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View Full Version : Stop the Babin at MLB Madness


bdiddy
03-15-2006, 09:29 PM
Jason Babin will NOT play MLB. The guy was horrible in space as an outside LB. He struggled in traffic and was not effective in deflecting blockers. He has below average speed for an LB and VERY weak lateral hip movement. Simply put he is not built to be an MLB.

Allow him to play DE and I think there is a chance he can become an effective player (may be not first round quality, but adequate).

outofhnd
03-15-2006, 09:38 PM
Hey I put him at MLB on Madden 06 and he rocks!:dangit:

beerlover
03-15-2006, 09:42 PM
Jason Babin will NOT play MLB. The guy was horrible in space as an outside LB. He struggled in traffic and was not effective in deflecting blockers. He has below average speed for an LB and VERY weak lateral hip movement. Simply put he is not built to be an MLB.

Allow him to play DE and I think there is a chance he can become an effective player (may be not first round quality, but adequate).

horrible outside in space then how about inside in space :)

if he struggled in traffic, deflecting defenders how does he excell as a DE :rolleyes:

maybe we can take back the pick :brickwall

no I got a better :idea: let him compete @ MLB

Bubbajwp
03-15-2006, 09:53 PM
He wieghs almost 260. I think he would be terrible in Coverage. He would be a passrushing runstuffing type MLB and I dont think that is what we are looking for.

bdiddy
03-15-2006, 09:54 PM
Struggling in traffic has nothing to do with being a DE. Struggling in traffic means he does not shed blockers well, he is too easily contained with one man. JOB 1 of a MLB is to quickly shed blockers to get to the ball.

If he does not have good feet in space due to his lack of lateral quickness and stiff hips, this does not translate well to any linebacker position, including MLB. Babin has good straight away, inline speed for a DE (his natural position), so let him play what he is best suited to play.

Why don't we move TJ to OLB. He is strong, we have a lot of people at DT, just let him compete. Does this make any sense? No, neither does playing Babin at MLB. Babin may be able to play OLB, he is in NO WAY suited for MLB.

2 CENTS
03-15-2006, 09:58 PM
He is "terrible in space". That is EXACTLY why I think he would be better suited for MLB. Defensive End is OK also Just HATE to see a PLAYER we DRAFTED in the FIRST ROUND GO to waste. I read an article about Babin & PEEK competeing for DE or even splitting TIME at DE which is OK with me. If you could get both of them on the feild at the same time I think it would be even better since we now have WEAVER entrenched at the other DE position. By usung BABIN it would mean we wouldn't need to DRAFT a LB. If we did DRAFT a LB HOPE it would be CARPENTER in the 2nd ROUND but then where do we get OL Line help (with our 2 3rd rounders) plus that would screw us out of MANGOLD in the second.
2 CENTS

outofhnd
03-15-2006, 10:00 PM
TJ at OLB are you kidding? Thats just crazy...


Now Seth Payne as our #2 corner... talk about a shutdown corner and he has the uncanny ability to squat on every route.

pittbull
03-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Great explanation on Babin. I really don't know what this team is going to do with Babin. I personally think he was a bad choice. Now that they have to make him a 4-3 down lineman, he's going to have to put on wieght. If he was not effective in a 3-point stance, how effective will he be trying to gain leverage from the stance! Way to go again Charley C!:ok:

bdiddy
03-15-2006, 10:01 PM
TJ at OLB are you kidding? Thats just crazy...


Now Seth Payne as our #2 corner... talk about a shutdown corner and he has the uncanny ability to squat on every route.

That is the point I was making. So is the idea of Babin at MLB.

outofhnd
03-15-2006, 10:06 PM
Actually it may help him get a better explosion off the line because he can get low.. Where when he was standing up and rushing I felt he was going to high. And the OT was then able to get his hands inside of him. He was pushing the lineman but because he was vertical they could just redirect him. I think if he can get low it will also add some deception as to what route he is taking to the QB... It may actually work for us. Holland our LB coach has already said he would like to have Peek at LB so I feel he may be our weak side OLB.

