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Texans_Chick
03-16-2006, 09:43 PM
On the homepage (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2447)

Carr dropped back while the other players rotated running patterns and playing defensive back. The players have been meeting in the bubble for the past few weeks for around an hour at a time to build their fitness and gain some rhythm before the off-season gets into full swing.

I started working out about a week before Kubiak got hired, Carr said. Ive been in here ever since.

Typically, Carr arrives at the stadium at 6:45 a.m. to lift with strength and conditioning coach Dan Riley before he gets a few reps in with some of the receivers. He follows that routine four days a week, and then rests on Wednesday.

With the new coaching staff in place, Carr has a lot to look forward to. His job now is to make sure hes ready physically for whatever is asked of him.

Were all excited about getting back to work, Carr said. Weve seen the success (the coaches) have had in Denver and the success coach (Gary) Kubiak, coach (Mike) Sherman and coach (Troy) Calhoun have had with quarterbacks. All the guys are excited for me. So Im excited to go out and get going with it.


Nice to see.

Might be a little bit of a puff piece, but given all the anonymous trashing of Carr's work ethic that got a little out of hand during the Draft VY discussions, it is nice to see a little love sent these guys' way.

I really hope it ends up working well for Carr (and also for us fans, of course). It would be a nice story to see him succeed.:redtowel:

dat_boy_yec
03-16-2006, 09:49 PM
I hope all our receivers are working out with him. They need the work for sure.

sprtsfanatic
03-16-2006, 09:54 PM
saw the article on the homepage and found it intersting to say the least. Texans Chic has a good point about the reference to Carrs work ethic...so far that doesnt seem to be a problem or an issue...getting to work at 0645 4 times a week for lifting, conditioning, and some practice in the bubble sure doesnt seem like a work ethic issue to me...good things could be ahead for us!

Carr Bombed
03-16-2006, 10:20 PM
I hope all our receivers are working out with him. They need the work for sure. What do you mean all two of them, :) . He's going to need to practice with the practice squad and of course Mathis.

YoungTexanFan
03-16-2006, 10:26 PM
saw the article on the homepage and found it intersting to say the least. Texans Chic has a good point about the reference to Carrs work ethic...so far that doesnt seem to be a problem or an issue...getting to work at 0645 4 times a week for lifting, conditioning, and some practice in the bubble sure doesnt seem like a work ethic issue to me...good things could be ahead for us!

Its nice and all, and I believe Carr is our guy and always have, but that is not that big a deal. Most HS football teams follow this kind of dedication during the offseason and summer. Most HS football teams are there at the same time, doing the same stuff, and then go through 3-a-days. Thats not even getting into the college offseason.

Carr is dedicated I guess, but the entire team is not there. In HS and college, it is REQUIRED you be there. If you miss a practice or are late because of family, its only 200 grassers. (I know)

HoustonFan
03-16-2006, 10:28 PM
Good job. I'm glad that Wong is getting better. Carr is going to be alright despite what some may think. GO TEXANS!!!!!!!!

texan279
03-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Its nice and all, and I believe Carr is our guy and always have, but that is not that big a deal. Most HS football teams follow this kind of dedication during the offseason and summer. Most HS football teams are there at the same time, doing the same stuff, and then go through 3-a-days. Thats not even getting into the college offseason.

Carr is dedicated I guess, but the entire team is not there. In HS and college, it is REQUIRED you be there. If you miss a practice or are late because of family, its only 200 grassers. (I know)

It's a big deal when some around here have been bashing Carr for his work ethic. Maybe it's just me but reading that article towards the end I got kind of tingly being reminded we have Kubiak and Sherman here, I had to pinch myself to make sure I wasn't dreaming...

dtran04
03-16-2006, 10:54 PM
Most important thing I saw was Joppru running and catching. (as long as he doesn't get hurt again.....)

Texans_Chick
03-16-2006, 11:40 PM
This is P.R. at its best. H-Town is p-off at this loosing season, and Carr knows that VY just won the National Title with his teammates. Our city is hungry for a winning team. Last year was an embarrassment and Carr knows that he is in the heat of the fire! Let me see, Babin has more sacks in the last two games of this year then his whole career. Maybe he just finally became healthy or maybe he knew he too was in this fire. It should be a great year, because allot of the pre-madonnas know then heat is on, and our city eats, breathes, and sleeps football. Loosing is not an option, and it we have to bring in a winner to take their spots I say go get em Charley C., but for crying out loud, commending a loosing QB for being in the bubble after a 2 win season is a joke.


So what, it is a puff piece.

There have been month and months of the guys in the newspapers obliquely suggesting that "some" believe that Carr has been babied and doesn't work hard enough. Anytime in the paper they make a non-referenced gossipy mention of "some think", it is a chickensheet way of trying to make a point with no real facts. And it got more gossipy after VY was talked about as a possible first pick.

I don't know if it is true or not, but I personally don't care for that sort of reporting. It puts the players in a bad spot because they can't really respond to it or prove it differently because it makes them sound whiney or defensive responding to unsourced, sideways sorts of insults tossed in their general direction.

So let the Texans puff away at will. I am a sucker for these sorts of articles--I know it is just PR but I like to hear the guys being excited about a new season. And dangit, if the Texans PR folk don't defend their players, who the heck will?



As a really random aside, the phrase "pre-madonna's" really cracks me up. Makes me think of next season and possible positive uplifting theme songs for different players (let's sing along shall we......):cool:



David Carr: "Like a virgin, untouched for the very time......."

Chester Pitts: "You can turn this world around
And bring back all of those happy days
Put your troubles down
It's time to celebrate"

Dominick Davis: "I've got the moves baby, you got the motion
If we got together we'd be causing a commotion"

Reggie Bush: "Just like a prayer, I'll take you there
It's like a dream to me"

Andre Johnson: "You must be my Lucky Star
'Cause you make the darkness seem so far
And when I'm lost you'll be my guide
I just turn around and you're by my side"

Dunta Robinson: "Give me faith give me joy, my boy
I will always cherish you"

Jason Babin: "Gimme one more chance
Tell me that it's not too late
Let me win your love"

Phillip Buchanon: "Don't just stand there, let's get to it
Strike a pose, there's nothing to it. Vogue, vogue"

Gary Kubiak: "It's all brand new, I'm crazy for you
And you know it's true
I'm crazy, crazy for you"



OK, I think I just injured myself with that.

2 CENTS
03-16-2006, 11:53 PM
My CARR works out everyday that I drive it but it still doesn't KNOW HOW TO STUDY FILM. That is what he needs to do and he doesn't according to some talk show Hosts I heard last year. No DOUBT CARR has the TALLENT and Can Play but if he doesn't watch FILM he will never be able to STAY OFF HIS BUTT. Of Course most of that I BLAME on the COACHING STAFF because they didn't MAKE HIM WATCH FILM. Instead they let him go home and Play with his KIDS.
2 CENTS OUT

Nighthawk
03-16-2006, 11:57 PM
On the homepage (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2447)
Might be a little bit of a puff piece, but given all the anonymous trashing of Carr's work ethic that got a little out of hand during the Draft VY discussions, it is nice to see a little love sent these guys' way.

This is Carr. Good heavens.

“We’re all excited about getting back to work,” Carr said. “We’ve seen the success (the coaches) have had in Denver and the success coach (Gary) Kubiak, coach (Mike) Sherman and coach (Troy) Calhoun have had with quarterbacks. All the guys are excited for me."

tulexan
03-17-2006, 12:06 AM
This is Carr. Good heavens.

Were all excited about getting back to work, Carr said. Weve seen the success (the coaches) have had in Denver and the success coach (Gary) Kubiak, coach (Mike) Sherman and coach (Troy) Calhoun have had with quarterbacks. All the guys are excited for me."


Do you know that they aren't? Or are you just speculating because you don't like him?

Texans_Chick
03-17-2006, 12:12 AM
This is Carr. Good heavens.

Were all excited about getting back to work, Carr said. Weve seen the success (the coaches) have had in Denver and the success coach (Gary) Kubiak, coach (Mike) Sherman and coach (Troy) Calhoun have had with quarterbacks. All the guys are excited for me."


