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View Full Version : Jet fan here, So we may be trading up with you guys?


yako0o
02-26-2006, 10:40 PM
Jets | Rumor alert: team moving up to No. 1
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:53:02 -0800

Vic Carucci, of NFL.com, reports one rumor making the rounds at the NFL Combine was the New York Jets trading with the Houston Texans to acquire the No. 1 pick so they can select a quarterback to replace QB Chad Pennington. As the rumor goes, the Jets supposedly covet former USC QB Matt Leinart.


Personally, if we move up and its not for Reggie Bush I might have my first heart attack, and im only 22.

Joe Texan
02-26-2006, 10:58 PM
If they are listening to Charlie then they might not know the short leash he is on

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 11:03 PM
Jets | Rumor alert: team moving up to No. 1
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:53:02 -0800

Vic Carucci, of NFL.com, reports one rumor making the rounds at the NFL Combine was the New York Jets trading with the Houston Texans to acquire the No. 1 pick so they can select a quarterback to replace QB Chad Pennington. As the rumor goes, the Jets supposedly covet former USC QB Matt Leinart.


Personally, if we move up and its not for Reggie Bush I might have my first heart attack, and im only 22.

Well, your team would be better off going with Lienhert or Fergueson.

As far as trading with us, we should be looking for Abe, a second, fourth, and a 2nd next year. Maybe a 5th this year from us to you.

The price will be steep, but it is being asked.

yako0o
02-26-2006, 11:08 PM
Well, your team would be better off going with Lienhert or Fergueson.

As far as trading with us, we should be looking for Abe, a second, fourth, and a 2nd next year. Maybe a 5th this year from us to you.

The price will be steep, but it is being asked.

Are you including 1-4 in that plan?

If you are, then you are asking too much, even by Eli Mannings standard.

And if were applying the Manning standard here, I also must say EVERY draft has a different level of Elite/First round/second round talent, Meaning the value of picks is different every year.

IMO our fourth, has ALOT more value then the Chargers got with their 4th pick.

Texas
02-26-2006, 11:11 PM
Who would we be trying to get from the jets? I was thinking abraham but didnt he just get tagged?

TheTim5125
02-26-2006, 11:15 PM
am i correct in that the jets 2 years a ago traded their number 1 pick and the next years number one pick to move up? thats the reason they didn't have a number 1 last year right? someone correct me if i'm wrong.. so they aren't affraid to deal next years number 1.

cap1
02-26-2006, 11:17 PM
am i correct in that the jets 2 years a ago traded their number 1 pick and the next years number one pick to move up? thats the reason they didn't have a number 1 last year right? someone correct me if i'm wrong.. so they aren't affraid to deal next years number 1.

They had two first round picks in the year that Andre Johnson was picked. They traded up with Arizona or the Saints to #4. I can't remember the entire thing. As far as last year I am not sure. Let me look it up.

Ryan71780
02-26-2006, 11:20 PM
They tagged abe so they could trade him. I would hope we could get Abe, 4th pick and 2nd rounder and maybe move up some in a later round

TheTim5125
02-26-2006, 11:21 PM
I think that was the year they drafted Vilma

cap1
02-26-2006, 11:23 PM
2003 Traded up
2004 Drafted LB Vilma
2005 no Pick it belonged to Oakland. Was #26.

The following from: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/news/2003/04/26/nfl_draft_ap/
The New York Jets used the fourth overall pick to take defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson. The Jets dealt the 13th and 22nd draft picks to the Chicago Bears on Friday for a shot at taking Robertson.

Robertson was a three-year starter at Kentucky before giving up his final season of eligibility. He was named second-team All-SEC last year, recording 48 tackles and five sacks.

Knee and ankle injuries hampered Robertson's sophomore season, limiting him to 26 tackles and one sack. His career numbers don't prove it, but he has the ability to dominate and isn't easy to block.

The 6-1, 317-pound Robertson gets off the ball quickly and continues to develop his pass-rushing skills. He can get upfield, has good instincts and uses his wide frame well.

Dime
02-26-2006, 11:23 PM
Are you including 1-4 in that plan?

If you are, then you are asking too much, even by Eli Mannings standard.

And if were applying the Manning standard here, I also must say EVERY draft has a different level of Elite/First round/second round talent, Meaning the value of picks is different every year.

IMO our fourth, has ALOT more value then the Chargers got with their 4th pick.

I dont agree. Trading out of the top 3 this draft is more of a major move then ever (least the last few years) in trade value. With Bush a part of this draft really elevates it. Taking the Jets 1 (4th), 2nd round, 4th round and 2nd next year would be about right. Since you move down a level at 4th pick, Unless one of the top 3 (bush,lienhart,or vince) somehow gets bumped down which wont happen, then 4th pick of the draft is the 1st pick of the 4th to 10th talent with is a level down.

Marcus
02-26-2006, 11:24 PM
Personally, if we move up and its not for Reggie Bush I might have my first heart attack, and im only 22.

Spare your heart. Your team managed to get itself 25 million bucks over the cap. They couldn't trade up if they wanted to.

There gonna sit there and do nothing and watch D'Brickashaw fall right into their laps. GOD! I'm jealous!

___________________________

cap1
02-26-2006, 11:30 PM
am i correct in that the jets 2 years a ago traded their number 1 pick and the next years number one pick to move up? thats the reason they didn't have a number 1 last year right? someone correct me if i'm wrong.. so they aren't affraid to deal next years number 1.

Found it: http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/trades

Raiders Get
1st round, No. 26 (traded to Seahawks)
7th round, No. 230 (traded to Patriots)

Jets Get
Doug Jolley, TE
2nd round, No. 47: Mike Nugent, K, Ohio State
6th round, No. 182: Cedric Houston, RB, Tennessee
6th round, No. 185: Eric Moore, DE, Florida State

TheTim5125
02-26-2006, 11:35 PM
Say these rumors are true and the jets take Leinhart... heres hypothetically what happens

Jets from houston- Matt Leinhart
Saints- Need a QB, they take Young or trade down to someone who wants bush
Titans- Take young or bush depending on who's available ( i hope they don't take ferguson)
Texans from Jets- D'Brickshaw Ferguson

that really spices things up.. also from what I hear the saints really like Cutler. man i love draft talk in february

yako0o
02-26-2006, 11:40 PM
Spare your heart. Your team managed to get itself 25 million bucks over the cap. They couldn't trade up if they wanted to.

There gonna sit there and do nothing and watch D'Brickashaw fall right into their laps. GOD! I'm jealous!


You are misinformed. We are around 97m INCLUDING John Abraham, and waiting on Chad Pennington Cutting his salary this year(Hes at 12m right now). Our cap is fine, and was heavily exaggerated by the media.


I dont agree. Trading out of the top 3 this draft is more of a major move then ever (least the last few years) in trade value. With Bush a part of this draft really elevates it. Taking the Jets 1 (4th), 2nd round, 4th round and 2nd next year would be about right. Since you move down a level at 4th pick, Unless one of the top 3 (bush,lienhart,or vince) somehow gets bumped down which wont happen, then 4th pick of the draft is the 1st pick of the 4th to 10th talent with is a level down.

Dime, Firstly--Were not moving up to take Bush.

Secondly, I responded to "YoungTexanFan" who included abraham in his proposed deal, and "If he was including 1-4" as well I thought it was too much value.

Although I see no reason to get ripped off as the Chargers did, I do expect to give up significant value to move up 3 spots.

An example how everydraft is different is many draft experts have said there will be around 40-45 first round grades in this years draft. So this year, our second(And your also) will have a first round grade, and value is higher then most years.

This is just speculation, But if a trade does go down I wonder if Kevin Mawae is involved in the trade as well. Yes, player trades rarely happen but we save 1m dollars this year if he is cut/traded, and his base salary for the next two years is CRAZY CHEAP. Whoever we trade him to(if we trade him), will be getting a cheap Pro Bowl type player.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 11:58 PM
You are misinformed. We are around 97m INCLUDING John Abraham, and waiting on Chad Pennington Cutting his salary this year(Hes at 12m right now). Our cap is fine, and was heavily exaggerated by the media.



Dime, Firstly--Were not moving up to take Bush.

Secondly, I responded to "YoungTexanFan" who included abraham in his proposed deal, and "If he was including 1-4" as well I thought it was too much value.

Although I see no reason to get ripped off as the Chargers did, I do expect to give up significant value to move up 3 spots.

An example how everydraft is different is many draft experts have said there will be around 40-45 first round grades in this years draft. So this year, our second(And your also) will have a first round grade, and value is higher then most years.

This is just speculation, But if a trade does go down I wonder if Kevin Mawae is involved in the trade as well. Yes, player trades rarely happen but we save 1m dollars this year if he is cut/traded, and his base salary for the next two years is CRAZY CHEAP. Whoever we trade him to(if we trade him), will be getting a cheap Pro Bowl type player.


I included Abe in the deal for a few reasons. I posted some ideas on your MB if you want to take a look, I'm under the same name.

Abe did not want to be franchised, and has stated he does not want to be in NY. I included him because you do have a DE to replace him, your #4 overall pick of a few years back, and you do need a QB as of right now. Lienhert is the guy you are trading up for, everyone should realize that.

That might be a little much to ask, but I would expect nothing less than this: Abe, #4 overall, 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder next year.

While cap space may not be quite the issue it was made out to be, it is still a prevalent concern for your team. I do expect Abe to be traded. I do not expect him to be tendered by another team, thus forcing them to give up at least a first rounder. He will be traded for whatever you can get, and if he thickens the pot for your franchise QB, it makes all the sense.

BuffSoldier
02-27-2006, 12:02 AM
The more I hear about the trade down possiblities, the more excited I get. Now YakoOo, I agree that what YoungTexan was a little steep so what you think bout this. I think that the Texans get John Abraham, Jet round 1(#4) pick, this years second and 5th. I would hope that the Texans would take that.

YoungTexanFan
02-27-2006, 12:06 AM
The more I hear about the trade down possiblities, the more excited I get. Now YakoOo, I agree that what YoungTexan was a little steep so what you think bout this. I think that the Texans get John Abraham, Jet round 1(#4) pick, this years second and 5th. I would hope that the Texans would take that.

I could live with that, I also showed a lessened, maybe more realistic offer.

yako0o
02-27-2006, 12:28 AM
I included Abe in the deal for a few reasons. I posted some ideas on your MB if you want to take a look, I'm under the same name.


YoungTexanFan, what MB are you referring too, is there one on this site?

The site I usually post at is Jetsinsider, as the founders of Draftdaddy.com are residents there as well as many others who either write articles for other sites, or for the premium site @ Jetsinsider. I would have to say it is one of the best sites on the net, so I welcome anyone to come discuss anything there. Were talking about this sitation now. At that site, its all about intelligent football talk, and most people are wellinformed of salary cap info etc.

Now I will post again, and review what you said.

YoungTexanFan
02-27-2006, 12:37 AM
YoungTexanFan, what MB are you referring too, is there one on this site?

The site I usually post at is Jetsinsider, as the founders of Draftdaddy.com are residents there as well as many others who either write articles for other sites, or for the premium site @ Jetsinsider. I would have to say it is one of the best sites on the net, so I welcome anyone to come discuss anything there. Were talking about this sitation now. At that site, its all about intelligent football talk, and most people are wellinformed of salary cap info etc.

Now I will post again, and review what you said.

I was refering to the official one on your team website. I did not care enough to look for other MB's.

Most people on the "official" board are quite rude and the set-up is very poor. Everything related to football, including drafts, stadium info and EVERYTHING else is in ONE forum!!!

I'll stop by your other MB some day soon when its not 11 30. Most of the Vince Lovers have died off now, and you will start to see the more intelligent of us post. (not saying VY lovers aren't intelligent, just that we saw a CRAZY influx of "draft Vince now" mentalities in the weeks following the rose bowl.)
We have gone over most options, and most of the serious guys have put together a "big board" already and are updating it as the combine and pro-days come and go. We are well informed on our cap, as well as others. People from draft sites stop and post on our MB also. IMO, draftdaddy is the 'National Enquier' of major draft sites.

YoungTexanFan
02-27-2006, 12:39 AM
O, I also post occasionally on footballsfuture.com

its slower and the set up is poor compared to this one, but they cover a better range of stuff with a more diverse audience. I'm under the same name on that MB as well. I do not hide from MB to MB.

yako0o
02-27-2006, 12:43 AM
That might be a little much to ask, but I would expect nothing less than this: Abe, #4 overall, 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder next year.

Here is the Giants trade.
Manning, of course, was the headline acquisition in an offseason of change at Giants Stadium. He was obtained in a blockbuster draft-day trade with San Diego Chargers in which the Giants sent quarterback Philip Rivers, their third-round pick in this year’s draft and their first- and fifth-round choices in next year’s draft to the Chargers.

So to move up from one to four the Giants gave up next years first, third round this year, and 5th next year.

First lets make this simpler. Its common knowledge that a first next year is equal to a second this year. Or basically any round next year is worth one round less in a draft pick value chart. The giants first was equal to a current second round pick. The Giants 5th next year equaled a current sixth.

So the value here is the giants gave up a current 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick, and 5th round pick.

Also right now I have to say, that there is no way the Jets get less then a high second for Abraham. Most Jet along with local reporters are talking abou a first rounder, but for the sake of argument lets just say we get a second. I gave the reasons of his value in another thread, and if it came down to it, why wouldnt the Jets get better value elsewhere then come make the trade to you guys? Again, worst case is a mid-high 2nd rounder.

After that to be realistic if you guys "Rape" us by getting the same value as the Charger got, The trade would be some variation of

The Texans sending 1-1 to the Jets

The Jets sending 1-4, John Abraham, 3rd round pick, 6th round pick.

And obviously as a Jet fan I think thats alot, but if the FO think Leinarts the man, what can I do--This is all specualtion right now.

gtexan02
02-27-2006, 01:28 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2346349

some more evidence

TexanSam
02-27-2006, 02:01 AM
Here is the Giants trade.


So to move up from one to four the Giants gave up next years first, third round this year, and 5th next year.

First lets make this simpler. Its common knowledge that a first next year is equal to a second this year. Or basically any round next year is worth one round less in a draft pick value chart. The giants first was equal to a current second round pick. The Giants 5th next year equaled a current sixth.

So the value here is the giants gave up a current 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick, and 5th round pick.

Also right now I have to say, that there is no way the Jets get less then a high second for Abraham. Most Jet along with local reporters are talking abou a first rounder, but for the sake of argument lets just say we get a second. I gave the reasons of his value in another thread, and if it came down to it, why wouldnt the Jets get better value elsewhere then come make the trade to you guys? Again, worst case is a mid-high 2nd rounder.

After that to be realistic if you guys "Rape" us by getting the same value as the Charger got, The trade would be some variation of

The Texans sending 1-1 to the Jets

The Jets sending 1-4, John Abraham, 3rd round pick, 6th round pick.

And obviously as a Jet fan I think thats alot, but if the FO think Leinarts the man, what can I do--This is all specualtion right now.

John Abraham, and a 3rd and 6th round draft pick probably won't make it for the Texans. Our owner even said a few weeks back that we won't trade up unless it's a Godfater offer (an offer you can't refuse). That, to me, doesn't seem worth trading up for. Abraham and a 2nd and 4th round draft pick this year and none next year might be more likely.

gtexan02
02-27-2006, 11:49 AM
According to ESPN, the Jets have been in talks with both Denver and Washington about acquiring a 1st round pick packaged with some other pick for Abraham. If that were the case, do you think the Texans would trade the 1-1 for the Jets 1-4, 1-x, 3rd round and 6th round pick?

Texian
02-27-2006, 12:09 PM
Yako0o if Abraham is part of the deal then your #4 pick and your 3rd RD pick is fair value according to the NFL trade chart. If I were pulling the trigger I would want Abraham, #4 and next years #1. That's what I would need to do the deal.

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 12:11 PM
The Daily Quickie on ESPN has some thoughts on a trade down too. Patriots scenario is crazy but fun to think about.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/quickie

keyfro
02-27-2006, 12:24 PM
trading down is the way to go...especially if the jets are talking to the broncos about a possible three-way trade...i think the ideal trade scenario there would be the jets would send abe to denver for both of their first round picks...denver would get one of the best weakside DE's to match with pryce...the jets then would trade to us the 4th overall and one of the broncos 1st rounders...plus any additional picks casserly wants...the jets get the 1st overall pick and a chance to pick either USC player they want...another reason to watch this trade is the jets need at QB...if they make that trade with denver it gives them three 1st rounders...2 to trade to us...and one to trade for ramsey of the skins

yako0o
02-27-2006, 12:51 PM
I was refering to the official one on your team website. I did not care enough to look for other MB's.

Most people on the "official" board are quite rude and the set-up is very poor. Everything related to football, including drafts, stadium info and EVERYTHING else is in ONE forum!!!

IMO, draftdaddy is the 'National Enquier' of major draft sites.

YTF,

Jetsinsider actually has the same exact format as this site, I encourage you and whoever to visit there. Insults are kept to a minimum, and its mostly just good football talk. I really have not went to any other Jets message boards.

As far as Draft Daddy, I think your confusing it with another site.

You guys know that prospect videos thread in the texans "draft discussion"? That was originally made at draftdaddy, and most people have copied it along message boards. Someone had copied it and posted it on NFLDraftcountdown, and was almost banned by Scott Wright. I had the post in my favorites but apparently draftcountdown lost all of its post last night?(Nothing but 7 pages left)

Draftdaddy, puts out too little work to be called "National Inquirer", putting out only a few mocks, few profiles, and they are basically known for their blog. Their blog is by far the best on the net, and Scott Wright often copies some of it.

The most crazy thing I have ever seen those guys do is put Vince Young going 10th to the cardinals about a month ago. They received all types of crazy emails, people calling them stupid bla bla.....But as things are looking now they seem to be smarter then everyone else.

yako0o
02-27-2006, 01:00 PM
Yako0o if Abraham is part of the deal then your #4 pick and your 3rd RD pick is fair value according to the NFL trade chart. If I were pulling the trigger I would want Abraham, #4 and next years #1. That's what I would need to do the deal.


Hey Ill guess well see, thanks for responding.

John Abraham, and a 3rd and 6th round draft pick probably won't make it for the Texans. Our owner even said a few weeks back that we won't trade up unless it's a Godfater offer (an offer you can't refuse). That, to me, doesn't seem worth trading up for. Abraham and a 2nd and 4th round draft pick this year and none next year might be more likely.

Im guessing you failed to read anything I wrote.

That trade would be equal to what the Chargers got from the Giants. Till this day most people still think the Giants got raped.

Not to be offensive, but your GM is not known to be one of the better ones in the league, and I dont think hes capable of getting a "godfather deal". Our Gm got us in the playoffs 3 out of the 5 seasons he was here, and hes no longer here, so Im hoping the new one doesnt start out with a terrible move like trading up in one of the best drafts in history.

Vinny
02-27-2006, 01:28 PM
Not to be offensive, but your GM is not known to be one of the better ones in the league, and I dont think hes capable of getting a "godfather deal".Say what you want about Casserly, but Casserly was the GM who duped the Saints and Ricky Williams.

Xman
02-27-2006, 01:39 PM
Well, if the Jets are ok on the cap - I am surprised because all source indicate otherwise.

I agree that Abraham would fill a huge need with a stud player - but we are tight against the cap also. Since he will be a high dollar player, I lower his trade value a little.

That being said, it could work if the Jets are determined to fix their qb situation (instead of trading down and filling holes).

Abraham, #4, 2nd, and a 2nd next year (or a 3rd this year): I think we look for picks in the first 3 rounds - even if we have to include lesser picks going back and/or get future picks (ie. we get the 2nds even if we give them 4ths and/or 5ths).

Pick/Points Pick/Points Pick/Points
1 3,000 33 580 65 265
2 2,600 34 560 66 260
3 2,200 35 550 67 255
4 1,800 36 540

1st pick = 3000 points
4 = 1800; 36=540; Jets 3rd or future 2nd = 250ish
Abraham - 400 points in this scenario (seems a little low with rumors they could get a low 1st for him this year) - so maybe we give our 3rd back next year.

As far as the 4th pick being worth more than normal - so is the 1st pick. At worst, they cancel each other out.

My favorite scenario: do the deal above; then if Bush slides to 3 (and I think NO takes a qb), we offer #4, Jets 3rd and #66 for #3 (i would try to include a 5th for a 4th but i wouldn't push it). Then we get Bush and 2 high 2nd round picks (TE and OT) - in addition to Abraham (and we only lose #66).

#3 - Bush
#33 - Pope TE (if it looked like Pope might go - or a stud slipped to the 26-27 range - I would offer our 4th and #33 to move up)
#36 - Scott OT
#65 - Mangold OG/C
#97 - if not traded - whatever drops - probably another OL

I know I am dreaming, but at least in this dream our offense is only a 2nd WR away from being a force.

stevo3883
02-27-2006, 02:30 PM
Say what you want about Casserly.


lol don't tempt me!

TheOgre
02-27-2006, 02:33 PM
IMO our fourth, has ALOT more value then the Chargers got with their 4th pick.

You mean the Chargers' starting QB for the forseable future?

TEXANFAN23435
02-27-2006, 04:35 PM
If we trade down, which we should, then a potential H. Walker scenerio really could present itself. I know the NYJ's seem to be the safe bet but I would not rule out Tenn's interest in the top pick. It would only make sense that Fisher and Chow could be very happy with Leinert, who no matter what happens will not be available at the #3 pick. Not to mention that with McNair, Leinert would not be the starting QB until 07 or 08. 1 to 2 years learning the NFL game behind McNair would pay huge dividends. So, don't be suprised if the NYJ's talks heat up, that Tenn doesn't get on the phone to make a strong pitch.

IMHO, I would stock pile picks rather than add a veteran player as partial compensation. I would then parlay this position of power into a slam dunk over the next 2 drafts. No matter what happens this new rebuilding process is going to take at minimum 2 drafts and a couple of really smart FA pick ups. With this new talk of listening to offers for the #1 pick coming out of our camp, we are essentially "chuming the water to create a shark feeding frenzy". I'm 100% behind this move of showing our hand.

If we get the #3 or #4 pick and feel that the players we have rated high on our draft boards could still be available after the 4th pick and before the 13th pick, don't be suprised if we make a move again. Possibilities:

If we trade with Tenn:
2006, R1-#3, R2 & R4
2007, R1 & R3

If we trade with NYJ:
2006, R1-#4, R2 & R4
2007, R1 & R2

Potential moves for the #3 or #4 picks and teams that might be interested in moving up:

If we trade the #3 pick, possible suitors for VY or RB: GB-#5, SF-#7, Det-#9, Ari-#10 or Bal-#13.
2006, R1(Above), R3 & R5
2007, R1 & R3

If we trade the #4 pick, possible suitors for JC or DF: Oak-#6, Det-#9, Ari-#10, Cle-#12 or Bal-#13.
2006, R1(above), R4 & R5
2007, R2 & R5

If we could pull these moves, the team picks up 10 additional draft choices minimum plus our standard 13 picks for 06 and 07. 23 picks all told. This is cetainly our H. Walker deal. Thing is, can we accomplish what we want by starting this years draft at #5 or as late as #13????

We could potentially end up with:
2006: 1-R1, 2-R2, 3 or 4-R3, 2 or 3-R4, 2-R5 & 1-R6

2007: 2 or 3-R1, 2 or 3-R2, 1 or 2-R3, 1-R4, 1 or 2-R5 & 1-R6

Bottom line, picks 1-4 hold tremendous value in this years draft, all we have to do is capitalize on this situation. So, lets build a new team. With the wave of potential FA's the possibilities of getting 2 FA's to help this team at the right price should be very doable.

cap1
02-27-2006, 10:56 PM
Bottom line, picks 1-4 hold tremendous value in this years draft, all we have to do is capitalize on this situation. So, lets build a new team. With the wave of potential FA's the possibilities of getting 2 FA's to help this team at the right price should be very doable.

I would be very happy if this happened witht he picks, but I just hope we would pick up the right players with the picks.