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View Full Version : Texans' Dream Draft might include Titans Trade


nunusguy
03-03-2006, 07:26 PM
Pre-Wonderlic rumors included reports that the Titans would covet VY on
Draft Day. Now the Titans know they could trade down and still get VY if they
wanted him, but perhaps they want a more reliable, more conventional NFL pocket passer type like Matt Leinert to replace Steve McNair. And they know the Saints want exactly the same thing. The only way to solve their problem
is to pick ahead of the Saints.
We could trade with the Titans and recieve their 1st and 2nd for our #1,
and still pick Reggie since the Saints have recently signed a new long term contract with Duece McAllister, a truly elite NFL RB, and are very much interested in drafting a promishing college QB in this years draft.
And we end up with two 2nd round picks and two 3rd round picks for the first day and select Reggie with out #3 pick. Oh there is some risk that the Titans pick Reggie instead of Leinert, but not likely. In the event that happened, we could use our #3 on our choice of OT Ferguson or DE Williams.

Carr Bombed
03-03-2006, 07:39 PM
I don't see it happening, only Cass. is dumb enough to trade a bunch of picks to a divisional rival.

big homey
03-03-2006, 09:09 PM
They could just wait/trade down and take Cutler, the hometown kid.

thunderkyss
03-03-2006, 10:28 PM
....... since the Saints have recently signed a new long term contract with Duece McAllister, a truly elite NFL RB,
Duece McAllister, a truly elite NFL RB.
First three years.
Games... 47 Games Started...35 ATT.. 692 Yards..3120 AVg...4.9 long...76 TD... 22 20+yards....... 27 FDs..... 138


Domanick Davis........ just some guy.
First three years.
Games.... 40 Games Started...36 Att...770 Yards...3195 Avg...4.1 long...51 TD... 23 20+yards.......13 FDs.........142



I still don't see why we need a running back, why we can't pass on Reggie Bush, but they don't.

AustinJB
03-04-2006, 04:17 AM
Duece McAllister, a truly elite NFL RB.
First three years.
Games... 47 Games Started...35 ATT.. 692 Yards..3120 AVg...4.9 long...76 TD... 22 20+yards....... 27 FDs..... 138


Domanick Davis........ just some guy.
First three years.
Games.... 40 Games Started...36 Att...770 Yards...3195 Avg...4.1 long...51 TD... 23 20+yards.......13 FDs.........142



I still don't see why we need a running back, why we can't pass on Reggie Bush, but they don't.

I'm right there w/ you...DD is a more than capable RB. We don't need Bush.

As most know by this point, my preference is to get VY b/c I just don't think Carr is the QB that is going to lead your team to the SB....BUT that looks unlikely at this point. With that being said, Carr CAN win games, but he definately needs a good supporting cast around him. I don't think Bush is the answer to that.

What we need to do is take a dynamic playmaker on defense in the 1st round (i.e. Mario, Huff, Hawk in a trade down scenario,) and the best Olineman on the board in the 2nd round.:twocents:

nunusguy
03-04-2006, 07:44 AM
As most know by this point, my preference is to get VY b/c I just don't think Carr is the QB that is going to lead your team to the SB....BUT that looks unlikely at this point. With that being said, Carr CAN win games, but he definately needs a good supporting cast around him. I don't think Bush is the answer to that.

If the Texans were going to draft a QB and if we left sentiment and geography out of it, the unanimous (or nearly unanimous choice), would be
Matt Leinert. Check it out in any city in the country, that's the prevailing
wisdom except for here in Houston where VY grew up. And forget about the
Wonderlic score, I don't care if VY scored a 46 instead of a 6, he would stillbe
a project and would be riding the rails for a couple years. Leinert has been the
starting QB for a pro-style offense for 3 years and led it to 2 championships in those 3 years. He's ready to start in the NFL this September! But all of this
makes no difference anyway, because the Texans organization has already decided to retain Carr, and he's going to be the QB here for several more years.
Regarding trading down: good OTs, TEs, DEs, etc. come into the NFL every
year, but Reggie Bush is rated as the greatest playmaker to come into the
league atleast since LaDainian Tomlinson arrived 5 years ago. Some say he's
the greatest since Marshall Falk, and thats over 10 years ago. And we are the one and only team who can draft him if we choose ! Out of 32 teams,
he is ours to take. Is there risk in drafting Reggie ? Of course! But Bob McNair didn't become what he is today, rising from his very modest background as a South Carolina native, without taking some big risks.
He made a fortune negotiating with and selling his business to Lay, Skilling,
and others at Enron when that company was a corporate titan and feared
on a global basis. This is not a timid man.
And ole man McNair may be a mild mannered, laid back sort outwardly, but you know he's got an ego as big as Reliant stadium. Reggie Bush puts his Texans on prime time TV this fall against the Cowboys, and maybe also in another MNF/SNF game or two.

awtysst
03-04-2006, 08:09 AM
If the Texans were going to draft a QB and if we left sentiment and geography out of it, the unanimous (or nearly unanimous choice), would be
Matt Leinert. Check it out in any city in the country, that's the prevailing
wisdom except for here in Houston where VY grew up. And forget about the
Wonderlic score, I don't care if VY scored a 46 instead of a 6, he would stillbe
a project and would be riding the rails for a couple years. Leinert has been the
starting QB for a pro-style offense for 3 years and led it to 2 championships in those 3 years. He's ready to start in the NFL this September! But all of this
makes no difference anyway, because the Texans organization has already decided to retain Carr, and he's going to be the QB here for several more years.
Regarding trading down: good OTs, TEs, DEs, etc. come into the NFL every
year, but Reggie Bush is rated as the greatest playmaker to come into the
league atleast since LaDainian Tomlinson arrived 5 years ago. Some say he's
the greatest since Marshall Falk, and thats over 10 years ago. And we are the one and only team who can draft him if we choose ! Out of 32 teams,
he is ours to take. Is there risk in drafting Reggie ? Of course! But Bob McNair didn't become what he is today, rising from his very modest background as a South Carolina native, without taking some big risks.
He made a fortune negotiating with and selling his business to Lay, Skilling,
and others at Enron when that company was a corporate titan and feared
on a global basis. This is not a timid man.
And ole man McNair may be a mild mannered, laid back sort outwardly, but you know he's got an ego as big as Reliant stadium. Reggie Bush puts his Texans on prime time TV this fall against the Cowboys, and maybe also in another MNF/SNF game or two.

Can one man turn around an organization? Lets say that Bush becomes as good as Marshall Faulk..no lets say Barry Sanders. How did the Lions do with Sanders running for them? He did great but the team did not. They made the playoffs 4 times, but each time(except in 91, but there they got killed by the redskins) they went out in the first round. Essentially the defense let Barry get his yards and contained everyone else. Football is a TEAM sport and no one man can make a difference on his own.

Thats why we have to try to trade down. Picking up Super Mario or D Brick will help this team. Plus the fact that we will add pieces to help put our puzzle together. We do not need superstars on this team, we just need solid players playing thier positions well. The Evil England Patriots have shown us you need solid players who play together not superstars to win consistently.

Dunta_23
03-04-2006, 08:19 AM
I understand the point of view that Reggie Bush alone wont cure this team, BUT, we will still have 3 more draft picks in the next 65. Thats possibly 3 starters depending on position out of your first 4 selections...That is pretty good if you ask me. The question may be will Reggie Bush PLUS 3 more top 65 players do better than ____________ and 4 more top 65 players?

Personally I REALLY like Mario Williams, D'Brick, and Reggie Bush so I will probably be a happy guy come draft day.

awtysst
03-04-2006, 08:30 AM
I understand the point of view that Reggie Bush alone wont cure this team, BUT, we will still have 3 more draft picks in the next 65. Thats possibly 3 starters depending on position out of your first 4 selections...That is pretty good if you ask me. The question may be will Reggie Bush PLUS 3 more top 65 players do better than ____________ and 4 more top 65 players?

Personally I REALLY like Mario Williams, D'Brick, and Reggie Bush so I will probably be a happy guy come draft day.

Ok, but...If we trade down, we have an oppertunity for a guaranteed starter, plus Mario or Dbrick or Davis, plus potentially 4 picks and somethign next year.

So, with reggie its 1+ maybe 3
Without its 1st rounder+starter+ 4 and something next year.

thunderkyss
03-04-2006, 08:55 AM
If the Texans were going to draft a QB and if we left sentiment and geography out of it, the unanimous (or nearly unanimous choice), would be
Matt Leinert. Check it out in any city in the country, that's the prevailing
wisdom except for here in Houston where VY grew up. And forget about the
Wonderlic score, I don't care if VY scored a 46 instead of a 6, he would stillbe
a project and would be riding the rails for a couple years. Leinert has been the
starting QB for a pro-style offense for 3 years and led it to 2 championships in those 3 years. He's ready to start in the NFL this September! But all of this
makes no difference anyway, because the Texans organization has already decided to retain Carr, and he's going to be the QB here for several more years.


First of all, everybod who is rating Lienart, are using the same paper facts they used to highly rank Carr, Leaf, Smith, and every other first round bust. The thing that made peyton Manning special, wasn't something you can type up in a report........ it's a feeling you get when you watch him play....... You know that guy is going to change the expectations, the winning attitude, the face of your team..... John Elway had it too, coming out of college... In Cases like Peyton, Elway, McNabb.... etc..... The Stats are only half the story. Leaf & Couch, and those like them, the stats is everything you're going to get. That is my take on Matt, and Lienart.... the stats, that's all their is to them. Depending on which team they go to, will determine if they'll be succesful or not....... guys like Elway, Peyton, McNabb, & IMO Vince Young, they will make whatever team they go to successful. That's just the way I see it.

chuckm
03-04-2006, 09:39 AM
First of all, everybod who is rating Lienart, are using the same paper facts they used to highly rank Carr, Leaf, Smith, and every other first round bust. The thing that made peyton Manning special, wasn't something you can type up in a report........ it's a feeling you get when you watch him play.......



emotion and homerism are better methods of rating prospects?

nunusguy
03-04-2006, 09:57 AM
I understand the point of view that Reggie Bush alone wont cure this team, BUT, we will still have 3 more draft picks in the next 65. Thats possibly 3 starters depending on position out of your first 4 selections...That is pretty good if you ask me.
Our division rival, the Jacksonville Jaguars, drafted a LT in the second round in last years Draft and he started for them this past fall and we all know the Jags went to the playoffs this past year. Since we were drafting ahead of the Jags, we could have had that player with our 2nd pick, but we used it on the PB trade. And I won't get into the PB trade here and now.
The point I'm making is starting players at key positions like LOT are there for the taking every year, but a team has to draft wisely. Our 3rd round picks are the first 2 picks of the third round. That makes them virtually second round picks, so we're talking 3 second round picks. But we have to use them wisely. Hopefully with the added input of Kubiak, Sherman, & Reeves we're going to have a better collective Draft IQ this year.
Are the "experts" badly mistaken about Reggie's potential in the NFL ? Its
possible, but its also possible they are right on the money. And he could be
this franchises "marquee" player for today, for tomorrow , and forever. This is
how you build the history, the tradition, the culture of an NFL franchise.
And let your thoughts wander for awhile. Can you just imagine the possibilities with an offense featuring Andre and Reggie ? Honestly, can one contain his excitement with the thought of those 2 on the field together in Texans' uniforms ?

bckey
03-04-2006, 10:06 AM
I can contain it. Trade down.

Runner
03-04-2006, 10:08 AM
First of all, everybod who is rating Lienart, are using the same paper facts they used to highly rank Carr, Leaf, Smith, and every other first round bust.

I hear you, but it's also the system that picked all the busts and stars in all of the rounds. It is what they have. It is a pretty weird coincidence that most experts, teams, and fans rate Leinart higher than Young except in Texas.

The minority can be right though - I'm still standing by my statement that Wand is our starting LT next year. I'm pretty sure that puts me in the minority.

For the record I want Mario Williams with our first pick, trade down or not. That puts me in the minority again!

Lucky
03-04-2006, 11:44 AM
Tennessee probably has as much, or more, information on the top 3 QBs as any team in the league. Of course, Norm Chow was Matt Leinart's OC during USC's national championship seasons. Steve McNair as been extolling the virtues of Vince Young since he went to McNair's football camp as a teenager. And if the proximity of Vanderbilt's campus wasn't enough for the Titans, they were able to get a week of hands on evaluation of Jay Cutler at the Senior Bowl.

No, I don't see the Titans panicking on draft day and coughing up a load of draft picks to the Texans. I do believe they'll take a QB (unless Bush somehow slides) because Tennessee is moving 2nd year tackle Michael Roos to the left side. But, I think the Titans realize better than anyone that they'll get a good QB prospect at #3. Whoever that might be.

texasguy346
03-04-2006, 11:52 AM
For the record I want Mario Williams with our first pick, trade down or not. That puts me in the minority again!

I'm definately in the Williams camp too. The minority gets a little bigger.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 12:00 PM
Tennessee probably has as much, or more, information on the top 3 QBs as any team in the league. Of course, Norm Chow was Matt Leinart's OC during USC's national championship seasons. Steve McNair as been extolling the virtues of Vince Young since he went to McNair's football camp as a teenager. And if the proximity of Vanderbilt's campus wasn't enough for the Titans, they were able to get a week of hands on evaluation of Jay Cutler.

No, I don't see the Titans panicking on draft day and coughing up a load of draft picks to the Texans. I do believe they'll take a QB (unless Bush somehow slides) because Tennessee is moving 2nd year tackle Michael Roos to the left side. But, I think the Titans realize better than anyone that they'll get a good QB prospect at #3. Whoever that might be.

Agreed. The Titans are sitting pretty in the three hole. This division will continue to get tougher and with one of those QB's going to the Titans it is more imperative than ever that we lay the ground work for building a defense through the draft now and that begins with Mario Williams.

YoungTexanFan
03-04-2006, 12:07 PM
I just pray that the Titans take Cutler. He is a bust waiting to happen and is one of the most overhyped players in recent memory. Even our weak secondary will own him. He just isn't very smart with his passes.

beerlover
03-04-2006, 12:17 PM
I just pray that the Titans take Cutler. He is a bust waiting to happen and is one of the most overhyped players in recent memory. Even our weak secondary will own him. He just isn't very smart with his passes.

you know they said the same things about Brett Farve :cool:

YoungTexanFan
03-04-2006, 12:25 PM
you know they said the same things about Brett Farve :cool:

Yes.

They are similar but Farve just had it in him to win. Cutler does not show that same mentality. He comes off as an over-hyped act to me. He does have a strong arm, and that gun-slinger mentality, but they are in a different class as far as I'm concerned.

Vinny
03-04-2006, 12:26 PM
Pre-Wonderlic rumors included reports that the Titans would covet VY on
Draft Day. Now the Titans know they could trade down and still get VY if they
wanted him, The Wonderlic isn't that important and VY won't slide. If McNabb, McNair and Marino can get by on 14-16 Wonder Licks...so can VY. If you want Young you will have to pick him at your slot...someone will trade up for him if he starts to slide.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 12:30 PM
The wonderlic hurt VY more in his leverage for a large signing bonus than his draft position.

Vinny
03-04-2006, 12:31 PM
The wonderlic hurt VY more in his leverage for a large signing bonus than his draft position. can you explain how?

SESupergenius
03-04-2006, 12:37 PM
I would think that Matt Lienart would be more of a fit with the Titans the Young, being that Chow worked with Lienart extensively while he was with USC and may have a great influence in whom the Titans are selecting. New Orleans also seems a better fit for Young in that they are starting over on a new page and can buld their offense around Youngs abilities. The Texans offensive has a philosophy in Denver's style, that doesn't fit well with Yong either.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 12:40 PM
can you explain how?

Bonus, accelerators, options and incentives based on performance is where the agent can provide value to the contract above and beyond the base. This is where the real negotiations lie between team and player. A team is less likely to give these out if there are concerns of mischief and other dings such as a low test or past injury.

His leverage was hurt in my opinion, but can be correctable by him ditching his current agent.

nunusguy
03-04-2006, 12:50 PM
Tennessee probably has as much, or more, information on the top 3 QBs as any team in the league. Of course, Norm Chow was Matt Leinart's OC during USC's national championship seasons. Steve McNair as been extolling the virtues of Vince Young since he went to McNair's football camp as a teenager. And if the proximity of Vanderbilt's campus wasn't enough for the Titans, they were able to get a week of hands on evaluation of Jay Cutler at the Senior Bowl.

QBs, especially at the top of the this years Draft, aren't a commodity, but rather each one is a unique entity with unique skills. Leinert and VY for example are of course very, very different from each other and I don't think the Titans or any team would be attracted to both players. If the Titans are interested in Leinert and really want him, they'd probably need to get ahead of NO, who reportly wants Leinert. If its VY or the Vandy guy, they can sit tight. Then again, its possible that they aren't even interested in taking one
one of this years QBs.

real
03-04-2006, 12:58 PM
Duece McAllister, a truly elite NFL RB.
First three years.
Games... 47 Games Started...35 ATT.. 692 Yards..3120 AVg...4.9 long...76 TD... 22 20+yards....... 27 FDs..... 138


Domanick Davis........ just some guy.
First three years.
Games.... 40 Games Started...36 Att...770 Yards...3195 Avg...4.1 long...51 TD... 23 20+yards.......13 FDs.........142



I still don't see why we need a running back, why we can't pass on Reggie Bush, but they don't.

Am I missing something or are duece's numbers way better than davis'

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 12:59 PM
Am I missing something or are duece's numbers way better than davis'

Outside of the 20+ yard runs and avg, they are neck and neck.

real
03-04-2006, 01:06 PM
Outside of the 20+ yard runs and avg, they are neck and neck.

No...They aren't...look deeper into the stats

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 01:13 PM
No...They aren't...look deeper into the stats

DD has more TD's and First downs in less games played. Please provide the deeper detail that I am missing for the comparision of the elite back in McCallister to run of the mill DD.

real
03-04-2006, 01:30 PM
DD has more TD's and First downs in less games played. Please provide the deeper detail that I am missing for the comparision of the elite back in McCallister to run of the mill DD.

Duece...
Games Started...35 ATT.. 692 Yards..3120 AVg...4.9 long...76 TD... 22 20+yards....... 27 FDs..... 138

Ya Boy...
Games Started...36 Att...770 Yards...3195 Avg...4.1 long[/B[B]]...51 TD... 23 20+yards.......13 FDs.........142

1) DD(ya boy) has 68 more carries with only 75 more yards...about equal?? No
2) The average speaks for itself...about equal???No
3) You pointed out that he had less games played...I'll look at the games started within the time frame...which has DD up by one
4) Now to your TD's and first downs...I don't care much for these stats because that strictly depends on situation and there are so many factors that can determine how many FD's and TD's a running back will get...ie...Jerome Bettis

The stats that I think matter most for a running back are Att,Avg and yardsme those stats equal production and since thats my definition, Deuce was alot more productive than your boy

El Tejano
03-04-2006, 01:32 PM
Duece played more games than DD. DD hurt more than Duece?

real
03-04-2006, 01:36 PM
Another good point, but I left that out because Deuce isn't exactly a brick house, but a good point none the less...

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 01:39 PM
Duece...
Games Started...35 ATT.. 692 Yards..3120 AVg...4.9 long...76 TD... 22 20+yards....... 27 FDs..... 138

Ya Boy...
Games Started...36 Att...770 Yards...3195 Avg...4.1 long[/B[B]]...51 TD... 23 20+yards.......13 FDs.........142

1) DD(ya boy) has 68 more carries with only 75 more yards...about equal?? No
2) The average speaks for itself...about equal???No
3) You pointed out that he had less games played...I'll look at the games started within the time frame...which has DD up by one
4) Now to your TD's and first downs...I don't care much for these stats because that strictly depends on situation and there are so many factors that can determine how many FD's and TD's a running back will get...ie...Jerome Bettis

The stats that I think matter most for a running back are Att,Avg and yardsme those stats equal production and since thats my definition, Deuce was alot more productive than your boy

Not a very convincing arguement for Deuce being an elite RB when comparing to DD's stats. Moreover, you throw in receiving and the edge by a little goes to DD.

DD is not my boy. The wife and I decided a long time ago that we would not have kids.

Vinny
03-04-2006, 01:42 PM
I'll take a healthy Deuce over a healthy Davis any day of the week, especially on Sundays. I don't need a statline...I use my eyeballs.

real
03-04-2006, 01:44 PM
Not a very convincing arguement for Deuce being an elite RB when comparing to DD's stats. Moreover, you throw in receiving and the edge by a little goes to DD.

DD is not my boy. The wife and I decided a long time ago that we would not have kids.

Not once did I type that Deuce is an elite running back...You can go back and check...I said that they weren't equal and That Deuce's stats were better...The stats that were presented were in deuce's favor... I never even said I'd rather have Deuce than DD...You formulated that in you head... All I was commenting on were the stats that were presented...The end

Vinny
03-04-2006, 01:45 PM
Not once did I type that Deuce is an elite running back...
I'll say it then... Deuce is an elite RB.

real
03-04-2006, 01:45 PM
I'll take a healthy Deuce over a healthy Davis any day of the week, especially on Sundays. I don't need a statline...I use my eyeballs.

I agree...

Lucky
03-04-2006, 05:44 PM
...Leinert and VY for example are of course very, very different from each other and I don't think the Titans or any team would be attracted to both players. If the Titans are interested in Leinert and really want him, they'd probably need to get ahead of NO, who reportly wants Leinert. If its VY or the Vandy guy, they can sit tight. Then again, its possible that they aren't even interested in taking one
one of this years QBs.
I don't think the Titans, or even most teams, require a QB to be cut out of a specific mold. I think Leinart would be ready to play sooner, so that would be an advantage he has over Young & Cutler. But since Tennessee still has 2 QBs that can play, that may not be a concern.

Titans GM Floyd Reese has never been the type of GM to fall in love with a player and trade up in a panic. The Jags tried to pull the same threat in '95 over McNair (trade up or we'll take Steve), but Reese didn't take the bait. He's been around the block, he knows that his team needs the draft choices and can't afford to burn them in trades (Reese has never moved up in the 1st round). I just think the Titans will take the highest rated QB on their board and move on to the next round.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 08:39 PM
Not once did I type that Deuce is an elite running back...You can go back and check...I said that they weren't equal and That Deuce's stats were better...The stats that were presented were in deuce's favor... I never even said I'd rather have Deuce than DD...You formulated that in you head... All I was commenting on were the stats that were presented...The end

Emotions always get the best of people. If you read the flow of the thread you will see that I was commenting on a post that said Deuce was an elite back and then another post displayed stats over the first three years for both Deuce and DD. The numbers are not that far apart, that is what is being debated. Since you decided to go away from how the debate was framed you are now put out because I was only replying within that frame. If you go back you will clearly see that I never said you thought Deuce was an elite back. Moreover, you took it personal and started going on the offensive by calling DD my boy.

Pot-Kettle party of two, your table is ready.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2006, 08:40 PM
I'll say it then... Deuce is an elite RB.

Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. ;)

thunderkyss
03-04-2006, 11:41 PM
emotion and homerism are better methods of rating prospects?

Get off it........ I explained exactly why I'll take Young over Matt..... In all my posts on the subject, never have I even mentioned(considered) the fact that Vince is from Houston....... That means nothing to me. Right now, I'm saying take Vince, if we are going to use the top pick. If Kubes & Co. ain't feeling him after they sit down, and interview him, I understand.....

Homerism, is you who'd be all over Harrington's jock if he were playing in Houston, and ragging on Carr if he were in Detroit.

Anybody who picks the BPA simply based only on Paper facts, doesn't really know what they are doing..... there is a lot more than paper facts to players. The player has to fit the team, the teams situation, the scheme (offensively/defensively)........

If you're going to build a zone blocking OLine with smaller personell, You'd better have a mobile QB who can think while he's running towards the sideline. Picking Matt Lienart is not very smart, if him starting is not a possibility come early September. We sign David Carr to a three year deal, it's better to let him think the job is his for at least next season. He gets all the snaps in practice.

You think Lienart is the best QB in the draft, give me three reasons why he would be better than Carr...


I hear you, but it's also the system that picked all the busts and stars in all of the rounds. It is what they have. It is a pretty weird coincidence that most experts, teams, and fans rate Leinart higher than Young except in Texas.

Nobody is saying Lienart has the upside Vince has........ Vince is off the chart. If you need a QB to start next year, Lienart is your man...... but you better be pretty solid all 'round, especially at protecting your Qb. We will be better next year, but Matt won't be the last piece of our puzzle. Not too long ago, the highest rated running back in the draft was a fella named Ricky Williams.... but he was not the first running back picked in that draft......... I think that worked out pretty well for the Colts.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Duece McAllister, a truly elite NFL RB.
First three years.
Games... 47 Games Started...35 ATT.. 692 Yards..3120 AVg...4.9 long...76 TD... 22 20+yards....... 27 FDs..... 138
Domanick Davis........ just some guy.
First three years.
Games.... 40 Games Started...36 Att...770 Yards...3195 Avg...4.1 long...51 TD... 23 20+yards.......13 FDs.........142Am I missing something or are duece's numbers way better than davis'

You'll have to define way better. Both started only 35/36 games in their first three years(3x16=48, so they both had injuries).... DD carried the ball 770 times versus McAllisters 692, yet they played the same number of games. if anything, this would point to DD being just as, if not more durable than Duece. In his first three years, Duece ran for 3120 yards(I wouldn't say this is way better than 3195) they both average 4 ypc( less than a yard cannot be considered way better) Duece does have a longer longest run than DD, and he breaks 20 yards/carry more frequently than DD, but DD has more first downs...... which is all you need out of your running game, especially considering they both have the same number of TDs..... As long as he is a threat to get the first down, teams will account for him.

I'll challenge anyone who thinks Duece is an elite back, and DD is just another back... In 2004, Duece ran for only 1074 yards in 14 games..... & you should consider his QB has avg over 3500 yards, and rated over 80 every season he played, plus he has always been on the field with 1000+ yard recievers. In 2005, he missed 11 games, 2 in 2004, if you couldn't do the math. 1 in 2002, and 12 in 2001.

If anybody is missing that one piece to their game, it's N.O. & it's not their QB.

CITY CAT
03-05-2006, 12:31 AM
I agree that DD is a great back, but what is wrong with having 2. USC had 2 good RBs and still opened up the passing game. Also Bush isn't very durable(he needed help from White at USC), so drafting RB doesn't mean that DD won't be getting as many touches on the ball.

AustinJB
03-05-2006, 01:20 AM
I agree that DD is a great back, but what is wrong with having 2. USC had 2 good RBs and still opened up the passing game. Also Bush isn't very durable(he needed help from White at USC), so drafting RB doesn't mean that DD won't be getting as many touches on the ball.

The point is, there is nothing wrong w/ this scenario if you're a team that is on the rise w/ not many holes to fill and the luxury to pick up an extra back and potential "gamebreaker." This is not the case.

Our team was WAAAAY too many holes to use our #1 (or 1st round pending a trade down) on a position that is arguably one of our strongest already IMO. Use that pick to solidify one of our very weak positions (i.e. DE, OT, OG, C, FS, TE, MLB, and IMO QB.)

thunderkyss
03-05-2006, 09:40 AM
I agree that DD is a great back, but what is wrong with having 2. USC had 2 good RBs and still opened up the passing game. Also Bush isn't very durable(he needed help from White at USC), so drafting RB doesn't mean that DD won't be getting as many touches on the ball.

This is not the kind of thing you want to be saying about your #1 overall pick.... the Value is not there.

dirty steve
03-05-2006, 11:19 AM
This is not the kind of thing you want to be saying about your #1 overall pick.... the Value is not there.

what about Mack Brown dumbing-down the offense for VY and letting him do whatever he wanted? don't you think that helped him? is THAT what you want with your number 1 pick?

TreWardTxn
03-05-2006, 12:20 PM
I would think that Matt Lienart would be more of a fit with the Titans the Young, being that Chow worked with Lienart extensively while he was with USC and may have a great influence in whom the Titans are selecting. New Orleans also seems a better fit for Young in that they are starting over on a new page and can buld their offense around Youngs abilities. The Texans offensive has a philosophy in Denver's style, that doesn't fit well with Yong either.

First of all, nobody has seen what the Kubiak version of Shanahan's West Coast offense is going to look like yet, so there's no way to say that it couldn't "fit" VY well. Any O-coordinator worth his salt should be able to engineer an offense around his abilities. Further, I don't see how a Denver Broncos offense wouldn't fit Young well; bootlegs? rollouts? These sound like the perfect situations for a QB whose mobility is his X-factor, and throws just as well on the run as from the pocket. If anything, this Broncos type of offense is one of the best-suited for Young in the NFL. Carr is lucky that he's got a few quicks and good speed, or the decision to keep him around probably would have been a bit more difficult...

TreWardTxn
03-05-2006, 12:46 PM
what about Mack Brown dumbing-down the offense for VY and letting him do whatever he wanted? don't you think that helped him? is THAT what you want with your number 1 pick?

I do not think it is fair to confuse consolidate and tailor with "dumbing-down." I saw Young go out and take snaps with 3-4-5 receivers split out, that's multiple reads, and multiple decisions to make, and Young showed great improvement in making those decisions this past year. A simplified offense to me would be running out of the pro-set and having only two wideouts, making reads much more simplistic. Who is to say that the Mack Brown system wasn't 'unnecessarily convulted'? How did Mack's 'smart' offense work out for Simms at the college level? Not so good... So, do I want a guy whose talent is so great that he has the ability to make coaches realize the flaws in their own approach/gameplanning, thereby helping to make the team better once corrected? Yeah, I want that guy... (You spin it your way, I'll spin it mine)

As for the DD discussion. I think it has been clarified that Bush is not pegged as 25/game carry tailback like Davis and McAlister are. What he brings to the table is the ability to rearrange a defense anytime he is on the field. 12-15 carries, 5-7 catches, 2-3 punt returns, a total of about 25 touches per game, any of which could be HOUSED. Does that make him worthy of the #1 pick, I don't know, but I don't think any team that already has one back (not named LT or Shaun) would pass on him because they are 'set' at running back. He is more (supposedly) than just a running back...

run-david-run
03-05-2006, 01:29 PM
I'll take a healthy Deuce over a healthy Davis any day of the week, especially on Sundays. I don't need a statline...I use my eyeballs.
No one is saying DD is better then Deuce, just that the perception of DD being an average back is wrong because he has put up numbers comparable to those deemed elite. For instance, in the 7-9 season, he had as many yards from scrimage as LT. This does not mean he is as good as LT, but it does mean he is pretty damn good.

thunderkyss
03-05-2006, 01:36 PM
what about Mack Brown dumbing-down the offense for VY and letting him do whatever he wanted? don't you think that helped him? is THAT what you want with your number 1 pick?

I've professed my love for Vince Young on several occasions. as such, I cannot see this as a minus.

1: it was Vince Youngs idea to change the O... if it were forced on him(i.e. Texans 1 step drop for Carr) then I would say, hey, they dumbed down the offense for him.

2: I like to think Vince's ideas actually helped Texas' passing game. As mentoned before, Texas' previous pocket passers weren't lighting up the stats... Texas' history is built on it's running game. Texas has always put out fine NFL running backs(with one/two head cases in there every now and again).


3: Texas had a problem winning the big games.......... that's not true anymore.

Lucky
03-05-2006, 04:20 PM
1: it was Vince Youngs idea to change the O...
So do you think it would be reasonable for Vince to show up for work and tell his new NFL team, "Yo, this is how we need to run our offense."?

Come on, Young will have to learn a new offense just like almost any other QB who has entered the league. What Young knows about the NFL could be fit in a jock strap. The good life in Austin is over. It's time to buckle down and learn how to be a NFL QB. Good luck with that.

P.S. out to City Cat...Reggie Bush never missed a college game due to injury. How much more durable should he be? And for those who think DD is a 25 carry a game back...he's not. Davis was overused by the previous coaching staff, and that is why he has had nagging injuries over his short career.

thunderkyss
03-05-2006, 04:40 PM
So do you think it would be reasonable for Vince to show up for work and tell his new NFL team, "Yo, this is how we need to run our offense."?

Come on, Young will have to learn a new offense just like almost any other QB who has entered the league. What Young knows about the NFL could be fit in a jock strap. The good life in Austin is over. It's time to buckle down and learn how to be a NFL QB. Good luck with that.

P.S. out to City Cat...Reggie Bush never missed a college game due to injury. How much more durable should he be? And for those who think DD is a 25 carry a game back...he's not. Davis was overused by the previous coaching staff, and that is why he has had nagging injuries over his short career.

Ricky Williams never sustained an injury in 4 college seasons of carrying the load. Yet, his first three years were dismal.

I have no doubt Vince will have to learn a new system in the NFL. At the same time, I expect NFL coaches to listen to their QBs, and use their input, to make their offense successfull. When a coach says, "We're going to get rid of the ball quicker, what do you think about a one step drop??", I expect the QB to say things like......"yeah, that's one way to do it, but we could try adding a few more audible & hot routes, or maybe let me start in the shotgun, a little more often. That way, if the line breaks down, I'll have a couple more seconds to make a decision"

Besides, I said that in reply to the offense being dumbed down for Vince.