Parse parse parse parse and parse. To get every word you say analyzed a million ways must be really weird.

You know what? I bet that is just an honest statement. I bet they are all excited that he will have some coaching from folks who have had a lot of QB success. Heck, I'm excited for him too.

Dude has an arm and was stuck throwing hitches all last season in an ultra-conservative training wheel offense that let folks tee off on him because they knew he wasn't throwing deep. Even if you aren't his biggest fan, you had to feel for him in that scheme.

Relatedly......

It is much better to go through life looking for the best in people than searching for the worst.

thegr8fan
03-17-2006, 12:20 AM
Were all excited about getting back to work, Carr said. Weve seen the success (the coaches) have had in Denver and the success coach (Gary) Kubiak, coach (Mike) Sherman and coach (Troy) Calhoun have had with quarterbacks. All the guys are excited for me." I read that and take it to mean that "All the guys are excited for me".....TO FINALLY START LEARNING HOW TO PLAY IN THE NFL AND PERHAPS LOOK LIKE A NFL STARTING QB.

considering his abysmal flop of a career so far I can well understand his teammates excitement at the prospect of Carr improving.

and TexansChick, thanks for the laughs. your song lyrics were hilarious. :redtowel:

texan279
03-17-2006, 02:46 AM
I read that and take it to mean that "All the guys are excited for me".....TO FINALLY START LEARNING HOW TO PLAY IN THE NFL AND PERHAPS LOOK LIKE A NFL STARTING QB.

considering his abysmal flop of a career so far I can well understand his teammates excitement at the prospect of Carr improving.

and TexansChick, thanks for the laughs. your song lyrics were hilarious. :redtowel:

Flop of career? The last 2 seasons, Carr has completed more than 60% of his passes and thrown for more TD's than INT's. Considering the horrible coaching/playcalling, lack of offensive weapons, and a non existent offensive line, doesn't really seem that bad to me. Out of the QB's in the NFL last season who played in all 16 games, only 7 completed more than 60% of their passes and threw for more TD's than INT's, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Trent Green, Jake Plummer, and David Carr.

SESupergenius
03-17-2006, 06:45 AM
Where's Joe Texan and his "sources close to the team" on this one. I guess they failed to let him know that Carr does all of this IN THE OFF SEASON.

Grid
03-17-2006, 07:18 AM
Flop of career? The last 2 seasons, Carr has completed more than 60% of his passes and thrown for more TD's than INT's. Considering the horrible coaching/playcalling, lack of offensive weapons, and a non existent offensive line, doesn't really seem that bad to me. Out of the QB's in the NFL last season who played in all 16 games, only 7 completed more than 60% of their passes and threw for more TD's than INT's, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Trent Green, Jake Plummer, and David Carr.

:redtowel:

Marcus
03-17-2006, 08:09 AM
Just when I think I'm about to gag hanging around this stale cauldron of negativity, along comes Texans_Chick with a breath of fresh air.

:highfive:

Maddict5
03-17-2006, 08:11 AM
So what, it is a puff piece.

There have been month and months of the guys in the newspapers obliquely suggesting that "some" believe that Carr has been babied and doesn't work hard enough. Anytime in the paper they make a non-referenced gossipy mention of "some think", it is a chickensheet way of trying to make a point with no real facts. And it got more gossipy after VY was talked about as a possible first pick.


2/3 posts later...


My CARR works out everyday that I drive it but it still doesn't KNOW HOW TO STUDY FILM. That is what he needs to do and he doesn't according to some talk show Hosts I heard last year. No DOUBT CARR has the TALLENT and Can Play but if he doesn't watch FILM he will never be able to STAY OFF HIS BUTT. Of Course most of that I BLAME on the COACHING STAFF because they didn't MAKE HIM WATCH FILM. Instead they let him go home and Play with his KIDS.
2 CENTS OUT

you couldn't make this stuff up:redtowel:

Marcus
03-17-2006, 08:21 AM
2/3 posts later...

you couldn't make this stuff up:redtowel:
lol: (I wish I could take a pair of pliers, and yank that fricken all-caps key out of that dude's keyboard)

___________________________

real
03-17-2006, 08:38 AM
Flop of career? The last 2 seasons, Carr has completed more than 60% of his passes and thrown for more TD's than INT's. Considering the horrible coaching/playcalling, lack of offensive weapons, and a non existent offensive line, doesn't really seem that bad to me. Out of the QB's in the NFL last season who played in all 16 games, only 7 completed more than 60% of their passes and threw for more TD's than INT's, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Trent Green, Jake Plummer, and David Carr.
So are you saying that those are the only guys that are better than Carr....???

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 08:55 AM
Typical piece that you see during the Spring. David Carr and work ethic are not an issue. The issue is that the guy has only won 16 games in his NFL career and we pay him like he is a QB for a team that averaged 10 wins a game per year or we pay him like he puts up good numbers on a bad team.

David Carr being a good QB in the last four years is an urban legend that Snopes would claim as false.

Joe Texan
03-17-2006, 08:58 AM
Oh you summoned me.

Davey jumped up and started to do something cause Gary was coming to town and he knew his future rode on doing exactly what Gary wanted.
Good for Carr to be doing that in the offseason but does he know how the corners react in Dallas this season, Nope I doubt it cause he is too good to study that. I will be happy to see progress on Davids part cause it has been a long time coming.

Were all excited about getting back to work, Carr said. Weve seen the success (the coaches) have had in Denver and the success coach (Gary) Kubiak, coach (Mike) Sherman and coach (Troy) Calhoun have had with quarterbacks. All the guys are excited for me."


Now this just sounds like a freshman in high school, come on man, David, Your making millions and the leader of this team, reach down and grab some.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 09:01 AM
Carr could give a flying freak what anyone says or does, trust me.

Believe it or not he has done nothing different in his work ethic he has always been there working.

Does anyone have the definition of insanity lying around?

touttail
03-17-2006, 09:03 AM
TC-I can't sing-LOL

A problem I have with Carr is: I've heard of him being at home watching game film while the rest of the team is at the stadium looking at film. I understand he has a family-so does other players. This should be a team thing!!! Could make a difference of his "not being a leader"!

Don't feel that many has questioned his toughness of work ethic-just him zoning in on one WR.

Hopefully, AJ is there working with him. They need to be peanut butter and jelly-like Manning and Harrison!!!

Bobby 119C:twocents:

chuckm
03-17-2006, 09:03 AM
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't ... Bart Simpson

Texans_Chick
03-17-2006, 09:17 AM
David Carr being a good QB in the last four years is an urban legend that Snopes would claim as false.

Actually, I think the Snopes people would say that that is "undetermined" or "unverifiable."

Given the players around him and the scheme he was in, there is no telling if he was doing the best he could do in a bad situation or if he was just not a good QB.

Peyton Manning is considered by most people as a good QB. There has always been the message bored debate of whether even a Peyton Manning could survive being the starting QB of the Houston Texans since its inception.

So do we have a good QB or a lump of coal? I don't know. But the Texans staff are making the bet that we have a good QB, so I am gonna go with that for now.

Porky
03-17-2006, 09:18 AM
As one who has dogged his work ethic in the past, I am glad to see this. He is there bright and early most mornings working out. Hey, how can that be a bad thing? Some people with an agenda are just looking to bash the guy regardless. Sure, it's a fluff piece, but how can you bash the guy for coming in on his own time, and working out? I don't get it. I don't have an agenda. My opinion is based on what I see and hear, and I let the facts lead me wherever they will. This is an encouraging day, and I wish for once folks would call a spade a spade. Quit bashing our players when they do something positive folks. :challenge

Texans_Chick
03-17-2006, 09:25 AM
I really didn't intend to start a trash DC yet again thread.

If you want to go there, we can shorten this thread with the DCSDS:

Link: One of my old favorite posts. :) (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=265281&postcount=30)

So 3, maybe 2, but give the guy a break.

Buffi2
03-17-2006, 09:35 AM
Quit bashing our players when they do something positive folks.

Agree. Enough negativity fellow Texan fans.:) Fluff piece? Sure. But this does show that the players are trying to turn things around by working out before it is required. The time has come for we fans to do the same thing - well, maybe not lifting weights - support these guys until we have a solid reason not to. That reason won't even begin to show itself until the regular season starts.

I, for one, am willing to begin anew by not only hoping for the best but expecting it. These next few months should be most exciting. Let's enjoy the show without bashing players. We've seen and heard enough Texan bashing to last a lifetime.:twocents:

BTW - thanks, Texans Chick - your optimism and humor brighten the day.
Go Texans!

jerek
03-17-2006, 09:36 AM
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't ... Bart Simpson

So what, it is a puff piece.

There have been month and months of the guys in the newspapers obliquely suggesting that "some" believe that Carr has been babied and doesn't work hard enough. Anytime in the paper they make a non-referenced gossipy mention of "some think", it is a chickensheet way of trying to make a point with no real facts. And it got more gossipy after VY was talked about as a possible first pick.

I don't know if it is true or not, but I personally don't care for that sort of reporting. It puts the players in a bad spot because they can't really respond to it or prove it differently because it makes them sound whiney or defensive responding to unsourced, sideways sorts of insults tossed in their general direction.

So let the Texans puff away at will. I am a sucker for these sorts of articles--I know it is just PR but I like to hear the guys being excited about a new season. And dangit, if the Texans PR folk don't defend their players, who the heck will?

I don't too often agree with Texans Chick (though I always like the writing and read) but I wanted to make it a point to mention it here. Too many people on this board have sloppily gobbled down every last morsel of "Carr sucks," whick 99% of the time is some anonymous jackass quoting some anonymous source close to the team that some anonymous teammates are unhappy with Carr's lack of "work ethic." For the moment I will ignore the often strong correlation between "Carr sucks" and "Vince will father my child" and address the article for what it is.

Carr is one of the hardest working guys on the team, always has been and always will be. It's one thing to review his tape, watch his game, and question his skills: that alone is at least based on verifiable evidence, though we may choose to interpet it differently. It is another entirely to whine about how he is "soft" or a "baby" or my favorite "preacher man," when you have not the first clue about what his practice or off-field work ethic is really like.

Of course this particular piece is a little bit of a "PR manuever:" do you think the Texans are going to talk about what sucks on their website? (outside of AJ's VOF column) PR or no, though, of course the Vincers (and by that, I mean the "Vince or die" guys, not the steady few that call the guy for what he is) will pitch a fit about how the Texans are just trying to put an acceptable shine on the guy.

Which is it? The guy is working hard "now," and all of a sudden, it's just PR, but when no one reports on his practice habits, clearly, he's a slacker and a fraud.

Your real agenda is painfully apparent.

infantrycak
03-17-2006, 09:40 AM
A problem I have with Carr is: I've heard of him being at home watching game film while the rest of the team is at the stadium looking at film.

At least get the rumor straight so you can judge whether to criticize him. The rumor was Carr didn't stay late to watch extra game film not that he missed any of the scheduled events for watching film determined by the coaches. In addition to the regularly scheduled sessions there was talk that Carr watched game film at home rather than at the stadium. Now if that is still a source of criticism, fine--it happens to be exactly what Ray Lewis has been lauded for on NFL Films.

By the way, this working out extra in the off-season is not a new thing. Carr was noted for exactly the same thing in between the 2002 and 2003 seasons when he came back much more cut and went from his drafted weight of 230 lbs to his current 220 lbs.

Buffi2
03-17-2006, 09:41 AM
So 3, maybe 2, but give the guy a break.

I'll play! A probable 2 - possibly a 1 - we will have to wait and see.:texflag:

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 09:42 AM
As one who has dogged his work ethic in the past, I am glad to see this. He is there bright and early most mornings working out. Hey, how can that be a bad thing? Some people with an agenda are just looking to bash the guy regardless. Sure, it's a fluff piece, but how can you bash the guy for coming in on his own time, and working out? I don't get it. I don't have an agenda. My opinion is based on what I see and hear, and I let the facts lead me wherever they will. This is an encouraging day, and I wish for once folks would call a spade a spade. Quit bashing our players when they do something positive folks. :challenge

I think we have been on the same side of this issue, but the negativity I believe that is felt on this board is between the posters who inflate the image of Carr and there are those of us who try to bring Carr's image back to the level that he actually he is and that is average.

Carr will have a changed team and a new coach and most importantly he is our QB next year. But to allow people to go unchecked in saying he is one of the top QBs in the game is undeserved at the moment.

infantrycak
03-17-2006, 09:51 AM
I think we have been on the same side of this issue, but the negativity I believe that is felt on this board is between the posters who inflate the image of Carr and there are those of us who try to bring Carr's image back to the level that he actually he is and that is average.

Really, the options are (a) people who inflate Carr and (b) people who try to bring back his image to average? I'd say that right there demonstrates a lack of objectivity. Seriously, there is no group (c) people who hack on Carr and make things up? Is "Carr is a whiny California boy concerned about his hair" an attempt to bring things back to reality? Is attributing a win to Banks when he left the game losing an attempt to bring things back to reality?

touttail
03-17-2006, 09:52 AM
At least get the rumor straight so you can judge whether to criticize him. The rumor was Carr didn't stay late to watch extra game film not that he missed any of the scheduled events for watching film determined by the coaches. In addition to the regularly scheduled sessions there was talk that Carr watched game film at home rather than at the stadium. Now if that is still a source of criticism, fine--it happens to be exactly what Ray Lewis has been lauded for on NFL Films.
By the way, this working out extra in the off-season is not a new thing. Carr was noted for exactly the same thing in between the 2002 and 2003 seasons when he came back much more cut and went from his drafted weight of 230 lbs to his current 220 lbs.


Guess I stand corrected on the Carr "film" rumor.

At least Ray Lewis can "walk the walk"! Big difference in a mediocre QB and a ProBowl LB.

Bobby 119C

jerek
03-17-2006, 09:56 AM
Really, the options are (a) people who inflate Carr and (b) people who try to bring back his image to average? I'd say that right there demonstrates a lack of objectivity. Seriously, there is no group (c) people who hack on Carr and make things up? Is "Carr is a whiny California boy concerned about his hair" an attempt to bring things back to reality? Is attributing a win to Banks when he left the game losing an attempt to bring things back to reality?

I'll take (C).

The hackers are about 90% of the critics on this board, and unfortunately, by far the most vocal/repetitive.

Guys like KT, Vinny, Arlington, and I am sure others I am leaving out - just the names that I have battled with the most - may be repetitive, but at least their arguments are credibly defended. They can rightfully call themselves B-ers.

Texans_Chick
03-17-2006, 09:56 AM
But to allow people to go unchecked in saying he is one of the top QBs in the game is undeserved at the moment.

I don't think that anyone was saying that he was one of the top QBs in the game. This was the quote about his ability in this thread:

Flop of career? The last 2 seasons, Carr has completed more than 60% of his passes and thrown for more TD's than INT's. Considering the horrible coaching/playcalling, lack of offensive weapons, and a non existent offensive line, doesn't really seem that bad to me. Out of the QB's in the NFL last season who played in all 16 games, only 7 completed more than 60% of their passes and threw for more TD's than INT's, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Trent Green, Jake Plummer, and David Carr.

Basically, it is a factual statistic with an added comment that given the tools around him, a. he isn't a career flop, and b. "doesn't really seem that bad".

I kinda liked the info because I like reasons for optimism to counterbalance the 2-14 stuff.

But ultimately, this is just a little parsing. I think we are agreeing more than we are not. :cool:

infantrycak
03-17-2006, 09:59 AM
Guess I stand corrected on the Carr "film" rumor.

At least Ray Lewis can "walk the walk"! Big difference in a mediocre QB and a ProBowl LB.

Bobby 119C

No there is zero difference for this issue. If it is a good work habit for a player then it is a good work habit. By your rule it is definitional--everything Carr does is wrong because he is mediocre. That doesn't work. You define what is good and apply it, not decide you want to criticize a person and say whatever they do is wrong.

infantrycak
03-17-2006, 10:02 AM
I'll take (C).

The hackers are about 90% of the critics on this board, and unfortunately, by far the most vocal/repetitive.

Guys like KT, Vinny, Arlington, and I am sure others I am leaving out - just the names that I have battled with the most - may be repetitive, but at least their arguments are credibly defended. They can rightfully call themselves B-ers.

I would actually change the categories slightly to (a) people who inflate Carr, (b) people who attempt to objectively view Carr but can obviously reach different conclusions and (c) people who try to hack Carr. We have people in every one of those categories on the MB.

Runner
03-17-2006, 10:04 AM
Agree. Enough negativity fellow Texan fans.:)

Does that mean I can change my signature? I put this one in so I'd fit in around here.

Runner
03-17-2006, 10:13 AM
The thing I don't like about a piece like this is they tend to show the players we are used to seeing (Joppru excluded in that one!). However, there are just as many back-ups working their butts off here during the off-season as big name guys. Where's the love? Otherwise, it's a nice article.

Here is a question. We have many players who fly out after the last game of the season and don't return until they have to. Many of these work out just as hard or harder on their own. Miami players all seem to go back to the U and work out together, for instance.

What does everyone think of that? Especially if the player is in a skill position that requires precise timing and communication with others that are here working out with the team?

Texans Horror
03-17-2006, 10:15 AM
So do we have a good QB or a lump of coal? I don't know. But the Texans staff are making the bet that we have a good QB, so I am gonna go with that for now.


Are you kidding, Texans Chick? What would Mike Sherman and Kubiak know of great quarterbacks? It's not like they've worked with Steve Young, Brett Favre, or John Elway. Oh, wait...maybe they do know something about good quarterbacks...

touttail
03-17-2006, 10:18 AM
No there is zero difference for this issue. If it is a good work habit for a player then it is a good work habit. By your rule it is definitional--everything Carr does is wrong because he is mediocre. That doesn't work. You define what is good and apply it, not decide you want to criticize a person and say whatever they do is wrong.


Zero difference???
When Carr makes the Pro Bowl, then I will call it "no difference" in who does or does not watch game film.

So you are critizing me for calling Carr mediocre. Guess he's now an all star?
Like Dr. Phil said, "just calling a spade a shovel". Guess to me he will always be mediocre until he proves otherwise.

I do think he will improve this year. Hopefully we will have a wide open offense, no turmoil with Offensive coaching, and no musical chairs with linemen! Hoping he won't be running for his life, having more time to look at more than one WR, or lying on the ground.

Bobby 119C

Runner
03-17-2006, 10:20 AM
Are you kidding, Texans Chick? What would Mike Sherman and Kubiak know of great quarterbacks? It's not like they've worked with Steve Young, Brett Favre, or John Elway. Oh, wait...maybe they do know something about good quarterbacks...

As it's been explained to me a couple of times, anyone who hasn't sat in section XXX of every Texan game has no possibility of knowing what the Texans need.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 10:21 AM
We can all agree that he is our QB next year, I think we can all agree that if Kubiak and Sherman can't get Carr on the right path then no one can, I think we can all agree that his contract has been the biggest cap hit on our team and may be slightly lower than AJ's this year.

We all want results. Some of us hypothesize on where this organization has gone wrong - Capers, Casserly, Boselli, Babin, PBuch, Joe Texan, Glenn and Sharper being released. Throw a rock in the bubble and you are going to hit a culpable person. Carr is the face of the franchise the first pick we have ever had. Some of our fans are more Carr fans than Texans fans or just like the guy whether it is the off the field or on the field persona. I look at Carr in one way, he makes to much money within the finite budget we have to put together the best team possible. That money is needed to invest into the weapons or resources to make him a more effective player. I have always said that if he was paid more for his output I would have no problem with us at the QB position.

I am not so much an anti Carr guy as I am a pro journeyman QB guy. QB's are a commodity more than ever within the salary cap era.

Honoring Earl 34
03-17-2006, 10:22 AM
The best comparrison for the Texans is the Lions . We picked Carr 1st , they took Joey 3rd . The next year they took WR . Rogers 2nd and we took AJ 3rd .

The Lions have givin up on Joey , but will remain a bad team . They picked a WR in the first round three years in a row . Those picks might have been better used building a balanced team but Joeys is the scapegoat .

The Texans have givin Carr another chance . This is good because like the Lions the Texans Front Office and Coaches have been worse than any player on the roster .

infantrycak
03-17-2006, 10:23 AM
Zero difference???
When Carr makes the Pro Bowl, then I will call it "no difference" in who does or does not watch game film.

So you are critizing me for calling Carr mediocre. Guess he's now an all star?
Like Dr. Phil said, "just calling a spade a shovel". Guess to me he will always be mediocre until he proves otherwise.

Seriously read back thru there and quote something where I am critical of you for calling Carr mediocre. Carr has been mediocre so far. My point was to pick a consistant standard for reviewing what he and other people do, i.e. something like either viewing film at home is good or bad, either way and then apply it.

Frills
03-17-2006, 10:29 AM
Ray Ray is a superb leader, knows when to lie to cops and cover up murders...just the right sort of player we'd want...to compare DC to Prisoner 4023567 is a disgrace.

footballguy69
03-17-2006, 10:30 AM
Hey Chick, I agree. It is time for people to start jumping on the "Positive" Texans bandwagon than all the negative bullsheet. So....if our guys are working out getting ready for the season, lets look at it as a good thing not as a "Well, so what!". Nice work on the Madonna thing!

touttail
03-17-2006, 10:31 AM
We can all agree that he is our QB next year, I think we can all agree that if Kubiak and Sherman can't get Carr on the right path then no one can, I think we can all agree that his contract has been the biggest cap hit on our team and may be slightly lower than AJ's this year.

We all want results. Some of us hypothesize on where this organization has gone wrong - Capers, Casserly, Boselli, Babin, PBuch, Joe Texan, Glenn and Sharper being released. Throw a rock in the bubble and you are going to hit a culpable person. Carr is the face of the franchise the first pick we have ever had. Some of our fans are more Carr fans than Texans fans or just like the guy whether it is the off the field or on the field persona. I look at Carr in one way, he makes to much money within the finite budget we have to put together the best team possible. That money is needed to invest into the weapons or resources to make him a more effective player. I have always said that if he was paid more for his output I would have no problem with us at the QB position.

I am not so much an anti Carr guy as I am a pro journeyman QB guy. QB's are a commodity more than ever within the salary cap era.

I totally agree with you KT.
I think Carr will be a better player and this team will be better with the coaching changes this year. More team excitement, more open offense, new ideas, new faces, etc.
I spend close to $1600.00 ever year with the Texans for season tickets and parking. I did renew my season tickets this year. Does this make me an expert, no. But please don't tell me that I can't critize, vent and speak my feelings about Texan players.
My wife will vouch for this, I came home hoarse every home game, from yelling for this team and will continue to.

Bobby 119C

jerek
03-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Ray Ray is a superb leader, knows when to lie to cops and cover up murders...just the right sort of player we'd want...to compare DC to Prisoner 4023567 is a disgrace.

Wow, the double standard is alive and well.

I too can see the strong correlation between NFL success, watching film at home, and murder charges. What were we thinking about? It's been there all along.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 10:36 AM
to compare DC to Prisoner 4023567 is a disgrace.

It is a disgrace to compare him to fictional characters such as Prisoner 4023567, the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause and a top 10 QB in the NFL.

touttail
03-17-2006, 10:43 AM
No there is zero difference for this issue. If it is a good work habit for a player then it is a good work habit. By your rule it is definitional--everything Carr does is wrong because he is mediocre. That doesn't work. You define what is good and apply it, not decide you want to criticize a person and say whatever they do is wrong.

Maybe I took this wrong and if so I do appolige!

Bobby 119C

bigTEXan8
03-17-2006, 10:48 AM
Man...this is like politics. Nothing Carr does is right. Geez...in fantasy, stats show up like this, and then the reactions (just playing around...and didn't sleep much last night:

Carr - 300yds passing, 2 TDs, 30+ rush yds

reaction

You suck Carr!!!

VY - 5yds passing, 2 INTs, 40+ rush yds w/ 2 fumbles

reaction

VY is God's gift to football....yeah

Texans Horror
03-17-2006, 10:49 AM
Here is a question. We have many players who fly out after the last game of the season and don't return until they have to. Many of these work out just as hard or harder on their own. Miami players all seem to go back to the U and work out together, for instance.

What does everyone think of that? Especially if the player is in a skill position that requires precise timing and communication with others that are here working out with the team?

The U is known for having the most bad-*** workout rooms around, and obviously, competing with players of equal or greater talent is great for Dre. But, I think Dre and Edge should be in their respective training camps. This is not a BS year. New coach, new system, and we need to launch out of a cannon a couple of balls at Dre so that he can catch better. It seemed to work his second year, when he went to the Pro Bowl. Dre does not play with the University of Miami anymore. He plays with Houston and needs to practice in Houston.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 10:51 AM
Man...this is like politics. Nothing Carr does is right. Geez...in fantasy, stats show up like this, and then the reactions (just playing around...and didn't sleep much last night:

Carr - 300yds passing, 2 TDs, 30+ rush yds

reaction

You suck Carr!!!

VY - 5yds passing, 2 INTs, 40+ rush yds w/ 2 fumbles

reaction

VY is God's gift to football....yeah


That is what I was looking for

Texans Horror
03-17-2006, 10:51 AM
Wow, the double standard is alive and well.

I too can see the strong correlation between NFL success, watching film at home, and murder charges. What were we thinking about? It's been there all along.

It's called "football psychology." Urban Dictionary describes it as:

To play a football player no matter how bad a criminal offense the player committed. This was a strategy started by Tom Osborne at the University of Nebraska. It has since caught on by other programs though and is a common way to work out social problems and a troubled past of football players.

Runner
03-17-2006, 10:55 AM
The U is known for having the most bad-*** workout rooms around, and obviously, competing with players of equal or greater talent is great for Dre. But, I think Dre and Edge should be in their respective training camps. This is not a BS year. New coach, new system, and we need to launch out of a cannon a couple of balls at Dre so that he can catch better. It seemed to work his second year, when he went to the Pro Bowl. Dre does not play with the University of Miami anymore. He plays with Houston and needs to practice in Houston.

Oops - I assume these players will be at all the required stuff: coaches sessions, training camps, next week's workouts, etc. I don't mean to imply they slack in that area.

I meant workouts as shown in the article where no one is required to be there. Carr is working with some of his receivers, but not all of them. If this is expected of Carr, what about everyone else, especially other high dollar players?

By the way, I didn't mention Dre did I? I just used the U as an example. :spy:

Texans Horror
03-17-2006, 11:29 AM
Oops - I assume these players will be at all the required stuff: coaches sessions, training camps, next week's workouts, etc. I don't mean to imply they slack in that area.

I meant workouts as shown in the article where no one is required to be there. Carr is working with some of his receivers, but not all of them. If this is expected of Carr, what about everyone else, especially other high dollar players?

By the way, I didn't mention Dre did I? I just used the U as an example. :spy:

I'm not trying to say that Dre isn't showing up at the required meetings. I'm sure he is. And you won't hear me calling him a slacker. But when it comes to Dre and Edge going to the "U" for winter workouts (He, Edge, and a few others are pretty infamous for that, so that's why I assumed you meant him), they need to be with their respective teams. Edge has a new team and new QB. Dre has a new coaching staff/system, and needs to work on catching some balls as well as perfect pick-up games of basketball with other skill players.

bigTEXan8
03-17-2006, 11:39 AM
That is what I was looking for

Like I said, I was just joking, but at the same time, I'm serious. Nothing he does is going to be right.

Ibar_Harry
03-17-2006, 12:10 PM
I'm not trying to say that Dre isn't showing up at the required meetings. I'm sure he is. And you won't hear me calling him a slacker. But when it comes to Dre and Edge going to the "U" for winter workouts (He, Edge, and a few others are pretty infamous for that, so that's why I assumed you meant him), they need to be with their respective teams. Edge has a new team and new QB. Dre has a new coaching staff/system, and needs to work on catching some balls as well as perfect pick-up games of basketball with other skill players.

I've commented on this before and last year AJ and Carr spent some time together, but not that much. I also stated given the coaching staff I wasn't so certain that it wasn't a bad thing that he spent time at the U. He probably learned more there than he did in Houston.

However, for a vaunted relationship between receiver and qb, like manning-harrison, you have to spend a lot of time together in order to have the magic of that kind of relationship. Despite what some think it can not be done in TC. It requires a huge number of off time hourse dedicated to nothing more than throwing and throwing and throwing. You have to know what each other is thinking like the back of your hand. I have always been critical of that part of AJ's game. Now Carr, can't leave and go to the U, so it will be up to AJ to come to Carr. That's a reality of the new coaches and the new system.

In year 2 AJ made a lot of progress at the U, but last year he lost it. Of course so did the whole team. Just as Carr and DD and everyone else is going to be measured so is AJ. It looked like AJ did some pouting last year, but we will never know for certain. I hope that was not the case. I continue to say that AJ is not a number 1 go to receiver at this stage of his career and I don't know whether he will ever be because of his hands. He is a very good receiver with a lot of talent, but his hands remain a question. Rice dropped a lot of balls early in his career, but once he got over it it was Katty bar the door.

I have been wanting to hear from various sources on who was working out together and practicing when it wasn't necessary. Carr has always been a gym freek, so I wanted to hear that he was working with his receivers. The only way this team is going to get better in that area is for them to be on the same page. Carr throws a hard pass and it takes time for receivers to get use to it.

Recievers like Mathis need to work with Carr, because it requires a special timing when someone has that kind of speed. It requires leaning what they can handle and how to get the ball to them. You need to learn how far you can lead them. It's all about timing. Its all about how far in advance you can release the ball and let them go get it. When a receiver like Mathis knows where the ball is going to be thrown, he has a tremendous advantage over the defense.

Do not take lightly that BJ is also one of the receivers working out with Carr. I find that to be very encouraging. Many have pointed out that the TE has been one of the glaring weaknesses of our offense. Any signs of productivity out of BJ and that he will be healthy is a big plus.

Again, I simply remain positive at this point and like a lot of what I see. Of course their are things I don't like, but I'm waiting to see how they are solved. So far they have been solving problems rather than creating them.

hollywood_texan
03-17-2006, 12:17 PM
Flop of career? The last 2 seasons, Carr has completed more than 60% of his passes and thrown for more TD's than INT's. Considering the horrible coaching/playcalling, lack of offensive weapons, and a non existent offensive line, doesn't really seem that bad to me. Out of the QB's in the NFL last season who played in all 16 games, only 7 completed more than 60% of their passes and threw for more TD's than INT's, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Trent Green, Jake Plummer, and David Carr.

All of those quarterbacks have proven they can win football games!

Carr still hasn't dominated in one game in four years and hasn't pulled a come from behind victory.

Maybe he will start winning, but he is running out of time.

mancunian
03-17-2006, 12:20 PM
I hope all our receivers are working out with him. They need the work for sure.
all 3 of them :sarcasm: now that Gaffs and Bradford have gone!!

Runner
03-17-2006, 12:47 PM
There are plenty of targets for practice. From the roster on the Texan home page:

Joppru, Bennie TE
Murphy, Matt TE
Rivers, Marcellus TE
Halterman, Aaron TE
Bruener, Mark TE
Armstrong, Derick WR
Johnson, Andre WR
Starling, Kendrick WR
Morgan, Donovan WR
Mathis, Jerome WR

Ibar_Harry
03-17-2006, 12:50 PM
There are plenty of targets for practice. From the roster on the Texan home page:

Joppru, Bennie TE
Murphy, Matt TE
Rivers, Marcellus TE
Halterman, Aaron TE
Bruener, Mark TE
Armstrong, Derick WR
Johnson, Andre WR
Starling, Kendrick WR
Morgan, Donovan WR
Mathis, Jerome WR

Yes, that's true, but I bet Kubiak would say its up to them to show up. I wonder if there was a little bit of a message in that article as well.....

Runner
03-17-2006, 12:52 PM
I knew it was sarcasm. Just adding additional info.

Ibar_Harry
03-17-2006, 12:56 PM
I knew it was sarcasm. Just adding additional info.

True, but strangely enough there is a lot of truth in what you said. I would think there would be guys out there busting you know what knowing that there are openings. Doesn't seem to be happening right, now. Remember, what Kubiak has said? I would think guys are being evaluated on how interested they are........

mancunian
03-17-2006, 12:57 PM
I knew it was sarcasm. Just adding additional info.

yeah sorry man, sometimes I'm not sure if sarcasm comes across as well when written down.

Runner
03-17-2006, 12:57 PM
yeah sorry man, sometimes I'm not sure if sarcasm comes across as well when written down.

No big deal.

texan279
03-17-2006, 03:46 PM
All of those quarterbacks have proven they can win football games!

Carr still hasn't dominated in one game in four years and hasn't pulled a come from behind victory.

Maybe he will start winning, but he is running out of time.


So QB's win games by themelves now? I guess even though our defense was ranked dead last in the NFL last season and Carr was sacked for more than 400 yards, he should still be out there leading us to 9-10 wins a season...

texan279
03-17-2006, 03:50 PM
So are you saying that those are the only guys that are better than Carr....???

Did I say that? I just stated what Carr has done the last two seasons and posted the only other QB's who did the same to make a point that his career to this point has not been a flop...

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 03:51 PM
So QB's win games by themelves now? I guess even though our defense was ranked dead last in the NFL last season and Carr was sacked for more than 400 yards, he should still be out there leading us to 9-10 wins a season...

Such a circular arguement when you frame it that way. How will you measure Carr in the next two years? What are your expectations?

texan279
03-17-2006, 03:56 PM
Such a circular arguement when you frame it that way. How will you measure Carr in the next two years? What are your expectations?

I honestly have no idea how he'll perform in the next two seasons. I just think it's a little early to run the guy out of town based on our team's record alone especially with the team that has been built around him and the coaching he has had the last 4 seasons.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 04:03 PM
especially with the team that has been built around him and the coaching he has had the last 4 seasons.

Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

wags
03-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

Carr is an average QB in the NFL so he will make a good bit of money. Hell, Milford Brown is getting $2.5 million a year!!! A tight end(Robert Royal) who averages 7 catches a season is making $2 million a year. This is the NFL today.

Texans86
03-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

He gets up play after play when he gets pounded. I think that earns him a little respect around the locker room. The guy is tough and has had very little to work with. There are a few players who got freebies this past season b/c no one really excelled outside of Mathis.

texan279
03-17-2006, 04:12 PM
Yeah, but that could easily be said for other players on this team. What makes the guy so special that we must pay him the jack we do? What tangible things has he done to circle the wagons around him? Ok Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.

Exactly my point, the only one ripped on here is Carr, no one ripped on AJ for dropping all those passes last season or our defense with their God awful play. And is it his fault for what he is paid? And what exactly has AJ done to deserve to be the highest paid player on the team? Or Todd Wade to be the 3rd highest paid player on the team? Or Robaire Smith to be the 4th highest paid player on the team? Has any of these guys done anything to be worth what they are getting paid? I might be wrong but I thought the extension was still part of Carr's rookie contract, where the extension had to be either 2 or 3 seasons and the pay had to be whatever it is he is making now.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 04:13 PM
Carr is an average QB in the NFL so he will make a good bit of money. Hell, Milford Brown is getting $2.5 million a year!!! A tight end(Robert Royal) who averages 7 catches a season is making $2 million a year. This is the NFL today.

I have no problem with us paying him average QB money, but not top dollar on this team.

If you could please elaborate on the correlation between what a TE and G make after the new CBA for different teams and how it effects extending our QB before the CBA it would be rather enlightening.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 04:14 PM
Exactly my point, the only one ripped on here is Carr, no one ripped on AJ for dropping all those passes last season or our defense with their God awful play. And is it his fault for what he is paid? And what exactly has AJ done to deserve to be the highest paid player on the team? Or Todd Wade to be the 3rd highest paid player on the team? Or Robaire Smith to be the 4th highest paid player on the team? Has any of these guys done anything to be worth what they are getting paid? I might be wrong but I thought the extension was still part of Carr's rookie contract, where the extension had to be either 2 or 3 seasons and the pay had to be whatever it is he is making now.

If it were AJ's option last year, believe me, people would be talking about it.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 04:16 PM
He gets up play after play when he gets pounded. I think that earns him a little respect around the locker room. The guy is tough and has had very little to work with. There are a few players who got freebies this past season b/c no one really excelled outside of Mathis.

He gets up play after play. Great so over compensate him for something that comes with the job description. The guy had very little to work with? I would say that the coaches in the past and the other skill position players had little to work with in the QB.

Lucky
03-17-2006, 04:18 PM
I would say that the coaches in the past and the other skill position players had little to work with in the QB.
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

texan279
03-17-2006, 04:19 PM
If it were AJ's option last year, believe me, people would be talking about it.

So are you saying the Carr bashing didn't start until it was time for his contract option?

bigTEXan8
03-17-2006, 04:20 PM
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

Concur.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2006, 04:27 PM
So are you saying the Carr bashing didn't start until it was time for his contract option?

I can only speak for myself, but I did not want Carr in 2002. But he was our QB and I was willing to see how it unfolded. It was at the end of the 2004 season that my doubts were there and went full tilt last year knowing that it was his option year.

texan279
03-17-2006, 04:36 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I did not want Carr in 2002. But he was our QB and I was willing to see how it unfolded. It was at the end of the 2004 season that my doubts were there and went full tilt last year knowing that it was his option year.

So do you think AJ is worth the "jack" he's being paid?

edo783
03-17-2006, 06:51 PM
So do you think AJ is worth the "jack" he's being paid?

Chirp, chirp, chirp.

tsip
03-17-2006, 07:09 PM
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

...a bunch of them were his fault-could have been avoided-and would have put his #'s in line with other teams:brickwall

infantrycak
03-17-2006, 08:00 PM
...a bunch of them were his fault-could have been avoided-and would have put his #'s in line with other teams:brickwall

Ummm, yes quite a few were his fault and even removing those it would have left the Texans with miserable pass coverage.

68 sacks - 20 for Carr gets 48 sacks (pssss, by the way other QB's take unnecessary sacks as well but we will ignore that) and you get 5th worst in the league--I guess you meant in line with other sucky OL teams not in line with even mediocre teams.

HoustonFrog
03-17-2006, 09:45 PM
saw the article on the homepage and found it intersting to say the least. Texans Chic has a good point about the reference to Carrs work ethic...so far that doesnt seem to be a problem or an issue...getting to work at 0645 4 times a week for lifting, conditioning, and some practice in the bubble sure doesnt seem like a work ethic issue to me...good things could be ahead for us!

Not bashing but like all of us that needed a kick in the @ss, maybe the rumors were actually true and he is finally deciding to step up. Just saying. I played in Texas H.S ball and we worked just as hard. If I got paid 8 million to talk about my hair I'd probably mix in some early sessions and work my @ss off. That is what happens when I have to go play lawyer every day.:)My problem always has and always will be paying a guy like a S.B. QB when he actually has done nothing. Incentive always works.

Joe Texan
03-17-2006, 11:04 PM
This is what i am talking about, he is taking heat from you for saying guys are excited for him to succed,finaly, you dont think guys are happy for him, grow up you need to find someone else to cry about.

Cant even have a nice article on someone without some people knocking it down


That is a fluff article to fluff up the fans that all is gravy in the Texans locker room. There are members of this team that have no respect for Carr and his ability to put himself (with FO help) on a pedistal.

Being A 1st Draft Pick with that picks money everyone is being to soft on him. He is top cap taker and plays like a rookie. 4 years to learn now it is crunch time.

If DC turns the corner and amazes me I will eat one of Prestons Hot Wings.
but it will have to be at the last of the games cause those things are brutal and I need positive proof.

texan279
03-17-2006, 11:08 PM
That is a fluff article to fluff up the fans that all is gravy in the Texans locker room. There are members of this team that have no respect for Carr and his ability to put himself (with FO help) on a pedistal.

Being A 1st Draft Pick with that picks money everyone is being to soft on him. He is top cap taker and plays like a rookie. 4 years to learn now it is crunch time.

If DC turns the corner and amazes me I will eat one of Prestons Hot Wings.
but it will have to be at the last of the games cause those things are brutal and I need positive proof.

AJ is the "top cap taker", and I don't see anyone here dogging on him for dropping all of those passes last season that hit him in the hands...

Big B Texan Fan
03-17-2006, 11:16 PM
saw the article on the homepage and found it intersting to say the least. Texans Chic has a good point about the reference to Carrs work ethic...so far that doesnt seem to be a problem or an issue...getting to work at 0645 4 times a week for lifting, conditioning, and some practice in the bubble sure doesnt seem like a work ethic issue to me...good things could be ahead for us!
This is good, though normal for him. I wanna see what kinda work he's putting into fim study.

jerek
03-17-2006, 11:48 PM
This is good, though normal for him. I wanna see what kinda work he's putting into fim study.

Ah yes, as it has been "widely reported" that the guy doesn't study film according to the Message Board David Carr Critics' standard.

Can anybody tell me where this rumor of his bad film study practice even came from? "I heard it on the radio" or "someone told me" doesn't count.

Kaiser Toro
03-18-2006, 07:55 AM
So do you think AJ is worth the "jack" he's being paid?

AJ at the very least has an all pro year under his belt after year three. Sure talk about his drop passes, but first please let me know how many there were and how many balls were thrown to him. Moreover, how does that compare to the league.

Kaiser Toro
03-18-2006, 07:58 AM
Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they? And I think being sacked 200 times in 4 seasons goes above and beyond the call of duty.

Gaffney and Brown are gone and signed. Both drafted along wth Carr and represent 2 of 11 players on the field which represents 18% of the offensive unit. That is not a trivial percentage in the world of business.

bigTEXan8
03-18-2006, 11:30 AM
Ah yes, as it has been "widely reported" that the guy doesn't study film according to the Message Board David Carr Critics' standard.

Can anybody tell me where this rumor of his bad film study practice even came from? "I heard it on the radio" or "someone told me" doesn't count.

I got it from a friend that works for the Texans...very reliable.

Lucky
03-18-2006, 11:49 AM
Gaffney and Brown are gone and signed. Both drafted along wth Carr and represent 2 of 11 players on the field which represents 18% of the offensive unit. That is not a trivial percentage in the world of business.
Don't forget that superstar wideout Corey Bradford, who was scooped up by the Lions GM Matt "I've never met a WR I didn't like" Millen. You're up to 27%, now.

Kubiak likes him, that is great, but besides that I just do not see it.
Kubiak likes Carr, but didn't care for Gaffney, Brown, or Bradford. You think David was holding them back. I guess will just have to wait till this season to see who was right.

texan279
03-18-2006, 11:52 AM
AJ at the very least has an all pro year under his belt after year three. Sure talk about his drop passes, but first please let me know how many there were and how many balls were thrown to him. Moreover, how does that compare to the league.

So we're paying players based on what they've done in the past now? That about equals the argument some here make about paying Carr based on potential. And I have no idea where to find AJ's dropped pass percentage but I do know he had a catch percentage of 55% last season, compared to Bradford at 52%, Gaffney at 61%, and Armstrong at 75%. Also Steve Smith had a catch percentage of 69% last season, Chad Johnson 63%, Santana Moss 63%, Eddie Kennison 63%, T.J. Houshmandzadeh 68%, Rod Smith 67%, E. Parker 71%, Reggie Wayne 68%, Troy Brown 66%, Eric Moulds 63%, Joe Jurevicius 65%, Derrick Mason 64%. And everyone listed had at least 50 passes thrown to them except for Derrick Armstrong.

Runner
03-18-2006, 12:15 PM
I think Dre is worth the money. I expect him to look more like the 2004 model since they'll again be playing in a system that they believe in. The general malaise throughout the whole team last year makes it very difficult to judge anyone by their performance.

tsip
03-18-2006, 01:27 PM
"I guess you meant"

...aren't we posters lucky to always have you there to tell us what we 'really' meant to say but didn't!!!

HoustonFrog
03-18-2006, 02:33 PM
Ah yes, as it has been "widely reported" that the guy doesn't study film according to the Message Board David Carr Critics' standard.

Can anybody tell me where this rumor of his bad film study practice even came from? "I heard it on the radio" or "someone told me" doesn't count.

I'll admit that I am one of the people who has talked about it because it was discussed on 610 a few times. I wrote the morning guys and they pretty much said that they thought the coaches MIGHT have thought that. The quote was, ""While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though." Carr has always said he likes going home for film study because of family time. In Zerlein's newsletter he said this about VY, "In other words, he won't go home to watch film, he'll actually stay up at the facility and watch with his coaches (paging Mr. Carr... please report to the courtesy booth). I don't listen to those guys much but I figure they hear more than we do. The same things have been said by McClain and others in their articles.

Kaiser Toro
03-18-2006, 05:41 PM
Don't forget that superstar wideout Corey Bradford, who was scooped up by the Lions GM Matt "I've never met a WR I didn't like" Millen. You're up to 27%, now.

So that was your reply to me answering the follwing question from you? No reply would have been better than that.

Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they?

Lucky
03-19-2006, 09:28 AM
So that was your reply to me answering the follwing question from you? No reply would have been better than that.

Those coaches and players were highly sought after on the open market, were they?

Were you serious in suggesting that Gaffney, Brown, and Bradford were held back by David Carr alone, and will be boffo successes in the NFL? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Kaiser Toro
03-19-2006, 09:39 AM
Were you serious in suggesting that Gaffney, Brown, and Bradford were held back by David Carr alone, and will be boffo successes in the NFL? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Just as we do not know if Carr was truly held back by Capers and Company we cannot 100% say that Carr's inability to commandeer a full playook held back these players. These are unknowns that will play themselves out next year.

You asked about other teams chomping at the bit for the Texans and I gave you two starters for teams that will be vying for the playoffs. That is 18% of an 11 man unit, you mentioned Bradford and he could be starting for the Lions.

When someone answers my questions I usually like to give them props or continue the debate within the original question. I am sorry if my answer and the acquisitions of our Texans did not fit the intent of your question. I answered your question and if you can't get that then I will not be answering any more of your questions as yes and no qualifiers for follow up questions are tantamount to taking the ball home due to you did not get picked.

Lucky
03-19-2006, 10:35 AM
You asked about other teams chomping at the bit for the Texans and I gave you two starters for teams that will be vying for the playoffs. That is 18% of an 11 man unit, you mentioned Bradford and he could be starting for the Lions.
It's not 100% certain that any of these ex-Texans will start for their respective teams. Gaffney signed a one year contract the day before Darnerian McCants inked with the Eagles (I guess he was highly sought after, as well). Either or neither could start at WR for the Eagles. If Brown is a starting guard for the Cards, God bless Kurt Warner. And if Bradford starts for the Lions, there are about 4 Lion WRs on the injured list.

Kubiak thought that some of the Texans offense players were expendable, some weren't. Gaffney, Brown, and Bradford were expendable. Carr wasn't. That much, I'm certain of.

Wolf
03-19-2006, 10:43 AM
AJ at the very least has an all pro year under his belt after year three. Sure talk about his drop passes, but first please let me know how many there were and how many balls were thrown to him. Moreover, how does that compare to the league.

not sure how accurate this website was but this showed some "stats"


http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=17789&highlight=ratings

CarrIsFine
03-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Here is something to analyze: I heard Carr had Trix for breakfast and played some Madden yesterday. I expect 4 pages of analysis............go!

This board cracks me up.

Kaiser Toro
03-19-2006, 11:55 AM
Here is something to analyze: I heard Carr had Trix for breakfast and played some Madden yesterday. I expect 4 pages of analysis............go!

This board cracks me up.

Posts like this are awesome. Very articulate, to the point, demeans others and sarcastically claims they are amused by doing the same action they detest. Well done. Whoa, did I just do the same thing? Man do I feel better. :rolleyes:

Pot-Kettle, party of two? Your table is ready.

PokerStar
03-19-2006, 12:03 PM
Ah yes, as it has been "widely reported" that the guy doesn't study film according to the Message Board David Carr Critics' standard.

Can anybody tell me where this rumor of his bad film study practice even came from? "I heard it on the radio" or "someone told me" doesn't count.


People read to much into the radio here. Now I am not going to say that he studies tirelessly, but the one time I met Todd Wade I asked him how often does the OL and the QB study film together and he said more hours than most people work in a day. that was his words, now he could have meant only 8hrs or he could have meant 8hrs a day. who knows, but that tells me they are at least in the film room doing some work.

BTW Jerek I knew a kid name Jerek back in Amsterdam, you wouldnt happen to be Norwegian.

CarrIsFine
03-19-2006, 01:23 PM
Posts like this are awesome. Very articulate, to the point, demeans others and sarcastically claims they are amused by doing the same action they detest. Well done. Whoa, did I just do the same thing? Man do I feel better. :rolleyes:

Pot-Kettle, party of two? Your table is ready.
You are right, I am amused at the wide array of conclusions and speculation that people bring up from the simple fact that DC works out mornings in the offseason. But, hey, that is what makes this board tick.

Personally, I think DC playing Madden is a good thing. I've heard from my cousins barber that DC has issues with hand-eye coordination. Playing video games should help raise his completion % to 65+.

Kaiser Toro
03-19-2006, 09:04 PM
You are right, I am amused at the wide array of conclusions and speculation that people bring up from the simple fact that DC works out mornings in the offseason. But, hey, that is what makes this board tick.

Personally, I think DC playing Madden is a good thing. I've heard from my cousins barber that DC has issues with hand-eye coordination. Playing video games should help raise his completion % to 65+.

I have no idea what to conclude from this. I do not have a snapsot of an experience in my memory to help bridge your words.

jerek
03-20-2006, 09:42 AM
People read to much into the radio here. Now I am not going to say that he studies tirelessly, but the one time I met Todd Wade I asked him how often does the OL and the QB study film together and he said more hours than most people work in a day. that was his words, now he could have meant only 8hrs or he could have meant 8hrs a day. who knows, but that tells me they are at least in the film room doing some work.

BTW Jerek I knew a kid name Jerek back in Amsterdam, you wouldnt happen to be Norwegian.

Actually I am. That's freaky.

People do read too much into the radio. For whatever these guys know, there is a hell of a lot they do not know. The team/players tend to avoid these guys like the plague any way - other than giving their prescheduled interviews, press conferences, etc., and especially in the midst of a 2-14 offseason - so if you listen to them expecting to be in the know, expecting some reporter to have the inside on how Player X really feels about his lousy family-man quarterback, you are probably going to come away misinformed.

As far as Carr studying film at home, I do not personally see why he should be criticized for it.

I asked is it reliably proven that he does not put in the *necessary* study while at Reliant?

To say he studies film at home is not the same thing as saying he does not study at Reliant. Team sessions, etc. are important, but I have yet to hear reliable, quality indication that he does not put in the necessary time doing this.

infantrycak
03-20-2006, 10:01 AM
To say he studies film at home is not the same thing as saying he does not study at Reliant.

To put this in Allen Iverson terms--we are talking extra film study here, extra, not the film the coaches think he should look at but extra film. There hasn't been a single source who has said anything about Carr not attending the sessions scheduled by the coaches with either the coaches, the WR's or the OL. People act like Carr is a prima donna who told Capers I am not going to attend your film study sessions. BS. This is completely about how much and where Carr individually studies extra film beyond what the coaches schedule for him. Basically we think he takes film home rather than viewing at Reliant--which means we have zero idea how much he does or does not study beyond what the Texans schedule for him.

Kaiser Toro
03-20-2006, 10:04 AM
I really could care less at the moment how or where he does his film study. We are about to enter year 5 of the David Carr experiment. No more excuses for Carr, he just needs to get it done by any means necessary.

infantrycak
03-20-2006, 10:11 AM
I really could care less at the moment how or where he does his film study. We are about to enter year 5 of the David Carr experiment. No more excuses for Carr, he just needs to get it done by any means necessary.

It is time to figure out what is going on and at this point the Texans are definitely paying a premium to do so. Hopefully the new coaching staff will eliminate or reduce many of the excuses/real world impairments to performance and we see whatever the real Carr is this year. My take has never been that Carr is great or unquestionable, it is quite the opposite that Carr has legitimate things he must improve upon so why make crud up to complain about? The hair cut, California boy, silly standards (never had a win with over 227 yds, 3 TD's and a cow under a tree in the orange parking lot), made up (he refuses to study film) tripe is BS IMO.

Kaiser Toro
03-20-2006, 10:17 AM
It is time to figure out what is going on and at this point the Texans are definitely paying a premium to do so. Hopefully the new coaching staff will eliminate or reduce many of the excuses/real world impairments to performance and we see whatever the real Carr is this year. My take has never been that Carr is great or unquestionable, it is quite the opposite that Carr has legitimate things he must improve upon so why make crud up to complain about? The hair cut, California boy, silly standards (never had a win with over 227 yds, 3 TD's and a cow under a tree in the orange parking lot), made up (he refuses to study film) tripe is BS IMO.

Agreed. When you cut thorugh all of our banter, the acquistions and attritions and the press conferences the one thing that I like is that Kubiak is giving Carr all the rope in the world to hang himself or live up to expectations. That is what most of us have wanted, but there have been no percievable metrics to manage the development of DC pre Kubiak.

We need this guy to perform to get us over the top, plain and simple. He has the potential, he gets paid to perform and it is by all intent and purposes his team.

Just get it done.

jerek
03-20-2006, 10:20 AM
It is time to figure out what is going on and at this point the Texans are definitely paying a premium to do so. Hopefully the new coaching staff will eliminate or reduce many of the excuses/real world impairments to performance and we see whatever the real Carr is this year. My take has never been that Carr is great or unquestionable, it is quite the opposite that Carr has legitimate things he must improve upon so why make crud up to complain about? The hair cut, California boy, silly standards (never had a win with over 227 yds, 3 TD's and a cow under a tree in the orange parking lot), made up (he refuses to study film) tripe is BS IMO.

Exactly.

And simply for the record, why do we only complain about Carr getting overpaid? This on the team that substantially overpays pretty much every one of its FAs (Weaver, most recently, Greenwood last year, to name a few of the many) and then some. I know the FA is about who's going to show the most money, but am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture?

Please understand, it is not a leading question, it is not meant as some kind of thinly disguised corrolary to "David is the man" ... crap like that. I feel that there are a number of posters on this board who do not like DC for verifiably legitimate reasons and they simply want what is best for the Texans, without spinning every post into some kind of agenda for their other pet player, KT being one of those guys.

Just an observation, nothing more.

SESupergenius
03-20-2006, 10:31 AM
Oh you summoned me.

Davey jumped up and started to do something cause Gary was coming to town and he knew his future rode on doing exactly what Gary wanted.
Good for Carr to be doing that in the offseason but does he know how the corners react in Dallas this season, Nope I doubt it cause he is too good to study that. I will be happy to see progress on Davids part cause it has been a long time coming.




Now this just sounds like a freshman in high school, come on man, David, Your making millions and the leader of this team, reach down and grab some.
are you a part of the liberal media as well. Just checking.

jerek
03-20-2006, 11:05 AM
I'll admit that I am one of the people who has talked about it because it was discussed on 610 a few times. I wrote the morning guys and they pretty much said that they thought the coaches MIGHT have thought that. The quote was, ""While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though." Carr has always said he likes going home for film study because of family time. In Zerlein's newsletter he said this about VY, "In other words, he won't go home to watch film, he'll actually stay up at the facility and watch with his coaches (paging Mr. Carr... please report to the courtesy booth). I don't listen to those guys much but I figure they hear more than we do. The same things have been said by McClain and others in their articles.

Zerlein ... the biggest Vince Young fan this side of Austin. Paging credibility ... oh no, credibility is gone!