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View Full Version : Mario with the first pick?


dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 04:04 PM
I haven't seen this really addressed so I would like to know what everybody thinks. Everybody expects us to take Bush (hopefully we will) if we don't trade down, but what if Kubiak believes Williams is the better pick for the team than Bush. In most other drafts Williams would be a front runner for the 1st pick and is only in his position because of this years depth. This doesn't negate the fact that he's a monster DE and could definetely impact the defense. What do you all think of this possibility and how do you think you would react if it did indeed happen.

Kaiser Toro
03-10-2006, 04:07 PM
I haven't seen this really addressed so I would like to know what everybody thinks. Everybody expects us to take Bush (hopefully we will) if we don't trade down, but what if Kubiak believes Williams is the better pick for the team than Bush. In most other drafts Williams would be a front runner for the 1st pick and is only in his position because of this years depth. This doesn't negate the fact that he's a monster DE and could definetely impact the defense. What do you all think of this possibility and how do you think you would react if it did indeed happen.

I see us taking Mario or trading down or taking Bush and trading him with whoever takes Mario.

But to answer your question I want Mario by any means necessary.

bdiddy
03-10-2006, 04:13 PM
Very unlikely. The only way we take Mario Williams with the first pick is if:

(1) we have a very good free agency period addressing several needs; and

(2) absolutely no one wants to trade up into the top spot.

Lets face the Texans should be able to get something out of the Jets to move up to get Bush and/or Leinart. It may not be a lot, but if we want Mario and could add two/three picks this would be better than merely picking Williams in the top spot.

Kaiser Toro
03-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Very unlikely. The only way we take Mario Williams with the first pick is if:

(1) we have a very good free agency period addressing several needs; and

(2) absolutely no one wants to trade up into the top spot.

Lets face the Texans should be able to get something out of the Jets to move up to get Bush and/or Leinart. It may not be a lot, but if we want Mario and could add two/three picks this would be better than merely picking Williams in the top spot.

Is that purely speculation? ;)

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2006, 04:18 PM
I think with Mario's workouts , you could consider him a good enough prospect to be picked 1st . He could provide the quickest results on the field .

What if Bush runs a 4.35 , does he drop as a prospect ?

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 04:24 PM
I think with Mario's workouts , you could consider him a good enough prospect to be picked 1st . He could provide the quickest results on the field .

What if Bush runs a 4.35 , does he drop as a prospect ?

I think that would definetely drop Bush's stock, his speed is one of the selling points. I don't think it would drop him out of the top 5, but it would give us and excuse not to get him. By the way does anyone know how Mario's workouts compare to Peppers.

Kaiser Toro
03-10-2006, 04:30 PM
Tale of the tape. Fair and balanced you make the call

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=404619

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 04:30 PM
Very unlikely. The only way we take Mario Williams with the first pick is if:

(1) we have a very good free agency period addressing several needs; and

(2) absolutely no one wants to trade up into the top spot.

Lets face the Texans should be able to get something out of the Jets to move up to get Bush and/or Leinart. It may not be a lot, but if we want Mario and could add two/three picks this would be better than merely picking Williams in the top spot.

1) That sounds like the requirements for Bush. DE is a need for us so if we didn't address that in FA there is a very good chance that that would indicate we are shooting for Williams.
2) That was kind of my implication, the way its shaping up I don't really see any teams at the top that are really desperate for a RB or the top spot.

Jets maybe but they probably have more holes than we do and they probably would be happy with whatever landed in their lap because more than likely it would be a need position for them. Also with Pennington re-signing there is less motivation for them to move up.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2006, 04:36 PM
In 2002 Peppers was 6'6 and 283 lbs . He ran a 4.68 forty and lifted 225 lbs 24 times .

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 04:42 PM
Tale of the tape. Fair and balanced you make the call

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=404619

That is simply amazing. Williams is faster and has more ups than Peppers who played power forward and he did this at a higher weight. This guy is a monster, the Texans have a difficult choice on their hands. Really I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about. I like Young but no way is he better for this team than Williams. The debate should be Williams/Bush not Bush/Young.

tulexan
03-10-2006, 04:43 PM
It should be noted that the surface of this year's combine was faster than the previous years.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2006, 04:46 PM
I think William's is head and shoulders above any other DE . Bush is not the only RB and DBrick is not the only OT prospect but Mario's the only super DE prospect .

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 04:47 PM
It should be noted that the surface of this year's combine was faster than the previous years.

Oh, good point. I didn't take that into account, but at 4.66 I still think it's impressive.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2006, 04:48 PM
It should be noted that the surface of this year's combine was faster than the previous years.
Matt Steven's clocked in at 4.4 forty to test the course .:tomato:

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 04:49 PM
I think William's is head and shoulders above any other DE . Bush is not the only RB and DBrick is not the only OT prospect but Mario's the only super DE prospect .

Hmm, I would hold off on that until after Bush's workouts, he may prove he is head and shoulders above his competition as well. Bush may be the only super RB prospect.

jerek
03-10-2006, 04:50 PM
I really like what I see out of Mario, and I am still not overly sold that we spend the #1 overall and 50M+ on a situational back/offensive specialist, especially when we already have DD here.

People have been bitching about us passing on Ju Pep for four years now ... well this might be the perfect chance to rectify that.

That said, I hate spending the number one overall on a DE. It just doesn't seem right, no matter how great the guy is, to spend the #1 on the DE position. Maybe I am too traditional, or maybe I am making a lot out of little.

Ideally, we can trade down to the 3-5 spot, but I just don't see how that will happen. We don't know who is desperate for who for quite awhile yet, so that may still work out.

tulexan
03-10-2006, 04:52 PM
I think William's is head and shoulders above any other DE . Bush is not the only RB and DBrick is not the only OT prospect but Mario's the only super DE prospect .

I think all three players are head and shoulders above the other players at their position. QB and WR are really the only positions where there is some debate.

Bush is clearly the best RB, Ferguson is clearly the best OT, Williams is clearly the best DE, Davis is clearly the best TE, Jean Gilles is clearly the best OG, and Hawk is clearly the best LB.

This is a very deep draft and there are a lot of quality players at almost all positions 3 or 4 players down the rankings. Tamba Hali and Mathias Kiwanuka are very good prospects as well.

BuffSoldier
03-10-2006, 04:55 PM
I think with Mario's workouts , you could consider him a good enough prospect to be picked 1st . He could provide the quickest results on the field .

What if Bush runs a 4.35 , does he drop as a prospect ?

I dont think that Kubiak would take anyone at #1 besides Bush, even as much as we all would love for him to. I think we would have to trade down to even think about gettin Williams or my favorite Brick.

And to answer your question, I dont think that Bush's stock drops unless he injures himself at his pro-day. If he runs a 4.35 that will be faster than any other back, still. And anyway, Bush doesnt have to run a 4.2, just pop in his tape and you can see that he can run away from anybody on the field. His speed will not be questioned his inside running may.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2006, 04:56 PM
If Bush runs a 4.28 forty but weighs in at 190 is he a better prospect than Williams . I see Williams as the player with the least question marks .

BuffSoldier
03-10-2006, 05:00 PM
If Bush runs a 4.28 forty but weighs in at 190 is he a better prospect than Williams . I see Williams as the player with the least question marks .

I think Bush will weigh in at around 205 and run low 4.3 or high 4.2s, but I see Feguson as the player with the least question marks. For some reason I see OTs as more of you know what you are getting players, but thats just me.

jerek
03-10-2006, 05:00 PM
If Bush runs a 4.28 forty but weighs in at 190 is he a better prospect than Williams . I see Williams as the player with the least question marks .

That is probably very true. Great DEs are many times simply the best athletes, and Williams is simply a primo athlete. Not to diminish what they must do, but it is a lot 'easier' to learn to bullrush the passer than it is to read defensive coverages, etc. etc. I know that I am oversimplifying the position but I believe that the principle stands.

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 05:00 PM
To be honest I really like Williams, but I think I will feel somehow disappointed if we don't get Bush. I'm sure I'll get over it once the season starts, but right now there isn't enough football stuff going on to distract me from the draft.

dat_boy_yec
03-10-2006, 05:05 PM
I think Bush will weigh in at around 205 and run low 4.3 or high 4.2s, but I see Feguson as the player with the least question marks. For some reason I see OTs as more of you know what you are getting players, but thats just me.

Sorry, I don't agree with that I see Williams and Bush as the ones with the least question. The thing I think is that with D'brick is how long will it take before he makes an impact and by that time will he really be the best option for us. Both Williams and Bush have very few questions as well as bring an immediate impact. I just think these two guys are the best options for the Texans at the top of the draft.

Porky
03-10-2006, 05:09 PM
I don't get how Bush will drop with a 4.35 40. That's exremely fast for a RB. Besides that, the man has incredible quickness, an extremely fast first step, and by his second step he has the afterburners on at full speed. Just look at the tape. It's ridicoulous to suggest that a 4.35 will somehow drop him.

As to Mario, I am down with that choice, if that is the preference, but I would much prefer that we trade down and take him. At #1, my preference is Bush. We need another playmaker badly, and there is no better playmaker in this draft than Bush by a large margin imo. Taking Mario at number #1 would prove that Kubes and Casserly have larger nads than I give them credit for, but he won't put butts in the seats, and it's a pipe dream to think we take anyone but Bush at #1.

Bubbajwp
03-10-2006, 05:32 PM
I don't get how Bush will drop with a 4.35 40. That's exremely fast for a RB. Besides that, the man has incredible quickness, an extremely fast first step, and by his second step he has the afterburners on at full speed. Just look at the tape. It's ridicoulous to suggest that a 4.35 will somehow drop him.

As to Mario, I am down with that choice, if that is the preference, but I would much prefer that we trade down and take him. At #1, my preference is Bush. We need another playmaker badly, and there is no better playmaker in this draft than Bush by a large margin imo. Taking Mario at number #1 would prove that Kubes and Casserly have larger nads than I give them credit for, but he won't put butts in the seats, and it's a pipe dream to think we take anyone but Bush at #1.
You just read my mind. Bush's greatest asset is his quickness not his top speed.

Kaiser Toro
03-11-2006, 08:42 AM
It should be noted that the surface of this year's combine was faster than the previous years.

Was the weightlifting bench padded with more springs as well? :)

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 08:45 AM
Tulexan it was not as fast as the field strip that OHio state brought out for their pro day. Either way Mario is a beast, and when his motor is going Parcells says he could be the next best DE since not Ju. Pep but Reggie White. Now I am not going to say that, but it is rare for a person with that size, speed, and strength combo that can play inside, outside, and in a two point stance.

Honoring Earl 34
03-11-2006, 10:17 AM
I have a question , can a stud DE be effective without good DTs ? I guess you could say the same thing for LBs .

YoungTexanFan
03-11-2006, 10:27 AM
I have a question , can a stud DE be effective without good DTs ? I guess you could say the same thing for LBs .

Well, I wouldn't mind Mario at all really, but to answer your question: We have an abundance to good DT's. We also have last years #16 overall pick, who happens to be a typical 1 gap pennatrator. Robaire can also collapse the pocket.

So then you think, and you start to anylize our D-line. With Babin penciled in for now at WDE, that gives us a guy who specialized in getting to the QB with his hands down on the QB's blind side. You then put Robaire and TJ at the DT's. If we were to end up with Mario, we get a 300 lbs mountain of a man who runs a 4.7 and did 35 reps, who is also very adept at rushing the passer. Our D-line instantly becomes our strong point on our team.


Babin-----Smith-----TJ------Mario


You've got your pass rush specialist in Babin and TJ, and run stoppers in Smith and Mario, which both of the later two are VERY capable of collapsing the pocket and getting to the QB...they just happen to be BIG men who can stop the run.

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 10:34 AM
We have Robaire Smith who was a stud as a one gap penetrator in Tennessee. Add clog Seth Payne and why did we pick this dude Travis Johnson and we have the DTs to keep Mario cool and C and G off of our MLB.

Coach C.
03-11-2006, 10:34 AM
One thing YTF put Peek were Babin is and we have a pass rush.

Honoring Earl 34
03-11-2006, 10:45 AM
There was a formula on another board about how to tell if a player is explosive . Its BP reps + vertical jump + broad jump . A number over 70 is good , Mario and Davis have 85s . Ngata at 340 is over 70 .

I am sliding Williams way , even with the first pick if needed . If thats my guy and I can't get a good deal why not pick him .

I agree with the fact that we have above average DTs . I'm not sold on our LBs . Would it be crazy to take Mario #1 and a LB #2 then a OL and BPA in the 3rd ? Can we trade Babin for a 3rd ?

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 10:48 AM
One thing YTF put Peek were Babin is and we have a pass rush.

Peek will only go in for Babin on passing downs, 3rd downs.

I think that Williams is quickly becoming the #1 overall pick for me. To have Babin/Peek switching off on one side, Smith and TJ clogging up the middle, and to have Peppers Jr. on the other end, that could be a fearsome front 4. JM:twocents:

YoungTexanFan
03-11-2006, 11:42 AM
Peek will only go in for Babin on passing downs, 3rd downs.

I think that Williams is quickly becoming the #1 overall pick for me. To have Babin/Peek switching off on one side, Smith and TJ clogging up the middle, and to have Peppers Jr. on the other end, that could be a fearsome front 4. JM:twocents:

You beat me to the response.

Peek should be used as a situational pass rusher. Babin is the better talent, you just may not like him as much. Even without our trade he would have gone in the early second. Peek wouldn't have. There is a reasoning behind that too.

Also, I would note that Mario is no longer Peppers Jr., he is Peppers 2.0

whiskeyrbl
03-11-2006, 11:58 AM
As you can tell by my signature i was a Bush wanter but i think i have changed my mind. With the FO talking to Weaver DE from the Ravens,i see a good DL shaping up with the addition of Mario. DL would look like Mario/Smith/ Payne/(TJ)/ Weaver.Not bad at all.I think the perfect scenario would be to get Tenn to trade up with us for the #1 for their #3,this years 2nd rd or 3rd rd, and next years 1st rd.

MorKnolle
03-11-2006, 02:03 PM
Well, I wouldn't mind Mario at all really, but to answer your question: We have an abundance to good DT's. We also have last years #16 overall pick, who happens to be a typical 1 gap pennatrator. Robaire can also collapse the pocket.

So then you think, and you start to anylize our D-line. With Babin penciled in for now at WDE, that gives us a guy who specialized in getting to the QB with his hands down on the QB's blind side. You then put Robaire and TJ at the DT's. If we were to end up with Mario, we get a 300 lbs mountain of a man who runs a 4.7 and did 35 reps, who is also very adept at rushing the passer. Our D-line instantly becomes our strong point on our team.


Babin-----Smith-----TJ------Mario


You've got your pass rush specialist in Babin and TJ, and run stoppers in Smith and Mario, which both of the later two are VERY capable of collapsing the pocket and getting to the QB...they just happen to be BIG men who can stop the run.

I like your line other than I think Peek is the preferred guy of the coaches over Babin, but both will see significant playing time there unless they bring in another DE too. It sounds like they really like Peek's athleticism, energy and aggressiveness, so for now I think he's their main RDE, and with Mario on the opposite side he'll attract most of the attention and double teams and let Peek and Babin have one-on-one matchups. I saw that they are supposed to be bringing in Anthony Weaver for a workout, so if they sign him I don't know if that means they aren't planning on drafting Mario or if they'd put Weaver at LDE and Mario at RDE as our main pass rusher (he's definitely athletic enough to be our main pass rusher) and then have Babin as a backup and either keep Peek at LB or else maybe just not resign him, but I think the way they're talking about Peek that they want to get him on the field somehow.

bigTEXan8
03-11-2006, 03:55 PM
You beat me to the response.

Peek should be used as a situational pass rusher. Babin is the better talent, you just may not like him as much. Even without our trade he would have gone in the early second. Peek wouldn't have. There is a reasoning behind that too.

Also, I would note that Mario is no longer Peppers Jr., he is Peppers 2.0

Oh...I like Babin. I think Babin will be much better as a DE than Peek could ever be. I just think that what Peek has going for him is that he's got such a big, constant motor, he would make a great situational pass-rusher.

I agree with you on the Peppers 2.0. That would just be awesome to have. This just came to me though. I know there are some people on this board think that taking DC over Peppers in the 2002 draft was a mistake. Well, do you want the Texans to make the same mistake this year? The Texans don't need another RB, they need a solid pass-rusher, and Mario would be the right choice.