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CaptainPatriot
03-19-2006, 10:01 AM
How the Lions and have to add New Orleans can see they need a new QB(even though I think Brooks is still good) and the Texans don`t? idonno:

stats don`t lie Look at the 3 QB`s Stats:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302199

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233


Texan`s are not even bring in a QB to challange Carr :brickwall

If Texans are not going to take VY. How about bring in Aaron Brooks to challange Carr?




Look at td/int ratio!!!!!

Dunta_23
03-19-2006, 10:15 AM
The Texans are keeping David Carr because Gary Kubiak thinks he can be very successful in the NFL. Joey Harrington does not want to play in Detroit or he would still be there...once they brought in Kitna he had no intentions of sticking around.

Wolf
03-19-2006, 10:17 AM
Roy williams
mike Williams
and the off-injured Charlie Rogers

offensive minded Stevie M


Andre Johnson
Corey bradford
Jabar Gaffney

defensive minded Capers



only thing I can think of is the Lions had more weapons around Joey compared to Carr and he didn't produce accordingly

idonno:

*edit* I am not knocking Carr.. I am just talking about Joey

RTP2110
03-19-2006, 10:19 AM
They're 2 different guys, on 2 different teams, in 2 different situations. Just because they were drafted the same year doesn't mean anything. The Lions have NOTHING to do with the Texans.

HOOK'EM
03-19-2006, 10:23 AM
............dont forget TE Marcus Pollard and a very good OL. Bloey Harrington hasn't been sacked more than 20 times in a single season.

HOOK'EM
03-19-2006, 10:26 AM
Now he wants out, so he wont be riding the pine up there in Detriot.:loser

CaptainPatriot
03-19-2006, 10:29 AM
They're 2 different guys, on 2 different teams, in 2 different situations. Just because they were drafted the same year doesn't mean anything. The Lions have NOTHING to do with the Texans.

how are they diffrerent they have similar stats. How are the teams different when they are both cleaning house? idonno:

dtran04
03-19-2006, 10:41 AM
Joey chose to sabotage QB camp. Thats the difference. According to him, everyone hates him and he hates them too.

Mailman04
03-19-2006, 10:44 AM
I will explain one thing to you. Thank God Houston isn't going to waste a draft pick on Vince Young. If they took a QB to challenge Carr they would surely take Matt Leinart. They need to take Reggie Bush. The reason they kept Carr is they have a real offensive staff now and they think he can play. I do too.

Grid
03-19-2006, 10:47 AM
{insert catchy opening line}

{insert quote of rehashed arguement}

{insert past arguments on this topic}

{insert reworded arguments to make them seem like your idea}

{insert smug smiley}

search button is at the top of the forum

Sportsfan
03-19-2006, 11:06 AM
{insert catchy opening line}

{insert quote of rehashed arguement}

{insert past arguments on this topic}

{insert reworded arguments to make them seem like your idea}

{insert smug smiley}

search button is at the top of the forum

lol:

Bubbajwp
03-19-2006, 11:08 AM
how are they diffrerent they have similar stats. How are the teams different when they are both cleaning house? idonno:
Heres one their in differents states.

LBC_Justin
03-19-2006, 11:23 AM
How the Lions and have to add New Orleans can see they need a new QB(even though I think Brooks is still good) and the Texans don`t? idonno:

stats don`t lie Look at the 3 QB`s Stats:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302199

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233


Texan`s are not even bring in a QB to challange Carr :brickwall

If Texans are not going to take VY. How about bring in Aaron Brooks to challange Carr?




Look at td/int ratio!!!!!

Hmmm....I didn't see anything in your post about Carr playing behind the Worst Pass protecting O-line in NFL history.

Bottomeline is that Dom Capers, Dan Reeves, Gary Kubiak and other several other great NFL minds think Carr has what it takes not only to be a good player but to be a great player. From what I hear EVERY head coach candidate that McNair interviewed thought Carr was the man.

If he gets protection and doesn't perform I will be the first to say he needs to hit the road.

We will see next season won't we.

CaptainPatriot
03-19-2006, 04:10 PM
Heres one their in differents states.

