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View Full Version : Why not draft defense?


beerlover
03-11-2006, 12:26 PM
because looking at the last two drafts that was the Texans focus & what did it produce? the last rated run defense and total defense in the NFL. The Texans ignored the offensive line until the 5th round of the 2005 draft (Hodgdon) & a pair of offensive playmakers in the 3rd & 4th rounds (Morency & Mathis). meanwhile stocking or depleting the cupboards bare depending on your interpretation with more defensive talent. With the coaching regime changed look for immediate improvement. Just to flash back lets look at how much over the last two years in the draft the Texans gave up or moved up to add defensive playmakers.

2004-
# 10th Dunta Robinson, CB
# 27th Jason Babin, DE/OLB
# 40th trade up for Jason Babin, DE/OLB
# 71st trade up for Jason Babin, DE/OLB
#122 Glenn Earl, SS
# 170 Vontez Duff, CB
# 175 Jammal Lord, FS
# 200 Charlie Anderson, LB
#210 Raheem Orr, LB


2005-
# 16 Travis Johnson, DT
# 47 traded for Phillip Buchanon, CB
# 78 traded for Phillip Buchanon, CB
# 188 C.C. Brown, CB/FS
# 227 Kenneth Pettway, LB


all this talk about using the #1 overall pick in the NFL on a defensive player (Mario Williams) then again addressing the defense with a Safety (Simpson) or ILB (Abdul Hodge) in the 2nd would make David Carr roll over in his grave, when he could get offensive line help and a playmaker like Reggie Bush :Tumblewee

CITY CAT
03-11-2006, 02:42 PM
The Defense was just young, Sharper and Glenn and Coleman provided veteran leadership that is not replaceable. The defense was put in a bad situation this year because of the lackluster offense.

tulexan
03-11-2006, 02:54 PM
That's right. Offense and defense rely on each other. Good teams can give the impression that they have a better defense than they actually do with a good offense. Because when you have a high powered offense and build leads, it forces other teams to throw the ball more which results in inconsistent results. Look at the Bengals this year, the Trojans this year, and the Chiefs a few years ago. But, offenses also rely on defense because if the defense can give the offense good field position, it makes their job easier.

I think we should have a balanced approach to free agency and the draft. Build up both sides rather than just one.

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 03:43 PM
As a quick point, the 49ers handily beat us as the worst overall defense in the league, we were 31st, although we were last in run defense. That said, I was just checking defensive stats and found an interesting correlation between playoff teams and their ranking in run/pass defense:

Pass Defenses:
(Green Bay 1st)
(NY Jets 2nd)
(New Orleans 3rd)
Chicago 5th
Tampa Bay 6th
Jacksonville 7th
Carolina 9th
Washington 10th
Indianapolis 15th
Pittsburgh 16th
(Tennessee 17th)
(Houston 24th)
Seattle 25th
Cincinnati 26th
NY Giants 27th
Denver 29th
New England 31st

The 12 playoff teams had an average pass defense ranking of 17.2 (5 of 12 were worse than us including Super Bowl runner up Seattle and AFC runner up Denver). The teams with the top 5 picks in the draft are ranked relatively very high in pass defense, including the top 3 pass defenses in the league.

Run Defenses:
Denver 2nd
Pittsburgh 3rd
Carolina 4th
Seattle 5th
Tampa Bay 6th
New England 8th
Chicago 11th
NY Giants 12th
Washington 13th
Jacksonville 14th
Indianapolis 16th
Cincinnati 20th
(Tennessee 22nd)
(Green Bay 23rd)
(New Orleans 27th)
(NY Jets 29th)
(Houston 32nd)
The average run defense rank of the 12 playoff teams is 9.5 and the teams with the top 5 picks in the draft are all ranked lower in run defense than any of the playoff teams.

While bad teams will inevitably give up some more rushing yards as they are likely to be down a lot at the end of games and teams will run the ball more to run out the clock, it is still interesting to see how much higher the playoff teams rank in run defense than pass defense, and how much higher the worst 5 overall teams are ranked in pass defense than in rush defense.

beerlover
03-11-2006, 05:11 PM
my approach would be draft BPA & fill needs via Free Agency. hopefully the Texans can do a better job addressing both sides of the ball so when they're pick is due they can take the most complete dynamic best player available, so far they have clearly drafted for need first and ignored BPA :cool:

Reggie Bush is clearly the BPA in the 2006 NFL draft, soon it will be time to recognize :ok:

phan1
03-12-2006, 02:46 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing us draft D all the way after our first and second pick.

beerlover
03-12-2006, 07:39 AM
I'm still concerned about the offensive line & the Texans have yet to address via free agency. Each year until a solid unit was assembled the Texans should have drafted OL help in the first three rounds. Chester Pitts OT has been solid and our best lineman, drafted in 2002 2nd rd. very good move here by Casserly, next rd. selected G/C Fred Weary good idea but was he mis-judged or poorly handled/coached? things always don't turn out the way you'd like them to but I like the idea here. Milford Brown (G, Florida State) was taken in the 6th rd. of the Supplemental Draft & now he is a F/A last I heard & talking to other teams.

In 2003 the Texans lone OL drafted was Seth Wand in the 3rd rd. I also thought this to be a nice pick, a developmental LT in the latter rounds & thought he was progressing until Cappers/Pendry pulled the plug on him last season & we all know what happened since. 2004 nothing. aquired Todd Wade via F/A.

And last but not least 2005 and the Texans lone OL draft pick 5th rd. C Drew Hodgdon. Sorry guys but this just does not cut it when everyone knows they can just pin there ears back and force Carr to run for his life and leave 8 men in the box. The highest priority given to the OL was a 2nd rd. pick in 2002 & Chester Pitts is the best lineman the Texans have, makes sense doesn't it? It also makes sense the Texans need to draft a linemen again at least in the 2nd rd. whether its a starting tackle (Colledge/Winston) or stud Center (Mangold).

Bottom line- the offense has been neglegted both in skill players and core line players for the last two years & the reason why the Texans should not draft defense at least until the 3rd, unless something freaky happens like a BPA falls into the Texans laps like a Mathias Kiwanuka or Manny Lawson only then would I understand and accept passing on upgrading the offensive side of the equation :cool:

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 07:43 AM
Chester Pitts, McKinney, someone, someone, Weigert. Yeah does not inspire DC. Hopefully we address this need in FA. We are showing we are willing to grab some mid level talent so maybe there is one on the way. BTW Brown just signed a 4 year deal with the Cardnals. Weary likely would have been a good C but now he is likely a RG or LG reserve. Hopefully Chris Chester and Mangold or Eslinger fall into our lap.

CheckStation
03-12-2006, 11:13 AM
Obviously, our brilliant GM still has his fingers in the Pie. With the Texans in dire straights, desperately in need of quality personnel on both sides of the ball, we sign a Fullback. A position most NFL teams are eliminating (and for good reason).

Hey Front Office! Here is your shopping list (in order of need) from a fan that has attended every home game the Texans have played (if you can call it that…): Offensive Left Guard, Middle Linebacker, Offensive Right Tackle, Tight End, Cornerbacks (2), Strong Safety, Running Back.

Don’t even think about keeping your first pick. The Texans could have Bush and Shaun Alexander in the same backfield and still yield another 2 & 14 season.




because looking at the last two drafts that was the Texans focus & what did it produce? the last rated run defense and total defense in the NFL. The Texans ignored the offensive line until the 5th round of the 2005 draft (Hodgdon) & a pair of offensive playmakers in the 3rd & 4th rounds (Morency & Mathis). meanwhile stocking or depleting the cupboards bare depending on your interpretation with more defensive talent. With the coaching regime changed look for immediate improvement. Just to flash back lets look at how much over the last two years in the draft the Texans gave up or moved up to add defensive playmakers.

2004-
# 10th Dunta Robinson, CB
# 27th Jason Babin, DE/OLB
# 40th trade up for Jason Babin, DE/OLB
# 71st trade up for Jason Babin, DE/OLB
#122 Glenn Earl, SS
# 170 Vontez Duff, CB
# 175 Jammal Lord, FS
# 200 Charlie Anderson, LB
#210 Raheem Orr, LB


2005-
# 16 Travis Johnson, DT
# 47 traded for Phillip Buchanon, CB
# 78 traded for Phillip Buchanon, CB
# 188 C.C. Brown, CB/FS
# 227 Kenneth Pettway, LB


all this talk about using the #1 overall pick in the NFL on a defensive player (Mario Williams) then again addressing the defense with a Safety (Simpson) or ILB (Abdul Hodge) in the 2nd would make David Carr roll over in his grave, when he could get offensive line help and a playmaker like Reggie Bush :Tumblewee

Runner
03-12-2006, 11:29 AM
We are showing we are willing to grab some mid level talent so maybe there is one on the way.

The good news is an average player would be an upgrade in the middle of our line. We just need to keep the cost in line with the "averageness" for a change.

YoungTexanFan
03-12-2006, 11:49 AM
Obviously, our brilliant GM still has his fingers in the Pie. With the Texans in dire straights, desperately in need of quality personnel on both sides of the ball, we sign a Fullback. A position most NFL teams are eliminating (and for good reason).

Hey Front Office! Here is your shopping list (in order of need) from a fan that has attended every home game the Texans have played (if you can call it that…): Offensive Left Guard, Middle Linebacker, Offensive Right Tackle, Tight End, Cornerbacks (2), Strong Safety, Running Back.

Don’t even think about keeping your first pick. The Texans could have Bush and Shaun Alexander in the same backfield and still yield another 2 & 14 season.


You lie. You may have been at the games, but you obviously have not done a proper assesment of our teams' needs.

Most of our sacks come from the interior line. Our tandem of Weary and Brown were the worst in the league. When Mckinny plays out of position, he struggles too.

Most of the CB's (Daunta included) problems were merely the result of being stranded on an island for longer than anyone can cover with their back to the ball.

McKinny just moved to LG, where he proved he was above average as opposed to C.

SS is not a need at all for us. We have 2 SS's that start for us. We need a FS.

RT is not a need for us, as we have at least 3 guys that can play the position: Wade, Wand, and Weigert.

CB is not really a need either. At most we need a later round nickle back to replace faggins. Our currents CB's, when in a real system...will surprise people.

To say running back is a need at all is a joke. We have DD, signed to a new hefty contract. We have morency a 3rd round pick who is servicable. Wells, if he comes back, is only a third stringer. Then we have Cook who we just signed as a FB who will be able to handle a lot of the short yardage situations, along with our current FB, Moran Norris.

CheckStation
03-12-2006, 01:23 PM
I do not believe you and I have watched the same film. I respectfully, but strongly disagree.

McKinny appears to be always out of postion. CBs are cover two types, at best. Wand has been awful (but has potential). When the SS/FS try to rotate over, it has been almost comical. In addition, a true lack of closing speed on the strong side is a concern.

Anthony Weaver? He is slightly above average at his position, but he is not a dominate player. You would be hard pressed to find anyone in the NFL to disagree with that statement.

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Most of our sacks come from the interior line. Our tandem of Weary and Brown were the worst in the league. When Mckinny plays out of position, he struggles too.

Most of the CB's (Daunta included) problems were merely the result of being stranded on an island for longer than anyone can cover with their back to the ball.

McKinny just moved to LG, where he proved he was above average as opposed to C.

SS is not a need at all for us. We have 2 SS's that start for us. We need a FS.

RT is not a need for us, as we have at least 3 guys that can play the position: Wade, Wand, and Weigert.

CB is not really a need either. At most we need a later round nickle back to replace faggins. Our currents CB's, when in a real system...will surprise people.

To say running back is a need at all is a joke. We have DD, signed to a new hefty contract. We have morency a 3rd round pick who is servicable. Wells, if he comes back, is only a third stringer. Then we have Cook who we just signed as a FB who will be able to handle a lot of the short yardage situations, along with our current FB, Moran Norris.[/QUOTE]

dat_boy_yec
03-12-2006, 01:27 PM
I think we should draft balanced. If we take Bush then we should take the BPA defensively. Our D-line looks solid now. I think our biggest needs on D would be a MLB followed by FS and CB's. Even though I would like the MLB to be addressed in the second I think it's more than likely we can land Simpson or Bing both of these guys might fall and they would both definetely be a help. What do you all think. Am I crazy in this assessment.

YoungTexanFan
03-12-2006, 01:32 PM
I do not believe you and I have watched the same film. I respectfully, but strongly disagree.

McKinny appears to be always out of postion. CBs are cover two types, at best. Wand has been awful (but has potential). When the SS/FS try to rotate over, it has been almost comical. In addition, a true lack of closing speed on the strong side is a concern.

Anthony Weaver? He is slightly above average at his position, but he is not a dominate player. You would be hard pressed to find anyone in the NFL to disagree with that statement.


Thats the difference, I have reviewed the film where as you were simply at the game observing as it unfolded, most likely following the ball 90% of the time.

Daunta and Buchanon are not cover two type guys. Buchanon is a playmaker when allowed. He is not very good in zone.

Wand was never given a chance last year. To say he has not improved at all from his below average performance his first try is obsurd.

The problem is not the rotation of the safties, its the rotation of the S and CB. Closing speed is something that our safties lack because they lack top talent. Both however, are SS's. They are ideal for run support but very poor in coverage or ballhawking. Actually, Earl has good closing speed for a SS.

No one has said he was anything except average. He is a DE/DT. He will be moved inside on passing situations, just like they did in Baltimore. I never mentioned Weaver as more than adequate.