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View Full Version : Addition by subtraction!!!


David's Busted Carr
03-16-2006, 01:02 PM
The more I think about it, I really like what Gary Kubiak is doing. He's sending a CLEAR message that if you don't perform you are GONE!

Marcus Coleman - GONE
Gary Walker - GONE
Milford Brown - GONE
Jabar Gaffney - GONE
Corey Bradford - GONE
Tony Hollings - GONE
Tony Banks - GONE

What do all of these guys have in common? They were all underachievers. And yes I know alot of you are going to come back with "what about David Carr", but since Kubiak's specialty is QB, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Lets face it, we were 2-14 and most of those players were with us from the beginning. So lets trim the fat, start fresh and look to the future! And I highly doubt any of these departures (Gaffney & Bradford included) weren't intentional. I believe if they wanted either of those guys back, they wouldn't have had any problems signing them. Kubes obviously thinks we'd be better off without them.

Keep it going Gary!!!

Texas
03-16-2006, 01:10 PM
Jabar Gaffney did prove he could do it and he still is gone. Maybe he's sending a mixed message?

jerek
03-16-2006, 01:15 PM
Unfortunately Gaff is gone, but I agree with the rest. My understanding is that Rosenhaus was playing hardball and wanted more than the Texans were willing to give Gaff, but that is just what I am hearing.

Wish him luck with the Eagles, though, and I wish we had used the guy for what he brought to the table when he was here.

Texas
03-16-2006, 01:17 PM
Yea..I think he will be a star for the eagles...Him and mcnabb will collab good

hot pickle
03-16-2006, 01:19 PM
I think lito sheppard had alot to do with gaff signing with the eagles as well, cause lito and gaff are cousins and everything. but i really liked gaff, and it sucks to see him gone, but good luck gaff, do your thing brah!

the wonger need food
03-16-2006, 01:20 PM
Unfortunately Gaff is gone, but I agree with the rest. My understanding is that Rosenhaus was playing hardball and wanted more than the Texans were willing to give Gaff, but that is just what I am hearing.

Wish him luck with the Eagles, though, and I wish we had used the guy for what he brought to the table when he was here.

Well, he couldn't have gotten that good of a deal if he's only signed for 1 year. It'll be interesting to what kind of money he got.

TheOgre
03-16-2006, 01:22 PM
Gaffney was a #3 quality receiver looking for #2 receiver money.

Kaiser Toro
03-16-2006, 01:26 PM
The more I think about it, I really like what Gary Kubiak is doing. He's sending a CLEAR message that if you don't perform you are GONE!

Marcus Coleman - GONE
Gary Walker - GONE
Milford Brown - GONE
Jabar Gaffney - GONE
Corey Bradford - GONE
Tony Hollings - GONE
Tony Banks - GONE

What do all of these guys have in common? They were all underachievers. And yes I know alot of you are going to come back with "what about David Carr", but since Kubiak's specialty is QB, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Lets face it, we were 2-14 and most of those players were with us from the beginning. So lets trim the fat, start fresh and look to the future! And I highly doubt any of these departures (Gaffney & Bradford included) weren't intentional. I believe if they wanted either of those guys back, they wouldn't have had any problems signing them. Kubes obviously thinks we'd be better off without them.

Keep it going Gary!!!

So how do you explain the only time we have ever won 3 games in a five game stretch was when most of these guys were on the field and Carr was not?

chuckm
03-16-2006, 01:34 PM
So how do you explain the only time we have ever won 3 games in a five game stretch was when most of these guys were on the field and Carr was not?


Wasn't the 3rd win in that stretch over the Falcons? And didn't Carr take over for an injured Banks?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031130_ATL@HOU


Carr was supposed to miss the game after spraining his right shoulder two weeks ago. But he was pressed into action when Tony Banks broke his right hand on another player's helmet near the end of the first half.

Carr, playing in obvious pain, led a 63-yard drive on the Texans' first possession of the second half, getting 36 yards himself with a Vick-like run to the Atlanta 22. Davis ran untouched for a 7-yard touchdown and a 10-7 lead for the Texans (5-7).

chuckm
03-16-2006, 01:36 PM
according to this ...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule/HOU/2004

we won 4 out of 5 .... and Carr was on the field for each ...

kcwilson
03-16-2006, 01:44 PM
according to this ...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule/HOU/2004

we won 4 out of 5 .... and Carr was on the field for each ...

I flew from California to see the Minnesota game (the only L in that aforementioned stretch)... we should have won that but ironically, the secondary blew coverage on consecutive plays.

Carr rallied the team from a 21-0 halftime deficit in the 2nd half to force OT. We should have won the game in the 4th qtr as well but thanks to a blown play somewhere (I forget why) we didn't.

alphajoker
03-16-2006, 01:48 PM
according to this ...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule/HOU/2004

we won 4 out of 5 .... and Carr was on the field for each ...

Also, Carr had one of his best games and, correct me if I'm wrong, but had two 100 yard receivers that game....one was 'Dre and the other was not Gaffney but Armstrong.

Honoring Earl 34
03-16-2006, 01:58 PM
:crying: Only the F.O. knows how hard they tried to sign Gaffney . I thought he was very inconsistent , but you can say that about the whole team the last 4 years .

Its probably not a bad idea to purge the team and start fresh just to get out that loosing stench .

infantrycak
03-16-2006, 02:48 PM
according to this ...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule/HOU/2004

we won 4 out of 5 .... and Carr was on the field for each ...

Shhh with those pesky facts. Seriously folks, stop trying to give Banks credit for the win over Atlanta--the Texans were losing when he left the game.

DanTanna
03-16-2006, 02:55 PM
What about Jason Babin??????????????????

Corrosion
03-16-2006, 03:11 PM
Shhh with those pesky facts. Seriously folks, stop trying to give Banks credit for the win over Atlanta--the Texans were losing when he left the game.


Exactly .... and Carr came in HURT only to lead the team to victory .... Anyone else remember the 15 or so yard scramble he took off on .... It didnt end with a hook slide but a head first lunge for the first down ... taking a pretty good lick in the process . :texflag:

I'd like to think that is the player Carr is .... Not what we saw last season while he was handcuffed with a mickey mouse offense and rediculously poor pass protection. :twocents:

Malloy
03-16-2006, 03:21 PM
Unfortunately Gaff is gone, but I agree with the rest. My understanding is that Rosenhaus was playing hardball and wanted more than the Texans were willing to give Gaff, but that is just what I am hearing.


eeek, The Gaffer is represented by Rosenhaus, that's enough reason for me to want him out of town. Rosenhaus is a pest, I wish we NEVER EVER have one of his players on our team. So someone tell me, according to my philosophy, how many players should get fired now ? :)

TexanSam
03-16-2006, 03:31 PM
eeek, The Gaffer is represented by Rosenhaus, that's enough reason for me to want him out of town. Rosenhaus is a pest, I wish we NEVER EVER have one of his players on our team. So someone tell me, according to my philosophy, how many players should get fired now ? :)

Scott Boras and Drew Rosenhaus should fight each other. The loser dies, the winner has to quit being an agent altogether! Perfect for everyone

thunderkyss
03-16-2006, 04:05 PM
Unfortunately Gaff is gone, but I agree with the rest. My understanding is that Rosenhaus was playing hardball and wanted more than the Texans were willing to give Gaff, but that is just what I am hearing.

Wish him luck with the Eagles, though, and I wish we had used the guy for what he brought to the table when he was here.

I can understand that with Rosenhaus...... but I'd like to see what the Eagles gave him first....

thunderkyss
03-16-2006, 04:08 PM
Exactly .... and Carr came in HURT only to lead the team to victory .... Anyone else remember the 15 or so yard scramble he took off on .... It didnt end with a hook slide but a head first lunge for the first down ... taking a pretty good lick in the process . :texflag:

I'd like to think that is the player Carr is .... Not what we saw last season while he was handcuffed with a mickey mouse offense and rediculously poor pass protection. :twocents:

I admit, I have to get TiVo or something, because I seem to only remember the bad stuff....

chuckm
03-16-2006, 04:26 PM
I admit, I have to get TiVo or something, because I seem to only remember the bad stuff....


it's not your memory, it's your eyesight ... hard to see through those burnt-orange glasses ...

infantrycak
03-16-2006, 04:38 PM
Exactly .... and Carr came in HURT only to lead the team to victory .... Anyone else remember the 15 or so yard scramble he took off on .... It didnt end with a hook slide but a head first lunge for the first down ... taking a pretty good lick in the process . :texflag:

Even better, it was a 36 yd scramble. Of course because it is Carr it is because he has horrible vision down field and ignored 4 receivers whereas if it had been VY it would be a demonstration of leadership and the will to win, put the team on his back, etc.

Vinny
03-16-2006, 04:38 PM
Shhh with those pesky facts. Seriously folks, stop trying to give Banks credit for the win over Atlanta--the Texans were losing when he left the game.
Carr completed 3 passes and one was an interception in that game. What a big game from Carr....Orr was the guy who won that game for us with the big sack on Vick.

chuckm
03-16-2006, 04:42 PM
Carr completed 3 passes and one was an interception in that game. What a big game from Carr....Orr was the guy who won that game for us with the big sack on Vick.


Welcome back Vinny ..... he's not Vince Young but he showed a helluva lotta guts .....

infantrycak
03-16-2006, 04:43 PM
Carr completed 3 passes and one was an interception in that game. What a big game from Carr....Orr was the guy who won that game for us with the big sack on Vick.

So it was Orr who won the game? Funny, I don't remember him on offense scoring the go ahead points to bring them from behind the Banks deficit. Besides isn't being the winning QB all that counts?--that's what we hear about Big Ben in the SB.

Truth is the team has lost a lot of games and the team won that one but there is no way Banks can get credit for winning a game where the Texans were losing when he left the game--which was the original assertion made above.

tulexan
03-16-2006, 04:46 PM
So it was Orr who won the game? Funny, I don't remember him on offense scoring the go ahead points to bring them from behind the Banks deficit. Besides isn't being the winning QB all that counts?--that's what we hear about Big Ben in the SB.



That is also what we hear about Vick.

chuckm
03-16-2006, 04:51 PM
So it was Orr who won the game? Funny, I don't remember him on offense scoring the go ahead points to bring them from behind the Banks deficit. Besides isn't being the winning QB all that counts?--that's what we hear about Big Ben in the SB.

Truth is the team has lost a lot of games and the team won that one but there is no way Banks can get credit for winning a game where the Texans were losing when he left the game--which was the original assertion made above.

there's no convincing the Vincemongers .... here's all that needs to be said

DC's talent & leadership = 1 / VY's talent & leadership
as VY --> ∞, Carr --> 0

HJam72
03-16-2006, 05:17 PM
there's no convincing the Vincemongers .... here's all that needs to be said

DC's talent & leadership = 1 / VY's talent & leadership
as VY --> ∞, Carr --> 0

Vince Y. here. Um, your 8 fell over. :confused:

thunderkyss
03-16-2006, 05:46 PM
Even better, it was a 36 yd scramble. Of course because it is Carr it is because he has horrible vision down field and ignored 4 receivers whereas if it had been VY it would be a demonstration of leadership and the will to win, put the team on his back, etc.
If you want to get stupid, that's fine. go ahead. You think David's vision is better than Vince's........ okay........ You think David's a better playmaker... whatever...... we'll see........ oh yes, we'll see.





David's not bad....... David will win games......... but either David is looking for a job in 2008, or the Texans will be the new Lions....... Cardinals..... Saints..... at least a decade of loosing, and coming up short.


you think you're funny with little quips like this, you and chuckM..... we'll see. burnt orange glasses..... mmmmmhhmmmm. we'll see.

HJam72
03-16-2006, 05:50 PM
If you wear burnt orange glasses to a UT game, how do you see the players? :um:

Does it make the cheerleaders look naked? :redtowel:

infantrycak
03-16-2006, 06:51 PM
If you want to get stupid, that's fine. go ahead. You think David's vision is better than Vince's........ okay........ You think David's a better playmaker... whatever...... we'll see........ oh yes, we'll see.

Dude, you're the one inclined to run down everyone but VY. Yes I was mocking your silly assertion that Vick and Carr's rushing totals prove they are bad QB's. It is such an obviously hypocritical statement it begged mocking. VY's rushing for 1000 yds proves he is a multi tooled athlete of the century, but running by anyone else is proof they are a bad QB--yeah, sure. The comment though was directed at the level of discussion about Carr and Young, not about their actual talents. Find me a single post where I said Carr had better vision than VY or was a better playmaker, c'mon?

Whatever--there are plenty of legitimate complaints/concerns about Carr's game--attributing a win to the QB who left the game losing rather than the one who was in while they came back from a deficit and won is nothing more than a display of blatant bias IMO. You don't have to heap accolades on Carr for that game but it is absurd to act as if Banks should receive any credit and be reponsible for winning 3 games out of 5.

outofhnd
03-16-2006, 06:56 PM
I think the thing that led GAff away was the fact he has a good chance to be the #2 receiver on that team where here he would be competing for the slot job again.

chuckm
03-16-2006, 09:42 PM
If you want to get stupid, that's fine. go ahead. You think David's vision is better than Vince's........ okay........ You think David's a better playmaker... whatever...... we'll see........ oh yes, we'll see.

David's not bad....... David will win games......... but either David is looking for a job in 2008, or the Texans will be the new Lions....... Cardinals..... Saints..... at least a decade of loosing, and coming up short.

you think you're funny with little quips like this, you and chuckM..... we'll see. burnt orange glasses..... mmmmmhhmmmm. we'll see.


I think at this point it's illuminating to repeat a post I made yesterday


this is from 11-28-2005


I mean we could have much worse than Carr. The kids got an arm, he's got the will to win, and he's not stupid. I think Carr can be doing alot better than the Houston Texans, and he'd be stupid(though I'd love it) if he decided to stay in Houston. The QB is not the problem, and that is one position you don't want to be trying to fill, while you are building a team.

I saw in this game, what I thought I was going to see all year. A team that was competitive, and explosive. DD had a good game, Wells was awesome, Andre is a stud, and he showed it..........Gafney didn't have his best game, if he did......we'd have won. Carr looked great, and I do mean Great, and the O-Line looked really good.

__________________

outofhnd
03-16-2006, 10:07 PM
I think all you we need a #2 receiver in our lineup are going to have to face fact that Mathis is our #2 guy...

Look at the offense in denver and personnel wise he fits, AJ will be in Rod Smith's role, On the other side of Rod we have Ashlie lelie, A burner who had his best year last year it took like 3 or 4 years but he came around. I see Mathis as that receiver amazing speed just needs to play the position and learn.

edo783
03-16-2006, 10:52 PM
I think all you we need a #2 receiver in our lineup are going to have to face fact that Mathis is our #2 guy...

Look at the offense in denver and personnel wise he fits, AJ will be in Rod Smith's role, On the other side of Rod we have Ashlie lelie, A burner who had his best year last year it took like 3 or 4 years but he came around. I see Mathis as that receiver amazing speed just needs to play the position and learn.

Not a bad analogy.

YodAa
03-16-2006, 10:59 PM
gaffney is a BUST and I don't think you can fairly compare Lelie with Mathis since Lelie is such a big WR and Mathis is so small

run-david-run
03-17-2006, 12:57 AM
gaffney is a BUST and I don't think you can fairly compare Lelie with Mathis since Lelie is such a big WR and Mathis is so small
He isnt comparing the actual players, just the roles they will fill. AJ will get a lot of the short stuff with YAC possibilities while Mathis will strech the field and keep the safties honest.

Just as a random thought: AJ out of the slot on the same side with Mathis. Im pretty sure this was the formation we were lined up with when AJ caught that 53 yd TD against the Jags, yet we never really used it other times. I think this could really give us some options, especially if Mathis develops into a reknown deep threat, not just a fast guy.

outofhnd
03-17-2006, 01:11 AM
Well he did catch that pass in the Browns game, It wasnt a pretty catch but he came down with it. Lelie wasnt a deep threat overnight, I can remember a couple of fantasy years where he hardly gave me any points,

thunderkyss
03-17-2006, 02:37 AM
I think at this point it's illuminating to repeat a post I made yesterday


this is from 11-28-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I mean we could have much worse than Carr. The kids got an arm, he's got the will to win, and he's not stupid. I think Carr can be doing alot better than the Houston Texans, and he'd be stupid(though I'd love it) if he decided to stay in Houston. The QB is not the problem, and that is one position you don't want to be trying to fill, while you are building a team.

I saw in this game, what I thought I was going to see all year. A team that was competitive, and explosive. DD had a good game, Wells was awesome, Andre is a stud, and he showed it..........Gafney didn't have his best game, if he did......we'd have won. Carr looked great, and I do mean Great, and the O-Line looked really good.




Go to the Cowboys forum, look for posts, by thunderkyss, search for Quincy Carter. I supported him too, and I give those guys a hard time for the way they treated Quincy...... That was at a time, when they were playing musical QBs........ I was happy, somewhat proud, that the Texans weren't doing the same thing. I still think Carr is as good as 80% of the QBs in the league today, but I don't think 80% is good enough....... That 80% includes guys like Jake Plummer, Kitna, Griese, Brooks, Vick, Bollinger, Martin, Losman. You keep him, just like Carter, untill you have access to a special QB. Like a Cullpepper at 11, or a Cutler at 6.... IF you're like the Broncos, and you have Running Backs galore, use one of them and a pick, but most teams don't have that luxury. If you're the Texans, and your stacked with recievers, put in a couple of them. But if you have the #1, get your man.

This gives your team time to learn how to play together. the Offensive line.... so what, if Quincy get's his head torn off, or if David eats a little dirt while he learns......... get your recievers together, get you defense dominating...... build your team, get good. You can do it both ways... if you've got an Aikman, build around him...... if you don't, build anyway, then stick him in when you get him.

thunderkyss
03-17-2006, 02:52 AM
Dude, you're the one inclined to run down everyone but VY. Yes I was mocking your silly assertion that Vick and Carr's rushing totals prove they are bad QB's. It is such an obviously hypocritical statement it begged mocking. VY's rushing for 1000 yds proves he is a multi tooled athlete of the century, but running by anyone else is proof they are a bad QB--yeah, sure. The comment though was directed at the level of discussion about Carr and Young, not about their actual talents. Find me a single post where I said Carr had better vision than VY or was a better playmaker, c'mon?

.

Search.......

t.....h.........u.........n.........d............e .............r.......k....y......s..........s..... .. you won't find one post, where I've said one thing negative, about any texan, other than David Carr. not one. I'll dog Dunta, if we have an opportunity to get a corner I think is better. And the only negative things I've said about Carr, are honest criticisms about his game.

I'm not the only one that says Vicks rushing totals means he is a bad QB. He can't get it done with his arm..... he's exciting to watch, but I'd never have him QBing on my team... Carr..... runs....... and that's it. Very rarely will he look down field. I've never seen him pump fake to freeze a defender... I'd imagine other teams scouting reports say to pour it on, because he is very unlikely to throw when he leaves the pocket......... tell me I'm wrong. He won't even throw it away. How hard is it to get someone to understand outside the tackles, you can chunk it?? Instead, he takes a lick for a three yard pickup.

Now I appreciate it, if he picks up a first down, or a rushing TD. But same thing with Vick, there's only so much of that stuff I want to see.

1 day ago: (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=291783&postcount=5)

If I had Vince, We'd pretty much do the same thing. Except, I wouldn't expect him to start as early as Week5. I won't start him, till Week 8, if we aren't @ .500. Week 10, if we aren't leading a Wildcard race. But I have to see him working on the things I tell him he needs work on. In the preseason, I'm telling him, no running. This isn't some Circus, make the plays from the pocket. I want to see him take a sack. I want to see him beat a blitz with his arm. I want to see him play QB. I'd be very upfront about it. Tell him, these are the lessons he's got to learn, before he takes the filed during the regular season. Once I'm comfortable that he can perform from the pocket, then I'll let him loose. If he thinks scrambling, or breaking the LOS is his best option, then, that's fine. I'd give him that freedom, just like I'd give any QB the freedom to call an audible. But there will be no audibles for Vince to run the ball......... there will be no plays other than the occasional bootleg/QB sneak, for Vince to run the ball.