See that this is a joke to you. Hope the new coaching staff doesn`t have your attitiude!

cuppacoffee
03-19-2006, 05:44 PM
See that this is a joke to you. Hope the new coaching staff doesn`t have your attitiude!

The only joke I see here is a Pats fan feigning interest in the Houston Texans.

Texizgreat
03-19-2006, 06:21 PM
How about we bring in Joey to challenge Carr :stirpot:

the wonger need food
03-19-2006, 06:33 PM
Good question and one that many of us have been asking for a while.

The truth of the matter is, Carr is the face of the franchise and to cut him loose would be admitting failure and an embarrassment to an organization that values public sentiment over winning football games.

There seems to be a prime directive in place that prevents anyone in the organization from bringing in a challenger for Carr's job. During the 2004 draft someone from the organization had to call Big Dave before they selected Drew Henson to explain to him that he was in no danger of being challenged for his job. As long as this mentality continues, the organization will continue to fail.

Carr Bombed
03-19-2006, 06:45 PM
Good question and one that many of us have been asking for a while.

The truth of the matter is, Carr is the face of the franchise and to cut him loose would be admitting failure and an embarrassment to an organization that values public sentiment over winning football games.

There seems to be a prime directive in place that prevents anyone in the organization from bringing in a challenger for Carr's job. During the 2004 draft someone from the organization had to call Big Dave before they selected Drew Henson to explain to him that he was in no danger of being challenged for his job. As long as this mentality continues, the organization will continue to fail.

I'm not buying that, how can you say the organization doesn't care about winning, I would really like you to explain the difference between winning and public sentiment-they go hand in hand. They brought in Reeves who has taken teams to multiple superbowls, brought in Kubiak who has won multiple superbowls and Mcnair has listened to both of their opinions which are Carr is not the problem. When the Texans took Henson Carr just finished up his first year so it was a given Henson wasn't going to challenge him and what has he done in Dallas, Nothing so that statement makes no sense what so ever. I swear I'm starting to feel some people would like to see Carr fail more than see the Texans succeed.

the wonger need food
03-19-2006, 06:59 PM
I'm not buying that, how can you say the organization doesn't care about winning, I would really like you to explain the difference between winning and public sentiment-they go hand in hand. They brought in Reeves who has taken teams to multiple superbowls, brough in Kubiak who has won multiple superbowls and Mcnair has listened to both of their opinions which are Carr is not the problem. When the Texans took Henson Carr just finished up his first year so it was a given Henson wasn't going to challenge him and what has he done in Dallas, Nothing so that statement makes no sense what so ever. I swear I'm starting to feel some people would like to see Carr fail more than see the Texans succeed.

Winning is winning. An example of public sentiment is keeping Carr around since he was their first ever draft choice and face of the franchise. If the Texans would have chosed Joe Harrington he would get to experience the same treatment.

A phone call was made to Carr before (or immediately after) the pick was made... that's all I know. Sounds like coddling to me, but feel free to interpret it any way you wish.

The guy had a horrible finish to his 3rd season and no one was brought in to challenge him. The guy had a horrible 4th season and no one was brought in to challenge him. There is a pattern here. Sure, Kubiak and the new staff are going to say all the right things, that's their job. But the fact of the matter is, they have no choice or say in the matter... they are stuck with Big Dave, AKA Davie Franchise. He is the face of the franchise and essentially their biggest failure on the field.

Texansbacker
03-19-2006, 07:17 PM
I'm not buying that, how can you say the organization doesn't care about winning, I would really like you to explain the difference between winning and public sentiment-they go hand in hand. They brought in Reeves who has taken teams to multiple superbowls, brought in Kubiak who has won multiple superbowls and Mcnair has listened to both of their opinions which are Carr is not the problem. When the Texans took Henson Carr just finished up his first year so it was a given Henson wasn't going to challenge him and what has he done in Dallas, Nothing so that statement makes no sense what so ever. I swear I'm starting to feel some people would like to see Carr fail more than see the Texans succeed.


Speaking of Drew Henson, he is now playing in NFL Europe.

An excerpt from the article:

Eyes were on Dallas Cowboys quarterback Drew Henson as he started his first game for Rhein. His numbers were modest, 5 of 11 for 58 yards, but with the Fire defense forcing three turnovers, it was enough to help his team to an opening day win against their arch-rivals.

www.nfleurope.com/news/story/9318875

The Texans have Dave Ragone of NFLE fame.

Carr Bombed
03-19-2006, 07:31 PM
OK first off

Winning is winning. An example of public sentiment is keeping Carr around since he was their first ever draft choice and face of the franchise.If the Texans would have chosed Joe Harrington he would get to experience the same treatment.

That makes no sense what so ever, the only thing fans and this organization care about is WINS, that became pretty evident with the mass exodus of stadium attendance figures last year

A phone call was made to Carr before (or immediately after) the pick was made... that's all I know. Sounds like coddling to me, but feel free to interpret it any way you wish.

Again this really isn't a strong argument and doesn't make much sense seeing how Carr a #1 ovrl pick on a EXPANSION FRANCHISE just finished his first year. Nobody questioned whether of not he would be challenged, not the FO, not the fans, not me, and I bet you didn't question who was going to be the starting QB. Who pulls a rookie QB after their first year. Alex Smith just put up one of the worst years in history for a starting QB and I don't hear anything about him being questioned or "challenged" next year. The Henson argument is a moot point.

The guy had a horrible finish to his 3rd season and no one was brought in to challenge him. The guy had a horrible 4th season and no one was brought in to challenge him. There is a pattern here.

Really, because last year Carr was amongst the league leaders in passing yards and YPA and had one of the highest QB ratings in the 4th quarter and with his play had many people excited about the Texans chances going into 2005.

Sure, Kubiak and the new staff are going to say all the right things, that's their job. But the fact of the matter is, they have no choice or say in the matter... they are stuck with Big Dave, AKA Davie Franchise. He is the face of the franchise and essentially their biggest failure on the field.

That is a bunch of bull, first off their JOB is to win football games and they've already started cutting the fat, if they felt they couldn't win with Carr they would easily draft Lienart or Young or Cutler, the fact that they aren't shows that they are comfortable with Carr as their starting QB, which they've stated many of times.

As far as you suggesting that "they have no say in the matter" Kubiak has hand pick all the FA's they've signed so far, he is putting his stamp on this team and Carr is apart of that stamp, by his choice.

the wonger need food
03-19-2006, 07:44 PM
OK first off



That makes no sense what so ever, the only thing fans and this organization care about is WINS, that became pretty evident with the mass exodus of stadium attendance figures last year

Again this really isn't a strong argument and doesn't make much sense seeing how Carr a #1 ovrl pick on a EXPANSION FRANCHISE just finished his first year. Nobody questioned whether of not he would be challenged, not the FO, not the fans, not me, and I bet you didn't question who was going to be the starting QB. Who pulls a rookie QB after their first year. Alex Smith just put up one of the worst years in history for a starting QB and I don't hear anything about him being questioned or "challenged" next year. The Henson argument is a moot point.

Really, because last year Carr was amongst the league leaders in passing yards and YPA and had one of the highest QB ratings in the 4th quarter and with his play had many people excited about the Texans chances going into 2005.

That is a bunch of bull, first off their JOB is to win football games and they've already started cutting the fat, if they felt they couldn't win with Carr they would easily draft Lienart or Young or Cutler, the fact that they aren't shows that they are comfortable with Carr as their starting QB.

As far as you suggesting that "they have no say in the matter" Kubiak has hand pick all the FA's they've signed so far, he is putting his stamp on this team and Carr is apart of that stamp, by his choice.

- Politics play a part in everything. As I said previously, showing anything less than full faith (at least publicly) in the face of the franchise is bad PR.

- There is no argument here... simply stating a fact. Why did someone have to call him at all?

- Go back and look at the stats and the win/loss totals. Carr was simply horrible in the second half of 2004. He had 1 game over 200 yards over the second half of that season (208 v. Chicago). The offense as a whole regressed rapidly in large part to Carr's play.

Yes, the new coaching staff's job is to win and they have a lot of say in who is brought in and/or cut. However, Carr has been deemed untouchable by people at the top and there's not much Kubiak or anyone else can do about it.

Carr Bombed
03-19-2006, 08:02 PM
First

But the fact of the matter is, they have no choice or say in the matter.

