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Tale Gator
03-24-2006, 08:02 PM
If Bush fails to run a sub 4.5 40-dash at his pro will it change his draft position?

Personally, I think that Reggie will run in the low 4.4's --but-- seeing as some were surprised by VY's and some others slower (or faster) times how do you think it will effect the decisions of those making the big call?

A speedier than expected sprint in the 40 from a prospect can certainly bump them up -- could a slower than expected run notch the Heisman Trophy winner out of the number one spot...

Vinny
03-24-2006, 08:06 PM
I think I can safely say that Bush will not run a 4.5 + 40.

The Dude Abides
03-24-2006, 08:08 PM
It's not like Bush is that athletic. I'm expecting something around the 4.8-4.9 range. :cool:

utahmark
03-24-2006, 08:15 PM
It's not like Bush is that athletic. I'm expecting something around the 4.8-4.9 range. :cool:

your joking im sure?

bklatch
03-24-2006, 08:18 PM
I think he will surely run a 3.2 he is superman....

swtbound07
03-24-2006, 08:18 PM
depends...if the texas defense is on the track he wont MAKE it 40 yards

Dunta_23
03-24-2006, 08:52 PM
depends...if the texas defense is on the track he wont MAKE it 40 yards

Exactly, at 32 yards, he'll jump and land 2-3 yards after the finish line :redtowel:

Kaiser Toro
03-24-2006, 08:59 PM
There is no way that Bush cannot spend 4 billion in 4.5 seconds.

thunderkyss
03-24-2006, 09:07 PM
I said no, because we've already convinced ourselves he's a Texan......

Bubbajwp
03-24-2006, 09:18 PM
We already know what he can do on the field so no it wouldnt matter to me.

tulexan
03-24-2006, 09:19 PM
Reggie can walk 40 yards in 4.5 seconds

Nighthawk
03-24-2006, 09:50 PM
Oh, please--you guys are so transparent. If he's slower that 4.35 we got big trouble.

dirty steve
03-24-2006, 09:53 PM
Oh, please--you guys are so transparent. If he's slower that 4.35 we got big trouble.

yeah i know--that 4.37 would really turn alot of teams off.

Vinny
03-24-2006, 09:55 PM
We already know what he can do on the field so no it wouldnt matter to me.
we already know what he can do on a College field. Last year JJ Arrington had just as impressive YPC, and he was the super flop of the draft for the Cards. Same skillset. There are no sure things out there.

tulexan
03-24-2006, 10:02 PM
JJ averaged 7 ypc, Reggie averaged ~9 ypc

Big difference

Vinny
03-24-2006, 10:11 PM
JJ averaged 7 ypc, Reggie averaged ~9 ypc

Big differenceno it's not a big difference. They both have the exact same skillset and the exact same questions about their abilities to run inside. Bush had nearly 100 less carries and was on a team with the best offensive talent in decades. Arrington didn't have Lendale White, and several NFL prospects taking the attention away form him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Rushing&sort=10&conference=I-A_PAC10&year=2004
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Rushing&conference=I-A_PAC10&year=2005

HJam72
03-24-2006, 10:17 PM
In answer to the original question, I think it would definitely change his status, even though it shouldn't. For instance, I made fun of Young some about the Wonderlic score(s) and it did hurt him a lot I think, but I don't think his IQ has anything at all to do with his ability to play QB. If it did, he would've sucked at the college level. All this pre-draft stuff seems over-hyped to me and looking back at what they did in college (and who they played with and against) SHOULD carry much more weight.

Looking at your choices, I can't answer. He will be an elite player (if he can stay healthy and run descent between the tackles some), but I think a slower than expected time would hurt his pre-draft status. We'll probably take him anyway though.

Which freaking side am I on anyway? :) :idonno:

tulexan
03-24-2006, 10:19 PM
I've seen both play many games and Reggie is much better. JJ isn't nearly as explosive as Reggie.

Bubbajwp
03-24-2006, 10:21 PM
we already know what he can do on a College field. Last year JJ Arrington had just as impressive YPC, and he was the super flop of the draft for the Cards. Same skillset. There are no sure things out there.
I didnt realy mean he was a sure thing. I meant more we know he is quick and has good speed whether it be timed speed or not.

Tale Gator
03-24-2006, 10:29 PM
In answer to the original question, I think it would definitely change his status, even though it shouldn't. For instance, I made fun of Young some about the Wonderlic score(s) and it did hurt him a lot I think, but I don't think his IQ has anything at all to do with his ability to play QB. If it did, he would've sucked at the college level. All this pre-draft stuff seems over-hyped to me and looking back at what they did in college (and who they played with and against) SHOULD carry much more weight.

Looking at your choices, I can't answer. He will be an elite player (if he can stay healthy and run descent between the tackles some), but I think a slower than expected time would hurt his pre-draft status. We'll probably take him anyway though.

Which freaking side am I on anyway? :) :idonno:

Thanks, great post.

:)

texasguy346
03-24-2006, 10:51 PM
No it won't effect his draft status anymore than VY's 40 time will effect his draft status. The game tape on both guys have more weight than any 40 time or Wonderlic score. The scouts know what they can do long before they ever line up to run that 40 yd track.

On a side note I'd say that JJ Arrington didn't demonstrate near the vision that Bush did in college, and I think that's his biggest problem in the NFL (that and being part of the Arizona Cardinals). It seems like guys like Kevin Jones had the same problem too.

jerek
03-25-2006, 12:33 AM
Bush will run in the low to mid 4.3s, possibly crack into the 4.2s.

Dunta_23
03-25-2006, 12:49 AM
Im hoping he is high 4.2's....would love to see him go low 4.2's just to add some hype but I think he'll be mid 4.3's

Napa Auto Parts
03-25-2006, 01:10 AM
with the extra weight bush has put on it would not surprise me if he ran a 4.5
unless he has already ajusted to his weight. but i wonder what if he had a bad 40 i guess we could take mario williams.

The Dude Abides
03-25-2006, 01:27 AM
your joking im sure?

Yes, yes I am

Tejaspro
03-25-2006, 01:42 AM
It's not like Bush is that athletic. I'm expecting something around the 4.8-4.9 range. :cool:

Dude.

How much did you see Bush play this last season? I live in Southern California and saw him play probably as much as you saw Vince Young play. And I can safely say, he is a very special player. I'm not saying that VY isn't special, but Bush is ready for the NFL right now. I believe VY is a few years away, especially for the position he plays. Bush has been a can't miss player since he was playing high school ball in San Diego. Even then, people were saying he was going to be a star. And, by the way.... Bush IS that athletic.
Do you think EVERYONE is wrong? You might expect something around the 4.8 - 4.9 range.... just pass me what you're smokin' Dude. And you are right about one thing...."The Dude Abides".:redtowel:

Nighthawk
03-25-2006, 03:21 AM
What was DD's 40, anybody? Morency's?

yourfavoritetexan42
03-25-2006, 03:47 AM
we already know what he can do on a College field. Last year JJ Arrington had just as impressive YPC, and he was the super flop of the draft for the Cards. Same skillset. There are no sure things out there.



In that case.

We Should avoid Vince Young, he kind of reminds me of Andre Ware... same style...he is going to be a bust. And AJ Hawk..that build reminds me a little of the Boz's...bust written all over it.


Reggie Bush could be compared to JJ Arrington, or compared to LT. You can't just assume he will be a "clone" of JJ.

texasguy346
03-25-2006, 04:40 AM
What was DD's 40, anybody? Morency's?

All it takes is a simple google search.

Morrency's 40 times were 4.66 & 4.67. He didn't run at the combine due to a hamstring injury.
link 1 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/rb)

As for DD his 40 time was 4.63 at the combine & 4.56 at his pro day.
link 2 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/davis_domanick)

Maddict5
03-25-2006, 06:02 AM
In that case.

We Should avoid Vince Young, he kind of reminds me of Andre Ware... same style...he is going to be a bust. And AJ Hawk..that build reminds me a little of the Boz's...bust written all over it.


Reggie Bush could be compared to JJ Arrington, or compared to LT. You can't just assume he will be a "clone" of JJ.

really??? i think VY reminds me more of Kordell Stewart, D'brick reminds me of Mike Williams, and Mario reminds me of Courtney Brown...hey, basically same skill set...:rolleyes: :homer:

YoungTexanFan
03-25-2006, 08:44 AM
Dude.

How much did you see Bush play this last season? I live in Southern California and saw him play probably as much as you saw Vince Young play. And I can safely say, he is a very special player. I'm not saying that VY isn't special, but Bush is ready for the NFL right now. I believe VY is a few years away, especially for the position he plays. Bush has been a can't miss player since he was playing high school ball in San Diego. Even then, people were saying he was going to be a star. And, by the way.... Bush IS that athletic.
Do you think EVERYONE is wrong? You might expect something around the 4.8 - 4.9 range.... just pass me what you're smokin' Dude. And you are right about one thing...."The Dude Abides".:redtowel:

You obviously missed his sarcasm there buddy.

:ok:

Kaiser Toro
03-25-2006, 09:09 AM
Is Bush on a track team? I see some 4.2's out there. Are we being sarcastic, exaggerating or just prognosicating?

TheOgre
03-25-2006, 09:12 AM
The only way Bush runs higher than 4.5 is if he pulls a hammy or trips over his feet and goes falling to the ground.

tsip
03-25-2006, 09:27 AM
Is Bush going to even run at his pro day?

nunusguy
03-25-2006, 09:38 AM
I'm a big Bush fan (the football player, starting to have a lot of second thoughts about the politician lately), but I "expect" him to run in the 4.3s,
and will disappointed if he fails to break 4.4.
Bush certainly has football speed, but he was also an accomplished sprinter at the scholastic level, but don't think he has continued to compete after entering college. He is not and never has been rated a "world class" sprinter as some have said, but was one of the 2 or 3 best sprinters in the state of CA while he was in HS there
The attached link is from the Cal state track championships in 2002, when Bush was a HS jurnior. As an aside the the story, the guy who won the 100 & 200 meters that year was, according to this story, the first white sprinter to do that in 40 years. Surprising bit of info for ultra poly correct Cal.
Anyway, Bush ran a 10.42 in the prelims but not that fast when he finished third in the finals.
I dunno.....apparently Bush didn't compete in Track his senior year in HS, as I've not found any documentation on his HS track career after his jurnior year.
http://www.dyestat.com/state/ca/2out/statemeet/r-10.htm

Kaiser Toro
03-25-2006, 09:43 AM
I'm a big Bush fan (the football player, starting to have a lot of second thoughts about the politician lately), but I "expect" him to run in the 4.3s,
and will disappointed if he fails to break 4.4.
Bush certainly has football speed, but he was also an accomplished sprinter at the scholastic level, but don't think he has continued to compete after entering college. He is not and never has been rated a "world class" sprinter as some have said, but was one of the 2 or 3 best sprinters in the state of CA while he was in HS there
The attached link is from the Cal state track championships in 2002, when Bush was a HS jurnior. As an aside the the story, the guy who won the 100 & 200 meters that year was, according to this story, the first white sprinter to do that in 40 years. Surprising bit of info for ultra poly correct Cal.
Anyway, Bush ran a 10.42 in the prelims but not that fast when he finished third in the finals.
I dunno.....apparently Bush didn't compete in Track his senior year in HS, as I've not found any documentation on his HS track career after his jurnior year.
http://www.dyestat.com/state/ca/2out/statemeet/r-10.htm

Thank you. If I were a Bush fan I would set expectations more in line with nunusguy on what his 40 time will look like.

Texas
03-25-2006, 09:57 AM
Wow whoever said 4.7/4.8 your out of your mind. I think maybe somewhere around 4.38...I guess we will see!

Lucky
03-25-2006, 10:01 AM
Anyway, Bush ran a 10.42 in the prelims but not that fast when he finished third in the finals.
Bush was running against the wind in the finals. Which makes me ask, why don't these pro day 40 times include the wind speed?

Also, Maurice Drew ran a 10.8 in the prelims. And I thought WRs had all the speed.

HeroTime
03-25-2006, 10:12 AM
Bush has a 4.28 40 time already on his resume.

Texan in Japan
03-25-2006, 10:29 AM
Bush has a 4.28 40 time already on his resume.

That's what a Sporting News article had him at last year. RB wants to be 1st pick, I'd bet he's been training like a mad man. I'm looking for 4.27-4.33 range at about 208.

PapaL
03-25-2006, 10:31 AM
So who remembers Terrell Suggs? Great college DE/LB. Was a "speed guy" in college. When he ran a slow 40 (4.63), every said he couldnt play in the Pros like he did in college. Drafted #10 overall, 30 sacks and 3 years later I'm sure someone in the top 10 would take him him. Or how about Anquan Boldin? Another "slow" player he has set the league on fire. Some guys flat out play faster then they run.

nunusguy
03-25-2006, 10:45 AM
Bush has a 4.28 40 time already on his resume.
It certainly wouldn't surprise me to see Reggie knock out a sub 4.3, that would be icing on the cake. But I think we all have every right to expect "atleast" one time in the 4.3s. Raw speed is part of his array of athletic talents, and this is one position and he is "the" guy at that position
where 40 times are very relavant and meaningful.

Tale Gator
03-25-2006, 10:51 AM
Let me add a 'bonus' question to the discussion which shouldn't effect the poll:

If Reggie blasts through the 4.3 barrier and runs in the 4.2's -- will it sway some VY supporters or trade downers over to the Bush camp?

[Sub 4.3 in the 40 being rarified world-class speed]

tulexan
03-25-2006, 11:48 AM
He is a track guy who was the third fastest guy in California. A time around 4.3 wouldn't surprise me.

MorKnolle
03-25-2006, 12:00 PM
with the extra weight bush has put on it would not surprise me if he ran a 4.5
unless he has already ajusted to his weight. but i wonder what if he had a bad 40 i guess we could take mario williams.

What extra weight? At the Combine he weighed in at 201 lbs. If he was wanting to impress people by gaining weight and looking bigger he should have done that at the Combine, then lost it back again for his pro day so he could run faster, just like D'Brickashaw Ferguson did. If he didn't add that weight for his Combine weigh-in when he knew he wasn't working out, he isn't going to add a bunch of weight now for his pro day. I don't expect him to weigh more than the 200 to maybe 202 range.

Bush has a 4.28 40 time already on his resume.

Bush has supposedly run a 4.28 at some point. It wouldn't surprise me if he has seeing how fast he is on the field, but I expect him anywhere between 4.32 and 4.38 at his pro day, partially depending on what type of surface he's running on too.

uhcougar08
03-25-2006, 12:18 PM
depends...if the texas defense is on the track he wont MAKE it 40 yards

You need help, you hater. I bet you do not even know what a football is, do you?

uhcougar08
03-25-2006, 12:19 PM
What extra weight? At the Combine he weighed in at 201 lbs. If he was wanting to impress people by gaining weight and looking bigger he should have done that at the Combine, then lost it back again for his pro day so he could run faster, just like D'Brickashaw Ferguson did. If he didn't add that weight for his Combine weigh-in when he knew he wasn't working out, he isn't going to add a bunch of weight now for his pro day. I don't expect him to weigh more than the 200 to maybe 202 range.



Bush has supposedly run a 4.28 at some point. It wouldn't surprise me if he has seeing how fast he is on the field, but I expect him anywhere between 4.32 and 4.38 at his pro day, partially depending on what type of surface he's running on too.

He said he wanted to weigh in the 210-215 range in his interview at he combine.

Kaiser Toro
03-25-2006, 12:40 PM
Let me add a 'bonus' question to the discussion which shouldn't effect the poll:

If Reggie blasts through the 4.3 barrier and runs in the 4.2's -- will it sway some VY supporters or trade downers over to the Bush camp?

[Sub 4.3 in the 40 being rarified world-class speed]

Not at all. Reggie and VY are football fast. I do not need a clock to tell me so.

Dr. Toro
03-25-2006, 01:44 PM
no it's not a big difference. They both have the exact same skillset and the exact same questions about their abilities to run inside. Bush had nearly 100 less carries and was on a team with the best offensive talent in decades. Arrington didn't have Lendale White, and several NFL prospects taking the attention away form him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Rushing&sort=10&conference=I-A_PAC10&year=2004
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Rushing&conference=I-A_PAC10&year=2005

I didn't know that comparison was as close as it was. People seriously underestimate how good that offensive unit was, which I think deserves some consideration.

It's blasphemy to question Reggie's athleticism, but I'd also be interested to see how he can cut/maneuver in the backfield/through the line (not talking about counter plays). He was always getting a pretty healthy push from that line and had the luxury/ability of getting into space pretty consistently. I'd like to see some of the patience and subtle moves that Edge, Priest Holmes, DD and Warrick Dunn have made a living off of. Perhaps Bush compares favorably to LT, who is fantastic in space, but is good in tight spaces too. No matter how uniquely you utilize him, if he can't work those tight places, he might not be worth the #1 pick... you can't always get him to the edge.

Scouts Inc. could give him a grade of 101, but it's tough to give him lock status given some of those concerns. All that being said, don't be shocked to see him do 15-20+ reps on the bench and elicit numerous ("I told you he could run inside" posts).

Please_Evolve
03-25-2006, 01:46 PM
It's kind of like working out your biceps...sure it looks great but it's not where all the real work is done.

I don't see all the big deal over 40 times except i guess for a wideout. Even then it's not going to matter if you're a guy that's going over the middle. What was Jerry Rice's 40 time? Tim Brown? et al? Game speed is so different then 40 track times guys. Really it's an inflated stat.

In the running back spot it's rare you're going to get a straight 40 yeard sprint. Espescially if you're running through the tackles...or got a line that can really open up holes. What matter is elusiveness, quick thinking, instinct, vision and toughness. While i am not sure on the last with Reggie the others he seems to have those in hand.

I'm not a big Reggie fan and i'm in the trade down camp. I think if we weren't asking a king's ransom to trade down we would get it. I hope the FO coems around closer to draft day. If not and we take bush...I bet Kubes could just eat up opposing D's with our projected line up and a better O line.

Btw go Texans.

Maddict5
03-25-2006, 07:43 PM
The only way Bush runs higher than 4.5 is if he pulls a hammy or trips over his feet and goes falling to the ground.

or Vince Young just 'happens' to be walking across the track and steps in front of reggie as he is running:spy:

Daonly
03-25-2006, 08:05 PM
Im going to USC next Sunday Early in the morning to snoop around hopefully they have blechers or something.. look through a fence... cuz im hoping to catch Reggie Bush and the rest of them doing the 40...

bad
03-25-2006, 09:12 PM
If Bush fails to run a sub 4.5 40-dash at his pro will it change his draft position? It would change my position but I can't see that happening. One of his attributes is his ability to get to full speed in two steps, or so says this guy:

Dan Weber, Riverside Press-Telegram:
"Bush awes his teammates daily with his ability to get to full speed on his second step."

The 40-yard time is a bit overrated IMO when dealing with running backs, but Bush may be an exception. Look back at the average length of his touchdown runs over the course of his career (going back to Helix High) and you will see that speed kills.

He's a track guy, the 4.28 on his resume is legit and I'd be disappointed with any time not in the 4.3's or faster.

tulexan
03-25-2006, 10:24 PM
I went to ReggieBush.com and I saw nothing about him running a 4.35 40. What I did see it that he ran a 10.47 100 and a 21.03 200 when he was in high school.

bad
03-25-2006, 10:37 PM
I went to ReggieBush.com and I saw nothing about him running a 4.35 40. What I did see it that he ran a 10.47 100 and a 21.03 200 when he was in high school. HIGH SCHOOL:
"...In his career, he ran for 4,995 yards (averaging 12.0 a carry) and scored 450 points. He also competed in track at Helix, placing third in the 2002 California state 100 meters final and posting bests of 10.42 in the 100 (the fastest prep time in California in 2002 and the fastest among the nation's 2002 senior footballers) and 21.06 in the 200 meters (third fastest prep in California in 2002). He placed second in the boys' 50-meter dash in 5.85 at the 2003 Los Angeles Invitational Indoor Meet."

I wonder who came in first? Please don't say Vince Young.

tulexan
03-25-2006, 10:46 PM
I wonder who came in first? Please don't say Vince Young.


Derrick Jones 5.83
Reggie Bush 5.85

bad
03-25-2006, 10:51 PM
Derrick Jones 5.83
Reggie Bush 5.85 ...and with the first pick in the 2006 NFL Draft, the Houston Texans select:

Derrick Jones, Footnote University.

tulexan
03-25-2006, 10:55 PM
Reggie won the race in 2002 with a time of 5.87

Tejaspro
03-25-2006, 11:00 PM
After the USC pro-day, Williams from Memphis will be standing on the podium before Reggie Bush is called out.

Hey Dude, didn't yore mama ever tell you not to smoke that stuff, or at least to bring enough for everybody. No good smokin' alone. LOL:yahoo:

Tejaspro
03-25-2006, 11:02 PM
You obviously missed his sarcasm there buddy.

:ok:

Obviously. LOL:yahoo:

Lucky
03-26-2006, 12:30 AM
He placed second in the boys' 50-meter dash in 5.85 at the 2003 Los Angeles Invitational Indoor Meet."
Do the math and that converts to about a 4.28 40-yard time. That was run on a fast indoor track, though. If Bush hasn't picked up speed since he was 17, that would give Reggie a time of about 4.38 at the combine run on Field Turf. But, he's probably a little faster than he was at 17.

The two guys whose game speed I would compare to Bush were Deion Sanders and Randy Moss. I say "were" in reference to Moss because I think he's lost that top gear. The difference between Bush and these two is that Reggie's ability to change direction is an order of magnitude greater. He'll be the most feared player in the league carrying the ball in 2006. And if you're a ticket holder at Reliant, you will get to see him live!

Honoring Earl 34
03-26-2006, 09:44 AM
If we draft Bush and Mathis improves at WR , then throw in AJ you have speed on Offense thats impressive . Thats three sub 4.4 guys and maybe two sub 4.3 guys .

HeroTime
03-26-2006, 10:40 AM
Go to Reggie Bush.com he has himself at 6 foot (combine 5'10 1/2) 210 (Combine 200) and 40 4.35 ( Just a hunch after waching him get sucked up by Texas Linebackers on that play he fumble/threw the ball away, Bush is a 4.49 to 4.59 guy.) After the USC pro-day, Williams from Memphis will be standing on the podium before Reggie Bush is called out. I would be surprised to see a 4.45 by Reggie Bush. He should have a nice vertice since he loves to jump so much.He beat Huff to the endzone when Huff had the angle. Remember Huff's 40 time?

run-david-run
03-26-2006, 11:04 AM
Yeah, Huff ran a 4.37. I really think Reggie will work like hell to get a sub 4.3 40. As truly insignificant as his 40 time in April will be to how he performs on the field in September, I think that a sub 4.3 40 will equal another month of insane Reggie Bush hype on USCTV..i mean ESPN.

whiskeyrbl
03-26-2006, 01:18 PM
I really don't think the 40 times are gonna matter all that much for any of the predicted top 32, I believe the coaches and scouts will rely on film and interviews more than what someone ran their 40 in on a certain Monday or Tueday of the 3rd week in March. Anyone can have a bad day or be told not to run all out and risk injury. 3-4 years of college ball will prove more than 4-5 seconds of running a straight line.