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:08 PM
I wish everyone would stop the madness about Babin not being able to play the 4-3 DE or that Babin needs to gain weight to play DE. Babin played DE in college and was a beast. Babin is listed as 6'2'' 259, compare that to Kearse at 6'4'' 265, Abraham at 6'4'' 258, Suggs at 6'3'' 260, KGB at 6'4'' 250, and Simeone Rice at 6'5'' 268. Could someone please tell me why so many here think Babin has to gain weight to play DE? Babin is actually listed as being 10 pounds heavier than Peek, so why does no one say anything about Peek having to gain weight to play DE?

bdiddy
03-15-2006, 10:10 PM
I wish everyone would stop the madness about Babin not being able to play the 4-3 DE or that Babin needs to gain weight to play DE. Babin played DE in college and was a beast. Babin is listed as 6'2'' 259, compare that to Kearse at 6'4'' 265, Abraham at 6'4'' 258, Suggs at 6'3'' 260, KGB at 6'4'' 250, and Simeone Rice at 6'5'' 268. Could someone please tell me why so many here think Babin has to gain weight to play DE?

I agree that he can play DE at his current weight, but it probably would not hurt him to gain 10lbs. or so. His senior year in college he played at 282. He dropped down to 256 because it would improve his stock as an OLB in the 3-4 scheme.

pittbull
03-15-2006, 10:17 PM
the guys mentioned to be the same or smaller size than Babin are FLAT OUT EXPLOSIVE! Babin is slower than what he was advertised, and if you cant get past them, you better push the line with size and strength. The Texans thought they could make him an outside pass rushing 3-4 LB like Kevin Greene in Pittsburgh and Carolina, but Capers forgot.....Kevin Greene was a monster!:yahoo:

YoungTexanFan
03-15-2006, 10:19 PM
He is "terrible in space". That is EXACTLY why I think he would be better suited for MLB. Defensive End is OK also Just HATE to see a PLAYER we DRAFTED in the FIRST ROUND GO to waste. I read an article about Babin & PEEK competeing for DE or even splitting TIME at DE which is OK with me. If you could get both of them on the feild at the same time I think it would be even better since we now have WEAVER entrenched at the other DE position. By usung BABIN it would mean we wouldn't need to DRAFT a LB. If we did DRAFT a LB HOPE it would be CARPENTER in the 2nd ROUND but then where do we get OL Line help (with our 2 3rd rounders) plus that would screw us out of MANGOLD in the second.
2 CENTS

YOUR going to HAVE TO stop THAT please SON. Thank YOU.

Runner
03-15-2006, 10:19 PM
Could someone please tell me why so many here think Babin has to gain weight to play DE?

Umm ... because people confuse criticism with critical thinking?

YoungTexanFan
03-15-2006, 10:20 PM
I wish everyone would stop the madness about Babin not being able to play the 4-3 DE or that Babin needs to gain weight to play DE. Babin played DE in college and was a beast. Babin is listed as 6'2'' 259, compare that to Kearse at 6'4'' 265, Abraham at 6'4'' 258, Suggs at 6'3'' 260, KGB at 6'4'' 250, and Simeone Rice at 6'5'' 268. Could someone please tell me why so many here think Babin has to gain weight to play DE? Babin is actually listed as being 10 pounds heavier than Peek, so why does no one say anything about Peek having to gain weight to play DE?

I say it all the time. I think Peek needs to walk. Babin should start over him IMO. But everyone else just loves Peek.

pittbull
03-15-2006, 10:21 PM
Everyone that was mentioned in that last post is highly explosive off the ball and have gone to a pro bowl for being such. There is no way we can compare Babin to any of those guys. As for the school he played at in college to obtain his monster numbers. Let him try those numbers in the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, SEC, or PAC-10!!! Man what conference is Western Michigan in anyway!:brickwall

Runner
03-15-2006, 10:25 PM
the guys mentioned to be the same or smaller size than Babin are FLAT OUT EXPLOSIVE! Babin is slower than what he was advertised, and if you cant get past them, you better push the line with size and strength. The Texans thought they could make him an outside pass rushing 3-4 LB like Kevin Greene in Pittsburgh and Carolina, but Capers forgot.....Kevin Greene was a monster!:yahoo:

This has some good reasoning. I'm not sure I agree; Babin's quickness off the ball may improve from the DE position. However, kudos because it is based on something more than an idea of what a DE should look like.

12Gage
03-15-2006, 10:25 PM
And they traded a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th for Babin. got damn

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:46 PM
Everyone that was mentioned in that last post is highly explosive off the ball and have gone to a pro bowl for being such. There is no way we can compare Babin to any of those guys. As for the school he played at in college to obtain his monster numbers. Let him try those numbers in the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, SEC, or PAC-10!!! Man what conference is Western Michigan in anyway!:brickwall

We have no idea how explosive Babin would be off of the ball coming out of the 3 point stance from the DE position. So you cannot say if Babin will or will not be explosive coming off the ball as a DE.

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:58 PM
the guys mentioned to be the same or smaller size than Babin are FLAT OUT EXPLOSIVE! Babin is slower than what he was advertised, and if you cant get past them, you better push the line with size and strength. The Texans thought they could make him an outside pass rushing 3-4 LB like Kevin Greene in Pittsburgh and Carolina, but Capers forgot.....Kevin Greene was a monster!:yahoo:

How do you know Babin is slower than advertised? Do you have a link or source showing that Babin is slower than the 4.69 40 he ran before the draft?

big homey
03-15-2006, 11:10 PM
Now Seth Payne as our #2 corner... talk about a shutdown corner and he has the uncanny ability to squat on every route.
Great idea! Imagine his ability to jam a receiver at the line. The receiver can't run a route if he's on the ground, right? Now THAT'S a shutdown CB!

run-david-run
03-15-2006, 11:57 PM
Hey I put him at MLB on Madden 06 and he rocks!:dangit:
Really? I put him at RDE in a 4-3 and he was 91 overall! Even Madden agrees that Charley loves to play people out of position!

dtran04
03-16-2006, 12:20 AM
And they traded a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th for Babin. got damn


We actually "only" lost a 3rd, 4th, and a swapping in the 5th round. We didn't lose the 2nd round pick.....we gained from that. It's a common misconception when that trade is discussed.

beerlover
03-16-2006, 03:06 AM
I see no reason why the Texans would not look at Babin to fill the MLB position or that he could become another Tedy Bruschi type of ILB/MLB. His problem at end is he has trouble shedding linemen not TE's, Fullbacks, WR's or RB's.

despite your assertions he is above average in the speed department, maybe not elite but surely Bruschi material a 4.65 is good enough if you can change speed and cut which he can.

Bruschi, the third-round draft pick from Arizona, is Parcells' kind of guy. It doesn't matter that he's barely 6 feet. It didn't keep him from tying an NCAA Division I-A career sack record of 52, and that was as a defensive lineman. Parcells drafted him as a middle linebacker, a position Bruschi never had played. But after three days at that spot, Parcells moved Bruschi to outside linebacker, and he has been there ever since, except in certain nickel situations.

He had 56 tackles and 14 1/2 sacks as a senior and 39 tackles and 10sacks as a junior. He was a consensus All-American both years and the Pac-10 Player of the Year in 1995. Bruschi's intensity and speed off the ball made him a key component of the Arizona Wildcats' Desert Swarm defense. Critics thought his size might keep him from having a true NFL position because he is not big enough to play on the defensive line. But the Patriots thought differently and expect Bruschi to add some depth to the linebacker position.

Lets be creative guys and not peigon hole the guy because he was drafted under another regime or system. I would love to get a guy like AJ Hawk but maybe just maybe Jason could develop into something really special as the Texans MLB :confused: he has both the size, character, competitiveness & athleticism to play the position plus two years @ OLB a transistion to MLB maybe easier than y'all think :thumbup

aj.
03-16-2006, 03:35 AM
I think Babin is on the fast track for the WWE.

texasguy346
03-16-2006, 03:59 AM
I think Babin is on the fast track for the WWE.

Perhaps he could call himself 'The Babinator' or something like that.

Marcus
03-16-2006, 05:12 AM
Great explanation on Babin. I really don't know what this team is going to do with Babin. I personally think he was a bad choice. Now that they have to make him a 4-3 down lineman, he's going to have to put on wieght. If he was not effective in a 3-point stance, how effective will he be trying to gain leverage from the stance! Way to go again Charley C!
:ok:

You need to check yourself, pittbull. You wanna bash someone for the Babin pick, then bash the right person . . . the one who'se already been fired.

rittenhouserobz
03-16-2006, 05:46 AM
We actually "only" lost a 3rd, 4th, and a swapping in the 5th round. We didn't lose the 2nd round pick.....we gained from that. It's a common misconception when that trade is discussed.

I will assume that you were being sarcastic when you stated we "only" gave high 3rd and 4th round picks to our nemisis; thereby, helping them rebuild on our picks while we still had plenty of starting/depth issues.

Don't get me wrong I think Babin can be alright, but the Texans needed to draft more players to get young blood in the corps group of Texans. When a player starts an NFL career drafted in the 3rd or 4th round, I think they approach the game with an attitude of "I have something to prove". It woud appear as though many FA's sign their deal and then its "What can I do to ensure I get paid the full amount of this contract?" I like the guys who play with more spirit.

aj.
03-16-2006, 06:44 AM
You need to check yourself, pittbull. You wanna bash someone for the Babin pick, then bash the right person . . . the one who'se already been fired.

Yes, Fangio said "I want him bad" (no, that's not a Brokeback reference)

But, instead of simply being a hey boy, CC should have made a real GM decision and had the sense to tell Fang that no one in their right mind would trade back up into the first round and throw in a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick to take <cue ring announcer's voice> Jasonnnnn "the tat man tweenerrrr" Babinatorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

CoachJim
03-16-2006, 07:01 AM
Really? I put him at RDE in a 4-3 and he was 91 overall! Even Madden agrees that Charley loves to play people out of position!

I just made my own player fittingly named "Skull Krusher" for my MLB & he works out pretty good. JBabin @ MLB? .... not EVEN in Madden for me.

Coach C.
03-16-2006, 07:27 AM
Well reading through this thread I see some weird thoughts on the job of our MLB in the new system. We are switching to a 43 defense that will have aggressive Cover 2 tendancies. Meaning our MLB must be able to drive back to a certain depth stay with TEs and RBs, and successfully stop the run.

Babin hate to admit it is one of our better tacklers. He can play MLB because he has good lateral quickness, it is his best asset. He is good in a phonebooth which means hash to hash backwards, forwards, and side to side, so he could handle the MLB position. Problem is this he is slow to recognize the play, he would also likely be purely a stop gap and he would have fit at ILB in our 3-4 better than MLB in our 43 to bad that was not realized.

I would put him through the paces in some of the mini camps after he proved that he was not the guy I know that he is our backup passrusher and 3rd down LDE. It means that I resign Troy Evans and I draft a rookie in rounds 3-5 to help at the position and possibly groom.

bdiddy
03-16-2006, 07:34 AM
I see no reason why the Texans would not look at Babin to fill the MLB position or that he could become another Tedy Bruschi type of ILB/MLB. His problem at end is he has trouble shedding linemen not TE's, Fullbacks, WR's or RB's.

despite your assertions he is above average in the speed department, maybe not elite but surely Bruschi material a 4.65 is good enough if you can change speed and cut which he can.

Bruschi, the third-round draft pick from Arizona, is Parcells' kind of guy. It doesn't matter that he's barely 6 feet. It didn't keep him from tying an NCAA Division I-A career sack record of 52, and that was as a defensive lineman. Parcells drafted him as a middle linebacker, a position Bruschi never had played. But after three days at that spot, Parcells moved Bruschi to outside linebacker, and he has been there ever since, except in certain nickel situations.

He had 56 tackles and 14 1/2 sacks as a senior and 39 tackles and 10sacks as a junior. He was a consensus All-American both years and the Pac-10 Player of the Year in 1995. Bruschi's intensity and speed off the ball made him a key component of the Arizona Wildcats' Desert Swarm defense. Critics thought his size might keep him from having a true NFL position because he is not big enough to play on the defensive line. But the Patriots thought differently and expect Bruschi to add some depth to the linebacker position.

Lets be creative guys and not peigon hole the guy because he was drafted under another regime or system. I would love to get a guy like AJ Hawk but maybe just maybe Jason could develop into something really special as the Texans MLB :confused: he has both the size, character, competitiveness & athleticism to play the position plus two years @ OLB a transistion to MLB maybe easier than y'all think :thumbup

One problem, Bruschi plays in a 3-4 scheme that values oversized LBs. Also, I like Babin as a player, but he is not even close to Bruschi regarding intangibles, heart, or brains. Babin to Bruschi is a pretty big leap, they are two very different players.

texasguy346
03-16-2006, 07:47 AM
I just made my own player fittingly named "Skull Krusher" for my MLB & he works out pretty good. JBabin @ MLB? .... not EVEN in Madden for me.

Skull Krusher? I like it. We should draft or sign this Skull Krusher immediately. As far as creating players on Madden goes I tend to use mob movie characters. What's not to love about seeing Tony Montana leveling WRs when they cross over the middle?

Marcus
03-16-2006, 07:55 AM
Yes, Fangio said "I want him bad" (no, that's not a Brokeback reference)

But, instead of simply being a hey boy, CC should have made a real GM decision and had the sense to tell Fang that no one in their right mind would trade back up into the first round and throw in a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick to take <cue ring announcer's voice> Jasonnnnn "the tat man tweenerrrr" Babinatorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Put a crystal ball in my back pocket, and I could be the best GM in the world. Hell, I'd even make a few bucks on the craps table.:rolleyes:

nunusguy
03-16-2006, 09:13 AM
One problem, Bruschi plays in a 3-4 scheme that values oversized LBs. Also, I like Babin as a player, but he is not even close to Bruschi regarding intangibles, heart, or brains. Babin to Bruschi is a pretty big leap, they are two very different players.
I dunno....why is it such a big leap ? I like the comparison. The big differences
are that Bruschi is a 10 yr NFL vet and plays on a far superior team.
Athletically, physical dimensions, etc they are very similar. And I'm gonna
guess he was a DE/tweener in college (don't know for a fact).
Babin is a hustler and a sound football player. Ditto for Bruschi.

O.G.
03-16-2006, 10:02 AM
I see no reason why the Texans would not look at Babin to fill the MLB position or that he could become another Tedy Bruschi type of ILB/MLB. His problem at end is he has trouble shedding linemen not TE's, Fullbacks, WR's or RB's.

despite your assertions he is above average in the speed department, maybe not elite but surely Bruschi material a 4.65 is good enough if you can change speed and cut which he can.

Bruschi, the third-round draft pick from Arizona, is Parcells' kind of guy. It doesn't matter that he's barely 6 feet. It didn't keep him from tying an NCAA Division I-A career sack record of 52, and that was as a defensive lineman. Parcells drafted him as a middle linebacker, a position Bruschi never had played. But after three days at that spot, Parcells moved Bruschi to outside linebacker, and he has been there ever since, except in certain nickel situations.

He had 56 tackles and 14 1/2 sacks as a senior and 39 tackles and 10sacks as a junior. He was a consensus All-American both years and the Pac-10 Player of the Year in 1995. Bruschi's intensity and speed off the ball made him a key component of the Arizona Wildcats' Desert Swarm defense. Critics thought his size might keep him from having a true NFL position because he is not big enough to play on the defensive line. But the Patriots thought differently and expect Bruschi to add some depth to the linebacker position.

Lets be creative guys and not peigon hole the guy because he was drafted under another regime or system. I would love to get a guy like AJ Hawk but maybe just maybe Jason could develop into something really special as the Texans MLB :confused: he has both the size, character, competitiveness & athleticism to play the position plus two years @ OLB a transistion to MLB maybe easier than y'all think :thumbup

Beat me to it, lol. All good points.

O.G.
03-16-2006, 10:07 AM
I dunno....why is it such a big leap ? I like the comparison. The big differences
are that Bruschi is a 10 yr NFL vet and plays on a far superior team.
Athletically, physical dimensions, etc they are very similar. And I'm gonna
guess he was a DE/tweener in college (don't know for a fact).
Babin is a hustler and a sound football player. Ditto for Bruschi.

He's a converted DE from Arizona

aj.
03-16-2006, 10:07 AM
Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Put a crystal ball in my back pocket, and I could be the best GM in the world. Hell, I'd even make a few bucks on the craps table.:rolleyes:

Hindsight hell. I remember where I was when Kennedy got shot, when the Challenger exploded, and when I heard Mort say (just before ESPN cut to break) that "the Texans traded back into the first to get someone they like so much that they traded the rest of their draft for him." I was pissed beyond belief - as many others were - and no one can convince me that it was worth it then or now. That cemented my dislike for Casserly right there - despite Fang's obvious role.

beerlover
03-16-2006, 10:41 AM
Hindsight hell. I remember where I was when Kennedy got shot, when the Challenger exploded, and when I heard Mort say (just before ESPN cut to break) that "the Texans traded back into the first to get someone they like so much that they traded the rest of their draft for him." I was pissed beyond belief - as many others were - and no one can convince me that it was worth it then or now. That cemented my dislike for Casserly right there - despite Fang's obvious role.

AMEN BROTHER :cool:

also I agree it makes sense that Babin becomes the Texans WWE. guess I'm still in denial & want to despertly believe that he can deliever some promise that had to be expected for such a lofty cost, that fatefull, humid, overcast April afternoon.:brickwall

that being said imagine if Jason Babin can pick up the reads, keeps his weight down to a lean sinewy mid 250 level his tackle numbers should explode, his potential to still sack/pressure the QB is there and the payload to the runner/reciever is considerably more consequential & devastating, hence there will be less inclination to attack the middle of the run defense. :superman:

Honoring Earl 34
03-16-2006, 11:35 AM
The Texans are pretty bad as a whole when it comes to LBs . I think Evans is a possibility for MLB ( he was a guard in college basketball at first ) . Where is Wong , Polk , Anderson , Greenwood , and who knows going to fit in . This is asssuming Peek and Babin are playing DE .

Erratic Assassin
03-16-2006, 07:03 PM
And they traded a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th for Babin. got damn

Casserly is a genius