Then

Yes, the new coaching staff's job is to win and they have a lot of say in who is brought in and/or cut.

:confused: WHAT, does the staff have pull or don't they, I don't get what your trying to say.

- Politics play a part in everything. As I said previously, showing anything less than full faith (at least publicly) in the face of the franchise is bad PR.

As far as that goes. Going 2-14 and being the worst team in the league is bad PR. Drafting VY a home town favorite would be great PR, but like I've stated before our team doesn't care about PR, they care about winning and they feel they have a better chance winning supporting Carr and building around him, it is pretty evident with all the moves they've made so far.

- Go back and look at the stats and the win/loss totals. Carr was simply horrible in the second half of 2004. He had 1 game over 200 yards over the second half of that season (208 v. Chicago). The offense as a whole regressed rapidly in large part to Carr's play.

I guess the rest of the team shouldn't be held for this team's short commings, nope lets just blame everything on Carr, its alot easier that way.

Look I'll be the first one to ditch Carr if he proves he can't do it with solid protection and a solid team around him, but like I've said before that hasn't been the case. There isn't a player on this team that didn't under perform or just didn't plain suck last year.

Kubiak, Reeves, and the rest of the staff feel Carr can be successfull, lets see if they're right.

kbourda
03-20-2006, 01:20 AM
Really, because last year Carr was amongst the league leaders in passing yards and YPA and had one of the highest QB ratings in the 4th quarter and with his play had many people excited about the Texans chances going into 2005.

Really, so that means that his O-line got a spark of life in the 4th quarter? I don't get it. When Carr does well, it's all him, all day long. When Carr does bad, it's the o-line, the coaching staff, the WR's, the Taliban, etc (you get the point).

tsip
03-20-2006, 06:10 AM
"We will see next season won't we."


...please, please let this be true!! I look forward to the day when the word 'excuse' is no longer the rally call of this team and is replaced by the word 'result.':yahoo:

Carr Bombed
03-20-2006, 06:14 AM
Really, so that means that his O-line got a spark of life in the 4th quarter? I don't get it. When Carr does well, it's all him, all day long. When Carr does bad, it's the o-line, the coaching staff, the WR's, the Taliban, etc (you get the point). Hey I'm just listing stats (and the truth is in 04 Carr was one of the best QBs going down the stretch and in crunch time. As far as the Oline, they were a hell of a lot better in 04 then they were in 05, so I really don't know what your trying to get at. Also I'm not trying to suggest all of Carr's successes is a direct result of what he did, so I don't understand what your trying to suggest. Like I've stated MANY TIMES, its a team effort and when we went 2-14 it was because we stunk it up as a team. It's funny how when Carr does good some people say "Its because the team did good (which is true), but when he or the team does bad they say, "Carr is the reason why this team sucks" and try to blame everthing on him, newsflash this whole team sucked last year, from the coaching on down.

tsip
03-20-2006, 06:34 AM
"and the truth is in 04 Carr was one of the best QBs going down the stretch"

I think your post would be more credible if you 'practice what you preach.' You admonish other posters for only seeing the negative in Carr and then you make a statement like the one above! Facts are facts--go back and look at Carr's stats the first part of '04 when the Texans were 4-3 and then look at his stats the last 9 games when the team was 3-6. I'm not trying to blame Carr for the collapse of '04, I'm saying he had 'all-pro' numbers the first 7 games but not so (for whatever reasons) for the last 9.

It is still a mystery why/how Carr performed so well those 7 games but not so well before or after. It is also a fact that this team will not succeed if Carr's performace mirrors his last 25 games, but here's hoping that the future is bright!:drool:

the wonger need food
03-20-2006, 08:58 AM
Hey I'm just listing stats (and the truth is in 04 Carr was one of the best QBs going down the stretch and in crunch time.

Really? How many yards did he have in the second half of the Green Bay game when they had a chance to win the game? If I remember correctly, they did not pick up a single first down in the 4th quarter of that game. And that's just one example... I can find plenty more.

Hookem Horns
03-20-2006, 09:12 AM
How the Lions and have to add New Orleans can see they need a new QB(even though I think Brooks is still good) and the Texans don`t? idonno:

stats don`t lie Look at the 3 QB`s Stats:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302199

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233


Texan`s are not even bring in a QB to challange Carr :brickwall

If Texans are not going to take VY. How about bring in Aaron Brooks to challange Carr?

Look at td/int ratio!!!!!

First off I am amazed that no one has accused you of "looking at the world through burnt orange glasses blah, blah, blah..."

As you can see and as I would have predicted, your responses would be "Because David Carr {insert latest fashionable excuse here}".

Maybe Reggie Bush is going to come in here and play every position including QB. Some would have you think that is the case.

The Myth
03-20-2006, 01:58 PM
They're 2 different guys, on 2 different teams, in 2 different situations. Just because they were drafted the same year doesn't mean anything. The Lions have NOTHING to do with the Texans.Exactly! When someone says "Stats don't lie." You have ot take every position on that team into consideration...even field position. Stats do lie if your looking for a real answer. The only way you could compare them is if they were on the same team.

Spoda
03-20-2006, 02:17 PM
some of these arguments just don't make sense.....how can anyone tell if carr is trash or not? we all watched the same games...we all know about the 3 second buzzer in practice..maybe the dumbest idea ever...we all know that the passing game relied on 3 yd outs and audibles only to run left...the one thing i did notice was that when the signal calling was given to carr he had the highest scoring best half of the year...and in the second half when our offensive line coach promoted to offensive coordinator took over..we stunk up the joint again...carr may be a problem, i don't know..i know one thing..the people that yelled at carr for throwing a perfect game winning touchdown to corey bradford are gone...oh wait corey didn't catch it because he was trash..i just find it funny when comparing QB stats...you think peyton manning would have succeeded here with AJ out half the year ?

to recap...3yd outs suck..our O-line sucks...we have no NFL caliber TE...our #2 WR bradford was a joke...AJ missed a ton of games..the defense sucked...but it's carr's fault...

like i said carr may be the next joey but who knows until we do something about the rest of the team

kbourda
03-20-2006, 02:40 PM
Hey I'm just listing stats (and the truth is in 04 Carr was one of the best QBs going down the stretch and in crunch time. As far as the Oline, they were a hell of a lot better in 04 then they were in 05, so I really don't know what your trying to get at. Also I'm not trying to suggest all of Carr's successes is a direct result of what he did, so I don't understand what your trying to suggest. Like I've stated MANY TIMES, its a team effort and when we went 2-14 it was because we stunk it up as a team. It's funny how when Carr does good some people say "Its because the team did good (which is true), but when he or the team does bad they say, "Carr is the reason why this team sucks" and try to blame everthing on him, newsflash this whole team sucked last year, from the coaching on down.

Giving yourself a bunch of rope, eh.

Carr Bombed
03-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Really? How many yards did he have in the second half of the Green Bay game when they had a chance to win the game? If I remember correctly, they did not pick up a single first down in the 4th quarter of that game. And that's just one example... I can find plenty more.

Its good that you bring up the Green Bay game, because that game illustrates how conservitive Capers can lose a ball game. Get a lead early on then sit on it. I have most of the Texans games on tape and this has been the biggest problem that has cost us wins and is one of the reasons why I want to see what this team can do under a new system.

Carr Bombed
03-20-2006, 04:06 PM
Giving yourself a bunch of rope, eh. If by rope you mean not agreeing with someone who states the team "doesn't care winning, but rather public sentiment", or not wanting to admit wrong doing, then yeah I'll take some more rope.

TheOgre
03-20-2006, 04:28 PM
It is still a mystery why/how Carr performed so well those 7 games but not so well before or after. It is also a fact that this team will not succeed if Carr's performace mirrors his last 25 games, but here's hoping that the future is bright!:drool:

I've mentioned this about a dozen times, but for dramatic effect I will make it a "lucky 13". The first 6 games of 2004, the Texans played the Who's Who of horrible pass defenses. Detroit was the only one in the bunch that wasn't in the bottom quarter of the league, and they were still in the bottom half. We followed that up by playing teams with either a good pass-rush or a nice pass defense the majority of the other 9-10 games. While this doesn't totally account for the drastic difference in first half/second half stats. It is a good reason for it.

phan1
03-20-2006, 05:57 PM
In terms of staff, I haven't seen anyone disliking Carr. The big head of the organiztion and the ones that were brought in all like him. Reeves, Kubiak, McNair have all been pretty high on Carr. I just hope that they're high on him for reasons other than he's a great guy, because he's been nothing but a class act since he came to Houston. Now, let's hope he can get this offense running.

tsip
03-20-2006, 07:11 PM
I've mentioned this about a dozen times, but for dramatic effect I will make it a "lucky 13". The first 6 games of 2004, the Texans played the Who's Who of horrible pass defenses. Detroit was the only one in the bunch that wasn't in the bottom quarter of the league, and they were still in the bottom half. We followed that up by playing teams with either a good pass-rush or a nice pass defense the majority of the other 9-10 games. While this doesn't totally account for the drastic difference in first half/second half stats. It is a good reason for it.

Sorry, but you miss by main point--Carr looked good for 7 games and then bad in the next 25 games so far, not counting his horrible '05 pre-season. I'm sure-somewhere in those 25 games-there were a t least a couple teams with either a bad pass-rush or a bad pass defense, but I could be wrong...

Bubbajwp
03-20-2006, 07:23 PM
Sorry, but you miss by main point--Carr looked good for 7 games and then bad in the next 25 games so far, not counting his horrible '05 pre-season. I'm sure-somewhere in those 25 games-there were a t least a couple teams with either a bad pass-rush or a bad pass defense, but I could be wrong...
Im think somewhere in those 25 games we had a bad pass rush and a bad run defense and a bad oline and a bunch of WR that cant catch and no decent TE and you know what I think im on to somthing. AAAAhaaaaa thats it. FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT. Our team sucked last year.

Bubbajwp
03-20-2006, 07:24 PM
Oh and dont tell me you didnt see that coming.

tsip
03-20-2006, 07:53 PM
Im think somewhere in those 25 games we had a bad pass rush and a bad run defense and a bad oline and a bunch of WR that cant catch and no decent TE and you know what I think im on to somthing. AAAAhaaaaa thats it. FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT. Our team sucked last year.

ok, so how do you explain the 7 games prior to the 25 when we looked pretty good and had all the same players?

Roughnecks
03-21-2006, 01:35 AM
Look blame who you won't the bottom line is no one played worth their contracts last year. We lost games every way you could last second blown coverages trying to arm tackle a kick that I do not think I need to explain. Yes DC may have made some bone head moves but face it the guy has ran for his life since we drafted him, when you have to make him take three steps and throw the ball because the rush is on top of him before he can get the ball from center that alone tells you that there is a problem with the Oline not just Carr. Carr had some good games and the reason is the Oline steped it up for that game but come next Sunday it seemed to me they forgot how to block being happy with what the did the week before. Plus with AJ being smothered did not help and going long to him was out of question why because he did not have the time and we the did try DC had to throw off his back foot or on the run so lay off give the guy a break and give him some time as in time to plant his foot and throw the damn ball.

Malloy
03-21-2006, 01:36 AM
stats don`t lie Look at the 3 QB`s Stats:


Statistics lie all the time.

the wonger need food
03-21-2006, 07:38 AM
ok, so how do you explain the 7 games prior to the 25 when we looked pretty good and had all the same players?

It's called regression. Carr was a better QB in 2003 than he is now. But it's probably someone else's fault.... it always is.

bigtex77
03-21-2006, 07:46 AM
Anyone who can look at the hand Carr has been dealt and say that it's entirely his fault is a moron. He has his faults, don't get me wrong, but he has had very little help.

adrianshrev
03-21-2006, 08:06 AM
first off capers tried to build a team with players who would be reserves on other teams and probably wouldn't play at all if u look gaffney is what a 5th rec...bradford isn't much better the oline sucked he didn't try to bring in good fa and continue to build on success he brought in cheap bodies salary cap wise and then coached not to lose... i think that carr holds the ball to long sometimes but i believe kubs and sherman can get him to change i mean think about it kubs changed jake for the better... lets just see how this yr goes... if bad brady comes out next yr... how many of you expect the playoffs this yr?:confused: