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samomin
03-11-2006, 12:54 AM
According to ESPN:

Dream Weaver: The Houston Texans are hot after Ravens defensive end Anthony Weaver. Weaver will be one of their first interviews, and the Texans are expected to try go sign him over the weekend.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2363621

Man they do really mean it when they say they won't be big players in free agency. I hope we go after a more established DE.

whiskeyrbl
03-11-2006, 12:57 AM
What a ste of ends that would be if we can sign Weaver then draft Super Mario!! Not a bad pair of bookends.:yahoo: :superman:

The Dude Abides
03-11-2006, 01:26 AM
He sure had a lot of DNP's this year..... Was he injured?

dirty steve
03-11-2006, 01:26 AM
According to ESPN:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2363621

Man they do really mean it when they say they won't be big players in free agency. I hope we go after a more established DE.

...and by "more established" do you mean John Abraham? maybe the new d-coaches like what they see in weaver. let's give them a chance.

samomin
03-11-2006, 01:45 AM
Well not somebody as high profile as Abraham. Proven might be the better word, I was looking at Kampman but he already re-signed. I guess I have a bad taste left from the previous coaches whenever there is a mention of "potential".

dirty steve
03-11-2006, 01:54 AM
scouting report from espn.com:

Weaver has adequate size for the position and the versatility to be able to move inside and play the tackle position. He has very good foot quickness and an explosive get off. He has good running ability, plays with a high level of energy and shows the ability to run plays down from the back side. He comes off the ball, plays with good leverage and shows that he has very good strength in both his upper and lower body. He is capable of controlling the line of scrimmage and you rarely see him get knocked off the ball. He has good hand placement and excellent use of his hands in shedding blockers and also in pass rush. He has a very strong bull rush, shows that he can collapse the pocket and has a good variety of pass rush techniques that he can use. He has very good play recognition, redirects to the ball well and has good closing speed to the quarterback. He has the foot quickness to be effective in executing line stunts and shows good body control and change of direction skills. He has good quickness and good running ability but does not do a good job of finishing plays. He lacks the ideal speed to be able to turn the corner as an edge rusher and is not the aggressive bone jarring tackler that you would like to see in the open field. He can hold his own in a one-on-one situation but needs to become more consistent verses a double-team block. Overall, he is a good steady player who is not clearly dominant as either a defensive end or as a defensive tackle.

aj.
03-11-2006, 08:48 AM
He sure had a lot of DNP's this year..... Was he injured?


12/14/2005 --- Questionable --- Knee/back
12/7/2005 --- Doubtful --- Back
12/2/2005 --- Probable --- Back
11/2/2005 --- Doubtful --- Toe
10/26/2005 --- Questionable --- Toe
10/19/2005 --- Out --- Toe
10/12/2005 --- Out --- Toe
10/5/2005 --- Out --- Toe

Looks like a Gary Walker in training.

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 08:54 AM
I want to believe that Reeves, Sherman, and Kubiak will curb Cass' impulse to spend on this mid-level joke of a small DT.

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2006, 08:57 AM
Weaver is a solid starting calibur strong-side DE. does not have a ton of untapped potential and probably not going to be a double digit sack guy, but is solid against the run and does get some push.

As for injury last year was the first time he missed significant time with injury over his 4 year career. Every team needs guy like Weaver, you just don't want to overpay for them.

Buffi2
03-11-2006, 08:57 AM
I'm going to keep the faith in the new coaches - but this little FA deal seems to have Casserly's name written all over it.

Aussie
03-11-2006, 09:02 AM
adding weaver would be fine to me cause he has descent talent but he aint no game breaker so it would have to be at a good price.

aj.
03-11-2006, 09:05 AM
... mid-level joke of a small DT.

Weaver, a former second-round pick, has been the Ravens' most consistent lineman since starting as a rookie in 2002. But he feels the Ravens are willing to let him walk based on the way (contract) negotiations have been going.

"I feel like I've been put on the back burner a little bit," Weaver said. "I don't take it personal. I'm not upset at the Ravens. It's just the way I see it."


http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.ravens03mar03,0,86472.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

bdiddy
03-11-2006, 09:06 AM
Weaver would be an upgrade to anyone on our roster at the strong-side DE position so I do not know why everyone is hating on him. The Texans are looking to upgrade multiple positions, just because they do not sign what fans preceive to be a big name does not mean the team is not getting better. Weaver has good strength and quickness. He will never be in the top 10 in the league in sacks, but is very effective against the run and is an adequate pass rushers. If we sign him, I would foresee he and Babin playing on running situations and then Peek coming in on the weak side on passing situations. DE is a VERY expensive position, I think this would be a good choice and could add value to the team at a need position.

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 09:09 AM
He was a decent 3-4 lineman when he was drafted. Why because he is a DT. That is what you pick for the 34 defense. Now that he was placed in the 43 it was all about Terrel Suggs. AJ so what are you trying to tell me. I know about Weaver have followed him for a minute now, thought he would be a good fit for us especially running the 34, but we dont run that defense. Look for him to hopefully land with Cleveland where he could be successful.

run-david-run
03-11-2006, 09:10 AM
I would be happy with Weaver. Played on one of the best defenses of all time and he plays a position we sorley need, Strong side DE. We need these type of players, unless we are going to draft Mario.

run-david-run
03-11-2006, 09:12 AM
He was a decent 3-4 lineman when he was drafted. Why because he is a DT. That is what you pick for the 34 defense. Now that he was placed in the 43 it was all about Terrel Suggs. AJ so what are you trying to tell me. I know about Weaver have followed him for a minute now, thought he would be a good fit for us especially running the 34, but we dont run that defense. Look for him to hopefully land with Cleveland where he could be successful.
The last two seasons have been the first time the Ravens have not had their base D out of a 43, if im no mistaken. He has played SDE in a 4-3 and has performed well.

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 09:17 AM
They just recently switched back to a 43-46 set. When he was drafted they were a 34 team.

bdiddy
03-11-2006, 09:18 AM
I am very familiar with Weaver as he played from where I went to college.

He played strong side DE his entire to at Notre Dame. Additionally, he was widely regarded as the strongest person on the team during his last two years. High character guy with a nonstop motor. I think he would be a good leader to help change some of the dynamics of the D-Line, namely led by whining Gary "my toe hurts" Walker.

aj.
03-11-2006, 09:36 AM
AJ so what are you trying to tell me. .

You called him a joke and the Ravens beat writer called him the Ravens most consistent linemen for the last four seasons. Just a little juxtaposition to inspire debate.

I haven't really watched him except for when the Ravens played the Texans so I don't have as much insight into the guy as others who regularly watch the Ravens might have.

beerlover
03-11-2006, 09:51 AM
I'm really hoping all this 43 talk is only a ruse and the Texans modify the 34 with the personel they already invested in, I see no reason why with good coaching the 34 cannot work here. just look at the last 4 or 5 Superbowls both Pittsburgh and New England use the 34. I don't know much about Weaver but to get him they'll have to pay millions :money: at least he seems to fit both schemes so when Walker is released :rolleyes: slid right into his role :twocents:

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 10:00 AM
Sounds good to me. The Texans have new coaches, so I am going to trust their judgment with FAs. Weaver could be a solid addition.

texansfan1974
03-11-2006, 10:15 AM
I like this. Weaver is an upgrade If we sign him this will be the best free agent move the Texans have made thus far in their short history. Lets all pray that it gets even better.:redtowel:

texasguy346
03-11-2006, 10:27 AM
I'm glad to see the Texans interested in Weaver. I'd been hoping that they would take a serious look at him. As others have mentioned he's a high-energy guy who's very good against the run, and he'd be a nice fit at strong side DE. I'd love to see the Texans pickup Mario in the draft as well, but that's yet to be seen. A DLine with Weaver, Smith, Johnson, & Williams would definately be a formidable one. I agree with AT also though, and I really don't want the Texans to throw a lot of money at the guy. If he can be had for a reasonable price then I'm all in, but if he's asking for mega bux then we can find someone else that comes at a cheaper price.

cuppacoffee
03-11-2006, 10:32 AM
I like this. Weaver is an upgrade If we sign him this will be the best free agent move the Texans have made thus far in their short history. Lets all pray that it gets even better.:redtowel:

Can never have too many Irish on your team. :ok:

But I may be a little biased. :)

:coffee:

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 10:39 AM
Well hopefully Weaver goes somewhere else. No need to pay for more money for a guy that will not live up to it. He could be our defense equivalent to Wade that would be great wouldn't it.

keyfro
03-11-2006, 11:08 AM
i don't understand why some of ya'll don't want weaver...we need a strong side DE and he fits the bill...he's shouldn't be an expensive FA for us...couldn't see them paying him more than 2 mill a year...plus he perfect for the system...on running downs he's in and on passing downs peek takes over...where's the problem

Vinny
03-11-2006, 11:14 AM
i don't understand why some of ya'll don't want weaver.It's just puzzling. He is another guy who may be more tackle than end in a 4-3....and he isn't that much different than the guys we already have who played the 3-4 end last year. So far we have extended Carr, extended McKinney, and went after a guy who is a little more of a Tackle than an end....just confusing where we are really headed with a roster revamp on the agenda. I guess he can play 4-3 end and play at a 'decent' level...but he won't be a double digit sacker...I don't think.

RT2
03-11-2006, 11:29 AM
Denver did just fine with a DE/DT Trevor Pryce. RT2

keyfro
03-11-2006, 11:58 AM
i tell you what...i just went to the ravens website...weaver isn't that impressive...but like i said he would be a good compliment to peek and orr as far as a run stuffing DE goes for them to switch in and out with...that being said i wouldn't spend a lot of money on him...another thing i noticed and i belive another member here might have mentioned him before but bart scott...ray lewis's back-up...he might be one heck of a find for somebody if he gets to start...just a thought but we need a MLB and he would be cheap for the first year or two

travfrancis
03-11-2006, 02:02 PM
not sure how a DE/DT tweener fits in at DE in a base cover 2 defense : \

dirty steve
03-11-2006, 02:45 PM
Jamison Hensley, of the Baltimore Sun, reports the Houston Texans have reached agreement on an undisclosed contract with free agent DE Anthony Weaver (Ravens). Weaver is expected to receive $13 million in guaranteed money.

sblueman
03-11-2006, 02:45 PM
Source: Jamison Hensley, Baltimore Sun [ Full Article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-ravens311,0,7763196.story?coll=bal-sports-football) ]

The Ravens have lost two starting defensive linemen on the first day of free agency.

Nose tackle Maake Kemoeatu agreed in principle with the Carolina Panthers and defensive end Tony Weaver reached a deal with the Houston Texans.

Kemoeatu, who was considered the Ravens' top priority, will sign a five-year, $23 million deal which includes $8 million in bonuses. Weaver is expected to receive $13 million in guaranteed money.

TexanFan881
03-11-2006, 02:47 PM
not sure how a DE/DT tweener fits in at DE in a base cover 2 defense : \

I guess we'll find out because we signed him :yahoo:

sblueman
03-11-2006, 02:49 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=19563

He's a Texan now.

the wonger need food
03-11-2006, 02:51 PM
Wow... 13 million guaranteed for a guy that averages about 3 sacks and 30 tackles a season when healthy. Here we go again... He and Greenwood must have the same agent.

Vinny
03-11-2006, 02:54 PM
Here is a link to a Baltimore fishwrap confirming it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-ravens311,0,7763196.story?coll=bal-sports-football

infantrycak
03-11-2006, 03:00 PM
Weaver is expected to receive $13 million in guaranteed money.

That better be a freakin' typo and they mean the contract is worth $13 mil.

Vinny
03-11-2006, 03:03 PM
Here is his profile page from his draftANALYSIS
Positives: Compactly built, with a thick neck, chest, shoulders and body frame that would be ideal in a 3-4 defensive alignment … Mature leader who has the sudden burst off the snap to quickly gain advantage … Holds his ground firmly vs. the trap blocks and double teams … Shows good second effort in pursuit … Has the functional strength needed to stop the ball carrier at the line of scrimmage … Uses his hands effectively to disengage when bull rushing … Has the short burst and extra surge needed to close on the quarterback … Has the lateral agility to step up and slip past blocks … Gets his hands up quickly to block the passer's vision at the line … Stays on his feet working through trash and shows a strong burst on the pass rush … Delivers a strong hand punch to prevent blockers from getting into his chest … Explodes through blocks and is very effective creating havoc coming off the edge.

Negatives: Has good power in his lower body (despite being knock-kneed), but runs upright and lacks the change of direction agility in pursuit (more suited for a straight-ahead charge) … Late to react coming off the snap, showing only adequate ability to locate the ball instantly … Has the arm strength, but will struggle to break through the containment as he has problems with his rip-and-swim moves working when trying to disengage (keeps his arms too close to the body rather than extending to jolt) … Does not have the suddenness to adjust on the move, needing to restart in order to get back to the play when he overpursues … More comfortable diagnosing pass plays, as he is very slow to locate the ball carrier when moving inline … Better playing in the box, as he tends to miss too many tackles working in space … His lack of lateral agility and size will see him move from college defensive end to tackle. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/weaver_anthony.htm

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 03:04 PM
Here is a link to a Baltimore fishwrap confirming it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-ravens311,0,7763196.story?coll=bal-sports-football

Geez Vinny, tell us how you really feel. Ha...just playin'.

Right now, I have faith in the new coaching staff, so I hope that these players that are being brought in are players the staff thinks will make a difference. I am excited.

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 03:07 PM
By the way, off topic kind of, but Bentley just signed with CLE, 6 year, 63 million I think.

Vinny
03-11-2006, 03:08 PM
Geez Vinny, tell us how you really feel. Ha...just playin'.

Hes a smaller, younger version of Gary Walker...but not as good as him (in each of their primes).

Johnny Utah
03-11-2006, 03:11 PM
I'm hoping it's a 5 year $13 million dollar contract.

tiger06
03-11-2006, 03:13 PM
I'm hoping it's a 5 year $13 million dollar contract.

yeah, 13 mil in guaranteed money seems too high for a guy like this.

Bubbajwp
03-11-2006, 03:16 PM
By the way, off topic kind of, but Bentley just signed with CLE, 6 year, 63 million I think.
I think it was 6 year 36 million.

aj.
03-11-2006, 03:18 PM
If they gave Weaver more than a $10 million signing bonus, I'm going to puke.

wags
03-11-2006, 03:23 PM
No way it's $13 million up front. Bentley got $12.5 and Keamotu(?) got $6 million up front. They are both bigger grabs than Weaver.

aj.
03-11-2006, 03:24 PM
You're talking about a GM who gave $11 million up front to Todd Wade.

I wonder if Kubiak is having second thoughts yet...

Runner
03-11-2006, 03:26 PM
What is everyone's opinon: does signing Weaver preclude us from taking Mario Wiliams?

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 03:27 PM
I think it was 6 year 36 million.

My bad, thanks for watching my ****

aj.
03-11-2006, 03:27 PM
---

aj.
03-11-2006, 03:28 PM
What is everyone's opinon: does signing Weaver preclude us from taking Mario Wiliams?
If what everyone is saying is correct, one is Julius Peppers and the other is a poor man's Gary Walker.

So.....I think they should be mutually exclusive decisions.

travfrancis
03-11-2006, 03:29 PM
:brickwall if this is true

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 03:30 PM
If this really is 13 mil guaranteed money, just goes to show once again that the Texans and teams like them have to pay a really steep premium in FA.
Also, after spending this kind of coin on a strong side DE, Mario Williams
instantanously becomes a much less likely choice for us in the Draft.

Dunta_23
03-11-2006, 03:31 PM
If it is 13 Mil up front then I am skeptical...but if is 5 years 13 Mil then that is a better deal...as of now we dont have any strongside DE so we need one...I dont think this has anything to do with Mario Williams at all...but we will see

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2006, 03:34 PM
Here is his profile page from his draft http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/weaver_anthony.htm

Here is Lenny P. current take

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2360759

"Established run defender who is more solid than spectacular and whose sack total (14½ in four seasons) might increase if he is able to get to a 4-3 team. Good strength for a guy who regularly plays in the 285-pound range. Fundamentally sound. Had some injuries in 2005."

We would want this to be true.

aj.
03-11-2006, 03:35 PM
The main injury that kept him out was a dislocated toe, which shouldn't be a carryover concern.

Runner
03-11-2006, 03:35 PM
If it is 13 Mil up front then I am skeptical...but if is 5 years 13 Mil then that is a better deal...as of now we dont have any strongside DE so we need one...I dont think this has anything to do with Mario Williams at all...but we will see

If it is $13M guaranteed, could some of be roster bonus(es) down the road and therefore only "guaranteed" if we keep him?

Vinny
03-11-2006, 03:36 PM
Here is Lenny P. current take

"Established run defender who is more solid than spectacular and whose sack total (14½ in four seasons) might increase if he is able to get to a 4-3 team. Good strength for a guy who regularly plays in the 285-pound range. Fundamentally sound. Had some injuries in 2005."Weaver is a good bull rusher like Walker is/was. Walker was also only about 285-295 when he came in to the NFL if I remember correctly, but Walker got considerably bigger over the years. I haven't watched 'most' of Weavers games by any strech but I haven't see too much of an edge rush from him when I did get to take in a Ratbird game.

keyfro
03-11-2006, 03:37 PM
weaver isn't a bad DE in my mind...13 million garenteed isn't really that much if it's over a long period of time...and since he's only been in the league for 4 years he has a lot of playing time left in him so i'm sure it's atleast a 5 year deal meaning he's probably going to average 2.6 mil a year but with contracts so back rated he'll probably start at around 800k then add on from there...he'll never see the full amount of the contract

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 03:43 PM
If what everyone is saying is correct, one is Julius Peppers and the other is a poor man's Gary Walker.

So.....I think they should be mutually exclusive decisions.

This is just a joke.
Maybe if Peppers and Walker mated, and had a kid, with less talent, maybe that's Weaver.

infantrycak
03-11-2006, 03:43 PM
If they gave Weaver more than a $10 million signing bonus, I'm going to puke.

After your done, do you know of a good source for tar and feathers?

Some DE signing bonuses:

Jevon Kearse--$12 mil
Derrick Burgess--$6 mil (16 sacks this year by the way)
Kyle van den Bosch--$5 mil
Adewale Ogunleye--$10 mil

This has got to come out as $5-7 mil or so signing bonus with some roster bonuses which aren't actually guaranteed for the remainder--hope, hope--doesn't it?

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2006, 03:44 PM
Weaver is a good bull rusher like Walker is/was. Walker was also only about 285-295 when he came in to the NFL if I remember correctly, but Walker got considerably bigger over the years. I haven't watched 'most' of Weavers games by any strech but I haven't see too much of an edge rush from him when I did get to take in a Ratbird game.

I don't mind Weaver the player as much as minding what seems to Weaver the contract. If anything Weaver has lost weight in the pros. Your assessment of his pass rush skills seem to agree with what I have seen and what I saw under ESPN's Insider.

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 03:49 PM
This is the most tangible evidence of the Texans desire and plan to take Bush, because this was arguably their biggest need and one of the BPA was
Williams who maybe was the only pure stong side DE among the top DL. And there's plenty of OL talent, so they can get a tackle with their second round pick and don't need to focus on Ferguson. We don't need a QB, so nothing left but to take Bush or trade it for just the pick but with no particular player targeted. In this way, the Texans now have more flexiblity in trading down
as they can now go much farther down.

yako0o
03-11-2006, 03:51 PM
Hey guys, Jet fan here.

I came here to see you opiniions because that 13m gaurenteed popped out on me.

It looks like you guys may not go to just a 4-3, it looks like 3-4 is in your future and most likely you guys will be using multiple fronts until you have the personal to go 4-3. Weaver helps that situaiton alot.

Anyway 13m may seem alot, BUT, wait and see what some other De's make before you compare them. Theres Carter, Abraham, Darren Howard etc. All those guys should make WAYYYYYYYY more then Weaver, so hold off your opinions if you overpaid or not till then.

If you see howard, or Carter coming in with a similar SB--Then there may be a time to flip out.

TheRealJoker
03-11-2006, 04:01 PM
I've always liked Weaver, ever since college. I think he will be a great dl against the run. Either moving inside or just coming out on passing downs and being replaced by either Peek or Babin.

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2006, 04:07 PM
This is the most tangible evidence of the Texans desire and plan to take Bush, because this was arguably their biggest need and one of the BPA was
Williams who maybe was the only pure stong side DE among the top DL. And there's plenty of OL talent, so they can get a tackle with their second round pick and don't need to focus on Ferguson. We don't need a QB, so nothing left but to take Bush or trade it for just the pick but with no particular player targeted. In this way, the Texans now have more flexiblity in trading down
as they can now go much farther down.

Disagree. I don't think it tells us anything more. Williams has the same type of speed and quickness that the guys who are 25-30 lighter at weakside end.

texan279
03-11-2006, 04:08 PM
Look at what Kendrick Clancy got...from www.kffl.com

TEMPE, Arizona (Ticker) - More than $25 million under the salary cap, the Arizona Cardinals signed defensive tackle Kendrick Clancy to a four-year contract on Saturday.

Financial terms were not disclosed, but Clancy reportedly received $8 million.

Clancy, 27, started 15 of 16 games for the New York Giants last season, recording 39 tackles, two sacks, two forced fumbles and one fumble recovery.

Clancy played in 53 games for the Pittsburgh Steelers from 2000-2004 and was signed by the Giants as an unrestricted free agent last offseason.

hot pickle
03-11-2006, 04:15 PM
for all those guys mad about giving the players a big signing bonus, look at are season last year, so you can't say houston is a hot spot for FA, so we will have to over spend on the players we sign, for example: look at the Toronto Blue Jays, they spent alot of money on A.J. burnett, and they over paid him, because thats the only way teams will get better is with better players, and if your not a playoff contender it makes it hard for players wanting to come to your team

texan279
03-11-2006, 04:18 PM
for all those guys mad about giving the players a big signing bonus, look at are season last year, so you can't say houston is a hot spot for FA, so we will have to over spend on the players we sign, for example: look at the Toronto Blue Jays, they spent alot of money on A.J. burnett, and they over paid him, because thats the only way teams will get better is with better players, and if your not a playoff contender it makes it hard for players wanting to come to your team

Arizona didn't have to overpay Clancy...

hot pickle
03-11-2006, 04:26 PM
yah, they got a good deal then, or maybe he wanted to play somewere with a warmer climate then NY

Grid
03-11-2006, 04:41 PM
I havent read this whole thread..so pardon me if im repeating what others have said... but..

I like this signing.. he is a solid DE.. he is from Abilene Tx, and ive heard it said that he only has 14 1/2 sacks in the 3-4.. but that that number could really go up if you put him in a 4-3. Hes young as well.

travfrancis
03-11-2006, 04:43 PM
^ you aren't at all repeating what others have said, you are pretty much the first to like this signing.

texan279
03-11-2006, 04:46 PM
^ you aren't at all repeating what others have said, you are pretty much the first to like this signing.

I don't think others do not like the signing, but the amount of guaranteed money involved...

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 04:48 PM
Disagree. I don't think it tells us anything more. Williams has the same type of speed and quickness that the guys who are 25-30 lighter at weakside end.
Until we made this deal, I don't think we had a strong side DE on our whole
roster. Now we do, and we made a very big investment in our new DE and he
might be our biggest FA deal in financial terms for our entire offseason.
He will be our starter next year, and since he's only 25, I would imagine the coachs expect him to start for us for several years. Therefor, I think its much, much more unlikely that we'd use our top pick on another player who plays Weavers exact same position. And we have players on our roster already who can play weakside DE.

travfrancis
03-11-2006, 04:53 PM
I don't think others do not like the signing, but the amount of guaranteed money involved...

the money involved is a large part of a free agent signing.

edo783
03-11-2006, 04:55 PM
John Clayton on ESPN radio just said it is 5 years for 13 Mill. Didn't say anything about it being garanteed.

Bubbajwp
03-11-2006, 04:59 PM
John Clayton on ESPN radio just said it is 5 years for 13 Mill. Didn't say anything about it being garanteed.
Now it sounds like a good deal.

Kaiser Toro
03-11-2006, 05:00 PM
I think I just threw up in my mouth. Weaver is a nice player and we need legit DE's if we go to the 4-3. 13 million bones is a lot of guaranteed money. I honestly did not think we would make a splash in FA, but this is potentially a belly flop if the contract does not have a trap door for us.

Kaiser Toro
03-11-2006, 05:01 PM
John Clayton on ESPN radio just said it is 5 years for 13 Mill. Didn't say anything about it being garanteed.

That is palatable. Definetly want to see what the details are.

Grid
03-11-2006, 05:07 PM
honestly.. I dont really care about what we paid at this point. We are an expansion team that finished worst in the league last season.. its going to take some convincing to get people to come to us. We have overpaid in the past and it has yet to come back and bite us.. i trust the FO in this.

GoBlue
03-11-2006, 05:09 PM
It fills a need- the guy just needs to be solid for that kind of money. We need to fill some holes through FA then spice it up through the draft with impact player (on both sides of the ball)

Texans Pride
03-11-2006, 05:12 PM
Ok...is anyone SURE about what we've paid...I've heard undisclosed, guaranteed, and not guaranteed.

Anyone read anything confirming or are we speculating?

Grid
03-11-2006, 05:13 PM
I think we are still speculating.. there has been info that looked legit..but there is too much contradictory info to say one way or the other at this point.

aj.
03-11-2006, 05:15 PM
honestly.. I dont really care about what we paid at this point. We are an expansion team that finished worst in the league last season.. its going to take some convincing to get people to come to us. We have overpaid in the past and it has yet to come back and bite us.. i trust the FO in this.

The expansion excuse was a stretch last year...

$22 million in signing bonuses to Gary Walker and Todd Wade bites a lot if you ask me and a few thousand other people.

Grid
03-11-2006, 05:31 PM
So then yall think that we just like paying people millions more than they are worth? I mean.. dont you think that there is some negotiation involved? I seriously doubt we are just bringing in average players and saying "here, have a few million more"... there is a reason why we are overpaying, and the only reason that makes sense is that we are a new team with a bad record.

run-david-run
03-11-2006, 05:35 PM
They just recently switched back to a 43-46 set. When he was drafted they were a 34 team.
When he was drafted they were a 43 team, they won the SuperBowl playing a 4-3, not a 3-4.
Also, the fact that this was done so soon makes me believe that there was no other team to bump up the price.

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 05:45 PM
"Ravens find a replacement: The Baltimore Ravens wasted no time in replacing defensive end Anthony Weaver Saturday, reaching a five-year, $25 million agreement with former Broncos defensive end Trevor Pryce.
Pryce has been one of the most dominating defensive linemen in the league whether he has played at defensive end or defensive tackle. The Broncos cut him in a cap-related move last week that saved the Broncos $8.5 million of cap room.
Included in the deal for Pryce is $10 million of guarantees.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364242

The Dude Abides
03-11-2006, 05:48 PM
When he was drafted they were a 43 team, they won the SuperBowl playing a 4-3, not a 3-4.
Also, the fact that this was done so soon makes me believe that there was no other team to bump up the price.

That's wrong. They were 3-4. Now they are 4-3.

aj.
03-11-2006, 05:48 PM
So what I'm hearing is that we gave more guaranteed money to Weaver than the Ravens gave Pryce?

<Cartmann Voice> g## dammit.......

infantrycak
03-11-2006, 05:52 PM
That's wrong. They were 3-4. Now they are 4-3.

No it's not. Jamie Sharper played with the Ravens on the Super Bowl team and it was as OLB in a 4-3. They then converted to a 3-4 for a few years and have now gone back to a 4 man front.

run-david-run
03-11-2006, 06:04 PM
That's wrong. They were 3-4. Now they are 4-3.
== Defense ==
Burnett, Rob LE
Adams, Sam LT
Siragusa, Tony RT
McCrary, Michael RE
Boulware, Peter LLB
Lewis, Ray MLB
Sharper, Jamie RLB
Starks, Duane LCB
McAlister, Chris RCB
Herring, Kim SS
Woodson, Rod FS

That is the starting lineup of the Ravens D for Superbowl 35. Please notice the 4 defensive linemen and 3 linebackers. They switched to a 3-4 two years ago, then experimented with 34, 43 and 46 this season.

aj.
03-11-2006, 06:06 PM
Not drafting well and having to overpay free agents are functions that are inextricably linked.

TEXANRED
03-11-2006, 06:30 PM
So would anyone like to explain why we would be so hard up for an end who has 14.5 career sacks and dont even make an attempt at Pryce?

I thought this team wanted to win.

Why does Casserly still have a job?

run-david-run
03-11-2006, 06:32 PM
Not drafting well and having to overpay free agents are functions that are inextricably linked.
However, we have drafted resonably well. Other then a couple of 2nd round busts, the players we have selected have worked out pretty well for us, not necesseraly great, but not too bad either. Of course we could have done better if we selected other players instead of the ones we chose (Portis over Gaff, Khalif Barnes over Buchanon trade, etc... but the draft is not an exact science.

FA, on the other hand, is a completly differant monster, one that Casserly has not yet tamed.

Also, to the poster above, Pryce is on the down side of his career, Weaver is in his 5th season. Also, Pryce would come at a considerably higher price, seeing as we have a lot of holes and the number one pick, cap room is not to be wasted.

Vinny
03-11-2006, 06:34 PM
However, we have drafted resonably well. Other then a couple of 2nd round busts, the players we have selected have worked out pretty well for us, not necesseraly great, but not too bad either. Of course we could have done better if we selected other players instead of the ones we chose (Portis over Gaff, Khalif Barnes over Buchanon trade, etc... but the draft is not an exact science.

FA, on the other hand, is a completly differant monster, one that Casserly has not yet tamed.This is off the top of my head but we have had 6 second round picks since we started this franchise and right now only Pitts is a firm starter. If you are going to build a team via the draft you have to do better than that with your second round picks.

HardKnockTexan
03-11-2006, 06:36 PM
This is off the top of my head but we have had 6 second round picks since we started this franchise and right now only Pitts is a firm starter. If you are going to build a team via the draft you have to do better than that with your second round picks.

I thought Pitts was a 3rd round pick...

Vinny
03-11-2006, 06:38 PM
I thought Pitts was a 3rd round pick...Pitts was the 18th pick in the second round and 50th overall pick in the 2002 draft.

Dunta_23
03-11-2006, 06:40 PM
Gaffney was a solid starter
a 2nd round was traded for Babin who was a starter when healthy
another 2nd was traded for Buchanon who started and was then demoted, then injured...
Chester Pitts is now our starting LT...

The picks havent been bad....just the trades...

Vinny
03-11-2006, 06:43 PM
Hollings, Joppru, Pitts, Gaffney, were drafted and we traded out of the second round twice. Joppru has never seen the field, Hollings is gone, and Gaffney wasn't tendered.

Nighthawk
03-11-2006, 06:47 PM
Would somebody please explain why in heaven's name we went after Weaver and didn't make a move on Pryce? It just makes no sense at all, and then to pay Weaver Pryce money to boot.

Somebody on this club has his head up his backside.

Or, maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard an explanation that makes any sense at all. If money talks, and it usually does, we should have gotten Pryce. Maybe he doesn't like Kubiak, or the other way around? Help me!

Looking around, I see some people have Pryce listed as a DT and Weaver as a DE (12th best DE in FA according to Scout.com).

texan279
03-11-2006, 06:50 PM
Would somebody please explain why in heaven's name we went after Weaver and didn't make a move on Pryce? It just makes no sense at all, and then to pay Weaver Pryce money to boot.

Somebody on this club has his head up his backside.

Or, maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard an explanation that makes any sense at all. If money talks, and it usually does, we should have gotten Pryce. Maybe he doesn't like Kubiak, or the other way around? Help me!

Pryce's contract is 5 years $25 million with a $10 million dollar signing bonus, I don't think anyone even knows for sure yet what Weaver's contract is worth yet.

aj.
03-11-2006, 06:50 PM
Someone please present a case that this is a 'good' 4 year draft record considering the Texans draft position each year. Stupid draft day trades are part of the draft as far as I'm concerned. So are good ones but there haven't been many of those. Who did we get with the Henson pick again?

http://www.theredzone.org/draft_history/showteam.asp?Team=Texans

wags
03-11-2006, 06:50 PM
I don't get the whole Portis over Gaff thing. We passed on Portis twice in the second. Shouldn't it be Portis over Pitts?

wags
03-11-2006, 06:55 PM
I don't get the whole Portis over Gaff thing. We passed on Portis twice in the second. Shouldn't it be Portis over Pitts?

What's funny is that Weaver was the pick after Portis.

F-minus67
03-11-2006, 06:55 PM
Why go after Pryce? He is on the wrong side of 30 and his skills have been slipping for like 3 years. Not to mention hes had some back problems. So in short he would be like a bigger Gary Walker. Weaver is younger and entering the prime of his career. He didn't have a lot of sacks but no one on that defense did when thay switched to a 43.

Trap_Star
03-11-2006, 07:00 PM
What kind of a DE is Weaver??? Pass-rusher?? Run-Stopper??Balanced????:confused:

Bongo59
03-11-2006, 07:06 PM
just dropped by to say love the pick up but hate the price.........you guys consistently get crushed in FA............overpaid for RSmith, Wade, and those LBers................CC should be shot.............but dont feel too bad because the Jags just blew a wad of cash on a very avg CB...............andre dyson is a better player than him.................good luck............at least weaver can play and is an anchor............weaver remind me of Bobby Hamilton formerly of the Pats..........solid steady but not spectacular at any one thing.

tulexan
03-11-2006, 07:14 PM
Before saying that we paid too much for him, shouldn't we see how he plays for us first?

The Preacher
03-11-2006, 07:25 PM
Before saying that we paid too much for him, shouldn't we see how he plays for us first?

Or find out exactly what we paid?

Bongo59
03-11-2006, 07:27 PM
he is a very solid DE in the mold of KCarter now not in his prime, like bobby hamilton, like trace Armstrong, like Paul Spicer or Reggie Hayward...........solid but very avg..............I guess the prices in Houston require more cash............you guys paid a ton...........just look at KVB deal and his production compared to weaver...............Reese owns CC every yr.............we have about 15 mil to spend and i bet will get a LB or two pretty cheap....like thorton leber or ayodele.................

Bongo59
03-11-2006, 07:28 PM
Jamison Hensley, of the Baltimore Sun, reports the Houston Texans have reached agreement on an undisclosed contract with free agent DE Anthony Weaver (Ravens). Weaver is expected to receive $13 million in guaranteed money...........

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2006, 07:31 PM
he is a very solid DE in the mold of KCarter now not in his prime, like bobby hamilton, like trace Armstrong, like Paul Spicer or Reggie Hayward...........solid but very avg..............I guess the prices in Houston require more cash............you guys paid a ton...........just look at KVB deal and his production compared to weaver...............Reese owns CC every yr.............we have about 15 mil to spend and i bet will get a LB or two pretty cheap....like thorton leber or ayodele.................

We are starting to hear that the 13 million guarantee is incorrect. Deal could be 5year 13 million total, which makes a lot more sense,

Note: that Richard Smith coached K. Carter last year and he may be considering Weaver a similiar player as Bonog just mentioned.

Bongo59
03-11-2006, 07:34 PM
no ..............I have it confirmed....he got 13 mil in guarranteed money..............that is alot for a guy who is solid but avg.............but you paid RSmith the same way................Texans FO is pathetic..........and McNair has made a mistake keeping Charlie the clown there..............even Bud made changes when it was this obvious.

tulexan
03-11-2006, 07:39 PM
John Clayton didn't mention that it was guaranteed, so there is some debate as to the contract we gave him.

Bubbajwp
03-11-2006, 07:39 PM
no ..............I have it confirmed....he got 13 mil in guarranteed money..............that is alot for a guy who is solid but avg.............but you paid RSmith the same way................Texans FO is pathetic..........and McNair has made a mistake keeping Charlie the clown there..............even Bud made changes when it was this obvious.
How is it confirmed.

Bongo59
03-11-2006, 07:41 PM
i got it straight from the ravens FO..weaver called them to match before he signed out of courtesy to Ozzie..............Ozzie passed. I would have passed out with those numbers.

aj.
03-11-2006, 07:41 PM
We are starting to hear that the 13 million guarantee is incorrect. Deal could be 5year 13 million total, which makes a lot more sense.

Not so according to Lenny P

Contract details of the multi-year deal were not immediately available. But league sources said Weaver, a player clearly targeted by the Texans for an early free agency strike, could sign a deal that averages in the $5 million range and includes an eight-figure signing bonus.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

eight figure signing bonus: 12,345,678 Walker, Wade, Smith, Greenwood revisted....

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2006, 07:42 PM
no ..............I have it confirmed....he got 13 mil in guarranteed money..............that is alot for a guy who is solid but avg.............but you paid RSmith the same way................Texans FO is pathetic..........and McNair has made a mistake keeping Charlie the clown there..............even Bud made changes when it was this obvious.

We sign a couple of those types every year

McKinney, Wade, Weigert, Greenwood, R. Smith...a couple more I am forgetting. Pathetic assuming the sources are correct.

Bongo59
03-11-2006, 07:45 PM
i am pretty accurate on these deals.............over on our site i told folks three days ago about Brees to NO.............and no one is laughing now in Miami.

texan279
03-11-2006, 07:55 PM
he is a very solid DE in the mold of KCarter now not in his prime, like bobby hamilton, like trace Armstrong, like Paul Spicer or Reggie Hayward...........solid but very avg..............I guess the prices in Houston require more cash............you guys paid a ton...........just look at KVB deal and his production compared to weaver...............Reese owns CC every yr.............we have about 15 mil to spend and i bet will get a LB or two pretty cheap....like thorton leber or ayodele.................

According to ESPN as of March 10th, you guys are about $6.2 million under the cap. And why whould guys like Leber leave a winning team and come play "cheap" for you guys?

The Preacher
03-11-2006, 07:56 PM
no ..............I have it confirmed....he got 13 mil in guarranteed money..............that is alot for a guy who is solid but avg.............but you paid RSmith the same way................Texans FO is pathetic..........and McNair has made a mistake keeping Charlie the clown there..............even Bud made changes when it was this obvious.


Why come on here and insult the org. you don't cheer for even if many agree with you when you know nobody will appreciate it? You'll be way more welcome if you can simply talk about the signing without making it personal. We get it you think it's a bad deal.

If Weaver averages double digit sacks for the next five years he will be worth it(and he defends well against the run). Vanden Bosch could easily get hurt again and make the comparable Weaver deal look solid. Yeah it looks questionable for now but wait and see before hurling ridicule.

texan279
03-11-2006, 07:57 PM
he is a very solid DE in the mold of KCarter now not in his prime, like bobby hamilton, like trace Armstrong, like Paul Spicer or Reggie Hayward...........solid but very avg..............I guess the prices in Houston require more cash............you guys paid a ton...........just look at KVB deal and his production compared to weaver...............Reese owns CC every yr.............we have about 15 mil to spend and i bet will get a LB or two pretty cheap....like thorton leber or ayodele.................

And by the way, per www.kffl.com, Leber signed with the Vikings...

Maddict5
03-11-2006, 08:08 PM
hi, im bongo .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................

seriously though we overpaid but we have to.we're the worst team after all. lets save this until next year if weaver sucks(unlikely). hes young and promising (according to espn who had him at #15 in FA). to be honest i would've been more upset if we had gone for pryce instead(30+, injury prone)

aj.
03-11-2006, 08:11 PM
Three pointin' back at ya...................

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 08:15 PM
"Contract details of the multi-year deal were not immediately available. But league sources said Weaver, a player clearly targeted by the Texans for an early free agency strike, could sign a deal that averages in the $5 million range and includes an eight-figure signing bonus. "
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565
******************************************
So Len P. is reporting Bonus money of =>10 M.

TexanFan881
03-11-2006, 08:18 PM
How does signing bonus count against the cap?

Maddict5
03-11-2006, 08:19 PM
if its a 5 year contract and 10m bonus- 2m v the cap this year i think plus salary

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 08:20 PM
How does signing bonus count against the cap?
Amortized pro rata (means straight-line, evenly, etc.) over the term (years) of the contract.

wags
03-11-2006, 08:23 PM
Amortized pro rata (means straight-line, evenly, etc.) over the term (years) of the contract.

In other words, about 2 million jr bacon cheeseburgers a year.

Blake
03-11-2006, 08:28 PM
Would somebody please explain why in heaven's name we went after Weaver and didn't make a move on Pryce? It just makes no sense at all, and then to pay Weaver Pryce money to boot.

Somebody on this club has his head up his backside.

Or, maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard an explanation that makes any sense at all. If money talks, and it usually does, we should have gotten Pryce. Maybe he doesn't like Kubiak, or the other way around? Help me!

Looking around, I see some people have Pryce listed as a DT and Weaver as a DE (12th best DE in FA according to Scout.com).

I dont think people think about anything other than the players madden rating. What about Pryce's attitude? Weaver's work ethic? Pryce's lack of leadership? Weaver's dedication? Their thoughts on Houston, Kubiak, and the organization.

There is more to getting a player, than numbers, and salary.

Blake
03-11-2006, 08:30 PM
In other words, about 2 million jr bacon cheeseburgers a year.

Haha! Nice one. I like those commericals.

Maddict5
03-11-2006, 08:37 PM
I dont think people think about anything other than the players madden rating. What about Pryce's attitude? Weaver's work ethic? Pryce's lack of leadership? Weaver's dedication? Their thoughts on Houston, Kubiak, and the organization.

There is more to getting a player, than numbers, and salary.

ha, nice1.
also price is alot older and has been injured alot. weaver hurt his toe last season. id prefer to have weaver than pryce

The Preacher
03-11-2006, 08:40 PM
if its a 5 year contract and 10m bonus- 2m v the cap this year i think plus salary

It wouldn't really be that huge a cap hit. 3 mil for a couple of years increasing maybe 250k per year.

"It looks like Weaver will be a definite asset to the Houston defense. He has the reputation of being able to pick apart offensive linemen to get access to the backfield. While he was attending Notre Dame, it was reported by Aaron Wilson of Scout.com that he was not allowed to practice against the Fighting Irish offense because of his ferocity."

This Scout quote is from the folks who have him the 12th rated DE in FA. The thing is all the others are much older or are already signed or franchised except Carlos Hall and Darren Howard. Howard would be really steep and Hall I think is misplaced. To be honest this is almost the best we could do at finding a guy to play strongside DE and looking at the future also. I'm probably overoptimistic but this looks pretty good to me.

nunusguy
03-11-2006, 08:48 PM
I dunno....Pub on the Official Texans website about the Cook signing, but nothing re Weaver ?

Maddict5
03-11-2006, 08:56 PM
"POSATIVE", is the key word for the rest of the off season.:cool:

is that a new type of steroid or something?

travfrancis
03-11-2006, 08:58 PM
Hulk75, i get the feeling that since carr was re-signed (only thing you really care about) everything else is bliss.

we could have signed a monkey to play FS and you would probably say it was a good move.

12Gage
03-11-2006, 09:13 PM
I wanted us to draft Weaver when he entered a few years back. We took Chester Pitts at pick #50, then Denver took Clinton Portis and Baltimore took Weaver.
I like the signing, just hope we didn't over pay.

edo783
03-11-2006, 09:27 PM
If the money is correct, I don't see how this could be a bad pick. The guy is young, well thought of and was the starting LDE for one of the best defenses in the NFL. That doesn't sound like a bad pick up. Is he a pro bowler....Nope. Is he a solid hard working type....Yup. I like the pick. For some folks, if it isn't a big name with lots of hype, then the guy isn't any good.

TexanBacker93
03-11-2006, 09:30 PM
Would somebody please explain why in heaven's name we went after Weaver and didn't make a move on Pryce? It just makes no sense at all, and then to pay Weaver Pryce money to boot.

Somebody on this club has his head up his backside.

Or, maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard an explanation that makes any sense at all. If money talks, and it usually does, we should have gotten Pryce. Maybe he doesn't like Kubiak, or the other way around? Help me!

Looking around, I see some people have Pryce listed as a DT and Weaver as a DE (12th best DE in FA according to Scout.com).

Actually, Scouts has Weaver as the #6 and Pryce as the #5. Considering the #4 resigned with his team and the #3 is a weakside DE the only better possibilities available would have been Howard or Abraham. At this point in their careers Weaver over the next 5 years is better than Pryce for 5 years. Pryce won't make it 5 years without missing time with injuries. Weaver missed one game in the 1st 3 years.

aj.
03-11-2006, 09:34 PM
If the money is correct, I don't see how this could be a bad pick. .

So a deal that averages in the $5 million range (per year) and includes an eight-figure signing bonus ($10 million +) is good?

TexanBacker93
03-11-2006, 09:43 PM
Considering the team didn't have a strongside DE and there were only 5 worth picking up in FA: Abraham, Weaver, Howard, Kampman, Pryce.

I would have liked to see Kampman or looked at Howard, but I don't know what his plans were. Unless Abraham was included in a trade for the #1, he wasn't coming here.

I like Weaver over Pryce. Did he probably cost more than the team might have wanted to spend. Probably. The problem they face is they need someone to fill that position and that puts them in a tough spot. Let's say they offer less and he says he wants to visit another team. That team is a little better and they offer him the same deal. He signs there and now the Texans are really down to Howard who may not even have interest in Houston. When you have some players at a position already you might be able to play a waiting game and hopefully improve. When you have nothing in the cupboard you have to get to the store quickly before the bread is gone.

This signing shouldn't be considered on par with the Greenwood or Wade signings. Those were players that weren't necessarily better than what the team already had. Weaver improves the D-Line. With Smith, TJ, and either Peek or Babin (or maybe even Mario if they drop down), this is the makings of a very good front 4 that can maybe do something more than fall down and get hurt.

The Dude Abides
03-11-2006, 10:53 PM
Losing the talented Weaver, who was ESPN.com's No. 15 player among the top unrestricted veterans, is a setback for the Ravens, who had hoped to re-sign him.

Sounds like he's not too bad if they have him ranked 15 overall.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

of course that might just be in DE category.

Grid
03-11-2006, 11:00 PM
No they had him ranked #15 overall.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2360759&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2


the Raven fans are sick that we got Weaver.. they felt he was one of their best players on Defense.

texan279
03-11-2006, 11:01 PM
Sounds like he's not too bad if they have him ranked 15 overall.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

of course that might just be in DE category.

I was over at a Raven's MB and from what I read they hate to lose him, he is one of the hardest working guys on the team, he started stepping his game up last season and then got injured, but it was everyone's opinion that 13 million guaranteed is a little much.

LINK (http://forums.extremeravens.com/index.php?showtopic=15749)

tulexan
03-11-2006, 11:03 PM
I like it. I think he will be a solid addition to our revamped defense.

edo783
03-11-2006, 11:05 PM
So a deal that averages in the $5 million range (per year) and includes an eight-figure signing bonus ($10 million +) is good?

Well, that depends on what the going rate is for a YOUNG starting LDE from one of the top NFL defenses is. I think that is pretty close to what the market is for them. There might be some "It's a crap team" premium built in, but I don't think its much.

Here is a bit more from the ESPN artical:

Weaver, 25, is considered an emerging defender who seems ready to elevate his game. He is better against the run than the pass but has improved his pass-rush skills. He played in just 10 games, with eight starts, in 2005 because of back and toe injuries. But Weaver, who has missed just one game in his first three NFL seasons, was healthy by the end of the season, and his health is not a concern to Houston officials. Weaver finished with 46 tackles and two sacks in 2005.

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 11:06 PM
I was wondering just now if signing Weaver was meant as our strongside DE (meaning we likely wouldn't go after Mario Williams in the draft and would 99% guarantee we're getting Bush) or if was signed to come in and gain a little weight and be a DT for us (presumably we'd be cutting Payne this offseason, leaving Weaver and Robaire as our starting DTs and Travis Johnson as a backup). I doubt they'd have Weaver at strongside DE and still draft Mario to be our weakside DE since they just signed Antwan Peek to the high RFA tender ($1.55M for 2006), so either Weaver is meant to be a younger DT and replace Payne or he's meant to be our LDE and we're getting Bush at #1.

So a deal that averages in the $5 million range (per year) and includes an eight-figure signing bonus ($10 million +) is good?

$5 million a year with $13 million signing bonus for a 5-year contract seems very high for me, but HoustonProFootball changed their article and it now says:"While terms are not yet known, the paper reported that Weaver expected to receive $13 million." so that sounds like he is getting a total of $13 million, which sounds a lot more reasonable and makes me wonder if he is supposed to be a DT rather than a DE (it had said earlier today that he was expected $13 million in guaranteed money, but now just says he is expected to be paid that).

Texas
03-11-2006, 11:07 PM
Weaver is better then anyone we have. However he is injury prone but with a full offseason to heal that may be fixed.

tulexan
03-11-2006, 11:10 PM
I think he is going to be a DE. Isn't the scouting report on him that he would really flourish in th 4-3 defensive scheme? We have more than enough DTs, I can't imagine us adding another when we have many capable DTs on the roster.

texan279
03-11-2006, 11:11 PM
Weaver is better then anyone we have. However he is injury prone but with a full offseason to heal that may be fixed.

He has only missed 6 games in 4 seasons...

Blake
03-11-2006, 11:14 PM
He has only missed 6 games in 4 seasons...

But you know how it is. People dont do research, they just hear that he was injured last year, and run with it...

Grid
03-11-2006, 11:15 PM
He will be playing DE.

I dont think that that means Mario is completely off our radar though.

Mario, Johnson, Smith, and Weaver could easily be our line.. with Babin and Peek playing situational pass rusher slash OLB

I have a feeling that we are gonna see alot of 3-4 mixed in with our 4-3 next season.

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 11:15 PM
I think he is going to be a DE. Isn't the scouting report on him that he would really flourish in th 4-3 defensive scheme? We have more than enough DTs, I can't imagine us adding another when we have many capable DTs on the roster.

I wasn't sure on that, I kind of doubt it but at the same time Seth Payne is getting old and maybe they would be looking to replace him and maybe they don't like his fit in a 4-3 defense, plus if Weaver only got $13 million total money for 5 years, that's not a whole lot for a "good" DE, that is more of a DT's type money. The scouting report did point out he's a much better runstopper than passrusher. I guess we'll have to wait until his salary thing is cleared up and whether it was a $13 million bonus or that $13 million was his total, and then see where they intend to play him. Signing him and drafting Mario to be our RDE pass rusher would be interesting, but with them keeping Peek and protecting him with the high RFA tender I think they intend to give Peek significant playing time.

texan279
03-11-2006, 11:17 PM
He will be playing DE.

I dont think that that means Mario is completely off our radar though.

Mario, Johnson, Smith, and Weaver could easily be our line.. with Babin and Peek playing situational pass rusher slash OLB

I have a feeling that we are gonna see alot of 3-4 mixed in with our 4-3 next season.

I just can't see us taking Mario with the 1st pick after what we gave up to draft Babin and only use Babin as a situational player although I wouldn't be against taking Mario...

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 11:22 PM
I just can't see us taking Mario with the 1st pick after what we gave up to draft Babin and only use Babin as a situational player although I wouldn't be against taking Mario...

With or without Mario, I expect Peek to see more playing time at DE than Babin, every time I've heard the defensive coaches talk about our DLine, they've mentioned how much they like Peek's energy and aggressiveness and haven't said much of anything about Babin, so I expect they plan on having Peek on the field more than Babin. That said, I'm not sure what having Weaver as a DE will do to our chances of taking Mario, I think it drastically decreases our chances of taking him and pretty much guarantees we're taking Bush, but if Weaver ends up being a DT and replacing Seth Payne there then I think we could definitely go for Mario.

BTW http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565 is the ESPN article about Weaver being signed (identical to HPF's one before they changed that bit about Weaver's contract). Does anyone else find it amusing that ESPN called him Justin Babin and that after playing in the league 3 years he still is virtually an unknown around the league?

texan279
03-11-2006, 11:28 PM
With or without Mario, I expect Peek to see more playing time at DE than Babin, every time I've heard the defensive coaches talk about our DLine, they've mentioned how much they like Peek's energy and aggressiveness and haven't said much of anything about Babin, so I expect they plan on having Peek on the field more than Babin. That said, I'm not sure what having Weaver as a DE will do to our chances of taking Mario, I think it drastically decreases our chances of taking him and pretty much guarantees we're taking Bush, but if Weaver ends up being a DT and replacing Seth Payne there then I think we could definitely go for Mario.

I see what you're saying but IMO I would rather have Babin starting at DE. He was a beast as a DE in college and from what I saw from him last season playing in the 3 point stance he impressed me. I think he could be the more all around DE than Peek. I see Peek as more of a pass rusher. Just my :twocents: though...

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 11:30 PM
I see what you're saying but IMO I would rather have Babin starting at DE. He was a beast as a DE in college and from what I saw from him last season playing in the 3 point stance he impressed me. I think he could be the more all around DE than Peek. I see Peek as more of a pass rusher. Just my :twocents: though...

I agree with you on the size thing, although a RDE is supposed to just be a pass rusher, and I'd still prefer Peek's aggressiveness, high energy and motor to Babin's 15 extra lbs. (both can gain some weight too, so Peek could catch up on that).

texan279
03-11-2006, 11:30 PM
Does anyone else find it amusing that ESPN called him Justin Babin and that after playing in the league 3 years he still is virtually an unknown around the league?

Babin has only played 2 seasons...:D

tulexan
03-11-2006, 11:31 PM
I noticed the Justin Babin reference too.

Grid
03-11-2006, 11:32 PM
I see Babin as the LAST coaching staff's "guy".. if he doesnt wow the new staff..I see him playing a limited role and eventually being let go. Thats why I still see Mario as a possibility.

Yah we spent a high draft pick on Babin, but it wouldnt be the first time that a high draft pick rode the pine under a new staff.

texan279
03-11-2006, 11:33 PM
I agree with you on the size thing, although a RDE is supposed to just be a pass rusher, and I'd still prefer Peek's aggressiveness, high energy and motor to Babin's 15 extra lbs. (both can gain some weight too, so Peek could catch up on that).

I agree with you about Peek's motor and aggressiveness, I just wonder if he can start keeping his cool a little better and not get the yellow hanky thrown because of boneheaded mistakes.

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 11:34 PM
Babin has only played 2 seasons...:D

My bad, it feels like we've been waiting longer than that for him to produce.

I see Babin as the LAST coaching staff's "guy".. if he doesnt wow the new staff..I see him playing a limited role and eventually being let go. Thats why I still see Mario as a possibility.

Yah we spent a high draft pick on Babin, but it wouldnt be the first time that a high draft pick rode the pine under a new staff.

Agreed, even though we used a lot of draft picks to get him, that was with our old regime and if our new staff doesn't like him I think he could be gone as soon as it is economically reasonable to do so, maybe we could trade him to another 3-4 team for a 6th-7th round pick and see what they can get from him on the field.

I agree with you about Peek's motor and aggressiveness, I just wonder if he can start keeping his cool a little better and not get the yellow hanky thrown because of boneheaded mistakes.

I think he can, and I think he'll be able to play better than he has been if he's a DE and all we ask him to do is go hit the QB rather than sitting back in our custom 3-4 cover 2 defense and having to cover people and try to run whatever other unnecessarily complicated things FAngio had people doing.

Kaiser Toro
03-11-2006, 11:42 PM
I see what you're saying but IMO I would rather have Babin starting at DE. He was a beast as a DE in college and from what I saw from him last season playing in the 3 point stance he impressed me. I think he could be the more all around DE than Peek. I see Peek as more of a pass rusher. Just my :twocents: though...

Agreed.

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 11:44 PM
Another interesting thing on Weaver and Rosenfels, the Texans website has an article on them signing Jameel Cook and they have added him to their roster on there, but they have no mention of Weaver or Rosenfels. Also, NFL.com does not have any mention of these moves on their "latest minute-to-minute free-agent move" page and ESPN's actual transaction page has nothing on either of these. I wonder why these are apparently being kept so quiet or if an official deal has not actually been made with either of them yet.

texman8
03-11-2006, 11:44 PM
Pryce has better production history than Weaver. However, Weaver is younger and better than any DE we have on roster. Compare contracts:
Weaver- 5 yrs. - 13 mil
Pryce - 5 yrs. - 25 mil
If those numbers are correct, Weaver's contract average is not unbearable.

I don't think this preclude Texans from selecting Mario Williams.

stevo3883
03-12-2006, 12:02 AM
lol... its all i can do now is laugh. weaver averages what? like 30 tackles and 2 sacks per season? he should fit right in, Robaire & payne can tell him how to handle being an overpaid underperforming lineman for the texans.



Are we ever going to get a premier player? not "a big name" but a player that actually has potential to make a pro-bowl or something.

Wild.Bill
03-12-2006, 12:11 AM
Weaver is an emerging young defensive end. No, he is not Dwight Freeny, but he is solid against the run, which we desperately need, and decent at pass rushing. He's definately an upgrade and my gut tells me that we will see Babin really step it up this year and be very effective in the 4-3. I think Peek is the odd man out here. I think he'll only be a situational pass rusher ala Jason Taylor.

Like Casserly said, they will address the needs for this team through free agency, not the draft. They will pick the best player available since the draft is such a crap shoot. Reggie Bush will be our first pick because he is by far the highest rated player on the board.

Grid
03-12-2006, 12:20 AM
lol... its all i can do now is laugh. weaver averages what? like 30 tackles and 2 sacks per season? he should fit right in, Robaire & payne can tell him how to handle being an overpaid underperforming lineman for the texans.



Are we ever going to get a premier player? not "a big name" but a player that actually has potential to make a pro-bowl or something.


whine whine whine whine whine.

yes he averages around 30 tackles per season. incidentally..so dont Dwight Freeney. He averages about 3.5-4 sacks per season as well.. but he is progressing and the one thing that everyone seems to be saying about him is "ready to move to the next level".

So he is a young player on the verge..and fits our needs.

cry me a river.

run-david-run
03-12-2006, 12:26 AM
I just can't see us taking Mario with the 1st pick after what we gave up to draft Babin and only use Babin as a situational player although I wouldn't be against taking Mario...
That was the old regime. I doubt Kubiak would bat an eye at putting Babin on the bench and I doubt CC has much say in this draft.

Vinny
03-12-2006, 12:28 AM
whine whine whine whine whine.

yes he averages around 30 tackles per season. incidentally..so dont Dwight Freeney. He averages about 3.5-4 sacks per season as well.. but he is progressing and the one thing that everyone seems to be saying about him is "ready to move to the next level".

So he is a young player on the verge..and fits our needs.

cry me a river.
I think we pay for talent on spec way too much. I don't think anyone would question this if he had one year with double digit sacks. There is no speculation if he has a track record. To think he puts up more sacks on a less talented team is not sane. Well, it's probably sane - but his sack numbers will not surge because he is in a better defense.

Grid
03-12-2006, 12:44 AM
I dont think he is gonna turn into Dwight Freeney for us.. I just dont think we should be calling im "overpaid and underperforming" before he has even touched a steel blue jersey.

Vinny
03-12-2006, 12:47 AM
I dont think he is gonna turn into Dwight Freeney for us.. I just dont think we should be calling im "overpaid and underperforming" before he has even touched a steel blue jersey.
You are probably right but Casserly has established a pattern. From Carr to Wade to Kris Brown most of our guys have been paid on spec and it hasn't been pretty so far as the larger contracts and the smaller production yeilds pile up...so that is where the cynicism is in the deal. People are just worried.

samomin
03-12-2006, 12:48 AM
Pryce has better production history than Weaver. However, Weaver is younger and better than any DE we have on roster. Compare contracts:
Weaver- 5 yrs. - 13 mil
Pryce - 5 yrs. - 25 mil
If those numbers are correct, Weaver's contract average is not unbearable.

I don't think this preclude Texans from selecting Mario Williams.

Weaver got more money han Pryce. Look at the Chron article:

Weaver, 25, will start at left end in coach Gary Kubiak's 4-3 system. Jason Babin will move to right end to compete with Antwan Peek.

"I'm just thrilled to be part of an up-and-coming organization," said Weaver, who received a $12 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $26.5 million deal. "They've got a new coaching staff that's a breath of fresh air. I'm excited to help them start winning.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3717783.html

Dang! This guy better live upto expectations now. WOW! Good thing he is young and can be productive for the length of the contract.

stevo3883
03-12-2006, 12:51 AM
You are probably right but Casserly has established a pattern. From Carr to Wade to Kris Brown most of our guys have been paid on spec and it hasn't been pretty so far as the larger contracts and the smaller production yeilds pile up...so that is where the cynicism is in the deal. People are just worried.


the thing is Weaver is the EXACT mold of guys like greenwood, Wade, & Robaire. Guys that are middle of the pack, with not much upside. had maybe 1 or two alright years and we sign them to a contract of a high first round draft pick.

IMO this guy isnt athletic enought to provide much of a pass rush for us. we neeeeeeeeeeeed pass rush, not another run stuffer.

stevo3883
03-12-2006, 12:53 AM
"$12 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $26.5 million deal."

oh my god... He is getting nearly $1million guranteed for each sack in his career, over 4 seasons! Nearly $1million for every 6 tackles.

dirty steve
03-12-2006, 12:55 AM
"$12 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $26.5 million deal."

oh my god... He is getting nearly $1million guranteed for each sack in his career, over 4 seasons! Nearly $1million for every 6 tackles.

what do you want us to do? overpay for trevor pryce? maybe kubes knows a couple of things about pryce by being a DENVER assistant coach for all those years.

texan279
03-12-2006, 12:56 AM
"I'm just thrilled to be part of an up-and-coming organization," said Weaver, who received a $12 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $26.5 million deal.

My stomach turned a bit after reading this...:wacko:

dirty steve
03-12-2006, 12:58 AM
give him a chance! you guys act like this is capers signing him or something. and you can't possibly know how much casserly had to do with this signing, unless your mailing address is 1 Reliant Park.

Vinny
03-12-2006, 12:59 AM
what do you want us to do? overpay for trevor pryce? maybe kubes knows a couple of things about pryce by being a DENVER assistant coach for all those years.Pryce is a 4 time Pro Bowler. He has at least proven he can play. The Ravens just signed him to replace Weaver. Whats so bad about getting a guy who can play a couple of years and release him? It sure beats a team of potential that never is realized. Perhaps Weaver is the right choice. I donno...but this smells like Casserly all over again.

texan279
03-12-2006, 01:01 AM
give him a chance! you guys act like this is capers signing him or something. and you can't possibly know how much casserly had to do with this signing, unless your mailing address is 1 Reliant Park.

I am not downing the guy or saying he'll be a bust here, it's just with the salary cap increase, the mad scramble during the first day of free agency, and us being such a lousy team, I am tired of us having to overpay to get players to come here.

tulexan
03-12-2006, 01:03 AM
I thought Casserly's role was to get the players that the coaching staff wants. So doesn't that mean that the coaching staff wanted Weaver?

stevo3883
03-12-2006, 01:03 AM
Im just in awe of this...

Yeah I have no choice now but to give him a shot.. But dear god, he isn't worth half what we're paying him!

At least we didn't trade away our 2nd and 3rd for him, but we might as well have for this much money.

texan279
03-12-2006, 01:07 AM
I thought Casserly's role was to get the players that the coaching staff wants. So doesn't that mean that the coaching staff wanted Weaver?

Well if we keep up this pace, we'll be in cap hell before we make it to the playoffs...

The Dude Abides
03-12-2006, 01:07 AM
"I'm just thrilled to be part of an up-and-coming organization," said Weaver, who received a $12 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $26.5 million deal. "They've got a new coaching staff that's a breath of fresh air. I'm excited to help them start winning.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3717783.html

MorKnolle
03-12-2006, 01:10 AM
I thought Casserly's role was to get the players that the coaching staff wants. So doesn't that mean that the coaching staff wanted Weaver?

He is in charge of doing that, and I think the coaches wanted these guys, although I'm not real sure why on Rosenfels. I'm not sure how much Casserly is involved in the salary negotiations or if it's more of that Ferens guy that the article mentioned, but either way they have a four year history of badly overpaying free agents and it looks like they're continuing that trend. Weaver should be a good acquisition, but $5.2 million a year? That sounds like a lot more than he would have gotten anywhere else, and this continues the trend of us seeming desperate to find a couple guys a year and overpaying to do so, and I think agents and players all around the league now realize they can con our salary negotiators into giving them large deals.

dirty steve
03-12-2006, 01:14 AM
Im just in awe of this...

Yeah I have no choice now but to give him a shot.. But dear god, he isn't worth half what we're paying him!

At least we didn't trade away our 2nd and 3rd for him, but we might as well have for this much money.

I guess you currently hold a front office position with a current NFL franchise, have an extensive knowledge of the salary cap, and are entrusted to make those type of decisions.

texman8
03-12-2006, 01:21 AM
Wow!!! That is a lot of money. I'm hoping for a hard line- drive double;not expecting a home run.

stevo3883
03-12-2006, 01:21 AM
I guess you currently hold a front office position with a current NFL franchise, have an extensive knowledge of the salary cap, and are entrusted to make those type of decisions.


give me a break.

My $1000 a year on season tickets allows me to make these kinds of decisions.

wags
03-12-2006, 01:39 AM
said Weaver, who received a $12 million signing bonus as part of his five-year, $26.5 million deal.

Wow. I mean wow. :dontknowa

dirty steve
03-12-2006, 01:41 AM
give me a break.

My $1000 a year on season tickets allows me to make these kinds of decisions.

thaz cool man. i just wish people would give kubes and the rest of the staff a little time to sort this mess out.

texan279
03-12-2006, 01:48 AM
thaz cool man. i just wish people would give kubes and the rest of the staff a little time to sort this mess out.

I don't think it's as much as a problem with Kubes as it is with Casserly and our front office shelling out huge bucks again for just "good" players. I mean if these are guys that our coaching staff wants that is fine, but jeez $13 million guaranteed?

texan279
03-12-2006, 01:53 AM
WOW this guy looks like a Babin wanna-b. Have you people seen the stats on this guy! What a joke! Charley C Strikes again. Another big off-season underway. Sit down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the laughs! Oh and if VY or Reggie Bush are not playing for this team come next august, we can expect great things from this team, like the opportunity to pass up on Adrian Peterson next year. GO TEXANS #! Finding jewels in everyone’s third string squads!

You can't go on stats alone, the guy was a starting defensive linemen on one of the best defenses in the NFL for the last four seasons.

MorKnolle
03-12-2006, 01:55 AM
I don't think it's as much as a problem with Kubes as it is with Casserly and our front office shelling out huge bucks again for just "good" players. I mean if these are guys that our coaching staff wants that is fine, but jeez $13 million guaranteed?

I trust Kubiak to get guys that he and his staff feel will help the team, but whoever is negotiating these contracts should get canned because they are obviously overpaying for Weaver and have had a history of badly overpaying free agents and resigning of our guys (Wade, Walker, Payne, Greenwood, Wong, etc.) At some point in time these drastic overspendings are going to hurt this team when they don't have the cap room to do much, and they're generally still only bringing in 2nd-tier talent but paying top-tier prices for them (I don't have a problem with them targeting guys like Weaver and Flanagan over Abraham and Bentley, but I do have a problem when they pay them almost as much as the top guys get, see Greenwood getting a contract on par with Kendrell Bell, Jaime Sharper, etc. last year and Todd Wade being the 2nd highest paid RT in the game having never made a Pro Bowl).

tulexan
03-12-2006, 01:56 AM
WOW this guy looks like a Babin wanna-b. Have you people seen the stats on this guy! What a joke! Charley C Strikes again. Another big off-season underway. Sit down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the laughs! Oh and if VY or Reggie Bush are not playing for this team come next august, we can expect great things from this team, like the opportunity to pass up on Adrian Peterson next year. GO TEXANS #! Finding jewels in everyone’s third string squads!

you sound like a very happy person

texman8
03-12-2006, 01:57 AM
WOW this guy looks like a Babin wanna-b. Have you people seen the stats on this guy! What a joke! Charley C Strikes again. Another big off-season underway. Sit down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the laughs! Oh and if VY or Reggie Bush are not playing for this team come next august, we can expect great things from this team, like the opportunity to pass up on Adrian Peterson next year. GO TEXANS #! Finding jewels in everyone’s third string squads!


Why Adrian Peterson? when you already have Reggie Bush.. We could go for OL or WR next year.

texan279
03-12-2006, 01:59 AM
I trust Kubiak to get guys that he and his staff feel will help the team, but whoever is negotiating these contracts should get canned because they are obviously overpaying for Weaver and have had a history of badly overpaying free agents and resigning of our guys (Wade, Walker, Payne, Greenwood, Wong, etc.) At some point in time these drastic overspendings are going to hurt this team when they don't have the cap room to do much, and they're generally still only bringing in 2nd-tier talent but paying top-tier prices for them (I don't have a problem with them targeting guys like Weaver and Flanagan over Abraham and Bentley, but I do have a problem when they pay them almost as much as the top guys get, see Greenwood getting a contract on par with Kendrell Bell, Jaime Sharper, etc. last year and Todd Wade being the 2nd highest paid RT in the game having never made a Pro Bowl).

You're right and we'll probably end up like the Jags did capwise awhile after they came into the league. They fixed their cap by unloading guys like Walker, Payne, and Boselli on us though.

Errant Hothy
03-12-2006, 02:01 AM
I trust Kubiak to get guys that he and his staff feel will help the team, but whoever is negotiating these contracts should get canned because they are obviously overpaying for Weaver and have had a history of badly overpaying free agents and resigning of our guys (Wade, Walker, Payne, Greenwood, Wong, etc.) At some point in time these drastic overspendings are going to hurt this team when they don't have the cap room to do much, and they're generally still only bringing in 2nd-tier talent but paying top-tier prices for them (I don't have a problem with them targeting guys like Weaver and Flanagan over Abraham and Bentley, but I do have a problem when they pay them almost as much as the top guys get, see Greenwood getting a contract on par with Kendrell Bell, Jaime Sharper, etc. last year and Todd Wade being the 2nd highest paid RT in the game having never made a Pro Bowl).

I completly agree. I thought after nearly losig his job Casserly might try and do a better job in FA, espically with value issues. I was totaly onboard with the Weaver signing, but we overpiad AGAIN!

And with Givens now gone, and probaly good chuvk of our cap space, we probaly won't get any other good/big name players. Dosn't mean there arn't any players to be had I just doubt we'll make a push for the Arrington/Witherspoon types. Maybe the Fujita types, ie more lower teir types.

This is a big buzzkill, espically after the high of the Kubiak hire.

texman8
03-12-2006, 02:01 AM
By the way, Weaver is better than Babin. If we can't get Mario; maybe Manny Lawson ,later.

stevo3883
03-12-2006, 02:08 AM
By the way, Weaver is better than Babin. If we can't get Mario; maybe Manny Lawson ,later.


better in what sense? Babin actually has potential as a pass-rusher.

texan279
03-12-2006, 02:20 AM
Who have you been watching play the last two seasons? Babin is terrible, and when he lines up on the line he is going to get destroyed! He does not have the Mathis speed or athleticisim. And this new guy is not even in Babins ball park! Go TEXANS Fee-Agency at it best!

Did you watch Babin play at all the last couple of games last season or are you familiar with what he did in college?

texan279
03-12-2006, 02:27 AM
San Fran, Go Babin, you all-pro. What a joke! Oh and he was in one of the weakest college divisions in the NCAA. He needs about 25 more lbs of muscle, and a better understanding of how to separate from offensive linemen

The guy played a 4-3 DE in college and comes to play OLB in our poorly run 3-4, do you expect him to put up pro bowl type numbers immediately? And it doesn't matter if it's San Francisco or Pittsburgh, he got the job done...

texanskan
03-12-2006, 03:31 AM
This guy is a good signing, you just have to overpay for free agents.

Don't blame CC for this contract blame him for the past four drafts and us now being forced into overpaying for players.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 06:14 AM
Well I am going to default and trust the judgement of the Texans, but I must say this move kinda pisses me off. We overpay for a mid-level talent guy when we dont have to. One thing we need is a pass rush and we have the ability to get a lights out type of guy in the draft and we focus on getting a DE/DT tweener that has been average at best. Is Gaffney resigned? Is Jeb Putzier here? What about Teyo Johnson or something resembling a MLB? Yet we spend money on this cat. Not to knock Weaver, because when healthy he is strong against the run, but now it looks like we are set on a particular guy. DAMN Ferens this guy is the true reason we on the message board are constantly bitching about contracts and overpaying.

nunusguy
03-12-2006, 06:37 AM
Well I am going to default and trust the judgement of the Texans, but I must say this move kinda pisses me off. We overpay for a mid-level talent guy when we dont have to. One thing we need is a pass rush and we have the ability to get a lights out type of guy in the draft and we focus on getting a DE/DT tweener that has been average at best.
What we got is an established NFL starter at a key position where we didn't have a single body on the existing roster who could even line up there.
As far as paying too much, its a condition us and other bottom feeding teams
in the NFL have to suffer until they we get better. In the meantime, we just
have to bite the bullet and live with it.
Most teams primary pass rusher plays the weak side, so we may still use a
2nd or 3rd round pick (or lower) on somebody like Darryl Tapp, a smaller DE
who is a steller pass rusher off the edge, to compete with Peek, Babin, etc.
for the weakside DE.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 06:40 AM
Nun is Weaver in the same stratosphere of talent as Mario Williams? Ok we have the chance to get the best edge rusher in the draft and we decide to give up cash for a guy that is a small DT and plays that way. He is good against the run, but plays DT against the pass or did you not catch a Baltimore game. Dont you think we have enough DTs?

beerlover
03-12-2006, 06:45 AM
Nun is Weaver in the same stratosphere of talent as Mario Williams? Ok we have the chance to get the best edge rusher in the draft and we decide to give up cash for a guy that is a small DT and plays that way. He is good against the run, but plays DT against the pass or did you not catch a Baltimore game. Dont you think we have enough DTs?

I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember it being public knowledge that the Texans where going to release Gary Walker after June 1st. In this case it makes perfect sense :rofl:

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 06:55 AM
Yeah GW is gone but what does that matter. We have Robaire, TJ, and Payne all of which are making good money. On top of that we have Alfred Malone, Deloach, and Ioane who have not been released yet. Malone showed up in his playing time proving that he has a motor and will work his *** off. So why get this guy. My thing is we could have just put TJ or Robaire at the SDE if we wanted a guy good against the run and with minimal burst off the edge.

nunusguy
03-12-2006, 06:57 AM
Nun is Weaver in the same stratosphere of talent as Mario Williams? Ok we have the chance to get the best edge rusher in the draft and we decide to give up cash for a guy that is a small DT and plays that way. He is good against the run, but plays DT against the pass or did you not catch a Baltimore game. Dont you think we have enough DTs?
Of course he's not at the same level as Mario is expected to be, but he won't
cost us our top pick either. My expectation of him is that he'll be adequate, and if thats exceeded then its a bonus.
But this guy can play DE in both the 4-3 & 3-4 (as Mario could), and I don't think we'll completeely abandon the 3-4, so his versatility will be a plus.
But Mario is reputed to be the best DE in this Draft, but not neccesarily the
best pass rushing DE. We may yet draft a smaller, but very effective pass
rushing DE to play weakside.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 07:02 AM
Mario can play any position in the front seven. He has played everything even lined up at SS when he first got to NCST. Now he cannot play in the secondary, but as a 34 OLB or DE he could be a terror. He is worth the first overall pick and he is better than what we could get a later rounds. I just refuse to believe that when you look at Weaver you see a guy that is going to improve our pass rush.

nunusguy
03-12-2006, 07:25 AM
He is worth the first overall pick and he is better than what we could get a later rounds. I just refuse to believe that when you look at Weaver you see a guy that is going to improve our pass rush.
Perhaps you're right Coach, but apparently the Texans don't share you opinion
and appear to think they have bigger fish to fry with that #1 pick.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 07:43 AM
nun this we do agree on. I think they do have a bigger fish to fry with the pick. Unfortunately I am just not sold on the idea that it will be the upgrade that we desperately need. I think RB is definately an upgrade over DD, but Kubes has had a fast multi-faceted back in Clinton Portis so I know he can do big time things with him. The question I ask is what is more important 1500 total yards and 10TDs or 12-15 sacks and 4FF plus who knows how many pressures. That is my question I think one sack can change the game more than a 100 yd game, but I am a defense guy so I could just be wrong.

aj.
03-12-2006, 08:02 AM
I haven't read through the last few pages of this thread so I don't know if this has been posted already. If it has, please ignore or delete.

5 years - $26.5 million with a $12 million signing bonus. (per the Chronic)

That's Walker, Wade, and Smith money right there (actually more guaranteed)

Johnny Utah
03-12-2006, 08:05 AM
The only way the Texans will be able to bring in a free agent this year is if they 1) overpay or 2) get a hometown player who wants to come home.

The Texans were the worst team in the league last year. No way a player would want to play here for fair market value.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 08:09 AM
We dont need to bring in overpriced mid level talent though. We have enough mid and low level talent on the squad right now. AJ I really hope you are kidding on those numbers. Hey Vinny chime in on this signing I want your honest opinion, dont sugar coated give the pure crap of this signing.

aj.
03-12-2006, 08:23 AM
We dont need to bring in overpriced mid level talent though. We have enough mid and low level talent on the squad right now. AJ I really hope you are kidding on those numbers. Hey Vinny chime in on this signing I want your honest opinion, dont sugar coated give the pure crap of this signing.


I'm not kidding on those numbers. I'm sitting here reading it in the Chronicle Sports page C1.

The online version: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3717783.html

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 08:24 AM
If I could just type a post full of F-bombs I would. That is how I feel about this signing. AJ my question is do you think this is a good signing you seemed to be ok with Weaver and think he is a good addition. I think you have your next story for Voice of the Fan. Overspending for mid-level talent.

aj.
03-12-2006, 08:29 AM
AJ my question is do you think this is a good signing you seemed to be ok with Weaver and think he is a good addition.

Actually I've been a bit non-comittal on Weaver the player. In one of my early early posts I said that I haven't seen him play at all outside the what three? times the Texans have played Balt.

My concerns are more money related. I felt that the contract they gave Weigert was terrible back in '03 but that one turned out okay. I felt that the contracts they gave Walker, Wade, Smith, Greenwood were terrible and those fears are proving true. I'd say that Carr is another huge unknown but I don't want this thread to get hijacked like the rest. Draft day trades are a separate issue but also a peeve of mine.

I think you have your next story for Voice of the Fan. Overspending for mid-level talent.

You read my mind. On the rare occaision I will get and idea from here since there are a lot of insightful Voices out there, but I generally like to stay away from that since I don't want to simply regurgitate what's in here. I usually get an idea that pops into my head - like the "Price of Free Agency when You're a Bad Team" - and then develop it on my own without too much external influence other than the research I do reading dozens of online newspapers.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 08:34 AM
Gotcha. Well I cant wait to read your insight on the Voice of the Fan especially on this topic. As far as Weaver goes, he is not a pass rusher and the Baltimore papers wanted him as a DT to replace the departed Kimo. They are targeting a rusher in the draft at that. One that is strong against the run, but could take some pressure away from Terell Suggs.

edo783
03-12-2006, 09:03 AM
I see this a bit differently than some, most who are the "Draft Mario 1st" group. Trevor Price WAS a good DE who's career is on the downhill slide, over 30, and has a MAJOR issue with a back surgury and wasn't the full time starting DE for Denver, he got 25 Mill. With Weaver we get a young DE at 25, a 4 year starter on one of the best defenses in the NFL, Very good against the run and has improved against the pass, well thought of and considered a hard worker with a non-stop motor who we get for 26.5 Mill. Given we are at the bottom of the league that doesn't look like an unreasonable deal. An old mostly used up DE for 25 mill or a young up and coming expereinced DE for 25.6Mill....Mmmmmmm...I think I would take the young guy. Is he as good as Mario MIGHT be....Nope, but we weren't really going to take Mario anyway unless we traded down and that doesn't look very likely, so rather than not having a good DE on draft day because no trade was available, they now have one. I don't believe there was every any consideration to take Mario with the 1st pick. To many issues with doing that.

swtbound07
03-12-2006, 09:06 AM
new theory:

Each year in free agency, we have to overpay one player with the initials TW

last year todd wade,
this year tony weaver.

next year....?

Kaiser Toro
03-12-2006, 09:39 AM
Well I am going to default and trust the judgement of the Texans, but I must say this move kinda pisses me off. We overpay for a mid-level talent guy when we dont have to. One thing we need is a pass rush and we have the ability to get a lights out type of guy in the draft and we focus on getting a DE/DT tweener that has been average at best. Is Gaffney resigned? Is Jeb Putzier here? What about Teyo Johnson or something resembling a MLB? Yet we spend money on this cat. Not to knock Weaver, because when healthy he is strong against the run, but now it looks like we are set on a particular guy. DAMN Ferens this guy is the true reason we on the message board are constantly bitching about contracts and overpaying.

If interested here is a thread bringing up Ferens and some thoughts.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18277&highlight=ferens

bigTEXan8
03-12-2006, 10:09 AM
new theory:

Each year in free agency, we have to overpay one player with the initials TW

last year todd wade,
this year tony weaver.

next year....?

Taco Wallace (WR), Troy Walters (WR), Ty Warren (DT), Ted Washington (DT), Todd Weiner (haha...Weiner, OT), Travelle Wharton (OT), Tracy White (LB), Taylor Whitley (OG), Tank Williams (S), Tony Williams (DT), Troy Williamson (WR), Tory Woodbury (QB), Tony Wragge (OG).

HoustonFrog
03-12-2006, 10:18 AM
This is espn.com as updated today. Maybe Charlie begged them to pump up the guy:)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

Almost Anybody
03-12-2006, 11:56 AM
I think you guys should just cut through the BS, and call this a "hate Casserly" thread.

As a matter of fact, from now on, any thread where we sign any free agent, or draft any player, just call it "I hate Casserly, part ??"

You're not fooling anyone. And it's getting old.

Vinny
03-12-2006, 11:57 AM
You're not fooling anyone. And it's getting old.buckle up and get used to it.

Almost Anybody
03-12-2006, 12:04 PM
buckle up and get used to it.

Yeah, I guess I will. And I think some of you need to "buckle up and get used" to the FACT, that in this NFL, if you want to sign a FA, then you're going to have to overpay . . or else that FA won't sign with you. Period.

You want them to go after FAs, but when they do . . you *****. Yup, sounds pretty ignorant to me.

Coach C.
03-12-2006, 12:10 PM
We are not talking about Charlie, personally I think Charlie is decent, but Ferens is terrible. The guy only comes into town once every two weeks. The guy lives in Pittsburgh.

tulexan
03-12-2006, 12:14 PM
This is espn.com as updated today. Maybe Charlie begged them to pump up the guy:)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565


Maybe he actually is good.

MojoX
03-12-2006, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I guess I will. And I think some of you need to "buckle up and get used" to the FACT, that in this NFL, if you want to sign a FA, then you're going to have to overpay . . or else that FA won't sign with you. Period.

You want them to go after FAs, but when they do . . you *****. Yup, sounds pretty ignorant to me.
Yeah, I get a good chuckle out of this. FA is a two-way street. The players have to want to come here and if they don't, you have to bait them here. if you don't want to pay the price, then sit out the market. And lord knows what kind of hell would break out on this board if the Texans sat out free agency because it was too pricey.

Vinny
03-12-2006, 12:46 PM
Yeah, I guess I will. And I think some of you need to "buckle up and get used" to the FACT, that in this NFL, if you want to sign a FA, then you're going to have to overpay . . or else that FA won't sign with you. Period.

You want them to go after FAs, but when they do . . you *****. Yup, sounds pretty ignorant to me. You quoted me so I figure that was aimed at me.... Show me where I'm pimping X,Y, or Z player to come here in FA and what my ignorant plan is.

swtbound07
03-12-2006, 01:51 PM
I think you guys should just cut through the BS, and call this a "hate Casserly" thread.

As a matter of fact, from now on, any thread where we sign any free agent, or draft any player, just call it "I hate Casserly, part ??"

You're not fooling anyone. And it's getting old.

I said earlier i liked the jamel cook signing....but good lord, are we not as fans allowed to be outraged at the 32 MILLION dollars just spent to acquire anthony weaver and sage rosenfels? I hate casserly if he is going to do stuff like that. Be real now....show me where im supposed to be cheering these powerfull acquisitions. Yes, i want the texans to be active in free agency. Why??? because we are chock full of holes. No, i dont want to overpay for potential. We are doing that already, and his name is david carr.

ledzeppelin229
03-12-2006, 02:06 PM
We are not talking about Charlie, personally I think Charlie is decent, but Ferens is terrible. The guy only comes into town once every two weeks. The guy lives in Pittsburgh.

Wouldn't Charlie give him some sort of ceiling though on what should be spent? Or are the contracts completely in Ferens ballpark? Maybe we should just axe them both. Is the mob ready to be re-assembled?

gtexan02
03-12-2006, 02:46 PM
Can someone explain to me the cap impact of this spent money? It seems to me that if he is signed for 5 years, 26 million with 12million guaranteed, it won't be too bad. 26-12= 14 million over 5 years, leaves us at a little under 3 million a year against the cap, right? So as long as we don't cut him, then increasing his guarnateed money to lighten our cap hit is actually a pretty decent move, right? Or are signing bonuses counted against the cap?

bATXle red
03-12-2006, 02:52 PM
let's just be glad that after last season, any free agent wants to be in a texans uniform.

HoustonFrog
03-12-2006, 03:02 PM
Maybe he actually is good.

Completely agree. My comment was a backhanded one because people said they didn't see much in the guy and the article actually talks highly of him. We will see like anyone we bring in here. Seems like a good person. I always worry about two things though 1)What is in Charlies head and 2)How much money spent. I am guessing this takes away the need for drafting Mario high..which disappoints me.

Bongo59
03-12-2006, 05:57 PM
My stomach turned a bit after reading this...:wacko:
i told you..................CC is a clown and McNair is too for keeping him...............Look at KVB new deal with us and compare it to Weaver....................KVB was a freaking steal at 22 mil

TexanBacker93
03-12-2006, 06:10 PM
i told you..................CC is a clown and McNair is too for keeping him...............Look at KVB new deal with us and compare it to Weaver....................KVB was a freaking steal at 22 mil

It's usually much cheaper to keep your own free agent than to bring in someone. You start asking families to uproot and the players will expect more. I realize it doesn't cost that much to move, but if you look at numbers each year those players that stay usually sign for a little bit less than they could have gotten elsewhere.

Did the Texans pay more than they might have? Probably. If someone can make a suggestion as to who they should have brought in to play strongside DE, I'm all ears.

Bongo59
03-12-2006, 06:13 PM
Dhoward is alot better.......................

kcwilson
03-12-2006, 06:14 PM
Did the Texans pay more than they might have? Probably. If someone can make a suggestion as to who they should have brought in to play strongside DE, I'm all ears.

Exactly. Didn't it ever occur to anyone that some guys might just say, "I don't even want to talk to the Texans." This isn't Ebay, it is a seller's market, they talk to who they want to.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2006, 06:14 PM
Weaver is better then anyone we have. However he is injury prone but with a full offseason to heal that may be fixed.

He missed one game in his first 3 years. He had a couple of nagging injuries that cost him games in his 4th (last) year. If Vinny corrects me when I call Payne injury prone, I must say I don't see Weaver as injury prone.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2006, 06:19 PM
Pryce is a 4 time Pro Bowler. He has at least proven he can play. The Ravens just signed him to replace Weaver. Whats so bad about getting a guy who can play a couple of years and release him? It sure beats a team of potential that never is realized. Perhaps Weaver is the right choice. I donno...but this smells like Casserly all over again.

I would think if Kubiak thought it was worth bringing him in they would have contacted him. I trust a man who spent years working in the same organization as him. Maybe they called and he said he wanted a 5 year contract. I wouldn't give him anything more than 2.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2006, 06:23 PM
Dhoward is alot better.......................

I like Darren Howard, too. Maybe the Texans called him and he said he wasn't interested. Maybe he said it would take $20 million guaranteed. Maybe they just weren't interested in him. Nobody posting in this forum has any inside information. All we can do is speculate.

Meloy
03-13-2006, 08:53 AM
All I've heard for months is the Texans gotta have an end that can shake up the QB with hurries and sacks. So they sign a run stopper? What? I think Peek and Babins are going to do ok on the right side, but I can't believe none of you are going off like a rocket at this "terrible" pick up. All I've read so far on this board is "Anthony Weaver is above average." Again, What? McClain even said over the weekend, now that Weaver is on board, the Texans will not trade down for Mario Williams. What? Williams is compared to Julius Peppers as a sack getting monster and Weaver can't get to the QB. Oh, lordy, here we go.:brickwall

bdiddy
03-13-2006, 10:54 AM
You need to stop the run first before you can even think about stopping the pass. The Texans run defense last year was horrible. Weaver will be a good run stopper at DE on first and second downs. He will shift to DT on passing situations with Robaire Smith going out. Peek and Babin will man the DE positions in passing situations.

Running Situations:

Weaver - TJ - Payne/Robaire - Babin/Peek (likely Babin)

Passing situations

Babin - Weaver - TJ - Peek

I think this a pretty nice addition, just because media hacks do not know much about football does not mean this will help bolster are defense. I think the (1) switching to a 4-3, and (2) signing Weaver immediately upgrades our run defense.

thunderkyss
03-13-2006, 11:04 AM
You need to stop the run first before you can even think about stopping the pass. The Texans run defense last year was horrible. Weaver will be a good run stopper at DE on first and second downs. He will shift to DT on passing situations with Robaire Smith going out. Peek and Babin will man the DE positions in passing situations.


It depends really. If you've got lots of speed on offense, and a big arm at QB, you can jump ahead of teams so fast, that they give up on the run by themselves...........

If only we had some speed at WR, and a QB with a big arm.........

Chance_C
03-13-2006, 11:05 AM
Running Situations:

Weaver - TJ - Payne/Robaire - Babin/Peek (likely Babin)

Passing situations

Babin - Weaver - TJ - Peek


I may be wrong but I don't think TJ will be taking any time away from Robaire or Seth.

Kaiser Toro
03-13-2006, 11:08 AM
You need to stop the run first before you can even think about stopping the pass. The Texans run defense last year was horrible. Weaver will be a good run stopper at DE on first and second downs. He will shift to DT on passing situations with Robaire Smith going out. Peek and Babin will man the DE positions in passing situations.

Running Situations:

Weaver - TJ - Payne/Robaire - Babin/Peek (likely Babin)

Passing situations

Babin - Weaver - TJ - Peek

I think this a pretty nice addition, just because media hacks do not know much about football does not mean this will help bolster are defense. I think the (1) switching to a 4-3, and (2) signing Weaver immediately upgrades our run defense.

Just to frame this properly. The Texans were 13th against the run in 2004. We led the league in holding opponents to 4 rushing TD's for the year. After 2004 we let go of Glenn and Sharper we added Greenwood, TJ and Buchanon (Wong was injured) and dropped to the worst. By no means am I making a correlation, but this team as a whole did not forget how to stop the run they most likely gave up on the staff and themselves.

U4ikrob
03-13-2006, 02:03 PM
A bit pricey - but a decent signing. IMHO he will be a good "Quality" player for us, but maybe not the "Impact" player some folks wanted. I think the Texans are setting up there defense for the 4-3 so picked him up as good depth and a decent starter as they transition their defense into a 4-3.

IMO you cant fix every hole we have on this team this year. - Not gonna happen.

IMO the Texans are developign their core players again much like 5 years ago and are lookign to players they will be building around. Weaver loosk to be a solid DE to build around and got a good deal when the Market only hada few decent DE's available to us. We had the chance to shoot for a starter on another team in Weaver - and took a shot. I think the shot wasa bit high also like some others on the board here, but I also am thinking like other mentioned the FA price went up immediately when we hit the ground and when we started talking serious to him about offer's they knew we were ripe for the picking. We [the Texans] had little to nothing to bargain with except Money at this point as no good FA will want to come play here so were having to overpay and go for Hometown guys to try and pull at the intagibles to make a deal happen.

Bottom line - just getting decent players to talk to us about a deal at this point is a struggle and its only going to get harder. We have no cheerleader types on our team going and trying to recruit other young good players to our team like other more established teams do. Not to mention our record doesnt exactly inspire much confidence in the players we do have or those interested in our team. We just have to be strong in our approach - Disciplined in studying, make an offer and work wit hthe people to try and make something happen.

Vinny
03-13-2006, 03:11 PM
Weaver is on 610am being interviewed right now

Kaiser Toro
03-13-2006, 03:11 PM
Weaver is on 610am being interviewed right now

please keep us informed