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DFAN
02-25-2006, 04:27 PM
According to Pro Football Talk, the word at the Combine is that Vince Young scored a 6 out of 50 on the Wonderlic.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Said the source, who knows a thing or two about evaluating college players:

"I predict he'll fall all the way out of the first round."

That's a bold statement, and we're not saying that we agree with it -- primarily because our guess is that there's someone almost dumb enough to get a six on the Wonderlic, who'll overlook Young's low score along with any other concerns that might come to light over the next two months.

The Dude Abides
02-25-2006, 04:29 PM
What exactly is the Wonderlic?

Never mind. I found it. Here are some sample questions.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

TexanSam
02-25-2006, 04:36 PM
That's hard to believe. I don't think it's true either, but that's just a gut feeling. That site doesn't look like the most reliable one in the world either...

BuffSoldier
02-25-2006, 04:38 PM
Just a tabloid site

ledzeppelin229
02-25-2006, 04:56 PM
Probably someone in the bottom half of the top 10 trying to create doubts about his intelligence to see if he drops a few spots.

CoastalTexan
02-25-2006, 06:32 PM
So thats why he's leaving early, schools a lil tough on him. Imagine if he got hurt and had to try/or attend class.

Matt_Alkire
02-25-2006, 06:37 PM
Just to help some people here out. ProFootballTalk is not just a "tabloid site". Don't take that as personal, but I just wanted to let you know.

Mike Florio started the site after his initial site was bought by ESPN. It is now called ESPN Insider. So, it's certainly far from a flash in the pan site.

He has alot of legitimate contacts in the NFL. Now keep in mind, alot of those contacts are agents. So, if Jay Cutler's agent wants to stir the pot a bit he could spread a rumor through Florio and others that Young scored a 6 on the Wonderlic.

I know alot of Longhorns fans will dismiss it as BS, but from listening to Vince in interviews I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lower score. If he had a 6 then I'm sorry, but that should really hurt his status. A 6 is so pathetic I can't imagine he really scored it though. That's just really, really bad.

Guys like Donovan McNabb and Dan Marino scored in the 13-15 range so, there's some ammunition for you if he scores there and people rip on him.

If he scored a 6, I don't know what to say.

chuckm
02-25-2006, 06:39 PM
Just to help some people here out. ProFootballTalk is not just a "tabloid site".


Imagine if this site did not exist, we'd never have heard of Ron Mexico .... I have to admit that I visit it quite often myself ....

Porky
02-25-2006, 06:40 PM
I got 13 out of 15 correct on the sample test, giving myself about 10 seconds for each answer, using no paper. This is child's play. I could have gotten at least 10 out of 15 using paper as a 5th grader. It's really kind of embarrasing how our HS's and Colleges are turning out people with rocks for brains. OTOH, there is "normal" smart, and football smart. I am more concerned about football smarts myself. Granted a QB is generally going to need to be intelligent, but knocking him out of the first rd? Come on now.

Porky
02-25-2006, 06:46 PM
Just a little more info on the Wonderlic to put things in perspective:

Some teams consider the test results critical. Others say they dismiss the results, except for players who score at the extremes. What's an extreme? Well, former Bengals punter and Harvard grad Pat McInally scored a perfect 50 -- the only NFL player known to do so -- while at least one player, it is rumored, scored a 1. Charlie Wonderlic Jr., president of Wonderlic Inc., says, "A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say."If that's the case, more than a few pros are being delivered the Books-on-Tape version of the playbook.

Each year, about 2.5 million job applicants, in every line of work, take the Wonderlic. The average NFL combiner scores about the same as the average applicant for any other job, a 21. A 20 indicates the test-taker has an IQ of 100, which is average.

link (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228.html)

Porky
02-25-2006, 06:55 PM
Here is some more interesting info. These are some scores of past QB's, including David Carr. Young, if this is true, would be the lowest of any of these.


Tom Brady has a wonderlic score of 33, second highest to Stanford's Todd Husac of 39 in the 2000 draft. The surprising thing is that Mr. Rhodes Scholar Chad Pennington only has a 25 score. Tee Martin has an awful 11 score, which makes you wonder how any team could have chosen him ahead of Tom.

Michigan's Brian Griese and Drew Hensom have two of the higest scores, Griese at 39 and Henson at an eye-popping 42, second highest in history.

Here are some other interesting historical scores:

Dan Marino 14
Steve Young 33 (just like Tommy)
Vinny Testaverde 18
Randall Cunningham 15
Rich Gannon 27
Troy Aikman 29
Bret Favre 22
Drew Bledsoe 37 (Smarter than Tom!)
Kordell Stewart 12
Michael Bishop 10
Donovan McNabb 12
Dante Culpepper 15
Chris Redman 16 (picked ahead of Tom)
AJ Feeley 19
Michale Vick 20
David Carr 24
Ben Rothlisberger 25


These scores are certainly reflective of the players' intelligence. I always thought McNabb and Culpepper play dumb, and their scores confirm it. I also thought Michael Vick, though not smart, is still smarter than McNabb and Culpepper, which is again confirmed by the scores.

I always thought Marino used his brawn rather than his brain, not like Joe Montana and Steve Young. Again, their scores confrim it.

Randall Cunningham, Vinny Testaverde, Kordell Stewart always make stupid plays. Which again is confimed by the score.

The one surprising score is Drew Bledsoe. I also thought he was dumb, always making those stupid decisions. But, surprisingly, Drew has a very high score.

link (http://patsfans.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=5194)

Also this site (http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm) has the wonderlic on most of the modern day QB's, going back as far as 1982. The lowest scores I can find are a few 10's and 11's. So, if Young's 6 is confirmed, it does have to make you wonder at least a little bit.

Nighthawk
02-25-2006, 07:11 PM
If true it pretty much sinks Vince's boat. Are these numbers going to become public knowledge? I mean, do they come out with the rest of the combine measurements?

What were Cutler's and Leinart's scores, anybody know?

NJTexanFan
02-25-2006, 07:25 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Interesting read saying that out of the Wonderlic Test they give at the combine Vince Young had scored a 6! out of 50 questions, I don't know about the rest of you, but i don't want a quarterback like that.

Napa Auto Parts
02-25-2006, 07:29 PM
if true yes ive seen what he can do on the field but more than vince young i just want another QB hell offer me jesse palmer he would be and upgrade.:twocents: it does not have to be vince young for me just someone else.

gg no re
02-25-2006, 08:02 PM
I would dismiss those scores.

Forrest Gump was an absolute terror for the Crimson Tide, and I doubt IQ slowed his game.

thunderkyss
02-25-2006, 08:06 PM
Surely it's a mistake......... I bet they meant 60. As in off the chart.

thetexanator
02-25-2006, 10:32 PM
ahahhahha. no one scores a 6 on the wonderlic. hahhhahahh. theres no way he scored a 6.

edo783
02-25-2006, 10:51 PM
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2006, 10:56 PM
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.

Well, this give every HS student in America a viable chance to get into UT.

"But I scored double digits on my wonderlic test..."

Errant Hothy
02-25-2006, 10:57 PM
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

Sucks for him, but I must say he/his managment team have done very little to help him get drafted #1. It all really kinda sad.

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2006, 11:00 PM
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

Sucks for him, but I must say he/his managment team have done very little to help him get drafted #1. It all really kinda sad.


Have you heard the guy talk?

If I was his agent, I would not be letting him talk in public until he is drafted. He would be throwing at the combine also.

HJam72
02-25-2006, 11:01 PM
When I heard him yelling, "Who's the Heismann now?!" I knew 2 things immediately:

1) The hype on him would be HUGE.

2) His IQ is definitely below average.

I can't say how that translates in terms of his ability to play in the NFL. Obviously, he succeeded at the college level.

That's about all I can say, except that I'm shocked that Marino scored so low. Just out of curiosity, I wonder how Carr did.

I have to mention, also, that I think it's apalling that it's necessary for employers to give people wonderlic tests to find out if they are even partially competent, when they've just spent several years in college, especially major universities. They need to start paying people to play sports and stop giving them scholarships for being physically gifted. The two things are just so different that they are almost opposites.

Errant Hothy
02-25-2006, 11:04 PM
Have you heard the guy talk?

Yes, I have because there plenty of guys who sound really stupid when speaking, yet they all managed to score above a 6.

I don't put much credance in how people talk for being the determinig factor in their intellegence.

Porky
02-25-2006, 11:04 PM
When I heard him yelling, "Who's the Heismann now?!" I knew 2 things immediately:

1) The hype on him would be HUGE.

2) His IQ is definitely below average.

I can't say how that translates in terms of his ability to play in the NFL. Obviously, he succeeded at the college level.

That's about all I can say, except that I'm shocked that Marino scored so low. Just out of curiosity, I wonder how Carr did.

Carr scored a 24. Go back and read my original post. Not exactly Einsteinesque, but a little better than pet rockish as VY seems to be.

Matt_Alkire
02-25-2006, 11:06 PM
@Porky....

I don't know where you get that Donovan McNabb is unintelligent, but I couldn't disagree more with someone. McNabb managed to graduate from the highly regarded SI Newhouse School of Communications at Syracuse. If you're not familiar with Newhouse, it's one of, if not the most elite Communications school in the United States. I know many people in the business that had to wait a year or two to even get into Newhouse. He is the founder of a diabetes foundation that he runs helping thousands nationwide. He was the youngest member ever on the Syracuse Board of Trustees. They don't let dumbies onto any BOT regardless of there athletic ability.

Seor Stan
02-25-2006, 11:07 PM
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.

Wow. If true, that is really, really, really bad. That is like Lester Hayes and Dexter Manley bad. That is Manny Ramirez bad. Damn.

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2006, 11:07 PM
Yes, I have because there plenty of guys who sound really stupid when speaking, yet they all managed to score above a 6.

I don't put much credance in how people talk for being the determinig factor in their intellegence.

While most of the time, neither do I, his speech and lack of vocabulary and basic comprehension of reporters questions...along with picking his agent and taking his advice, ALONG with this now confirmed test score of a 6...I will lable VY now.

My NFL Comparison:

Vince Younge intelligence = Pig used to make football.

travfrancis
02-25-2006, 11:08 PM
looks like porky jumped ship

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2006, 11:14 PM
@Porky....

I don't know where you get that Donovan McNabb is unintelligent, but I couldn't disagree more with someone. McNabb managed to graduate from the highly regarded SI Newhouse School of Communications at Syracuse. If you're not familiar with Newhouse, it's one of, if not the most elite Communications school in the United States. I know many people in the business that had to wait a year or two to even get into Newhouse. He is the founder of a diabetes foundation that he runs helping thousands nationwide. He was the youngest member ever on the Syracuse Board of Trustees. They don't let dumbies onto any BOT regardless of there athletic ability.

There are many factors that may lead to such a spot, and while I am not saying he is not intelligent, I am saying that he is dedicated.

Some of the kids with the best grades are the ones who score in the middle range on the SAT's and the ACT's and the Wonderlics, while kids with mediocre grades surprise everyone and score in the top percentile of the aformentioned tests.

Why you ask? Overachieving vs. laizness. Some people simply dedicate themselves to the books, but lack actual intelligence that they can recite without refering to a text book. Some people will only skim the chapters looking for pictures, never turn in their homework, but still do well on tests due to an actual "intelligence" level.

Intelligence is not really something that can be improved on to a certian point. You can work hard to hide your deficiencies, but you will never actually be as intelligent as the other given person.

Hope that made sense and helped.

Dr. Toro
02-25-2006, 11:16 PM
Profootballtalk has updated their site, saying they confirmed VY got a 6. That's a dreadful score. I'm not too concerned about it, but then again I hold his game in much higher esteem than most.

If this is true, then the plot certainly thickens. Tough to believe a guy can get a qualifying SAT score and drop a 6 on this.

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2006, 11:18 PM
If this is true, then the plot certainly thickens. Tough to believe a guy can get a qualifying SAT score and drop a 6 on this.

Yes, I demand an IQ test and a CAT scan of his head.

I also demand he pass a litercy test.

LBC_Justin
02-25-2006, 11:21 PM
Honestly I feel really bad for Vince if this is true. I'll wait to see if some more mainstream media report on this.

I can't say I am shocked he scored low on the test, but a "6" by any player is a head scratcher.

His choice of agent and several of his post Rose Bowl decisions made it clear he was not the smartest guy.

He is still an amazing athlete, with a ton of leadership skills, the heart of a champion and a guy that play with instinct.

If I was him I would retake the test, also a score that low screams learning disability, anyways something isn't right. You can probably guess better than a "6".

texman8
02-25-2006, 11:22 PM
Well, this give every HS student in America a viable chance to get into UT.

"But I scored double digits on my wonderlic test..."
Excuse me... Not every HS student can get into UT.....Actually, It is difficult to get into UT, especially School of Business.
I was accepted into UT but I got my engineering degree somewhere else. It is a very good school considering all the money it receives from PUF fund.
Everyone knows athlete's courseload can be (ahem) adjusted.
If his score is true; this will hurt him some...He will still get drafted in 1st round.

tulexan
02-25-2006, 11:26 PM
I wonder what Reggie scored. I'm guessing well above a six.

Dr. Toro
02-25-2006, 11:32 PM
He's a professional now... so the kid gloves are off, but I hope this doesn't get blown out of proportion. He's been a very successful and efficient college quarterback. Being a QB requires plenty of homework, pattern recognition, focus, memorization, and on the fly decision making. It does not require brilliance; dedication can overcome most deficiencies. The Wonderlic isn't the be-all end-all for quarterback decision making. He could have scored that 6 and knock the socks off the Texans' brass with his ability to read a defense and man a white-board today in an interview. There's no telling, but I imagine that if this is true, it will A) badly hurt his draft status and B) stick with him until he gets to a Super Bowl.

Profootballtalk is the best NFL scoop site, but what they post doesn't always turn out to be true. I would like to see it from something other than an anonymous source.

Isn't the test multiple choice, pick all C's and you're bound to get between a 10 and 15.

*The General obviously isn't unbiased in all this... but if it's true he knows it and has an obligation to report it (unless these tests are bound by confidentiality agreements). He's in Indy, he's got contacts, he should have something about this tomorrow.

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2006, 11:35 PM
Excuse me... Not every HS student can get into UT.....Actually, It is difficult to get into UT, especially School of Business.
I was accepted into UT but I got my engineering degree somewhere else. It is a very good school considering all the money it receives from PUF fund.
Everyone knows athlete's courseload can be (ahem) adjusted.
If his score is true; this will hurt him some...He will still get drafted in 1st round.

Most of that post was meant as sarcasm. I'll post a :sarcasm: next time I assume something is blatently obvious.

Dr. Toro
02-25-2006, 11:43 PM
Good article from SB 33 on the Wonderlic

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/sbxxxii/news/wond12198.stm

"Brett could score a 10 on the test but he's still a real instinctive player and has a feel for everything on the field," one executive in personnel said. "So you can't get too carried away with it."

Neil Smith, the Broncos' six- time Pro Bowl defensive end, scored only a 4 in 1987 but still was the second player selected in the draft. However, Smith is dyslexic, a major factor that scouts take into consideration.

"If you run into a low test score then what you're probably going to do is spend some time to find out more," one scout said. "Probably try to meet him and talk to him. Can he carry on a conversation? Is he obviously dumb? Maybe it's a dyslexic thing."

Or, as Wolf put it: "To me all it is is an indicator. If it's low, then you have to discover the reason why it's low. I don't pay that much attention to it."

cuppacoffee
02-25-2006, 11:44 PM
Well, this give every HS student in America a viable chance to get into UT.

"But I scored double digits on my wonderlic test..."

You act suprised.

Any of the better football players in the state of Texas can get admitted to UT.

The graduation rate of these athletes should be embarassing to any T-sip graduate.

It's been that way since the great DKR would sign up every football player in the state of Texas to play or sit the bench at UT. I don't think there were scholorship limits at the time. That way he didn't have to play against them at other SWC schools.

Buckle up....Here they come. :redtowel:

:coffee:

Dr. Toro
02-25-2006, 11:45 PM
The results of the Wonderlic are meant to be confidential, I assume that means not shared outside of the NFL. So I doubt we'll see any major outlet pick this story up.

cuppacoffee
02-25-2006, 11:50 PM
Yes, I demand an IQ test and a CAT scan of his head.

I also demand he pass a litercy test.

I think the word you are looking for is literacy. :)

Htown34s
02-25-2006, 11:51 PM
Wow, thats very, very low.

I guess the 6 he got right were questions about football. Maybe thats all he knows.

No wonder Mack has such a good graduation rate at UT!

So, do these scores ever become public for certain or is it just a PFT "confirmation"?

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 12:04 AM
The NFL does not release the scores, they are leaked.

Interestingly enough, there is this academic study about the Wonderlic.

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No2/mac-mirabile.asp

In short the findings were, "This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation."

The gist is, after you control for passing ability, intelligence (as measured by the Wonderlic) doesn't matter in the NFL. Good passers are good passers regardless of the Wonderlic.

"My mama always used to say..."

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 12:06 AM
I think the word you are looking for is literacy. :)


haha, yeah...spelling was never one of my best subjects.

I do, however, have an excellent vocabullary and can communicate intelligently with superiors.

...but thanks...:rolleyes:

beerlover
02-26-2006, 12:08 AM
Said the source, who knows a thing or two about evaluating college players:

"I predict he'll fall all the way out of the first round."

maybe we can get both Young & Bush :stirpot:

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 12:11 AM
maybe we can get both Young & Bush :stirpot:

I've got it!!!

We get both of them, Ahmad Brooks in the Sup. draft, and then we can reach for M. Vick in the 3rd. We still have a third round pick to improve our O-line right?

aj.
02-26-2006, 12:31 AM
A score of 6 makes me wonder if he prepared at all, which is mind boggling considering the consequences of getting a really bad score on the test (aside from the debate whether there's any correlation between score and perfomance on the field).

I'm really beginning to wonder if Vince is getting the proper advice and guidance from his close personal friend/lawyer/agent. Even if you're not an Einstein, there are tutorials for this type of test where you can 'coach someone up' to at least low normal just by reviewing concepts and of the type of questions you see on the test. Get a 14 which is still well below average and you can answer critics by saying "Dan Marino got a 14, so what?" Get one of the lowest scores ever for such a high profile guy and - right or wrong - it can cost millions.

I just received an email from someone who's at the combine and apparently the score of 6 (at least the rumor if not the real score) is true. It will be interesting to see how Vince and Major handle the fallout from this one. First he misses Tag's party at the Super Bowl, then he forgets his jacket and tie, now this... Maybe it's his way of standing up against the system - but being a hero can be costly.

cuppacoffee
02-26-2006, 12:33 AM
The NFL does not release the scores, they are leaked.

Interestingly enough, there is this academic study about the Wonderlic.

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No2/mac-mirabile.asp

In short the findings were, "This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation."

The gist is, after you control for passing ability, intelligence (as measured by the Wonderlic) doesn't matter in the NFL. Good passers are good passers regardless of the Wonderlic.

"My mama always used to say..."


Don't doubt a word you wrote. Wonder why they bother to give the test if it doesn't matter in the NFL?

Maybe VY should have entered the passing drills and just skipped the wonderlic. idonno:

I imagine he will get at least $2 mil. per wonderlic point. :cool:


:coffee:

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 12:38 AM
profootballtalk is the National Enquirer of the NFL... if everything they said was true, Carr would either be on his way out (i.e. the Texans not picked up the option) or would be in Miami for Ricky Williams and a third-rounder.

I don't doubt that it's a legitimate rumor making its way around the combine. What I doubt is that it's been confirmed. It might not be on ESPN because the results aren't ever made official, but other rumor sites would/will be all over this if that's the case. Let's wait until that happens before we make too much of a rumor from the incredibly inaccurate PFT.

Wharton
02-26-2006, 12:39 AM
Average scores by position:
Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16

The average scores in other professions look like this:
Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15

I knew it, offensive lineman are the smartest position on the field. :redtowel:

beerlover
02-26-2006, 12:43 AM
please tell me this is a early April Fools joke and that some hyperbolic leak does not mean VY is not the Texans savior :spy:

on the other hand how else do you explain Vince could be so unaffected by events transpired on the gridiron this past season, literally unconsious :superman:

cuppacoffee
02-26-2006, 12:57 AM
haha, yeah...spelling was never one of my best subjects.

I do, however, have an excellent vocabullary and can communicate intelligently with superiors.

...but thanks...:rolleyes:

Keep working on that vocabulary and some day you will be the superior...:rolleyes:

You are welcome.

:jk:

I need a little joviality in my life. I've been taking all this MB arguing to seriously.

:coffee:

Nighthawk
02-26-2006, 01:09 AM
. . . with this now confirmed test score of a 6...I will lable VY now.

You're gonna "lable" him, are you?

LBC_Justin
02-26-2006, 01:49 AM
The more I think about it, if this "6" is true this is going to kill his draft position.

What he didn't do in college:
Take very many snaps under center.
Have to read a defense while dropping back.

What Mack Brown did do for him:
Let him make less decisions and run more often.
Dumb down the offense.

Lets face it the guy became a Texas hero by his athletic abilities, not because he read a defense.

Will he develop into a great pocket passer? who knows but at this point he is a higher risk and his stock has to be falling fast. If Aaron Rogers dropped into the 20's last year, I would not be shocked to see Vince Young drop out of the top 10. Heck before the Rose bowl he wasn't a top 10 pick.

PS: Hook'em Horns!!! I still love ya Vince.

texman8
02-26-2006, 02:27 AM
Most of that post was meant as sarcasm. I'll post a :sarcasm: next time I assume something is blatently obvious.
I figured you were being sarcastic and not being totally serious. It gave me an opportunity to make my point. There are different standards for us,regular students and athletes, especially the elite ones when it comes to being accepted into college and making the grades.

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 08:35 AM
haha, yeah...spelling was never one of my best subjects.

I do, however, have an excellent vocabullary and can communicate intelligently with superiors.

...but thanks...:rolleyes:

I think the word you are looking for is vocabulary (oh, and label rather than lable). j/k Sorry, couldn't resist as a follow up.

Kaiser Toro
02-26-2006, 09:04 AM
With all of the conspiracies being solved on this thread due to VY scoring a 6 on the test I am surpirsed no one has linked him to Al-Qaeda.

Awful management, awful preparation from VY and his team. This is inexcusable and it will hurt his draft status. It has nothing to do with how he will play on the field or how he will lead. In fact I would venture to guess that he will become one of the largest value picks in the draft.

The question that no one has asked on this thread surprisingly is that what does it do for our trade down possibilities? Lot of guys out there are more interested in bad mouthing a kid than thinking about the Texans draft implications.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 09:31 AM
I think the word you are looking for is vocabulary (oh, and label rather than lable). j/k Sorry, couldn't resist as a follow up.

Curses!!

I'm just going to type as Vince would talk. Everyone can understand 2nd grade vocab. (notice I cut the word down so I wouldn't have to spell it!)

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 09:31 AM
The question that no one has asked on this thread surprisingly is that what does it do for our trade down possibilities? Lot of guys out there are more interested in bad mouthing a kid than thinking about the Texans draft implications.

Don't think it has any impact on our trade down possibilities. Haven't heard of any team in the league trading up to get anyone other than Leinart for the most part, maybe a few Bush mentions. Have you seen any dicsussion of a team trading up to get VY?

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 09:31 AM
You're gonna "lable" him, are you?

Yes, and I did later in that post.

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 09:32 AM
This is everyone's daily reminder (from now on) that the only source reporting this 6 is a tabloid website with a history of being incredibly unreliable. You guys are wasting a lot of time debating something that's the equivalent of a National Enquirer story.

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 09:35 AM
Curses!!

I'm just going to type as Vince would talk. Everyone can understand 2nd grade vocab. (notice I cut the word down so I wouldn't have to spell it!)

Geez, good to see a little humor return to the MB. :thumbup

Unfortunately, now that you cut the word down for ease of spelling, someone else is going to ask, "what's a vocab.?"

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 09:36 AM
This is everyone's daily reminder (from now on) that the only source reporting this 6 is a tabloid website with a history of being incredibly unreliable. You guys are wasting a lot of time debating something that's the equivalent of a National Enquirer story.

Well then give us something new to argue about. This is just my entertainment in between the combine coverage.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 09:37 AM
Geez, good to see a little humor return to the MB. :thumbup

Unfortunately, now that you cut the word down for ease of spelling, someone else is going to ask, "what's a vocab.?"


Yes, but you using your "lawyer" talk will not help solve anything and will not allow me to understad any better!! :)

Wharton
02-26-2006, 09:42 AM
ESPN has just announced that it has retained a copy of Vince Young's official Wonderlic scorecard and has discovered some peculiarities. Well, see for yourself:
1. ○○○○● 26. ○○●○○
2. ○○○●○ 27. ○●●●○
3. ○○○●○ 28. ●○○○●
4. ○○○●○ 29. ○○○○○
5. ○○●○○ 30. ●●○○●
6. ●○○○○ 31. ●○●○●
7. ●○○○○ 32. ●○○●●
8. ○○●○○ 33. ○○○○○
9. ○○○●○ 34. ●●●●●
10. ○○○●○ 35. ○○●○○
11. ○○○●○ 36. ●●●●●
12. ○○○○● 37. ○○○○○
13. ○○○○○ 38. ○○○○●
14. ●●●●● 39. ○○○●○
15. ○○●○○ 40. ○○○●○
16. ○○●○○ 41. ○○○●○
17. ○○○○○ 42. ○○●○○
18. ●●●●● 43. ●○○○○
19. ●●●○○ 44. ●○○○○
20. ●●●●● 45. ○○●○○
21. ○○○○○ 46. ○○○●○
22. ●○○○● 47. ○○○●○
23. ○○●○○ 48. ○○○●○
24. ●○○○● 49. ○○○○●
25. ○○○○○ 50. ○○○○○
Im a VY supporter but, the Aggie in me just couldnt help but make a joke of this.:stooges:

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 09:46 AM
will not allow me to understad any better!! :)

I'd like to buy an N, please.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 09:48 AM
I'd like to buy an N, please.


AHHHH!!!


I'd like to buy "hooked on phonics" please.

Runner
02-26-2006, 09:49 AM
That is a pretty poor score if true, but bad preparation can effect it. This is not a "right minus wrong" kind of test. A person should look at the question, and if they don't immediately know the answer guess one and move on. Fifty questions, five choices - that would be a ten on average. If you guess on the harder ones and get the easier ones you should do better than that.

I think, but I don't know, that the player can choose to take the test again.

Runner
02-26-2006, 09:51 AM
AHHHH!!!


I'd like to buy "hooked on phonics" please.

But English izn't vary fonetik.

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 09:52 AM
AHHHH!!!

I'd like to buy "hooked on phonics" please.

C'mon--it had to be done in that situation.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 10:04 AM
I was floored when I read this ..... unbelievable ..... this is as much of an indictment of VY's management as it is of his intelligence .... on a side note my 7 year old made a 15 but his 40 time sucks ....

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 10:04 AM
C'mon--it had to be done in that situation.

Not saying it didn't, as I would be doing it too, but I'm off to a "slow" start today.

(Notice the double entendre implied about Vince.)

Harrisment
02-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Ok guys, the Vince Wonderlic score is true. I emailed John McClain who is at the combine and he just replied to me. Here it is, my original email is at the bottom:
-----------------------------------

On 2/26/06, McClain, John wrote:

True. You can read about in the Chronicle Monday. He can take it as much as he wants, but even if he doubles it, a 12 Wonderlic score isn't good enough to be a starting QB in the NFL.

________________________________

From: Harrisment [mailto:*****@gmail.com]
Sent: Sun 2/26/2006 8:58 AM
To: McClain, John
Subject: Vince Wonderlic Score


John,

The rumor that is making its way around the net is that Vince has scored a 6 on his Wonderlic test. Since you are at the Combine, can you confirm what his score was? Also if true, do you think that hurts his draft stock?

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 10:05 AM
I was floored when I read this ..... unbelievable ..... this is as much of an indictment of VY's management as it is of his intelligence .... on a side note my 7 year old made a 15 but his 40 time sucks ....

haha

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 10:13 AM
7 year old made a 15 but his 40 time sucks ....

I tied mine to our boxer, but I am not sure they will allow that at the combine.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 10:14 AM
I tied mine to our boxer, but I am not sure they will allow that at the combine.

tied it too him??

maybe its just early, but that was over my head.

Vinny
02-26-2006, 10:31 AM
Dan Marino's stock dropped with his 13 test score. I'm sure the Chiefs were happy with the much 'smarter' Todd Blackledge when they picked him over that dope Marino.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 10:33 AM
Dan Marino's stock dropped with his 13 test score. I'm sure the Chiefs were happy with the much 'smarter' Todd Blackledge when they picked him over that dope Marino.


True, we can find examples that point out how the test isn't a true indicator of future NFL success, but what's your take on it? Does this change your opinion of what the Texans should do?

Vinny
02-26-2006, 10:41 AM
True, we can find examples that point out how the test isn't a true indicator of future NFL success, but what's your take on it? Does this change your opinion of what the Texans should do?donno...6 is pretty awful. I've mentioned privately to a few folks who will read this that I didn't think Young was all that bright over the last month or so...so this really doesn't shock me too much (I was thinking 10-15 range though). For instance, Steve McNair didn't strike me as too bright when the Oilers drafted him out of Alcorn State. I remember my Father in Law arguing for Kerry Collins due to the "QB smarts" factor....and I see Vince with the same area mentally as I do McNair. I think if Steve McNair can figure it out, so can Young. I've mentioned in a few other places that I think we draft Bush...so that hasn't changed in my mind.

Frankly I feel kind of bad for Young but he's gonna be a rich man and probably doesn't care too much what some people think. I know some folks that aren't naturally gifted when it came to critical thinking and general "smarts" and hate to see people running around kicking them and calling them stupid for testing poorly. It's classless.

FirstTexansFan
02-26-2006, 10:42 AM
According to Pro Football Talk, the word at the Combine is that Vince Young scored a 6 out of 50 on the Wonderlic.

Yet, somehow, his defenders try to rationalize this? Way to go Einstien's! :)

Said the source, who knows a thing or two about evaluating college players:

"I predict he'll fall all the way out of the first round."

Coach Mac, "Hey Vince, we're going to run a double right Charlie 10 pigeon...got it?"

VY: "Yeah coach, got it, run a six"

Coach Mac to the offensive coordinator "Ok guy, change all the play numbers in the book to six, I think we've found how to make him successful"

LOL

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 10:45 AM
tied it too him??

maybe its just early, but that was over my head.

Attached the child to the boxer--keep up or be dragged. It was poor joke anyway.

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 10:48 AM
donno...6 is pretty awful. I've mentioned privately to a few folks who will read this that I didn't think Young was all that bright over the last month or so...so this really doesn't shock me too much (I was thinking 10-15 range though). For instance, Steve McNair didn't strike me as too bright when the Oilers drafted him out of Alcorn State. I remember my Father in Law arguing for Kerry Collins due to the "QB smarts" factor....and I see Vince with the same area mentally as I do McNair. I think if Steve McNair can figure it out, so can Young. I've mentioned in a few other places that I think we draft Bush...so that hasn't changed in my mind.

Frankly I feel kind of bad for Young but he's gonna be a rich man and probably doesn't care too much what some people think. I know some folks that aren't naturally gifted when it came to critical thinking and general "smarts" and hate to see people running around kicking them and calling them stupid for testing poorly. It's classless.

Won't happen, but I wish his (for the Texans' sake not his) stock would plummet. Bush or a trade down in the 1st, VY at #33. Now that would be interesting.

Carr Bombed
02-26-2006, 10:48 AM
Don't think it has any impact on our trade down possibilities. Haven't heard of any team in the league trading up to get anyone other than Leinart for the most part, maybe a few Bush mentions. Have you seen any dicsussion of a team trading up to get VY?

^ thats true, even though we have the #1 ovrl. pick in this draft, the team that has all the leverage is New Orleans. The #2 pick in the draft has alot of value, simply due to the fact that we signed Carr to a extension and its widely expected were going to take Bush and with Edge and Shaun possibly being on the market and the depth at RB this year, there isn't a whole lot of people wanting to move up.

Plus with the fact that New Orleans, Tennessee, and the Jets all needing QBs I doubt there is to many teams willing to move down. I do see Vince falling however and if thats the case that only hurts the value of our pick, since teams will be willing to take a gamble to see if he falls.

The top of the draft seems pretty set. Houston will draft Reggie of trade down, but I don't think they'll have a partner to trade down with. New Orleans will take Matt Lienart, and Tennessee will take either Vince or Cuttler, but after this test and after reading other reports and the fact that Jeff Fisher coached Cutler, I wouldn't be surprised is they bypassed Vince and took Cutler.

The Jets seem like they would be willing to make a deal depending on how the Pennington situation turns out. Vince could free fall in this draft if the top 4 teams pass on him.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 10:49 AM
Ok guys, the Vince Wonderlic score is true. I emailed John McClain who is at the combine and he just replied to me. Here it is, my original email is at the bottom:
-----------------------------------

On 2/26/06, McClain, John wrote:

True. You can read about in the Chronicle Monday. He can take it as much as he wants, but even if he doubles it, a 12 Wonderlic score isn't good enough to be a starting QB in the NFL.

________________________________

From: Harrisment [mailto:*****@gmail.com]
Sent: Sun 2/26/2006 8:58 AM
To: McClain, John
Subject: Vince Wonderlic Score


John,

The rumor that is making its way around the net is that Vince has scored a 6 on his Wonderlic test. Since you are at the Combine, can you confirm what his score was? Also if true, do you think that hurts his draft stock?

Did you copy and paste exactly?

chuckm
02-26-2006, 10:56 AM
check back at the profootballtalk.com web site ...

they have a follow-up article proposing that Vince'll change management ....

Harrisment
02-26-2006, 10:57 AM
Did you copy and paste exactly?

Yes, exactly. Except for the fact that I edited out my email address.

Htown34s
02-26-2006, 11:12 AM
All of the misspellings on a thread knocking a low Wonderlich score is too ironic for me. Stop, I can't take anymore.

Or should I say anymoor.

PapaL
02-26-2006, 11:14 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/VinceEinstein.jpg

Maybe he'll change his jersey number to match his score?

Harrisment
02-26-2006, 11:15 AM
All of the misspellings on a thread knocking a low Wonderlich score is too ironic for me. Stop, I can't take anymore.

Or should I say anymoor.

It's Wonderlic, not Wonderlich.

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 11:24 AM
All of the misspellings on a thread knocking a low Wonderlich score is too ironic for me. Stop, I can't take anymore.

Or should I say anymoor.
ROFL, that was my thought exactly.

But I did take a course from the Evln Woodhead sped reding corse. It make me red much beter and fast. Now I dont sem so much lik a dumy nemore.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 11:28 AM
Plus with the fact that New Orleans, Tennessee, and the Jets all needing QBs I doubt there is to many teams willing to move down. I do see Vince falling however and if thats the case that only hurts the value of our pick, since teams will be willing to take a gamble to see if he falls.

The top of the draft seems pretty set. Houston will draft Reggie of trade down, but I don't think they'll have a partner to trade down with. New Orleans will take Matt Lienart, and Tennessee will take either Vince or Cuttler, but after this test and after reading other reports and the fact that Jeff Fisher coached Cutler, I wouldn't be surprised is they bypassed Vince and took Cutler.

The Jets seem like they would be willing to make a deal depending on how the Pennington situation turns out. Vince could free fall in this draft if the top 4 teams pass on him.

Vince will not freefall like suggested. Arizona and Oakland are both very likely to take him if he slips.

I am not sold on Tenn. taking Young or Cutler. I still believe that if we do not take Fergueson, they will. I said that BEFORE young took this test.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 11:29 AM
All of the misspellings on a thread knocking a low Wonderlich score is too ironic for me. Stop, I can't take anymore.

Or should I say anymoor.

Pretty funny when you have misspellings also buddy. :ok:

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2006, 11:35 AM
Does anyone know what Omar Jacobs scored?

utahmark
02-26-2006, 11:41 AM
maybe we could get him with our first pick in the second round?

just trying to give some hope to the longhorn faithful.

BREAZE
02-26-2006, 11:47 AM
I bet he is the 1st to score a 6 after single handedly winning a championship...the guy breaks records from all angles.

Lucky
02-26-2006, 11:52 AM
I'm not going to waste much time on this ridiculous subject, but the Wonderlic score means squat. Squat. Any team that's interested in drafting Vince Young will watch tape with him and go over defensive formations and protection schemes. How Vince fares in the Q&As (and what he's shown on tape) will determine the NFL's opinion of Young as a QB prospect.

nunusguy
02-26-2006, 11:53 AM
Won't happen, but I wish his (for the Texans' sake not his) stock would plummet. Bush or a trade down in the 1st, VY at #33. Now that would be interesting.
Nope, that's still no good. If we took him at #33, #66, #99, or whatever we'd
still have all the local Longhorns crying & whining to get him in the game as
soon as Carr thru his first interception (or maybe just his first incompletion).

tulexan
02-26-2006, 11:58 AM
Won't it be funny when we pass Vince at 33 for his teammate Jonathan Scott?


j/k

Carr Bombed
02-26-2006, 12:03 PM
Vince will not freefall like suggested. Arizona and Oakland are both very likely to take him if he slips.

I am not sold on Tenn. taking Young or Cutler. I still believe that if we do not take Fergueson, they will. I said that BEFORE young took this test. With Arozona inking a new contract with Warner I think they would pass on Young. (I think they are in the win now mode with a vetern QB and the young talented receivers they have.) I do agree with you that Young at Oakland seems reasonable, but like I said I also wouldn't be surprised is Young happened to slip down the draft.

cuppacoffee
02-26-2006, 12:25 PM
[QUOTE=Htown34s]All of the misspellings on a thread knocking a low Wonderlich score is too ironic for me. Stop, I can't take anymore.

Just having a 'lighter' discussion than what has been happening around here since the Rose Bowl.

YoungTexanFan is being a sport about it. :ok:
Nothing malicious, it's all in good fun.:cool:

Without aol's research and learn dictionary I would be in serious trouble when it comes to spelling.

I will refrain from questioning VYs intelligence. I have never taken the test so I really wouldn't know how it's related to intelligence.

Regardless of his test score he will soon be a wealthy young man.

:coffee:

CoastalTexan
02-26-2006, 12:38 PM
This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. All the UT homers lover boy turned out to be well, dumb. If the whole NFL thing doesn't go for him he can't join the Army, you gotta take a test and its most likely harder than the Wunderlic. He can always pull a Cartman on South Park and go to the Special Olympics, he might not have to act as hard to be handicapped as Cartman did though.:stirpot:

FirstTexansFan
02-26-2006, 12:48 PM
http://www.myweb.net/~aggie/forumpics/myareacode.jpg

aj.
02-26-2006, 01:01 PM
Dan Marino did not run a High School type Offense in college. He proved he could read a Defense he did not just have one read then run.

In other words, Marino's low test score didn't mean anything when it came to his ability to read defenses - but of course, Vince's low test score means everything when it comes to him being unable to read defenses. :rolleyes:

I'm not defending Vince, he's a fool for letting this happen, but there's plenty of QBs in and out of the league with good scores on the W-test who haven't amounted to diddly.

texan_b
02-26-2006, 01:15 PM
all I know is we may not take him he may fall a bit but I know the cowboys would probably try and get him regardless(godforbid).. well it just got easier on the texans pr wise to pass on vince

cuppacoffee
02-26-2006, 01:28 PM
This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. All the UT homers lover boy turned out to be well, dumb. If the whole NFL thing doesn't go for him he can't join the Army, you gotta take a test and its most likely harder than the Wunderlic. He can always pull a Cartman on South Park and go to the Special Olympics, he might not have to act as hard to be handicapped as Cartman did though.:stirpot:


I have been pro Bush anti Young all along as it pertains to the draft.

I also have enjoyed flaming the T-Sippers/Young proponents here.

But you should consider this:

The NFL will make Young a wealthy young man if he never takes a snap in a regular season game. Probably get more $ in a signing bonus than many of us will make in our entire lives.

I am sure, or at least I hope so, that your reference to the special olympics and the handicapped...well... were meant in jest. However: Some things should be off limits when it comes to humor.

Another thing comes to mind here:

Vince Young should serve as a reminder of the shortcomings of our public school systems and the U of T athletic department (win first, educate second). Not all of their students and student/athletes will fare as well as Young....:soapbox:


Just my...:twocents:

:coffee:

HJam72
02-26-2006, 01:28 PM
I might have missed somebody talking about this, but what do we do if VY is still available to us LATER in the first, or second round? Don't we have another low first round pick? I'd hate to pass on him that low. I gotta be honest here--I don't think you have to be very smart at all to be a football player and I think that's what it really comes down to. I've heard the arguments that you do have to be, but I'm just not even slightly convinced of it.

donte wurree Vins weel steel take u itull just b inn thee secund rownd :ok:

Huse tha Hise Man knoww? :redtowel: (I know--I'm so classy.) :pigfly:

rmartin65
02-26-2006, 01:39 PM
This is some crazy stuff. Listening to some of the VY interviews, I believe it.

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 01:41 PM
Now ProFootballtalk is saying the NFL thinks there may have been some administrative error with Young's test. Like, he answered the questions the wrong way or something... I have no idea. But either they or the NFL seem to be doing some backtracking with this whole Wonderlic thing.

I have no idea what the problem could have been, maybe he got off track filling out the bubbles (that's happened to me before).

stevo3883
02-26-2006, 01:47 PM
its pretty sad how every aggy jumped on this thread to just bash ut/vince.


grow up

wags
02-26-2006, 01:50 PM
Dan Marino's stock dropped with his 13 test score. I'm sure the Chiefs were happy with the much 'smarter' Todd Blackledge when they picked him over that dope Marino.

Wasn't Blackledge drafted higher because of his bowl performances and leading his team to a national title?

Mr. White
02-26-2006, 01:56 PM
Yet, somehow, his defenders try to rationalize this? Way to go Einstien's! :)


Einstien's what? You mean Einstein's Bagels???

Oh, you must be calling VY homers "Einsteins."

Must be an Aggie.

......lol.....

nunusguy
02-26-2006, 01:57 PM
Now ProFootballtalk is saying the NFL thinks there may have been some administrative error with Young's test. Like, he answered the questions the wrong way or something... I have no idea. But either they or the NFL seem to be doing some backtracking with this whole Wonderlic thing.
I have no idea what the problem could have been, maybe he got off track filling out the bubbles (that's happened to me before).
You mean something like the Chads snafu in Florida with the Bush-Gore election ?

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 02:20 PM
I bet he is the 1st to score a 6 after single handedly winning a championship...the guy breaks records from all angles.
You are saying, that Vince Dumb will be the first QB coming out of college this year to throw the first TD in the NFL?

If you are, I will take that bet any day of the week. My bet is he will not even start a game for an NFL team next season period... If he even starts in his 2nd year....

C Madd
02-26-2006, 02:28 PM
Now ProFootballtalk is saying the NFL thinks there may have been some administrative error with Young's test. Like, he answered the questions the wrong way or something... I have no idea. But either they or the NFL seem to be doing some backtracking with this whole Wonderlic thing.

I have no idea what the problem could have been, maybe he got off track filling out the bubbles (that's happened to me before).
Wouldn't that say something in itself? He can't fill out the answers to a simple test correctly?

CoastalTexan
02-26-2006, 02:29 PM
He's saying score a 6 on the test I think. But that is another way to look at it, 6=touchdown yay I'm Vince Young yay!

run-david-run
02-26-2006, 02:31 PM
Does anyone else know anything about the supposed administrative error? As dumbed down as some of the things VY says, I find it hard that any graduate of a major university scores below literate.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 02:44 PM
Vince Young's latest score: 16.

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 02:47 PM
But remember also he is NOT a UT graduate. He left school early. My best guess after listening to him speak is he was given the Old atta boy education and majored in football, not english.

FirstTexansFan
02-26-2006, 02:52 PM
its pretty sad how every aggy jumped on this thread to just bash ut/vince.


grow up

What, you can't defend him, so you're gonna blame this on a vast Aggie conspiracy again? ROFL

chuckm
02-26-2006, 02:58 PM
this may end up being a "clerical" error ...

aj.
02-26-2006, 03:00 PM
Quick ... everyone with the Vince is a dumm *** signatures go back and edit them ...hurry!

CoastalTexan
02-26-2006, 03:00 PM
Blame the infamous "hanging chad", whoa wait its a scantron right. You bubble in the circle.

gg no re
02-26-2006, 03:04 PM
Did he bubble in his social?

stevo3883
02-26-2006, 03:06 PM
What, you can't defend him, so you're gonna blame this on a vast Aggie conspiracy again? ROFL


no more like aggie insecurity.


that was just a rumor and yall took it and ran with it. even making photoshop pictures. its really sad how much you envy the university of texas.


whats his score now? a 16? don't yall look stupid now.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 03:06 PM
To expand on my previous post, I e-mailed John McClain, and he said that Vince had taken the test again today, he scored a 16, and he'll be taking the test again several more times before the draft. Like he told Harrisment, it will all be covered in his column on Monday.

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 03:07 PM
don't yall look stupid now.
Only if we draft him..... ;-}

Texans_Chick
02-26-2006, 03:10 PM
Does anyone else know anything about the supposed administrative error? As dumbed down as some of the things VY says, I find it hard that any graduate of a major university scores below literate.


Yeah, I kinda figured it was some sorta error.

The smartest guy I know always despised intelligence testing. In high school, they made us take a test to see what our IQs were. My friend was kinda of a goody goody, but as a minor protest, he decided to get every question on the test wrong.

Basically, even if you can't read, and are just filling things in randomly, you will get some right.

Well, he got every single question on the test wrong. And boy howdy, his mom (a teacher at our school) was really steamed. An impressive feat.

I am guessing you would score higher than 6 if you were filling out the form randomly.

That being said, I want it to be on record that I was the first person on the MB to question VY's choice of management. I thought it was a mistake when it was first announced, and it may end up being an illustration of how you can sometimes lose money by trying to save money.

CoastalTexan
02-26-2006, 03:12 PM
He wont have a 2nd or 3rd try in the Super Bowl with 4th and goal, 10 seconds left, down by 6. Ok thats a little melodramatic but hey my school TxState, lost in the semifinals in similar fashion.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 03:16 PM
He wont have a 2nd or 3rd try in the Super Bowl with 4th and goal, 10 seconds left, down by 6. Ok thats a little melodramatic but hey my school TxState, lost in the semifinals in similar fashion.

Watching both Rose Bowls and the Ohio State game, do you really think that's a problem? lol

FirstTexansFan
02-26-2006, 03:17 PM
I know he scored a six, YOU know he scored a six, but his lawyers said lawsuit for releasing that information, magical clerical error, now he has a sixteen. Talk about a conspiracy, the coverup is ON! LOL

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 03:20 PM
Yeah... 16 isn't bad. Nobody thought he was a rocket scientist or even a cerebral QB for that matter. He's an instinctive football player and a fantastic athlete. Yeah, it's great to have a guy with a 40... but the academic journal i posted found no correlation between the Wonderlic and draft placement, compensation, college or NFL passing performance.

Now, if he played football like a moron, that would be another matter, but he's been pretty friggin' good on the gridiron. It's not like he's out there pulling Aaron Brooks backward throws or exhibiting horrible clock management. He will face the challenges of any NFL quarterback (and maybe more, learning that athleticism won't always get you out of trouble at the next level). So until he starts playing like a fool, I won't consider him a fool.

Whereas before I stuck up for his management, I will now say that some of the gaffes and ill-preparation exhibited in recent weeks are probably indicative of awful management. Unless VY was prepared and just made some stupid mistake like misfilling the bubbles, he needs to get a real agent. He gave his people their shot, and if they are at all responsible for this, he needs to move on.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2006, 03:24 PM
He doesn't have to know how many people he would take with him on a train if it was traveling 10 mph and it was going into a East wind. He just has to know how to play football. I'm sure he will have no problem with the playbook and all. I am assuming this is all bunk anyways because there isn't a person out there that has him out of the Top 10.

ComstockLode
02-26-2006, 03:24 PM
ESPN radio reported that an NFL official told them that the 6 score never happened. His score was a 16.

Good ole pro football talk. A step below tabloid journalism.

rmartin65
02-26-2006, 03:31 PM
16 is a 32%. Thats not so hot.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 03:36 PM
16 is a 32%. Thats not so hot.

Not hot, but expected. And it means nothing, IMO, if you notice the randomness of scores from great and not-so-great QBs of the past.

My high-40s score isn't going to shoot me up the draft board, lol.

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 03:43 PM
16 is Marino, McNabb, McNair territory. It's also Tee Martin, Jeff George, Vinny Testaverde territory.

Chris Simms got a 22 with all that pedigree and Gruden thought he was like the savviest QB ever.

These scores don't mean a whole lot. Performance and winning are the most important measurables.

TexansFanatic
02-26-2006, 03:46 PM
Young's test result a wonder to scouts

Texas quarterback Vince Young isn't working out at the NFL Combine, but if the buzz here yesterday is true, he may have hurt his draft status significantly without throwing a football.

With pro prospects running and jumping inside the RCA Dome, word outside began to spread that Young scored a six on the Wonderlic test given to prospects.

The 12-minute, 50-multiple choice question test is just one factor teams look at when gauging a player's intelligence. The average score for an NFL prospect is roughly 19.

The NFL doesn't make Wonderlic scores public.

Most draft experts viewed Young as a Top 3 pick. A low Wonderlic score, however, could result in him sliding in the draft if teams believe he is not capable of grasping the myriad of responsibilities of an NFL quarterback.

Players are allowed to take the test multiple times, so Young could take the test again. Word is USC quarterback Matt Leinart scored a 35 on the test, while the results for Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler were unknown. Cutler scored in the upper-20s on the test before the NFL Combine.

BuffSoldier
02-26-2006, 03:49 PM
already been posted in the combine/draft area.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 04:03 PM
so what's the latest story?

took it yesterday and made a 6, re-took today and made a 16?

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 04:10 PM
Quick ... everyone with the Vince is a dumm *** signatures go back and edit them ...hurry!

Do you ever find that the MB is kind of like being at the beach?--watching the tide come in and go.

This really changes nothing no matter what the score. VY can play football but is going to need an O tailored to him rather than an idea that he is going to come in and learn a system. No shocker there in any regard. Bush will have to have an O tailored to best suit him as well. Frankly, AJ should have had an O tailored more to him the last few years, but folks who couldn't figure that out are gone now. Big time talent requires adaptation.

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 04:17 PM
Do you ever find that the MB is kind of like being at the beach?--watching the tide come in and go.

This really changes nothing no matter what the score. VY can play football but is going to need an O tailored to him rather than an idea that he is going to come in and learn a system. No shocker there in any regard. Bush will have to have an O tailored to best suit him as well. Frankly, AJ should have had an O tailored more to him the last few years, but folks who couldn't figure that out are gone now. Big time talent requires adaptation.

Couldn't agree more. What if Marshall Faulk had never gone to St. Louis? Would we be saying, "You don't draft Bush because he's a type of guy you have to do novel stuff with. He might have been able to line up as a WR in college but it won't work in the NFL." These are unique talents, and to some extent unprecedented talents, that shouldn't be cited as a negative.

texan279
02-26-2006, 04:33 PM
LINK (http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/article.jsp?id=6921)

Sunday, February 26:

3:45 p.m.

Charlie Casserly, Houston Texans GM, at the podium behind myself and Matt right now. One of the first questions? Did Vince Young really score a six on the Wonerlic?

According to Casserly, who referred to a 'reliable source,' it's a definite no. Young did not score a six on the Wonderlic.

So that's the latest.

texan279
02-26-2006, 04:42 PM
Now this from www.kffl.com

NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.


I don't think anyone has any idea on what is going on there...

Huge
02-26-2006, 04:44 PM
Oops.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 04:45 PM
Now this from www.kffl.com

NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.


I don't think anyone has any idea on what is going on there...

This would be a good reason to make combine results more public.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 04:46 PM
I don't think anyone has any idea on what is going on there...

Whether you're in the Young, Bush, or trade down camp you have to agree with this .....

aj.
02-26-2006, 04:52 PM
Do you ever find that the MB is kind of like being at the beach?--watching the tide come in and go.



Yeah but there's a certain beauty around the ebb and flow of the tide.

The imagery that comes to me involves flying insects around a bug zapper, lemmings, cliffs, a Three Stooges marathon, South Park, and the marching band in the final scene of Animal House.

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 05:10 PM
"Combine official screwed up Vince's Wonderlic"

Headline from Profootballtalk.com

Young's test has been re-scored.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Tulip
02-26-2006, 05:12 PM
"Combine official screwed up Vince's Wonderlic"

Headline from Profootballtalk.com

Young's test has been re-scored.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Maybe they put the wrong key in the scantron machine.

Dr. Toro
02-26-2006, 05:25 PM
Simply amazing. If the latest word from PFT is true (Miami Herald did say several teams confirmed the original 6), this is the most ridiculous thing ever. Seriously, I would check and re-check until I was absolutely positive the guy got a 6 before I leaked anything.

Paragon Blue
02-26-2006, 05:30 PM
Texans | Casserly comments about Young's Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:14:44 -0800

Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly said at the NFL Combine Sunday, Feb. 26, he had heard about Texas QB Vince Young's score on the Wonderlic test. He also said he heard from a good source that the test results were inaccurate. "Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it," said Casserly. He was asked how the test would impact the Texans opinion of Young and he replied, "Well, I can only speak for the Houston Texans. I can't speak for 31 other teams. I just said how we evaluate it. It doesn't make any difference what the test score is to us. We're going to go through the same evaluation. I could point to players that have high test scores but couldn't necessarily learn football. So you go through that process, and then we'll evaluate that player's ability to learn our system at the end of it."

run-david-run
02-26-2006, 05:41 PM
Wow, this is ineptitude to the point of comedy (I guess this fits our Texans this season). Somebody, put an end to the madness!!!

aj.
02-26-2006, 05:44 PM
Texans | Casserly comments about Young's Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:14:44 -0800

Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly said at the NFL Combine Sunday, Feb. 26, he had heard about Texas QB Vince Young's score on the Wonderlic test. He also said he heard from a good source that the test results were inaccurate. "Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it," said Casserly. He was asked how the test would impact the Texans opinion of Young and he replied, "Well, I can only speak for the Houston Texans. I can't speak for 31 other teams. I just said how we evaluate it. It doesn't make any difference what the test score is to us. We're going to go through the same evaluation. I could point to players that have high test scores but couldn't necessarily learn football. So you go through that process, and then we'll evaluate that player's ability to learn our system at the end of it."

Go get 'em Charley, you da man!

Signed,

Tony Hollings
Tony Boselli
Jason Babin
Todd Wade
Gary Walker
Morlon Greenwood
Dave Ragone
Keanu Reeves
Phillip Buchanon
Mrs. Casserly

uteric3232
02-26-2006, 05:59 PM
oh well aggies, you had fun for a little while....pathetic.....

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 06:05 PM
The imagery that comes to me involves flying insects around a bug zapper, lemmings, cliffs, a Three Stooges marathon, South Park, and the marching band in the final scene of Animal House.

My image is always a monkey fornicating a football. That one will haunt you. I actually saw it acted out with a jet ski one time--still gives me shivers.

Texans86
02-26-2006, 06:09 PM
So who is calling for a recount? Do the players have to punch holes in a scantron. There might be some hanging chads involved. The fate of the nation could hang in the balance of this test score.

chuckm
02-26-2006, 06:18 PM
My image is always a monkey fornicating a football. That one will haunt you. I actually saw it acted out with a jet ski one time--still gives me shivers.


ok .... I may need a lobotomy now ....

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 06:25 PM
ok .... I may need a lobotomy now ....

The hard part was being across the canal in Galveston and not laughing so loud they could hear. I wore out two pillows and a small dog on that one. Don't ask what happened to the dog.

Mr. White
02-26-2006, 06:29 PM
Damn, this thread got quiet. I guess all the trolls went back under the bridge.

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 06:34 PM
This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. All the UT homers lover boy turned out to be well, dumb. If the whole NFL thing doesn't go for him he can't join the Army, you gotta take a test and its most likely harder than the Wunderlic. He can always pull a Cartman on South Park and go to the Special Olympics, he might not have to act as hard to be handicapped as Cartman did though.:stirpot:

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. All the UT haters turned out to be, well, dumb. I tried to warn all of you not to jump on this story until it was confirmed by more reputable sources, but none of you listened.

Maybe you Ags can go to the Special Olympics.

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 06:37 PM
Actually, I kinda feel for the Ags... they have gotten pretty close. Supposedly Cedric Griffin and Ramonce Taylor were street thugs before the Rose Bowl who were on the verge of being arrested and suspended for the game. The rumor makes its rounds, they have 1-2 days of fun... then it just doesn't pan out. Now this. The Ags get their day of fun... then, like always, they look like complete fools for jumping the gun and not waiting until reputable sources confirmed the story.

ppppooooooooooooooooorrrrrr aggies
ppppooooooooooooooooorrrrrr aggies

chuckm
02-26-2006, 06:40 PM
I'm neither an aggie or a horn ... I believe the Texans should draft Bush or better yet trade down .... what does that make me?

nunusguy
02-26-2006, 06:53 PM
Have we had a situation where a player taking the Wonderlic got a second chance after doing miserably his first time. Does anyone know if any player has even got the opportunity to "retest", let alone if its one of the 2 most high profile jocks in one of the most high profile Drafts in decades.
I dunno.....this whole thing is not passing the "smell test".

Nighthawk
02-26-2006, 06:54 PM
Sixteen is a bit below average but not enough to shake a stick at. 17 is apparently equal to an IQ of 100, which is average IQ.

Stay tuned.

We're trading out anyway.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2006, 07:20 PM
NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.



I really, really, really hope the above is false.

And the following is probally a smoke screen or maybe not:

Texans | Casserly comments about Young's Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:14:44 -0800

Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly said at the NFL Combine Sunday, Feb. 26, he had heard about Texas QB Vince Young's score on the Wonderlic test. He also said he heard from a good source that the test results were inaccurate. "Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it," said Casserly. He was asked how the test would impact the Texans opinion of Young and he replied, "Well, I can only speak for the Houston Texans. I can't speak for 31 other teams. I just said how we evaluate it. It doesn't make any difference what the test score is to us. We're going to go through the same evaluation. I could point to players that have high test scores but couldn't necessarily learn football. So you go through that process, and then we'll evaluate that player's ability to learn our system at the end of it."


As we can all tell by the format, thanks to www.kffl.com for the info.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 07:22 PM
Have we had a situation where a player taking the Wonderlic got a second chance after doing miserably his first time. Does anyone know if any player has even got the opportunity to "retest", let alone if its one of the 2 most high profile jocks in one of the most high profile Drafts in decades.
I dunno.....this whole thing is not passing the "smell test".

The test is being re-scored - his along with everyone in his group. And yes, the test is not just available once. Of course, each testing has a different set of questions. No conspiracy here.

ETA: Teams can take or leave the Wonderlic test. They can choose the weight they give it. They can administer it themselves if they want to. The NFL Combine doesn't own the Wonderlic test. Why on earth does it matter if someone takes it once or 100 times?

Under this logic, I guess if a prospect runs the 40 at the combine, he probably won't be asked to run it again at the school's pro day. Right?

run-david-run
02-26-2006, 07:52 PM
I'm neither an aggie or a horn ... I believe the Texans should draft Bush or better yet trade down .... what does that make me?
Sane?

run-david-run
02-26-2006, 07:55 PM
The test is being re-scored - his along with everyone in his group. And yes, the test is not just available once. Of course, each testing has a different set of questions. No conspiracy here.

ETA: Teams can take or leave the Wonderlic test. They can choose the weight they give it. They can administer it themselves if they want to. The NFL Combine doesn't own the Wonderlic test. Why on earth does it matter if someone takes it once or 100 times?

Under this logic, I guess if a prospect runs the 40 at the combine, he probably won't be asked to run it again at the school's pro day. Right?
When running a 40, its always the same thing, run 40 yards as quickly as you can. Also, its a little more dependant on human error, because the coaches operate the stopwatches. If the test is differant each time, then he is being asked to perform something simmillar, but not the same thing. I would still like all the controversy to be cleared up here, what the hell happened?

Tulip
02-26-2006, 07:58 PM
Sixteen is a bit below average but not enough to shake a stick at. 17 is apparently equal to an IQ of 100, which is average IQ.

Stay tuned.

We're trading out anyway.

Well that's a pretty definitive statement, given that the Texans really can't control trading out. They are entirely dependent on other teams. And with a strong top of the draft board, our #1 slot isn't going to look that appealing to other teams, IMO.

LoneStarState
02-26-2006, 08:08 PM
We knew all along that they would shop the pick, but at the end of the day, I think we'll keep the pick.

cuppacoffee
02-26-2006, 09:30 PM
its pretty sad how every aggy jumped on this thread to just bash ut/vince.

grow up


Maybe a little UT bashing is in order.

From the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.

"It appears that many of these flagship state universities are admitting black students who are not academically qualified for even the moderately rigorous curricula at these schools. In many cases, these black athletes are admitted solely for the purpose of their participation in intercollegiate athletics. The case is strong that these flagship universities are exploiting blacks for their athletic talents while frequently ignoring their educational needs. "

Read It (http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/48_blacks_stateuniversities.html)

How did UT fare in student/athlete graduation rates? :penalty:

Black football players 33 %..
White football players 36 %


Overall student body 70 %

Scroll down to page 5. (http://www.bus.ucf.edu/sport/public/downloads/2005_Football_APR_Grad_Rate.pdf)

There is a plan in the works to penalize these poor performing football factories by reducing scholarships if the graduation rate falls below 50 %. If this rule is passed Texas may never play in another bowl game , much less play for the NC.

And I'm not an Aggie...:)

:coffee:

gg no re
02-26-2006, 09:45 PM
Does that mean we'll return to the days where Ivy League schools were national powerhouses?

I better cop me a Yale jersey.

Big B Texan Fan
02-26-2006, 10:05 PM
Maybe a little UT bashing is in order.

From the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.

"It appears that many of these flagship state universities are admitting black students who are not academically qualified for even the moderately rigorous curricula at these schools. In many cases, these black athletes are admitted solely for the purpose of their participation in intercollegiate athletics. The case is strong that these flagship universities are exploiting blacks for their athletic talents while frequently ignoring their educational needs. "

Read It (http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/48_blacks_stateuniversities.html)

How did UT fare in student/athlete graduation rates? :penalty:

Black football players 33 %..
White football players 36 %


Overall student body 70 %

Scroll down to page 5. (http://www.bus.ucf.edu/sport/public/downloads/2005_Football_APR_Grad_Rate.pdf)

There is a plan in the works to penalize these poor performing football factories by reducing scholarships if the graduation rate falls below 50 %. If this rule is passed Texas may never play in another bowl game , much less play for the NC.

And I'm not an Aggie...:)

:coffee:
I thought UT had one of the highest Grad rates of it's atheletes in the nation?

edo783
02-26-2006, 10:19 PM
From KFFL:

NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.

uteric3232
02-26-2006, 10:25 PM
From KFFL:

NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.


Good god, could u read the entire thread???? :brickwall

cuppacoffee
02-26-2006, 10:40 PM
Does that mean we'll return to the days where Ivy League schools were national powerhouses?

I better cop me a Yale jersey.



The stats I quoted were from a list of schools in this years bowl games. It makes for some interesting reading. Not one Ivy League team in the list.

USC, Penn State, Notre Dame, Texas Tech, TCU, Tulsa, Miami, Northwestern to name a few, all graduate over 50 % of their black/student athletes.

Of the ones I listed Texas Tech is the lowest at 50 %
The highest is Northwestern at a whopping 90 %.

Compare this to UT's 33%.

VY will be OK :money: regardless of his lack of a college education/degree.

What about the rest of the athletes who will not go pro and now must enter the job market, without graduating?

:coffee:

Big B Texan Fan
02-26-2006, 10:42 PM
From KFFL:

NCAA | V. Young scores low on Wonderlic test
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:01 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports there was word around the NFL Combine that Texas QB Vince Young scored a six on his Wonderlic test and scored another six on his second attempt at the test.
This has been posted about 4 times so far.

He scored a 16.

Any thing done at a combine or a pro-day is basically to prove to the scouts and the gm's and the coaches and the owners that what they had originally thought is true. What I mean is if, a 19 is the average score and VY got a 16, then that pretty much falls in line where most would place his IQ, just below average. Not that a big of a deal. Now if he were to really score that 6 or get a really high score like a 40 or something, then that'd be reason for alarm. Kinda like 40 times, if we think Bush is a 4.3 guy but can't get a 4.45 or better, than raises a few flags, or if he runs a 4.29 or faster then that raises flags as well.

They're looking for consistancy on their pre-conceived notions.

bdiddy
02-26-2006, 10:43 PM
Fox Sports includes some mention of low test in article. Not sure if this has been posted but this at least puts some validity behind the story.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5363342

Last sentence of 7th paragraph.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 10:50 PM
Fox Sports includes some mention of low test in article. Not sure if this has been posted but this at least puts some validity behind the story.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5363342

Last sentence of 7th paragraph.

That story was posted 9 hours ago.

Janus3
02-26-2006, 11:01 PM
This has been posted about 4 times so far.

He scored a 16.

Any thing done at a combine or a pro-day is basically to prove to the scouts and the gm's and the coaches and the owners that what they had originally thought is true. What I mean is if, a 19 is the average score and VY got a 16, then that pretty much falls in line where most would place his IQ, just below average. Not that a big of a deal. Now if he were to really score that 6 or get a really high score like a 40 or something, then that'd be reason for alarm. Kinda like 40 times, if we think Bush is a 4.3 guy but can't get a 4.45 or better, than raises a few flags, or if he runs a 4.29 or faster then that raises flags as well.

They're looking for consistancy on their pre-conceived notions.

so you're saying VY's score of below average was what everyone had already thought, gotcha. the test confirmed what we had all thought, he is indeed a moron.

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 11:04 PM
so you're saying VY's score of below average was what everyone had already thought, gotcha. the test confirmed what we had all thought, he is indeed a moron.

No, he's saying VY's score is ahead of that of such superstar quarterbacks as Dan Marino, Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair. If those three are morons, I hope the future quarterback of my team can be a moron just like them.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2006, 11:06 PM
This has been posted about 4 times so far.

He scored a 16.

Any thing done at a combine or a pro-day is basically to prove to the scouts and the gm's and the coaches and the owners that what they had originally thought is true. What I mean is if, a 19 is the average score and VY got a 16, then that pretty much falls in line where most would place his IQ, just below average. Not that a big of a deal. Now if he were to really score that 6 or get a really high score like a 40 or something, then that'd be reason for alarm. Kinda like 40 times, if we think Bush is a 4.3 guy but can't get a 4.45 or better, than raises a few flags, or if he runs a 4.29 or faster then that raises flags as well.

They're looking for consistancy on their pre-conceived notions.

Source's please, cause you and Nighthawk are the only ones Ive seen pimpin' the 16 score. And excuse me if I choose to ignore a pair of large *** VY homers, for the present time, unlesss you can give me a source.

Janus3
02-26-2006, 11:06 PM
I'm neither an aggie or a horn ... I believe the Texans should draft Bush or better yet trade down .... what does that make me?

smarter than both

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 11:09 PM
Source's please, cause you and Nighthawk are the only ones Ive seen pimpin' the 16 score. And excuse me if I choose to ignore a pair of large *** VY homers, for the present time, unlesss you can give me a source.

Is Lance from 610 good enough for you?

Here is what I heard and I will combine the info from both sources into one piece of info:

The person who leaked VY's score was wrong. The test had not been graded at that time. That same person was fired. Apparantly Mack Brown raised holy hell about the entire situation as he was furious that VY's score had been leaked in the first place.

The person who leaked the info had to apologize to Mack Brown and a number of people. I have heard what VY's score is but I must keep it quiet as I was given the info "off the record". The info I have is supposedly rock-solid and will be released publically when the teams get all of the player's Wunderlich scores. I can say that his score is still considered " a concern" for some NFL teams but it should also be noted that the score is higher than Hall of Fame QB Dan Marino scored on his Wunderlich test and higher than Super Bowl QBs Neil O'Donnell and Steve McNair.

Lance

Tulip
02-26-2006, 11:10 PM
Source's please, cause you and Nighthawk are the only ones Ive seen pimpin' the 16 score. And excuse me if I choose to ignore a pair of large *** VY homers, for the present time, unlesss you can give me a source.

I was the one who originally posted the 16 score. John McClain was my source.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2006, 11:14 PM
Ok, it still dosn't sound like he lite it up, but if he did score anything above 13 it shouldn't hurt his draft status.

I still find it odd that very few people are runnign with the score articel in print, unless they are confirming the score of 6.

We shall see, and time will tell and all that stuff

Big B Texan Fan
02-26-2006, 11:15 PM
so you're saying VY's score of below average was what everyone had already thought, gotcha. the test confirmed what we had all thought, he is indeed a moron.
Somewhere it has been said that a 19 is the avg.

And my definition of a moron isn't someone who is about to be a millionaire as well as the person who has just had the most thrilling performance in NCAA championship Game History as well as a Heisman finalist.

[way, way off topic rant deleted--if you have a complaint, it was infantrycak]

Tulip
02-26-2006, 11:18 PM
Ok, it still dosn't sound like he lite it up, but if he did score anything above 13 it shouldn't hurt his draft status.

I still find it odd that very few people are runnign with the score articel in print, unless they are confirming the score of 6.

We shall see, and time will tell and all that stuff

Apparently there will be a Chronicle combine article tomorrow - so maybe we'll get some answers.

DomDavis
02-26-2006, 11:35 PM
Ok, it still dosn't sound like he lite it up, but if he did score anything above 13 it shouldn't hurt his draft status.

I still find it odd that very few people are runnign with the score articel in print, unless they are confirming the score of 6.

We shall see, and time will tell and all that stuff

It's not odd at all. All the articles in print now "confirming" the score of 6 are today's newspaper articles... meaning they were put together late last night based on the information available at that time. The 16 score is new information we've just learned in the last few hours... it won't be in print until tomorrow when people start reading (and linking) tomorrow's newspaper articles.

kbourda
02-26-2006, 11:37 PM
This is so funny.

mexican_texan
02-26-2006, 11:38 PM
First of all, what makes KFFL more credible than PFT.com?

Secondly, I ask all closet aggies to come back out and be proud of their teams instead of hating UT.

Who cares about these tests anyway? As previously posted, Forrest Gump was an All-American and Bobby Boushay led a horrible team to the championship. I doubt Ben Roethlisberger is a genius.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2006, 11:45 PM
First of all, what makes KFFL more credible than PFT.com?

Secondly, I ask all closet aggies to come back out and be proud of their teams instead of hating UT.

Who cares about these tests anyway? As previously posted, Forrest Gump was an All-American and Bobby Boushay led a horrible team to the championship. I doubt Ben Roethlisberger is a genius.

KFFL does not write its own news, they just act as a relay for reportd form legitamite news sources. As for PFT, I always take whatever they say with a grain or 4 of salt.

Napa Auto Parts
02-26-2006, 11:46 PM
hmmm so if in fact vince got a 16 and dan marino and randall cuningham scored less those that mean vince is going to be better than them i think not i just think its stupid that some posters would bring this up i mean the kid showed he can play in college personally im not pro-vince im just
pro-someone else at QB.

kbourda
02-26-2006, 11:46 PM
I'll bet some of you feel like complete asses right about now.

mexican_texan
02-26-2006, 11:50 PM
KFFL does not write its own news, they just act as a relay for reportd form legitamite news sources.
including PFT

Errant Hothy
02-26-2006, 11:53 PM
including PFT

True, but PFT is not the only place reporting the 6 score, also PFT is sometimes right and sometimes out in front of everybody else, and sometimes they are not. So are Lnce, and the moron John McClain...so what is the point of this discussion?

DAMN! There is some bad grammar there, I blame it on 14 hours of work and a lack of beer lately.

mexican_texan
02-26-2006, 11:55 PM
True, but PFT is not the only place reporting the 6 score, also PFT is sometimes right and sometimes out in front of everybody else, and sometimes they are not. So are Lnce, and the moron John McClain...so what is the point of this discussion?
Aggies are dissing longhorns and anything else they can misspel

Errant Hothy
02-27-2006, 12:01 AM
Alot of people need to wake up and figure out that alot of people on this board are neither Horns fans or Aggie fans; also some people ned to get it into their heads that dissing VY does NOT make somebody anti-UT or pro-A&M. To think otherwise is huge generalization and bordering on pure ignorance. People are more complex then this; and if you cannot refrain from shoe-horning people inot groups to fit your narrow scope of reality you best find somebody who can teach you this simple fact. And if you fail there, you truly have my pity.

PS: This is not addressed at one single person, more of the board in general. Those who are guilty of the above, quite frankly, need to grow up. The rest of you make this a truly great place to discuss football, and a bunch of other random stuff.

<disengaging rant mode.

What just happened?

The Dude Abides
02-27-2006, 12:05 AM
People sure have gotten their panties in a wod over this rumor. If it's fact or fiction, how people have treated this is absolutely ludicrous. Some of you say that he got better than a 6 based on what, a magic lamp? We all know what John McClain is going to say after his past month's articles. If he did get a 6, then what's my college diploma mean when I graduate. I hope that he did get around a 19, the average, because if he didn't, then what does that mean for college education. All it does is prove that some college athletes get free rides their whole life, and that's just sad. Unless this test is proven wrong, I will have lost all respect for VY as a person, but not as an athlete. :twocents:

kbourda
02-27-2006, 12:06 AM
Alot of people need to wake up and figure out that alot of people on this board are neither Horns fans or Aggie fans; also some people ned to get it into their heads that dissing VY does NOT make somebody anti-UT or pro-A&M. To think otherwise is huge generalization and bordering on pure ignorance. People are more complex then this; and if you cannot refrain from shoe-horning people inot groups to fit your narrow scope of reality you best find somebody who can teach you this simple fact. And if you fail there, you truly have my pity.

PS: This is not addressed at one single person, more of the board in general. Those who are guilty of the above, quite frankly, need to grow up. The rest of you make this a truly great place to discuss football, and a bunch of other random stuff.

<disengaging rant mode.

What just happened?

Good comment but i'd like to add a little more to the subject. Ignorance is also dissing a person before knowing the complete facts. And BTW, the name calling is quite juvenile.

infantrycak
02-27-2006, 12:06 AM
Aggies are dissing longhorns and anything else they can misspel

Seriously folks--in a thread about test taking, it is time to check the spelling.

Is there anything more ironic than misspelling misspell?--of course there is but c'mon y'all. Wait, shouldn't that be cmo'n yal'l?

The Dude Abides
02-27-2006, 12:09 AM
Seriously folks--in a thread about test taking, it is time to check the spelling.

Is there anything more ironic than misspelling misspell?--of course there is but c'mon y'all. Wait, shouldn't that be cmo'n yal'l?

He is still in high school. Maybe they haven't gotten to that chapter yet. :ok:

mexican_texan
02-27-2006, 12:09 AM
Seriously folks--in a thread about test taking, it is time to check the spelling.

Is there anything more ironic than misspelling misspell?--of course there is but c'mon y'all. Wait, shouldn't that be cmo'n yal'l?
I hope you noticed that I spelled it that way for a reason. :)

kbourda
02-27-2006, 12:09 AM
Seriously folks--in a thread about test taking, it is time to check the spelling.

Is there anything more ironic than misspelling misspell?--of course there is but c'mon y'all. Wait, shouldn't that be cmo'n yal'l?

I would like to think he typed that as a joke.

Errant Hothy
02-27-2006, 12:12 AM
Seriously folks--in a thread about test taking, it is time to check the spelling.

Is there anything more ironic than misspelling misspell?--of course there is but c'mon y'all. Wait, shouldn't that be cmo'n yal'l?

I'm pretty sure it was a joke, but hell I know how to spell, honest I do, but my typing skills suck. See several of my posts laced with "teh"s. Damn quick left hand.

infantrycak
02-27-2006, 12:17 AM
I would like to think he typed that as a joke.

Shssssh--while "they" (the anonymous MB community) are looking at misspell, "they" may learn how to spell their own colloquialism. It was supposed to be a subtle thing--but thanks "y'all" for busting me out.

The Dude Abides
02-27-2006, 12:52 AM
he scored a 16. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html

Ibar_Harry
02-27-2006, 02:40 AM
I'm sorry to see a young man in VY's situation. I know some of you have commented on UT and perhaps what goes on. I thought I would throw something out there for those who criticize Fresno State. I'm not certain how many of you are aware of the fact that the Special Teams Coach at Fresno State is the father of the Academic Game Plan. All of the foot ball players are required to go through the program and are watched with a passion. As a result Fresno State's football players rank 4th on the West Coast as far as academic achievent is concerned. That is an NCAA statistic. I believe SC is rated 14th. This program is being touted by major universities such as Princton, Yale and others. It is really becoming an eye opener across the nation. Fresno has actually been able to pick up players, because of what they are doing to assist players in achieving their goals in school. This program is being used in the high schools to work with at risk students. Some of you might want to do some research on this program, particularly if you are in education.

Grid
02-27-2006, 02:50 AM
6, 16, 40, 120... doesnt really matter. We arent going to be drafting him.

infantrycak
02-27-2006, 07:55 AM
he scored a 16. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html

Something is odd with that story. Set aside the particular player involved as this isn't a comment about him at all. McClain's surmising just doesn't fly. Maybe it was a problem with the amount of time given? What are the odds player X received the test in a room by himself with a different timekeeper?--didn't happen--he was in a room with a bunch of people and you don't hear about a bunch of retests. Graded it with the wrong answer key? BS. The answer to that is regrading the test with the right key, not giving the test again. So what is the real reason the 6 is "false" because neither of those reasons is flying?

wags
02-27-2006, 07:59 AM
Ignorance is also dissing a person before knowing the complete facts.

Are all the facts in yet? Have the combine results been officially released or are we taking another journalist at his word?

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 08:03 AM
I believe the VY haters are just as bad as the VY lovers now. Anything to tear a kid down. Grow up about it. It isn't like it is recess anymore. To me it reeks of p' envy everytime I see it. You don't know the kid so stop trying to degrade him just because you don't want to take him. I don't want to take him either but I wish him well. He didn't do anything wrong to me or anyone else. I hope some of you never coach any kid I haves sports team. Maybe you can break him down at age 6 because some other parent doesn't like the way he runs.

thunderkyss
02-27-2006, 08:06 AM
Couldn't agree more. What if Marshall Faulk had never gone to St. Louis? Would we be saying, "You don't draft Bush because he's a type of guy you have to do novel stuff with. He might have been able to line up as a WR in college but it won't work in the NFL." These are unique talents, and to some extent unprecedented talents, that shouldn't be cited as a negative.


Well, that's exactly what I've been saying....

1. We don't need another running back
2. To get all that explosiveness, you'll have to run a different offensive system than the Texans have been using( the system our players were selected for) and a different system than what Kubiak has been using.

It's not a knock on Bush....... If a team that is set up to use a player like Bush wants him bad enough to trade for him, then that's fine. If we pass on Reggie, N.O. will, and so will Tennesee. The Jets may pass on him too, if they decide to go with D'brick. The only team I see that would absolutely not pass, I think is Arizona at #10.

It's just easier for me to understand taking a QB like Vince Young in the top 5, because their are so many successful similar QBs int he league right now. McNair, McNabb, Dante, & even Vick..... For any team.... but then when you have teams like NYJ... who can't seem to keep their guy healthy & Oakland, who's QB has been more successful than some, but many are getting tired of waiting on.... I can see Vince easily going in the top 6. And when you talk about evaluating our QB, if the best thing you can say, is that we haven't had a fair evaluation yet........ I understand we don't need a QB, but we need more speed, and RBs on our team even less.

If Vince wasn't in this year's draft, I'd be draft down all the way.... and use that extra pick to get someone like Cutler, or Reggie McNeal. But Vince is in the Draft.....



6

chuckm
02-27-2006, 08:11 AM
Something is odd with that story. Set aside the particular player involved as this isn't a comment about him at all. McClain's surmising just doesn't fly. Maybe it was a problem with the amount of time given? What are the odds player X received the test in a room by himself with a different timekeeper?--didn't happen--he was in a room with a bunch of people and you don't hear about a bunch of retests. Graded it with the wrong answer key? BS. The answer to that is regrading the test with the right key, not giving the test again. So what is the real reason the 6 is "false" because neither of those reasons is flying?


yea we haven't heard the last of this one .... unfortunately

Vinny
02-27-2006, 08:16 AM
Something is odd with that story. Set aside the particular player involved as this isn't a comment about him at all. McClain's surmising just doesn't fly. Maybe it was a problem with the amount of time given? What are the odds player X received the test in a room by himself with a different timekeeper?--didn't happen--he was in a room with a bunch of people and you don't hear about a bunch of retests. Graded it with the wrong answer key? BS. The answer to that is regrading the test with the right key, not giving the test again. So what is the real reason the 6 is "false" because neither of those reasons is flying?so, who is the NFL trying to protect? A gossip site runs gossip and when the NFL says it's screwed up we all of a sudden think the gossip site has it right?

chuckm
02-27-2006, 08:25 AM
profootballtalk.com certainly operates in the gray areas but then again I'd venture a guess that a majority of us read it occasionally .... you gotta admit that this thing has some appearance of impropriety ... was Young the only one affected? and was he the only one that took it again the next day?

infantrycak
02-27-2006, 08:25 AM
so, who is the NFL trying to protect? A gossip site runs gossip and when the NFL says it's screwed up we all of a sudden think the gossip site has it right?

Not alleging any conspiracy or anything. Only that McClain's explanation doesn't make sense. Like I said, this has nothing to do with VY. There are just some basic facts here that aren't jiving. Some sources have the original test being rescored, some have VY taking the test a 2nd time. That's a pretty basic fact--which one was it? McClain says he retook the test. But you don't retake a test because the wrong answer key was used. I'd just like to know what the real story is.

Vinny
02-27-2006, 08:31 AM
profootballtalk.com certainly operates in the gray areas but then again I'd venture a guess that a majority of us read it occasionally .... you gotta admit that this thing has some appearance of impropriety ... was Young the only one affected? and was he the only one that took it again the next day?beats me...but it's gossip....from a gossip site...that spreads....GOSSIP! This is probably the most predictable "news piece" ever from PFT.

chuckm
02-27-2006, 08:33 AM
This is probably the most predictable "news piece" ever from PFT.

in what way?

Vinny
02-27-2006, 08:38 AM
in what way? Geez, If you can't grasp that this isn't a great gossip piece I can't help you....they live to knock people in the NFL and around the league...they "leak" rumors every year and Young isn't Johnny Einstein. It's just natural. These aren't the guys reporting real news you know....they like to report "Chitown Mole" commentary.

chuckm
02-27-2006, 08:41 AM
Geez, If you can't grasp that this isn't a great gossip piece I can't help you....they live to knock people in the NFL and around the league...they "leak" rumors every year and Young isn't Johnny Einstein. It's just natural.


well I've already indicated in previous posts that profootballtalk.com was a gossip site so no help needed there .... my question centered on your use of the word "predictable" ....

Dr. Toro
02-27-2006, 08:43 AM
And while several reporters said they heard the score was correct and that Young had not done any pre-test preparation for the exam before the Combine, NFL spokesman Steve Alic said the rumors are inaccurate.

I can tell you absolutely that the score that has been reported on the Internet is inaccurate, Alic said. I spoke to the person who graded the test, and he assured me that that number was not correct.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=7&screen=news&news_id=48119

It's a big conspiracy to let VY off easy, right haters?

chuckm
02-27-2006, 08:44 AM
It's a big conspiracy to let VY off easy, right haters?

ohhh why'd you have to go and say that?

Vinny
02-27-2006, 08:47 AM
well I've already indicated in previous posts that profootballtalk.com was a gossip site so no help needed there .... my question centered on your use of the word "predictable" ....I'll come clean and tell you guys that privately I questioned Young's intelligence, but always compared him to Steve McNair in that regard. Many of you who read this have talked to me privately and this is nothing new from me. I have a ton of contacts and this is what many expressed to me, but I have come away with the conclusion that while he isn't going to ever build a bridge, he is plenty smart enough to figure out a hot blitz. If VY had some arrests or some funky friends it would have been the piss test leak....but since he is clean, the hate mongers and gossip pushers will go after his IQ.....just predictable.

jerek
02-27-2006, 09:04 AM
This is still funny, and I guess I shouldn't be amazed that we already have 200+ replies in less than three days time.

If Vince really did get a 6, then okay, he is probably a colossal moron. On the other hand, maybe he just has a learning disability, maybe he just didn't try, or maybe someone with an agenda "leaked" the wrong score.

So meanwhile the anti-Vincers are screaming for blood and the pro-Vincers circle the wagons to protect their boy from this latest "vicious" "gossip-mongering."

The guy won the Rose Bowl before he took this test, played all of those college games that everyone is basing all their opinions on before he took the test, and was the same "leader" or what have you, all before he took the test. The "IQ" test, such as it is, is merely one of many indicators to a player's abilities, and Vince Young being able to distinguish shapes doesn't equate to Vince Young being able to make the right throw, and on that same token, even if he can't distinguish between shapes, he might well still be able to make the right throw. Either way, he's the exact same player he was before he took this test, and I don't see how it really adds or takes anything away from both his abilities and the question marks surrounding them previously.

Yeesh; get off of it. It's an interesting news bit, but everyone is acting like either:

(a) the score was fixed and is part of a large scale conspiracy by anti-Longhorns everywhere to drop Vince's draft stock, or
(b) Clearly Vince isn't the quarterback everyone thought he was, and his draft stock is dropping faster than Enron.

Vince will still be a high draft pick, he still will not be drafted a Texan, and he still has every reason to look forward to a successful NFL career. As someone said it, he's not going to be building a bridge any time soon, but it's not as if scoring low on some arbitrary intelligence tests diminishes what he has already done as a player, which is infinitely more valuable in ascertaining what he will do in the NFL.

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 09:09 AM
I'll come clean and tell you guys that privately I questioned Young's intelligence, but always compared him to Steve McNair in that regard. Many of you who read this have talked to me privately and this is nothing new from me. I have a ton of contacts and this is what many expressed to me, but I have come away with the conclusion that while he isn't going to ever build a bridge, he is plenty smart enough to figure out a hot blitz. If VY had some arrests or some funky friends it would have been the piss test leak....but since he is clean, the hate mongers and gossip pushers will go after his IQ.....just predictable.

Could not agree more and as I said the page before, it is crazy that people are attacking a good kid because they don't want to take him. Just tell me who you'd like to take and why he is better, don't make the other person into a villain.

Errant Hothy
02-27-2006, 09:10 AM
John Clayton just reported on ESPN raio that VY get something in the mid-teens, say around a 16. He scored this on hissecond taking of the test, and on the first he did indeed score a 6. He also said soemthing that raises evenmore questions about VY management team.

Clayotn said that most agents now have all forms of the test, and they have their guys taking the test twice a day leading up to the combine. So in essence the Wonderlic has become open book; and with all that if VY got a 6 on his first taking and a 16 on his second either he isn't trying hard enough or his agent is screwing him over.

Now with all that being said I'm happy for Vince that he did indeed score a 16, as it assures his stock will not be hurt be the Wonderlic. I still don't think he will be coming here though.

TheOgre
02-27-2006, 09:12 AM
I wouldn't be concerned if Vince scored something like a 13, but a 6 is scary. From what I have heard, the Wonderlic is used to look for extremely low scores. I don't think 13 is an extremely low score, but a 6 certainly is.

That said, I would be really stunned if Vince scored a 6. While he isn't a Dean's list student, he doesn't strike me a total moron either.

jerek
02-27-2006, 09:14 AM
I'll come clean and tell you guys that privately I questioned Young's intelligence, but always compared him to Steve McNair in that regard. Many of you who read this have talked to me privately and this is nothing new from me. I have a ton of contacts and this is what many expressed to me, but I have come away with the conclusion that while he isn't going to ever build a bridge, he is plenty smart enough to figure out a hot blitz. If VY had some arrests or some funky friends it would have been the piss test leak....but since he is clean, the hate mongers and gossip pushers will go after his IQ.....just predictable.

Agreed, but it isn't as if the same patently stupid, equally baseless brand of complaints haven't been lobbied against Carr (pretty boy, wife lover, church guy, prick to teammates, etc. etc.)

thunderkyss
02-27-2006, 09:43 AM
Agreed, but it isn't as if the same patently stupid, equally baseless brand of complaints haven't been lobbied against Carr (pretty boy, wife lover, church guy, prick to teammates, etc. etc.)


agreed, but we shouldn't lump all Vince supporters in the same group, or all the Carr hater's for that matter.

jerek
02-27-2006, 09:46 AM
agreed, but we shouldn't lump all Vince supporters in the same group, or all the Carr hater's for that matter.

Agreed, and I didn't ;-) ... Just saying that every camp has its ugly contingent.

thunderkyss
02-27-2006, 09:50 AM
Agreed, and I didn't ;-) ... Just saying that every camp has its ugly contingent.


Some of these guys embarass me....... that's all I'm saying. :)

chuckm
02-27-2006, 09:52 AM
John Clayton just reported on ESPN raio that VY get something in the mid-teens, say around a 16. He scored this on hissecond taking of the test, and on the first he did indeed score a 6.

oh jeeeeeeeeez

so we're back to

test #1: 6
test #2: 16

is this right?

HJam72
02-27-2006, 09:53 AM
This just in, as reported by the pro football expert jerek of the Houston Texans Message Board:

"....the score (of the game) was fixed and is part of a large scale conspiracey by Longhorns everywhere... Clearly Vince isnt' the quarterback everyone thought he was..." :)

Errant Hothy
02-27-2006, 09:55 AM
oh jeeeeeeeeez

so we're back to

test #1: 6
test #2: 16

is this right?

According to Clayton test #1 = 6 and he, which is allowed and most players tend to, retook it and got around a 16. Clayton also said that the first test was given ina group setting and there was a lot of goofing off going on, which he said isn't that uncommon, and this might have contributed to the score of 6. But yes John Clayton did say that VY got a 6 on his first taking of the Wonderlic.

I'm starting to doubt if we will ever know what he really got or if he how many times he took the test.

Haams
02-27-2006, 10:00 AM
After reading through this post I would say there are quite a few people on here who would be lucky to score a six.

Kaiser Toro
02-27-2006, 11:15 AM
Do I want or think Vince could help me out with my portofolio, give me a root canal or build a bomb? No. But do I think he can lead a team to a championship? Yes I do.

We had a team for the last four years that did not have the confidence in our offense to allow our QB to run more than 1 audible. I will take football smarts over book smarts on the football field anyday.

This one is for you Infantry - I have played, recruited, scouted, coached and represented players that were not all there or lacked focus academically, but were very intelligent once they hit the court. It may be difficult for people to understand this that never were involved with team sports above HS.

VY has showed that he can lead and perform for a team at a high level and he did this with a possible 6 on the test. Imagine what he could do if he got a 16. There is a fine line between clever and stupid.

Frills
02-27-2006, 11:53 AM
The fact remains UT had to switch to the spread offense cause VY couldn't stop throwing INTs when it was a pro-style. He didn't have to adjust it due to physical ability...6 or 16, it doesn't matter.

Football smarts are NOT take snap look downfield 2 secs, take off since noone can catch you. In the NFL he will be hit/caught/punished.

Done with the subject till may

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 12:04 PM
The fact remains UT had to switch to the spread offense cause VY couldn't stop throwing INTs when it was a pro-style. He didn't have to adjust it due to physical ability...6 or 16, it doesn't matter.

Football smarts are NOT take snap look downfield 2 secs, take off since noone can catch you. In the NFL he will be hit/caught/punished.

Done with the subject till may

I really think that is a huge simplification of what UT's offense consisted of. Almost all the coaches and his teammates said his decision making was huge for them. I'm not getting the obsession with beating this guy down. If you don't want to draft him, fine but people are crossing the line of making up facts now. I don't want to take him but I recognize the skills.

jerek
02-27-2006, 12:12 PM
I really think that is a huge simplification of what UT's offense consisted of. Almost all the coaches and his teammates said his decision making was huge for them. I'm not getting the obsession with beating this guy down. If you don't want to draft him, fine but people are crossing the line of making up facts now. I don't want to take him but I recognize the skills.

It's a long road to April ;-)

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 12:32 PM
It's a long road to April ;-)

Yup:brickwall

TheOgre
02-27-2006, 12:32 PM
Glad to hear he got a 16. That is about what I would expect him to score.

Huge
02-27-2006, 12:41 PM
The fact remains UT had to switch to the spread offense cause VY couldn't stop throwing INTs when it was a pro-style. He didn't have to adjust it due to physical ability...6 or 16, it doesn't matter.

Football smarts are NOT take snap look downfield 2 secs, take off since noone can catch you. In the NFL he will be hit/caught/punished.

Done with the subject till may
Yeah, cause Major Applewhite (collegiate offensive coordinator) and Chris Simms (NFL starting QB) had no problems with not throwing INTs in that offense. Oh wait...

Applewhite:
1998 - 11 INTs (273 attempts)
1999 - 9 INTs (427 attempts)
2000 - 7 INTs (279 attempts)

Simms:
1998 - 1 INT (36 attempts)
1999 - 7 INTs (117 attempts)
2000 - 11 INTs (362 attempts)
2001 - 12 INTs (396 attempts)

The one year Vince Young ran that offense he was a redshirt freshman. He had 7 INTs in 143 attempts. That's a better rate than Applewhite's and Simms' sophmore seasons in the same offense.

Apparently this change in offenses came after the Oklahoma game. After being put in a "simplified spread" offense, Vince threw 4 TDs to 9 INTs to finish out the '04 season. In the 4 games leading up to the Oklahoma game (before the offense was changed and it was still "pro-style"), Vince had 8 TDs to 2 INTs.

In other words, Vince's numbers as a redshirt freshman and sophmore looked like this while running the pro-style offense at Texas:

135 of 224 (60.3%), 1,808 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs

They didn't "have" to switch because Vince couldn't run the other offense. They made the switch because that offense wasn't taking advantage of Young's abilities...not his lack of abilities. And after losing one game (right before the offense was changed) in the last two years, who would be dumb enough to argue with the results?

Probably a good thing you're done with the subject.

beerlover
02-27-2006, 12:45 PM
I'm not changing my avatar :) as suspected early April Fools joke, one that somebody will probably get hacked off for, good luck finding another job Combine admin guy :pigfly:

Dr. Toro
02-27-2006, 01:01 PM
Yeah, cause Major Applewhite (collegiate offensive coordinator) and Chris Simms (NFL starting QB) had no problems with not throwing INTs in that offense. Oh wait...

Yeah, anybody with a recollection of Texas football in the Mack Brown era knows that the "Pro style" offense run before the option spread was a disaster. Google "Fire Greg Davis" and you'll see what I am talking about. Those Simms teams had sooo much offensive talent (4 top 10 NFL picks and 2 more NFL starters) and really underperformed. There wasn't much vertical passing in that offense. They threw WR screens constantly.

Huge
02-27-2006, 01:10 PM
Yeah, anybody with a recollection of Texas football in the Mack Brown era knows that the "Pro style" offense run before the option spread was a disaster. Google "Fire Greg Davis" and you'll see what I am talking about. Those Simms teams had sooo much offensive talent (4 top 10 NFL picks and 2 more NFL starters) and really underperformed. There wasn't much vertical passing in that offense. They threw WR screens constantly.
Yeah, I'm real familiar with Davis' history.

So was it the system or the QBs?

And if it was Young who struggled, then it would make sense that Texas would revert back to the pro-style offense now that Young is gone...right? Nope, not the case. The spread will still be in place come September.

TreWardTxn
02-27-2006, 02:01 PM
If you ask me, the only major difference passing-wise between what Young ran and what Simms ran was that the coaching staff utlized the shotgun formation and split backs to take advantage of Young's ability to run the ball, that's it. They ran the same passing plays, just that Simms would take a 3 step drop from center and telegraph the ball to a well-positioned linebacker. If anything, the shotgun portion of the offense affected the running game more than the passing game, because they started to use many more delays, and draws to make defenders think rather than react. There was less power running this year with Benson gone, again, mainly affecting the run game, but I don't believe there was any major difference in the formation and routes of receivers in the passing game.

So to answer, it seems apparent to me that Young was able to take the fundamental UT passing game and elevate it to prominent status, in large part because his ability to run was so well respected. There will be variations in UT's offense over the next few years based upon what type of QB and RB personnel they have, but the QB's will be running the same fundamental passing system..

exclude
02-27-2006, 02:24 PM
Haven't read the whole thread so don't know whats been said in other posts but you don't necessarily need a boy genius to lead a team to the Super Bowl but getting a 6 on the test!??!?! Sheesh...

I wouldn't put too many stock into it. I mean c'mon, Alex Smith, scored a 40...and look where that guy is. He has bust written all over him.

c5demon
02-27-2006, 02:28 PM
Jim Rome downgraded VY stock this afternoon.

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 02:36 PM
Jim Rome downgraded VY stock this afternoon.

He downgraded it IF he got a 6. He said that a person with a 6 shouldn't be allowed to operate machinery and probably just walks around with a helmet on.

exclude
02-27-2006, 02:40 PM
Wait I thought he did do that against the USC def....:)

So if VY got a 6 and tore up the USC def, then this just cements my argument that the USC def was a travesty, disregarding anything else to the contrary.

I mean the collective Wonderlic score of the USC def must be 2 or 2.5 :spy: