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View Full Version : Steve McKinney signs new 4 year deal!!!!


texanfan2002114
03-07-2006, 09:57 PM
Just reported on fox 26 sports here in Houston. Mark Berman said the Steve McKinney just confirmed a new 4 year deal that will save the Texans cap space and terms were not disclosed.

Bubbajwp
03-07-2006, 09:59 PM
Thats a good start.

run-david-run
03-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Good news. Hopefully this means he will move to Guard, where he can have some positvie impact on the Line. The question now would be, who is gonna be our starting center next season?

edo783
03-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Pretty good LG, but please, please, please don't let him play center.

texman8
03-07-2006, 10:02 PM
If McKinney is playing next season; it will be at LG. Prefer Hogdgen or Mangold at C.

Texans Pride
03-07-2006, 10:02 PM
Good find Steve, even if I do dislike the man!

bdiddy
03-07-2006, 10:08 PM
I truly believe Greg Eslinger will be our starting center next year. The lineup will look like this:

Pitts - McKinney - Eslinger - Weary/Hogdgon - Wade/Wand

Wiegart will be cut as a salary cap move.

Possibly go after a guard in the draft.

mexican_texan
03-07-2006, 10:41 PM
I truly believe Greg Eslinger will be our starting center next year. The lineup will look like this:

Pitts - McKinney - Eslinger - Weary/Hogdgon - Wade/Wand

Wiegart will be cut as a salary cap move.

Possibly go after a guard in the draft.
:hmmm: :hmmm: :monkey: :howdy: I could see that happen

phan1
03-07-2006, 10:42 PM
I truly believe Greg Eslinger will be our starting center next year. The lineup will look like this:

Pitts - McKinney - Eslinger - Weary/Hogdgon - Wade/Wand

Wiegart will be cut as a salary cap move.

Possibly go after a guard in the draft.

Who's Eslinger?

beerlover
03-07-2006, 10:49 PM
Mangold is blowing up the draft board with his size and nasty streak he is a late 1st rd. mover. Jets are trying to trade Abraham so they can get in front of the Texans to aquire him. I'm afraid Eslinger will get killed playing center in the NFL against these big NT/DT's. Mangold however can probably hold his own. He would also fit in very nice with McKinney & learn on a fast track :twocents:

cap1
03-07-2006, 10:50 PM
Who's Eslinger?


He is coming out in this draft. He played at Minnesota.

TexansTrueFan
03-07-2006, 10:56 PM
i dont know if i like that to much, but its whatever.

cap1
03-07-2006, 10:59 PM
I am glad McKinney did the that. He really had no choice except to restructure his contract. The Texans had he upperhand in this deal. They could have easily cut him and save almost 4 million the cap.

MorKnolle
03-07-2006, 11:09 PM
I truly believe Greg Eslinger will be our starting center next year. The lineup will look like this:

Pitts - McKinney - Eslinger - Weary/Hogdgon - Wade/Wand

Wiegart will be cut as a salary cap move.

Possibly go after a guard in the draft.

I would much rather keep Wiegert over McKinney. He is a better OG and cutting McKinney would have saved more money so it wouldn't make much sense to keep McKinney and cut Wiegert, are you sure that it wasn't Wiegert that was resigned? I had heard he was willing to restructure and wanted to "retire in Houston" while last I heard McKinney didn't want to take a pay cut.

YoungTexanFan
03-07-2006, 11:15 PM
So we are stuck with him for another 4 years?

I was thinking at best he would just take a staright up pay cut and finish out his contract or be released outright.

This MUST be a joke. We can't expect to build our new offensive line with the weakest link from out last one. We are only as strong as our weakest link. Even with Fergueson, they will still go straight through McKinny's chest to Carr.

Grid
03-07-2006, 11:20 PM
McKinney is an LG.. not a Center.. our old coaching staff played him at Center for god knows what reason. He is a much better LG. If he has become affordable, then this is a good deal.

stevo3883
03-07-2006, 11:21 PM
So we are stuck with him for another 4 years?

I was thinking at best he would just take a staright up pay cut and finish out his contract or be released outright.

This MUST be a joke. We can't expect to build our new offensive line with the weakest link from out last one. We are only as strong as our weakest link. Even with Fergueson, they will still go straight through McKinny's chest to Carr.

we'll most likely cut him after next season.

YoungTexanFan
03-07-2006, 11:27 PM
we'll most likely cut him after next season.

Then why sign him long term? We should be incurring a large cap hit next year if we release him.

samomin
03-07-2006, 11:28 PM
McKinney's play has been dissected on this board a lot so I won't mention it. What I'm interested in is his signal calling ability for the line. Is there a way to judge that from the information available to us? Is so, I'd like to hear your opions on this.

I'm wondering this because if we decide to play a rookie at center the coaches might still let Mckinney call the assigments on the line.

MorKnolle
03-07-2006, 11:32 PM
McKinney's play has been dissected on this board a lot so I won't mention it. What I'm interested in is his signal calling ability for the line. Is there a way to judge that from the information available to us? Is so, I'd like to hear your opions on this.

I'm wondering this because if we decide to play a rookie at center the coaches might still let Mckinney call the assigments on the line.

Good question, I'm not sure who the signal caller was on the OLine this year or who they'll depend on next year, I really doubt it would be any rookie that we bring in though, so probably McKinney or Wiegert if either of them is still around. I think McKinney did some this year, it seemed like he was trying to point out blitzers to watch and stuff like that, and usually some kind of miscommunication between him and either Milford Brown, Fred Weary, or whoever else we had at OG ensued and David Carr was quickly on his backside.

throwANDREtheBALL
03-07-2006, 11:33 PM
If your a REAL fan of FOOTBALL, you know this is another crappy move by the Front Office.

Actually, its ridiculous how many of you think this is good news.

WAKE UP!

bdiddy
03-07-2006, 11:39 PM
I would much rather keep Wiegert over McKinney. He is a better OG and cutting McKinney would have saved more money so it wouldn't make much sense to keep McKinney and cut Wiegert, are you sure that it wasn't Wiegert that was resigned? I had heard he was willing to restructure and wanted to "retire in Houston" while last I heard McKinney didn't want to take a pay cut.

If I could have the Wiegart of two years ago I might agree with you. However, Weigart is a 11 year veteran with a LONG list of injuries. The fact remains McKinney is much younger and has played almost every down he has been with the Texans. McKinney (with his restructured deal) can help the Texans more than Wiegart at this point. Additionally, Wiegart's feet have slowed noticeably (may be a result of frequent injuries). Cutting Wiegart would save between $3-3.5 million.

To others who have concerns about Eslinger. Need I note that Tom Nalen weighs 285lbs. and is the prototype center for Kubiak's blocking scheme. Eslinger comes out of Minnesota, which runs the zone blocking scheme and has a history of producing quality lineman. Additionally, he has great feet which is an absolute must in this system. Must remember zone blocking is not about power but about angles, completely different style than traditional scheme. I think we can get Eslinger with the first pick in the 3rd round (that is a good value).

Grid
03-07-2006, 11:50 PM
If your a REAL fan of FOOTBALL, you know this is another crappy move by the Front Office.

Actually, its ridiculous how many of you think this is good news.

WAKE UP!

If your a REAL fan of football.. you wont ever post here again... in disgust, of course.

beerlover
03-08-2006, 01:38 AM
To others who have concerns about Eslinger. Need I note that Tom Nalen weighs 285lbs. and is the prototype center for Kubiak's blocking scheme. Eslinger comes out of Minnesota, which runs the zone blocking scheme and has a history of producing quality lineman. Additionally, he has great feet which is an absolute must in this system. Must remember zone blocking is not about power but about angles, completely different style than traditional scheme. I think we can get Eslinger with the first pick in the 3rd round (that is a good value).

good post & with Reggie Bush in fold I can understand it, hell maybe even live with it. However no way Greg can hold the point of attack in a passing situation against 340 lb elite professional nose tackles or 310 lb all pro DT's. the pocket will concave and believe me Carr will be in the fetal position more often than not and Kubiac's system is devised to run the ball then stretch the field vertically.

I'm not speaking for any particular mod here but this has been addressed with McKinney in the past @ the Center position. all I got to say is thank God he is going to LG :redtowel: I really like the man personally, he is a very positive, hardworking individual who can teach alot to the younger linemen.

This draft has just gotten alot more focused for one beerlover. The Texans need to draft a Center with the 1st pick of the 2nd rd. if Nick Mangold from the Ohio State is still on the board. All this talk centering around the #1 overall selection is too much, just go ahead and take Bush. Lets focus on the offensive line next and shore up the inside lanes to Carr, and maybe add some offensive weapons via free agency. After that....its all defense baby :baby:

Grid
03-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Rumor has it that the Jets are trying to trade Abraham for the #15 pick from Atlanta so that they can get ahead of us to get Nick Mangold to replace Mawae.

This tells me 2 things. or..more specifically..this lends credence to 2 more rumors.

Rumor #1: Nick Mangold is flying up boards
Rumor #2: We are high on Nick Mangold

It is also rumored that I will post rumors on rumors that allude to rumors being rumored to rumor the rumor.


Anyway. With Drew Hodgdon..do we NEED another rookie center? Seems to me that we should be thinking more about signing a veteran center in FA (perhaps Mawae) to hold down the fort until Hodgdon is solidified as the starter.

beerlover
03-08-2006, 02:04 AM
Rumor has it that the Jets are trying to trade Abraham for the #15 pick from Atlanta so that they can get ahead of us to get Nick Mangold to replace Mawae.

This tells me 2 things. or..more specifically..this lends credence to 2 more rumors.

Rumor #1: Nick Mangold is flying up boards
Rumor #2: We are high on Nick Mangold

It is also rumored that I will post rumors on rumors that allude to rumors being rumored to rumor the rumor.


Anyway. With Drew Hodgdon..do we NEED another rookie center? Seems to me that we should be thinking more about signing a veteran center in FA (perhaps Mawae) to hold down the fort until Hodgdon is solidified as the starter.

thats really strange yet quite funny Grid, so you tell me- You are OK with a 5th round, injured, stork legged looking, played only in limited action rookie to the #1 overall rated Center coming out of College when you know this is a dire need of the Texans that for the benifit of the Texans and David Carr needs to be addressed?

Grid
03-08-2006, 02:10 AM
hah.. well I see it slightly different.

for one, when he was playing he looked pretty good for a rookie I thought.

for two, yah he was injured..and because of that you cant really say what ya have in him. He may come back from it and win the starting spot without any issues.

All im saying is that we have a rookie who didnt look half bad on our roster.. do we want to use a high pick on another center before we even know what we have?

Also.. 5th round for a center isnt the same as 5th round for a WR or RB or whatever... Centers usually start going around the 3rd round.. so 5th round is middle of the pack for them.

ALL that being said.. I wouldnt be against getting Mangold or Eslinger.... just to be doubley sure that we have talent on the line.

I just dont think its a foregone conclusion.

AustinJB
03-08-2006, 03:30 AM
Here's a link for a little more info on this contract restructure.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3708424.html

Runner
03-08-2006, 05:28 AM
Here's a link for a little more info on this contract restructure.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3708424.html

Just a $2M bonus - sounds cuttable after this year. I can accept keeping him for a year as the team transitions. I wouldn't be surpried to see him come out of camp a back-up.


On the other hand, our running statisitics may indicate that McKinney is a good run blocker in the zone scheme:

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=271607#post271607

aj.
03-08-2006, 06:27 AM
McKinney was well aware of his cap number before this restructure and has said since mid-season last year that he would do 'whatever it takes,' i.e., pay cut/restructure, to stay here. I heard him say that more than once on his radio gig.

Freebirds and Velocity appear to be doing well so he can probably get by with a measly $2 million bonus.

Texans Horror
03-08-2006, 06:44 AM
I think Sherman is setting up competitions. He has three capable tackles and three capable guards, depending on where you place Pitts. (T = Wade, Wand, Pitts; G = Weary, McKinney, Weigert)

That's six players to five spots, and I still think they will pick up a new center in Free Agency. So my gut is telling me that we are going to have a high-priced backup team. I still think the line will look something like this come September:
Wand - Pitts - ? - Weary - Wade

Another possibility is

Wand - McKinney - ? - Weary - Pitts

That center is the lodestone.

Runner
03-08-2006, 06:50 AM
I think Sherman is setting up competitions. He has three capable tackles and three capable guards, depending on where you place Pitts. (T = Wade, Wand, Pitts; G = Weary, McKinney, Weigert)

That's six players to five spots, and I still think they will pick up a new center in Free Agency. So my gut is telling me that we are going to have a high-priced backup team. I still think the line will look something like this come September:
Wand - Pitts - ? - Weary - Wade

Another possibility is

Wand - McKinney - ? - Weary - Pitts

That center is the lodestone.

Good post. That is why I really want to get a strong, proven center in free agency like Bentley. I'd be willing to offer him more than other teams because he is worth more to us. Money talks.

If we don't acquire Bentley, I'd like to see us use our second round pick on a center to help us next year (if not this year).

nunusguy
03-08-2006, 07:20 AM
"Three-fifths of the Texans' offensive line is now set (below). The right guard and right tackle positions will be filled by some combination of Todd Wade, Zach Wiegert and Milford Brown.
• Center — Drew Hodgdon, whose rookie year ended early with an broken foot.

• Left guard — Steve McKinney, the former Texas A&M lineman who is moving from center.

• Left tackle — Chester Pitts, who has started each of the Texans' 64 games.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3708424.html
************************************************** ****
With the restructure for McKinney, maybe two-fifths of our OL is now set,
but three-fifths as McClain claims ? I don't think so. Even though Hodgdon looked good the short time he was in the lineup, he did have a season ending
injury and there has to be uncertainty surrounding his recovery and performance afterwards.
But even though McKinney is less talented than Weigert, being able to play
both guard and center makes him more versatile and he is far, far more
durable than the injury-prone Weigert.

whiskeyrbl
03-08-2006, 07:20 AM
Hey guys don't forget Maewae a 5 time pro bowl center from the Jets is available,so if we could land him,we could draft Eslinger in the 3rd rd and let him bulk up a couple of years before throwing him to the wolves.:yahoo:

Kaiser Toro
03-08-2006, 07:34 AM
Well put............

Agreed. I have been on Carr more so than McKinney the last couple of years and they share the blame in my opinion of bad recognition or signal calling at the LOS. I cannot fathom leaving them both in the same position and expect different results. There are many here who have spoken about McKinney being a better G than C and I hope like heck we see him at G.

My only concern now is possibly bringing in a center that will be a Rookie or a second year pro with only a couple of games under his belt. This also does not look like a viable option. I really like Mangold and if there is one guy who looks like he can make the transition from college to a grizzled rookie it would be him.

No matter how you skin this one, it was win for the Texans in my opinion. More cap to play with and a veteran retained who can play multiple positions on the line that wants to be here.

MorKnolle
03-08-2006, 07:44 AM
If I could have the Wiegart of two years ago I might agree with you. However, Weigart is a 11 year veteran with a LONG list of injuries. The fact remains McKinney is much younger and has played almost every down he has been with the Texans. McKinney (with his restructured deal) can help the Texans more than Wiegart at this point. Additionally, Wiegart's feet have slowed noticeably (may be a result of frequent injuries). Cutting Wiegart would save between $3-3.5 million.

To others who have concerns about Eslinger. Need I note that Tom Nalen weighs 285lbs. and is the prototype center for Kubiak's blocking scheme. Eslinger comes out of Minnesota, which runs the zone blocking scheme and has a history of producing quality lineman. Additionally, he has great feet which is an absolute must in this system. Must remember zone blocking is not about power but about angles, completely different style than traditional scheme. I think we can get Eslinger with the first pick in the 3rd round (that is a good value).

I'm going to respectfully disagree on McKinney and Wiegert. Wiegert was serviceable at RT for us at the end of the year, and was a solid OG still. McKinney was a terrible C and a decent OG, pretty good at run blocking but still lousy at pass blocking. Wiegert isn't quite what he used to be but I think he's a better OG than McKinney. McKinney would have saved $3.9 million to cut straight-up, and last I had heard he didn't want to restructure a deal (I still haven't seen anything official about us resigning him) so I was really hoping he'd go, meanwhile Wiegert had said he was willing to restructure and wanted to retire in Houston. I don't think McKinney is really worth keeping on our team at all, and I think we could have really used that $3.9 million added space from just cutting McKinney to go after other quality free agents or make up for an extra cap hit for cutting Gary Walker and/or Todd Wade. As I said before, I still haven't seen anything official about McKinney staying (if anyone has a link please post it), and I'm hoping that between the two of them they meant Wiegert restructured.

*Edit - I hadn't read the rest of the posts so now I see the link for McKinney.

I think Sherman is setting up competitions. He has three capable tackles and three capable guards, depending on where you place Pitts. (T = Wade, Wand, Pitts; G = Weary, McKinney, Weigert)

That's six players to five spots, and I still think they will pick up a new center in Free Agency. So my gut is telling me that we are going to have a high-priced backup team. I still think the line will look something like this come September:
Wand - Pitts - ? - Weary - Wade

Another possibility is

Wand - McKinney - ? - Weary - Pitts

That center is the lodestone.

Wand will not play LT over Pitts

Hey guys don't forget Maewae a 5 time pro bowl center from the Jets is available,so if we could land him,we could draft Eslinger in the 3rd rd and let him bulk up a couple of years before throwing him to the wolves.:yahoo:

Mawae was hurt most of last year and is 35 years old, doesn't make much sense for us to sign him.

Kaiser Toro
03-08-2006, 07:47 AM
per nunusguy

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3708424.html

Mr. White
03-08-2006, 07:49 AM
McKinney's on 610 right now. He talks like he's moving to OG and there will be a competition for Center. He thinks Drew Hodgdon will be the guy at Center.

Coach C.
03-08-2006, 07:50 AM
Mork it seems that McKinney has decided to restructure his deal and we will save a decent portion, but not the full 3.9M. Changes things some, but he is a decent LG that can excel at the ZB scheme. Weigert and Wade now have to be on the clock for restructuring. Weigert has said that he would like to restructure and retire a Texan, not sure how the Wade discussions will go. I do agree that Weigert was the better player last year, but if we "win the battles up front" we will be able to part ways with either of them.

thunderkyss
03-08-2006, 07:52 AM
You can't win every down........ You're going to get beat every now and then... there is a lot of talent on the otherside of the ball too. This being said, personally I don't know how bad our line is....... For the most part, they looked more confused, than inept.... or overpowered. I think our biggest problem on the line has been coaching, more so than personnel... They just didn't look ready, or like they knew what they were doing.

That's one of the reasons, I have been more open to the idea of picking OL talent in the late 1st, early 2nd. I do want to trade down, because it seems every year we have to play our talent out of position due to some injury... My idea of fixing the OLine, is getting a real starting Center...... Bently/Mawae... and a real LT.... I don't think we need D'Brick, but I wouldn't complain if we do end up getting him.

I thought we would be thinking along the lines of Pitts @ LT...... Drafting a true LT (This is where I wanted to use #33) that would get substantial playing time, rotating with Pitts...

So I was thinking

Pitts------Mckinney------Mawae------Weary-----Wand
Rookie----Brown---------Hogdon------Walter-----Rookie

Where our Rookies would Rotate Heavily, unless they straight up win the starting spots.... But with the money we are paying our boys, they really need to start. With McKinney restructuring, If we do want to start our #33 pick @ LT, we can move Pitts to Left Gaurd, Keep that Rotation going 3 man deep, in case we have to move Pitts back to LT...

Like I said, I appreciate a good OL, but I have no idea who is playing well, and who isn't.... Larry Allen made the ProBowl, and I didn't see that coming.... so... But it's been my impression, our problem has been coaching, and depth..... It is very possible, I am wayyyy wrong.

edo783
03-08-2006, 08:11 AM
You can't win every down........ You're going to get beat every now and then... there is a lot of talent on the otherside of the ball too. This being said, personally I don't know how bad our line is....... For the most part, they looked more confused, than inept.... or overpowered. I think our biggest problem on the line has been coaching, more so than personnel... They just didn't look ready, or like they knew what they were doing.

That's one of the reasons, I have been more open to the idea of picking OL talent in the late 1st, early 2nd. I do want to trade down, because it seems every year we have to play our talent out of position due to some injury... My idea of fixing the OLine, is getting a real starting Center...... Bently/Mawae... and a real LT.... I don't think we need D'Brick, but I wouldn't complain if we do end up getting him.

I thought we would be thinking along the lines of Pitts @ LT...... Drafting a true LT (This is where I wanted to use #33) that would get substantial playing time, rotating with Pitts...

So I was thinking

Pitts Mckinney Mawae Weary Wand
Rookie Brown Hogdon Walter Rookie

Where our Rookies would Rotate Heavily, unless they straight up win the starting spots.... But with the money we are paying our boys, they really need to start. With McKinney restructuring, If we do want to start our #33 pick @ LT, we can move Pitts to Left Gaurd, Keep that Rotation going 3 man deep, in case we have to move Pitts back to LT...

Like I said, I appreciate a good OL, but I have no idea who is playing well, and who isn't.... Larry Allen made the ProBowl, and I didn't see that coming.... so... But it's been my impression, our problem has been coaching, and depth..... It is very possible, I am wayyyy wrong.


Thunder, it sounds like your in the same boat as most of us, myself included. We ALL know the O-line has been bad, but how much is do to a lack of quality players and how much is due to crummy coaching. Eye, there lies the rub.

TexanBacker93
03-08-2006, 08:43 AM
If your a REAL fan of FOOTBALL, you know this is another crappy move by the Front Office.

Actually, its ridiculous how many of you think this is good news.

WAKE UP!

Being in Canada, I'm sure you see a lot of REAL FOOTBALL.

This is good for the team because rather than cost the team $4.7 million this year, McKinney costs the team $2.5 million. Cutting him would have resulted in paying him $850k, and the team would still have needed to get more bodies. He played guard at A&M under Mike Sherman. He started at LG for the Colts before coming here. He's a Guard. It was another instance of Capers and co. putting triangular pegs in oval holes. He's a better guard than what we have on the roster now and the team has enough other areas of concern that spending a little under a million of the cap to dump a guy that can play for the team is stupid. There are 2 free agent guards that would be upgrades and neither is coming to Houston.

BREAZE
03-08-2006, 08:54 AM
You have got to be kidding me…nobody on the O-line should be staying, especially this waste of debris...4yrs???

Aggie favoritism at its finest...

Runner
03-08-2006, 09:16 AM
Wand will not play LT over Pitts




That's exactly what Joe Pendry said! :)

nunusguy
03-08-2006, 09:20 AM
This is good for the team because rather than cost the team $4.7 million this year, McKinney costs the team $2.5 million. Cutting him would have resulted in paying him $850k, and the team would still have needed to get more bodies. He played guard at A&M under Mike Sherman. He started at LG for the Colts before coming here. He's a Guard. It was another instance of Capers and co. putting triangular pegs in oval holes. He's a better guard than what we have on the roster now and the team has enough other areas of concern that spending a little under a million of the cap to dump a guy that can play for the team is stupid. There are 2 free agent guards that would be upgrades and neither is coming to Houston.
Good comments Backer !

Vinny
03-08-2006, 09:28 AM
McKinney had his best games last year when he moved to Guard. We could sign a FA Center or we draft a young Center since I don't think they will simply roll into camp thinking Hodgdon is their clear man in the middle. It will be a plus to have a veteran ex-center at LG bringing our new young Center along as he learns the league.

bckey
03-08-2006, 09:31 AM
This bb cracks me up. You guys have dogged out McKinney (me included) for the last couple of seasons and now because Kubiak likes him and resigns him it's a great deal. Everybody is happy. I know he plays guard better than center but the fact is he has been a lousy olineman for the Texans. I hope he can get his career turned around under Kubiak but the fact is he has been pretty lousy up to this point.

thunderkyss
03-08-2006, 09:43 AM
This bb cracks me up. You guys have dogged out McKinney (me included) for the last couple of seasons and now because Kubiak likes him and resigns him it's a great deal. Everybody is happy. I know he plays guard better than center but the fact is he has been a lousy olineman for the Texans. I hope he can get his career turned around under Kubiak but the fact is he has been pretty lousy up to this point.


Put Pitts at center, & I'll dog him too. But D'Brick at Center, and he won't have many fans here. Play these same guys where they are good, and you'll get Kudos..... that's the way the worl works.

Texans Horror
03-08-2006, 09:44 AM
This bb cracks me up. You guys have dogged out McKinney (me included) for the last couple of seasons and now because Kubiak likes him and resigns him it's a great deal. Everybody is happy. I know he plays guard better than center but the fact is he has been a lousy olineman for the Texans. I hope he can get his career turned around under Kubiak but the fact is he has been pretty lousy up to this point.

I've never cared for McKinney. I see him backing up Weary/Wade/Pitts, depending on how the Texans go with that. With his restructured deal costing only 2.5 million, he is does not seem like an overly-priced veteran. I do think Sherman probably likes him and that he is meant to bring in leadership.

The key still lies in the center, and I'm not sure that throwing a near-rookie in as center is the best option. IMO, Center and LT are where you want solid veterans. Center seems a position where they will concentrate in FA.

I still like Wand at LT and think he will be there. He is a fast lineman and will work well under the new coaching system.

I know a lot of people want to see four or five new names at the line, but I think the Texans are going to let coaching fix the problems they had last year.

edo783
03-08-2006, 09:45 AM
This bb cracks me up. You guys have dogged out McKinney (me included) for the last couple of seasons and now because Kubiak likes him and resigns him it's a great deal. Everybody is happy. I know he plays guard better than center but the fact is he has been a lousy olineman for the Texans. I hope he can get his career turned around under Kubiak but the fact is he has been pretty lousy up to this point.

There is NO doubt he has been a lousy center, but he has been an above average LG. As long as he plays LG, I have no issue with this. If he plays center, then I have a lot of issues with it. Don't really care for the guy as I think he is full of himself, but I think he can help the team at LG.

Grid
03-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Ive been saying hes a guard, not a center.. and hes a much better guard than center..since LAST offseason. Im just glad that so many people here seem to agree.

Lucky
03-08-2006, 10:00 AM
This bb cracks me up. You guys have dogged out McKinney (me included) for the last couple of seasons and now because Kubiak likes him and resigns him it's a great deal. Everybody is happy...
You're right. McKinney has underachieved over the past 4 seasons. If he had been released, I wouldn't have shed a tear.

But, I'm giving Kubiak the benefit of the doubt that he can get production out of McKinney. He was a solid guard in Indy, so maybe there is hope. At least the Texans reduced that ridculous cap number McKinney was carrying.

Runner
03-08-2006, 10:01 AM
"Three-fifths of the Texans' offensive line is now set (below). The right guard and right tackle positions will be filled by some combination of Todd Wade, Zach Wiegert and Milford Brown.
• Center — Drew Hodgdon, whose rookie year ended early with an broken foot.

• Left guard — Steve McKinney, the former Texas A&M lineman who is moving from center.

• Left tackle — Chester Pitts, who has started each of the Texans' 64 games.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3708424.html
************************************************** ****
With the restructure for McKinney, maybe two-fifths of our OL is now set,
but three-fifths as McClain claims ? I don't think so. Even though Hodgdon looked good the short time he was in the lineup, he did have a season ending
injury and there has to be uncertainty surrounding his recovery and performance afterwards.


Anybody remember the article about Todd Wade during last training camp? I think it was in the Chronicle, but I can't find it. It contrasted his being "set" at right tackle with the only (supposed) competition for a tackle spot being between Wand and Riley. His year at right tackle didn't go so well - maybe there should have been competition.

At this point, I hope very few positions for the Texans are "set", and I doubt they are. Roster spots might be locked down, but certainly not the depth chart. We don't even know who all our players will be yet.

BREAZE
03-08-2006, 10:03 AM
There is NO doubt he has been a lousy center, but he has been an above average LG. As long as he plays LG, I have no issue with this. If he plays center, then I have a lot of issues with it. Don't really care for the guy as I think he is full of himself, but I think he can help the team at LG.

He is part of an O-line for the history books. Nobody on the O-line was above average...we can move them as much as we want to, but the fact remains...

Kaiser Toro
03-08-2006, 10:07 AM
He is part of an O-line for the history books. Nobody on the O-line was above average...

All indications are that he was above average playing his natural position with the Colts. It was not until FrankenPendry got a hold of him with his experimental blocking schemes that seem to fit a prototype for Offensive line twister (more so than an actual scheme) that put people in a position to fail.

bigTEXan8
03-08-2006, 10:10 AM
I think I missed this, but does anyone know the details about this new contract? I can't that I'm happy about this move, but at least is less of a cap hit, so the Texans have a little more cash to throw at FAs.

jerek
03-08-2006, 10:15 AM
You're right. McKinney has underachieved over the past 4 seasons. If he had been released, I wouldn't have shed a tear.

But, I'm giving Kubiak the benefit of the doubt that he can get production out of McKinney. He was a solid guard in Indy, so maybe there is hope. At least the Texans reduced that ridculous cap number McKinney was carrying.

I will just tag along and say I agree. Would like to have seen us cut him personally, but if McKinney is going to elevate his game, these would be the best conditions under which he could do it.

TexanAddict
03-08-2006, 10:16 AM
I would really like to see McKinney's cap hit over each of the four years of this new deal. Yeah, we saved some money this year but how will it break down over the next three. Let's face it he will not suddenly become a Pro Bowler during that stretch.

The problem I'm having is people passing judgement based on very limited playing time. I will agree that McKinney looked somewhat better when he was at guard, but he didn't spend enough time there for it to be declared that he is a much better guard than center. I know that he played guard at Indy, but that was over 4 yrs ago and perhaps him losing a step is part of the reason he has played so poorly of late. I also don't understand how some people have given the starting center spot to Hodgdon after just 3 games! I would say that in that time he looked decent but that was hardly enough time to solidify a starting spot. I'm not saying he couldn't win the spot, but a lot of people are just giving it to him based on almost nothing. I think too many people are ready to accept mediocrity.

beerlover
03-08-2006, 10:29 AM
At some point we have to accept that we can't have All-Pro players @ every position. McKinney is a true professional and agree'ed to rework his contract and retire here in Houston as a Texan. I think he should get alot more credit for this than I'm reading here on this board. We actually need a bunch more players just like him that are willing to sacrifice for the team, cut salary, play out of position when needed & support younger player development. :homer:

keyfro
03-08-2006, 10:33 AM
well guys if you read the article on espn about it you'll see that they think he has been the most productive part of our offensive line over the past 4 years...not sure i agree with that but i do know one thing...it's rare to see a rookie guard start and be successful in this league...i also know that now we might have the right coaches to make the zone blocking scheme work with these guys...i do believe we will add 3-4 o-line guys either in FA or in the draft...center and tackle are positions i would draft and guard is the position i would seek help via FA...although with this chris kuper kid in round 5 i would be pretty darn tempted to go after him in the draft

tulexan
03-08-2006, 10:36 AM
No more shuffling players around like last year. We need to pick a line and stick with it. OL's need to have cohesiveness and chemistry and picking the line each week by throwing darts does not really build that.

MightyTExan
03-08-2006, 10:53 AM
We should have all new players on the O-line if they are serious about it. Just about any other team with a new coach and the worst O-line in the history of the NFL would be expected to clean house and start fresh.

gtexan02
03-08-2006, 11:00 AM
here are the details of the deal. DId we get ripped or not? I cant tell?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2359340

BREAZE
03-08-2006, 11:18 AM
No more shuffling players around like last year. We need to pick a line and stick with it. OL's need to have cohesiveness and chemistry and picking the line each week by throwing darts does not really build that.

Well then lets extend all O-line contracts. If the point is that we need a veteran, then go get a better one in free agency. If we are reviewing film and basing a decision of SM from 4 yrs ago then extend Phillip Buchanon's contract while you're at it.

I have not doubted Kubiak yet, but this raises a brow...makes zero sense.

TexanFanInCC
03-08-2006, 11:22 AM
Good news. Hopefully this means he will move to Guard, where he can have some positvie impact on the Line. The question now would be, who is gonna be our starting center next season?

drew hogdon? i always here good stuff about him.

TexanAddict
03-08-2006, 11:30 AM
drew hogdon? i always here good stuff about him.

I cannot fathom how a kid that played in only three games his rookie season, and was not truly dominant in those games (played well but didn't blow anyone away), is just given the starting spot by most here and it doesn't seem to make anyone else nervous.:twocents:

Vinny
03-08-2006, 11:30 AM
BREAKING NEWS: The Houston Texans announce stunning new changes. They will give David Carr a large bonus keeping him the teams largest cap hit and will extend the contract of Steve McKinney. In other news the fans are happy and excited about the new changes.

Vinny
03-08-2006, 11:31 AM
I cannot fathom how a kid that played in only three games his rookie season, and was not truly dominant in those games (played well but didn't blow anyone away), is just given the starting spot by most here and it doesn't seem to make anyone else nervous.:twocents:
relax pards, nobody here has a spot to give away on the Texans line.

thunderkyss
03-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Realisticly, it doesn't make sense, that you would scrap the whole line, and start anew..... You'd definitely be rebuilding then.

I think our biggest issue, is QB, but I'm not willing to chuck him, and start afresh just yet. Overall we've got good talent on both sides of the ball, and I think we can win some football games. Jacksonville & Tennesee aren't power houses. We should have a good shot at sweeping them in 2006. ohter than last year, we've usually played the Colts well, and close we could easily split the series there. I think we have a tough schedule next year, so I don't see us going 10-6 or getting into the playoffs. But I do see us getting some respect, and finishing over .500.

The moves we are making now, seem reasonable, and sane to me. The Oline will never be finished, and to me, it looks like we are on the right road. Trying to do too much, too fast is a sure way to be like the Cardinals, the Lions, and the Tampa Bay Bucs(in the old uniforms).....

jerek
03-08-2006, 11:45 AM
No more shuffling players around like last year. We need to pick a line and stick with it. OL's need to have cohesiveness and chemistry and picking the line each week by throwing darts does not really build that.

See Exhibit A, Pittsburgh Steelers.

Runner
03-08-2006, 12:14 PM
well guys if you read the article on espn about it you'll see that they think he has been the most productive part of our offensive line over the past 4 years...

From the article:

Arguably the most consistent performer on what has inarguably been the NFL's most porous offensive line over the last four seasons

:challenge Most consistently what? Productive? Mediocre? Bad? Early to practice? On the radio?

jerek
03-08-2006, 12:55 PM
From the article:

Arguably the most consistent performer on what has inarguably been the NFL's most porous offensive line over the last four seasons

:challenge Most consistently what? Productive? Mediocre? Bad? Early to practice? On the radio?

The truth is I have not watched McKinney's play enough, broken down tape, etc. to meaningfully comment on his performance. In this case, I defer to the opinions of other football "experts" that I talk to, and in this case, I will also default to Kubiak's staff's judgement.

All I have to say is, guess he is here to stay, so we can only hope that our coaches' faith is well placed.

And as far as the O-line last year, I still stand by coaching/injuries as a big problem in that equation. Clearly, a guy like Victor Riley had no business playing for this team, let alone starting at T, but I think our O-line as individual players are a hell of a lot better than they produced for us. Hope Sherman can right the ship.

Runner
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
And as far as the O-line last year, I still stand by coaching/injuries as a big problem in that equation. Clearly, a guy like Victor Riley had no business playing for this team, let alone starting at T, but I think our O-line as individual players are a hell of a lot better than they produced for us. Hope Sherman can right the ship.

I too think many of them are better than they have been given a chance to show. I also willingly defer to the staff's judgement of McKinney, although I don't think he is in any way a lock to start or play every down. My comments were more about reading too much into this signing.

I quoted that line from the article because I thought it was humorous in that it said nothing about his performance. It said he was consistent. If you are vague enough you are never wrong, I guess.

Big B Texan Fan
03-08-2006, 01:07 PM
First Carr now McKinney. What's next? We bringing back Matt Stevens now that Coleman is gone. Wouldn't doubt it at this point.

Oh wait a minute, now I get it......he's an Aggie.:ok: I guess we'll be drafting Reggie McNeal too, make a trade for Dante Hall, and when Reeves finally gets on everyones nerves we'll bring in RC Slocum.

BREAZE
03-08-2006, 01:32 PM
First Carr now McKinney. What's next? We bringing back Matt Stevens now that Coleman is gone. Wouldn't doubt it at this point.

Oh wait a minute, now I get it......he's an Aggie.:ok: I guess we'll be drafting Reggie McNeal too, make a trade for Dante Hall, and when Reeves finally gets on everyones nerves we'll bring in RC Slocum.

Maybe start a bonfire too when the Titans come to town...

Texans Horror
03-08-2006, 01:37 PM
Just because McKinney has a contract does not mean he is starting on the line. I admit Sherman may have a soft spot for the guy, but I think S&M will have to prove his meddle and be a consistent pass/rush blocker.

IMO, Steve's hiring is similar to what is done many times in the NFL: hire a vet to compete for a spot/provide leadership and training to younger players. He will probably help the team about by competing for a guard position while helping to develop whoever the Texans pick to compete at Center. He will probably be #2/#3 guard/center on depth. Ideally, I see the center position looking like this in depth: Bentley, then McK, then Drew.

texan279
03-08-2006, 01:40 PM
from www.kffl.com

Texans | McKinney lands contract extension
Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:01:19 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the Houston Texans saved $2.2 million in salary cap space by signing OG Steve McKinney to a four-year, $9 million contract extension. The deal included a $2 million bonus. The Texans tore up the last year of the five-year contract McKinney signed when he left Indianapolis for Houston in 2002.


He was scheduled to count $4.7 million against the cap this season.

Kaiser Toro
03-08-2006, 01:43 PM
from www.kffl.com

Texans | McKinney lands contract extension
Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:01:19 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the Houston Texans saved $2.2 million in salary cap space by signing OG Steve McKinney to a four-year, $9 million contract extension. The deal included a $2 million bonus. The Texans tore up the last year of the five-year contract McKinney signed when he left Indianapolis for Houston in 2002.


He was scheduled to count $4.7 million against the cap this season.

Not sure how it scales out per year, but we will most likley be able to part ways at a cheap price if he does not live to Kubiak's exepctations in the coming years.

El Tejano
03-08-2006, 01:58 PM
Seth wants to see this team win. I think this was a good move on both his and the FO's part. I don't think anyone especially on the Oline has a secure job except for Andre Johnson and David Carr. That being said, we now have some kind of experience battling for the OG position. Can we upgrade, sure but you better make sure of what you have now just incase you put all your marbles on a FA *cough* Orlando Pace, Tony Bosseli*cough and they don't come through.

infantrycak
03-08-2006, 01:59 PM
Not sure how it scales out per year, but we will most likley be able to part ways at a cheap price if he does not live to Kubiak's exepctations in the coming years.

Well he was supposed to count $4.7 mil and they are saving $2.2 mil so he must be counting $2.5 mil on the cap. Let's hope that is $500k in salary and the full $2 mil in signing bonus (rather than $2 mil in salary and $500k in prorated signing bonus) and he won't have any potential dead money after this year.

bckey
03-08-2006, 02:00 PM
Not sure how it scales out per year, but we will most likley be able to part ways at a cheap price if he does not live to Kubiak's exepctations in the coming years.


If that is the case then I have no problem wih it. I'm just not going to act real excited about it. Bring in Bentley at center and our line will be instantly better, Mckinney starting or not.

thunderkyss
03-08-2006, 02:57 PM
Is it common to sign back up OGs for $2mil??

Chances are his bonus is spread out over 2005, 2006, and 2007. So that's $600,000... 2.5mil-600,000=1.9 million.....


I have no idea, but that sounds like alot for a guy you aren't expecting to start.

travfrancis
03-08-2006, 03:03 PM
he is going to start

infantrycak
03-08-2006, 03:11 PM
Chances are his bonus is spread out over 2005, 2006, and 2007.

Why would the bonus on a 4 year deal be prorated only to 3 years?

By the way, the Texans still have to account for $806k from McKinney's last contract so that is a big chunk of the $2.5 mil cap hit this year. Probably the deal is $500k in prorated new bonus, $800k in prorated old bonus, plus $1.2 mil in salary.

V Man
03-08-2006, 03:42 PM
You have got to be kidding me…nobody on the O-line should be staying, especially this waste of debris...4yrs???

Aggie favoritism at its finest...

I am suprised only one poster mentioned this. Aggies helping Aggies (just which way). Gary making sure Steve keeps his job or Steve helping Gary by creating more money to spend on FA's?


Maybe Gary will trade a 3rd round pick with maybe a 5th also to Miami for Steve's lil bro Seth and play him at center. That should make some poster happy, bringing another Texas boy home.

Just doing a little:stirpot:

texan279
03-08-2006, 03:44 PM
Since Bentley is probably going to the Eagles, yea KM is the very next best choice.

Only knock I have on Mawae is that he is 35 years old and coming off of the torn tricep injury.

aj.
03-08-2006, 04:51 PM
Let's hope that is $500k in salary and the full $2 mil in signing bonus .

His base can't be less than $670k. Apply the 30% rule on the difference between his total deal and his bonus and you could probably figure out the yearly bases or get pretty close.

thunderkyss
03-08-2006, 05:12 PM
Why would the bonus on a 4 year deal be prorated only to 3 years?

By the way, the Texans still have to account for $806k from McKinney's last contract so that is a big chunk of the $2.5 mil cap hit this year. Probably the deal is $500k in prorated new bonus, $800k in prorated old bonus, plus $1.2 mil in salary.


Because the CBA is in limbo right now.

infantrycak
03-08-2006, 05:39 PM
Because the CBA is in limbo right now.

Even in this limbo 4 year deals are permitted, including proration over that time period.

TexanBacker93
03-08-2006, 08:41 PM
A quick look would say his contract would have to be something like this:

1st year: $806,000 from previous contract, $500,000 prorated bonus, and $1,194,000 as a base salary.
2nd year: $500,000 prorated bonus, and $1,373,000 base salary.
3rd year: $500,000 prorated bonus, and $1,579,000 base salary.
4th year: $500,000 prorated bonus, and $1,975,000 base salary.

The numbers won't be exactly that, but it should be pretty similar. After next season the team would be able to cut him and save room. Even after this season it wouldn't hurt them too much, but even if he's on the bench he's better than some out there and the contract isn't bad at all. Since $800,000 is from the signing bonus remaining from the previous contract he pretty much signed a 4 year $8 million dollar contract. For a veteran guard that has played center that isn't bad at all. Are there better players out there? Yes. Is there a worse lineman on every team's roster? Yes. He's an average player, but when he's surrounded by below average talent it makes him look worse. When he's playing out of position it makes him look worse. Would I rather have Faneca or Hutchison? Of couse. Is that going to happen? No.

TheTim5125
03-08-2006, 09:05 PM
I don't know if it was said, and if it was i apologize. On the ESPN bottomline it reported that G McKinney got an extension. So.. we def moved Mckinney to guard?

bdiddy
03-08-2006, 09:30 PM
It looks like at least part of the Texans line is set for next year. The piece on the Texans homepage quotes McKinney as stating that he is moving to left guard and that he looks forward to working on his timing working next to Pitts. Thus, it seems almost presumed that Pitts and McKinney will make up the left side of the line. Additionally, John McClains article made it seem as though Hogdgon was penciled in at center. I think McClain may be mistaken, but still looks like our line will remain largely entact. I do like McKinney much more at guard.

Grid
03-08-2006, 10:18 PM
Pitts, Mckinney, Hodgdon

That has been the line ive been asking for all offseason. Now we need an RG and RT.. and a quality center to backup Hodgdon.

big homey
03-08-2006, 10:21 PM
It looks like at least part of the Texans line is set for next year. The piece on the Texans homepage quotes McKinney as stating that he is moving to left guard and that he looks forward to working on his timing working next to Pitts. Thus, it seems almost presumed that Pitts and McKinney will make up the left side of the line. Additionally, John McClains article made it seem as though Hogdgon was penciled in at center. I think McClain may be mistaken, but still looks like our line will remain largely entact. I do like McKinney much more at guard.
If this is true, then we can scratch out D'Brick from our chart.:( All signs point to Reggie Bush.

As long as we win, I don't really care.

Bubbajwp
03-08-2006, 10:23 PM
Pitts, Mckinney, Hodgdon

That has been the line ive been asking for all offseason. Now we need an RG and RT.. and a quality center to backup Hodgdon.
Im not to confident in Hodgdon yet. But as of right know he is the starter IMO. Also I was just wondering why nobody has been talking about L Bently lately.

Bubbajwp
03-08-2006, 10:29 PM
If this is true, then we can scratch out D'Brick from our chart.:( All signs point to Reggie Bush.

As long as we win, I don't really care.
I think we could easily fill most of our holes using FA and the draft without trading down for example.
Round 1 Reggie Bush
Round 2 Nick Mangold
Round 3 A Fasano, Byrd - or C Eslinger
Round 3 J Joseph, Demario Minter
Round 4 Ray Edwards

In FA all we would need is a LB, FS, DE, WR which shouldnt be to hard considering we are around 14 million under the cap.

MorKnolle
03-08-2006, 10:30 PM
Im not to confident in Hodgdon yet. But as of right know he is the starter IMO. Also I was just wondering why nobody has been talking about L Bently lately.

Bentley from what I heard is almost for sure going to the Eagles, and we can't do much to lure guys away from there if they are paying money out. I'm still not real sure why we'd resign McKinney, I think Wiegert is better and he's under contract this year, so he could be set at our RG too. I'm also not sold on Hodgdon being our guy at C. I would definitely like to see us get at least one interior OLineman (Mangold would be a great pick at #33 if he lasts that far, Chris Chester would be a nice pick at #97 or especially at #129 if he lasts that far) and one OT in this offseason (Eric Winston or Winston Justice would be great at #33 if either one somehow falls, which I don't see happening). Daryn Colledge would be a decent pick, although I'm not sure I like spending the #33 on him, but if he somehow falls to #65 (I don't see that happening) or if we trade down and add another high 2nd rounder in there then I wouldn't mind getting Colledge. Jonathan Scott at #65 (not sure he falls that far but that one could happen) would be a nice addition as well. Johnathan Joseph also won't fall to the 2nd round, hopefully he'll fall to #33 so we could get him there. If Justice, Winston, Mangold, and Leonard Pope aren't at #33 (I don't see any of them falling that far), then Johnathan Joseph would probably be my next choice there, assuming he even falls that far.

Grid
03-08-2006, 10:34 PM
Eh.. ill pencil in Hodg as the starter.. I just am not going to trust it. I want someone I can trust backing him up.. or starting ahead of him. I like what I saw of Hodgdon when he was playing, but im not ready to just throw him out there and say "the job is yours".. but im willing to give him the start to begin with.


btw.. RICHARD MARSHALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is who we need to get :). It has nothing to do with the line heh..but no one ever mentions him on their prospect lists.

Bubbajwp
03-08-2006, 10:34 PM
Bentley from what I heard is almost for sure going to the Eagles, and we can't do much to lure guys away from there if they are paying money out. I'm still not real sure why we'd resign McKinney, I think Wiegert is better and he's under contract this year, so he could be set at our RG too. I'm also not sold on Hodgdon being our guy at C. I would definitely like to see us get at least one interior OLineman (Mangold would be a great pick at #33 if he lasts that far, Chris Chester would be a nice pick at #97 or especially at #129 if he lasts that far) and one OT in this offseason (Eric Winston or Winston Justice would be great at #33 if either one somehow falls, which I don't see happening). Daryn Colledge would be a decent pick, although I'm not sure I like spending the #33 on him, but if he somehow falls to #65 (I don't see that happening) or if we trade down and add another high 2nd rounder in there then I wouldn't mind getting Colledge. Jonathan Scott at #65 (not sure he falls that far but that one could happen) would be a nice addition as well. Johnathan Joseph also won't fall to the 2nd round, hopefully he'll fall to #33 so we could get him there. If Justice, Winston, Mangold, and Leonard Pope aren't at #33 (I don't see any of them falling that far), then Johnathan Joseph would probably be my next choice there, assuming he even falls that far.
Makes me think we are not interested in Nick Mangold

Makes me think we are interested in Nick Mangold

Grid
03-08-2006, 10:38 PM
If we dont sign a good quality center in FA... then id say that Mangold or Eslinger are sure things for us in the draft. I dont see our coaching staff putting the Center position completely in Hodgdon's hands..not yet anyway.

im tired and ive had 4 tests this week..sorry if im flip flopping and not realizing it hehe.. id look back and check but im too lazy.

outofhnd
03-08-2006, 10:56 PM
Hard to say what we are doing at this point...

I think Hogdon showed real promise last year till the foot injury.

He is up in his stance very quickly, and was a definite upgrade over McKinney@ center

infantrycak
03-08-2006, 11:07 PM
I'm not dismissing Hodg as a possible solution at center, but JMO there was a scheme change which greatly assisted him in comparison to McKinney. When the OL had Riley--Pitts--McKinney, Pitts spent a great deal of time helping out Riley leaving McKinney on an island with respect to the left side. When the line moved to Pitts--McKinney--Hodg, Pitts was generally on an island (JMO but Pitts works much better when given a single assignment and asked to perform--kill Freeney vs. decide whether to help out the LT or C or pick up the blitzer) and McKinney spent most of his time assisting Hodg. McKinney and Hodg looked good, but they were mutually assisting in that effort. McKinney did look better at G but in an optimistic fashion maybe this is the kind of scheme/teamwork thing which the new coaching staff can bring out of the players--play to their strengths.

ArlingtonTexan
03-08-2006, 11:23 PM
I'm not dismissing Hodg as a possible solution at center, but JMO there was a scheme change which greatly assisted him in comparison to McKinney. When the OL had Riley--Pitts--McKinney, Pitts spent a great deal of time helping out Riley leaving McKinney on an island with respect to the left side. When the line moved to Pitts--McKinney--Hodg, Pitts was generally on an island (JMO but Pitts works much better when given a single assignment and asked to perform--kill Freeney vs. decide whether to help out the LT or C or pick up the blitzer) and McKinney spent most of his time assisting Hodg. McKinney and Hodg looked good, but they were mutually assisting in that effort. McKinney did look better at G but in an optimistic fashion maybe this is the kind of scheme/teamwork thing which the new coaching staff can bring out of the players--play to their strengths.

It appears that the current staff does not think that the raw talent along the OL sucks. the more I think about the notion that Capers and co had was to "put the best 5 Olmen on the field." The flaw seems to be that it put 2 or 3 guys at their 2nd or 3rd best position weakening the whole unit. May have better with keeping as many players at thier best position even if it means to play the say 7th best overall OLmen because the other four spots may only have one weak area to cover up.

Runner
03-08-2006, 11:27 PM
It looks like at least part of the Texans line is set for next year. The piece on the Texans homepage quotes McKinney as stating that he is moving to left guard and that he looks forward to working on his timing working next to Pitts. Thus, it seems almost presumed that Pitts and McKinney will make up the left side of the line. Additionally, John McClains article made it seem as though Hogdgon was penciled in at center. I think McClain may be mistaken, but still looks like our line will remain largely entact. I do like McKinney much more at guard.

McKinny backed off of his statements about being the LG a little bit on his interview on 790. He was in "guard or center" mode, stated Hodgdon would have to win the center job, etc. He also stated he didn't talk to Sherman a whole lot about specific responsibilities, more just about the general concepts of how the line would play. The running game would be based on zone blocking, but would also mix in counter plays, power plays, and other man on man stuff.

No matter what the Chronicle says, I think it is very unlikely that 3 or even 2 offensive line positions are set before free agency, the draft, and workouts. I'm not sure all of the linemen have even talked to the coaches face to face yet. They might have a preliminary depth chart, but take that for what it's worth. It would be based on a lot of film study and projections of what they think players can do within the system they will put in. I think things will be much more clear after coaches sessions have started and we have an idea of who is on the roster.

Im not to confident in Hodgdon yet. But as of right know he is the starter IMO. Also I was just wondering why nobody has been talking about L Bently lately.

I think a lot of people have given up on him since there have been reports he is going somewhere else. I still think he'd go a long way toward solidifying our line if we chose to go after a big ticket free agent and did get him. I wouldn't give up until he actually signs somewhere else. I'm sure if he was ever a target of our coaching staff our front office hasn't given up either.

Runner
03-08-2006, 11:36 PM
I'm not dismissing Hodg as a possible solution at center, but JMO there was a scheme change which greatly assisted him in comparison to McKinney. When the OL had Riley--Pitts--McKinney, Pitts spent a great deal of time helping out Riley leaving McKinney on an island with respect to the left side.
...

When the line moved to Pitts--McKinney--Hodg, Pitts was generally on an island (JMO but Pitts works much better when given a single assignment and asked to perform--kill Freeney vs. decide whether to help out the LT or C or pick up the blitzer) and McKinney spent most of his time assisting Hodg.

It is hard to say anything about the line from last year with any certainty given the offense they were reduced to by mid-season. That being said, I thought that Brown did a better job at helping out Pitts than Pitts did Riley.

For all of the people who state that "Pitts is a better tackle than guard" there must be a reason. If anything, I think it is because he was not a very good "o-line team player" from the guard position. I guess that is basically what you were saying with your parenthetical statement above.

bdiddy
03-08-2006, 11:39 PM
I agree that we will not know more until free agency and the draft. Although, I suspect that the Texans will not add more than one new starter via the draft and that at the present time the staff would prefer bringing in a veteran.

I would not be surprised to see Hogdgon get some time a right guard.

Runner
03-08-2006, 11:54 PM
I agree that we will not know more until free agency and the draft. Although, I suspect that the Texans will not add more than one new starter via the draft and that at the present time the staff would prefer bringing in a veteran.

I would not be surprised to see Hogdgon get some time a right guard.

I don't think we'll see more than one new face on the line either - maybe none. But depending on who that face is, he could certainly effect the mystical "3 set starters" if he is a proven vet at one of those positions.

I still think we'll see some surprises on the depth chart before, during and after coaches sessions, not to mention training camp. (Note the the Texans site says it won't update the public depth chart until just before training camp).

MorKnolle
03-09-2006, 07:39 AM
Hard to say what we are doing at this point...

I think Hogdon showed real promise last year till the foot injury.

He is up in his stance very quickly, and was a definite upgrade over McKinney@ center

I think Hodgdon was definitely an upgrade in pass blocking, but I had questions about his run blocking capabilities and his fire/mean streak. I don't have those questions about Nick Mangold, so I would definitely take Mangold over Hodgdon as our C.

nunusguy
03-09-2006, 08:03 AM
It appears that the current staff does not think that the raw talent along the OL sucks. the more I think about the notion that Capers and co had was to "put the best 5 Olmen on the field." The flaw seems to be that it put 2 or 3 guys at their 2nd or 3rd best position weakening the whole unit. May have better with keeping as many players at thier best position even if it means to play the say 7th best overall OLmen because the other four spots may only have one weak area to cover up.
Sorry Arlington, but I think its a waste of time trying to figure out what the
"method to the madness" was of Capers & Co re their management, decision
making process, etc. of the OL.
But your point about the new regime's assesment of the talent level of the
OL might be valid. At any rate, it will be very interesting to see who they try to pick in FA and in the Draft to improve the OL.
And most of all, I'm waiting to see what happens to one Seth Wand ? I think
he's now a RFA. Will other teams approach him, will we try to keep him and if
so what might his role be in the OL for this Fall: possible starter or just bench-warmer ?

Runner
03-09-2006, 08:18 AM
And most of all, I'm waiting to see what happens to one Seth Wand ? I think
he's now a RFA. Will other teams approach him, will we try to keep him and if
so what might his role be in the OL for this Fall: possible starter or just bench-warmer ?

He is somewhat the forgotten man in the news. I thought this quote from the Chronicle sidebar was incomplete without his name, not that I buy the three-fifths statement anyway:

Three-fifths of the Texans' offensive line is now set (below). The right guard and right tackle positions will be filled by some combination of Todd Wade, Zach Wiegert and Milford Brown.

I imagine he'll compete for a starting tackle position. I bet we won't see him working out at guard.

I'm assuming he gets the minimum tender - which means he'd cost a team a 3rd round pick. That might make him appealing to some other teams. He'd be better than a rookie 3rd round left tackle, given his physical skills and his experience in the league.

beerlover
03-09-2006, 08:18 AM
I think a lot of people have given up on Bentley since there have been reports he is going somewhere else. I still think he'd go a long way toward solidifying our line if we chose to go after a big ticket free agent and did get him. I wouldn't give up until he actually signs somewhere else. I'm sure if he was ever a target of our coaching staff our front office hasn't given up either.

for what its worth Ohio State offensive line coach Jim Bollman rates Nick Mangold on a par with former Buckeye All-American and 2001 Rimington Award winner LeCharles Bentley ... like Bentley can also play guard ... has tremendous power at the point of attack but is mobile enough to pull and lead the play ... is a devastating downfield blocker ...

Runner
03-09-2006, 08:20 AM
for what its worth Ohio State offensive line coach Jim Bollman rates Nick Mangold on a par with former Buckeye All-American and 2001 Rimington Award winner LeCharles Bentley ... like Bentley can also play guard ... has tremendous power at the point of attack but is mobile enough to pull and lead the play ... is a devastating downfield blocker ...

If we don't pick up Bentley as a free agent I'd like to see us draft Mangold with our 2nd round pick if he's there. We need help in the middle of the line.