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View Full Version : Can we agree to take one of these?


Eyeguy
03-06-2006, 12:34 PM
I am a supporter of trading down to obtain more picks. However, I am not willing to trade down so far as to not pick one of these players.

In order of avaliblity:

Bush RB
D'Brickshaw LT
Williams DE
V. Davis TE

I'm not willing to risk that any of these players are still on the board at #7

If we can't get one of these in a trade down stay where we are and take Bush.

TEXANS84
03-06-2006, 12:44 PM
Sure thing, although I'd have it as:

Bush
V. Davis
Williams
D'Brickshaw

Eyeguy
03-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Sure thing, although I'd have it as:

Bush
V. Davis
Williams
D'Brickshaw

Fair enough

El Tejano
03-06-2006, 12:49 PM
Who is Vernon Davis?

tulexan
03-06-2006, 12:52 PM
The best TE in the draft.

El Tejano
03-06-2006, 12:54 PM
I never heard of him. What school does he come from? Can he block and catch? Do yall have him rated better than Pope.

tulexan
03-06-2006, 12:56 PM
He is from Maryland.

He ran a 4.38 40 at the Combine and set almost all of the lifting records at Maryland. He can both block and catch.

Eyeguy
03-06-2006, 01:03 PM
From Sunday Chron.:

V. Davis TE Maryland

" No prospect put on a better show at the combine than Davis, who was ranked 1st at TE, a position that has more talent and depth than any time in the past decade.
Davis ran a 4.38 40 but also had a 42- inch verticle leap and a standing broad jump of10' 8".
How impressive was the broad jump? The 2nd and 3rd ranked TE's were tied at9' 10" (Pope and Lewis)"

Faster than all LB's most S and alot of CB. Great hands, can jump and BLOCK.

WR in TE body.

Coach C.
03-06-2006, 01:12 PM
My list

M. Williams DE
R. Bush RB/O-specialist
V. Davis TE
M. Huff CB/FS

These guys are pretty much my short list, and yeah I left Ferguson off of it, bottomline he is good, but Winston is just as good, but unfortunately they both will be gone in the top 20 so a second or third round T will suit me just fine as long as we can land a Mangold or Jonathan Joseph in the second to team with Mario Williams in the first.

El Tejano
03-06-2006, 01:30 PM
From Sunday Chron.:

V. Davis TE Maryland

" No propespest put on a better show at the combine than Davis, who was ranked 1st at TE, a position that has more talent and depth than any time in the past decade.
Davis ran a 4.38 40 but also had a 42- inch verticle leap and a standing broad jump of10' 8".
How impressive was the broad jump? The 2nd and 3rd ranked TE's were tied at9' 10" (Pope and Lewis)"

Faster than all LB's most S and alot of CB. Great hands, can jump and BLOCK.

WR in TE body.

So your convincing me. Do you have more about game stats or anything?

Dunta_23
03-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Id list them in order of need as:

Mario
D'Brick/Davis
Bush

want:

Bush/Williams
D'Brick
Davis

AtheGreat
03-06-2006, 01:36 PM
i like seeing my boy super mario up on top. he's been doing amazing at the comine and we'd have to be no farther down than 5th pick overall to land him. i think any of these guys yall have mentioned would help us out no doubt. we have so many holes to fill that almost any one of these guys would fill a crucial gap. Dare i say, it may be hard for Charlie to screw up this year.

TEXANS84
03-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Who is Vernon Davis?

He's going to be one of the best tight ends, ever. He broke every record (strength wise) at Maryland.

http://mfile.akamai.com/16410/wmv/mlbcs.download.akamai.com/16410/open/umd/2005/mfb/video/archive10/100605-vernon-davis-all-american.asx

Grid
03-06-2006, 03:38 PM
ive heard that his blocking skills are suspect. But he has the strength to be at least an "adequate" blocker... maybe he just needs the coaching.

To guarantee that we get one of those guys.. I wouldnt trade down any further than #5.

Outside of those 4 players..the only other guy who WILL go in the top 5 is Matt Lienart.

now.. Vince Young, Jay Cutler, and A.J. Hawk are all possibilities to go in the top 5-7.. so we could take a chance and trade down to #7-#8 and have a chance at those 4.. but I wouldnt put money on it.

The most likely player available to us at #7 would be Vernon Davis. Williams, Bush, and Ferguson will most like be gone in the top 5.

Texas_Thrill
03-06-2006, 03:59 PM
I've also heard is blocking skills are a bit SUSPECT but that can be coached.

He's a gamer. I saw a couple games from him. They couldn't cover the kid when they put all their effort into it.

The crazy thing is he never seems like he's moving that fast.

Wow, I didn't think anyone had NOT heard of this kid. They been talking about him since LAST year.

LORK 88
03-06-2006, 04:06 PM
ive heard that his blocking skills are suspect. But he has the strength to be at least an "adequate" blocker... maybe he just needs the coaching.

You are correct. I know im going to catch hell for this bc it isnt common knowledge, but the best run blocking is probably going to end up being Marcedes Lewis. Pope has the most size, Davis is the strongest, but Lewis is better at run blocking. The way I see it, Lewis is probably going to turn out to be the best traditional TE, Pope will be the most balanced, with Vernon Davis fitting the new athletic mold. He'll see more time in the slot than he will on the end of the O Line. He'll also put up the best stats because of it. As long as you use him right and dont expect much balance and incredible blocking, then you get what you see. But just incase anyone doubts my credibility or that I somewhat know what Im talking about, here are some draft sites that agree with me (and I created the TE profiles for the 3rd site).

http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Prof...nondavis.shtml
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...rnondavis.html
http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showpl...ernon%20Davis*
http://www.qisports.com/vernondavis2006.html
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/Profile...visprofile.htm

Mightymike
03-06-2006, 04:15 PM
I never heard of him. What school does he come from? Can he block and catch? Do yall have him rated better than Pope.

this guy is sick. go to the earlier prospect videos thread and there's a small taste

Eyeguy
03-06-2006, 06:01 PM
You are correct. I know im going to catch hell for this bc it isnt common knowledge, but the best run blocking is probably going to end up being Marcedes Lewis. Pope has the most size, Davis is the strongest, but Lewis is better at run blocking. The way I see it, Lewis is probably going to turn out to be the best traditional TE, Pope will be the most balanced, with Vernon Davis fitting the new athletic mold. He'll see more time in the slot than he will on the end of the O Line. He'll also put up the best stats because of it. As long as you use him right and dont expect much balance and incredible blocking, then you get what you see. But just incase anyone doubts my credibility or that I somewhat know what Im talking about, here are some draft sites that agree with me (and I created the TE profiles for the 3rd site).

http://www.nfldraftforecast.com/Prof...nondavis.shtml
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...rnondavis.html
http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showpl...ernon%20Davis*
http://www.qisports.com/vernondavis2006.html
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/Profile...visprofile.htm

Out of the top 3 TE you listed, which would fit the offense that Kubes will employ?

How about the kid from ND Fassanio?

Bubbajwp
03-06-2006, 06:10 PM
From Sunday Chron.:

V. Davis TE Maryland

" No propespest put on a better show at the combine than Davis, who was ranked 1st at TE, a position that has more talent and depth than any time in the past decade.
Davis ran a 4.38 40 but also had a 42- inch verticle leap and a standing broad jump of10' 8".
How impressive was the broad jump? The 2nd and 3rd ranked TE's were tied at9' 10" (Pope and Lewis)"

Faster than all LB's most S and alot of CB. Great hands, can jump and BLOCK.

WR in TE body.
I believe he benched 225 pound 32 times.
He is 6'3 263 a little small but makes up for it with strength and speed.

YoungTexanFan
03-06-2006, 07:20 PM
You are correct. I know im going to catch hell for this bc it isnt common knowledge, but the best run blocking is probably going to end up being Marcedes Lewis. Pope has the most size, Davis is the strongest, but Lewis is better at run blocking. The way I see it, Lewis is probably going to turn out to be the best traditional TE, Pope will be the most balanced, with Vernon Davis fitting the new athletic mold. He'll see more time in the slot than he will on the end of the O Line. He'll also put up the best stats because of it. As long as you use him right and dont expect much balance and incredible blocking, then you get what you see.

I agree. We need a conventional TE, that can both block AND catch. Lewis is the best overall TE available. Lewis will be a stud very soon, but Lewis is quite athletic also and can stretch the seam vertically.

My comparisons:

V. Davis - Gates/Shockey/TE from NE
Lewis - T. Gonzales
Pope - T. Heap/Bubba Franks
D. Thomas - Dallas Clark

samomin
03-06-2006, 07:23 PM
Do you guys think AJ Hawk is in the same league as the top guys mentioned? Haven't heard too much draft hoopla around him, wonder what's up.

Grid
03-06-2006, 07:26 PM
Hawk will go in the top 10.

LORK 88
03-06-2006, 07:47 PM
Out of the top 3 TE you listed, which would fit the offense that Kubes will employ?

How about the kid from ND Fassanio?

The good thing about Kubiak and his offense is that it requires a balanced TE. Luckily, most typical TEs fit the mold. From what I've seen of the offense that Kubiak will bring and based on how high/low the player is ranked, out of the top 3 I feel Marcedes Lewis would best fit the system. He's a great and very underrated run blocker, has great size (6'6" 261), is a good receiver, has the most upside, and could be obtained with our 2nd round pick. Davis has the most athleticism and is the best receiver, but Kubiak's emphasis on the running game, and Davis' top 10 grade arent worth it. Pope has the size, receiving ability, but carries a top 32 grade and isnt as great as a receiver as Lewis.

If we go TE in the lower rounds, I see alot of prospects that we could look at. Fasano is definitely an option, he's the best blocking TE in the draft but is still athletic and a good safety blanket. I also like Dom Byrd who is a great athlete and can really stretch the field, Tim Day who has amazing potential and great size, and the sleeper Tony Scheffler who's only downfall is the fact he went to a small school. Its a huge year for TEs in the draft so we better land one this year!!

MorKnolle
03-06-2006, 10:30 PM
1st Mario Williams
2nd Reggie Bush
3rd Vernon Davis
4th D'Brickashaw Ferguson

All of these will likely require a top 7 pick to make sure you get one of them. Bush could easily be gone in the top 3 depending on what teams pick up there, D'Brick likely won't get past the Titans (#3) and Jets (#4), Mario likely won't get past the Jets (#4) and Packers (#5), and Vernon Davis probably won't make it past the 49ers (#6) and Raiders (#7). I wouldn't trade down past #5, probably not even to #5. I would take the best deal I can from the Jets or Titans (if they decide to trade up, which I doubt) and take Mario.

beerlover
03-06-2006, 10:38 PM
1st Mario Williams
2nd Reggie Bush
3rd Vernon Davis
4th D'Brickashaw Ferguson

All of these will likely require a top 7 pick to make sure you get one of them. Bush could easily be gone in the top 3 depending on what teams pick up there, D'Brick likely won't get past the Titans (#3) and Jets (#4), Mario likely won't get past the Jets (#4) and Packers (#5), and Vernon Davis probably won't make it past the 49ers (#6) and Raiders (#7). I wouldn't trade down past #5, probably not even to #5. I would take the best deal I can from the Jets or Titans (if they decide to trade up, which I doubt) and take Mario.

Or trade with Green Bay? thats the 5th spot according to your rankings the Texans could get Vince Young (at a home town discount) plus maybe a 2nd this year & first next year. I would jump all over that like a hot bleach blonde :drool:

thunderkyss
03-06-2006, 10:43 PM
I'll agree to take these 4:

1st Mario Williams
2nd D'Brikashaw Ferguson
3rd A.J. Hawk
4th Vince Young/Jay Cutler

TexanBacker93
03-06-2006, 10:46 PM
My top 4

Mario Williams
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Vernon Davis
A.J. Hawk

While Bush and Young dominate the discussions, I think these other 4 fill holes that will help us improve faster.

Tha_Tinman
03-06-2006, 10:48 PM
The best TE in the draft.

He appears to be the best PLAYER in the draft. That dude is a beast.

And I'm on the Vince Young bandwagon!

For me ...itz

1. Vince Young
2. Vernon Davis
3. Reggie Bush
4. Mario Williams
5. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

I also agree that any trade down deal must include an opportunity at one of these guys.

Corrosion
03-06-2006, 10:55 PM
My top two ... as far as immediate impact on the team are Davis and Williams , just dont think either of them merit the #1 overall .... Problem is that the trade down options to the point in the draft where they would be value picks arent realistic (Jets, Titans, Packers). So either you reach for one of them at a need position or take one of the possible game breakers at the #1 spot.:confused:

MorKnolle
03-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Or trade with Green Bay? thats the 5th spot according to your rankings the Texans could get Vince Young (at a home town discount) plus maybe a 2nd this year & first next year. I would jump all over that like a hot bleach blonde :drool:

I still don't know if I'd take Vince at #5, definitely not over Mario/Reggie since one of them would be there (Vernon Davis and Michael Huff will be there too, and I'd take either of them over Vince).

My top two ... as far as immediate impact on the team are Davis and Williams , just dont think either of them merit the #1 overall .... Problem is that the trade down options to the point in the draft where they would be value picks arent realistic (Jets, Titans, Packers). So either you reach for one of them at a need position or take one of the possible game breakers at the #1 spot.:confused:

My order of who I think would best impact our team:
1st Mario Williams
2nd Reggie Bush
3rd Vernon Davis
4th Michael Huff
5th D'Brickashaw Ferguson

I would be willing to take Mario at #1, I seriously think he's that good (Peppers was a serious consideration at #1 four years ago, and I think Mario is as good as Peppers, not quite as fast but stronger and a little bigger). That said, I'm pretty sure we can trade down to #4 and still get him, so I'd be willing to trade down and take just about anything from the Jets, I'd happily take #35 and next year's 2nd rounder from them for swapping 1st round picks. We still get my top guy and we get two other nice picks as well, and I think we could swing a deal like that, although with the Jets keeping Pennington it looks less likely that they'll trade unless they really like Bush. The Packers would be another trade option if they like Bush enough, but the Jets could easily take Mario at #4 if John Abraham gets traded.

infantrycak
03-06-2006, 11:21 PM
My top two ... as far as immediate impact on the team are Davis and Williams , just dont think either of them merit the #1 overall ....

Not singling you out, but I have heard similar sentiments expressed several times and don't quite understand it--maybe you can explain. Mario Williams is widely reported as grading out as well as or better than Julius Peppers. A great many folks would now say Peppers was the best person in the 2002 draft and should have been our #1 pick. So why is Williams not worth the #1 pick? Why not pull a Cowboys?--use the perception that Williams is not a #1 pick and pre-negotiate a lower salary and take him there anyway if that is what helps the team.

edal
03-06-2006, 11:26 PM
Don't you guys want to protect Carr with Ferguson! That should be the obvious need. I know this has been discussed on other threads but just for more opinions, what would it take extra with a trade for the #4 pick with the Jets. The problem with a top 5 pick is there are those few players that you would love to have that would be an impact, but, you can only take one!

stevo3883
03-06-2006, 11:29 PM
Not singling you out, but I have heard similar sentiments expressed several times and don't quite understand it--maybe you can explain. Mario Williams is widely reported as grading out as well as or better than Julius Peppers. A great many folks would now say Peppers was the best person in the 2002 draft and should have been our #1 pick. So why is Williams not worth the #1 pick? Why not pull a Cowboys?--use the perception that Williams is not a #1 pick and pre-negotiate a lower salary and take him there anyway if that is what helps the team.


probably because pepper's competition in 02 was Carr & Harrington...

Williams is competiting with Bush, Young, Leinart- all three wouldve been #1 in '02 no question imo.

the top of this draft is so sick... Leinart is the most polished qb since peyton. Young has the most potential since Vick. Bush has moves comparable to barry...

Corrosion
03-07-2006, 02:44 AM
Not singling you out, but I have heard similar sentiments expressed several times and don't quite understand it--maybe you can explain. Mario Williams is widely reported as grading out as well as or better than Julius Peppers. A great many folks would now say Peppers was the best person in the 2002 draft and should have been our #1 pick. So why is Williams not worth the #1 pick? Why not pull a Cowboys?--use the perception that Williams is not a #1 pick and pre-negotiate a lower salary and take him there anyway if that is what helps the team.


When I think of actually spending the #1 overall pick instead of trading it , I am looking for simply The Best player in the draft reguardless of position , a Special player , a player that impacts his team without question immediately.

This year I think there are four players who fit the above description . Those would be (in No Specific Order) Vince Young , Reggie Bush , Matt Leinart and Vernon Davis. Of those ..... Three of them would likely be #1 overall If they came out in seperate seasons based on what they have done in college . (accept Davis , teams just dont use the #1 on a TE.)

The first three play positions that are easy to spend the #1 overall pick on , QB and RB ..... But none play a need position for this team . Add to that the longterm commitments to David Carr and Dominic Davis .... Picking one of those players would be quite difficult .The fourth is a TE .... Teams just dont take TE's #1 overall .... The highest a TE has ever been taken was 2nd overall .... back in the 1930's I believe (may be off on the time line)

As for Williams , I think he's a solid talent but not quite the game changer the others have the potential to be. Thats why I wouldnt take him #1 overall . And I'm not sold that he's the best player in the draft at his position . To explain this further ..... He didnt even have the best work-outs at the combine for his position .... His teammate from N.C. ST. Manny Lawson was far superior and his value skyrocketed into the first round as a result. Although I think Williams is a better fit for the scheme the Texans will operate from next season.


As for your idea of pulling a Cowboy and pre-negotiating a contract with him with the pre-conception that he's not worthy of the #1 is in itself a waste of the pick ..... They have to get value for the pick .... Either pick the best player or trade the pick and at least get some value for it. As it stands now trading the pick is going to be difficult .

If Casserly cant orchestrate a trade down ..... Im begining to think the best option for the Texans to do is take Leinart number one and hold him for ransom to the Aints , Jets and Titans .... One of those three teams would bite on a trade .... Like the Chargers did with Eli Manning in 04 .... The Texans could get their target player and value for the pick .

slamdunc
03-07-2006, 06:05 AM
Out of the top 3 TE you listed, which would fit the offense that Kubes will employ?

How about the kid from ND Fassanio?
the best for Kubes theme will probably Putzier via free agency....would be hard for that staff and their history to pass on him

infantrycak
03-07-2006, 06:47 AM
When I think of actually spending the #1 overall pick instead of trading it , I am looking for simply The Best player in the draft reguardless of position , a Special player , a player that impacts his team without question immediately.

This year I think there are four players who fit the above description . Those would be (in No Specific Order) Vince Young , Reggie Bush , Matt Leinart and Vernon Davis.

Given your definition, it seems to me Mario is far likelier to impact the team he goes to than anyone except maybe Bush, and that remains a maybe. Young certainly doesn't not fit into the draft and play for an upgrade mold. Even Leinart will take time. Bush is a question mark IMO in that teams are going to have to draft him and experiment to see what he can do, what he can adapt to and what they need to design for him. Mario should come in with a head of steam like Merriman last year.

IMO Lawson isn't competition for Mario. While both are listed at DE, Lawson will most likely be playing OLB in the NFL and in any event, the role of a 295 lb DE and a 240 lb one are totally different.

thunderkyss
03-07-2006, 07:02 AM
Given your definition, it seems to me Mario is far likelier to impact the team he goes to than anyone except maybe Bush, and that remains a maybe. Young certainly doesn't not fit into the draft and play for an upgrade mold. Even Leinart will take time. Bush is a question mark IMO in that teams are going to have to draft him and experiment to see what he can do, what he can adapt to and what they need to design for him. Mario should come in with a head of steam like Merriman last year.



Yes and no......... Bush & Mario are probably going to give you the biggest impact, but Lienart & Young will change you team the most in the long haul (if they live up to their potential).... Both Young and Matt have the ability to one day put the Clevland Browns into the superbowl race for a long long time. Not by themselves, don't twist what I'm saying. But as long as the Browns, Texans, Cardinals, 49rs, Colts, Patriots, Buccaneers, don't have that strong leader from the QB position, they'll be run of the mill at best.

Maddict5
03-07-2006, 07:16 AM
Id list them in order of need as:

Mario
D'Brick/Davis
Bush



D'brick
Mario
Davis

TheOgre
03-07-2006, 08:15 AM
Order of need:
D'Brick
Mario
Davis

This team needs a DE, TE, and an OT in this off-season. We need to come out with a stud in at least one of these three positions in the draft or FA.

infantrycak
03-07-2006, 08:19 AM
Yes and no......... Bush & Mario are probably going to give you the biggest impact, but Lienart & Young will change you team the most in the long haul (if they live up to their potential)....

Which is the opposite of his definition--certain immediate impact.

thunderkyss
03-07-2006, 08:26 AM
Which is the opposite of his definition--certain immediate impact.

touche'

HeartofHouston
03-07-2006, 08:37 AM
Reggie Bush
Mario Williams
Vernon Davis