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TexanFanInCC
03-14-2006, 05:11 AM
1. we have an offensive minded coaching staff (check)
2. we do add john runyan to the OL
3. we draft reggie bush
4. we sign jeb putzier

david carr will have more favorable playcalling, a better line with better blocking schemes, a running game that should be really good, a recieving TE as the safety valve. with the recievers he has, the better blocking, the versitility of reggie bush to be used as a RB or WR, a better recieving FB jameel cook, and the offensive mindfulness of the staff...if david carr is not producing good numbers after week 3, do the texans make a change?? what happens?

HJam72
03-14-2006, 06:00 AM
1. we have an offensive minded coaching staff (check)
2. we do add john runyan to the OL
3. we draft reggie bush
4. we sign jeb putzier

david carr will have more favorable playcalling, a better line with better blocking schemes, a running game that should be really good, a recieving TE as the safety valve. with the recievers he has, the better blocking, the versitility of reggie bush to be used as a RB or WR, a better recieving FB jameel cook, and the offensive mindfulness of the staff...if david carr is not producing good numbers after week 3, do the texans make a change?? what happens?

Now, wait a minute. Don't forget that we still have to give him 4 more years to see if all this works for him or not. :tomato:

Coach C.
03-14-2006, 06:39 AM
No we dont. Bottomline if Carr gets the system he will be successful and if he does not then he wont. Either way in a year or two Kubiak will make the call. I am more worried about the defense. Offense most of the time puts fans in the seats, but defenses win championships. I want hardware baby... All I want is Carr to perform like he did in the first half of the Arizona game against a majority of teams and then sit back and watch the Defense finish the game off.

bkimble
03-14-2006, 08:03 AM
Dave Carr isn't a good QB, in fact he's one of the worst QB in the league. I don't understand you people. Get real. The two people who think Dave Carr is any good are, Charley C and Bob McNair. Why do we continue make excuses for this guy?

:redtowel:

HomeBred_Texan
03-14-2006, 08:08 AM
Why do we continue make excuses for this guy?
Because some of know he is better than VY, that's why..........

bkimble
03-14-2006, 08:37 AM
Because some of know he is better than VY, that's why..........


That's crazy! Dave Carr is better than Vince Young? Unbelieveable! Carr is the worst QB in the NFL and VY is the best player in this year's draft period, did you see the Rose Bowl? In two years we'll still be making excuses for Carr and VY will be the leading the Titains to the playoff. And as for as the wonderf___ test, what does a written test has to do with playing football; if you gave that same test to Charley C, he'd likely do well, however, if you asks him to evaluate a football player, lets just see:

1. Dave Carr (the worst qb in the league)
2. Jason Babin (the worst first round pick in football)
3. Phillip Bucannon (worst, period)
Should I go on? Nay, you get the picture.
:brickwall

Marcus
03-14-2006, 08:58 AM
Because some of know he is better than VY, that's why..........

That's what I love about this board. You go :fishing: here, and there will always be some guppy that swallows the hook.

:D

Kaiser Toro
03-14-2006, 09:01 AM
All I want is Carr to perform like he did in the first half of the Arizona game against a majority of teams and then sit back and watch the Defense finish the game off.

So you are asking him to do something more than once and expect him to do so even though he failed doing it a second time in 100 halves of work?

Just because a handy man has an awesome set of tools does not mean he has the most skill. :twocents:

Bubbajwp
03-14-2006, 09:09 AM
Come on people Jon Runyan is old overpayed and doesnt fit in our zone blocking scheme at all.

Yes Carr should improve this year but if you expect him to take us to the playoffs next year or even close to it you are sadly mistaken. Yes he has a offensive minded coach and possibly alot more talent around him but its still their first season together. Not a single player on our team knows what our playbook looks like.

OzzO
03-14-2006, 09:12 AM
bkimble, you're about 2 months too late. The other VY trolls have come and left already.

As for the original post - agree, the excuses stop after this year - assuiming what you noted above happens (or a close similarity - to have better play calling - coach or Carr, better line protection, and a few more recieving weapons). Just like the 2002 season, now is not the best time to bring in a new QB when the Texans have to make sure a majority of the surround pieces are in place first.

If he's not producing after week 3.... there will be questions raised (especially on the MB) but I think they'll stick with Carr longer - but there may be some behind the scenes discussion and possible avenues explored. Of course, depends on what the "production expectation" is. Are those numbers strictly Carr or the entire offense and how they're working together? I think a majority were happy with the steady improvement overall till "that year" happened... if they can get back on that track to where there is that steady improvement again, most will probably be appeased.

thunderkyss
03-14-2006, 09:24 AM
:deadhorse

all I want him to do is stop screwing up.

CanadianTexansFan
03-14-2006, 09:25 AM
As a Texans fan all the way up north in Canada, I rarely get to see my beloved Texans play. I have seen them in Buffalo this past season, and in that game, Carr was the only one playing with any emotion out there !!!
I may not see him enough to get a really good feel for him, but I like him as a QB, and think he has some real skills, that Coach Kubiak can really bring out.
He just needs a better O line, and play calling, and a runner like Bush to support him. Vince Young would not be a good fit in my opinion. Too many times over-hyped good College QB's fail in the NFL.
So stick with Carr, and make this fan in Canada happy !!!:twocents:

edo783
03-14-2006, 09:35 AM
If he has time (3.5-4 sec. in the pocket a consistant 85-90% of the time) and isn't getting crushed in 1.5 seconds, then I expect him to produce. It doesn't matter how good the play call is if ya don't have time to make it work.

Kaiser Toro
03-14-2006, 09:36 AM
As a Texans fan all the way up north in Canada, I rarely get to see my beloved Texans play. I have seen them in Buffalo this past season, and in that game, Carr was the only one playing with any emotion out there !!!
I may not see him enough to get a really good feel for him, but I like him as a QB, and think he has some real skills, that Coach Kubiak can really bring out.
He just needs a better O line, and play calling, and a runner like Bush to support him. Vince Young would not be a good fit in my opinion. Too many times over-hyped good College QB's fail in the NFL.
So stick with Carr, and make this fan in Canada happy !!!:twocents:

You were at the Bills game, do you remember the emotional play that is featured in my avatar? It still brings me to tears. :)

YoungTexanFan
03-14-2006, 10:02 AM
Dave Carr isn't a good QB, in fact he's one of the worst QB in the league. I don't understand you people. Get real. The two people who think Dave Carr is any good are, Charley C and Bob McNair. Why do we continue make excuses for this guy?

:redtowel:

You're joking right?


David Carr, when given the chance to run our team (only happened for a half), set a scoring record.

He is far better than Kyle Boller, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Kurt Warrener or Josh Mckowen, any of the dolphins QB's, whoever Oakland has, who ever the Saints have, whoever the Vikings have, whoever the Cowgirls have, whoever the Bills have....just to name a few off the top of my head.

So outside of your narrow mind, most scouts and professional people alike believe he will be sucessful if given the proper chance.

I've got a test for you, if you feel like anyone can do this. I want you to go stand on 1-10 with a football, when a car is with in 2 yards of you, I want you to take a three step drop. If you last 1.5 seconds, you can consider yourself lucky and you might be able to roll out into the next lane of traffic.

Kaiser Toro
03-14-2006, 10:07 AM
He is far better than Kyle Boller, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Kurt Warrener or Josh Mckowen, any of the dolphins QB's, whoever Oakland has, who ever the Saints have, whoever the Vikings have, whoever the Cowgirls have, whoever the Bills have....just to name a few off the top of my head.

Hold on a second professor. Is this your insight based on perfomance, forecast or hopecast? Far better? Check yourself before you wreck yourself. This is a bad arguement if you do not qualify, define and provide teeth.

jerek
03-14-2006, 10:10 AM
Dave Carr isn't a good QB, in fact he's one of the worst QB in the league. I don't understand you people. Get real. The two people who think Dave Carr is any good are, Charley C and Bob McNair. Why do we continue make excuses for this guy?

:redtowel:

Me three. At least your otherwise lame argument was brief.

Joe Texan
03-14-2006, 10:14 AM
Regardless of if he is good or a deer in headlights we will be seeing David Carr on the feild. We will be seeing Vince Young 2 time a year here and in tennessee. It will really get my goat if VY gets the ring for Bud But Knowing that VY is a Houstonian he just might tank the first 4 years and come to us when David has worn out his welcome. But untill then David Carr is the captian of this team and untill he is dethroned he will have my support. We are not getting Vince from what I hear from the people who know. So get ready for some Reggie ball and hang on. It will be a ride worth riding.

Go Texans

Frills
03-14-2006, 10:19 AM
That's crazy! Dave Carr is better than Vince Young? Unbelieveable! Carr is the worst QB in the NFL and VY is the best player in this year's draft period, did you see the Rose Bowl?




I heard about him at the combine...6 oops an astounding 16...I saw him at the White House...someone forgot muh suit...

The way he prepares and has great people around him is superb.

In college he could get away with talent alone, college isn't the NFL.

YoungTexanFan
03-14-2006, 10:19 AM
Hold on a second professor. Is this your insight based on perfomance, forecast or hopecast? Far better? Check yourself before you wreck yourself. This is a bad arguement if you do not qualify, define and provide teeth.

I was basing my opinion on a few things: Watching the other teams QB's play, not just their team. Other team's fan base input that I've read. Professional's opinions and articles. But yes, I did throw in some of my own opinion. This is pre-FA. I dare yall to find a QB on any team I listed, pre-FA, who is better than Carr.

YoungTexanFan
03-14-2006, 10:21 AM
Me three. At least your otherwise lame argument was brief.

Four, and its the same argument we argued against 2 months ago jerek.

TexanFanInCC
03-14-2006, 10:23 AM
i think alot of u are missing the point of this thread. i dont know why we are talking about vince young. what im trying to get to is that this coming season will be david carr's "joey harrington" year. carr SHOULD have all the pieces in place now. (a recieving TE, better o-line, versitilie reggie bush as a RB or WR, and more safety blankets in passing game and fast guys to go down the field. if carr isnt producing numbers, then would the texans let rosenfels get a snap or 2?? do the texans decide they want to draft a QB in later rounds. i have gotten the impression that david carr makes excuses and is quick to blame everything on bad protection (which has been an issue, but not always) carr needs to show me that he wont take more than 6 seconds to find a wide open reciever. there were plenty of times last yr when the commentators would put alot of emphasis on carrs failure to find guys down the middle of the field wide open b4 eventually scrambling out of bounds.

YoungTexanFan
03-14-2006, 10:29 AM
i think alot of u are missing the point of this thread. i dont know why we are talking about vince young. what im trying to get to is that this coming season will be david carr's "joey harrington" year. carr SHOULD have all the pieces in place now. (a recieving TE, better o-line, versitilie reggie bush as a RB or WR, and more safety blankets in passing game and fast guys to go down the field. if carr isnt producing numbers, then would the texans let rosenfels get a snap or 2?? do the texans decide they want to draft a QB in later rounds. i have gotten the impression that david carr makes excuses and is quick to blame everything on bad protection (which has been an issue, but not always) carr needs to show me that he wont take more than 6 seconds to find a wide open reciever. there were plenty of times last yr when the commentators would put alot of emphasis on carrs failure to find guys down the middle of the field wide open b4 eventually scrambling out of bounds.


I want you to go read a manual on "rocket science." Then I want you to remember it for 4 years. Now, I want you to forget every piece of that and learn this new manual, "Complete Organic Chemistry." I want you to digest this and be ready to recite it on que in 2 months. Ready, GO!!

Get off him people. He will show more sucess but to think he will be perfect is a joke. He is here 3 more years regardless. But yes, he will show improvement when given some protection.


When was the last time you EVER saw Carr with 6 seconds to throw the ball? 7 on 7 does not count.

whiskeyrbl
03-14-2006, 12:01 PM
bkimble, you're about 2 months too late. The other VY trolls have come and left already.

As for the original post - agree, the excuses stop after this year - assuiming what you noted above happens (or a close similarity - to have better play calling - coach or Carr, better line protection, and a few more recieving weapons). Just like the 2002 season, now is not the best time to bring in a new QB when the Texans have to make sure a majority of the surround pieces are in place first.

If he's not producing after week 3.... there will be questions raised (especially on the MB) but I think they'll stick with Carr longer - but there may be some behind the scenes discussion and possible avenues explored. Of course, depends on what the "production expectation" is. Are those numbers strictly Carr or the entire offense and how they're working together? I think a majority were happy with the steady improvement overall till "that year" happened... if they can get back on that track to where there is that steady improvement again, most will probably be appeased.

I agree after this year no more excuses,week 3 will be to early to tell how he runs this new offense plus lets see who our first 3 opponents are,you know good D's disrupt good O's.I say give him at least 3/4 of the games .

thunderkyss
03-14-2006, 12:30 PM
You're joking right?


David Carr, when given the chance to run our team (only happened for a half), set a scoring record.

He is far better than Kyle Boller, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Kurt Warrener or Josh Mckowen, any of the dolphins QB's, whoever Oakland has, who ever the Saints have, whoever the Vikings have, whoever the Cowgirls have, whoever the Bills have....just to name a few off the top of my head.

So outside of your narrow mind, most scouts and professional people alike believe he will be sucessful if given the proper chance.

I've got a test for you, if you feel like anyone can do this. I want you to go stand on 1-10 with a football, when a car is with in 2 yards of you, I want you to take a three step drop. If you last 1.5 seconds, you can consider yourself lucky and you might be able to roll out into the next lane of traffic.


I'd take Drew Bledsoe, Kurt Warner, and Dante Culpepper any day.

You do know that in a 3 step drop, there is no reading right?? when the third foot hits the ground, the ball comes out...... The reciever is either there, or he isn't. he is open, or he isn't. The incomplete pass, the interception is his fault, not the QBs..... So with that in mind, if David Carr is sacked on a three step/1 step drop, he held the ball too long.

Lucky
03-14-2006, 12:38 PM
You do know that in a 3 step drop, there is no reading right?
The QB still has to read the safety. You can't just throw an interception if the play's not there. You have to eat the ball or make something happen.

texan279
03-14-2006, 12:47 PM
1. we have an offensive minded coaching staff (check)
2. we do add john runyan to the OL
3. we draft reggie bush
4. we sign jeb putzier

david carr will have more favorable playcalling, a better line with better blocking schemes, a running game that should be really good, a recieving TE as the safety valve. with the recievers he has, the better blocking, the versitility of reggie bush to be used as a RB or WR, a better recieving FB jameel cook, and the offensive mindfulness of the staff...if david carr is not producing good numbers after week 3, do the texans make a change?? what happens?

Do you really think that with our brand new coaching staff and first time head coach, by adding a 32 year old right tackle, a rookie RB, and a so-so TE, that if Carr doesn't produce stellar numbers by week 3 he should be benched? Don't forget we still don't have a #2 WR. The draft isn't even here and people are already talking about benching Carr...

texan279
03-14-2006, 12:52 PM
That's crazy! Dave Carr is better than Vince Young? Unbelieveable! Carr is the worst QB in the NFL and VY is the best player in this year's draft period, did you see the Rose Bowl? In two years we'll still be making excuses for Carr and VY will be the leading the Titains to the playoff. And as for as the wonderf___ test, what does a written test has to do with playing football; if you gave that same test to Charley C, he'd likely do well, however, if you asks him to evaluate a football player, lets just see:

1. Dave Carr (the worst qb in the league)
2. Jason Babin (the worst first round pick in football)
3. Phillip Bucannon (worst, period)
Should I go on? Nay, you get the picture.
:brickwall

Kind of a stretch there calling Carr the worst QB in the league and Babin the worst 1st round pick in football eh? I guess we could always bring in Joey Harrington, Josh McCown, or Aaron Brooks to replace Carr.

AustinJB
03-14-2006, 04:21 PM
Kind of a stretch there calling Carr the worst QB in the league and Babin the worst 1st round pick in football eh? I guess we could always bring in Joey Harrington, Josh McCown, or Aaron Brooks to replace Carr.

I guess we could....they probably wouldn't be an upgrade over Carr, but they wouldn't be any worse either....and w/ the exception of Harrington, they'd all be cheaper.

I know you're being sarcastic, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of us feel like Carr is on the same level as the QBs you mentioned. He may not be worse than them, but he's not any better at this point either IMO. He hasn't proven anything...what makes you think he is a better QB than those that you mentioned? Is it potential? Or is it simply the fact that "if you pay a QB that much money, he has to be good?"

Mycco
03-14-2006, 04:28 PM
Dave Carr isn't a good QB, in fact he's one of the worst QB in the league. I don't understand you people. Get real. The two people who think Dave Carr is any good are, Charley C and Bob McNair. Why do we continue make excuses for this guy?

:redtowel:

I'll cut for Carr. His potentlial is still untapped, b/c nobody on our O-line can remember a snap cound or block a parked car. You've seen what he can do w/ a little time in the pocket and it's pretty dam good if you ask me or anyone who actually sits through the 3 hours of beatings he took week to week. I soppose you would've drafted Joey Harrington....Get Real!

texan279
03-14-2006, 05:30 PM
I guess we could....they probably wouldn't be an upgrade over Carr, but they wouldn't be any worse either....and w/ the exception of Harrington, they'd all be cheaper.

I know you're being sarcastic, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of us feel like Carr is on the same level as the QBs you mentioned. He may not be worse than them, but he's not any better at this point either IMO. He hasn't proven anything...what makes you think he is a better QB than those that you mentioned? Is it potential? Or is it simply the fact that "if you pay a QB that much money, he has to be good?"

What makes you think he's worse or on the same level as any of the guys I mentioned?

el toro
03-14-2006, 05:43 PM
Carr has the talent, he just has not had the time. There's not really any way else to cut it. Kubiak worked wonders for Plummer, I don't see why we should assume that Carr won't benefit from his coaching. Obviously Kubiak has seen something salvageable in Carr. On most 3 step drops a defender already had 2 steps on him. Patience.

run-david-run
03-14-2006, 06:14 PM
So you are asking him to do something more than once and expect him to do so even though he failed doing it a second time in 100 halves of work?

Just because a handy man has an awesome set of tools does not mean he has the most skill. :twocents:
You know what the one special thing about the Arizona game, or rather, the Arizona first half? It wasn't the 24 points in the 2nd quarter, it wasnt the fact that we won, it was the fact that DC called the plays at the line of scrimmage, not Pendry, not Palmer, not Capers. How many other times has he done that?

By the way, in the second half, when Pendry took back the playcalling, we went three and out the first 3 times we had the ball and the only reason we scored another point is because Babin forced a fumble deep in Arizona territory.

And now you know the rest of the story....

Ibar_Harry
03-14-2006, 06:28 PM
You know what the one special thing about the Arizona game, or rather, the Arizona first half? It wasn't the 24 points in the 2nd quarter, it wasnt the fact that we won, it was the fact that DC called the plays at the line of scrimmage, not Pendry, not Palmer, not Capers. How many other times has he done that?

By the way, in the second half, when Pendry took back the playcalling, we went three and out the first 3 times we had the ball and the only reason we scored another point is because Babin forced a fumble deep in Arizona territory.

And now you know the rest of the story....

I believe from what we know that was the 1 and only 1 time he was allowed to do that and as stated once he was successful they immediately said no more. Is Carr capable of calling his own plays? I don't think anyone knows. What impressed me about that session was the fact that the players came back to the huddle offering insights and suggestions based on what was going on. They felt they were a part of the team. What they did ment something. It allowed Carr to adjust and of course the results were there. It was like the old times and Payton Manning style.

No, I'm not saying Carr is Manning, but I have always believed that the QB is the one who should be calling the plays. Occasional calls by the bench are understandable, but the QB is the leader and he sees the field from his perspective. The press box perspective is different from the QB's. What might look open from the press box might not look open to the QB. After all the defense is set up to make it difficult for the QB to be successful including such things as getting between the receiver and the QB to make it difficult to see the receiver.

Tulip
03-14-2006, 10:39 PM
There isn't any more slack in David Carr's rope - regardless of who the other 10 guys on the field are.

thunderkyss
03-14-2006, 10:53 PM
You know what the one special thing about the Arizona game, or rather, the Arizona first half? It wasn't the 24 points in the 2nd quarter, it wasnt the fact that we won, it was the fact that DC called the plays at the line of scrimmage, not Pendry, not Palmer, not Capers. How many other times has he done that?

By the way, in the second half, when Pendry took back the playcalling, we went three and out the first 3 times we had the ball and the only reason we scored another point is because Babin forced a fumble deep in Arizona territory.

And now you know the rest of the story....

I thought it was the Saint Louis Game that David Called the plays in the first half....... or was it all the games we scored more than 14 points that David Called the plays??

infantrycak
03-14-2006, 11:11 PM
I thought it was the Saint Louis Game that David Called the plays in the first half....... or was it all the games we scored more than 14 points that David Called the plays??

It was the Arizona game. Yet another example of mixed evidence--the Texans' greatest one half of scoring offense called by Carr (using the existing playbook) but against a sketchy D--although they were top half of the league in passing D and 24 points was just .2 points less than they normally gave up in a game.

Napa Auto Parts
03-14-2006, 11:12 PM
sorry to sound so pesimistic but Even if David had T.O Marvin harrison and randy moss and the KC chiefs O-line some of the posters on this MB would find a way to blame everyone but carr personally i hope if we are going to be stuck with David i hope he succeeds but im kind of dissapointed so far with our moves i dont see anything yet to help david out.

TexansTrueFan
03-14-2006, 11:22 PM
sorry to sound so pesimistic but Even if David had T.O Marvin harrison and randy moss and the KC chiefs O-line some of the posters on this MB would find a way to blame everyone but carr personally i hope if we are going to be stuck with David i hope he succeeds but im kind of dissapointed so far with our moves i dont see anything yet to help david out.


i'm sure kubiak has it all figured out, lets just see what he does before we jump the gun.:ok:

infantrycak
03-14-2006, 11:24 PM
sorry to sound so pesimistic but Even if David had T.O Marvin harrison and randy moss and the KC chiefs O-line some of the posters on this MB would find a way to blame everyone but carr personally i hope if we are going to be stuck with David i hope he succeeds but im kind of dissapointed so far with our moves i dont see anything yet to help david out.

Great post because it displays that some posters on this MB assume even if Carr had TO, Harrison, Moss and the KC OL there would be a need to blame someone. How about entertaining the chance Carr might be at least decent if the system and surrounding cast were well managed?

That said, I agree I am underwhelmed by their moves so far. I'm disappointed they didn't make a run at Antonio Bryant (69 rec, 1009 yds)--a cheap much better athlete than Givens (59 rec. 738 yds). Weaver seems solid, but a cap error--can't see the upgrade worth $5+ mil in dead space for Walker plus his contract. No moves on a CB. No moves on an ILB. A speculative FB and a back up QB--whoohoo.

thunderkyss
03-14-2006, 11:44 PM
Great post because it displays that some posters on this MB assume even if Carr had TO, Harrison, Moss and the KC OL there would be a need to blame someone. How about entertaining the chance Carr might be at least decent if the system and surrounding cast were well managed?



If our kicker kept missing from inside the 30, I'd blame the kicker for missing field goals from inside the 30. If our Offensive line looked unprepared and confused, I'd blame the offensive line for looking unprepared and confused. If our Wide Recievers dropped balls, I'd blame or Wide REcievers for dropping balls. If our running back kept fumbling the ball, I'd blame our running back for fumbling the ball.


If I can find one good reason to pay our QB an $8mil bonus, plus $5.25mil a year, then I'd pay him an $8mil bonus, and $5.25 mil/yr.

You might find it odd, but I think Signing Sage Rosenfell(sp) might have been the best thing we could do to fix our Offensive Line.

tulexan
03-14-2006, 11:55 PM
If our kicker kept missing from inside the 30, I'd blame the kicker for missing field goals from inside the 30. If our Offensive line looked unprepared and confused, I'd blame the offensive line for looking unprepared and confused. If our Wide Recievers dropped balls, I'd blame or Wide REcievers for dropping balls. If our running back kept fumbling the ball, I'd blame our running back for fumbling the ball.


Except for the running backs fumbling. All of this pretty much happened.

infantrycak
03-14-2006, 11:59 PM
If our kicker kept missing from inside the 30, I'd blame the kicker for missing field goals from inside the 30. If our Offensive line looked unprepared and confused, I'd blame the offensive line for looking unprepared and confused. If our Wide Recievers dropped balls, I'd blame or Wide REcievers for dropping balls. If our running back kept fumbling the ball, I'd blame our running back for fumbling the ball.


If I can find one good reason to pay our QB an $8mil bonus, plus $5.25mil a year, then I'd pay him an $8mil bonus, and $5.25 mil/yr.

You might find it odd, but I think Signing Sage Rosenfell(sp) might have been the best thing we could do to fix our Offensive Line.

I'm sorry, I fail to see how the above responds to my post in any fashion. By the way, those IF's above were reality last year--yet another example of what I was posting about.

Napa Auto Parts
03-15-2006, 12:00 AM
Except for the running backs fumbling. All of this pretty much happened.



DD at one point used to be a fumbling machine he had a bad little streak for about 3 or 4 straight games but hell that was about 2 seasons ago.

tulexan
03-15-2006, 12:02 AM
OK fine. then all of what thunderkyss said happened. I don't know where he was going with that one.

infantrycak
03-15-2006, 12:02 AM
DD at one point used to be a fumbling machine he had a bad little streak for about 3 or 4 straight games but hell that was about 2 seasons ago.

It was the 1st 2 games of 2004 and then he went thru the rest of the season and into 2005 without a fumble.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 12:08 AM
I'm sorry, I fail to see how the above responds to my post in any fashion. By the way, those IF's above were reality last year--yet another example of what I was posting about.
Great post because it displays that some posters on this MB assume even if Carr had TO, Harrison, Moss and the KC OL there would be a need to blame someone. How about entertaining the chance Carr might be at least decent if the system and surrounding cast were well managed?

That said, I agree I am underwhelmed by their moves so far. I'm disappointed they didn't make a run at Antonio Bryant (69 rec, 1009 yds)--a cheap much better athlete than Givens (59 rec. 738 yds). Weaver seems solid, but a cap error--can't see the upgrade worth $5+ mil in dead space for Walker plus his contract. No moves on a CB. No moves on an ILB. A speculative FB and a back up QB--whoohoo.

The first part of this post sounds like you believe people are throwing blame, just because they can..... that there is no reason to put blame on a certain individual.

That some of us are picking on Carr.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 12:13 AM
OK fine. then all of what thunderkyss said happened. I don't know where he was going with that one.


I wasn't trying to pick apart our season... I wasn't even trying to talk about the Texans..... I was just picking out things we can blame individuals for.


Like in the instance of David Carr.

While there are some who throw out accusations and exagerrations, simply because they want to draft Vince.

Then there are others who are honest about Carr's progression. Where he is, and where he should be.

Some folks Blame Carr, for our 2-12 season. Some believe he sacked himself. Some believe he has some room for improvement. Others believe he's got a long way to go.

Then there are those who think he is God incarnate, without flaw.

tulexan
03-15-2006, 12:19 AM
If our kicker kept missing from inside the 30, I'd blame the kicker for missing field goals from inside the 30. If our Offensive line looked unprepared and confused, I'd blame the offensive line for looking unprepared and confused. If our Wide Recievers dropped balls, I'd blame or Wide REcievers for dropping balls.

If I can find one good reason to pay our QB an $8mil bonus, plus $5.25mil a year, then I'd pay him an $8mil bonus, and $5.25 mil/yr.


You want one good reason? You just listed 3 good reasons. All of those reasons (and more) are why our record is 2-14.

texan279
03-15-2006, 12:20 AM
If our kicker kept missing from inside the 30, I'd blame the kicker for missing field goals from inside the 30. If our Offensive line looked unprepared and confused, I'd blame the offensive line for looking unprepared and confused. If our Wide Recievers dropped balls, I'd blame or Wide REcievers for dropping balls. If our running back kept fumbling the ball, I'd blame our running back for fumbling the ball.


If I can find one good reason to pay our QB an $8mil bonus, plus $5.25mil a year, then I'd pay him an $8mil bonus, and $5.25 mil/yr.

You might find it odd, but I think Signing Sage Rosenfell(sp) might have been the best thing we could do to fix our Offensive Line.

Our kicker did miss several chip shots last season, our wide receivers did drop balls last season (AJ and Bradford), and our offensive line did look unprepared and confused, and about 98% of the hate I see on this board is towards Carr himself. I am the only one from what I have read that has ever posted anything about AJ dropping balls last season and got no reponse, I take that back I think I got one response from someone who said it was ok for AJ to drop balls because he has been in the pro bowl before :confused: . Some here for whatever reason try and use Carr as the scapegoat for our TEAM. Seems whenever we lose for the most part people around here place the blame on Carr, no matter how bad the defense played, no matter how many balls were dropped, no matter how bad the offensive line played. I understand that most of the time in the NFL the QB is supposed to be "the face" or "the leader" of the team, but we cannot place 100% of this team's past failure on David Carr.

infantrycak
03-15-2006, 12:26 AM
The first part of this post sounds like you believe people are throwing blame, just because they can....

Sounds like? Geez must not have made that plain enough. How about this--people go overboard!!!! Carr has lot's of room for improvement. Acting like Carr has no chance of being successful with TO, Harrison, Moss and the KC OL would be a classic example of overboard.

that there is no reason to put blame on a certain individual.

That some of us are picking on Carr.

Yes there is reason to put blame on Carr. Yes some people are picking on Carr.

TJFord
03-15-2006, 01:05 AM
1) Carr is the face of the franchise.
2) With DD and AJ as weapons we should have won more than 2 games with just an average QB.
3) According to what I've read here and online we cannot give Carr away.

Based upon the foregoing I would have to say that those of you who do not even question the logic in re-signing this player long term are drinking the Kool-Aid. Is Carr the worst QB in the league? No. Has he shown even a reasonable amount of ability to think that he is at least solid? Debatable. The VY debate has so poisoned this board that we can't even have an important discusion about the direction of this team.

texan279
03-15-2006, 01:15 AM
1) Carr is the face of the franchise.
2) With DD and AJ as weapons we should have won more than 2 games with just an average QB.
3) According to what I've read here and online we cannot give Carr away.

Based upon the foregoing I would have to say that those of you who do not even question the logic in re-signing this player long term are drinking the Kool-Aid. Is Carr the worst QB in the league? No. Has he shown even a reasonable amount of ability to think that he is at least solid? Debatable. The VY debate has so poisoned this board that we can't even have an important discusion about the direction of this team.

DD missed 5 games last season and and AJ missed 3 games last season. And you say we should have won more than 2 games last season with an average QB? Do you really think we would have won more games with any other QB with the missed field goals, dropped balls, horrible offensive line play, and horrible defensive output?Look at how Culpepper did last season after losing Moss, of Favre after losing half of his offensive line and the other weapons around him. I guess our 2-14 record had nothing to do with our defense being ranked 31st in the NFL and our offense 30th.

jerek
03-15-2006, 01:20 AM
If our kicker kept missing from inside the 30, I'd blame the kicker for missing field goals from inside the 30. If our Offensive line looked unprepared and confused, I'd blame the offensive line for looking unprepared and confused. If our Wide Recievers dropped balls, I'd blame or Wide REcievers for dropping balls. If our running back kept fumbling the ball, I'd blame our running back for fumbling the ball.


If I can find one good reason to pay our QB an $8mil bonus, plus $5.25mil a year, then I'd pay him an $8mil bonus, and $5.25 mil/yr.

You might find it odd, but I think Signing Sage Rosenfell(sp) might have been the best thing we could do to fix our Offensive Line.

Did you watch our games last year? :shocked

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 01:25 AM
Some here for whatever reason try and use Carr as the scapegoat for our TEAM. Seems whenever we lose for the most part people around here place the blame on Carr, no matter how bad the defense played, no matter how many balls were dropped, no matter how bad the offensive line played. I understand that most of the time in the NFL the QB is supposed to be "the face" or "the leader" of the team, but we cannot place 100% of this team's past failure on David Carr.

If you were to start a thread...... "Why oh Why, did we resign Weary/Mckinney", you'd get a lot of posts supporting your position..... and several with solid reasons supporting the oposite. Same with Gaffney, and Bradford. There will be no arguing about Coleman, Hollings, Brown........ Then you'll have your gang of "cut them all, let's start from scratch" posters.....

But no one will ever think we went 2-14 because of Milford Brown...... or Marcus Coleman, or Gary Walker.......

But David?? Well, he is the QB...... he is the leader, he is the general. I'm not saying we are a 2-14 team because of David, but I don't think he is helping.

If you want to win a superbowl with David Carr, you're going to need 5 probowlers on the offensive line. 1 @ WR, and 1@ RB........ then you're going to need a top ten deffense, against the rush, and the pass.

A bit of an exagerration, I know. But if you build around mediocre talent, you'll be lucky to get a mediocre team.

As I mentioned above, David has his flaws, you know it. I know it. four years, as a starter, and he looks like a rookie. He can't handle pressure. NFL QBs should be able to handle pressure. They should be able to beat it every now and again. The worst defenses in the league make him look like a 3rd stringer.

We had a lot of problems on our team. But QB shouldn't have been one.

I watched a lot of Cowboy Games in 2005........ I'm not a big Drew Bledso fan, but he got pressured alot, by good teams. & he didn't look as bad as Carr. People want to bring up Indy, Denver, and Carolina...... Peyton, Jake, and Jake...... they'll point out that those QBs weren't very productive under similar situations... the difference, is that even in those situations, those guys looked like starting QBs...

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 01:27 AM
Did you watch our games last year? :shocked


Check my threads, I'm putting blame where the blame lies...... that includes on the QB...

wags
03-15-2006, 01:30 AM
The worst defenses in the league make him look like a 3rd stringer.

He actually does well against the worst defenses. It's the good defenses he struggles against.

texan279
03-15-2006, 01:32 AM
If you were to start a thread...... "Why oh Why, did we resign Weary/Mckinney", you'd get a lot of posts supporting your position..... and several with solid reasons supporting the oposite. Same with Gaffney, and Bradford. There will be no arguing about Coleman, Hollings, Brown........ Then you'll have your gang of "cut them all, let's start from scratch" posters.....

But no one will ever think we went 2-14 because of Milford Brown...... or Marcus Coleman, or Gary Walker.......

But David?? Well, he is the QB...... he is the leader, he is the general. I'm not saying we are a 2-14 team because of David, but I don't think he is helping.

If you want to win a superbowl with David Carr, you're going to need 5 probowlers on the offensive line. 1 @ WR, and 1@ RB........ then you're going to need a top ten deffense, against the rush, and the pass.

A bit of an exagerration, I know. But if you build around mediocre talent, you'll be lucky to get a mediocre team.

As I mentioned above, David has his flaws, you know it. I know it. four years, as a starter, and he looks like a rookie. He can't handle pressure. NFL QBs should be able to handle pressure. They should be able to beat it every now and again. The worst defenses in the league make him look like a 3rd stringer.

We had a lot of problems on our team. But QB shouldn't have been one.

I watched a lot of Cowboy Games in 2005........ I'm not a big Drew Brees fan, but he got pressured alot, by good teams. & he didn't look as bad as Carr. People want to bring up Indy, Denver, and Carolina...... Peyton, Jake, and Jake...... they'll point out that those QBs weren't very productive under similar situations... the difference, is that even in those situations, those guys looked like starting QBs...

Or if you put no talent around good talent you get a crappy team, or the Texans.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 01:34 AM
Look at how Culpepper did last season after losing Moss, of Favre after losing half of his offensive line and the other weapons around him. I guess our 2-14 record had nothing to do with our defense being ranked 31st in the NFL and our offense 30th.

Culpepper thought he was going to jail, spent alot of time working on his defense, and still had as good a season as Carr..... stat wise...

Favre had a better year than Carr....

Aarron Brooks was very comparable to Carr, and he was homeless........

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 01:38 AM
Or if you put no talent around good talent you get a crappy team, or the Texans.


so who are you calling no talent??

Kubiak isn't just keeping Carr. He's keeping AJ, Mathis, DD, Norris, Weary, Wiegart, McKinney, & Pitts.....

And Milford got picked up as a starter after only 3 days of FA, by a guy who's pretty good judging talent no less.

texan279
03-15-2006, 01:41 AM
He actually does well against the worst defenses. It's the good defenses he struggles against.

Carr was 16/26 for 167 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Pittsburgh's defense last season, 17/26 for 174 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Cincinatti's defense, 19/33 for 179 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Seattle's defense, 22/30 for 219 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Jacksonville's defense, 16/25 for 138 yards and 1 TD against Indy's defense last season, 25/34 for 293 yards 3 TD 1 INT against the Rams, 19/29 for 2 TD 1 INT against Jacksonville the 2nd game of the season. Pittsburgh's defense was ranked 4th in the NFL last season, Jacksonville 6th in the NFL, Indy 11th in the NFL. Doesn't look like struggling to me.

tulexan
03-15-2006, 01:44 AM
Culpepper

1564 yards 6 TDs 12 INTs 72.0 QB rating

Carr

2488 yards 14 TDs 11 INTs 77.2 QB rating

How is Culpepper better? Not only did he not throw as many TDs as INTs, he threw half as many TDs as INTs


Brooks

2882 yards 13 TDs 17 INTs 70.0 QB rating

Less TDs, more INTs, lower QB rating


Favre

3881 yards 20 TDs 29 INTs 70.9 QB rating

More TDs, more INTs, lower QB rating.

texan279
03-15-2006, 01:48 AM
Culpepper thought he was going to jail, spent alot of time working on his defense, and still had as good a season as Carr..... stat wise...

Favre had a better year than Carr....

Aarron Brooks was very comparable to Carr, and he was homeless........

Culpepper spent time working on his defense? :confused:

Carr 60.5 completion percentage, 2488 yards, 14 TD 11 INT QB rating 77.2
Culpepper 64.4 completion percentage, 1564 yards, 6 TD 12 INT QB rating 72.0, please tell me how Culpepper's season was equal to Carr's.


Carr 60.5 completion percentage, 2488 yards, 14 TD 11 INT QB rating 77.2
Favre 61.3 completion percentage, 3881 yards, 20 TD 29 INT QB rating 70.9
Please tell me how Favre had a better season than Carr.

Carr 60.5 completion percentage, 2488 yards, 14 TD 11 INT QB rating 77.2
Brooks 55.7 completion percentage 2882 yards 13 TD 17 INT QB rating 70.0
Please tell me how Brooks was comparable to Carr last season.

wags
03-15-2006, 01:50 AM
The Bengals and Rams have bad defenses. There's not much debate about that. Stat wise Carr doesn't look bad in the Pitt game, but everyone who watched that saw how he played.

I believe the Bills defense is good, but stat wise they were not so hot last year. That was probably Carr's worst game last year.

texan279
03-15-2006, 01:54 AM
so who are you calling no talent??
Kubiak isn't just keeping Carr. He's keeping AJ, Mathis, DD, Norris, Weary, Wiegart, McKinney, & Pitts.....

And Milford got picked up as a starter after only 3 days of FA, by a guy who's pretty good judging talent no less.

No #2 WR, no TE, no offensive line, no coaching, DD was out for 5 games last season and AJ 3 games. And one of the first things Kubiak does is move McKinney to left guard. Mathis of course you keep, he was a pro bowl special teamer his rookie season, but what did he do on offense? 5 catches for 65 yards.

texan279
03-15-2006, 01:57 AM
The Bengals and Rams have bad defenses. There's not much debate about that. Stat wise Carr doesn't look bad in the Pitt game, but everyone who watched that saw how he played.

I believe the Bills defense is good, but stat wise they were not so hot last year. That was probably Carr's worst game last year.


Cincinnati's defense led the NFL with 31 INT's last season, next closest defense was Minnesota's with 24. They also had the best turnover ratio in the NFL with +24.

wags
03-15-2006, 02:02 AM
Cincinnati's defense led the NFL with 31 INT's last season, next closest defense was Minnesota's with 24. They also had the best turnover ratio in the NFL with +24.

I'm a Carr fan and I hope he does really well this next year. Having said that I will bow out and let you fight the good fight.

texan279
03-15-2006, 02:05 AM
I'm a Carr fan and I hope he does really well this next year. Having said that I will bow out and let you fight the good fight.

I am a Carr fan, and I know he's not perfect. I just don't understand how some can place the blame of the entire team on his shoulders, and no I am not saying you or anyone else in particular.

Big B Texan Fan
03-15-2006, 02:48 AM
Carr was 16/26 for 167 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Pittsburgh's defense last season, 17/26 for 174 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Cincinatti's defense, 19/33 for 179 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Seattle's defense, 22/30 for 219 yards 1 TD and 0 INT against Jacksonville's defense, 16/25 for 138 yards and 1 TD against Indy's defense last season, 25/34 for 293 yards 3 TD 1 INT against the Rams, 19/29 for 2 TD 1 INT against Jacksonville the 2nd game of the season. Pittsburgh's defense was ranked 4th in the NFL last season, Jacksonville 6th in the NFL, Indy 11th in the NFL. Doesn't look like struggling to me.
Doesn't look average to me either.
On a scale of 1-5 with 3 being average, I'd have to give a grade of 2.
And oh by the way........
You accidently left of the sack totals!!!:spy:
Which could bring the grade to 1 or 0

Big B Texan Fan
03-15-2006, 03:08 AM
Doesn't look average to me either.
On a scale of 1-5 with 3 being average, I'd have to give a grade of 2.
And oh by the way........
You accidently left of the sack totals!!!:spy:
Which could bring the grade to 1 or 0
:read:
I found them.
In the Buff game, Pitt game, Cincy game, Sea game, Rams game, and bothe Indy games, and both Jags games:
44 sax
12 fumbles w/5 lost
6 interceptions
That's pathectic:sos: :bag:

texan279
03-15-2006, 03:11 AM
Doesn't look average to me either.
On a scale of 1-5 with 3 being average, I'd have to give a grade of 2.
And oh by the way........
You accidently left of the sack totals!!!:spy:
Which could bring the grade to 1 or 0

In the total of what I posted, Carr was 134/203, or 66% completion percentage, threw 10 Td's and 2 INT's in 7 games with a QB rating of 93.4 against the 4th ranked defense in the NFL, 6th ranked defense twice, 11th ranked defense, 17th ranked defense, and the defense who led the NFL in interceptions and tell me you would grade him below average?

Big B Texan Fan
03-15-2006, 03:57 AM
In the total of what I posted, Carr was 134/203, or 66% completion percentage, threw 10 Td's and 2 INT's in 7 games with a QB rating of 93.4 against the 4th ranked defense in the NFL, 6th ranked defense twice, 11th ranked defense, 17th ranked defense, and the defense who led the NFL in interceptions and tell me you would grade him below average?
If I was a CPU then no.
But I'm a human, who watches the games and looks at the whole peice of work, not just the ones that make him look a smidge above average.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 06:41 AM
Culpepper spent time working on his defense? :confused: Riverboat defense

Carr 60.5 completion percentage, 2488 yards, 14 TD 11 INT QB rating 77.2
Culpepper 64.4 completion percentage, 1564 yards, 6 TD 12 INT QB rating 72.0, please tell me how Culpepper's season was equal to Carr's. Dante only played 7 games..... the int #s are going to be a bit skewed..... Dante will give his reciever's an opportunity to go get the ball, where Carr is going to take the sack. Even though, most fans can tell when the int is the QBs fault, or the recievers.... but the stats don't show it.


Carr 60.5 completion percentage, 2488 yards, 14 TD 11 INT QB rating 77.2
Favre 61.3 completion percentage, 3881 yards, 20 TD 29 INT QB rating 70.9
Please tell me how Favre had a better season than Carr.The interceptions are going to look a bit skewed. Bret Favre will give his recievers the opportunity to go get the ball, while David will take the sack.... even though most fans/coaches can tell when the int is the QBs fault, or the recievers, even though they always show up in the QBs stats.

Carr 60.5 completion percentage, 2488 yards, 14 TD 11 INT QB rating 77.2
Brooks 55.7 completion percentage 2882 yards 13 TD 17 INT QB rating 70.0
Please tell me how Brooks was comparable to Carr last season.
The ints are a bit skewed. Aaron will give his recievers an opportunity to make a play, where Carr will take a sack, even though most people can tell when an int is a QBs fault, or a Recievers.... But the stat always show against the QB...

No #2 WR, no TE, no offensive line, no coaching, DD was out for 5 games last season and AJ 3 games. And one of the first things Kubiak does is move McKinney to left guard. Mathis of course you keep, he was a pro bowl special teamer his rookie season, but what did he do on offense? 5 catches for 65 yards.

so who are you calling no talent??

Kubiak isn't just keeping Carr. He's keeping AJ, Mathis, DD, Norris, Weary, Wiegart, McKinney, & Pitts.....

And Milford got picked up as a starter after only 3 days of FA, by a guy who's pretty good judging talent no less.

That's a lot more than "NO TALENT" McKinney was in the wrong spot, but other than that, the talent is there....... do we need probowlers at every spot??


In the total of what I posted, Carr was 134/203, or 66% completion percentage, threw 10 Td's and 2 INT's in 7 games with a QB rating of 93.4 against the 4th ranked defense in the NFL, 6th ranked defense twice, 11th ranked defense, 17th ranked defense, and the defense who led the NFL in interceptions and tell me you would grade him below average?

You've posted a bunch of games, with over 30 attempts... most around 200 yards.. only one game even close to 300.... so he's made a living dumping off to the safety valve. No game, with more than 2 TDs....... no game with 2 touchdowns.......

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 08:44 AM
You know what the one special thing about the Arizona game, or rather, the Arizona first half? It wasn't the 24 points in the 2nd quarter, it wasnt the fact that we won, it was the fact that DC called the plays at the line of scrimmage, not Pendry, not Palmer, not Capers. How many other times has he done that?

By the way, in the second half, when Pendry took back the playcalling, we went three and out the first 3 times we had the ball and the only reason we scored another point is because Babin forced a fumble deep in Arizona territory.

And now you know the rest of the story....

The story for me was that DC was calling his own plays and he only had confidence to throw hitches. Yeah I know, take what they give you. But let's face it, what were they playing for other than to have fun and take advantage of a situation wher they had control to show their talent, not more of the same? I can't stand that half, because our QB showed us what he thought he could do well and did not show me anything that would make me excited for the future.

People point to that moment as definitive proof that he is worth the money, when in fact a first year QB could muster up enough confidence to call and execute a 2 yard pass down the LOS. Spin all you like, but we do not have value at the QB position.

texan279
03-15-2006, 08:54 AM
The story for me was that DC was calling his own plays and he only had confidence to throw hitches. Yeah I know, take what they give you. But let's face it, what were they playing for other than to have fun and take advantage of a situation wher they had control to show their talent, not more of the same? I can't stand that half, because our QB showed us what he thought he could do well and did not show me anything that would make me excited for the future.

People point to that moment as definitive proof that he is worth the money, when in fact a first year QB could muster up enough confidence to call and execute a 2 yard pass down the LOS. Spin all you like, but we do not have value at the QB position.

I thought he was only allowed to call what was in the playbook? Aren't the hitches pretty much all he threw all season after Pendry took over as OC?

texan279
03-15-2006, 09:04 AM
Riverboat defense
Dante only played 7 games..... the int #s are going to be a bit skewed..... Dante will give his reciever's an opportunity to go get the ball, where Carr is going to take the sack. Even though, most fans can tell when the int is the QBs fault, or the recievers.... but the stats don't show it.

The interceptions are going to look a bit skewed. Bret Favre will give his recievers the opportunity to go get the ball, while David will take the sack.... even though most fans/coaches can tell when the int is the QBs fault, or the recievers, even though they always show up in the QBs stats.

The ints are a bit skewed. Aaron will give his recievers an opportunity to make a play, where Carr will take a sack, even though most people can tell when an int is a QBs fault, or a Recievers.... But the stat always show against the QB...





That's a lot more than "NO TALENT" McKinney was in the wrong spot, but other than that, the talent is there....... do we need probowlers at every spot??




You've posted a bunch of games, with over 30 attempts... most around 200 yards.. only one game even close to 300.... so he's made a living dumping off to the safety valve. No game, with more than 2 TDs....... no game with 2 touchdowns.......

If Carr is so quick to take a sack, how did he end up being the #2 rushing QB in the NFL behind only Michael Vick last season? And if you say the "talent is there", I guess we need not do anything else to our offensive line and not add anymore WR's or anymore TE since there is so much talent on the offensive side of the ball. And out of the games I posted, Carr had 2 games with 2 or more TD's. And as far as making a living off of dumping the ball off, what else can he do when the majority of pass plays called by Pendry were hitches and dump offs add on top of that the 2 seconds on average he has to get rid of the ball.

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 09:08 AM
I thought he was only allowed to call what was in the playbook? Aren't the hitches pretty much all he threw all season after Pendry took over as OC?

Unless all of our guys got 6's on their Wonderlic test I would think that they would have practiced other passing plays throughout the year that they could easily implement into a game plan based on their film work. Once again, why hand the controls to Carr to only allow him to throw 2 yard passes? It makes no sense if you are trying to see what he could actually do as we approached the extension.

texan279
03-15-2006, 09:11 AM
Unless all of our guys got 6's on their Wonderlic test I would think that they would have practiced other passing plays throughout the year that they could easily implement into a game plan based on their film work. Once again, why hand the controls to Carr to only allow him to throw 2 yard passes? It makes no sense if you are trying to see what he could actually do as we approached the extension.

I thought that was one of Pendry's goals coming in as offensive coordinator, to help Carr get rid of the ball quicker with 3 step drops and shorter routes. It has nothing to do with wonderlic scores when your offensive line can't keep defenders out of the backfield for more than 2 seconds.

chuckm
03-15-2006, 09:23 AM
I think it was the Rams game with the 24 first half points ... not Arizona ... heres the play by play for the first half scoring drives


1-10-HOU11 (11:23) D.Carr pass incomplete to J.Gaffney
2-10-HOU11 (11:17) D.Davis right guard to HST 15 for 4 yards
3-6-HOU15 (10:37) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to J.Gaffney to HST 24 for 9 yards (3 yards after catch.)
1-10-HOU24 (9:55) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at SL 43 for 33 yards (8 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL43 (9:26) D.Davis up the middle to SL 39 for 4 yards
2-6-STL39 (8:46) D.Davis left guard to SL 26 for 13 yards
1-10-STL26 (8:03) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at SL 15 for 11 yards (7 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL15 (7:25) J.Wells left guard to SL 5 for 10 yards
1-5-STL5 (6:40) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (6 yards after catch.)
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 0 HOU 7, Plays: 9 Yards: 89 Possession: 4:48.



1-10-HOU33 (2:07) D.Davis up the middle to HST 38 for 5 yards
2-5-HOU38 (1:31) D.Davis up the middle to HST 40 for 2 yards
3-3-HOU40 (:54) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 46 for 6 yards (5 yards after catch.)
1-10-HOU46 (:05) PENALTY on HST-A.Johnson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 46 - No Play.
1-15-HOU41 (15:00) D.Davis left guard to HST 41 for no gain
2-15-HOU41 (14:24) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 47 for 6 yards (4 yards after catch.)
3-9-HOU47 (13:40) (Shotgun) D.Carr up the middle to SL 43 for 10 yards
1-10-STL43 (12:57) D.Carr right end to SL 31 for 12 yards
1-10-STL31 (12:25) D.Davis right guard to SL 30 for 1 yard
2-9-STL30 (11:47) D.Carr pass incomplete to A.Johnson
3-9-STL30 (11:40) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to D.Davis for 30 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (QB Hit; 14 yards after catch.)
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 0 HOU 14, Plays: 10 Yards: 67 Possession: 5:34.


1-10-HOU35 (10:07) D.Carr pass to C.Bradford to HST 44 for 9 yards (3 yards after catch.)
2-1-HOU44 (9:28) D.Davis left guard to HST 45 for 1 yard
1-10-HOU45 (8:41) D.Carr pass incomplete to A.Johnson
2-10-HOU45 (8:35) D.Davis up the middle to HST 45 for no gain
3-10-HOU45 (7:56) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to J.Wells to SL 36 for 19 yards (17 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL36 (7:05) D.Davis pass incomplete to J.Gaffney
(Halfback option pass.)
2-10-STL36 (6:58) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson to SL 24 for 12 yards (4 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL24 (6:16) D.Davis right guard to SL 22 for 2 yards
2-8-STL22 (5:35) D.Carr left end ran ob at SL 16 for 6 yards
3-2-STL16 (5:00) D.Carr sacked at SL 21 for -5 yards
4-7-STL21 (4:29) K.Brown 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 0 HOU 17, Plays: 11 Yards: 44 Possession: 5:42.



1-10-STL29 (:45) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at SL 24 for 5 yards (No yards after catch.)
2-5-STL24 (:39) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson ran ob at SL 8 for 16 yards (No yards after catch.)
1-8-STL8 (:34) D.Davis left guard to SL 10 for -2 yards
2-10-STL10 (:29) D.Carr pass to C.Bradford for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 09:45 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20051218_ARI@HOU

It was the Arizona game where DC was handed the playbook.

DC in all his glory averaged 4.5 yards per attempt.

chuckm
03-15-2006, 09:46 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20051218_ARI@HOU

It was the Arizona game where DC was handed the playbook.

hmmm well so much for my memory ...

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 09:48 AM
hmmm well so much for my memory ...

Don't be hard on yourself. DC has not give us many memories on the field that we want to tell the kids about.

texan279
03-15-2006, 09:50 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20051218_ARI@HOU

It was the Arizona game where DC was handed the playbook.

DC in all his glory averaged 4.5 yards per attempt.

Does his average per attempt really matter? He got the job done and led the offense to a franchise record breaking 24 points in one half. We win the game and your worried about his yards per attempt...

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 09:54 AM
Does his average per attempt really matter? He got the job done and led the offense to a franchise record breaking 24 points in one half. We win the game and your worried about his yards per attempt...

No I am ecstatic about winning, it just is a reminder that when he was given the reins he managed the game well. You do not select someone at #1 to manage the game. You do not extend someone to be the highest paid player on the team to manage the game. We could just as easily have Sage do this for his 1 mill+ per year and take care of other factes of the game with the money we are paying DC.

texan279
03-15-2006, 09:57 AM
No I am ecstatic about winning, it just is a reminder that when he was given the reins he managed the game well. You do not select someone at #1 to manage the game. You do not extend someone to be the highest paid player on the team to manage the game. We could just as easily have Sage do this for his 1 mill+ per year and take care of other factes of the game with the money we are paying DC.

Andre Johnson has the biggest cap hit for 2006. I guess we should replace AJ with someone else since he only caught about half of the passes thrown to him last season...

chuckm
03-15-2006, 10:03 AM
went through some of the older posts to try and find more info about that game .... here's a post I came across from 11-28-2005


I mean we could have much worse than Carr. The kids got an arm, he's got the will to win, and he's not stupid. I think Carr can be doing alot better than the Houston Texans, and he'd be stupid(though I'd love it) if he decided to stay in Houston. The QB is not the problem, and that is one position you don't want to be trying to fill, while you are building a team.

I saw in this game, what I thought I was going to see all year. A team that was competitive, and explosive. DD had a good game, Wells was awesome, Andre is a stud, and he showed it..........Gafney didn't have his best game, if he did......we'd have won. Carr looked great, and I do mean Great, and the O-Line looked really good.


:)

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:05 AM
went through some of the older posts to try and find more info about that game .... here's a post I came across from 11-28-2005



:)

:spy:

Lucky
03-15-2006, 10:09 AM
Once again, why hand the controls to Carr to only allow him to throw 2 yard passes? It makes no sense if you are trying to see what he could actually do as we approached the extension.
Capers & Pendry did a lot of things that didn't make sense. That's why Gary Kubiak is now running the show. The previous staff was trying to save their jobs (as hard as that is to believe), not evaluate players who were due option bonuses. Joe Pendry thought that the best way to win was to throw 2 yard passes. His opinion no longer counts. Soon, we'll find out what Kubiak thinks.

The $8 million has been paid. Crying about that is pointless. And if you look around the league this offseason, 8 figure bonuses are being tossed at everyone with a chinstrap. That's the cost of doing business in the 21st century NFL.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 10:09 AM
If Carr is so quick to take a sack, how did he end up being the #2 rushing QB in the NFL behind only Michael Vick last season? And if you say the "talent is there", I guess we need not do anything else to our offensive line and not add anymore WR's or anymore TE since there is so much talent on the offensive side of the ball. And out of the games I posted, Carr had 2 games with 2 or more TD's.


Carr being #2 behind Vick for rushing yards for a QB, tells me Carr is almost as inept as Vick is in the passing game... When a QB leeves(leaves, or leives, (sp)) the pocket, he needs to be looking downfield. He needs to be making plays with his arm.

We'll probably bring in an Olineman(center) through FA....... the only one we've looked at so far. And one through the Draft.... think high second round.

And as far as making a living off of dumping the ball off, what else can he do when the majority of pass plays called by Pendry were hitches and dump offs add on top of that the 2 seconds on average he has to get rid of the ball. I'd be happy with anything other than the fetal position.

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 10:16 AM
Andre Johnson has the biggest cap hit for 2006. I guess we should replace AJ with someone else since he only caught about half of the passes thrown to him last season...

Sure if you think so. It is my opinion, and most likley in the minority, that AJ has more upside than DC. Then there is the whole thing of AJ needing someone to get thim the ball.

I have been consistent on my takes that is irresponsible to have your top two paid players to be offensive skill position players. We are about to make an even bigger mistake by adding a third to the mix which will then represent ~23% of our total cap.

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:17 AM
Carr being #2 behind Vick for rushing yards for a QB, tells me Carr is almost as inept as Vick is in the passing game... When a QB leeves(leaves, or leives, (sp)) the pocket, he needs to be looking downfield. He needs to be making plays with his arm.

We'll probably bring in an Olineman(center) through FA....... the only one we've looked at so far. And one through the Draft.... think high second round.

I'd be happy with anything other than the fetal position.

How is he supposed to have time to make plays with his arm when he is running for his life most of the time. The guy has been sacked over 200 times in 4 seasons, has had no real #2 WR in 4 seasons, his #1 WR has been in and out with injury, and no TE, no offensive line, and he's supposed to make plays with his arm when he leaves the poket?

Lucky
03-15-2006, 10:19 AM
I have been consistent on my takes that is irresponsible to have your top two paid players to be offensive skill position players. We are about to make an even bigger mistake by adding a third to the mix which will then represent ~23% of our total cap.
Weren't Aikman-Smith-Irvin the top paid players on those Dallas SB teams?

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:19 AM
Sure if you think so. It is my opinion, and most likley in the minority, that AJ has more upside than DC. Then there is the whole thing of AJ needing someone to get thim the ball.

I have been consistent on my takes that is irresponsible to have your top two paid players to be offensive skill position players. We are about to make an even bigger mistake by adding a third to the mix which will then represent ~23% of our total cap.

So you are willing to pay more money to Andre Johnson than David Carr just because you think he has more upside? I saw many balls in AJ's hands last season that were dropped, but I guess he has more upside so it's OK to keep paying him the big bucks...

chuckm
03-15-2006, 10:20 AM
:spy:


watch it now .... don't make me go way back again ...


I heard this saying somewhere

"Re-Writing History Makes Liars Of Us All"

and it's soooooo true .....

texan279
03-15-2006, 10:21 AM
watch it now .... don't make me go way back again ...


I heard this saying somewhere

"Re-Writing History Makes Liars Of Us All"

and it's soooooo true .....

Hey I'll be the first to tell you I have flip flopped on several issues on here in the past 4 seasons. I was one of the ones calling for Carr to be benched either last preseason or the preseason before, can't remember which one.

chuckm
03-15-2006, 10:26 AM
Hey I'll be the first to tell you I have flip flopped on several issues on here in the past 4 seasons. I was one of the ones calling for Carr to be benched either last preseason or the preseason before, can't remember which one.

yea me too probably ..... I didn't go back looking for dirt, I was sure I'd heard something about the Rams game and then I came across that post .... and since he's always so negative about Carr I thought I'd give it a read ..... imagine my surprise ....

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 10:36 AM
The $8 million has been paid. Crying about that is pointless. And if you look around the league this offseason, 8 figure bonuses are being tossed at everyone with a chinstrap. That's the cost of doing business in the 21st century NFL.

Crying? Excellent choice of words for one that does not take in to account the history of our spending and what returns we see on it in order to form a vision of future acquisitions. Carr and his contract are part of our history and will be looked at once the Carr era is over. It is a baseline that we must look at in spending dollars moving forward. Do we go with a model in the future that spends money on unproven talent for the offense like we have done to date and apparently will continue to do so with Bush? Or do we start spending money on the trenches with unproven talent or veteran talent.

I am a trench guy and extremely conservative when it comes to spending money on bright and shiny things that do not have a track record. Crying is pointless? It is. Taking into consideration past actions and learning from them is priceless. But who needs vision when we have Carr and Ferens?

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 10:37 AM
Weren't Aikman-Smith-Irvin the top paid players on those Dallas SB teams?

I define everything by contracts that started in the cap era, you are more more than welcome to build a model that uses your example as it as zero relevance.

Lucky
03-15-2006, 10:42 AM
Carr and his contract are part of our history and will be looked at once the Carr era is over.
Over? The guy is 26. Kubiak hasn't had the opportunity to coach a game, yet. Why not wait to watch a couple of series before proclaiming the end of an era?

I'm a trench guy, too. Unfortunately, the $$$ the Texans have spent there hasn't produced results. Again, maybe the new staff can turn around the McKinneys, Wades, and Robaire Smiths. I'm willing to find out before becoming upset over cap problems that don't currently exist.

Coach C.
03-15-2006, 10:44 AM
I would guess the WAde era is pretty over here in Houston. Robaire will have to beat out TJ or Payne in order to start and Mckinney is our starter at LG. As far as the Carr contract not sure were KT was going with that one.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 10:48 AM
Hey I'll be the first to tell you I have flip flopped on several issues on here in the past 4 seasons. I was one of the ones calling for Carr to be benched either last preseason or the preseason before, can't remember which one.


that is not a flip flop...... that is not a flip flop.:redtowel:

I knew posts like that were going to hurt me in my argument. But.........

I've stated before, I never wanted to take Carr with the #1 pick in 2002. I wanted Joey Harrington(and still believe that would have worked out better for Joey, Carr, and the Texans). I am a fan of the Texans, so I will defend each and every Texan, especially during the regular season. I also mentioned the OLine as looking great in that game, and I defend our offensive line today.

If you dig deep enough, you'll see that my position is/has been to trade the #1 pick but because of all this Reggie Bush bowl crap, I decided to fortify my Vince young position by taking shots at Carr, that I wouldn't normally take. If you view some of my most recent posts, you'll see I'm trying to come to terms with taking Reggie.

Not much has changed since that post in November 2005. I still think David has a lot to work on. I still think we can win a lot of games for us. I don't think now, or then, that David is going to take us to the SuperBowl. I still would have loved to see how we'd look with Joey Harrington(starting since 2002, I think things would've been way different). If it weren't for signing Rosenfell(sp), I'd still rather take Vince with the #1 overall, and start David for the first half of 2006.

Soon as Training Camp starts, I won't mention the words Vince Young and the Texans in the same sentence again...... you can hold me to that. Heck, after signing Rosenfell(sp) I'm less inclined to do so now.

I will continue to give David a hard time, till Week 1.


That is not a flip flop.

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 10:53 AM
Over? The guy is 26. Kubiak hasn't had the opportunity to coach a game, yet. Why not wait to watch a couple of series before proclaiming the end of an era?

I'm a trench guy, too. Unfortunately, the $$$ the Texans have spent there hasn't produced results. Again, maybe the new staff can turn around the McKinneys, Wades, and Robaire Smiths. I'm willing to find out before becoming upset over cap problems that don't currently exist.

I am waiting to see what the Kubiak effect will look like as well. I am of the ilk that if Kubiak can't get it done then no one can. All things do come to an end, but planning must happen well before the end arrives. This is how I think, whether you want to call me a nervous nellie or one that this proactively thinking about solutions that fit our cap, our style, our personnel while balancing it with the macroeconomics of the NFL then I am cool with either.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 10:54 AM
I was also in support, and very vocal about it on the Cowboys forum, that keeping Quincy Carter till their Franchise back was made available to them without having to sell the farm.

I think Bill Parcells was with me 'till the drug problems surfaced. I feel the same way about Carr.... we've got a lot of other things to worry about. Till that Franchise QB is out there, that we have a legitimate claim to, with out having to sell the farm to get, we stay with Carr.

our farm would have to be sold now, that we've extended Carr's contract, and are paying Sage to challenge Carr.

Kaiser Toro
03-15-2006, 10:56 AM
As far as the Carr contract not sure were KT was going with that one.

Get me off this crazy thread or at least take the shovel out of my hands. I just need to move on as I do not believe in Carr nor the way we spend our dollars. All I can do is hope that it gets better.

adrianshrev
03-15-2006, 11:14 AM
Get me off this crazy thread or at least take the shovel out of my hands. I just need to move on as I do not believe in Carr nor the way we spend our dollars. All I can do is hope that it gets better.

as far as carr's contract it is kubiak who authorized it and he is trying to rebuild carr's confidence like it was when he was a rookie...the coaching last yr sucked period they were coaching not to lose rather than coaching to win..
i realize that all of you have got to go to the games i have had to dvr them so i could watch them and in the cincy game for example the rt didn't get out of his stance one play and carr was sacked... i think kub's is going to get the oline in the right position and mike sherman is going to put a ft in their collective butts if they can't do the job...that is my hope anyways...i hate the reggie pick i think taking d'brick or mario w/1st pick is alright if we can't trade down because that is what we need and who cares if we overpay at one of those positions when we need both and don't need a rb...good luck in the arguments to follow:redtowel:

Coach C.
03-15-2006, 11:20 AM
Ok KT I see what you were talking about now. We discussed this before we executed the option. Yes they should have just reworked the complete deal to reflect performance. I think they could have got him for a cheaper price over the next two years and then put an option in year three that would make him alot of money if he performed, plus load the first two years with reasonable roster bonuses and some reachable performance milestones and he would have made some good cash.

TJFord
03-15-2006, 11:36 AM
Jeez, I thought that VY got a lot of benefits from the Rose Bowl but he has nothing on "David's Miracle Half vs. 'Zona". It is truly sad that after 4 years of watching Carr the best thing to be said is that he had a good half in one of the two games we won last year. I do not think that anyone is saying that our record was entirley DC's fault, but I can't believe that half of you are saying unequivically (sp?) that he should not shoulder the blame. Look people the QB is the only player that touches the ball every snap and thus can impact the game more than any other player. Its real hard to blame a group of guys that nobody expected to be good, likewise it is hard to throw kudos to guy billed as a great player who has yet to break even in a season. I wish people were as patient with Steve Francis...

Runner
03-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Hey I'll be the first to tell you I have flip flopped on several issues on here in the past 4 seasons. I was one of the ones calling for Carr to be benched either last preseason or the preseason before, can't remember which one.

Flip flopping can be good. It shows the ability to consider new evidence and evaluate it, rather than keep hard headed opinions no matter what.

infantrycak
03-15-2006, 01:32 PM
Carr being #2 behind Vick for rushing yards for a QB, tells me Carr is almost as inept as Vick is in the passing game...

That's absolutely hilarious coming from a Vince Young fanatic.

SESupergenius
03-15-2006, 03:14 PM
When a QB leeves(leaves, or leives, (sp)) the pocket, he needs to be looking downfield. He needs to be making plays with his arm.

How many TD's did Young throw when he left the pocket against USC? You can't have your argument both ways.

thunderkyss
03-15-2006, 03:28 PM
That's absolutely hilarious coming from a Vince Young fanatic.
How so?? I've always said I'll take Young over Carr, because he plays better outside the pocket. I've always referred to how he keeps his eyes down the field, and mentioned several times that I am impressed by his abillity to look at different recieving options while on the move.


How many TD's did Young throw when he left the pocket against USC? You can't have your argument both ways.

I'm not saying Carr has to throw TD's, but there are times when he needs to create time for our recievers to get open, then make the big play down the field. Carr will be teed on, again, and again with little fear that he will beat the blitz. Vince will punish you if you blitz too often.

tsip
03-15-2006, 04:48 PM
Ok KT I see what you were talking about now. We discussed this before we executed the option. Yes they should have just reworked the complete deal to reflect performance. I think they could have got him for a cheaper price over the next two years and then put an option in year three that would make him alot of money if he performed, plus load the first two years with reasonable roster bonuses and some reachable performance milestones and he would have made some good cash.

Good post! This is what the team should have done with Carr's contract situation. I can not imagine that the 'higher-ups' in the organization even considered this '5th year' situation for Carr when he was drafted-surely, they had 'all-pro' play in their equation. So, why do they continue to 'treat' Carr with 'kid gloves?' Is he really that sensitive?

From day one, Carr was handed the starting job and no serious challenger has been brought in since then, nor were the QB's already here allowed to play.At an early point in its career, this team is putting it all on the line with Carr, declining to do anything that might have help 'push' Carr's performance to a higher level. In my management career, I was trained early on to want a #2 man that wanted my job and not be intimidated by their talents/desire/results. Having people under me with these talents and the oppurtunity to use them made me a better supervisor/person but-for some reason-the Texans must believe that Carr needs no help/push to not only be the best he can be but-most important-will achieve desired results on the field.

Certainly, time will tell, However, I believe the Texans could have done more to insure that Carr is 'mentally' prepared and motivated--handing him everything on a 'silver platter' may not have been the best choice. We'll see.

Lucky
03-15-2006, 05:02 PM
...Yes they should have just reworked the complete deal to reflect performance. I think they could have got him for a cheaper price over the next two years and then put an option in year three that would make him alot of money if he performed, plus load the first two years with reasonable roster bonuses and some reachable performance milestones and he would have made some good cash.
I think you are wrong. The Texans had to either exercise Carr's option, put a franchise or transition tag on him, or allow David to enter free agency. Where he would have received more guaranteed money than he got from the Texans. Carr had the leverage, the Texans didn't. There was absolutely no reason to accept less than the 3 year, $ 25 million he got from the Texans. Look at the prices now being paid free agents and you'll see that's true.

Coach C.
03-15-2006, 05:09 PM
Lucky at the time FA was not there and Carr wanted to be here, I am not saying he would not get the 8M bonus that would have been guaranteed money to him. I am saying we restructure the contract to a longer term deal that has some outs. It would be similar to how Denver first structued Jake Plummer's contract when they brought him in.

Second Honeymoon
03-15-2006, 06:43 PM
That's crazy! Dave Carr is better than Vince Young? Unbelieveable! Carr is the worst QB in the NFL and VY is the best player in this year's draft period, did you see the Rose Bowl? In two years we'll still be making excuses for Carr and VY will be the leading the Titains to the playoff. And as for as the wonderf___ test, what does a written test has to do with playing football; if you gave that same test to Charley C, he'd likely do well, however, if you asks him to evaluate a football player, lets just see:

1. Dave Carr (the worst qb in the league)
2. Jason Babin (the worst first round pick in football)
3. Phillip Bucannon (worst, period)
Should I go on? Nay, you get the picture.
:brickwall

sad thing is they dont get the picture, but its time to turn the page. everyone knows we arent drafting VY. anyone who is honest with themselves knows that Carr is at best a career backup getting paid franchise QB money. As long as we have so much money tied into Carr we will continue to be viewed as a joke in the NFL and a team NO ONE wants to come to unless we overpay to the Nth degree. Currently we are a less desirable football destination than any team in the NFL besides maybe Green Bay, Arizona and San Francisco. This is a sad fact due to our great facilities, good fan support and no state income tax/low cost of living in comparison to other cities. But if you want to blame someone blame Casserley and to a lesser extent McNair for not putting Mr.Acne in the unemployment line after a dismal 2-14 season and total ineptitude in the draft/Free Agency.

Thanks McNair, you just wasted $700 million dollars and would probably be lucky to get $450 million in its current state. Bad QB, Check. Bad Front Office, Check. Bad Players in the trenches, Check. Bad Free Agency Signing, Check. Bad Draft Picks, Check. Bad Team, Check.

That being said, if they can find a way to sign Runyan, all will be forgiven and maybe we can be the AFC version of the Bears and win with running game and good defense...oh wait, our defense sucks.

Doug from the Woodlands

Lucky
03-15-2006, 06:55 PM
...I am saying we restructure the contract to a longer term deal that has some outs.
At the time the Texans had to make a decision on the Carr option, a bonus could only be spread over 4 years. The Texans did spread the option bonus over 4 years, because they had '05 cap room left. And Carr didn't have to agree to the additional year contract, much less the outs for the Texans.

The Texans could redo the contract now, and spread a bonus over 6 seasons. But unless there would be much more $$$ up front, why would Carr agree to that? If you like Carr as the Texans QB in '06 (and Kubiak does), this was the contract that made sense. If they weren't sold on Carr, they should have cut him back in February, used the extra $$$ on free agents, looked at Brees & Culpepper, or start comparing Leinart to Young. That didn't happen.

Second Honeymoon
03-15-2006, 07:07 PM
i know i come off negative on a lot of things but I have come to start thinking Kubiak was a good choice as Head Coach and from listening to him on NFL Network and in interviews he seems committed to turning around things here with what works. He is working his butt off trying to come up with a new mindset and a new scheme for the team. I really feel he is putting his blood sweat and tears into rewarding McNair's faith in him.

Put it this way, when I saw the interview on NFL Network, the dude look tired and a bit haggard. THAT IS AWESOME. We dont ncessarily need a near obsessive compulsive 80-90s era Joe Gibbs type of fanaticsm/work ethic but I do feel he is really busting his buns to turn this ship around and probably feels embarassed of how the team looked on film when he watched video from last year. Put it this way, if this guy can find a way to morph Carr into a legit NFL starting QB we need to rename Reliant Stadium to Kubiak Field and give the dude keys to the city and anoint him mayor.

Prove me wrong about Carr, Mr.Kubiak!! Prove me wrong!!

doug from the woodlands

jgite
03-15-2006, 09:56 PM
I think you are wrong. The Texans had to either exercise Carr's option, put a franchise or transition tag on him, or allow David to enter free agency. Where he would have received more guaranteed money than he got from the Texans. Carr had the leverage, the Texans didn't. There was absolutely no reason to accept less than the 3 year, $ 25 million he got from the Texans. Look at the prices now being paid free agents and you'll see that's true.

I think that Carr didn't have any leverage in getting his bonus. That was purely the organization's decision. If they wanted to give him the two year deal then he would have had to accept it. That was the point the team was making when the bonus was being discussed.
IMO, I would have loved to have Vince Young learning the playbook and playing later. That is something that they should have done with Carr. I wasn't to keen on him as our #1 in 2002. But if that's who they wanted then I was gonna roll with the team. I'm still not convinced of D. Carr's ability to put his team on his back and win. I would like to either have VY or trade down. Since reality is setting in like with with most people on here, Bush is okay with me.
I don't like the way free agency has started (except Weaver). I didn't realize backup QB's can command that much.:confused: If Carr shows improvement above what he was doing 2004 and continues to get better. I can accept that. They still shouldn't have given him the entire 8 Mil.

HJam72
03-15-2006, 10:12 PM
I must admit, I'm pretty sure that Carr is not strong enough to carry an entire team on his back. Maybe a team of 3 yr. olds....nah. :)

texplayer2
03-15-2006, 11:57 PM
Regardless of if he is good or a deer in headlights we will be seeing David Carr on the feild. We will be seeing Vince Young 2 time a year here and in tennessee. It will really get my goat if VY gets the ring for Bud But Knowing that VY is a Houstonian he just might tank the first 4 years and come to us when David has worn out his welcome. But untill then David Carr is the captian of this team and untill he is dethroned he will have my support. We are not getting Vince from what I hear from the people who know. So get ready for some Reggie ball and hang on. It will be a ride worth riding.

Go Texans

I think the Titans will go with Lienert(Norm Chow connection) if the Saints don't trade down from two, with a team that wants him. We might not see Vince until we play the Jets one of these days. :superman::rolleyes:

threetoedpete
03-16-2006, 09:14 AM
1. we have an offensive minded coaching staff (check)
2. we do add john runyan to the OL
3. we draft reggie bush
4. we sign jeb putzier

david carr will have more favorable playcalling, a better line with better blocking schemes, a running game that should be really good, a recieving TE as the safety valve. with the recievers he has, the better blocking, the versitility of reggie bush to be used as a RB or WR, a better recieving FB jameel cook, and the offensive mindfulness of the staff...if david carr is not producing good numbers after week 3, do the texans make a change?? what happens?

Nice try....if you're counting going to war with this group of OL, it's not a better OL. It is a patch work OL. Even with the mossback Ryunyan added to the group. And has been a patch work OL since Boselli bombed out. Let's see Hutch just signed for how many millions in Minnesoooooda ?
What ever it is I bet you a coke our little band of warriors on the OL collectively don't match it. Zone scheme or not...tallent makes a difference. If they stand pat on the OL, this coaching staff would have earned their pay if they can keep DC upright an entire season with this group. Welcome to the big suck. Rb's going to be a stud at picking up the blitz, you know this because ?
Jeff is a good pick up simply for the fact once they sign him, he'll be the best prospect on the feild at TE. ..Not a stud mind you, but a servicable TE who can drag himself onto a football feild with out getting injured. If they are not producing good numers by week three they should of taken Brick and left the California kid alone. Lastly, a lot of people on this board were ready to pack it in with Carr from day one. This will be the year. I just hope you're giddy over the failure and enjoy yourselves. The rest of us have had a bellyfull of the whinning. Never know how good DC could of been. What I do know for a fact is that he has had no support from this organization. And they're going to do it to him again this year. They're going to stand pat with this group. Mind boggeling. I hope he ends up on his feet and kicks the beJesus out of us every time he faces us.
It wasn't that Carr wasn't good enough for us. It was we weren't good enough for him.

thunderkyss
03-16-2006, 09:44 AM
And has been a patch work OL since Boselli bombed out.

it's been patchwork since Boselli bombed?? didn't we put our very own First day pick in his spot??

texan279
03-16-2006, 09:46 AM
it's been patchwork since Boselli bombed?? didn't we put our very own First day pick in his spot??

He said the offensive line has been a patchwork job since Boselli bombed, not the LT spot...

SESupergenius
03-16-2006, 11:55 AM
it's been patchwork since Boselli bombed?? didn't we put our very own First day pick in his spot??
Since there are 5 guys on the line and Pitts was supposed to compliment Boselli on the line, losing Boselli cost us. The pathwork happend because we kept getting put off on the date he was coming back. Conspiracy theorists believe however that the Texans management knew all along that he wasn't coming back and what a great deal we got in getting Payne and Walker. :spy: :ok: