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F-minus67
08-18-2004, 02:13 PM
does anyone else think that we are putting to much pressure on babins this year. I mean he is changing positions and playing on the left side, so unless you are peter bolwier (Yes, I know I killed his last name) from the ravens sacks your first year are hard to come by. Not to mention from what I hear babins played better at close to 275-285 in college. I'm not trying to hate on him or anything but, lets try to keep it reasonable.

BigDTexansFan
08-18-2004, 02:21 PM
I think Babin shows a lot of potential, I mean Cowboys had a highly rated offense last year and yet he managed to disrupt things and cause a turnover.

As to will he be mentioned like a Peter Boulware (think got name right), Jason Taylor, Ray Lewis...only time will tell...but I don't think expectation that he will be someone great is unrealistic..Casserly and Capers didn't give up all those picks for someone who couldn't play :soapbox:

Ediddy73
08-18-2004, 02:46 PM
nope. If T. Suggs can do it, I expect Babin to do it too. We could have drafted 3 other defensive players to help (Starks, Schoebel, LaBoy) but Tenn. took 2 of those 3 with our picks. If Babin gets his *** handed to him on a regular basis, then we made a bad call. Save your "Schoebel is out for a long time" responses too. You are the same people who went out and bought Joppru jerseys. You can't forsee a training camp injury before the draft. Babin was a first rounder, and I expect him to play accordingly. Not unrealistic.

Lucky
08-18-2004, 03:17 PM
...Not to mention from what I hear babins played better at close to 275-285 in college...
Where are you hearing that? Babins weighed in at the combine at 260 lbs. Why would Jason lose the 15-25 lbs when most teams run a 43 and would have loved to have a DE that size with that agility? It doesn't make sense.

F-minus67
08-18-2004, 03:27 PM
I heard that he was that heavy on a draft website after the draft when some people were questioning why the texans would have taken him. Another reason why suggs got that many sacks is that he played on the right side opposite of peter boulware, he set the college sack record and only played on passing downs.

Nawzer
08-18-2004, 03:32 PM
Depends on how Kailee Wong plays this season. T.Suggs played well because Peter Boulware was on the other side so if Wong can put more pressure then Babin will have more success as the season wears on.

Lucky
08-18-2004, 03:35 PM
I heard that he was that heavy on a draft website after the draft... Another reason why suggs got that many sacks is that he played on the right side opposite of peter boulware, he set the college sack record and only played on passing downs.
Well, I think evidence and logic indicates that the "draft website" was wrong about Babin's weight.

Actually it's Suggs that plays the ROLB & Boulware who plays on the left. I'm not sure what effect setting the college sack record or only playing on passing downs had on the total number Suggs had as a rookie. Unless you're suggesting that Suggs would have had more sacks had he been an every down player?

done88
08-18-2004, 03:47 PM
I think Babin will start and be successful for the Texans for a long time to come. However this year I expect that Peek will out perform him. PeeK and Babin will combine for more sacks then any other duo in the league starting next year. This year they will compete but Lewis and Bware(name wrong) will combine for the most this year.

Porky
08-18-2004, 03:51 PM
Pressure comes with the territory when your are a high draft pick, loaded with cash, and when the team who drafted you gave upo three mid round picks to get you. I would think if Mr. Babin is the kind of person and player I think he is, he will relish that pressure, and perform up to expectations. Having said that, as has been noted, he is from a small school, and changing posisitions. Unless he sets the world on fire, I am planning on giving him 2-3 years before making a judgement.

Sarg01
08-18-2004, 04:56 PM
I think Babin will start and be successful for the Texans for a long time to come. However this year I expect that Peek will out perform him. PeeK and Babin will combine for more sacks then any other duo in the league starting next year. This year they will compete but Lewis and Bware(name wrong) will combine for the most this year.

Didn't Boulware go out for the season with injury?

Anyhow, I think you're a little optimistic in your prediction but hey ... love it if it comes true.

infantrycak
08-18-2004, 05:11 PM
Didn't Boulware go out for the season with injury?

Anyhow, I think you're a little optimistic in your prediction but hey ... love it if it comes true.

