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View Full Version : Undersized Rb ? Not Good Enough?


whiskeyrbl
03-15-2006, 12:00 PM
I don't know how many times i have read threads are say Reggie Bush is undersized,not worthy of the #1 pick.OK hang on I'm not preaching RB here just a comparison.In a recent thread i posted this but decided i make it it's own thread and let y'all decide.I researched on google the player profiles of the top % RB's in NFL history,this is the result:
PLAYER DRAFT RD PICK HEIGHT WEIGHT
Emmit Smith 1 17 5'9 209
Walter Payton 1 4 5'10 200
Barry Sanders 1 3 5'8 200
Erick Dickerson 1 2 6'3 220
Tony Dorsett 1 2 5'11 192

Reggie Bush Projected 1 Projected 1 6'0 200

Having looked at these comparisons as you can see 4 of the 5 were taken within the top 5 picks( without a down of NFL experience),also if you notice 4 of the 5 are shorter than 6'0 and 3 of the 5 are 200 lbs. or less.So lets put to rest the "He's not big enough" argument.Because by the list above i would say he is just about the right size.

TJFord
03-15-2006, 12:10 PM
So you're saying that RB is going to be a sure-fire HOFer? I just cannot believe that someone my size (6' 190) can consistently take on LBs and not have serious problems. At UT I often had classes with players and these guys are like giants...I would like to see guys who are not HOFers at RB's size, I am sure that there are more of them than the list you have here....

dat_boy_yec
03-15-2006, 12:14 PM
So you're saying that RB is going to be a sure-fire HOFer? I just cannot believe that someone my size (6' 190) can consistently take on LBs and not have serious problems. At UT I often had classes with players and these guys are like giants...I would like to see guys who are not HOFers at RB's size, I am sure that there are more of them than the list you have here....

He never said that, he just alluded to the size comments. Bush is actually 5'11'' 200 lbs. and if you have a hard time imagining someone smaller than you having success in the NFL look at Warrick Dunn of the Falcons. The guys tiny but he had close to 1500 yds last season.

whiskeyrbl
03-15-2006, 12:15 PM
No i'm not saying that at all,and i just checked the top 5.All i'm saying is that his size is equal or very close to some of the best backs to ever play the game.So his size should not be a determining factor on whether or not we draft him.

TJFord
03-15-2006, 12:34 PM
It is true that people at Bush's size have excelled in the NFL (I just cannot get over comparing prospects to the best players ever, even just their sizes). That being said, the majority of great running backs are considerably bigger than Reggie. When you are talking about picking someone that high, paying them large sums of our salary cap, basically betting on him being the future of the franchise you would like that person to be almost flawless. Case in point, many people doubted that Cadillac Williams could be a feature back and weighed 20 lbs more than Bush. The sole reason he wasn't drafted #1 (aside from the fact that RBs ARE a dime a dozen) was that he was considered smallish and had never carried the load before (sound familiar?). I do not doubt that Bush is going to be a stud, here is my basic take on him though: Bush can make a good team great or a mediocre team good, but I can't see him making a bad team much better. If we had a better line that could free Bush in open space it might be a different story. Also, yes I would love to see Vincent Yong play in H-town, but that really has no bearing on my RB assessment. If the Texans were smart they would trade down to fill a couple of more glaring needs...

tulexan
03-15-2006, 12:35 PM
Tiki Barber is almost the exact same height and weight and he was 2nd in the league for rushing yards last season.

latim06800
03-15-2006, 01:16 PM
People place way too much emphasis on size nowadays...If someone can play, I don't care what their size is...How many times have scouts, fans, sportswritters, etc. said that a player was too small to make it at the next level and they turn into being a stud because they know how to play the game??? Too many times for me to count....So stop already with the size crap...because that is all it is!!!! The guy can flat out play...Enough said!!!!

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 03:00 PM
Tiki Barber is almost the exact same height and weight and he was 2nd in the league for rushing yards last season.


didn't Tiki have a couple injury ridden seasons?? to start his career.

5'8" 200 lbs is bigger than 6'0" 200 lbs....... I know its hard to understand, but it is.

chuckm
03-15-2006, 03:03 PM
5'8" 200 lbs is bigger than 6'0" 200 lbs....... I know its hard to understand, but it is.


hmmmm so following this logic, you'd feel better about Bush if he were 5'2"? Maybe then he'd be a great inside runner ....

Porky
03-15-2006, 03:17 PM
didn't Tiki have a couple injury ridden seasons?? to start his career.

5'8" 200 lbs is bigger than 6'0" 200 lbs....... I know its hard to understand, but it is.

I here this guy is out of work, and at 4' 4" 150 lbs, he is bigger than Barber and Bush put together. He has a mean inside move and can really push the pile.

http://img.tfd.com/wiki/8/81/HerveVillechaize.jpg

Meskin
03-15-2006, 04:17 PM
that guy would be a great addition, but we would have to keep the roof closed to keep him focused. cause you know he can't keep his little peepers off of those damn planes.

mexican_texan
03-15-2006, 04:22 PM
hmmmm so following this logic, you'd feel better about Bush if he were 5'2"? Maybe then he'd be a great inside runner ....
Tiki has more body mass is what he's saying.

tulexan
03-15-2006, 04:29 PM
didn't Tiki have a couple injury ridden seasons?? to start his career.

5'8" 200 lbs is bigger than 6'0" 200 lbs....... I know its hard to understand, but it is.


Tiki Barber is listed at 5'10 200 lbs

Reggie Bush is measured at 5'10 7/8 201 lbs.

They are virtually the same height and weight.

Trap_Star
03-15-2006, 04:32 PM
Tiki Barber is listed at 5'10 200 lbs

Reggie Bush is measured at 5'10 7/8 201 lbs.

They are virtually the same height and weight.

I think Bush will be around 210 pounds by the time the season starts....

rmartin65
03-15-2006, 04:46 PM
He is denser if he is shorter but he same weight, as long as the weight is not fat. Density helps.

MorKnolle
03-15-2006, 05:32 PM
I think Bush will be around 210 pounds by the time the season starts....

I wouldn't count on that, if he only gained one pound from the season to the Combine I don't think he's going to gain much more weight. Gaining weight isn't as easy as just adding some pounds and playing the same, it can alter his quickness and also some people just play better at certain weights and adding or losing weight can alter their game, so I would not expect him to add weight just for the sake of making him "more durable".

tulexan
03-15-2006, 05:55 PM
He won't be at 210, but being at 200 is big enough. Bush isn't being asked to run the ball 30 times per game (no RB is asked to do that consistently). He will most likely run the ball 15 to 18 times per game and play the rest of the downs as a WR and returning punts. He is big enough to have a role like that and will be fine in the NFL.

Tiki Barber has had no problems with his size and neither has Warrick Dunn.

If Bush was 5'11 170 that would be one thing, but 5'11 200 is a pretty solid frame. Just look at him. He doesn't look like a weak person with a thin frame.

DominickDavisFan76
03-15-2006, 06:09 PM
actually at the combine he measured in at

5'10, 201, so that doesnt seemed undersized if he gets in the weight room and puts on a couple of pounds of muscle before the draft,

so he should be fine in the NFL

tulexan
03-15-2006, 06:12 PM
He isn't undersized right now. He isn't a big back, but he isn't too small either.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 10:55 PM
I here this guy is out of work, and at 4' 4" 150 lbs, he is bigger than Barber and Bush put together. He has a mean inside move and can really push the pile.

http://img.tfd.com/wiki/8/81/HerveVillechaize.jpg

What's his time in the 40??

my first reply, about Tiki Barber having injuries his first three years, had nothing to do with my second reply...... Someone used the fact that Tiki was the same size as Reggie. Earlier, someone said little guys will get likely get hurt. I was just putting the two ideas together.

I have no idea how tall Tiki Barber is....... or how much he weighs.... I'm just stating Fact.... shorter people carrying the same weight as taller people are considered bigger. 5'8" 200 is a "bigger" back, than 6'0" 200 lbs...... I'm 6'4" I weigh 280 lbs..... I'm a "big" guy...... If i were 5'11" and I weighed 280 lbs, I'd be a fat guy...

texplayer2
03-15-2006, 11:17 PM
What's his time in the 40??

...... I'm 6'4" I weigh 280 lbs..... I'm a "big" guy...... If i were 5'11" and I weighed 280 lbs, I'd be a fat guy...

What is your 40 time?:) Size only matters in head on collisions. You don't want to be in a compact and take on a semi. He will take some hits, but his speed and vision will help him avoid some of this durability stuff. The object of the game is to avoid defenders and score, not take on linemen and LB.

Big B Texan Fan
03-15-2006, 11:53 PM
Tiki Barber is almost the exact same height and weight and he was 2nd in the league for rushing yards last season.
Tiki was also a 2nd rd pick I believe. Another fine example of a quality RB taken without the use of a #1 overall.

mexican_texan
03-16-2006, 02:14 AM
Tiki was also a 2nd rd pick I believe. Another fine example of a quality RB taken without the use of a #1 overall.
Now that you mention it, the Giants got greedy and wanted 2 running backs, so they drafted a Heisman winning RB to have a 2 RB system. Worked out GREAT for them as it might for us.

thunderkyss
03-16-2006, 06:56 AM
What is your 40 time?:) Size only matters in head on collisions. You don't want to be in a compact and take on a semi. He will take some hits, but his speed and vision will help him avoid some of this durability stuff. The object of the game is to avoid defenders and score, not take on linemen and LB.

I have not said one word about Reggie Bush being too small........ in this thread. My comments were simply to help people undestand what is meant when they say REggie(or whoever) is too small. There is a list of 5 guys at the top of this thread.... who are under 6'0", or at 200 lbs & unders..... most of those guys are one or the other...... under 6'0" and 200 pounds, is a solid running back. Tony Dorsett is the only guy that's really comparable to Reggie's reported 6'0" 200 lbs, which is small in comparison..... if Reggie is reall 5'10" @ 200 lbs.... that's a nice size, and nothing to worry about....... it's not great, but not small. @ 5'10", I would like to see him closer to 215lbs... ala Cadillac who is 5'11" 217.... Personally, I like taller 6'1", 6'2" backs @ 225-230 lbs...... ala Terrell Davis, Corey Dillon, & Eddie George, or a guy who is huge, like Ricky Williams..... 5'10" 230lbs...

MorKnolle
03-16-2006, 07:34 PM
He won't be at 210, but being at 200 is big enough. Bush isn't being asked to run the ball 30 times per game (no RB is asked to do that consistently). He will most likely run the ball 15 to 18 times per game and play the rest of the downs as a WR and returning punts. He is big enough to have a role like that and will be fine in the NFL.

Tiki Barber has had no problems with his size and neither has Warrick Dunn.

If Bush was 5'11 170 that would be one thing, but 5'11 200 is a pretty solid frame. Just look at him. He doesn't look like a weak person with a thin frame.

I have not said one word about Reggie Bush being too small........ in this thread. My comments were simply to help people undestand what is meant when they say REggie(or whoever) is too small. There is a list of 5 guys at the top of this thread.... who are under 6'0", or at 200 lbs & unders..... most of those guys are one or the other...... under 6'0" and 200 pounds, is a solid running back. Tony Dorsett is the only guy that's really comparable to Reggie's reported 6'0" 200 lbs, which is small in comparison..... if Reggie is reall 5'10" @ 200 lbs.... that's a nice size, and nothing to worry about....... it's not great, but not small. @ 5'10", I would like to see him closer to 215lbs... ala Cadillac who is 5'11" 217.... Personally, I like taller 6'1", 6'2" backs @ 225-230 lbs...... ala Terrell Davis, Corey Dillon, & Eddie George, or a guy who is huge, like Ricky Williams..... 5'10" 230lbs...

Some RBs can just play without injuries at a smaller size. Players generally have an optimal weight that allows them to use their athleticism and abilities to the fullest potential, and gaining or losing weight from there can subtract from such attributes and make them more injury prone. If Bush's optimal weight is right at 200 lbs. then that's where he should stay, if he can benefit from gaining 5-10 lbs. then the position coaches, strength/conditioning coaches and Reggie need to figure that out and get his weight where it needs to be, but I think if that were the case he would have done it by now.

Bubbajwp
03-16-2006, 08:09 PM
Tiki was also a 2nd rd pick I believe. Another fine example of a quality RB taken without the use of a #1 overall.Maybe he fell to the second round because he is undersized just like clinton portis. Both had the talent to be first round picks but fell because people over estimate size.

MorKnolle
03-16-2006, 09:46 PM
Maybe he fell to the second round because he is undersized just like clinton portis. Both had the talent to be first round picks but fell because people over estimate size.

Didn't Portis have some off-field concerns too?

tulexan
03-16-2006, 09:50 PM
I've read that teams are moving more towards smaller backs than the traditional bruiser backs because of their versatility and speed.

thunderkyss
03-17-2006, 02:08 AM
Some RBs can just play without injuries at a smaller size. Players generally have an optimal weight that allows them to use their athleticism and abilities to the fullest potential, and gaining or losing weight from there can subtract from such attributes and make them more injury prone. If Bush's optimal weight is right at 200 lbs. then that's where he should stay, if he can benefit from gaining 5-10 lbs. then the position coaches, strength/conditioning coaches and Reggie need to figure that out and get his weight where it needs to be, but I think if that were the case he would have done it by now.


generally speaking, I don't look at the Backs size as an indication of his durability. Shaun Alexander, Eddie George, and Ricky Williams are guys I would say are the perfect size/weight for a running back(just my opinion, this is not an insult against Bush) but they've all had nagging injuries, especially at the beginning of their careers(Like DD). To me, that size is for power. Smaller Bigger guys like Ricky, with those Clydesdale looking thighs, who are already lower to the ground, are thought to have a leverage advantage.

But guys who are Warrick Dunn's & Dante Halls size I am surprised, that they don't get hurt. I mean they are tiny. I mean, they still shop in the "young men's" section.

barzilla
03-17-2006, 09:49 AM
I hate to break the news to all of you, but the little guy from Fantasy Island took his own life years ago. However, I guess you could do the same thing that SI was talking about the Celtics doing with Len Bias. However, that is a bad road to go down.........

As far as Bush is concerned, I'm actually glad he isn't 6'0". It seems 5'10" is the prototypical size in the NFL these days.