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battlered
03-22-2006, 02:52 AM
We should draft Mario Williams w/ the 1st pick, and trade peek and, or babin for later/future picks.

I'm really stating to like Super Mario over RBush everyday.

I mean we already have DD, Wells, and Morency(which should be the spell back). 2 fullbacks, we're deep at TE and so we can draft OL, SS/FS, CB, WR in order of need after we take MarioWilliams,

a guy like bush comes around 1 in every 10 yrs.
Mario williams comes round in 1 in every 20 yrs. and we'll have the craziest front 4 and our DLine rotation will be crazy too.

eventhough i have money that DD will get injured again this season, i think w/ Kubes scheme Morency/Wells will be able to take over and thrive in it.

I just don't want either Bush or VYoung, Vernon Davis in our Division

Napa Auto Parts
03-22-2006, 03:04 AM
We should draft Mario Williams w/ the 1st pick, and trade peek and, or babin for later/future picks.

I'm really stating to like Super Mario over RBush everyday.

I mean we already have DD, Wells, and Morency(which should be the spell back). 2 fullbacks, we're deep at TE and so we can draft OL, SS/FS, CB, WR in order of need after we take MarioWilliams,

a guy like bush comes around 1 in every 10 yrs.
Mario williams comes round in 1 in every 20 yrs. and we'll have the craziest front 4 and our DLine rotation will be crazy too.

eventhough i have money that DD will get injured again this season, i think w/ Kubes scheme Morency/Wells will be able to take over and thrive in it.

I just don't want either Bush or VYoung, Vernon Davis in our Division


Actually I like Mario but players like him come out every 4 to 5 years we had a chance to get one of those talented DE but i will refuse to mention who it is just so i wont get get slammed for bashing D.Carr

thetexanator
03-22-2006, 06:22 AM
peppers came out in 02, thats not 20 years.:stirpot:

Coach C.
03-22-2006, 08:38 AM
Ok people the 10 and 20 year thing was an exaggeration, because fast backs that can catch come out often also, hell we had Caddy come out last year, and Portis came out the same year as Carr and Peppers, not to mention Westbrook a year later. Either way Mario is a good pick and the guy is a stud, but I have to say Bush is also. You read my post and know I never have been pro Bush or Young, more trade down for Mario or extra picks to land Winston. Now that Mario has shown his talents people are getting on the bandwagon. Well welcome his 6-7 295lb shoulders can support us all. Wells is not with the team and might not be brought back. If we dont take Bush look for a 4-6th round acquisition of a guy like Gerald Riggs Jr. big tough back that will play similar to Wells but run harder.

Blake
03-22-2006, 08:57 AM
3 months ago, the idea of getting Reggie made this board giddy. Now that we can select him, he is not as good as a DE from NC state, whos not as good as Peppers.

If you take anyone over Bush, it has to be Young. This franchise needs a boom player in the worst way. And Williams is not a boom player.

Coach C.
03-22-2006, 08:59 AM
Maybe you dont understand, take Peppers athleticsm and make it slightly better and put it in a 6-7 295lb body. Also, why the Hell would we take young we need a boom player a double digit sack guy is a boom player, a guy that makes offenses adjust their whole gameplan is a boom player. What are you talking about. Come on I understand the Bush aspect and yeah he is not a bad pick either, but when you look at overall ceiling Mario may have the highest of all the top 5 guys.

powerfuldragon
03-22-2006, 09:08 AM
The fact that we speculate so much on this board on who we should select with the #1 overall pick shows that beggars can indeed be choosers.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 09:16 AM
3 months ago, the idea of getting Reggie made this board giddy. Now that we can select him, he is not as good as a DE from NC state, whos not as good as Peppers.

If you take anyone over Bush, it has to be Young. This franchise needs a boom player in the worst way. And Williams is not a boom player.

I am speechless due to this post.

Runner
03-22-2006, 09:18 AM
I am speechless due to this post.

I guess I don't know what "boom player" means.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 09:21 AM
I guess I don't know what "boom player" means.

I did not understand any of it.

Seņor Stan
03-22-2006, 09:35 AM
Highly rated defensive ends are never ever ever draft busts.

Sincerely,

Andre Wadsworth

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 09:36 AM
Highly rated defensive ends are never ever ever draft busts.

Sincerely,

Andre Wadsworth

Hell's Bells son. So you are dropping Bidwell's folly on us in this debate? Well done.

Coach C.
03-22-2006, 09:41 AM
Wow an Andre Wadsworth reference. Anyone old enough to remember this pick knows it was met with such absolute scrutiny and chuckle throughout the league that coaches knew Bidwell screwed up. Wadsworth had alot of talent but he was picked higher than most thought. I would bring up number 1 overall Courney Brown maybe, that is a better bust type prospect, eventhough he did just get a long term deal from that genius up in Colorado that just suckered the Falcons out of the 15 pick. He moved up 14 spots in the first round for a low 3rd and a 4th, once again can we get him to quit coaching and come be our GM.

Bubbajwp
03-22-2006, 09:52 AM
Does anybody know what Mario Williams stats look like.

el toro
03-22-2006, 10:46 AM
Given that the coaching staff has some experience putting together a nice offense, I think you go with the 'once in a generation' RB instead of the 'once in a generation' DE.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 10:48 AM
Given that the coaching staff has some experience putting together a nice offense, I think you go with the 'once in a generation' RB instead of the 'once in a generation' DE.

Since they have experience putting together a nice offense, the two top paid players are on the offense, we have signed out starting TE and continue to peruse for new OL then it would make sense that we would go for the next once in a generation DE seeing how we passed on the last one in 2002. Besides there is a another once in a generation back somewhere in the later rounds, we are just not aware of it at the moment.

el toro
03-22-2006, 10:51 AM
Play to your strength. Not everything has to be perfected this offseason.

TheOgre
03-22-2006, 10:52 AM
First we pass on Peppers, now we are passing on Super Mario. If we don't have a pass-rush this year, we know who to blame.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 10:55 AM
Play to your strength. Not everything has to be perfected this offseason.

That is fine. I prefer we spend where needs abound, since we have already spent money on our perceived strengths.

el toro
03-22-2006, 10:59 AM
They've spent some money. Bush would take the offense from being average to something else. If Capers was still in charge I wouldn't be so confident about the coaching staff's ability to maximize Bush's value and might go with the 'trade down' camp.

yourfavoritetexan42
03-22-2006, 11:14 AM
First off our defense isn't that bad to begin with. Any defense that is on the field 90% of the game is going to give up points. Even so, if you look at the scores, many times the texans scored under 10 points... you cannot win a football game with only scoring 10 points. Bringing Mario Williams in, yes it would help our defense, but Mario Williams will get tired when he is on the field 40 minutes a game and idk how many points single handedly a Defensive End can score.

So why not draft Bush, make the most interesting and exciting offense the NFL has seen in years, and maybe instead of watching texans games and falling asleep in the 2nd quarter, fans will actually want to watch a full game. Bringing Reggie Bush in excites me, bringing in Mario Williams would give us a 5-12 season and then maybe next year we can draft an offensive tackle in our top 5 pick and make a wild card in 2009 then we start a rebuilding process...
there is no telling what reggie bush can bring.

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 11:21 AM
Does anybody know what Mario Williams stats look like.

Mario put up 62tackles, 24 tackles for loss, and 14.5 sacks, 1FF, 1blocked kick, and 1safety. He also recovered a fumble and returned a punt 8yards.

Combine stats. 6'7" 295 40-4.66 10-1.56 Vertical 40" Broad Jump-9ft 11inch Wonderlic 24

Link for stats http://gopack.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2005-2006/teamcume.html

infantrycak
03-22-2006, 11:23 AM
First off our defense isn't that bad to begin with.

The Texans were 31st in total D, 32nd in scoring D--yeah, it was that bad.

Any defense that is on the field 90% of the game is going to give up points.

The Texans' D was on the field 1 min 50 sec more than the O. Yes the O could have sustained more drives, but the D could have gotten some folks off the field as well.

Frills
03-22-2006, 11:27 AM
The O was on the field way more...they just don't keep the time on marching off the penalty yardage, or finding shovels to dig Carr out of the ground.

:sarcasm:

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 11:33 AM
Just to way in on this I have to go with Mario. I am a big Reggie Bush guy and think he is the best RB to come out since likely LT, eventhough that is selling Clinton Portis short and he has put up phenominal numbers so he is the best in the past 4yrs or so. Mario to me is better than Peppers, which makes him the best to come out well since hell I dont know, couple that with the fact that he has that Shawne Merrimen fire and a Strahan like work ethic and approach to the game. This kid has huge upside. The fact that we have a chance to land a guy that in Bush can play RB and WR and in Mario who can play anywhere in the front 7 is awesome. I just think Mario has that Freeney type of gamechanging ability. I know it would be great to watch Bush scamper back and forth and score from deep, but like someone on the board said Bush can be contained. I look at the UT game and Bush had a great game, but his big play ability was contained by UT just emphasizing to the defense to stay in their lanes thereby preventing his cutback. Without his cutback he is another good back with speed similar to Warrick Dunn. Then you look at the FSU game or any game for Mario and you see a offense that is rolling everyone to his side, constantly checking to see were he is, making adjustments just because he is on the field and you see how that disrupts an offense. Corners are fast enough to hang with Bush and he will affect our O in a way that will make us exciting to watch, but Mario will affect not just our O, but our D, our whole identity. I want a tough Identity, TEXAS TOUGH, I want Jacksonville, Tennessee, Indy, and the rest of the league to not want to see us on Sunday much like the Steelers or Ravens in their hayday.

el toro
03-22-2006, 11:49 AM
To me, you go with the guy who fits your strength. That's the way to get the most bang for your buck. Adding Bush to the offense that the coaching staff is building will ensure that his value is maximized and that at least one side of the ball is within range of becoming above average.

Getting the team into playoff contention will be a multi-year process. I think you emphasize the offense first since your coaching staff has demonstrated experience in building a great offense, you have some good pieces of raw talent, and you have such a talent like Bush available in the draft. Next offseason, the team can focus more on the D in free agency and in the draft. It's also not like they've totally ignored the D this offseason. Changing to a 4-3 and adding Weaver will be a good first step.

Yes, defense wins championships, but in general you have to have a competent offense who can put points up on the board.

Simply put, this team sucked at both last season, so go with improving the one side with the most promise with your #1 overall.

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 11:53 AM
You are one of those guys that goes to the gym and works on your chest and arms because they are the easiest to see improvement. You become stronger overall by working on your weaknesses. Our coaching staff knows offense has proven itself with lower end offensive talent and high end defensive talent because they are not as equipped on the D side. Shanahan did this, and now you want Kubiak to take someone who he can look good with, but still his D is weak. Shootouts are fun to watch, but usually the team with the best D wins.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 11:54 AM
To me, you go with the guy who fits your strength. That's the way to get the most bang for your buck. Adding Bush to the offense that the coaching staff is building will ensure that his value is maximized and that at least one side of the ball is within range of becoming above average.

Getting the team into playoff contention will be a multi-year process. I think you emphasize the offense first since your coaching staff has demonstrated experience in building a great offense, you have some good pieces of raw talent, and you have such a talent like Bush available in the draft. Next offseason, the team can focus more on the D in free agency and in the draft. It's also not like they've totally ignored the D this offseason. Changing to a 4-3 and adding Weaver will be a good first step.

Yes, defense wins championships, but in general you have to have a competent offense who can put points up on the board.

Simply put, this team sucked at both last season, so go with improving the one side with the most promise with your #1 overall.

The offense already signed its top player by extending Carr. Time to spruce up the defense as we need a safeguard against the offense crashing again. In my opinion a couple of the right acquisitions on the defense can make more of an impact on the team than on offense. I do not have the data to qualify that, just a feel thing.

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 11:58 AM
Kaiser Toro I agree with you.
Peek, Weaver, Smith, Mario backed up by Greenwood, Wong/Pierce/rookie, Orr

That is a nice front seven that I would have alot of confidence in. Not only do you get a penetrating DT in Weaver once he gains 10lbs, we have an athletic weakside rusher a stout two gap guy that can also penetrate in Smith, and a passrusher who will force doubles and all types of rotations and shorter drops. On top of that we have greenwood a solid chase down guy, a middle guy that can tackle and play the mid zone and Orr our best pass rusher last year and solid LB coming off the same edge as Mario. A TE or RB is not going to be able to handle Orr. And if you try and not double Mario QB is in trouble. Tell me Texans fans that does not look good to you.

el toro
03-22-2006, 11:59 AM
Adding Williams is not going to turn the defense around overnight, if at all. Bush + the other changes and additions will at least give up a vastly improved offense and one that has a shot to be above NFL average immediately.

If the team had only one offseason to draft and sign free agents, I could see your points, but that's not the case. If the turnaround starts with the team being a high scoring unit with an average to subpar D, that's a good start. That at least gets you off the mat and in playoff contention. Then you start devoting your cap money to sprucing up the defense.

tulexan
03-22-2006, 12:00 PM
With UT containing Bush he still got 170 yards and a touchdown. And when teams have to focus on one player, you can make them a decoy and allow for other players to kill you. Much like what LenDale White and Dwayne Jarrett did to UT. This is something that Casserly has also talked about when talking about Bush which is why he compared him to Randy Moss that one time. When you can make defenses hesitate or commit to defending a gamebreaker, you can open up the field for the rest of the team.

wags
03-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Kaiser Toro I agree with you.
Peek, Weaver, Smith, Mario backed up by Greenwood, Wong/Pierce/rookie, Orr


Travis Johnson?

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Name a team that went from terrible to having a good offense under a new regime and made the playoffs, because I can name several that went to a good defense and average offense that did it. Just look last year at Chicago. Come on Toro you have to have a better argument than that. Tulexan I see were you are coming from, but Lendale White and Jarrett produced all year and would be or are top prospects. It is not like Bush took the focus from them so Nate Burleson can get 1000 it is more like Bush took the focus so Moss or Larry Johnson could go for a big game. Ok Jarret is not as good as Moss how about 04 Javon Walker. Wags to me TJ is just not that good.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2006, 12:06 PM
With UT containing Bush he still got 170 yards and a touchdown. And when teams have to focus on one player, you can make them a decoy and allow for other players to kill you. Much like what LenDale White and Dwayne Jarrett did to UT. This is something that Casserly has also talked about when talking about Bush which is why he compared him to Randy Moss that one time. When you can make defenses hesitate or commit to defending a gamebreaker, you can open up the field for the rest of the team.

Bush and Williams to me are the obvious picks for us at #1. If we trade down to the 3-9 range then Dbrick, Hawk and Huff come into play. These five players fill a need for us at this moment in time. It is simply about value. If we sign a #2 WR then in my opinion Bush's value to the Texans becomes lessened. If we do not then I think Bush has similar value to us as Williams.

el toro
03-22-2006, 12:06 PM
Did Indy get to where they were prior to last season due to their D? How about the Rams?

Rome doesn't have to be built in a day.

BeReal
03-22-2006, 12:10 PM
Everyone has their own idea of how to build a team, period. There is no "right" way to build a team, but there are plenty of wrong ways. Whether it's Bush or Williams, there is no wrong choice, but it will show what direction the Texans will be heading.

I personally would choose Bush, he's been the consensus #1 pick. William's stock has only risen to this point due to post season and combine hype. I'm not saying he won't be great, but at this point he seems a little over-hyped IMO.

tulexan
03-22-2006, 12:10 PM
How about the Rams? They went from 4-12 to 13-3 under Vermeil and with the acquisition of Marshall Faulk.

kingh99
03-22-2006, 12:15 PM
my opinion:

the bush pick is in the bank. they don't make the recent moves they made if they didn't know they had a first rate playmaker coming. the texans control their destiny so it's not changing unless someone else offers a playmaker and picks for the pick. They didn't pick up role players like the TE, FB and WR to be playmakers.

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 12:20 PM
Be Real you are right other than we disagree on the overhype of William's stock. He has produced for 3 seasons at NCST. If he is overhyped so is Bush, who prior to a couple of games in 04 was a glorified scat back and kic returner. Like I said I am a Bush guy, but I just think Defense is the best way to go as far as the other two Tulexan and El Toro. Rams had a good defense that year just check it out and you will see that, and Indy built that offense overtime like you said. That is why the last 3yrs they have gone mainly defense. Titans use to be the class of this division if you remember, Indi had to get Wayne, OL, and Edge before they became a contender That took alot of years, so you guys are saying we need to start now. I have watched to many teams win hardware due to defense and defense sets tones, offense is great to watch, but I want a tone setting team that is feared and respected for toughness not finesse.

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 12:21 PM
my opinion:

the bush pick is in the bank. they don't make the recent moves they made if they didn't know they had a first rate playmaker coming. the texans control their destiny so it's not changing unless someone else offers a playmaker and picks for the pick. They didn't pick up role players like the TE, FB and WR to be playmakers.


This I completely agree on. Bush is the Pick. I do not doubt that at all, but that does not facilitate discussion about other possible people that could help our team.

el toro
03-22-2006, 12:28 PM
In my mind, the only thing that would keep you from going with Bush is if someone offered you something stupid for the #1, something which would leave you with a top 5 pick plus multiple picks in the top 3 rounds and a good player. At present that does not seem to be in the offing.

Trapped
03-22-2006, 02:30 PM
Mario Williams measurables is off the charts, but his lack of motivation on the feild is preventing him from the number 1 pick. Comparing him to Peppers, his body control and movement are not as fluid as Peppers. Peppers is a way better "dancer". His lack of motivation for football sometimes scare me.

Coming out of College, Bush's football instincts and moves are off the charts compared to any running back coming out of college the past 10 years. Bush on the other hand, i see the fire in his eyes he want to be the best ever.

Im just afraid wit mario is that if we lose alot, he will lose motivation and not play hard. I just think Bush just has more fire in him to achieve greatness. Something u can't judge wit measurables.

Coach C.
03-22-2006, 02:50 PM
Do you have any goals that you hope to reach your rookie season, like sacks, etc.?
-- Tim, Kenosha, Wis.

I have to set my goals high. Hopefully break all the records rookies have set on the defensive line, go to the Pro Bowl and be Rookie of the Year.

In his Combine interview which can also be found on NFL.com he states he watches film all the time, because when it is said and done he wants to be the best that ever played the position. He then recanted and said he wants to be one of the best to ever play the game. That is desire and drive.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9312648

El Amigo Invisible
03-22-2006, 04:44 PM
Take Mario over Bush !

Eyeguy
03-22-2006, 04:56 PM
Sorry, The cards are already played.

Reggie Bush will be a Houston Texan.

chuckm
03-22-2006, 05:26 PM
I'd have no problem with picking Williams, with the proviso that we trade down a bit to do it

beerlover
03-22-2006, 05:54 PM
has anyone on this board actually watched Mario play a football game :cool:

I feel out to pasture :pigfly: on this prospect all I read about are his measureables. did he play in a big time conference against top flight competition? not exactly. to me it would be a stretch at best to take him first little lone pass on Reggie Bush and trade down to take him. I want a sure thing with the Texans #1 pick, Bush fills the bill. in a trade down to a team willing to give us value in return it would almost certainly be a team out of the top 5 & in that case I would have to at least get Hawk to be a happy camper plus a butt load of present & future picks IMO......

tulexan
03-22-2006, 06:02 PM
I saw 1 or 2 games of Mario this season. I remember I wasn't too impressed with him in the VTech game but that was the first game of the season.

El Amigo Invisible
03-22-2006, 06:07 PM
Draft Vince!

Bubbajwp
03-22-2006, 06:59 PM
Draft Vince!
GO AWAY!

Blake
03-22-2006, 07:40 PM
GO AWAY!

I'll take Vince over Williams anyday. But thats just one mans opinion right. ;)

dat_boy_yec
03-22-2006, 07:45 PM
We should draft Mario Williams w/ the 1st pick, and trade peek and, or babin for later/future picks.

I'm really stating to like Super Mario over RBush everyday.

I mean we already have DD, Wells, and Morency(which should be the spell back). 2 fullbacks, we're deep at TE and so we can draft OL, SS/FS, CB, WR in order of need after we take MarioWilliams,

a guy like bush comes around 1 in every 10 yrs.
Mario williams comes round in 1 in every 20 yrs. and we'll have the craziest front 4 and our DLine rotation will be crazy too.

eventhough i have money that DD will get injured again this season, i think w/ Kubes scheme Morency/Wells will be able to take over and thrive in it.

I just don't want either Bush or VYoung, Vernon Davis in our Division

Wells hasn't been re-signed yet and I don't see that happening. About Mario coming around every 20 yrs. I could've sworn Peppers has been out for only 4 yrs.

Bubbajwp
03-22-2006, 07:45 PM
I'll take Vince over Williams anyday. But thats just one mans opinion right. ;)
I dont have a problem with VY at all. He is one of my favorite players in this draft im just sick of hearing about him.

nunusguy
03-22-2006, 07:51 PM
Not that need should be that big of a part of the equation of picking the # 1
overall, but even if it were it's now a moot issue since we picked up Weaver in FA to play strong side DE in our 4-3. So right now, IMO Bush would represent a bigger upgrade over DD than Williams would of Weaver, and straight up Bush is a better prospect than Williams.

PokerStar
03-22-2006, 10:05 PM
has anyone on this board actually watched Mario play a football game :cool:

I feel out to pasture :pigfly: on this prospect all I read about are his measureables. did he play in a big time conference against top flight competition? not exactly. to me it would be a stretch at best to take him first little lone pass on Reggie Bush and trade down to take him. I want a sure thing with the Texans #1 pick, Bush fills the bill. in a trade down to a team willing to give us value in return it would almost certainly be a team out of the top 5 & in that case I would have to at least get Hawk to be a happy camper plus a butt load of present & future picks IMO......

Actually Mario played in the ACC which had the best defensive teams in the country. It also was a very comepetitve conference. Against top flight competiton he played strong and well, against an ok Maryland team he put up big numbers. Just to help you out. So you know that it is not about his measurables, which are enough to make him an interesting prospect, but it is the fact for the last 3 yrs he has been a recognized and rewarded defensive player. He has not had the hype of AJ or the team around him to get him on the national stage but he and the Wolfpack defense single handidly got a bad NCST team into a bowl game.

MorKnolle
03-22-2006, 10:10 PM
has anyone on this board actually watched Mario play a football game :cool:

I feel out to pasture :pigfly: on this prospect all I read about are his measureables. did he play in a big time conference against top flight competition? not exactly. to me it would be a stretch at best to take him first little lone pass on Reggie Bush and trade down to take him. I want a sure thing with the Texans #1 pick, Bush fills the bill. in a trade down to a team willing to give us value in return it would almost certainly be a team out of the top 5 & in that case I would have to at least get Hawk to be a happy camper plus a butt load of present & future picks IMO......

I watched a couple games during the season and recently borrowed TV game tape for another 4-5 games from one of my friends that is a fan of their team and watched them all. He had two games this year with 4 sacks (Southern Mississippi and Maryland, not the best teams they played all year but still decent teams). Florida State and Virginia Tech were their two best opponents and he didn't get a sack in either of those games, but he did get a ton of QB pressures. He played LDE and both DT positions every game, I didn't really see this lack of desire that some people claim, there are times he doesn't read play actions real quickly and overpursues plays a little but I didn't see a lack of motor in him, many times I saw quite the opposite and saw him push thru double teams on the line to get at the QB, effectively use a good variety of moves to get into the backfield, drop back into coverage every now and then, and I saw him chase down RBs from the back side of the play a few times. If their defense had any kind of secondary they likely would have had many more sacks, but opposing QBs could chunk the ball out early frequently and their DBs rarely got picks. Either way, I thought he looked great in the 5-6 games I saw of him, and I would have been pissed to be an opposing QB having him rushing your strong side and getting in your face all day long, having Manny Lawson racing around from your blind side, and then their DT McCargo (been mentioned as high as a mid-2nd round pick, but more likely a 3rd rounder) rushing up the middle too. Opposing QBs looked visibly nervous in all the games I saw. Mario also sounds like an intelligent guy and a student of the game, and sounds like he has the desire to be the best he can be. He is definitely my top choice in this draft, but Reggie Bush (I have also been watching some games on him recently since it looks like he'll be our pick, and I've been impressed with what I've seen of him the second time around) would also be a great option at #1 and I definitely look forward to having either one making plays for us next year.

Texans_Chick
03-22-2006, 10:33 PM
pure bogus. you are a hater, your posts prove it.

VY is an incredible player that can make the Texans great. if you say he is one of your favorite players, you would agree, but you won't.

VY can do miracles for the Texans, all they need to do is draft him. he has PROVEN, NOBODY can stop him.


Even if you made these same points, supported by facts and not hyperbole, your comments are about VY are not helpful because they do not belong in this thread. It makes the MB more difficult to read when posts are made in the wrong place.

Please see:
Click here to read important link for Bush and Young supporters (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16669)
Thank you, have a great evening, and Go Texans! :redtowel:

El Amigo Invisible
03-22-2006, 10:40 PM
Did Mario work over anyone but Maryland? His stats are amazing!He makes Julias Peppers look slow. That being said, How well did he do against the power house teams?

tulexan
03-22-2006, 10:56 PM
The thing about the ACC was that there were a bunch of teams with good defense, but VTech was really the only good offense.

swtbound07
03-22-2006, 11:30 PM
defense wins championships...if the choice is mario or bush, i want Mario. If the choice is hawk or bush, i want hawk. If the choice is vince or bush, i want vince. If the choice is vernon davis or bush, i want davis.

tulexan
03-22-2006, 11:32 PM
what if its between vince and mario?

Mightymike
03-22-2006, 11:34 PM
defense wins championships...if the choice is mario or bush, i want Mario. If the choice is hawk or bush, i want hawk. If the choice is vince or bush, i want vince. If the choice is vernon davis or bush, i want davis.

are you crazy?
What about bush makes you think he's a bust and not the best player in the draft like every team in the league. bush would have the most impact out of all of those players.

beerlover
03-23-2006, 12:01 AM
thanks MorKnolle for your candid scouting report that was kinda what I was after, it speaks volumes that you have watched him play & think that highly of him. for me since I have not I can only go on heresay and thats just not enough for me to invest the emotional attachement that will come with when the Texans announce who their top draft pick will be this year.

I would be ok with Mario and take a wait and see approach trusting Kubiac blessed the pick not Casserly. Vince Young is almost a no win situation given Carrs status and McNairs stance. D'Brick is a real possiblity if some grand trade down offer is made. Doubt if any team will offer enough for the Texans to trade down so Bush is easily the hands down favorite to be the man and no one should doubt he is worth the overall top position.

swtbound07
03-23-2006, 01:33 AM
are you crazy?
What about bush makes you think he's a bust and not the best player in the draft like every team in the league. bush would have the most impact out of all of those players.


I am not drinking the kool aid. Since day one, since pre-vincesanity, since people started calling it the reggie bush sweepstakes, i havent wanted him. Reggie to me, is a product of a very interesting set of circumstances...his breakout year was this year, yes? He was running with the offensive juggernaut of lendale white, dwayne jarrett, domonique byrd, winston justice, and matt leinart. So many weapons, defense's couldnt play reggie bush, and everyone ran amuck. Texas played reggie bush. They said let everybody else get their's, we are stopping reggie. And they did. Forget kick return yards, you dont put a #1 pick returning kicks. passing and recieving yards? not amazing like the rest of his season..subtract the yards on the next to last play of game when texas was in a 40 yard prevent defense, and his stats are even less impressive. Draft him for the texans, you know what happens? They put 2 men on andre, 8 in the box, and reggie goes nowhere. we dont have enough weapons for a reggie bush.

dat_boy_yec
03-23-2006, 09:49 AM
I am not drinking the kool aid. Since day one, since pre-vincesanity, since people started calling it the reggie bush sweepstakes, i havent wanted him. Reggie to me, is a product of a very interesting set of circumstances...his breakout year was this year, yes? He was running with the offensive juggernaut of lendale white, dwayne jarrett, domonique byrd, winston justice, and matt leinart. So many weapons, defense's couldnt play reggie bush, and everyone ran amuck. Texas played reggie bush. They said let everybody else get their's, we are stopping reggie. And they did. Forget kick return yards, you dont put a #1 pick returning kicks. passing and recieving yards? not amazing like the rest of his season..subtract the yards on the next to last play of game when texas was in a 40 yard prevent defense, and his stats are even less impressive. Draft him for the texans, you know what happens? They put 2 men on andre, 8 in the box, and reggie goes nowhere. we dont have enough weapons for a reggie bush.

Yeah you are. You probably don't want him simply because of the hype around him. He had a good yr. his sophmore yr. as well. As for his circumstances Lendales presence hindered him because he didn't get as many touches as he could have to prove he was an everydown back. Byrd was injured most of the season. So they weren't a juggernaut. Even though that is what the hype would lead you to believe. You say that Texas stopped Reggie, but he avg. over six yds. a rush. If that's stopping Bush than I hope the NFL stops him as well. Put eight in the box and motion Bush to slot there are plenty of ways to exploit that formation and I'm positive our new HC is smart enough to do so when he sees it. Also as far as your we don't have enough weapons let me break it down for you.
Jarret=Johnson
White=Davis
Byrd=Putzier
Justice=Pitts (may be a little bit of a stretch, but not much)
Carr=Leinart (yeah I think Carr can prove to be great)

Trapped
03-23-2006, 11:24 AM
Look at every mock, every draft website, they have Reggie Bush as the number 1 PLAYER. 2-8 are interchangeble, the only constant is Reggie Bush.

He's not just a rb, he's an offensive weapon. He's the best player in this draft period. Just because we have a formidable player in D.Davis, we don't pass on a talent like this.

swtbound07
03-23-2006, 12:00 PM
Look at every mock, every draft website, they have Reggie Bush as the number 1 PLAYER. 2-8 are interchangeble, the only constant is Reggie Bush.

He's not just a rb, he's an offensive weapon. He's the best player in this draft period. Just because we have a formidable player in D.Davis, we don't pass on a talent like this.

Because the experts always get it right? I remember a sizeable number of pundits that had aaron rodgers as the #1 player, and he fell to 26 i believe? kijana carter was a consensus number 1 at the time of his coming out. No, he isnt the best player in this draft period. By what standard? A heisman trophy...doesnt mean anything. Vince young had better stats last year. Your right, we do have a formidible talent in dominack davis. If your so willing to give David Carr a chance in kubiaks new system, dont you have to be willing to give that same chance to dominack davis? he could turn into terrell davis in the denver system.

bigTEXan8
03-23-2006, 01:06 PM
Actually I like Mario but players like him come out every 4 to 5 years we had a chance to get one of those talented DE but i will refuse to mention who it is just so i wont get get slammed for bashing D.Carr

Well then let's not make the same mistake...if it was such a disaster that the Texans took Carr over Peppers, then why are they so quick to take Bush over Williams? I think that taking Bush, as good as he is, over Williams is a mistake, and the Texans shouldn't repeat history.

beerlover
03-23-2006, 01:09 PM
we do have a formidible talent in dominack davis. If your so willing to give David Carr a chance in kubiaks new system, dont you have to be willing to give that same chance to dominack davis? he could turn into terrell davis in the denver system.

Dominack no question has talent but his long term status will remain in doubt until his chronic knee condition can be resolved, the same issue (swelling) he had at LSU that dropped him to the 4th rd. in the first place. And now that you bring up Terrell Davis look at what happened to him....then along comes Clinton Portis. Yes lets imagine what Reggie Bush will do in Kubiacs system...IMO

BigBull17
03-23-2006, 01:12 PM
I know this is slightly off topic, but its a damn shame all this tallent had to come out in the same year. In past years these guys would be damn near no brainer #1 overall picks, now you may have talent like VY fall out of the top ten. Teams having to "settle" for a DE like Mario Williams. It just blows your mind how much talent is in the top of this draft. Now to be on topic, my philosophy stays the same, you can never have enough pass rush! Especially if you can get it with your front 4. It makes poor coverage look servicable, it allows LBs to roam the field and create turnover chances. But either way, with either of these freaks on our team next year, how can you lose. Just my:twocents:

swtbound07
03-23-2006, 04:12 PM
I know this is slightly off topic, but its a damn shame all this tallent had to come out in the same year. In past years these guys would be damn near no brainer #1 overall picks, now you may have talent like VY fall out of the top ten. Teams having to "settle" for a DE like Mario Williams. It just blows your mind how much talent is in the top of this draft. Now to be on topic, my philosophy stays the same, you can never have enough pass rush! Especially if you can get it with your front 4. It makes poor coverage look servicable, it allows LBs to roam the field and create turnover chances. But either way, with either of these freaks on our team next year, how can you lose. Just my:twocents:


drafts dont always appear what they seem friend. Look to the draft of 2004 for guidance

freaks of nature like Kellen "im a soldier" Winslow, Sean Taylor, and reggie williams were to be had. Sean taylor is in prison, winslow is in harley rehab, and reggie is underproductive....other misses from the first round chris perry, rashaun woods, jason babin. Yes, this draft seems incredibly deep....but who knows how these prospects will pan out in a couple of years. I cant think of a single pick that couldnt miss, and miss badly. Reggie could be a bust, matt leinart could be a bust, dbrick could be a bust, mario williams could be a bust....its very dicey.

el toro
03-23-2006, 07:19 PM
Kubiak has a proven track record in developing a strong running game. Some say defense wins championships, well so does having an offense that can chew up yards and the clock. This is how a Bush pick can further the Texans' move to winning than going with a stud DE prospect. Davis has had some injury issues. Taking Bush reduces his workload somewhat and also would enhance Davis' impact, IMO. Bush also gives you versatility with his ability to line up as a receiver. Again, if Capers was the coach I could see the logic in trading down, but with a proven offensive coach and his system I think taking Bush is a no-brainer, unless someone offers something stupid (ala HWalker or RWilliams) for the pick.

killeentexan
03-24-2006, 01:15 PM
Highly rated defensive ends are never ever ever draft busts.

Sincerely,

Andre Wadsworth
and highly rated RB's always work out great!

Sincerely,

Ron Dayne
Curtis Enos
Lawrence Phillips
Tim Biakabutaka
Ki-Jana Carter

tulexan
03-24-2006, 01:28 PM
Ki-Jana Carter is different. The guy got injured before he could do anything. The same thing could've happened to Peyton Manning, Barry Sanders, or any other future hall of famer

SteelBlueToro
03-24-2006, 01:46 PM
defense wins championships...if the choice is mario or bush, i want Mario. If the choice is hawk or bush, i want hawk. If the choice is vince or bush, i want vince. If the choice is vernon davis or bush, i want davis.
You don't like Reggie Bush, do you?

killeentexan
03-24-2006, 01:48 PM
and highly rated RB's always work out great!

Sincerely,

Ron Dayne
Curtis Enos
Lawrence Phillips
Tim Biakabutaka
Ki-Jana Carter
and highly rated RB's always work out great!

Sincerely,

Ron Dayne
Curtis Enos
Lawrence Phillips
Tim Biakabutaka
Blair Thomas

Fixorated it!

tulexan
03-24-2006, 01:51 PM
OK but you can say that about every position. Name one position where there have never been any busts.

Trapped
03-24-2006, 02:37 PM
and highly rated RB's always work out great!

Sincerely,

Ron Dayne
Curtis Enos
Lawrence Phillips
Tim Biakabutaka
Blair Thomas

Fixorated it!
same can be said wit DE's, there's a chance for a bust player at every position.

Jamal Reynolds
Cedric Jones
Andre Wadsworth
Courtney Brown

thunderkyss
03-24-2006, 02:38 PM
Kubiak has a proven track record in developing a strong running game. Some say defense wins championships, well so does having an offense that can chew up yards and the clock. This is how a Bush pick can further the Texans' move to winning than going with a stud DE prospect. Davis has had some injury issues. Taking Bush reduces his workload somewhat and also would enhance Davis' impact, IMO. Bush also gives you versatility with his ability to line up as a receiver. Again, if Capers was the coach I could see the logic in trading down, but with a proven offensive coach and his system I think taking Bush is a no-brainer, unless someone offers something stupid (ala HWalker or RWilliams) for the pick.

In Kubiak's system, look for DD & Morency to gain 1000yards. we'll be a'chewin and a'spittin yards all day long. DD & Morency, heck if you have to, draft D'angelo, or Addai with a later pick.... much safer picks.....
You've got your reciever....... Andre, YOur QB... Carr/Sage/Vince and your Back...... DD

killeentexan
03-24-2006, 03:27 PM
same can be said wit DE's, there's a chance for a bust player at every position.

Jamal Reynolds
Cedric Jones
Andre Wadsworth
Courtney Brown
Agreed - I was just answering the original post about Andre Wadsworth being a bust. All positions and players have a "bust potential". The skill positions, QB, RB & WR have a higher percentage of busts then the OL & DL positions. With that in mind, I would rather see us take D'Brick or Super Mario.

el toro
03-24-2006, 03:30 PM
In Kubiak's system, look for DD & Morency to gain 1000yards. we'll be a'chewin and a'spittin yards all day long. DD & Morency, heck if you have to, draft D'angelo, or Addai with a later pick.... much safer picks.....
You've got your reciever....... Andre, YOur QB... Carr/Sage/Vince and your Back...... DD

Sure, they can help chew and spit while Bush slashes and burns.

tulexan
03-24-2006, 03:39 PM
Agreed - I was just answering the original post about Andre Wadsworth being a bust. All positions and players have a "bust potential". The skill positions, QB, RB & WR have a higher percentage of busts then the OL & DL positions. With that in mind, I would rather see us take D'Brick or Super Mario.

Skill positions have a higher percentage of busts because they are generally higher profile players than OL and DL so when they do fail there is more press about it.

Trapped
03-24-2006, 04:16 PM
Skill positions have a higher percentage of busts because they are generally higher profile players than OL and DL so when they do fail there is more press about it.
yep, people care about ron dayne being a bust moreso than OT Mike Williams being a bust, cuz Dayne was a heisman winner.

swtbound07
03-24-2006, 05:38 PM
You don't like Reggie Bush, do you?


good...somebody got it. I was afraid i was being too subtle

Trapped
03-25-2006, 12:57 AM
I would only want Mario Williams if the Saints Draft Ferguson at #2 leaving Williams at number 4, and the Jets offer us #4, #29, and next years second.

But other than that, i will draft the President over Super Mario.

Too many studs in this draft, but Super Mario and The President are like 1a and 1b.

But Bush will be drafted number 1, the trade down talks only happen if Mario is available at 4, if the Saints draft Mario, then we keep Bush.

michaelm
03-25-2006, 01:43 AM
In his Combine interview which can also be found on NFL.com he states he watches film all the time, because when it is said and done he wants to be the best that ever played the position. He then recanted and said he wants to be one of the best to ever play the game. That is desire and drive.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9312648

I'm not saying that Mario doesn't have desire, but the interview you quoted isn't an example of desire to me.
It is an example of a player telling an interviewer he has desire.

Trapped
03-25-2006, 03:55 PM
I'm not saying that Mario doesn't have desire, but the interview you quoted isn't an example of desire to me.
It is an example of a player telling an interviewer he has desire.
Some players just have "IT".

When i saw Kobe Bryant and his cocky self enter the NBA, i knew this kid had "IT".

It's not what u say, it's the way you play, I watched a bowl game of NCstate just to evaluate Super Mario, and he took alot of plays off. Manny Lawson motor and desire is way higher than Super Mario's.

Texans>Colts
03-25-2006, 03:56 PM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/BlueDevil3380/thisthreadrocks.jpg

MorKnolle
03-26-2006, 02:23 AM
Some players just have "IT".

When i saw Kobe Bryant and his cocky self enter the NBA, i knew this kid had "IT".

It's not what u say, it's the way you play, I watched a bowl game of NCstate just to evaluate Super Mario, and he took alot of plays off. Manny Lawson motor and desire is way higher than Super Mario's.

You obviously haven't seen many of their games then, Mario's motor is higher than Lawson's for the most part. Lawson is obviously faster but Mario is much bigger and stronger, and he has a much wider variety of moves. He is still a little raw and needs a little work on his technique, but he has amazing physical skills and the intelligence and desire to quickly adjust to the NFL game and be an excellent player. I think he has the potential to have the biggest immediate impact of any player in thisdraft and should be a very productive DE for a long time. He is definitely the best defensive playmaker available and is my #1 prospect in this draft with Reggie Bush as my #2 favorite.

run-david-run
03-26-2006, 11:30 AM
Mario put up 62tackles, 24 tackles for loss, and 14.5 sacks, 1FF, 1blocked kick, and 1safety. He also recovered a fumble and returned a punt 8yards.

Combine stats. 6'7" 295 40-4.66 10-1.56 Vertical 40" Broad Jump-9ft 11inch Wonderlic 24

Link for stats http://gopack.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2005-2006/teamcume.html
lol, Mario ran a 40 time comparable to DD! If we draft him, our strong side DE and our starting running back will be as fast as each other!!!