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View Full Version : Frightened in FA market, again?


Nighthawk
03-02-2006, 11:45 PM
Here's what I worry about: we need players, position players, and I don't want to wait a year while Kubiak tries to coach up the guys we have. We have always been slow boys in the FA market. What I wonder is if we're going to fire off and get two or three key players in FA, or are we going to be the usual weak sister and come in late and low and pick up a couple of reaches, might be's, once were's, and so on? Denver apparently thought enough of Abraham to grab him (if the rumors are true) but we weren't going to touch him? Isn't that kind of typical of us in the Capers/Casserly era?

Does it have to happen again?

Jerry
03-02-2006, 11:55 PM
The reason we can't get the top guys is simply the fact that they don't want to come here. They want to win, so for use to sign them we need to throw excessive amounts of money at them. We even had to do that for players like Wade and Greenwood (throwing big money at average players in that case). We will likely only be able to get maybe on "key" player and maybe another starter in addition to several reserves/part-time players.

Corrosion
03-03-2006, 12:01 AM
I dont think this is the season for the Texans to make a big splash in the FA market . The main reason being there are some many holes to fill on the roster that its going to take more than one off-season to fill them . That being said , I'd wait until the team is a player or two away then go after some big time FA names .... Until such time its better to develop some players in-house. This may take 2-3 more seasons but in the end it will make for more long term success .... its more cap friendly.

TexanSam
03-03-2006, 12:08 AM
Here's what I worry about: we need players, position players, and I don't want to wait a year while Kubiak tries to coach up the guys we have. We have always been slow boys in the FA market. What I wonder is if we're going to fire off and get two or three key players in FA, or are we going to be the usual weak sister and come in late and low and pick up a couple of reaches, might be's, once were's, and so on? Denver apparently thought enough of Abraham to grab him (if the rumors are true) but we weren't going to touch him? Isn't that kind of typical of us in the Capers/Casserly era?

Does it have to happen again?

I don't think we have to get one of the top players in FA, but I would like some good, quality players. I would love to have David Givens as a 2nd WR next to Andre Johnson. An offensive lineman would be nice. Ty Law or Lawyer Milloy would look nice in blue and red also, but I think their asking price might be to high.

Vinny
03-03-2006, 12:11 AM
We already signed our first big $ FA....David Carr.:coolb:

throwANDREtheBALL
03-03-2006, 12:32 AM
its hard to get excited for that news.


especially, when there were cheaper and better options at QB in the FA market.


If you think I'm wrong, quote me on it.....even 5 years from now Drew Brees will be a better QB than David Carr.


Don't get me wrong, Carr is probably going to come around, but, even then, he's not worth that kind of money. I don't think he'll ever be more than a Jake Plummer type QB. And he definitely needs a change of scenery. I'm not sure how many more sack records he wants to set, but at this rate, he'll break them all.


"Go on Davey-Boy, you get those records"

infantrycak
03-03-2006, 12:36 AM
JMO, but the "go to a winner" FA lure is vastly overstated. FA's go where the $'s are in the majority of cases. Plaxico Burress could have resigned with the 15-1 Steelers but hit the market for big dollars in NY. Lamont Jordan went from a playoff Jets to tomb dwelling Raiders. Marcus Pollard went from Indy to Detroit. The biggest reason the Texans won't sign FA's quickly is the uncertainty of the CBA. It is going to be tough for anyone to get a deal done for a premier player until a CBA gets done--some deals will get done, but probably not as fast a clip.

bdiddy
03-03-2006, 08:01 AM
You win long term through the draft not free agency. I don't think the Texans have failed to try in free agency, however, they have vastly overpaid for the value received to date. I think we will focus on the draft. In free agency, the only big names to look at are Bentley, Runyan, or Lepsis (if he does not rework his deal as expected). I doubt we make a real serious run at any of these three, but maybe. Otherwise we will probably sign a mediocre TE, DE, and possibly MLB. The draft is where we are going to rebuild this team.

Wharton
03-03-2006, 08:32 AM
IMHO, top Free Agents cost too much, as do high draft picks. Not all FA, just the really saught after ones. Its kinda like the stock market when it gets really hot and everybody is on a bull run. People get crazy and buy anything just because they think "I gotta have it". I've been in real estate a long time and there is one truth I have found and that is there is always another deal right around the corner so don't panic. Just wait a little bit, the market will correct itself and you can pay a reasonable price for assets.

This free agent market is starting to get interesting. From the look of the recent cuts, allot of very talented players are coming on the market.

TexanBacker93
03-03-2006, 08:34 AM
It looks like Lepsis has reworked his deal in Denver. With Hutchison getting Tagged Bentley is the only premier lineman available. There are enough teams that want him the Texans would have to overpay to get him. He'd be a great addition, but the team can't afford to use up the entire cap room on one player. I thought I saw on ESPN that the Texans will have about $6 million to spend. I'm not sure if that was already taking into consideration the rookie pool or not.

Runner
03-03-2006, 08:43 AM
It looks like Lepsis has reworked his deal in Denver. With Hutchison getting Tagged Bentley is the only premier lineman available. There are enough teams that want him the Texans would have to overpay to get him. He'd be a great addition, but the team can't afford to use up the entire cap room on one player. I thought I saw on ESPN that the Texans will have about $6 million to spend. I'm not sure if that was already taking into consideration the rookie pool or not.

In my opinion, the addition of Bentley would go most of the way to fixing our o-line problems. Therefore he is worth more to us, so offering him more than other teams isn't necessarily overpaying in my view. Add that to the fact he's a proven Pro-Bowler, and I'd be willing to pay more than other teams for him.

I think we can afford to, and should, make one big splash in freee agency. He might be the guy.

Kaiser Toro
03-03-2006, 08:45 AM
Bentley is likely to sign with the Eagles

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/14003995.htm

TexanBacker93
03-03-2006, 08:53 AM
In my opinion, the addition of Bentley would go most of the way to fixing our o-line problems. Therefore he is worth more to us, so offering him more than other teams isn't necessarily overpaying in my view. Add that to the fact he's a proven Pro-Bowler, and I'd be willing to pay more than other teams for him.

I think we can afford to, and should, make one big splash in freee agency. He might be the guy.


When he's the only FA lineman stud available, everyone will have to overpay him. The Texans would have to do even more so. While he would be a great addition, the team also needs a pass rushing DE and a 2nd corner as well. They can't put every egg in one basket. If the CBA gets done and an additional $10 million is added to the cap that might change things.

Runner
03-03-2006, 09:00 AM
When he's the only FA lineman stud available, everyone will have to overpay him. The Texans would have to do even more so. While he would be a great addition, the team also needs a pass rushing DE and a 2nd corner as well. They can't put every egg in one basket. If the CBA gets done and an additional $10 million is added to the cap that might change things.

In my overall plan, I would use the first pick on Mario Williams. Then we've addressed two glaring weaknesses with our one big free agent sigining and our top draft pick. We've addressed the trenches. The rest of our holes would be filled this year by drafting and much lower priced free agents. With the Texans, even low priced free agents can upgrade some positions.

As far as putting all the eggs in one basket, I'd only do this with a Bentley type player because he is proven to be elite, as opposed, for example, a Wade who was proven to be pretty good at Miami.

I think after fixing these two big needs fixing others after the 2006 season becomes easier and everything builds on a more solid foundation.


Bentley is likely to sign with the Eagles

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/14003995.htm

Of course, no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

jerek
03-03-2006, 10:16 AM
Agree with what some have said regarding the winning allure in FA - many of these players play for money, pure and simple. Or they go to a team where they can be the #1 instead of the #2 or #3. Sure there are other factors, and sure there are players who are more concerned with aspects other than the dollar, but as far as our past in the FA goes, I would blame our talent evaluators/negotiations, etc. for failure to bring in the best guys and make them a real offer.

As far as this year, I don't expect us to do much. So far the pool of positions we need to fill is pretty thin, and I'm not sure the money will be worth it in many of these cases. The CBA's future being in doubt, this will make it even harder to navigate.

Will be interesting to see, and plenty of time left, but I do not think we will make any big moves this time around.

Dr. Toro
03-03-2006, 10:38 AM
JMO, but the "go to a winner" FA lure is vastly overstated. FA's go where the $'s are in the majority of cases. Plaxico Burress could have resigned with the 15-1 Steelers but hit the market for big dollars in NY. Lamont Jordan went from a playoff Jets to tomb dwelling Raiders. Marcus Pollard went from Indy to Detroit. The biggest reason the Texans won't sign FA's quickly is the uncertainty of the CBA. It is going to be tough for anyone to get a deal done for a premier player until a CBA gets done--some deals will get done, but probably not as fast a clip.

I agree completely. Sure, we won't get anybody to take a discount to come to a winner, but our franchise is an attractive one. This year is the test for our ability to land quality veterans. Before we were sticking to a blueprint, trying to remain conservative and build this thing from the ground up. With a big, warm weather city, brand new facilities, first class owner, and football-centric city, Houston has a lot to offer.

Corrosion
03-03-2006, 10:42 AM
I agree completely. Sure, we won't get anybody to take a discount to come to a winner, but our franchise is an attractive one. This year is the test for our ability to land quality veterans. Before we were sticking to a blueprint, trying to remain conservative and build this thing from the ground up. With a big, warm weather city, brand new facilities, first class owner, and football-centric city, Houston has a lot to offer.


The one thing everyone forgets ....Everyone accept R.Bush that is .... No state income tax . Less money to the government and more money in the players pocket is about as attractive as it gets .

infantrycak
03-03-2006, 10:42 AM
I agree completely. Sure, we won't get anybody to take a discount to come to a winner, but our franchise is an attractive one. This year is the test for our ability to land quality veterans. Before we were sticking to a blueprint, trying to remain conservative and build this thing from the ground up. With a big, warm weather city, brand new facilities, first class owner, and football-centric city, Houston has a lot to offer.

The one qualifier I would add to that post is winning probably becomes more and more important the older players get (and the more lucrative their prior contracts have been). The 2nd contract is the big pay day for most players. Guys like Ty Law who have tons of money already and are only looking to play a few more years are probably much pickier about not going to a "loser."

Texas
03-03-2006, 11:12 AM
I think we should pull 1 or 2 out of the free agency that are big names but we need to be careful doing so because like everyone has said. They want winning teams!

Texans86
03-03-2006, 11:22 AM
Since when is winning important in football? I thought it was all about money.

TexanBacker93
03-03-2006, 12:36 PM
Since when is winning important in football? I thought it was all about money.

It's a double standard when it comes to pro sports. If a player goes to a team that isn't good for a lot of money the fans of every other team claims they are a money loving, greedy SOB. If they go to a team that is a piece or 2 away from winning for less money the fans claim that their championship wouldn't be worth anything. Look at the negative reaction when Malone and Payton went to LA for next to nothing. It didn't work out, but fans won't let players have it either way.

Vinny
03-03-2006, 12:41 PM
Since when is winning important in football? I thought it was all about money.Welcome to the Texans. Obviously you are an Astros fan. Don't worry, Drayton only owns one team in town.

Nighthawk
03-03-2006, 01:02 PM
I dont think this is the season for the Texans to make a big splash in the FA market . The main reason being there are some many holes to fill on the roster that its going to take more than one off-season to fill them . That being said , I'd wait until the team is a player or two away then go after some big time FA names .... Until such time its better to develop some players in-house. This may take 2-3 more seasons but in the end it will make for more long term success .... its more cap friendly.

I hate the way you casually accept 2-3 more seasons of limbo for this team. Yes it takes money, but we could at least try to make a team worth caring about instead of the pathetic mess we have now.

Corrosion
03-03-2006, 01:42 PM
I hate the way you casually accept 2-3 more seasons of limbo for this team. Yes it takes money, but we could at least try to make a team worth caring about instead of the pathetic mess we have now.


The team was 2-14 and has a myriad of holes .

The franchise took a huge step back last season . They cut a couple of long time veteran players from the D who will be hard to replace . Those players (Sharper and Glenn) werent very productive with their new teams either .... I didnt like the cuts at the time but they were the correct move.

The O-Line was pathetic again giving up 68 sacks ..... 8 off their NFL record if 76 in 02. Center and Both guard positions need an upgrade ... some think LT is also a position of weakness .

They have NO threat at WR outside of AJ who is routinely double and tripple covered.

This team has never had an all around talent at the TE position . B.Miller could catch but couldnt block , M.Bruener can block but cant catch .... When one or the other is in the game the opposing defense knows what type of play is coming .... there's Miller , its a pass (I know he's gone but for the sake of argument) .... There's Bruener .... Its a run. Then you have B.Joppru who hasnt played a single meaningful down in how many seasons ?

They have changed their defensive scheme from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and have no DE on the roster who can play the strong side . Babin and Peek are expected to see time on the weak side and neither are proven .

The defensive backfield is in shambles . They have D-Rob who is a solid player , Faggins who I think is a good nickle corner but not a starter , G.Earl and CC.Brown at the safeties .... Both of which are better suited to the SS position . CB and FS need an upgrade .

They dont really have LB's suited to the 4-3 .... Wong has been hurt , Greenwood was not very good . Peek and Babin are probably going to move to DE ....

And lets not forget about David Carr .... He hasnt progressed like he was expected to .

Thats enough whiskey to float a battle ship around ....

In my opinion the most prudent route is to fill these positions via the draft rather than picking up older or more expensive veterans thru FA . Those types of aquisitions are better left for a time when the team is a player or two away from making a serious play-off run. :twocents:

TexanAddict
03-03-2006, 02:52 PM
The team was 2-14 and has a myriad of holes...:twocents:

While it is true we have many holes to fill, I must disagree with the overall premise of this rant. Yes, you must build your team through the draft, but there is no reason to only build through the draft. I can understand your not wanting to bring in any older veterans whose best days are behind them, but their is no reason to not at least try to land free agents like Bentley (26yrs, 2 Pro Bowls) and Hope (25yrs) who are just entering the prime of their careers and would already upgrades at their respective positions for this team. To only attempt to sign mediocre talent weakens the team as a whole, especially when said talent is already being overpaid for. Go out and get us some real contributors.:twocents:

Corrosion
03-03-2006, 03:20 PM
While it is true we have many holes to fill, I must disagree with the overall premise of this rant. Yes, you must build your team through the draft, but there is no reason to only build through the draft. I can understand your not wanting to bring in any older veterans whose best days are behind them, but their is no reason to not at least try to land free agents like Bentley (26yrs, 2 Pro Bowls) and Hope (25yrs) who are just entering the prime of their careers and would already upgrades at their respective positions for this team. To only attempt to sign mediocre talent weakens the team as a whole, especially when said talent is already being overpaid for. Go out and get us some real contributors.:twocents:


Why overpay ?

Once the team fills some of its holes and becomes more competitive its much less likely that they will need to overpay for FA talent . The fact that Texas has no state income tax , the warm weather and a winning atmosphere will look much more attractive .

GP
03-03-2006, 04:01 PM
With the way the CBA negotiation is going, the free agency market is going to become nasty. You'll see hot talent just sitting out there without a team because nobody will be able to sign them under a new CBA deal. Even with us being $8 mill under the cap is not actually a lot of money to actually spend, and it needs to be held onto for a rainy day...such as a rookie first round pick that wants to get paid (Bush, for example) and who will threaten a hold out because he's the next Gale Sayers, after all.

I am a huge fan of drafting talent because you sign them so much cheaper than the veteran free agents who have played long enough to know they always have a meal ticket in this league no matter how well they do or don't play. A rookie has a sense of anxiety about his first year in the league and he works harder, on average, than the grizzled vet.

I say we trade down and grab 'Brick...and then add the compensated pick(s) to our already high-value picks...then use our money to sign young talent that has longer shelf life than the free agents.

No more free agency merchant marines for me.

TexanAddict
03-03-2006, 04:37 PM
Why overpay ?

Once the team fills some of its holes and becomes more competitive its much less likely that they will need to overpay for FA talent . The fact that Texas has no state income tax , the warm weather and a winning atmosphere will look much more attractive .

I'm not suggesting that we overpay, I'm simply stating that too often we have overpaid for lesser talent. I am suggesting, however, that we at least attempt to be competitive and show interest in those individuals who would immediately make an impact on this team instead of once again resting on our laurels. It's like we are to timid to ask the popular girl to dance.

MightyTExan
03-03-2006, 05:09 PM
I scan over the NFL sites and a lot of articles about teams releasing\signing quite a few players. Detroit just signed a backup QB for Harrington. I may be a little jaded now because of the past few seasons, but I can't take another offseason of no moves. It's almost like we're not a part of the NFL when it comes to the FA signings. :brickwall

Nighthawk
03-03-2006, 05:33 PM
The team was 2-14 and has a myriad of holes .

The franchise took a huge step back last season . They cut a couple of long time veteran players from the D who will be hard to replace . Those players (Sharper and Glenn) werent very productive with their new teams either .... I didnt like the cuts at the time but they were the correct move.

The O-Line was pathetic again giving up 68 sacks ..... 8 off their NFL record if 76 in 02. Center and Both guard positions need an upgrade ... some think LT is also a position of weakness .

They have NO threat at WR outside of AJ who is routinely double and tripple covered.

This team has never had an all around talent at the TE position . B.Miller could catch but couldnt block , M.Bruener can block but cant catch .... When one or the other is in the game the opposing defense knows what type of play is coming .... there's Miller , its a pass (I know he's gone but for the sake of argument) .... There's Bruener .... Its a run. Then you have B.Joppru who hasnt played a single meaningful down in how many seasons ?

They have changed their defensive scheme from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and have no DE on the roster who can play the strong side . Babin and Peek are expected to see time on the weak side and neither are proven .

The defensive backfield is in shambles . They have D-Rob who is a solid player , Faggins who I think is a good nickle corner but not a starter , G.Earl and CC.Brown at the safeties .... Both of which are better suited to the SS position . CB and FS need an upgrade .

They dont really have LB's suited to the 4-3 .... Wong has been hurt , Greenwood was not very good . Peek and Babin are probably going to move to DE ....

And lets not forget about David Carr .... He hasnt progressed like he was expected to .

Thats enough whiskey to float a battle ship around ....

In my opinion the most prudent route is to fill these positions via the draft rather than picking up older or more expensive veterans thru FA . Those types of aquisitions are better left for a time when the team is a player or two away from making a serious play-off run. :twocents:

I was going to write a detailed response and may, later. For now suffice to say that getting a few "better" players in FA to replace "cra**py" players we have on the team, would be a step forward. Every time you replace a lousy player with a slightly better player your team gets better. And if you're aggressive and get a couple of hotshots (bentley, for example) you turn up the wick on everybody else.

But the Texans have NEVER played hard in free agency. The Texans are TIMID AS THE DAY IS LONG when it comes to free agency. THe Texans are LATE, ALWAYS LATE when it comes to free agency. While Philly is on teh ball and signing or almost signing somebody we're sitting around saying "we could go after . . ."

That's the problem. One of the problems. The one I'm talking about now.

dat_boy_yec
03-03-2006, 09:51 PM
You know I could stand this wait for free agency. What gets me is that the only move we've made so far is re-signing Weary and making a minimal amount of cuts. I can understand the new coaching staff has to evaluate the current roster, but they haven't made any moves yet. They only cut 3 guys and they should be cutting or re-structuring other players. Smith raved about Peek, but I haven't even heard any rumblings about re-signing him yet. This is just killing me. The team has so much ground to cover and it feels as if they are moving to slow.

Nighthawk
03-03-2006, 11:01 PM
If the Texans are going to do anything to help this team in the short term they must be very active next week. There are NO SIGNS that they intend to be active. No whispers, no suggestions, no dumping of OK players with too-big salaries to get ready. Nothing. It's like they're sitting on their hands over there in the FO.

This is typical of this team. You can go out and play hardball and recruit and get a couple of excellent players and a few good players in FA if you play hardball. Not happening.

It's like the Houston lethargy, Cheech & Chong approach to FA. "Maybe we'll go after . . . " It's pathetic. Kubiac-era FA looks just like Capers-era FA. Later in the month we'll pick up a couple of slag guys and overpay big time.

This is a team with NO TIME ON THE CLOCK. It has already worn out its welcome with FOUR VERY LONG YEARS OF CRAPPY PLAY, and here they are poised to miss out on FA again. I hope I'm wrong. I hope they explode out of the blocks Monday (or whenever) and pick off a couple of quality guys, plus some guys who may not be heroes but are better than what we've got. I hope they cut the fat mercilessly, getting rid of overpaid players who refuse to redo their contracts. I hope they
DO SOMETHING
for once instead of pat each other on the rump and congratulate themselves for getting their priceless jobs with this very fine organization. Maybe the EARN YOUR WAY idea should start in the front office and then it might eventually get down to the field.

Do I think it'll happen? No way. I think they'll do a year seeing what difference Kubiak makes with a team pretty much like the existing team, and then next year, after the season, they'll look at each other and say, well, maybe we ought to get tough, get quick, get some FAs in here, draft better, take this thing seriously.

But that's next year. For the present, snore on.

samomin
03-03-2006, 11:08 PM
I think none of the NFL teams seem to be active at this point or suggesting they might be active because of the less than expected increase in salary cap. Now if we were to have a new CBA, boy there would be huge activity from most teams. All this dull FA start is only because of uncertainity.

edo783
03-03-2006, 11:08 PM
You must have just graduated from a Dale Carnagie or Zig Zigler course.

outofhnd
03-03-2006, 11:17 PM
PLEASE DON'T BE ACTIVE... THAT HAS HINDERED US IN THE PAST!!!

Buchanan, Wade, Riley, Rivers, Breuner, Mack, Greenwood, Banks, Robaire...

Have any of them made like wow I am so glad we picked up that player in FA type plays?

I didnt think so... Lets stop over spending on the undertalented and just add talent via the draft.

bdiddy
03-04-2006, 12:00 AM
Very few teams will be active without a new CBA. If there is no new CBA, the Texans will only sign mediocre veterans on the defensive side of the ball to be temporary replacements in the transition to the 4-3 (IMO).

dat_boy_yec
03-04-2006, 05:26 PM
PLEASE DON'T BE ACTIVE... THAT HAS HINDERED US IN THE PAST!!!

Buchanan, Wade, Riley, Rivers, Breuner, Mack, Greenwood, Banks, Robaire...

Have any of them made like wow I am so glad we picked up that player in FA type plays?

I didnt think so... Lets stop over spending on the undertalented and just add talent via the draft.

Being active isn't just about signing ppl. Cutting them is being active as well. Banks is gone Bruener should be gone. Riley's been gone and Rivers should be re-signed. Damn there's so much to be done before monday. The lethargy is frustrating. These things should have been taken care of before thursday, but I guess and hope they're just waiting for the CBA situation to be worked out and when monday or tuesday comes around we'll be bogged down with how many moved they pulled.:spy:

sprtsfanatic
03-04-2006, 11:39 PM
Since when is winning important in football? I thought it was all about money.

It absolutely is...as someone has already posted earlier there have been plenty of premier players have gone to total losers for the love of the money not the w's...sure there are plenty of players that are higher echelon of players realizing that their window of a championship run is dwindling so they go for a contending team, but there are far more that go where the money is. Now if we have such a great stadium, facilities, owner, no state taxes, etc...why arent they flocking here....I am really starting to think its cause someone isnt putting out the money for that kind of talent. And please dont bring up the overpaid FA's we got last year...I put the blame of all of those debacles on the previous coaching staff and good ol charlie cass. Oh and lets not leave out our beloved scouts and talent evaluators.

Runner
03-05-2006, 09:55 AM
You know I could stand this wait for free agency. What gets me is that the only move we've made so far is re-signing Weary and making a minimal amount of cuts. I can understand the new coaching staff has to evaluate the current roster, but they haven't made any moves yet. They only cut 3 guys and they should be cutting or re-structuring other players. Smith raved about Peek, but I haven't even heard any rumblings about re-signing him yet. This is just killing me. The team has so much ground to cover and it feels as if they are moving to slow.

Cutting players and making offers to RFAs is pretty much an effort in paperwork - they can get those done easily close to the deadline. I'm sure they have a stack of paper just waiting to go, so I doubt they are missing anything by inaction there.

As far as signing other teams' FAs, I don't know why they'd advertise that. It could drive the price up. Many of the reports of what other teams are doing are quickly denied anyway, so I don't know that we are any more or less actvie than anyone else right now.