Boulware missed one game last year. Don't know about leading the NFL, but combining for more than Lewis and Boulware isn't that unrealistic--Lewis is an ILB and only had 1.5 sacks last year--they combined for 10. Four from Babin and six from Peek doesn't strike me as unlikely. Now use Suggs 12 sacks instead of Lewis' 1.5 for a total of 20.5--yeah that is probably asking a bit much.

Marcus
08-18-2004, 06:07 PM
Unless he sets the world on fire, I am planning on giving him 2-3 years before making a judgement.

That's fair. But judging him (or Casserly for that matter) on draft day is NOT. I'm not gonna mention any names, but someone around here seems to place more importance on quantity over quality, as if they have Starks, Schoebel and Laboy on the brain. Truth of the matter is someone is still peeved that he had his precious draft day ruined.

nunusguy
08-18-2004, 06:12 PM
Where are you hearing that? Babins weighed in at the combine at 260 lbs. Why would Jason lose the 15-25 lbs when most teams run a 43 and would have loved to have a DE that size with that agility? It doesn't make sense.
I can confirm what minus67 is saying, I saw the same info. on a web site (probably the same site he was looking at). They went on to say that his 40 times, which were impressive, should be discounted because he played at the
heavier weight (280 range) and would probably put it back on after he was drafted. The implication was that he had trimmed down for max performance
in the combine/workouts (including improving his 40 time). Of course he needs the speed as a 3-4 OLB but would probably want the bulk had he been drafted
as a 4-3 downlinman.
By the way, I was at practice last night and saw a couple series of downs
with Babin & Peek at OLB and Sharper & Wong at ILB. Some say this is the
best group of LBs we can put on the field.

Vinny
08-18-2004, 06:22 PM
The WMU site had him listed at 6'4" 276 but how often can you trust the measurments of Universities? Unless Babin shrunk 2" this year I would guess that his weight was a bit on the high side also (Babin is 6'2"). For instance, Hakeem was 7' tall at the U of H. He is closer to 6'10 than 7'0". Babin, like C Anderson (Mississippi) both played heavier at DE than they will at OLB in the NFL but I'm sure the Texans "body-typed" them and probably figured that they could produce at the 260 range and it would not be a struggle to maintain that playing weight. Babin isn't real tall and he is not a natural 280 pounder to my eye. His current weight is probably a solid weight for him.93 Jason Babin, DT 6-4 276 Sr Paw Paw, MI (Paw Paw)

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/de/Sfbc-lgns-westmichroster.Rzkq_DSC.html

Lucky
08-18-2004, 06:46 PM
I can confirm what minus67 is saying, I saw the same info. on a web site (probably the same site he was looking at). They went on to say that his 40 times, which were impressive, should be discounted because he played at the
heavier weight (280 range) and would probably put it back on after he was drafted. The implication was that he had trimmed down for max performance
in the combine/workouts (including improving his 40 time). Of course he needs the speed as a 3-4 OLB but would probably want the bulk had he been drafted
as a 4-3 downlinman.
Babin came into the combine in February at 6-1.5, 260lbs on the nose. My guess is that if he ever was at the higher weight, it was at the beginning of the season and that he couldn't keep it on through the year. But Babin never put the phantom weight back on. In the time between the combine & the draft, he had personal workouts. Why was he selling himself at 260 lbs when the market for 280 lbs DEs is much greater? Waiting until after the draft to put the weight back on would be too late for the NFL 43 defensive teams to know as to whether Babin could put the weight on at all.

Unless Babin just happened to know that the Texans would trade up into the 1st and want him at OLB, it made no sense for him to stay at the lower weight before the draft. Unless he couldn't really play at that weight. I'm not criticizing what you or F-minus67 are reporting. Just that the website's theory has holes and should be discounted.

aj.
08-18-2004, 08:19 PM
I've seen Babin up close several times the last few weeks and he looks like a linebacker and nowhere close to a DE. In fact, when he's standing with the other LBs he doesn't stand out as being taller, bigger or whatever. He was a relatively small DE in college. He looks like he's about 6'2" - 6'3" and about 255-260. Little or no fat on the guy - ripped to the max. He's appears to be the same height as Sharper but noticeably heavier, but when he's standing next to Wong, he's noticeably leaner even though he may be slightly heavier than Kailee. Kailee looks heavier this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he's 255. Btw - speaking of heavy -- Jerry DeLoach looks like he's put on some serious LBs - all in the arse.

nunusguy
08-19-2004, 08:36 AM
The link is to website with the story 'bout Babin's playing weight being 'bout
280 in college. Look at "Negatives" within the "Analysis" topic. I think NFL.COM is a pretty reliable web site re it's info., but I certainly can't personally vouch for the veracity of the info in this particular story.
After having seen Babin in person, I would say he's south of 260 if anything and
would not have the frame and height to adaquately carry 280 and still have
tfhe quickness needed at OLB. And I bet his handlers advised him that he would
be most marketable as an OLB even though it would represent a big learning curve. There's what, 4 or 5 other 3-4 teams besides us ? I just don't think the
guy is big enough to play down lineman - at any weight he puts on his frame.
Maybe at W.Michigan, but not in the NFL.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jason_babin

Lucky
08-19-2004, 09:56 AM
That's the same Babin Profile (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/489706) that's on Sportsline. Frank Cooney does the write ups for Sportsline. He likely looked at Babin's listed weight at WMU, looked at Babin's combine weight, and made some assumptions. Typical web scout stuff.

keyfro
08-19-2004, 11:36 PM
i look at it this way...we have up so many picks in what might be the deepest draft in years for this guy...he was made to be our starting LOLB which in this defense means a lot...especially as a rookie...capers is one of the best defensive guys in this defense so he knows what it takes to be good...he passed on players like peppers and suggs in the past but must have saw something in babin to jump at him...(i know casserly is our gm who drafted him but if your honestly thinking that capers doesn't have some input on it you're a fool)...so to me the fact that we traded to get him...the fact that capers right off the bat made him our starting LOLB tells me that he is supposed to be a good one from day one...no matter where he was drafted in round one he's still a 1st rounder...i expect somewhere around 10 sacks this year...if it's too much pressure for the guy to take he's in the wrong business

SESupergenius
08-20-2004, 02:26 AM
nope. If T. Suggs can do it, I expect Babin to do it too. We could have drafted 3 other defensive players to help (Starks, Schoebel, LaBoy) but Tenn. took 2 of those 3 with our picks. If Babin gets his *** handed to him on a regular basis, then we made a bad call. Save your "Schoebel is out for a long time" responses too. You are the same people who went out and bought Joppru jerseys. You can't forsee a training camp injury before the draft. Babin was a first rounder, and I expect him to play accordingly. Not unrealistic.

It is very unrealistic to expect Babin to be superstar this year. Geez, for crying out loud, we got him late in the 1st round, you act like we got him in the top 10. Call me in three years to find out if Babin was a mistake. It's well known that 3-4 linebackers take time to season, Babin should be no exception. Suggs played part time and was a situational rusher. Babin gets the start from the get go and has a lot more responsibilities. Sure it may take him a bit, but he will probably be worth more than Weary, Wells, Hill, Joppru,....you get the point.

You are probably just all mad that you still have your Boselli jersey.

Vinny
08-20-2004, 10:59 AM
I agree with the superbrainiac dude. Suggs was a top-10 pick; started with the first team early in camp last year, then they had to move him back when he hurt the defense last year in areas other than being a sackmeister. It just takes a few years to transition. Look at the difference in Peek from last year to this year. Is Babin supposed to be the exception just because he is a Texan and we moved up in the draft for him? I don't understand that logic. The learning curve is the same regardless. Relax and watch the guy grow. He has flashed skills. Enjoy the ride. Why stress it, unless you are a bandwaggon fan.

Hervoyel
08-20-2004, 11:10 AM
Expect a couple of really sweet highlights from Babin this year along with some glaring mistakes and that should about cover it. The highlights are going to have some people annointing him as brilliant while the mistakes are going to be food for the "Babin was a mistake" crowd.

I don't doubt that here and there we're going to see what he's capable of if we're paying attention. Vinny and SES are correct. Give him time. Carr was "our boy" the last couple of years and yet he frankly played poorly. We hung on the highlights which showed us what he can be given time. Gaffney has been a work in progress for two years now and every game it's a toss up in conversation over whether he's a bust or the real thing. Those two guys are just now reaching a point where an honest evaluation can be made. Babin in late 2005 and 2006 will be ripe for evaluation. Until then nothings certain.