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View Full Version : With Young out of top 3, what effect on us?


Nighthawk
02-26-2006, 01:38 AM
Let's say that VY has screwed himself with every move since the Rose Bowl, culminating in the 6 on the Wonderlic (later revised to 16, negating the thrust of this thread) that has been widely rumored, and will fall at least to 10, probably lower. How does this impact our draft? Means that Bush, Leinart, Cutler, DBrick are top 4 in that order? Can we now trade with Jets and pick at four and presume to get Bush?

LBC_Justin
02-26-2006, 02:02 AM
Let's say that VY has screwed himself with every move since the Rose Bowl, culminating in the 6 on the Wonderlich that has been widely rumored, and will fall at least to 10, probably lower. How does this impact our draft? Means that Bush, Leinart, Cutler, DBrick are top 4 in that order? Can we now trade with Jets and pick at four and presume to get Bush?Depends, this might make this draft a battle for Matt Leinart. With either NY, Tenn or NO wanting to trade up for Leinart.

I used to think the Top 5 was the place to be. Now I think we have to stay in the top 4. We don't want to trade down and miss out on D'Brick or Super Mario, and we will have no interest in Cutler. I just can't see us taking either of those guys without trading down, if we do grab one of them with the #1 overall pick I will not be disappointed but it will be a bit of a "let down".

I would be perfectly happy with any of these three senarios.
- Us drafting Reggie Bush #1.
- Us trading down to #2-#4 and grabing D'Brick
- Us trading down to #2-#4 and grabing Super Mario

I think those are the only three players we have interest in with our early pick. Maybe if we trade down to 6-8 I could see us grabbing AJ Hawk or Vernon Davis but only if our whole coaching staff and McNair are in love with one of those guys. But that would be a huge let down for the fans and I don't see McNair standing for that.

texman8
02-26-2006, 02:08 AM
You're so right. It's either Bush, D'Brick,or Mario. Did you see him on NFL network on their combine show with Eisen and Butch Davis. The guy was very impressive and articulate. ( D'Brick)

threetoedpete
02-26-2006, 08:14 AM
You're so right. It's either Bush, D'Brick,or Mario. Did you see him on NFL network on their combine show with Eisen and Butch Davis. The guy was very impressive and articulate. ( D'Brick)
Not a knock against Ptts ok, but the franchise has needed a stud LT, for the
QB since Bosselli dind't work out. Now we got one, got the ammo to trade down and get our guy and even more help. But after last year...anything can and will happen. I don't see how they can blow this pick. But we'll find a way.

:brickwall

SESupergenius
02-26-2006, 04:20 PM
Everyone needs to pull for VY because he becomes a great bargaining chip if his stock is high. Not only that, if his stock is high, people might want to overpay for him, or we may just evaluate him as a can't miss target and take him for ourselves. It's a win win decision if that happens.

Napa Auto Parts
02-26-2006, 07:24 PM
i was listening to NFL channel on Sirius today and they are still talking about VY to titans at 3. i just hope someone falls in love with VY or ML and we get a hell of a deal on a trade. we could always get drew brees or a real QB thru Free agency.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 08:07 PM
i was listening to NFL channel on Sirius today and they are still talking about VY to titans at 3. i just hope someone falls in love with VY or ML and we get a hell of a deal on a trade. we could always get drew brees or a real QB thru Free agency.


you're consistent if nothing else ..... carry on

HoustonFrog
02-26-2006, 08:12 PM
I'm just not going with this Wunderlic thing. Charlie said his people doubt it. I also don't think people all of a sudden have decided asking SAT questions diminishes his value. This stuff is just pure bunk to me. He obviously has succeeded in whatever he has done and I don't think this rumor will diminish this. Here goes months of rumors about random things.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 08:20 PM
I'm just not going with this Wunderlic thing. Charlie said his people doubt it. I also don't think people all of a sudden have decided asking SAT questions diminishes his value. This stuff is just pure bunk to me. He obviously has succeeded in whatever he has done and I don't think this rumor will diminish this. Here goes months of rumors about random things.


Whether the test was a 6, 16, or 46 one of the question marks about Young is his ability to translate his athletic ability to success at the NFL level. Admittedly, he didn't really flourish at UT until his was allowed to "be himself". At the next level, coaches will attempt to confuse him and force him to beat them with his arm and head. He will not be able to simply scramble to victory at the NFL level. Therefore his cognitive ability is not an insignificant quantity.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2006, 08:30 PM
Whether the test was a 6, 16, or 46 one of the question marks about Young is his ability to translate his athletic ability to success at the NFL level. Admittedly, he didn't really flourish at UT until his was allowed to "be himself". At the next level, coaches will attempt to confuse him and force him to beat them with his arm and head. He will not be able to simply scramble to victory at the NFL level. Therefore his cognitive ability is not an insignificant quantity.

I agree completely but what does SAT questions have to do with football smarts. I mean it isn't like football players have been the smartest humans over time. Do you guys ever watch Terry Bradshaw?The list goes on. If you are getting paid millions and you have to learn something you love, most will do it. I'm not even for drafting the guy but I don't think this rumor is affecting him that much and I still just read articles in Sunday reports with him at 3.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 08:33 PM
I agree completely but what does SAT questions have to do with football smarts.

no disagreement from me but how can we measure it then? just forget the whole thing? is the Wonderlic completely useless?

HoustonFrog
02-26-2006, 08:43 PM
no disagreement from me but how can we measure it then? just forget the whole thing? is the Wonderlic completely useless?

Not sure at all. I guess you just run a guy through what your offense might be and see how he picks up things. I just have a hard time linking football smarts and those.

Napa Auto Parts
02-26-2006, 08:48 PM
you're consistent if nothing else ..... carry on



i try my best hell i might even break out the we need brady quins post. just to prepare for next year:stirpot:

chuckm
02-26-2006, 08:49 PM
Not sure at all. I guess you just run a guy through what your offense might be and see how he picks up things. I just have a hard time linking football smarts and those.

But you'll need to use a high draft pick and pay him a multi-million dollar signing bonus before you can truly get a sense of that ... risky business

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 08:52 PM
Too bad the Vince Wonderlic score of 6 was completely false, making the assumption that he's out of the top 3 and this entire thread completely irrelevant.

Next.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 08:53 PM
Too bad the Vince Wonderlic score of 6 was completely false, making the assumption that he's out of the top 3 and this entire thread completely irrelevant.

Next.

If you're not interested in this conversation, then log off

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 09:48 PM
If you're not interested in this conversation, then log off

I'm interested in spreading the truth to my fellow Texan fans, so when I see fans debating an issue that simply lacks relevance (i.e. isn't true), I'm going to log-in and continually remind y'all of such.

edo783
02-26-2006, 10:24 PM
Too bad the Vince Wonderlic score of 6 was completely false, making the assumption that he's out of the top 3 and this entire thread completely irrelevant. Next.


From KFFL:
NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800
Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.

TreWardTxn
02-26-2006, 10:44 PM
Regardless of what dude scored, I don't believe that anyone can show any type of statistical relationship between a prospect's scores on the Wonderlic test and pro football success, even at the QB position. I don't see how having players recognize numerical patterns and such, something they haven't done since middle school, can display how well a QB will recognize a particular coverage and its breakdown, something that they have been working on for an entire offseason, or at the very least, during the week preparing for a game. When a young safety makes a great anticiaptory break on the ball, do announcer say, 'oh, he slayed the pattern recognition portions of the Wonderlic test,' naw, they say the guy has great football instincts and studies a ridiculous amount of film. Like a lot of stuff at the combine, the wonderlic is overblown, mostly 'cause there is no other foobtall news to talk about yet. It's still fun to get your opinions in there tho...

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 10:59 PM
From KFFL:
NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800
Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.

Multiple sources, including 610's own Lance Zerlein (sp?) have confirmed that Vince made a 16 on the Wonderlic. The reports of six were incorrect.

COMBINE OFFICIAL SCREWED UP VINCE'S WONDERLIC

A league source tells us that Texas quarterback Vince Young indeed scored a six on the Wonderlic test on Saturday -- but that the guy who graded the test screwed the thing up when determining how many were right, and how many weren't.

Combine officials, we're told, have re-scored the Young's test and the test of all other players who took it in his group. NFL teams will get the official Wonderlic results for all players later in the week.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Any of you who still believe Vince scored a six pretty clearly have some kind of bias against him.

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 07:35 AM
Multiple sources, including 610's own Lance Zerlein (sp?) have confirmed that Vince made a 16 on the Wonderlic. The reports of six were incorrect.



http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Any of you who still believe Vince scored a six pretty clearly have some kind of bias against him.

Agreed. I believe the VY haters are just as bad as the VY lovers now. Anything to tear a kid down. Grow up about it. It isn't like it is recess anymore. To me it reeks of p' envy everytime I see it. You don't know the kid so stop trying to degrade him just because you don't want to take him. I don't want to take him either but I wish him well. He didn't do anything wrong to me or anything.

jerek
02-27-2006, 10:27 AM
Multiple sources, including 610's own Lance Zerlein (sp?) have confirmed that Vince made a 16 on the Wonderlic. The reports of six were incorrect.



http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Any of you who still believe Vince scored a six pretty clearly have some kind of bias against him.

Not that I know that Vince got a 6 - all I hear is rumors left and right - but now you "know" that he didn't get a 6, because a couple of highly dubious sources (and publicly self-proclaimed VY fans) have "confirmed" it?

A little curious, isn't it?

Frills
02-27-2006, 10:43 AM
its proven he can't make good decisions, wether who to have as his agent, who to bring his suit...

:sarcasm:

edo783
02-27-2006, 08:58 PM
Actually, according to John McClain, he DID get a 6. He then took it again and scored "around" a 16. Now we know McClain is VY's PR guy, so around a 16 probably means a 12 or 13 or something. If it actually was better than that he would have said it and if it was a 16 he wouldn't have said "Around". he would have said "It was a 16". Not trying to tear the kid down, but not trying to pump smoke up folks backsides either. The first report came from PFT who is just a rumore mill, however, the other reports came from KFFL and others who in fact were correct in reporting that he did shoot a 6 and then was able to improve it on a re-test (good for him). His management team are a freaking joke and should be shot for allowing the kid to get this screwed up on the test by not properly preparing him, then screwed-up at the Whitehouse gig and others. I find it odd to say the least that folks want to spend the #1 pick on a QB that has question marks regarding his mental capacity, ability to read defenses, arm strength, type of offense he played in, coachability etc. Since when is a number one pick who has that many question marks and isn't even the top ranked player at his position, much less in the draft, supposed to be the #1 pick in value? That makes ZERO sense IMO. That isn't the profile of a number one pick IMO, but rather A development type of pick. If VY weren't from UT with all of the venom that has been spewed by them and were available later in the draft as a development player, then yes, I might take a swing at him, but as the number one pick in a good quality draft....NO FREAKING WAY. He is a very high risk pick IMO. Could be a high reward guy, but you don't pick that type of player number one in the whole draft, that would be insane.

HeroTime
02-27-2006, 09:38 PM
So he goes from Rainman level to Corky from Life Goes On level. Great to see that the "Horns" sacrificed education for that trophy. American education system at it's best.

Txn_in_Oki
02-28-2006, 06:23 PM
Leader, Leader, Leader.

Any time someone brings up anything negative about VY someone throws back the leader card. Seems like that is the ONE thing that everyone harps on.

Being a leader is great, charisma is great too. You know who else was a hell of a leader. George Custer, he led the hell out of those guys didn't he.

Point being, just because someone can lead it doesn't mean they are the best one for the job.

YodAa
02-28-2006, 07:22 PM
Young isn't out of the top 3. Who do you think is promoting Jay Cutler? Who do you think is demoting Vince Young? The teams that want VY, I certaintly don't expect to see him on the board at number 4 but worst case scenario he goes to the Raiders at #7

stevo3883
02-28-2006, 09:04 PM
custer wasn't 30-2 as a leader. hell, he might be 3-1.

don't bring up custer .. please. unless custer had 6 minutes to kill a 12 pt lead on the greatest college team EVER and you actually believe his leadership would have brought about a win. here is a question for you.... what player EVER, do you think could beat the greatest college team ever being down by 12 points with 6 minutes left?????

answer me that all you internet guru's...


exactly what i think of. there isnt a qb in history that i wouldve taken over vince at that moment down by 12 with 6 minutes left.

HJam72
02-28-2006, 09:06 PM
custer wasn't 30-2 as a leader. hell, he might be 3-1.

don't bring up custer .. please. unless custer had 6 minutes to kill a 12 pt lead on the greatest college team EVER and you actually believe his leadership would have brought about a win. here is a question for you.... what player EVER, do you think could beat the greatest college team ever being down by 12 points with 6 minutes left?????

answer me that all you internet guru's...

There were NOT the greatest college team ever. Not even close. They MIGHT have been the greatest offense ever....maybe. VY took advantage of a sorry excuse for a championship defense. A good offense will pulverize a bad defense much more so than a great offense will beat a good defense. That's why defense wins championships.

CITY CAT
02-28-2006, 09:37 PM
There were NOT the greatest college team ever. Not even close. They MIGHT have been the greatest offense ever....maybe. VY took advantage of a sorry excuse for a championship defense. A good offense will pulverize a bad defense much more so than a great offense will beat a good defense. That's why defense wins championships.

Well said, but you can't argue that VY had one of the most incredible performances ever. I don't even think its sunk in, he doesn't even know what he just did. But I think all this "free falling" that he has done makes me think he should have stayed in school another year. He throws the midrange ball to high. That won't bode well with NFL recievers because then they have to jump and get knocked out by the likes of Roy Williams, B. Dawkins, Polamalu etc.

Tha_Tinman
03-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Not a knock against Ptts ok, but the franchise has needed a stud LT, for the
QB since Bosselli dind't work out. Now we got one, got the ammo to trade down and get our guy and even more help. But after last year...anything can and will happen. I don't see how they can blow this pick. But we'll find a way.

:brickwall

Have you noticed how much weight D'Brick has been putting on ...a couple seasons ago he was about 250 or 60 he says ...last year played at about 290 and already up to 312 since the Senior Bowl and he's STILL packin it on...All that extra weight is just a knee injury waiting to happen. I like D'Brick ...not as much as Vince ofcourse ...but I'm not sure how stable he's going to be with all the new weight.

HJam72
03-01-2006, 07:43 AM
Well said, but you can't argue that VY had one of the most incredible performances ever. I don't even think its sunk in, he doesn't even know what he just did. But I think all this "free falling" that he has done makes me think he should have stayed in school another year. He throws the midrange ball to high. That won't bode well with NFL recievers because then they have to jump and get knocked out by the likes of Roy Williams, B. Dawkins, Polamalu etc.

Yes, he did. The too-high midrange throws will also lead to interceptions, although that's the first time I've heard that about him.

jerek
03-01-2006, 09:31 AM
custer wasn't 30-2 as a leader. hell, he might be 3-1.

don't bring up custer .. please. unless custer had 6 minutes to kill a 12 pt lead on the greatest college team EVER and you actually believe his leadership would have brought about a win. here is a question for you.... what player EVER, do you think could beat the greatest college team ever being down by 12 points with 6 minutes left?????

answer me that all you internet guru's...

This is utterly stupid. Now USC is the greatest college team ever? Not only that, but "no other" QB could engineer a 12-pt/6 min comeback against them?

Why don't we build a tower inside the Hall of Fame, a very special Vincent Young Jr. tower. Clear out the rest of the floor, Vince's statue is gonna need it all ...

thunderkyss
03-01-2006, 09:48 AM
custer wasn't 30-2 as a leader. hell, he might be 3-1.

don't bring up custer .. please. unless custer had 6 minutes to kill a 12 pt lead on the greatest college team EVER and you actually believe his leadership would have brought about a win. here is a question for you.... what player EVER, do you think could beat the greatest college team ever being down by 12 points with 6 minutes left?????

answer me that all you internet guru's...


Bamboo, I have to admit you embarrass me most of the time as I too am a Vince Young supporter. some of your arguments are out there, & I generally stay away from them. But this one, that you keep bringing up....

Man I had to hear this crap for a month before the game. Texas had the lead at half-time, or I bet there would have been some kind of USC tribute show. Last quarter of the game, that crap came out again.... comparing USC 2005 to all the great college teams in History....... all of them, and more times than not, USC 2005 came out on top. 6 minutes to go, two scores down.... Suddenly USC has the 29th rated defense in the NCAA..... out of what?? 1000?? It's just funny how people's opinions change depending on what they are trying to prove(I'm no different, but it's just funnier when you're on the right end).....

CITY CAT
03-01-2006, 09:52 PM
I think VY should have stayed in school another year. If UT would have lost the Rose Bowl then I think no doubt he would have stayed. Anyone else think the should have stayed at Texas another year?

tulexan
03-01-2006, 10:00 PM
Yeah I wish he stayed so we wouldn't have to deal with this. Life was so much easier before the Rose Bowl.

CITY CAT
03-02-2006, 03:27 PM
Yeah I wish he stayed so we wouldn't have to deal with this. Life was so much easier before the Rose Bowl.

Would he have stayed if they lost?

Sportsfan
03-02-2006, 03:35 PM
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