Because if you have the opportunity to take THE BEST college player in the draft, you TAKE HIM.

Ask the New Jersey Nets how Sam Bowie worked out for them since they passed on Michael Jordan b/c the "didn't need a guard".

And besides, the front office is doing a great job filling in the holes in FA so they can draft the BEST AVAILABLE player in each round. That is a much smarter way to draft. Rather than take a subpar player from a specific "need" position, take the best available player.

First, don't forgot Houston also passed on MJ to draft soem no-name named Hakeem, you know seeing as how they didn't need a gaurd and all.

The premise is not if VY/RB is the best player in teh draft, but rather that somebody thinks that QB is a need, and a big one; and my repsonse is that if QB is such a need why not address the need with a player who can play sooner rather then later.

Tha is all.

jacquescas
03-27-2006, 12:11 PM
Ask the New Jersey Nets how Sam Bowie worked out for them since they passed on Michael Jordan b/c the "didn't need a guard".




By the way it wasn't the New Jersey Nets who passed on Michael Jordan it was the Portland Trailblazers. The Nets had the 17th pick in that draft (1984) and selected Jeff Turner out of Vanderbuilt.

jacquescas
03-27-2006, 12:12 PM
First, don't forgot Houston also passed on MJ to draft soem no-name named Hakeem, you know seeing as how they didn't need a gaurd and all.

The premise is not if VY/RB is the best player in teh draft, but rather that somebody thinks that QB is a need, and a big one; and my repsonse is that if QB is such a need why not address the need with a player who can play sooner rather then later.

Tha is all.


Hakeem was not a no name when he was drafted 1st overall. He was the center of a final four team.

Mike Kerns
03-27-2006, 12:13 PM
I would say that I will be glad when the draft is over & we don't have to hear about V. Young anymore. BUt I realize that no matter where Vince goes, Carr will be forever compared to what VInce does. This isn't going away for awhile. But, stop trashing Reggie simply because you like Vince more. That is ridiculous.

Errant Hothy
03-27-2006, 12:18 PM
Hakeem was not a no name when he was drafted 1st overall. He was the center of a final four team.

It was/is called sarcasm.

It's also my standard reponse to the stupid MJ/Bowie comments I keep hearing; espically when people leave Hakeem out of the comparissons.

Porky
03-27-2006, 12:32 PM
Great post whisky, but it is about 8 months old! That was back before Vince was even in the mix. Soryy, but keep dreaming, Reggie Bush, 4.5 SSLLOOWWW for a RB Blazing for a QB. And with the fourth pick, the Houston Texans select Vince Young, QB University of Texas!

Change the P to a D, and that's what I think of your take.

bad
03-27-2006, 01:39 PM
...You Pro-Bush guys are *****s! He is to small, to slow, and he wont last 4 games before he gets hurt. I keep hearing this "Bush is too slow" comment and I wonder just what is in the kool-aid around here.

Reggie Bush is slow much in the same way that Yao Ming is short.

thunderkyss
03-27-2006, 02:14 PM
First, don't forgot Houston also passed on MJ to draft soem no-name named Hakeem, you know seeing as how they didn't need a gaurd and all.

The premise is not if VY/RB is the best player in teh draft, but rather that somebody thinks that QB is a need, and a big one; and my repsonse is that if QB is such a need why not address the need with a player who can play sooner rather then later.

Tha is all.

My take, is that I think Vince is a better QB in the way McNabb is better than Couch....... I would pick Mcnabb all day long over Couch.

now..... this is, if I had interviewed both QBs as Kubiak would do before making such a decision. It should be a lopsided interview, being able to spend months with David, in the gym, on the field, and in the film room, compared to the time he'll spend with Vince.

Vince will be coming to Houston, to work out with Kubiak..... after that, if he still decides to draft Reggie, I'll have no problems whatsoever.

Haams
03-27-2006, 06:05 PM
Maybe it is because everybody else understands the potential of having a player such as Bush on the team.To many possiblities to mention. With VY he has to prove he can read defenses while under center or he will have a very short career.

And, Bush has to prove... he can take a hit from an NFL defender, run between the tackles, and turn the corner against faster D's than anything he's faced.

Bush is in no way a lock to be a great NFL player, he is surrounded by question marks. He could be the next Marshall Faulk, he could have his tiny body crushed in the pre-season and never walk again.

Let's just stay realistic - what's up with all this bpa talk, in my opinion Reggie was the third best player on his ncaa team, and the second best RB. I would be more excited over White. Back to the bpa, have you seen Vince play? He did more in both Rose Bowl performances and against OSU than Reggie has ever done. Reggie has never been asked to demonstrate the same leadership or carry a team like Vince has. He came out and showed the nation he was the best running QB the ncaa had ever seen - people said he couldn't throw. He came out and led the nation in passing efficiency - people said he couldn't beat USC. They announced the heisman winner and Vince said I will come out on January 4th and show the world who the best player is. I challenge you to show me a performance on any level that topped that one.

I'm sorry but Reggie being the bpa is crap to me. #1 - his stats don't back that up. #2 - you're comparing a guy who will get 10-15 carries to a guy who will touch the ball every snap. Who does the D have to react to more. You think Vick can change a game? Wait untill you see a much bigger more athletic Vick, or VY.

El Amigo Invisible
03-27-2006, 06:18 PM
I think White looks more like an NFL player than Reggie. I think Reggie is a wonderful player(Mcneil is pretty good also).I do not know why we need him either.If Vince is gonna slip to the second round, I say draft Duff or Hawk and wait . We need guys on Defense so bad and these FA signing are good but there is something missing.:stirpot:

swtbound07
03-27-2006, 06:47 PM
I would say that I will be glad when the draft is over & we don't have to hear about V. Young anymore. BUt I realize that no matter where Vince goes, Carr will be forever compared to what VInce does. This isn't going away for awhile. But, stop trashing Reggie simply because you like Vince more. That is ridiculous.

stop trashing vince young because your heart is set on reggie. Door swings both ways. If Vince becomes a Texan, you will be hearing about him forever

Bubbajwp
03-27-2006, 07:27 PM
REG-GIE BUST! REG-GIE BUST! get off him people
Hmmm :spy:

DominickDavisFan76
03-27-2006, 07:29 PM
Yo I had another thread but it got removed, but anyway, do u think that the texans will still keep Reggie at #1 even after all our FA signings, what my real question is

Will we still take Reggie Bush, after just signing 3 more ppl
(Kenneth Pettway, Zeke Moreno, N.D. Kalu)

For me I would say that he still will be because we have worked on everything except for RB.

Bubbajwp
03-27-2006, 07:40 PM
We filled most of our needs in FA so we can draft BPA. Which is RB.

Erratic Assassin
03-27-2006, 09:18 PM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Running back is not our problem.

We've said since day one that we were going to build this team through the draft (like the Jaguars) rather than building through free agency (like the Panthers). If we're never going to address our needs in the draft, when are we ever going to address them?

If we had the 3rd-7th pick we'd draft for need (Ferguson, Williams, etc.), but we were cursed with the #1 overall pick and no one has the balls to pass on the "next Gayle Sayers" because the hype machine is in full effect.

texplayer2
03-28-2006, 12:55 AM
Running back is not our problem.

We've said since day one that we were going to build this team through the draft (like the Jaguars) rather than building through free agency (like the Panthers). If we're never going to address our needs in the draft, when are we ever going to address them?

If we had the 3rd-7th pick we'd draft for need (Ferguson, Williams, etc.), but we were cursed with the #1 overall pick and no one has the balls to pass on the "next Gayle Sayers" because the hype machine is in full effect.

I think the new staff has brought their own ideas about how they will build the team. We are getting a lot of help in free agency and the draft can be used to get depth. So much has changed since the end of last year, I don't know how anyone will know what our problems are until training camp.
Picking at the top is not a curse, it gives the team several good options that we don't have to wait and see if they will be availible. We might actually get to pick 3-4 times the first day this year! A 2-14 season is behind us and hopefully was a dip in the road to the play-offs.

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 09:08 AM
I don't know where this FA or Draft thing came from. To be successful, you have to be adept at managing both. If you were lucky like the Jags, and got:
1)Solid players at all positions, &
2) a coach who schemes to take advantage of his teams strenghts,

then you can be pretty quite in Free Agency, and build a strong team through the Draft. It might take you a while to get to were you're going, but if you stay true to the course, you'll get there.

Both the Jaguars, and the Panthers got to the Divisional Championship games with FAs, not rookies.

FAs are the fix for your team today....... the draft is for the future.....

We've got a new starting TE, C, FB, WR(soon), RB(maybe)........... that's half your offense right there. Then we have a new starting MLB, RDE, FS(hopefully) and LDE, WILL, & SAM, Will all be new to those positions. Both Defensive Tackles are going to be playing with different responsibilities also. That's eight positions on Defense. You can't fill them all with Rookies.

What I really like about what Kubiak has done, is that some of these positions, he's filled with young'ns, some with vets.... TE, FB, WR, DE all with 4 years or less.....

and on Defense, he's going to stop the run..... If you're going to be a championship team, you've got to do two things.
1) Run the ball
I think we've got that covered....... one way or the other.
2) Stop the Run
Yet to be seen, but I like what we're seeing so far.

Haams
03-28-2006, 10:34 AM
We filled most of our needs in FA so we can draft BPA. Which is RB.

Support this. I find it funny that so many people are stating this as fact. I say Reggie was an exceptional college player, and Vince was better. I only say this because:

1: Vince's best game was better than Reggie's
2: Vince's best season was better than Reggie's
3: Vince showed more leadership
4: Vince beat Reggie
5: Vince was the focal point of his team, Reggie was a side dish

To consider in the NFL:

1: The return game is out for Reggie, so a lot of yards from college are gone
2: He's small, he could make it, but it's not common
3: He's not going to get many carries, and I find it hard to believe he will force the defense to alter just by standing on the field
4: He wasn't fast enough to turn the corner on UT, how will he do it at the next level.
5: If Fresno State was in the AFC, he would be a good pick

Hawg
03-28-2006, 10:59 AM
Support this. I find it funny that so many people are stating this as fact. I say Reggie was an exceptional college player, and Vince was better. I only say this because:

1: Vince's best game was better than Reggie's
2: Vince's best season was better than Reggie's
3: Vince showed more leadership
4: Vince beat Reggie
5: Vince was the focal point of his team, Reggie was a side dish

To consider in the NFL:

1: The return game is out for Reggie, so a lot of yards from college are gone
2: He's small, he could make it, but it's not common
3: He's not going to get many carries, and I find it hard to believe he will force the defense to alter just by standing on the field
4: He wasn't fast enough to turn the corner on UT, how will he do it at the next level.
5: If Fresno State was in the AFC, he would be a good pick

NOT FAST ENOUGH TO TURN THE CORNER. Did you even see the National Championship game. He was running around that corner. The kid had 165 yards or more on offense. That says alot to me about his game. Because that defense was a powerhouse. Reggie is the man.

Errant Hothy
03-28-2006, 11:20 AM
4: He wasn't fast enough to turn the corner on UT, how will he do it at the next level.

Ummmm....I seem to recall a 26 yard TD run where Reggie turned the corner then vanished against the vaunted UT defense, or was I dreaming. Becasue I recall him gaining the edge then out running everybody, Huff and Griffin included, to the endzone.

But then again I forgot UT won teh Rose Bowl 347-0, with VY sorcing all of teh points, even FG and PATs.

Hawg
03-28-2006, 11:28 AM
Ummmm....I seem to recall a 26 yard TD run where Reggie turned the corner then vanished against the vaunted UT defense, or was I dreaming. Becasue I recall him gaining the edge then out running everybody, Huff and Griffin included, to the endzone.

But then again I forgot UT won teh Rose Bowl 347-0, with VY sorcing all of teh points, even FG andPATs.

AMEN BROTHER!

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 11:38 AM
In that game, he only turned the corner twice. One went for a score, and it looked really impressive.

But as being pointed out, as good as Texas was, the worst defense he'll see in the pros will be better than that team.

We'll play Philly this year. He'll have to get around Darren Howard on one end, and Jevon on the other, or come up the middle and talk to mister Jeremiah Trotter. Against Dallas, Demarcus Ware, and Roy Williams are going to make it a long day. Indy's got Brock, Freeny, and Gary Brackett. he'll have to get around Strahand, Umayemenyora(sp). I'm not saying that you can't run against these teams, or that Reggie will be shut down.

I'm just saying they aren't going to be as easy as Texas was......... not that Texas was easy.

Frills
03-28-2006, 11:41 AM
Our team has so many holes. We have need at almost EVERY position, and we're going to draft a running back? Which is our ONLY strong part?

WR, OL, QB, TE, DL, LB, S, CB All of these positon are our needs, and running back is definitely not our need!

Please trade down, or draft vince.

No matter how far it is trade down. If we can't trade down draft Vince.

How many yds did DD have in the last 3 games last season?

Why draft VY if we can't trade down, why not take Mario or D'Brick with the #1?

thanks

Errant Hothy
03-28-2006, 11:43 AM
In that game, he only turned the corner twice. One went for a score, and it looked really impressive.

But as being pointed out, as good as Texas was, the worst defense he'll see in the pros will be better than that team.

We'll play Philly this year. He'll have to get around Darren Howard on one end, and Jevon on the other, or come up the middle and talk to mister Jeremiah Trotter. Against Dallas, Demarcus Ware, and Roy Williams are going to make it a long day. Indy's got Brock, Freeny, and Gary Brackett. he'll have to get around Strahand, Umayemenyora(sp). I'm not saying that you can't run against these teams, or that Reggie will be shut down.

I'm just saying they aren't going to be as easy as Texas was......... not that Texas was easy.

No doubt.

But I've been hearing alot of "Reggie isn't fast enough" of "He's not that fast" and the final straw was the statement about Reggie not being able to get round the corner, espically against UT.

I hope Reggie thows something in the 4.25-4.35 range, so I can watch how fast teh flip-floping happens.

Hawg
03-28-2006, 11:45 AM
In that game, he only turned the corner twice. One went for a score, and it looked really impressive.

But as being pointed out, as good as Texas was, the worst defense he'll see in the pros will be better than that team.

We'll play Philly this year. He'll have to get around Darren Howard on one end, and Jevon on the other, or come up the middle and talk to mister Jeremiah Trotter. Against Dallas, Demarcus Ware, and Roy Williams are going to make it a long day. Indy's got Brock, Freeny, and Gary Brackett. he'll have to get around Strahand, Umayemenyora(sp). I'm not saying that you can't run against these teams, or that Reggie will be shut down.

I'm just saying they aren't going to be as easy as Texas was......... not that Texas was easy.

While all of your points are valid. I still beleive that Reggie will be able to bring it on the next level. Especially with the help of Kubes. Plus he already knows how to run within the zone locking scheme, seeing as that what he did at USC.

Go Texans.

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 11:55 AM
While all of your points are valid. I still beleive that Reggie will be able to bring it on the next level. Especially with the help of Kubes. Plus he already knows how to run within the zone locking scheme, seeing as that what he did at USC.

Go Texans.


If we draft Reggie, and I'm giving it a 89.98% chance of probability, I'm hoping you're right.

HeartofHouston
03-28-2006, 12:11 PM
People have a lotta knocks on Reggie Bush, his size and his game against Texas and how he wont be able to do all that stuff in college in the pros..

Well the fact of the matter is that You Have NO IDEA how well somebody is gonna do when it comes to moving to the next level..

The Only thing that we can do is judge of the style of offense/defense they ran in college and their production and potential.. Judging from all of those Reggie Bush is the guy.

Put him in the backfield, line him up next to DD, put him in the slot, our at WR put him in motion, put him on Kick Return, Punt return, put him in the stands and he'll prolly score from there too.. People are saying we dont need another RB, well Reggie Bush is not just a Running Back his is THE OFFENSIVE WEAPON.. his speed, ability, quickness, hands, vision, potential and versatility alone is worth the 1st overall pick.

Imagine having a guy that keeps Def coordinators up a late at night trying to figure out a way to plan for him.. they'll be in the office like..

"what if you guys into the slot? do I really want my OLB covering Bush on a deep pattern?" or.. "Should I roll my best corner to Bush??, we'll if I do that who do I put on Johnson, who do I put on mathis?"

Also with him in the backfield LBs are gonna have their eyes in the backfield looking for Bush to make a move and one thing that I can tell you about doing that is that as a LB youre gonna miss something.. and if LBs missing something, and with Johnson, Mathis, Putzier and Carr and all on the same page Defenses are gonna be walking off the field alot and passing them by will be their field goal blocking team.

In all honesty.. Johnson and Davis was not the easiest combo to stop.. but imagine Johnson, Bush, Mathis, Putzier and Davis.

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 12:35 PM
People have a lotta knocks on Reggie Bush, his size and his game against Texas and how he wont be able to do all that stuff in college in the pros..

Well the fact of the matter is that You Have NO IDEA how well somebody is gonna do when it comes to moving to the next level..

The Only thing that we can do is judge of the style of offense/defense they ran in college and their production and potential.. Judging from all of those Reggie Bush is the guy.

Put him in the backfield, line him up next to DD, put him in the slot, our at WR put him in motion, put him on Kick Return, Punt return, put him in the stands and he'll prolly score from there too.. People are saying we dont need another RB, well Reggie Bush is not just a Running Back his is THE OFFENSIVE WEAPON.. his speed, ability, quickness, hands, vision, potential and versatility alone is worth the 1st overall pick.

Imagine having a guy that keeps Def coordinators up a late at night trying to figure out a way to plan for him.. they'll be in the office like..

"what if you guys into the slot? do I really want my OLB covering Bush on a deep pattern?" or.. "Should I roll my best corner to Bush??, we'll if I do that who do I put on Johnson, who do I put on mathis?"

Also with him in the backfield LBs are gonna have their eyes in the backfield looking for Bush to make a move and one thing that I can tell you about doing that is that as a LB youre gonna miss something.. and if LBs missing something, and with Johnson, Mathis, Putzier and Carr and all on the same page Defenses are gonna be walking off the field alot and passing them by will be their field goal blocking team.

In all honesty.. Johnson and Davis was not the easiest combo to stop.. but imagine Johnson, Bush, Mathis, Putzier and Davis.


I think I'm going to puke.

Lucky
03-28-2006, 12:58 PM
I think I'm going to puke.
Thanks for the effort put into your rebuttal. Hope you made it to the toilet.

Haams
03-28-2006, 01:21 PM
NOT FAST ENOUGH TO TURN THE CORNER. Did you even see the National Championship game. He was running around that corner. The kid had 165 yards or more on offense. That says alot to me about his game. Because that defense was a powerhouse. Reggie is the man.

The kid had 13 carries for 82 yards. Decent, but not exceptional. He was outrushed by 2 people in that game: Lendale White and VY. My point is that some of y'all need to come back to earch and pick Reggies jock strap out of your teeth. Reggie is "the man" for a 165 yard (losing) performance. Vince is an also ran with his 467 yard performance? My whole point was about the best player available tag being placed on RB. All I ask is where is any proof of that. I understand he is an exceptional player (and I can even understand people thinking him a better fit for our team) but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.

dat_boy_yec
03-28-2006, 01:23 PM
How many yds did DD have in the last 3 games last season?

Why draft VY if we can't trade down, why not take Mario or D'Brick with the #1?

thanks

Umm, DD was out the last three games. So that would be a great reason to get RB over anybody else.
Because you would be passing up a great talent to fill needs that are no longer glaring.

Bubbajwp
03-28-2006, 01:27 PM
The kid had 13 carries for 82 yards. Decent, but not exceptional. He was outrushed by 2 people in that game: Lendale White and VY. My point is that some of y'all need to come back to earch and pick Reggies jock strap out of your teeth. Reggie is "the man" for a 165 yard (losing) performance. Vince is an also ran with his 467 yard performance? My whole point was about the best player available tag being placed on RB. All I ask is where is any proof of that. I understand he is an exceptional player (and I can even understand people thinking him a better fit for our team) but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.
When did VY ever play head to head I seem to remember both of them playing on offense. Correct me if im wrong. There teams played head to head. RB had a good game against a great defense. VY had a great game against a terrible offense.

dat_boy_yec
03-28-2006, 01:27 PM
The kid had 13 carries for 82 yards. Decent, but not exceptional. He was outrushed by 2 people in that game: Lendale White and VY. My point is that some of y'all need to come back to earch and pick Reggies jock strap out of your teeth. Reggie is "the man" for a 165 yard (losing) performance. Vince is an also ran with his 467 yard performance? My whole point was about the best player available tag being placed on RB. All I ask is where is any proof of that. I understand he is an exceptional player (and I can even understand people thinking him a better fit for our team) but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.

Gee, I guess your point is totally valid. I mean Reggie only did that againts the #1 ranked Defense that keyed in on him while Vince did his thing against the 48 ranked Defense. Even Huff said it had Reggie been on the field when White was stopped Huff would not have been able to help because he would have had to cover Reggie. Makes you wonder how White would have done had the defense keyed in on him.

Haams
03-28-2006, 01:52 PM
. I mean Reggie only did that againts the #1 ranked Defense that keyed in on him...

Thankyou, my point. Since we already established any pro D will be better than UT's are we counting on him giving us 13 carries for 57 yards as a pro? Reggie is a great player, but his BIG numbers came against sub-par teams. He still has not proven to me that he can dominate a great defense.

Errant Hothy
03-28-2006, 01:57 PM
Thankyou, my point. Since we already established any pro D will be better than UT's are we counting on him giving us 13 carries for 57 yards as a pro? Reggie is a great player, but his BIG numbers came against sub-par teams. He still has not proven to me that he can dominate a great defense.

So did VY's (big games), so what's you're point exactly.

It's not all that uncommon for teh best players to light up the lower ranked D's, that's one of the things that makes predicting succes from the NCAA to the NFL so hard.

Look at Reggie's year numbers, and see that he was 3rd in rushing while carrying the ball a 100 fewer times then the guys who finished first and second. To do that you have to be good against all comers, all weeks.

swtbound07
03-28-2006, 02:14 PM
Gee, I guess your point is totally valid. I mean Reggie only did that againts the #1 ranked Defense that keyed in on him while Vince did his thing against the 48 ranked Defense. Even Huff said it had Reggie been on the field when White was stopped Huff would not have been able to help because he would have had to cover Reggie. Makes you wonder how White would have done had the defense keyed in on him.


Nfl defenses will be vastly superior to college ones, and THEY WILL KEY IN ON HIM.

Errant Hothy
03-28-2006, 02:18 PM
Nfl defenses will be vastly superior to college ones, and THEY WILL KEY IN ON HIM.

Yes they will, but saying that is a reason to not draft Reggie, and possible draft VY is faulty logic. Becasue NFL Ds will also key on VY, linebackers will be faster and D linemen stronger.

Also the Texans, with AJ, Putz, maybe Moulds and a revamped line, Ds will be more recluctant to key on a single player; assuming Carr can complete some 20 yarders when the opposing D stacks teh line.

swtbound07
03-28-2006, 02:39 PM
Yes they will, but saying that is a reason to not draft Reggie, and possible draft VY is faulty logic. Becasue NFL Ds will also key on VY, linebackers will be faster and D linemen stronger.

Also the Texans, with AJ, Putz, maybe Moulds and a revamped line, Ds will be more recluctant to key on a single player; assuming Carr can complete some 20 yarders when the opposing D stacks teh line.

Thats an assumption im unwilling to make. Carr complete a pass? Preposterous.

dat_boy_yec
03-28-2006, 03:06 PM
Nfl defenses will be vastly superior to college ones, and THEY WILL KEY IN ON HIM.

You say that, but speed wise Texas is just as fast as an NFL defense and Reggie got to the corner and burned them. They had linebackers that were converted safeties. Michael Huff is a first rd. safety and he didn't catch Reggie on that play. If they key in on him that's great because it will allow the rest of our team to flourish. Point blank he will benfit our offense more than any other player in the draft. I'd go as far as saying he can help our team more than any player in the draft period. I don't have inflated expectations but in comparing him to all the other prospects he is the best option available.

el toro
03-28-2006, 03:22 PM
People have a lotta knocks on Reggie Bush, his size and his game against Texas and how he wont be able to do all that stuff in college in the pros..

Well the fact of the matter is that You Have NO IDEA how well somebody is gonna do when it comes to moving to the next level..

The Only thing that we can do is judge of the style of offense/defense they ran in college and their production and potential.. Judging from all of those Reggie Bush is the guy.

Put him in the backfield, line him up next to DD, put him in the slot, our at WR put him in motion, put him on Kick Return, Punt return, put him in the stands and he'll prolly score from there too.. People are saying we dont need another RB, well Reggie Bush is not just a Running Back his is THE OFFENSIVE WEAPON.. his speed, ability, quickness, hands, vision, potential and versatility alone is worth the 1st overall pick.

Imagine having a guy that keeps Def coordinators up a late at night trying to figure out a way to plan for him.. they'll be in the office like..

"what if you guys into the slot? do I really want my OLB covering Bush on a deep pattern?" or.. "Should I roll my best corner to Bush??, we'll if I do that who do I put on Johnson, who do I put on mathis?"

Also with him in the backfield LBs are gonna have their eyes in the backfield looking for Bush to make a move and one thing that I can tell you about doing that is that as a LB youre gonna miss something.. and if LBs missing something, and with Johnson, Mathis, Putzier and Carr and all on the same page Defenses are gonna be walking off the field alot and passing them by will be their field goal blocking team.

In all honesty.. Johnson and Davis was not the easiest combo to stop.. but imagine Johnson, Bush, Mathis, Putzier and Davis.


Exactly. Hopefully Moulds will be added to that mix.

You will have the talent and the coaching to create an explosive offense soon. Not in 2010. Now. I don't understand why so many are so ready to jettison that to get a prospect elsewhere (and not much else, from the myriad trade down proposals I've seen in this forum). Why stop yourself from taking a real shot at having a top notch offense? Guilt? Fear?

You don't have to address both sides of the team this offseason equally. The D hasn't been ignored, but if you have the opportunity to turn your offensive into an awesome unit, why not? That's what this draft is about, opportunity. Sure, if someone showed up with 5 high picks between this draft and the next, then you think about dealing it. But not this crap about, say the #5 and a 5th rounder.

BeReal
03-28-2006, 03:25 PM
Nfl defenses will be vastly superior to college ones, and THEY WILL KEY IN ON HIM.

People are quick to point out that if Young's ability to run is minimized by the speed of NFL players; wouldn't that also mean Bush's will be neutralized as well??

NO. What people fail to recognize is when Bush runs the ball, he will have blockers and the play is designed for him to run. However, unless the play is a QB draw, then Young’s runs will be improvised. Thus he will not have the blocking or the design of the play to help him advance the ball.

el toro
03-28-2006, 03:26 PM
When VY torches college defenses that means he will be a superstar in the NFL. When Reggie Bush does it that means he was playing against nothing like he will see at the next level.

Understood.

Haams
03-28-2006, 05:47 PM
When VY torches college defenses that means he will be a superstar in the NFL. When Reggie Bush does it that means he was playing against nothing like he will see at the next level.

Understood.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Reggie won't be a very good NFL player. My posts were mainly directed at those who said we should take RB because he was the bpa, period. I don't think that's true at all. I think you can make valid arguments for Bush, VY, Mario, and Ferguson at #1.

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.

dat_boy_yec
03-28-2006, 06:07 PM
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Reggie won't be a very good NFL player. My posts were mainly directed at those who said we should take RB because he was the bpa, period. I don't think that's true at all. I think you can make valid arguments for Bush, VY, Mario, and Ferguson at #1.

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.

True you can make an argument for any of those players, but at the end of the day which argument will be the strongest. You may not see the point in taking Bush, but the same thing can be said for Young. Why is he not worth the first rd pick? Explain to me who we should take that would have a greater positive impact than Bush.

OzzO
03-28-2006, 06:39 PM
Maybe Bush can explain it to the Texans FO over dinner.....



Texans | Team will meet with R. Bush
Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:01:07 -0800

Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, reports USC RB Reggie Bush will have dinner with Houston Texans owner Bob McNair, head coach Gary Kubiak, and general manager Charley Casserly April 1, the night before his Pro Day. He is scheduled to travel to Houston for a visit April 6.

dirty steve
03-28-2006, 06:44 PM
The kid had 13 carries for 82 yards. Decent, but not exceptional. He was outrushed by 2 people in that game: Lendale White and VY. My point is that some of y'all need to come back to earch and pick Reggies jock strap out of your teeth. Reggie is "the man" for a 165 yard (losing) performance. Vince is an also ran with his 467 yard performance? My whole point was about the best player available tag being placed on RB. All I ask is where is any proof of that. I understand he is an exceptional player (and I can even understand people thinking him a better fit for our team) but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.

6 yards a carry is decent?

NederlandTexan
03-28-2006, 06:47 PM
Nfl defenses will be vastly superior to college ones, and THEY WILL KEY IN ON HIM.
The great players are always "keyed on" and still manage to make things happen. Some feel Bush is that type of player, you clearly do not.

newbiefan
03-28-2006, 06:53 PM
I hope defenses key on him, which they won't until he proves himself. But if he gets say 50 yards but for some reason is still the focus of defenses (ie... taking away pass rush/ drawing extra guys to the line) for carr to throw for say 300, then he's still a success in my book.

Carr Bombed
03-28-2006, 06:58 PM
but the fact remains VY did more in college than Reggie did. The numbers don't lie. The head to head matchup doesn't lie.

That definitely is not a fact. So VY did more in college than Reggie Bush, how. Bush has TWO college championships, 1 hiesman, finished 5th in voting the year before. He also ranked first in all-purpose yards per game. Bush would also hold almost every statistical record in USC's history, (which is a history filled with legendary backs such as Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson), if he didn't have to split carries with Lendale White.

He had a 6.3 rushing avg. against Texas, which btw was a HIGHER AVG. than Lendale White had in that game. Texas didn't stop Bush, Pete Carroll did, thats the truth. All year Bush came up with big plays and in the biggest game of the year Carroll didn't give his player a chance. As a Texas fan I'm thankful he didn't, because I feel we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Bush also had almost 100 yards recieving on just 6 catches at just shy of 16 yards a catch and he did it against the countries top secondary.

Like another poster already said I find it funny how when it comes to Bush, he has to prove what he can do at the NFL level, but when it comes to Young he is the chosen one and is already proven in the eyes of horn fans.

You see the thing that seperates me from other Texas fans is that once Saturday is over and Sunday starts, I take off the burnt orange and put on the steel blue. I recognize what Bush can bring to this team and I recognize the gamble that Young is at the next level.

I love what Young did for Texas and wish him the best, but he has too many questions to be selected with the first pick and as a Texas and Texan fan I can honestly say that if I felt we needed a QB I would be on board with taking Lienart and not Vince and I'm not alone, the entire country and almost every GM shares my opinion. Vince may have a higher ceiling, but the chance of busting with him is double.

Lienart had a perfect second half against one of the best defenses in the country and ran a very complex PRO style offense, he is much more suited for the pro level.

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.

scroll to the bottom of the page (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/)

Having said all of that, it really doesn't matter, because all of our questions will be answered April 29.

swtbound07
03-28-2006, 07:38 PM
That definitely is not a fact. So VY did more in college than Reggie Bush, how. Bush has TWO college championships, 1 hiesman, finished 5th in voting the year before. He also ranked first in all-purpose yards per game. Bush would also hold almost every statistical record in USC's history, (which is a history filled with legendary backs such as Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson), if he didn't have to split carries with Lendale White.

He had a 6.3 rushing avg. against Texas, which btw was a HIGHER AVG. than Lendale White had in that game. Texas didn't stop Bush, Pete Carroll did, thats the truth. All year Bush came up with big plays and in the biggest game of the year Carroll didn't give his player a chance. As a Texas fan I'm thankful he didn't, because I feel we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Bush also had almost 100 yards recieving on just 6 catches at just shy of 16 yards a catch and he did it against the countries top secondary.

Like another poster already said I find it funny how when it comes to Bush, he has to prove what he can do at the NFL level, but when it comes to Young he is the chosen one and is already proven in the eyes of horn fans.

You see the thing that seperates me from other Texas fans is that once Saturday is over and Sunday starts, I take off the burnt orange and put on the steel blue. I recognize what Bush can bring to this team and I recognize the gamble that Young is at the next level.

I love what Young did for Texas and wish him the best, but he has too many questions to be selected with the first pick and as a Texas and Texan fan I can honestly say that if I felt we needed a QB I would be on board with taking Lienart and not Vince and I'm not alone, the entire country and almost every GM shares my opinion. Vince may have a higher ceiling, but the chance of busting with him is double.

Lienart had a perfect second half against one of the best defenses in the country and ran a very complex PRO style offense, he is much more suited for the pro level.

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.

scroll to the bottom of the page (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/)

Having said all of that, it really doesn't matter, because all of our questions will be answered April 29.

www.onepeat.com

Stop giving USC too much credit...one national championship. Stop slighting lsu, the bcs champion. Dynasty? Methinks not

Carr Bombed
03-28-2006, 07:54 PM
www.onepeat.com

Stop giving USC too much credit...one national championship. Stop slighting lsu, the bcs champion. Dynasty? Methinks notI'm just holding them to the same standard that history holds them to and not bitter LSU fans. 20 years from now USC will be known as repeat champions, its not their fault that the college football championship system is flawed. They aren't the first team that had to share a title and they won't be the last. They have just as much right to that title as LSU, thats why they had to share the title.

Carr Bombed
03-28-2006, 08:14 PM
In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.
By Carr Bomb

The only reason Carr even has a chance is he's been here from day 1 and another thing ...dude.. Carr has no comparison by far to the best talent at QB EVER yes there I said it EVER.( I mean all around QB):crazy:

Thank you for proving my point, this is exactly what I mean. Bush has to prove himself (which is true), while Young is the best QB EVER.

As far as the only reason why "Carr even has a chance", that is total bs. After the Rosebowl the majority of this city wanted VY, but after the hype died down, they now choose Carr. This has absolutely nothing to do where Carr plays, seeing how the ENTIRE COUNTRY shares the same opinion.

TreWardTxn
03-28-2006, 08:15 PM
That definitely is not a fact. So VY did more in college than Reggie Bush, how. Bush has TWO college championships, 1 hiesman, finished 5th in voting the year before. He also ranked first in all-purpose yards per game. Bush would also hold almost every statistical record in USC's history, (which is a history filled with legendary backs such as Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson), if he didn't have to split carries with Lendale White.

He had a 6.3 rushing avg. against Texas, which btw was a HIGHER AVG. than Lendale White had in that game. Texas didn't stop Bush, Pete Carroll did, thats the truth. All year Bush came up with big plays and in the biggest game of the year Carroll didn't give his player a chance. As a Texas fan I'm thankful he didn't, because I feel we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Bush also had almost 100 yards recieving on just 6 catches at just shy of 16 yards a catch and he did it against the countries top secondary.

Like another poster already said I find it funny how when it comes to Bush, he has to prove what he can do at the NFL level, but when it comes to Young he is the chosen one and is already proven in the eyes of horn fans.

You see the thing that seperates me from other Texas fans is that once Saturday is over and Sunday starts, I take off the burnt orange and put on the steel blue. I recognize what Bush can bring to this team and I recognize the gamble that Young is at the next level.

I love what Young did for Texas and wish him the best, but he has too many questions to be selected with the first pick and as a Texas and Texan fan I can honestly say that if I felt we needed a QB I would be on board with taking Lienart and not Vince and I'm not alone, the entire country and almost every GM shares my opinion. Vince may have a higher ceiling, but the chance of busting with him is double.

Lienart had a perfect second half against one of the best defenses in the country and ran a very complex PRO style offense, he is much more suited for the pro level.

In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.

scroll to the bottom of the page (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/)

Having said all of that, it really doesn't matter, because all of our questions will be answered April 29.

Since we're all high on "facts" at the moment, I just wanted to point out a few that fall in the opinion column after a glance.

Just as you say Bush gained all those yards in spite of splitting time with Lendale, it can easily be said that all that production came because White was there to pound the D and wear them out to the point they weren't able to chase Bush to the corners and handle his quickness. No coach has a player for 3 years, talks about how amazing he is, and then in the biggest game of their lives not give him the ball enough times because of a "brain fart." He felt pounding White gave them the best chance to win.
Bush is an extraordinary talent, but will always need a number-one quality back to spell him, which is why DD doesn't have much to worry about being on the bench too much...

There are plenty of scouts, GMs, and pundits genuinely high on Vince Young's talent. Let's say the Texans had no QB, you honestly telling me you would want a just-as-slow, weaker-armed Drew Bledsoe with a pre-existing knee injury over what could be the most dynamic QB in NFL history, all because the first guy has taken more snaps from center already? I want no part of that on my football team. Like you said, some people are trying to hand Vince the crown already, but I'm not gonna give it to any other guy either just because he has a "traditional" throwing motion...

And just as an aside; Bush was primarily a PR during that first (split) NC year, and he owes his Heisman to the USC defense, which decided that Fresno State was the most unstoppable force in College Football that Sat night. Not as if Heismans matter (they've been an NFL curse mostly), but consider the fact that Young sat out a few second halves and you see numbers do lie sometimes...

hollywood_texan
03-28-2006, 08:19 PM
I'm just holding them to the same standard that history holds them to and not bitter LSU fans. 20 years from now USC will be known as repeat champions, its not their fault that the college football championship system is flawed. They aren't the first team that had to share a title and they won't be the last. They have just as much right to that title as LSU, thats why they had to share the title.

You are putting too much into USC and Reggie Bush.

As I understand all the major conferences agreed to the BCS so a single national champion is crowned. Maybe it is flawed, but USC agreed to it and should have never claimed a national championship. They don't even have the respect to say co-national champions.

Texas has a requirement that they have win the BCS as #1 to light the tower #1. For whatever that is worth.

Bush is a good player, but watch the Texas game. He's average yards are overstated because of two or three plays. Reggie Bush is either feast or famine. That is why Len Dale White always ran on fourth down for USC and was quiet successful except for that one play. Even Matt Lienart sneaks it on 4th down when Bush is in the game and what is Bush good for, a push.

Bush will have a good NFL career but it will be marked only by highlight reel plays. In the clutch, when you need 5 yards, he is more than likely not your man. However, when it is 2 and 8 and will probably do something awesome.

I think his average yards per run and catch are misleading. I think if you separated the one between under 10 and over, you will see that he makes bulk of yards on two or three plays. Furthermore, you will see most of his plays under 10 yards average below 5 yards, just a guess from watching him.

Just as some people say Vince Young is a 10 pick but not #1, Reggie Bush in not a #1 pick.

He will demand too much money, and if the offense complete takes off, how do you keep Carr, Davis, Johnson, Bush, and these other free agents? Just look at Indy with James.

Trade down and take Ferguson, Williams, Hawk, or Huff. That will help the team out more. Stuff the run and run at will should be the focus.

Carr Bombed
03-28-2006, 08:37 PM
Deleted insult--infantrycak

WOW very intelligent comeback, you really got me with that one :rolleyes:

As far as how you played against him in High School, yeah I've heard that rant before and every person that ever got schooled by a NFL prospect thinks the same thing. I'm sure there is hundred of little high school players that Reggie made look stupid out there too.

But hey we have to take Vince, because this high school football player thinks we should, yeah I'll buy that. :pigfly:

tsip
03-28-2006, 09:18 PM
WOW very intelligent comeback, you really got me with that one :rolleyes:

I guess 60% of Houston is made up of dumb u know whats, HUH, yeah :ok:

As far as how you played against him in High School, yeah I've heard that rant before and every person that every got schooled by a NFL prospect thinks the same thing. I'm sure there is hundred of little high school players that Reggie made look stupid out there too.

But hey we have to take Vince, because this high school football player thinks we should, yeah I'll buy that. :pigfly:

...always one more 'up' post, huh?

Carr Bombed
03-28-2006, 09:26 PM
...always one more 'up' post, huh?

What :confused: please explain.

dat_boy_yec
03-28-2006, 09:50 PM
Ok, let me break some things down for people. Young is not "Better than Carr" He hasn't played a snap yet. To those who say he will be harder to bring down because of his size you got to be kidding me. You say the forty doesn't matter, but in a way it does in Young's case. He ran in the 4.5's not the 4.2's so he is much slower than Vick. How many times does Vick take a licking. Young won't have the speed to avoid taking some of the same hits as Vick. Also Vick is more elusive because of his size it is one thing for a guy around six ft. to spin off a tackle and keep running. It doesn't work the same way for a 6'5'' 230 pounder. Young presents a bigger target and while that was an advantage in college it will be exploited in the NFL. I could keep breaking Young down, but for what the guy is a great athlete and he'll have growing pains in the NFL just like anybody else.
Try to break Reggie down the same way. You really can't the guy has speed everybody saying that he'll can't handle the NFL speed is tripping because he is faster than most guys in the league right now. You know what he packs the same punch as a heavier slower back because he carries the same force and being smaller that force is more compact, basically if a guy gets in his way when RB's running full speed and RB hits him it will hurt. The guy can run inside there is even a run he breaks from the inside in the highlight clip floating around. I don't get it why does everybody think he won't make it in the NFL. The guy has all the tools to be great. Yet, everybody beats the guy down for nothing. Unlike Young there is really no reason to say he won't make it. Name me one legitimate reason he won't make it. Something thats not a gut feeling or to do with the probability of injury because everybody no matter who can be injured.

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 10:06 PM
Exactly. Hopefully Moulds will be added to that mix.

You will have the talent and the coaching to create an explosive offense soon. Not in 2010. Now. I don't understand why so many are so ready to jettison that to get a prospect elsewhere (and not much else, from the myriad trade down proposals I've seen in this forum). Why stop yourself from taking a real shot at having a top notch offense? Guilt? Fear?

You don't have to address both sides of the team this offseason equally. The D hasn't been ignored, but if you have the opportunity to turn your offensive into an awesome unit, why not? That's what this draft is about, opportunity. Sure, if someone showed up with 5 high picks between this draft and the next, then you think about dealing it. But not this crap about, say the #5 and a 5th rounder.

That unit starts with the QB. We haven't really addressed that problem. David had a poor, poor offensive line. We have seen how he reacts under pressure. What's that they say about coal...... after a while, it turns into diamonds?? every now & then, you have to undersand you've just got a beat up piece of coal.

It doesn't matter how many offensive weapons you have around the QB, if he can't beat a blitz, Defenses won't afford any more attention to those weapons than they would any other talent. Peyton got owned by the Steelers, didn't matter that he had arguably the best WR at his disposal, or that he's got a ProBowl Running back, a legit #2 Reciever, a Probowl TE, or Probowl offensive linemen. Now, there are only so many teams that are going to try that with Peyton. Look for it to happen often at the begining of the season. Many are going to find that Peyton will beat them more often than not, and will back off on that pressure.

Carr got owned by the worst teams in the NFL..... not just one, or two of the worst teams, but the worst teams in the NFL.

Sure play calling had a part to do with that. But so did Carr.

Drafting Vince won't help us next year. But I still believe it is the right move for the Texans.

More than likely Houston Won't be drafting Vince come April, doesn't change the Fact that I think they should.
People are quick to point out that if Young's ability to run is minimized by the speed of NFL players; wouldn't that also mean Bush's will be neutralized as well??

NO. What people fail to recognize is when Bush runs the ball, he will have blockers and the play is designed for him to run. However, unless the play is a QB draw, then Young’s runs will be improvised. Thus he will not have the blocking or the design of the play to help him advance the ball.

Think about how many times DD was hit in the backfield. That has nothing to do with DD's speed, or lack thereof?? In these situations, there won't be any getting to the corner. Reggie can make the first guy miss in college, he has yet to prove he can do it in the NFL. Defenses also plan on taking out the blocker(s) just as much as Offenses plan on having a blocker.

I'm not giving VY an edge in these situations either.

Bubbajwp
03-28-2006, 10:35 PM
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Reggie won't be a very good NFL player. My posts were mainly directed at those who said we should take RB because he was the bpa, period. I don't think that's true at all. I think you can make valid arguments for Bush, VY, Mario, and Ferguson at #1.

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.
Insert Vince Youngs name for Bush and that is exactly how I feel.

Bubbajwp
03-28-2006, 10:38 PM
In the latest polls Vince is losing in his own backyard to David Carr.
By Carr Bomb

The only reason Carr even has a chance is he's been here from day 1 and another thing ...dude.. Carr has no comparison by far to the best talent at QB EVER yes there I said it EVER.( I mean all around QB):crazy:
Sometimes I just dont know what to say.

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 10:49 PM
When VY torches college defenses that means he will be a superstar in the NFL. When Reggie Bush does it that means he was playing against nothing like he will see at the next level.

Understood.

That is the same argument being laid against Vince. Bush isn't going to miss a beat, in fact, he will be better than he was in college....... But Vince won't be able to run against faster defenses, he won't be able to elude those NFL tackles, and he will get hurt with his un-orthodox running.




Understood.

texplayer2
03-28-2006, 10:54 PM
I'm not giving VY an edge in these situations either. By Tkyss

Shoot I am and I still agree that Carr is no match for Vince at all and anybody that thinks so really....I mean really don't know the true talent when one smacks them in the face.true true.

Vince(in College) had a hugh line to hide behind and a great recruiting class along with him. He didn't lead a rag-tag bunch of losers to the Rose Bowl Victory with his magnetism.(Amazing he excelled!) Carr I believe was a pretty good College QB as well with a lot less talent around him. His four years here in Houston have been less than stellar, but he is a pro QB.( I bet he would have beaten down Colorado twice just as Vince did this year and standing behind the Texas line he probably would have picked USC to pieces with his PASSING. QB's take time to Develope.

MorKnolle
03-28-2006, 10:54 PM
You are putting too much into USC and Reggie Bush.

As I understand all the major conferences agreed to the BCS so a single national champion is crowned. Maybe it is flawed, but USC agreed to it and should have never claimed a national championship. They don't even have the respect to say co-national champions.

Texas has a requirement that they have win the BCS as #1 to light the tower #1. For whatever that is worth.

Bush is a good player, but watch the Texas game. He's average yards are overstated because of two or three plays. Reggie Bush is either feast or famine. That is why Len Dale White always ran on fourth down for USC and was quiet successful except for that one play. Even Matt Lienart sneaks it on 4th down when Bush is in the game and what is Bush good for, a push.

Bush will have a good NFL career but it will be marked only by highlight reel plays. In the clutch, when you need 5 yards, he is more than likely not your man. However, when it is 2 and 8 and will probably do something awesome.

I think his average yards per run and catch are misleading. I think if you separated the one between under 10 and over, you will see that he makes bulk of yards on two or three plays. Furthermore, you will see most of his plays under 10 yards average below 5 yards, just a guess from watching him.

Just as some people say Vince Young is a 10 pick but not #1, Reggie Bush in not a #1 pick.

He will demand too much money, and if the offense complete takes off, how do you keep Carr, Davis, Johnson, Bush, and these other free agents? Just look at Indy with James.

Trade down and take Ferguson, Williams, Hawk, or Huff. That will help the team out more. Stuff the run and run at will should be the focus.

That's generally how most RBs work. The vast majority of RBs don't get 3-5 yards every single time they run the ball, they get a lot of no gains or even losses mixed in with a couple big gains that all average out. One of the main points with Bush is that he has the potential to make those big gains even bigger, to make those 25-40 yard runs that Davis and Wells have been making and turning those into longer TD runs. As for LenDale White in the Rose Bowl, football is a game of matchups and White matched up better against Texas than Bush did in those situations. Texas' defense was built around speed not power, so naturally when you're in short yardage situations you'd rather have a RB that is as big as the opposing team's LBs to pound it down their throats. Do the Steelers use Willie Parker on 3rd and goal from the 1 or do they use Jerome Bettis (see end of playoff game with Indy)? Does that mean Parker sucks and isn't a clutch player? No, it means you have different players that fill different roles on a team and you put guys in situations to best help the team. Bush is not a power RB and he never will be, that's why LenDale White was in on goallines and short yardage situations while Bush was in on most general plays. You can't find guys with amazing speed that are also 235 lbs. and great short yardage power RBs, that just doesn't happen.

That said, I agree that I'd prefer to take Mario Williams, whether that is by a trade down or just taking him at #1. He is more of a rare combination of size and speed and improving our pass rush is one of our two biggest needs.

texplayer2
03-28-2006, 11:01 PM
That is the same argument being laid against Vince. Bush isn't going to miss a beat, in fact, he will be better than he was in college....... But Vince won't be able to run against faster defenses, he won't be able to elude those NFL tackles, and he will get hurt with his un-orthodox running.




Understood.

Bush will fit INTO a system quickly as another option. Vince will have to become the system and be built around( which will take alot more time.).

Mike Kerns
03-28-2006, 11:09 PM
Love is deaf....as well as blind. . .

thunderkyss
03-28-2006, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haams

Myself, I think Bush makes the least sense because DD is one of the leaders in all-purpose yards in the league and there is no guarantee that Bush will be more productive. I favor VY because I think if he fulfills his potential you are not only looking at the best player in the league, but a player who can change the position (think Shaq in basketball.) In no way am I trying to say that Bush sucks or will be unproductive, but I am tired of people blindly believing he's the second coming who is going to lead the franchise to glory with very little evidence to back that up.

I've said it before: I think Bush can make a decent team good, a good team great, but not a bad team good. I don't know that he can carry a team and I don't know that he's worth a first round pick to us.

Insert Vince Youngs name for Bush and that is exactly how I feel.

Admit it. This is a luxury pick. We don't need Reggie Bush, we'll be competitve next year, and will have a successful season. May even beat .500. With or without Reggie.

DD is a reason for Texans fans to be excited. his first two years, he ran for 1000yards. missed it his third season by 24 yards. he is amoung the league leaders in total purpose yards, and he is over 30% of our offense.

We have a promising second year player, at running back.

Then we have a coach, and a coaching system, that would allow ButterBean to gain 1000 yards.
Picking Reggie, is a total luxury pick. Period.

We are spending it on a player we don't need in 2006. IT would be nice, oh so nice to have him next year. But, we do have questions about our QB. He folds under pressure, has no idea where his pocket is, throws sideways after 4 years in the league, hasn't shown the ability to read, pickup, and beat the blitz, and he stares down his recievers.

He can be fixed........ so can Couch........... nah, we didn't want him. So can Joey...... just as talented as Carr, how can anyone say he isn't? Heck, while we're at it, let's bring Ryan leaf to Houston, i'm sure we can fix him too. despite all this optomism, the possibility for Carr to be a bust does exist. How do I know?? because we are at year 5, and still don't know.

texplayer2
03-28-2006, 11:59 PM
Admit it. This is a luxury pick. We don't need Reggie Bush, we'll be competitve next year, and will have a successful season. May even beat .500. With or without Reggie.

DD is a reason for Texans fans to be excited. his first two years, he ran for 1000yards. missed it his third season by 24 yards. he is amoung the league leaders in total purpose yards, and he is over 30% of our offense.

We have a promising second year player, at running back.

Then we have a coach, and a coaching system, that would allow ButterBean to gain 1000 yards.
Picking Reggie, is a total luxury pick. Period.

We are spending it on a player we don't need in 2006. IT would be nice, oh so nice to have him next year. But, we do have questions about our QB. He folds under pressure, has no idea where his pocket is, throws sideways after 4 years in the league, hasn't shown the ability to read, pickup, and beat the blitz, and he stares down his recievers.

He can be fixed........ so can Couch........... nah, we didn't want him. So can Joey...... just as talented as Carr, how can anyone say he isn't? Heck, while we're at it, let's bring Ryan leaf to Houston, i'm sure we can fix him too. despite all this optomism, the possibility for Carr to be a bust does exist. How do I know?? because we are at year 5, and still don't know.

The new coach says he can help Carr, and I don't think they have the last four years. As far as NEED, we NEED playmakers. A guy who (has the tools) to take it for a score on any given play is a need. Willie Parker of the World Champions. And as far as the QB comparisons, the big difference is our organization still believes Carr can do it, those other guys have no support. You think they are as talented, the guys with the money don't.

disaacks3
03-29-2006, 12:45 AM
Bush will fit INTO a system quickly as another option. Vince will have to become the system and be built around( which will take alot more time.).

I fully disagree in every aspect that u wrote.:brickwall Wonderful elaboration on your "points of contention there". You disagree that building a system takes more time than fitting into one? That WAS one of his points BTW...

C'mon guys, Is this horse DEAD YET or what? BOTH players are exceptional physical specimens w/ great gifts for the game at the Collegiate level. Nobody knows for SURE that either will succeed at the next level - whether it be due to an unforseen injury, inability to adapt to the Pro game, or simply never getting the chance to Excel due to a crummy supporting cast.

It is inherently EASIER for a running-back to be 'plugged in' to an existing NFL offense than it is for a QB. Anyone who can't understand this simple concept should leave this discussion before they embarass themselves.

Does VY present a "possibility" of a mold-shattering QB? Yes! Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. A "normal" Pro-style offense would need to be redesigned to take care of VY's unique gifts. No such adjustment need be made for a running back (ANY running back).

Picking VY means giving up on CARR. Fine, you say? What about this year folks? Is Carr's confidence shaky? Sure, wouldn't yours be if you weren't given any real protection, even after your GM and coach publicly announced that it was their first priority? What a better way to show your confidence in him by using your 1st pick in the draft on not only something that has NO CHANCE of helping him succeed, but only shows a complete about-face to the recent extension you gave him! Yep, that just sounds like a GREAT plan. :rolleyes:

Vince, in ANY Pro system isn't ready for the NFL game yet. If you're a true VY fan, and you'd rather not see him beaten down and injured his 1st season, pray he goes to a team w/ an aging vet QB on the decline where he can ease into the system. Not behind a 5th year guy (ALSO a #1 pick, for those who've forgotten), whose confidence you've just shot to he*, and in the first year of a new coaching staff.

Reggie Bush is a 'safer' pick and has no real downside, unless you think DD is going to get demoralized by someone to 'share the load' with? Yep, I'd HATE the idea of sharing the load and reducing my chance for injury. Give DD some credit. He's watched Denver too and seen the platoon system they used. Please tell me it occurs to others that DD just MIGHT imagine that Denver's former offensive coordinator (that's his new HC) might like the idea of platooning RB's too? :brickwall I really like DD too, but adding another multi-purpose weapon to this Offensive unit can only make it better. As a fan, I'm more interested in the team as a whole than how big DD's next contract will be.

TreWardTxn
03-29-2006, 12:47 AM
Young won't have the speed to avoid taking some of the same hits as Vick. Also Vick is more elusive because of his size it is one thing for a guy around six ft. to spin off a tackle and keep running. It doesn't work the same way for a 6'5'' 230 pounder. Young presents a bigger target and while that was an advantage in college it will be exploited in the NFL. I could keep breaking Young down, but for what the guy is a great athlete and he'll have growing pains in the NFL just like anybody else.
Try to break Reggie down the same way. You really can't the guy has speed everybody saying that he'll can't handle the NFL speed is tripping because he is faster than most guys in the league right now. You know what he packs the same punch as a heavier slower back because he carries the same force and being smaller that force is more compact, basically if a guy gets in his way when RB's running full speed and RB hits him it will hurt. The guy can run inside there is even a run he breaks from the inside in the highlight clip floating around. I don't get it why does everybody think he won't make it in the NFL. The guy has all the tools to be great. Yet, everybody beats the guy down for nothing. Unlike Young there is really no reason to say he won't make it. Name me one legitimate reason he won't make it. Something thats not a gut feeling or to do with the probability of injury because everybody no matter who can be injured.

First of all, Young being bigger, stronger, and longer-limbed allows him to keep smaller defenders at bay instead of having to hurl himself through the air or getting tossed around like a rag doll like Vick gets done a lot, those are the collisions that are taking the years off.
To me, that sounds a lot less like Young and more like SuperBush, who never misses a chance to go aerial; he's having fun now, but he'll either learn to press pause on that or enjoy his one and only contract...
As far as breakdowns go, somebody name me one 6 ft. scatback to be successful in this league in the last 10 years...I'm struggling. Let there be no mistake, running is as much about mentality as skill. Bush does not want to lower his shoulder and drive for more yards, he would rather juke or reverse field, so that whole point about him having greater momentum and therefore, force doesn't quite stand up. His height and upright running style leave a lot of kneecap for guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders to take advantage of, and I doubt anyone has visions of him overpowering LBs in the trenches.

Others have made statements that amount to them believing Bush is a plug and play back, as if you can just stick him in there, give him the ball 25 times and the rest will take care of itself. Not so. If you want him to be around and producing, the way he is utilized must be much more nuanced.

No one can deny that Bush will be an electric talent in the NFL early on, and will provide some great highlight material. But it is definetely meritous to question whether if on top of all the aforementioned concerns, a back who is not a proven short yardage threat should be a #1 pick in football, "a game of inches."

I think that's a decent breakdown, we'll see if you agree...

swtbound07
03-29-2006, 02:55 AM
First of all, Young being bigger, stronger, and longer-limbed allows him to keep smaller defenders at bay instead of having to hurl himself through the air or getting tossed around like a rag doll like Vick gets done a lot, those are the collisions that are taking the years off.
To me, that sounds a lot less like Young and more like SuperBush, who never misses a chance to go aerial; he's having fun now, but he'll either learn to press pause on that or enjoy his one and only contract...
As far as breakdowns go, somebody name me one 6 ft. scatback to be successful in this league in the last 10 years...I'm struggling. Let there be no mistake, running is as much about mentality as skill. Bush does not want to lower his shoulder and drive for more yards, he would rather juke or reverse field, so that whole point about him having greater momentum and therefore, force doesn't quite stand up. His height and upright running style leave a lot of kneecap for guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders to take advantage of, and I doubt anyone has visions of him overpowering LBs in the trenches.

Others have made statements that amount to them believing Bush is a plug and play back, as if you can just stick him in there, give him the ball 25 times and the rest will take care of itself. Not so. If you want him to be around and producing, the way he is utilized must be much more nuanced.

No one can deny that Bush will be an electric talent in the NFL early on, and will provide some great highlight material. But it is definetely meritous to question whether if on top of all the aforementioned concerns, a back who is not a proven short yardage threat should be a #1 pick in football, "a game of inches."

I think that's a decent breakdown, we'll see if you agree...

I surely can. Bush isnt going to amount to anything in the NFL. Defenses will contain him, and his lack of between the tackles ability will be his downfall. Electric? If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

whiskeyrbl
03-29-2006, 05:33 AM
Well I for one have no problem with Bush ripping off a 20..30...50 yard run and let DD drive it in from the one yard line.(RUNNING BACK by COMMITTEE)

Mike Kerns
03-29-2006, 07:38 AM
If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

Does this remind anyone else of when Barkley told Kenny Smith he would kiss his *** if Yao scored 20 ?

Bubbajwp
03-29-2006, 07:57 AM
Quote "Young does not read through his progressions" end Quote!

The stats dont lie 3000 + yards 26 TD's, look like he makes his reads, and he pulls down the ball and runs when no one is open. Sounds like a smart QB, but most of the people on this post prefer a QB to be like Carr who sits in the pocket never makes reads and never scrambles! Carr a given 40+ sacks per year, What a statistic!
If stats dont lie I guess this guy is the best QB in the draft
3300 yds 33 TDs
Guess his name
It isnt VY.

thunderkyss
03-29-2006, 08:41 AM
C'mon guys, Is this horse DEAD YET or what? BOTH players are exceptional physical specimens w/ great gifts for the game at the Collegiate level. Nobody knows for SURE that either will succeed at the next level - whether it be due to an unforseen injury, inability to adapt to the Pro game, or simply never getting the chance to Excel due to a crummy supporting cast.

Agreed

It is inherently EASIER for a running-back to be 'plugged in' to an existing NFL offense than it is for a QB. Anyone who can't understand this simple concept should leave this discussion before they embarass themselves.
Not really. If you've got........ say a Brad Johnson, and a Deshaun Foster. It will be just as easy to just stick either of them into your offense. But if you've got a RB that's going to change the game, or a QB that will change the game, it isn't necessarily inherently easier to install the RB. For instance, if Vince were to go to NewOrleans, where the majority of plays are from the Shotgun(with last years team, and last years coach), there is very little for Vince to adjust to. Same with Tennessee, though they didn't use the shotgun as much, it was a big part of their game. Denver is also a system, IMHO, that Vince can step right into, since they already move the Quarterback around, to help with protection. Then you've got the bad teams, with "a bunch of wholes", who will be getting new coaches, new offensive systems, and have unproven QBs......... you can't really get much worse with those teams. The QB has to learn the new system. The Offense has to learn a new system. SanFran, Detroit, Oakland, N.O. (again), Vince, I think will do just as well starting in Sept on those teams as the young QBs expected to one day take over those teams....... with the expception of possibly Brees.

Does VY present a "possibility" of a mold-shattering QB? Yes! Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. A "normal" Pro-style offense would need to be redesigned to take care of VY's unique gifts. No such adjustment need be made for a running back (ANY running back).
Ricky Williams & Ron Dayne, weren't immediately successful, becuase I think they weren't designed right for them.
Vince Young will be just as successful in a regular Pro Offense(think McNabb, Culpepper, Quincy Carter, Steve Mcnair, Steve Young) as Reggie would be in a team that uses him like they use every other running back in the league. IF you're only going to hand the ball off to Reggie, or throw him screens, he's got a decent shot at being successful. But you aren't utilizing his special talents.
You put Vince in a regular offense, and he has the same chances of being successful. He's shown that he is fairly accurate, and if you extrapolate his YPA by the extra number of attempts Lienart had, Vince actually eclipses Matt's passing yards his senior season. Just like McNabb, Culpepper, McNair, and Vick, the only adjustment that needs to be made, is in deciding when to get rid of the ball. "Normal" QBs have a clock in their heads. after so much time, they need to scrap a play, and start thinking about getting rid of the ball. The more athletic QBs clock tells them when it is time to abandon the pocket, and buy some time for your reciever.

Anybody thinking about designing an offense for Vince to run bootlegs & QB Draws all day needs to be run out of here.......... that, I agree with.

Picking VY means giving up on CARR. Fine, you say? What about this year folks? Is Carr's confidence shaky? Sure, wouldn't yours be if you weren't given any real protection, even after your GM and coach publicly announced that it was their first priority? What a better way to show your confidence in him by using your 1st pick in the draft on not only something that has NO CHANCE of helping him succeed, but only shows a complete about-face to the recent extension you gave him! Yep, that just sounds like a GREAT plan. :rolleyes:
For four years now, we've been saying our #1 priority is to protect the QB. We've done nothing different so far this year to address the problem. & one of our offensive line draft picks was picked up quickly and penciled in as a starter for another Pro Team. To me, that says the problem wasn't the players on the offensive line. If the only new starter we see come September is Flanagan, I hope some of you :homer: s, will admit that a lot of the problem wears the number 8 on his sleeve.

Vince, in ANY Pro system isn't ready for the NFL game yet. If you're a true VY fan, and you'd rather not see him beaten down and injured his 1st season, pray he goes to a team w/ an aging vet QB on the decline where he can ease into the system. Not behind a 5th year guy (ALSO a #1 pick, for those who've forgotten), whose confidence you've just shot to he*, and in the first year of a new coaching staff.
I take no responsibilty whatsoever in what has happened to David Carr. Just like I doubt many Browns fans take responsibilty for what happened to Couch, or Detroit fans take for Harrington, or SanDiego fans for Leaf.
But I also wouldn't start any QB his first year. not even Lienart, if I've got an $8mil takling dummy itching to get on the field and prove he's worth the cash.
I think all QBs should be eased into the game. & Because I like David Carr, he'll get the first 8 starts, no questions asked, no matter who I draft... Vince, Cutler, Omar, McNeil, Brady......... whoever.

But... Vince(or whoever I draft...... or Rosenfels/Ragone) will work the sidelines with me, if I were coach. I'll call the play, he'll tell me what he would expect, what keys we are looking for in the defense. he tells me when he identifies them, and what those keys should mean to our play. On defense, he & Carr would go over pictures brought down from the booth, with my QB coach... they'll both listen to what he sees, and what adjustments need to be made, if there are any tells by any of the players, etc.... When we go back on offense, Vince(or whoever) we'll come back to me, and demonstrate that he understood everything the QB coach went over.

Reggie Bush is a 'safer' pick and has no real downside, unless you think DD is going to get demoralized by someone to 'share the load' with? Yep, I'd HATE the idea of sharing the load and reducing my chance for injury. Give DD some credit. He's watched Denver too and seen the platoon system they used. Please tell me it occurs to others that DD just MIGHT imagine that Denver's former offensive coordinator (that's his new HC) might like the idea of platooning RB's too? :brickwall I really like DD too, but adding another multi-purpose weapon to this Offensive unit can only make it better. As a fan, I'm more interested in the team as a whole than how big DD's next contract will be.

DD's had people here to share the load with him. They just weren't being used that way. I also don't believe it's a matter of DD not being able to carry the load. get him in Denver's running system, get him into the secondary untouched, and he'll start 16 games, with at least 25 carries.

cuppacoffee
03-29-2006, 09:27 AM
I surely can. Bush isnt going to amount to anything in the NFL. Defenses will contain him, and his lack of between the tackles ability will be his downfall. Electric? If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat.

......:rofl: ....... :rofl:

Better start boiling the water and stock up on salt and pepper.

Bush will make a lot of people eat some crow, yours' will come with a side order of battle red hat.


:coffee:

bad
03-29-2006, 09:44 AM
I surely can. Bush isnt going to amount to anything in the NFL. Defenses will contain him, and his lack of between the tackles ability will be his downfall. Electric? If he gets a 100 yards rushing in one game, i'll eat my battle red hat. Well at least you'll have some fiber in your diet.

This just amazes me. Here you have the highest rated talent coming out of college since most NFL people can remember, the pick is yours and not only do many of you NOT want the pick, you come up with the most ridiculous rationalizations as to why he's unfit for the NFL.

News flash: Reggie runs between the tackles just fine. It just so happens that he can hit the corner before anyone else, has the vision to see the opening and the speed to get around it, so that's where he goes... and if you consider what UT did to him to be containment then you need to ease off the Kool-Aid.

An average Bush touchdown last year traveled over 30 yards and I've heard people here call him "too slow".

I've heard Bush called "too small" but look at the great running backs throughout history. He's closer to prototype than you think.

I for one can't wait to see this Texans offense get very scary for opposing defenses.

chuckm
03-29-2006, 09:48 AM
Well at least you'll have some fiber in your diet.

This just amazes me. Here you have the highest rated talent coming out of college since most NFL people can remember, the pick is yours and not only do many of you NOT want the pick, you come up with the most ridiculous rationalizations as to why he's unfit for the NFL.

News flash: Reggie runs between the tackles just fine. It just so happens that he can hit the corner before anyone else, has the vision to see the opening and the speed to get around it, so that's where he goes... and if you consider what UT did to him to be containment then you need to ease off the Kool-Aid.

An average Bush touchdown last year traveled over 30 yards and I've heard people here call him "too slow".

I've heard Bush called "too small" but look at the great running backs throughout history. He's closer to prototype than you think.

I for one can't wait to see this Texans offense get very scary for opposing defenses.


well stated ....

Mike Kerns
03-29-2006, 10:04 AM
Just thought this quote from Jacksonville's Jack Del Rio was pretty funny:

Asked if he was planning to visit his alma mater to watch pro day at USC, where the likely No. 1 pick will be working out for the Houston Texans and other teams, Del Rio shook his head.

"No. I think I'll get to see Reggie Bush plenty this year," he smiled.



They are already fearing The Reggie :redtowel:

Hawg
03-29-2006, 10:46 AM
Just thought this quote from Jacksonville's Jack Del Rio was pretty funny:

Asked if he was planning to visit his alma mater to watch pro day at USC, where the likely No. 1 pick will be working out for the Houston Texans and other teams, Del Rio shook his head.

"No. I think I'll get to see Reggie Bush plenty this year," he smiled.



They are already fearing The Reggie :redtowel:

I love it. I cant wait to see their faces when Reggie runs all over them with the steel blue on. Its gonna be great!

dat_boy_yec
03-29-2006, 04:58 PM
First of all, Young being bigger, stronger, and longer-limbed allows him to keep smaller defenders at bay instead of having to hurl himself through the air or getting tossed around like a rag doll like Vick gets done a lot, those are the collisions that are taking the years off.
To me, that sounds a lot less like Young and more like SuperBush, who never misses a chance to go aerial; he's having fun now, but he'll either learn to press pause on that or enjoy his one and only contract...
As far as breakdowns go, somebody name me one 6 ft. scatback to be successful in this league in the last 10 years...I'm struggling. Let there be no mistake, running is as much about mentality as skill. Bush does not want to lower his shoulder and drive for more yards, he would rather juke or reverse field, so that whole point about him having greater momentum and therefore, force doesn't quite stand up. His height and upright running style leave a lot of kneecap for guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders to take advantage of, and I doubt anyone has visions of him overpowering LBs in the trenches.

Others have made statements that amount to them believing Bush is a plug and play back, as if you can just stick him in there, give him the ball 25 times and the rest will take care of itself. Not so. If you want him to be around and producing, the way he is utilized must be much more nuanced.

No one can deny that Bush will be an electric talent in the NFL early on, and will provide some great highlight material. But it is definetely meritous to question whether if on top of all the aforementioned concerns, a back who is not a proven short yardage threat should be a #1 pick in football, "a game of inches."

I think that's a decent breakdown, we'll see if you agree...

Keep smaller defenders at bay. What are you talking about. You really think Young is going to stiff arm all the smaller defenders that come at him. Speaking of which you think he'll get past the bigger defenders to get to the smaller defenders area. I hate to tell you this but DE's and LB's in the NFL aren't small by any means. Are you trying to say Young is just as elusive and fast as Bush. Get off it man Young's won't be as successful using his legs at the next level because he isn't blazing fast. A lot of LB's and DE's will be able to negate that speed. Oh and as far as scat backs. What about Clinton portis. He averaged 5.5 yds. when he was with Denver and Dunn who totaled close to 1500 yds. last season. Barber, Williams. Oh and one more thing how many times did you see Sanders lower his shoulders. I don't remember him doing so alot. If you can burn somebody for crazy yds. than why run into him and hinder yourself.

Caesar
03-29-2006, 06:17 PM
I love it. I cant wait to see their faces when Reggie runs all over them with the steel blue on. Its gonna be great!
And how exactly is he going to do this without an offensive line?

dat_boy_yec
03-29-2006, 06:55 PM
And how exactly is he going to do this without an offensive line?

Who says he won't have an offensive line.

AJExplosion80
03-29-2006, 07:15 PM
I am thinking that we could really use another back. Doesn't necessarily have to be Bush but someone who can spell DD and Morency because we all know DD needs a good back to relieve him and he is kind of injury prone so we could use another back especially with Kubiak's system with the cutbacks and the amount of times he likes to run. I think a tandem of DD, Morency, and Bush would be good and you can lineup Bush and DD in the backfield together and split Reggie out that's what I enjoy. Also what I like about Kubiak's system is all the rollouts that will hopefully give David a little bit more time than he has had as long as we can get another OL in free agency or trade

Caesar
03-29-2006, 10:56 PM
Who says he won't have an offensive line.
Not saying he won't, I'm just saying that the Texans don't seem to be working on acquiring any decent OL players.... again.

They could trade the pick to possibly pick up a quality veteran and then draft Brick. But no, they're most likely going to take ANOTHER running back.

El Amigo Invisible
03-29-2006, 11:01 PM
How long will it take D ' Brick to develope?

dat_boy_yec
03-29-2006, 11:03 PM
Not saying he won't, I'm just saying that the Texans don't seem to be working on acquiring any decent OL players.... again.

They could trade the pick to possibly pick up a quality veteran and then draft Brick. But no, they're most likely going to take ANOTHER running back.

They acquired Flannagan which is a good pickup. As it stands right now we have 9 linemen on the roster so I would imagine if they were going to draft some in the later rds. that would fill our needs. There are still going to be quality linemen available in the 3rd rd. so I wouldn't be to worried about that.

dat_boy_yec
03-29-2006, 11:04 PM
How long will it take D ' Brick to develope?

Depends he could be a solid RT by mid-season and competing for the LT spot after 1 season.

El Amigo Invisible
03-29-2006, 11:07 PM
Depends he could be a solid RT by mid-season and competing for the LT spot after 1 season.
It might take two years to get him up to speed.:confused: Then what ? Just like TJ . Oh how I hate who we have drafted the past few years.

dat_boy_yec
03-29-2006, 11:12 PM
It might take two years to get him up to speed.:confused: Then what ? Just like TJ . Oh how I hate who we have drafted the past few years.

Actually Johnson should have been an immediate contributer, but the previous staff was trying to convert him and he was competing with so many other guys. I don't know what they were thinking on that one. He should be a big improvement this yr. though.

El Amigo Invisible
03-29-2006, 11:15 PM
Actually Johnson should have been an immediate contributer, but the previous staff was trying to convert him and he was competing with so many other guys. I don't know what they were thinking on that one. He should be a big improvement this yr. though.
Thank You Friend . That makes me have alittle bit of hope . But the guys covering the draft thought he would be a great second round pick up (TJ). Poor TJ . I love you because you are a Texan!:brickwall I do not hate you at all.

Caesar
03-30-2006, 08:08 PM
Regardless of how long it took D'Brick to develop to his full potential, he would still be better than all but 1-2 of the guys we have now.