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Vinny
02-27-2006, 04:37 PM
Jim Rome downgraded VY stock this afternoon.What a relief. I guess that means the Los Angles Clones will likely pick Leinart then.

Nighthawk
02-27-2006, 04:51 PM
John Clayton just reported on ESPN raio that VY get something in the mid-teens, say around a 16. He scored this on hissecond taking of the test, and on the first he did indeed score a 6. He also said soemthing that raises evenmore questions about VY management team.

Clayotn said that most agents now have all forms of the test, and they have their guys taking the test twice a day leading up to the combine. So in essence the Wonderlic has become open book; and with all that if VY got a 6 on his first taking and a 16 on his second either he isn't trying hard enough or his agent is screwing him over.

Now with all that being said I'm happy for Vince that he did indeed score a 16, as it assures his stock will not be hurt be the Wonderlic. I still don't think he will be coming here though.

Whether Vince got a 6 the first time or not:

Just in case somebody doesn't get it: the Wonderlic is not 1 test. It is one KIND of test. Like IQ tests, and ACT and GRE tests, there are hundreds of different tests and new ones made up all the time by the owners (Wonderlic). So having a second chance at taking the test is no more advantage than having taken a few practice tests before taking the one at the combine.

That Vince's handlers didn't have him take a dozen or so before the combine, like every other top players' handlers did, is a crime.

Sportsfan
02-27-2006, 04:52 PM
So what is considered a 'good' score on this test? I don't know anything about it really.
Thanks

Nighthawk
02-27-2006, 04:53 PM
Agreed, but it isn't as if the same patently stupid, equally baseless brand of complaints haven't been lobbied against Carr (pretty boy, wife lover, church guy, prick to teammates, etc. etc.)

Yeah, but the real knock against Carr is that he can't play football all that well. That's not a complaint I've heard about Vince.

jerek
02-27-2006, 04:56 PM
Yeah, but the real knock against Carr is that he can't play football all that well. That's not a complaint I've heard about Vince.

Try reading what I wrote before firing off with your rebuttal. I was referring to the "stupid" comments: namely the ones that I quoted, the type of talk that has absolutely zero to do with perception of Carr's football skill, i.e. the extremely weak church-going-guy-equals-loser, GQ-haircut, bla bla bull**** bull****. Same thing as criticizing Vince for showing up to the White House in jeans or [allegedly] scoring a 6 on a test that a monkey with a broken pencil could crack double digits on. Only thing is, scouts actually do pay [very little] attention to the Wonderlic, whereas nobody grades Carr on his do'.

As for Vince's skill vs Carr's skill, I've been riding this carousel since January and I'm not going to get on it again with you. Sorry.

chuckm
02-27-2006, 04:57 PM
Yeah, but the real knock against Carr is that he can't play football all that well.


sez you

Nighthawk
02-27-2006, 04:58 PM
sez you

Nope. Sez the record.

swisher
02-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Nope. Sez the record.


What record tells you Vince Young can play in the NFL. Nobody questioned Carr's ability coming out of college.

texan279
02-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Nope. Sez the record.

Yeah, Carr is the only one who should be held accountable for this team's record...

chuckm
02-27-2006, 05:02 PM
Nope. Sez the record.

Q: A message board poster wants his NFL team to draft Vince Young. That team currently has a QB. What does the message board poster do?


A:

a) Blame all of the teams woes on the current QB
b) Blame world hunger on the current QB
c) Can't tell

tulexan
02-27-2006, 05:03 PM
Lets replace Andre Johnson with Chad Jackson. Andre had a bad season and Chad is the new hot receiver in the draft.

jerek
02-27-2006, 05:09 PM
Q: A message board poster wants his NFL team to draft Vince Young. That team currently has a QB.


A:

a) Vince Young fans blame all of the teams woes on the current QB
b) Vince Young fans blame world hunger on the current QB
c) Can't tell

For $500 dollars the answer is (d) what are you asking me again? I was talking about David Carr ;-) ;-)

thunderkyss
02-27-2006, 05:40 PM
Q: A message board poster wants his NFL team to draft Vince Young. That team currently has a QB.


A:

a) Vince Young fans blame all of the teams woes on the current QB
b) Vince Young fans blame world hunger on the current QB
c) Can't tell

There is another answer you know... their are people who didn't like David Carr to begin with. Many would rathe have taken Julius Peppers instead. I'm not one of them. I didn't know who the heck David Carr was, but I did notice Joey Harrington... I wanted Joey. But my brother-in-law assured me Carr was the right choice.... So I gave him the benefit of the doubt....... I made excuses for him for four years(that does include last year). Actually in 2004, I started to think we may have made the right choice. Even at the end of the 2004 season, I was thinking David didn't have a great year, but he wasn't given enough time.... AT the same time, I recall saying "throw the D@#$ ball" an awful lot...... or "Where were you going..... dude just pushed him over there".

Look, I think David Carr in all likely hood, will be a good QB. But that's about the extent of it.. good can get you to the SuperBowl.... Good will most certainly win you a lot of games.... But I want better... Plain and Simple.

I don't blame everything on Carr, but Carr did somethings I never tought I'd see a quarterback do...... and he didn't do it just once, he did it often.... then there is that statement "I'd rather tack a sack, than throw an interception" for the most part I agree, a QB should think that way. But... what if he is taking it to the extreme. Sure, his recievers drop balls, but Dave should still throw the ball, and give them a chance.

C Madd
02-27-2006, 10:46 PM
Haven't read the whole thread so don't know whats been said in other posts but you don't necessarily need a boy genius to lead a team to the Super Bowl but getting a 6 on the test!??!?! Sheesh...

I wouldn't put too many stock into it. I mean c'mon, Alex Smith, scored a 40...and look where that guy is. He has bust written all over him.
The Alex Smith that scored a 40 was the tight end. The QB scored in the 30s.
Not surprising, since the TE went to Stanford.

disaacks3
02-28-2006, 12:18 AM
Geez, If you can't grasp that this isn't a great gossip piece I can't help you....they live to knock people in the NFL and around the league...they "leak" rumors every year and Young isn't Johnny Einstein. It's just natural. These aren't the guys reporting real news you know....they like to report "Chitown Mole" commentary. So, is the "gossip" site somehow associated with the guy that McClain said got fired over the incident? Was he some sort of plant by the site? Why would he be made to apologize and then be fired if there wasn't anything to it? (Not necessarily the score, but leaking info at all) They "reported" what was openly known to several reporters via the leaker (including McClain himself) per McClain on 610 this morning. How is this any different than ESPN.com, and the other multiple sources that have reported the same thing, other than the "gossip" site got the scoop posted first? Is the world THAT full of VY 'haters' that they're springing up everywhere? Among the staff at the combine? NOW who's into conspiracy theories here?

Just in case somebody doesn't get it: the Wonderlic is not 1 test. It is one KIND of test. Like IQ tests, and ACT and GRE tests, there are hundreds of different tests and new ones made up all the time by the owners (Wonderlic). So having a second chance at taking the test is no more advantage than having taken a few practice tests before taking the one at the combine.

That Vince's handlers didn't have him take a dozen or so before the combine, like every other top players' handlers did, is a crime. Ok, now you've got me confused. :confused: Having a second chance IS an advantage, whether or not the questions have been changed. Understanding the formatting of a test, and being prepared for the way it ASKS questions is a HUGE advantage. If it wasn't, then why should Vince handlers be "taken to task" for not preparing him for it properly? Which is it?

Hey, I'd like to know the FULL, REAL story here as well, but this one is as muddied as they come. :ok:

Nighthawk
02-28-2006, 01:16 AM
Ok, now you've got me confused. :confused: Having a second chance IS an advantage, whether or not the questions have been changed. Understanding the formatting of a test, and being prepared for the way it ASKS questions is a HUGE advantage. If it wasn't, then why should Vince handlers be "taken to task" for not preparing him for it properly? Which is it?

I said it was "no more advantage than" having taken prep tests. Since all the other test takers had decent agents and reps or friends or college coaches they probably had taken prep tests, which are, I gather, widely available.

Also, many reports suggest VY is not the first to take a second formal test.

That VY hadn't taken the test 20 times before is the fault of his agents and reps. A stupid mistake. But VY's fault, finally, for not selecting a smart, serious, experienced agent.

PS: You also gotta wonder why, after three days, the mods here haven't corrected the headline of this thread.

Long-Spurs-Texan
02-28-2006, 01:35 AM
PS: You also gotta wonder why, after three days, the mods here haven't corrected the headline of this thread.

Because it's satisying to read it from start to finish. The best part is watching all the gutless little Hyenas pile on. Even better watching them post their stupid little pictures & special avatars & signatures. Watching them edit, delete, & disappear? Priceless... :redtowel:

FirstTexansFan
02-28-2006, 03:07 AM
You've not seen me edit, or delete a thing. I make no apologies for anything I've posted, and I retract none of it. If my pic is missing, <I haven't checked> then it was removed by a moderator, not by my hands. I could logically explain the why we don't need Six Young, but many others have tried to no avail. So, I just make light of the situation until it all passes in two months. :)

Wolf
02-28-2006, 07:29 AM
Brown comes out firing.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3689706.html

"This has got nothing to do with whether the kid can play in the NFL," said an AFC assistant head coach who asked that he not be identified. "If he scores a 6 and goes to a team that has great coaching and knows how to take advantage of his unique talent, he can be a tremendous weapon.

"If Young scores a 20 and goes to a team that doesn't have great coaching, has an impatient owner and doesn't have much talent around him, he can bomb out. And it might not have anything to do with him."

Although it would cost Young a ton of money, he might be better off in the long run if, like Marino, he did drop in the first round. But it's not going to happen.


geeze sounds familliar

eric138
02-28-2006, 07:44 AM
From what I've read VY first test was a 16 and he is planning on re-testing.. for whatever its worth..

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

Errant Hothy
02-28-2006, 08:17 AM
Because it's satisying to read it from start to finish. The best part is watching all the gutless little Hyenas pile on. Even better watching them post their stupid little pictures & special avatars & signatures. Watching them edit, delete, & disappear? Priceless... :redtowel:

A) It's (the thread title) not been changed mainly casue we still do not know the truth. There are several stories floating around about VY, 6, the Wonderlic and how many times he took it.

B) as for people posting/editting and leaving...it's to be expected, this is a public MB after all. And it doesn't have to be because poeple are gutless. Nice name calling by the way, shows alot of maturity.

:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall at state of the board these days.

Big B Texan Fan
02-28-2006, 09:18 AM
casue we still do not know the truth. There are several stories floating around about VY, 6, the Wonderlic and how many times he took it.
The NFL says it wasn't a 6, never was a 6, and will never be a 6. What do they have to gain by covering up a low score. Nothing!! If anything you'd think that they would want the truth out about a low score as to keep a dumbass from becoming an instant multi-millionaire on thier dime.

Rumors are just that, Rumors, Until a reputible source (the NFfreakin'L) comes in and says otherwise.

And I'm OK with a 16. If 19-20 shows normal IQ, stacked on top is most atheletes studying for it and taking it about 10 times and only getting mid 20's out of a possible 50, VY not studying and getting a 16 is right in line with where most of us would think he'd score anyways. He's not the smartest kid on the block. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Bradshaw is kinda dumb too.

But it's one thing to be flat out dumb, and another to be not so smart but able to be a wizard at your profession. You ever tried to read a pre-scription written by your Dr, he/she probably would've failed a hand writing class if forced to take one right before getting their jobs as your Dr. What if someone told you that they had failed a class but refused to tell you what class, you'd scoff at the idea of them being your Dr., but if you knew it was only a hand writing course then you'd more than likely let it slide because it has nothing to do with why you chose them to be your Dr.

Paging Dr. Young, we need to stop the bleeding over at Reliant, can you get there stat.:superman:

chuckm
02-28-2006, 09:19 AM
Ok after having read and listened for the past 2 days about this, here's my take on what happened .....

1) Saturday he takes the test and scores very low .... 6 or whatever .... I heard on ESPN radio yesterday that when a player scores very low on the first go-round, the common practice is to allow them to re-take but the difference between this situation and the others is that the original grade is never published, leaked, ... whatever ...

2) Saturday/Sunday NFL combine people realize the leak occurred and start spinning .... graded wrong, improperly given, grade wasn't a 6, .....

3) Sunday he's re-tested and scores a 16

In a normal situation, we'd hear about the grade days later ... 16 .... no problem, next subject ....

anyway just my opinion but ultimately this whole thing is much ado about nothing .... if anything constructive comes out of this it'd be Young realizing he chose his advisors/management poorly and he'd upgrade ...

Vinny
02-28-2006, 09:38 AM
My take is even simpler. My opinion of VY stems from the football field. Before the Rose Bowl, during the Rose Bowl, and after the Rose Bowl....my opinion has been based on his play on the football field and really hasn't changed.

For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart (I'd like to see them call him names or insult him openly to his face...wouldn't happen). There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff and sad commentary about football fans.

HoustonFrog
02-28-2006, 10:05 AM
I know he is a VY homer but I think McClain explained it pretty well today with quotes to back it up. I've been saying all along that I'm not for drafting the guy but that I think people are being morons about him. He is a good kid who has improved and made a name for himself. He is a winner and has showed class. If you don't want to draft him, fine, we agree, but dragging his name through the mud isn't going to make your pick more appealing. Some team will be getting a good kid and a proven winner.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/3689706.html

Marcus
02-28-2006, 10:08 AM
My take is even simpler. My opinion of VY stems from the football field. Before the Rose Bowl, during the Rose Bowl, and after the Rose Bowl....my opinion has been based on his play on the football field and really hasn't changed.

For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart. There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff.

Vinny, I would characterize it as nothing but a fan backlash at the Pro Vince spin machine, and nothing personal directed at Vince. When you have this immense propaganda machine that's orchestrated by the McClain/Chronicle/610 triumphirate that has put on this "you must draft Vince or you're stupid" campaign, with fans coming out and saying that they won't buy season tickets anymore, or they won't be Texans fans anymore if they don't draft him . . . anyone who happens to disagree with it, again, is vilified for being either stupid, *****ic, or flat out unpatriotic to the good state of Texas.:rolleyes:

You have campaigns, and then you have smear campaigns. That's just the way it works.

Vinny
02-28-2006, 10:12 AM
It's all over Houston sports radio and all over message boards everywhere. Cutler gets pumped up for his positives coming out of Vandy, but Vince Young is being insulted repeatedly. There have been no games played since the Rose Bowl. I can't think of an explanation other than racism myself. Sad stuff.

Marcus
02-28-2006, 10:18 AM
Oh c'mon Vinny? Racism? Now, I think you're starting to lose it. Some fans would rather take Reggie. I happen to like D'Brickashaw. Last time I checked, they were black also.

Vinny
02-28-2006, 10:21 AM
I see a black QB backlash as I scan the National boards and national radio....Marino never got panned like this for his 14 on his Wonder Lick....but then again, he's not a black QB...just a QB.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2006, 10:23 AM
The NFL says it wasn't a 6, never was a 6, and will never be a 6. What do they have to gain by covering up a low score. Nothing!! If anything you'd think that they would want the truth out about a low score as to keep a dumbass from becoming an instant multi-millionaire on thier dime.

Rumors are just that, Rumors, Until a reputible source (the NFfreakin'L) comes in and says otherwise.

And I'm OK with a 16. If 19-20 shows normal IQ, stacked on top is most atheletes studying for it and taking it about 10 times and only getting mid 20's out of a possible 50, VY not studying and getting a 16 is right in line with where most of us would think he'd score anyways. He's not the smartest kid on the block. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Bradshaw is kinda dumb too.

But it's one thing to be flat out dumb, and another to be not so smart but able to be a wizard at your profession. You ever tried to read a pre-scription written by your Dr, he/she probably would've failed a hand writing class if forced to take one right before getting their jobs as your Dr. What if someone told you that they had failed a class but refused to tell you what class, you'd scoff at the idea of them being your Dr., but if you knew it was only a hand writing course then you'd more than likely let it slide because it has nothing to do with why you chose them to be your Dr.

Paging Dr. Young, we need to stop the bleeding over at Reliant, can you get there stat.:superman:

Nobody from an objective point of view is disputing the 6, although Clayton is saying that the first test was low (somewhere between 6-11) and VY retook it and got a 16, which is a perfectly exceptable score and a score that should not hurt his draft status. But as I've said before VY has made some horrible deciscions regarding his management team.

It's common knowledge that most agents have all forms of the Wonderlic and have their clients prepping for the test inthe weeks leading up to the combine, see Akli Smith scoring in teh mid 20s. With this in mind either 1) VY's agent didn't help his client prepare for the Wonderlic porperly or 2) VY blew off his first attempt at the test. My opnion is that it is a bit of both, poor management coupled with a bit of an "I can do anything and am so good I don't have to do what the rest of these guys do and I'll still go top 5" attitude. This is just a theory on my part and if VY does have a bit of an ego issue right now, can we really blame him? Just look at his life since the Rose Bowl, and tell me if his ego hasn't been storked by hundreds. Maybe this was a bit of a wake up call that will serve VY to have a gret pro day.

As for VY as a pro, I think he needs alot of work before starting in the NFL; and I still have serious doubts about his ability to run and function an NFL offense. Several factors lead to this: Ran teh spread offense, lack of a flatter trajectory on out routes, little expierence operating under center, will not be able to run as freely in the pors, no "zone option read" in the NFL, Thorwing motion and release point/angle, etc etc. What VY does have going for him is incredible heart, toughness, speed, size (somewhat negated by his throwing motion) and the killer instinct neccesary tobe a champion.

But I still want Bush first, then Ferguson, then VY. Just my opinion.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2006, 10:28 AM
I see a black QB backlash as I scan the National boards and national radio....Marino never got panned like this for his 14 on his Wonder Lick....but then again, he's not a black QB...just a QB.

Wasn't Marino the last QB taken in the first round of his draft year. What's to say that his Wonderlic score didn't contribute to this.

I think the black QB think is played out and has been for awhile. See; Moon, McNiar, McNabb, Byron Sandwhich and those you will be enteringthe NFlin the coming years Jacobs, the QB at Ohio State and several other I'm forgetting currently.

Big B Texan Fan
02-28-2006, 10:30 AM
or flat out unpatriotic to the good state of Texas.:rolleyes:

Unpatriotic to the good state of Texas is drafting another kid from CA with your second #1 overall selection in the NFL draft. Let's just go ahead and move the team to LA now.

And I don't think Vinny meant out right racism as far the color of VY skin goes, more along the lines jealousy with a pinch of color. Although I'm probably wrong and it is more about color than we think. Not to mention there ae people who want to tear people down before they are given a chance to succeed so they can say "See, I told you so".

Marcus
02-28-2006, 10:30 AM
If it had been reported from the git-go that he had a 16 to begin with, there would be no story. But instead the 16 was more like a retraction to the false 6.

I think it's more of the dark side of the news media than anything else. They are vultures. You show em a piece of juicy red meat, they are going to pick at it.

HoustonFrog
02-28-2006, 10:32 AM
It's all over Houston sports radio and all over message boards everywhere. Cutler gets pumped up for his positives coming out of Vandy, but Vince Young is being insulted repeatedly. There have been no games played since the Rose Bowl. I can't think of an explanation other than racism myself. Sad stuff.


BTW, they are now saying that Cutler's workout wasn't all that and that he didn't move up at all. As Clayton said, no WOW factor. I am not going to comment on the black QB thing but I see a little of that here. McNair has like a 13 and was a top pick and a great QB early. But VY haters won't ever see that.

chuckm
02-28-2006, 10:36 AM
Unpatriotic to the good state of Texas is drafting another kid from CA with your second #1 overall selection in the NFL draft. Let's just go ahead and move the team to LA now.


this statement is silly

Vinny
02-28-2006, 10:43 AM
I think the black QB think is played out and has been for awhile. See; Moon, McNiar, McNabb, Byron Sandwhich and those you will be enteringthe NFlin the coming years Jacobs, the QB at Ohio State and several other I'm forgetting currently.I don't know what you mean by played out. Moon caught hell here as a black QB and I heard N this and N that back then. I remember it. McNabb was boo'ed lustilly by the Philly crowd when he was picked. I also remember a faction of people who thought McNair was too dumb to be our QB here in Houston. All black QB's

texan279
02-28-2006, 10:45 AM
It's all over Houston sports radio and all over message boards everywhere. Cutler gets pumped up for his positives coming out of Vandy, but Vince Young is being insulted repeatedly. There have been no games played since the Rose Bowl. I can't think of an explanation other than racism myself. Sad stuff.

The reason I hear everyone pumping Cutler is because he is impressing people at the combine and challenged Young and Leinhart to show up at the combine and throw also, I have no idea though, I missed the QB's and didn't see Cutler myself.

Dr. Toro
02-28-2006, 10:47 AM
Nobody from an objective point of view is disputing the 6, although Clayton is saying that the first test was low (somewhere between 6-11) and VY retook it and got a 16, which is a perfectly exceptable score and a score that should not hurt his draft status. But as I've said before VY has made some horrible deciscions regarding his management team.

Maybe this was a bit of a wake up call that will serve VY to have a gret pro day.

Clayton did say there was a lot of goofing off in that test group. We will never know what truly went down with that test. I have heard the rumor was widespread, but PFT broke the story, and I imagine we never would have heard the 6 number or seen this fiasco without them (undoubtedly, there would have been rumblings). One need only look at their VY comics and photoshopping to see they don't seem to be overly concerned with professionalism or responsibility.

Concerning the Pro-Day... Vince has always seemed to feed off of the competition and perceived slights dealt to him. Whether or not VY needed one, this was certainly a wake-up call to the vultures in the media and more conservative NFL folks who have tons of doubts about his game.

They can say all the things they want to about VY on paper, but he always seems to acquit himself quite well with his play.

kbourda
02-28-2006, 10:50 AM
My take is even simpler. My opinion of VY stems from the football field. Before the Rose Bowl, during the Rose Bowl, and after the Rose Bowl....my opinion has been based on his play on the football field and really hasn't changed.

For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart (I'd like to see them call him names or insult him openly to his face...wouldn't happen). There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff and sad commentary about football fans.

Bravo! I think this whole test score is just reaching for something to bash him about.

OT but do you think there will be another season of Curb? I absolutely love that show. From the looks of the last show of this past season, I don't think so.

kbourda
02-28-2006, 10:53 AM
The reason I hear everyone pumping Cutler is because he is impressing people at the combine and challenged Young and Leinhart to show up at the combine and throw also, I have no idea though, I missed the QB's and didn't see Cutler myself.

I saw the combine. I will say he did ok. Omar Jacobs threw several deep patterns on the money.

chuckm
02-28-2006, 10:54 AM
In today's world, it's difficult to criticize or disagree with a minority without it being labeled as "rascism", "closet rascism", "having a pinch of color" or whatever ...

For me, the paramount issue concerning Young is his ability to translate his awesome physical gifts to the NFL. For the most part his college offense was very basic and for good reason. Why try to outsmart people when you have such a weapon? That would be ludicrous.... but in the NFL it won't be so easy. So his cognitive and decision-making skills must be scrutinized before investing millions. The events of the past few days, true or false, do nothing to help that. We can debate the Wonderlic as "irrelevent" , "culturally-basied", ..... but you can bet that if he had scored a 30, NFL GMs, talk radio, message boards, fans in general would be crowing it .... and for good reason

texan279
02-28-2006, 10:54 AM
Bravo! I think this whole test score is just reaching for something to bash him about.

OT but do you think there will be another season of Curb? I absolutely love that show. From the looks of the last show of this past season, I don't think so.

Kind of like some here bash Carr for his hair, being a family man, or not showing enough emotion.

kbourda
02-28-2006, 10:57 AM
Oh c'mon Vinny? Racism? Now, I think you're starting to lose it. Some fans would rather take Reggie. I happen to like D'Brickashaw. Last time I checked, they were black also.

Once again you bash the person and not the point. WE know those players are Black. They just don't happen to play QB. Denial, it's more than a river in Egypt.

Vinny
02-28-2006, 10:58 AM
OT but do you think there will be another season of Curb? I absolutely love that show. From the looks of the last show of this past season, I don't think so.I donno (love the show too btw), but one of my friends described me as "the Hawaiian Larry David" the other day...so it inspired me to make the temp avatar switch....:wacko:

kbourda
02-28-2006, 11:01 AM
Kind of like some here bash Carr for his hair, being a family man, or not showing enough emotion.

That's reaching too. At least when I say something negative about Carr it has to do with the football field. For the record, I don't care what athletes do off the field. Because underneath it all, they are human beings like us as well.

HoustonFrog
02-28-2006, 11:08 AM
The reason I hear everyone pumping Cutler is because he is impressing people at the combine and challenged Young and Leinhart to show up at the combine and throw also, I have no idea though, I missed the QB's and didn't see Cutler myself.

Except for I heard he didn't impress at all and there was nothing special to his workout.

texan279
02-28-2006, 11:12 AM
Except for I heard he didn't impress at all and there was nothing special to his workout.

Like I said it's what I heard as well, not what I saw. I did read this on www.kffl.com though...

NCAA | Cutler impressive
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:17:42 -0800

Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler impressed in his NFL Combine workout, gunning passes around the field and bench-pressing 225 pounds 23 times.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NCAA | Mayock feels Cutler is top quarterback in draft
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:45:21 -0800

Mike Mayock, of the NFL Network, said he feels Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler is the top quarterback in the 2006 Draft. He believes Cutler has a better arm and a quicker release than either USC QB Matt Leinart or Texas QB Vince Young. Maycock said, "Big arm. I think he helped himself and I truly believe he can go anywhere from No. 3 to No. 9."

kbourda
02-28-2006, 11:23 AM
Like I said it's what I heard as well, not what I saw. I did read this on www.kffl.com though...

NCAA | Cutler impressive
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:17:42 -0800

Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler impressed in his NFL Combine workout, gunning passes around the field and bench-pressing 225 pounds 23 times.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NCAA | Mayock feels Cutler is top quarterback in draft
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:45:21 -0800

Mike Mayock, of the NFL Network, said he feels Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler is the top quarterback in the 2006 Draft. He believes Cutler has a better arm and a quicker release than either USC QB Matt Leinart or Texas QB Vince Young. Maycock said, "Big arm. I think he helped himself and I truly believe he can go anywhere from No. 3 to No. 9."

You talking about Mike Mayock, the guy glorifing Cutler's over throw on the deep route drill? Come on. As much as people like to call McClain VY's personal media relation guy, the same can be said for Mike Mayock about Cutler.

chuckm
02-28-2006, 11:27 AM
all this Cutler bashing is sad really .... :rolleyes:

texan279
02-28-2006, 11:29 AM
You talking about Mike Mayock, the guy glorifing Cutler's over throw on the deep route drill? Come on. As much as people like to call McClain VY's personal media relation guy, the same can be said for Mike Mayock about Cutler.

Like I said, didn't see it for myself, only going on what I am reading/hearing, but as of yet I have not heard/read anything negative about Cutler's performance at the combine. I also read Sean Payton has said behind closed doors that he thinks Cutler could be the next Brett Favre.

kbourda
02-28-2006, 11:32 AM
all this Cutler bashing is sad really .... :rolleyes:

Yeah but at least it is kept in perspective.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2006, 11:56 AM
I don't know what you mean by played out. Moon caught hell here as a black QB and I heard N this and N that back then. I remember it. McNabb was boo'ed lustilly by the Philly crowd when he was picked. I also remember a faction of people who thought McNair was too dumb to be our QB here in Houston. All black QB's

Point taken, I was to young to remeber Moon's first years in Houston and living over seas when McNair was drafted. AS for the Philly fans booing McNabbb; who the hell havn't teh Philly fans boo'd. They would probally boo Jesus.

But also that is all in the past, now you don't hear that kinda of stuff aboutthose guys now. McNair and McNabb are both considered top flight QBs (well Steve was in his prime); and the biggest knock I hear about Moon come from his personal life. I didin't remeber a whole lot of black QB stuff with Byron.

HoustonFrog
02-28-2006, 12:18 PM
Like I said it's what I heard as well, not what I saw. I did read this on www.kffl.com though...

NCAA | Cutler impressive
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:17:42 -0800

Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler impressed in his NFL Combine workout, gunning passes around the field and bench-pressing 225 pounds 23 times.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NCAA | Mayock feels Cutler is top quarterback in draft
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:45:21 -0800

Mike Mayock, of the NFL Network, said he feels Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler is the top quarterback in the 2006 Draft. He believes Cutler has a better arm and a quicker release than either USC QB Matt Leinart or Texas QB Vince Young. Maycock said, "Big arm. I think he helped himself and I truly believe he can go anywhere from No. 3 to No. 9."

I'm going off of what John Clayton said on ESPN, Mike and Mike this morning. Golic said he thought overall his stock dropped because of his release, etc and Clayton said overall, talking to NFL scouts he only established himself as the 3rd best QB. I am sure the guy is a good guy, I'm just reporting what I heard.

Vinny
02-28-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm going off of what John Clayton said on ESPN, Mike and Mike this morning. Golic said he thought overall his stock dropped because of his release, etc and Clayton said overall, talking to NFL scouts he only established himself as the 3rd best QB. I am sure the guy is a good guy, I'm just reporting what I heard.You got something wrong I assume....The only things I have seen and heard from Cutler at the combine was impressive.

jerek
02-28-2006, 12:23 PM
My take is even simpler. My opinion of VY stems from the football field. Before the Rose Bowl, during the Rose Bowl, and after the Rose Bowl....my opinion has been based on his play on the football field and really hasn't changed.

For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart (I'd like to see them call him names or insult him openly to his face...wouldn't happen). There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff and sad commentary about football fans.

It is interesting that much the same could be said of some of Carr's opponents, or even Reggie Bush's draft opponents (saw a piece not long back about how he had his area code under his eyes, and how clearly that showed his gang affiliations which the poster quickly correlated with Bush being of bad character ... wtf.)

Also interesting how the pro-Vince camp only speaks out against the unfair bias against Vince, but you hear nary a peep from those same posters about "pretty boy" or "church guy" comments directed against Carr.

Lol can't we all just get along? Seriously, for all of the drivel that we have to wade through, I enjoy the MB, I have learned new things here and there are a solid contingent of posters that have worthwhile things to say, good discussion to be had. I would never call it "hatred," I think that is simply the wrong word for it, but it is the blind antagonism that always makes you wonder.

In today's world, it's difficult to criticize or disagree with a minority without it being labeled as "rascism", "closet rascism", "having a pinch of color" or whatever ...

For me, the paramount issue concerning Young is his ability to translate his awesome physical gifts to the NFL. For the most part his college offense was very basic and for good reason. Why try to outsmart people when you have such a weapon? That would be ludicrous.... but in the NFL it won't be so easy. So his cognitive and decision-making skills must be scrutinized before investing millions. The events of the past few days, true or false, do nothing to help that. We can debate the Wonderlic as "irrelevent" , "culturally-basied", ..... but you can bet that if he had scored a 30, NFL GMs, talk radio, message boards, fans in general would be crowing it .... and for good reason

Really good points.

Lucky
02-28-2006, 01:55 PM
You got something wrong I assume....The only things I have seen and heard from Cutler at the combine was impressive.
I've heard reports that Cutler was surly in interviews and there are concerns about his coachability. Probably just a SEC QB backlash.

HoustonFrog
02-28-2006, 01:58 PM
You got something wrong I assume....The only things I have seen and heard from Cutler at the combine was impressive.

Actually this is correct! This is from my drive in this morning. Clayton said he had talked to many and the guy didn't "Wow" them on Sunday were his exact words. He said he threw to the left sideline well and showed his arm but overall he is the third guy out there. Golic, who watched him said his release is off and that he thought he actually dropped.

The Dude Abides
02-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Mike Golic - NFL QB coach. If anyone should be critiquing a quarterback's throw, it should not be Mike Golic

HoustonFrog
02-28-2006, 02:57 PM
Mike Golic - NFL QB coach. If anyone should be critiquing a quarterback's throw, it should not be Mike Golic

Completely agree. I do trust the Professor Clayton compared to most NFL reporters though.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2006, 03:08 PM
Mike Golic - NFL QB coach. If anyone should be critiquing a quarterback's throw, it should not be Mike Golic

Golic was just mad cause he heard that Cutler can eat more donuts then he could.

gwallaia
02-28-2006, 05:47 PM
Forgive me if this has already been posted elsewhere.

Vince Young, quarterback, Texas
He’ll be the story of the next two months. After the Rose Bowl hangover, there was talk that Houston couldn’t pass up using the No. 1 overall pick on Young. However, after the combine, there’s some wondering if Young will be this year’s Aaron Rodgers and sweat Saturday away as the picks fly by?

At the center of the wondering is a disputed Wonderlic intelligence test score Young took. There were several reports that said he scored a stunningly low 6 out of 50. Then there are reports that it was graded incorrectly and he took it again and scored a 16. But nothing’s official.

But there are now new questions about Young’s ability to think quickly. A 16 is a poor score for a quarterback and that is a position where the Wonderlic is extremely important. No matter how wonderful of a runner and a leader Young could be, if he can’t read a defense, he could be in trouble in the NFL.

There’s already questions about his throwing mechanics and lack of experience in a non-shotgun offense. Now there are more questions. After being bypassed by Cutler, Young may now have to hope Detroit picks him at No. 9.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11598441/

axman40
02-28-2006, 06:35 PM
Vince Young scoring 6 makes Trojan fan very sad!

:ok:

cuppacoffee
02-28-2006, 06:39 PM
A lot of people called Bradshaw dumb too. Guess it was because he was black..wait, what..he ain't black?

Guess it was because at the time he entered the league he did in fact come across as dumb, regardless of his color. I do believe it was found out later that he had a medical problem.

Youngs' intelligence can be questioned without him or his fans playing the race card. Hell...I'm white and a lot of people on this board probably question my intelligence.

I only wish I was dumb enough to to be offered a multi-million dollar bonus.

I had season ticket to the Oilers at the time Moon played. I heard fans boo him, I heard fans cheer him. I never once heard the N word used to describe Moon at any of the games, or in private conversations for that matter.

I guess some of you must hang aroung with a lot of bigots. Maybe you should examine your list of friends....:twocents:

:coffee:

wrestler4life
02-28-2006, 06:54 PM
My only take on the matter is that Young is best when you dont try to coach him up too much. What NFL team is going to be able to let their offense just hang on someone who is "not coached up too much" and left to do what they want.
For a guy that scored a 16 on the test, this would not fly on any of the complex NFL offenses.
He is a great athlete, one of the best ever to come out of the draft, but I amreally questioning his ability to run a pro offense.

Dr. Toro
02-28-2006, 07:13 PM
My only take on the matter is that Young is best when you dont try to coach him up too much.

That's not a bad thing. You don't "coach him up", because he doesn't need to be "coached up". Don't take that as thinking he's uncoachable... it's just really simple, his athleticism makes you dedicate at least one player to spying him. Secondly, as Jerry Gray said, you can't take narrow angles with your DEs, because they won'tbe able to contain.

I've read Ohio St. did the best job of making him a little frustrated and flummoxed just by putting up a picket fence with the D-line and letting the linebackers make plays. Some think Young's biggest task will be settling into the pocket and just taking his time when faced with similar approaches in the NFL. Well, that was at Ohio St., early in the season, facing one of the best linebacking corps in recent memory and a stellar defense, and he seemed to do pretty well (270 passing, 2td/2int, and 76 yards rushing). He cut through that D like butter in the first quarter, OSU adjusted and gave him some trouble in the 2nd and 3rd. By the time the 4th quarter rolled around, he had adjusted and picked that D apart on the last drive.

Sure, in the NFL there will be all types of exotic coverages and blitzes he will face, he'll need to adjust quickly... but things could still be easy for him at the next level, as his running ability and vision will definitely force LBs and DEs to be more conservative. If he can beat LBs in the NFL, then the safeties will feel tons of pressure by his athleticism, too. That's why you don't have to "coach him up". His size and speed put pressure on the defense and open up some nice passing lanes. You keep it simple, don't mess with something that works naturally.

Texans_Chick
02-28-2006, 11:29 PM
My take is even simpler. My opinion of VY stems from the football field. Before the Rose Bowl, during the Rose Bowl, and after the Rose Bowl....my opinion has been based on his play on the football field and really hasn't changed.

For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart (I'd like to see them call him names or insult him openly to his face...wouldn't happen). There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff and sad commentary about football fans.


Exactly. I thought I was gonna puke given some of the ugliness I heard on the Rome show for a test result that was not real.

Anyhow, I really wish VY would have had an experienced agent to deal with this stuff. Not just the test prep, because I've always thought the biggest part of the draft is the spin.

It's all gossip and posturing and positioning. Leaking good stuff about your client. And maybe trashing the other guy. And if you don't get your message out, the other guys and the media will make stuff up.

So Major Adams could say all he wants about how easy it is to be an agent with the rookie contracts fairly set in stone, but given how high profile VY is, Adams way out of his league. Not a cool family counselor to take a job, he really was illequiped to do. An interesting alternative history to consider would have been thinking of how this draft process would have gone had VY gone with a more experienced agency group, that doesn't have to invent the wheel preparing VY for the draft process.

Whether or not you would like VY to be picked by the Texans, it really is ugly to see people take as much pleasure as they have about this non-story story.

This thread is illin.

Tha_Tinman
03-01-2006, 02:18 AM
We knew all along that they would shop the pick, but at the end of the day, I think we'll keep the pick.


I think it's been confirmed that Vince scored a 6 on the test. I don't know about the 16 on the re-test thing. But I say whoop ti doo!

Its all for show and popcorn anyway. Who cares what he scores on some IQ test ...who cares what he runs in the 40 ...who cares if he can hit a rooster in the butt from 40 yards.

Think about it ...in how many discussions does Dan Marino's combine results come up in? Or Marshall Faulk? Anybody ever talk about what Barry Sanders did at the combine? Or even our beloved Michael Vick?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Noone gives a hoot really. I mean its fun for about a week or so. The stuff that REALLY matters are the physicals ...other than that ...its just a freak show ...fodder for the announcer's between play banter.

The bottom line is WHEREVER Vince ends up ...he is going to shine ...hopefully it will be right here in Houston.

I'm beginning to lose hope though ...and at this point ...I doubt if we even get Bush ...unless either of them fall to the 4th pick. I really think they are going to take that Jets trade for Abraham and the 4th pick.

This is driving me wacky ...you've got to admit though ...there hasn't been this much speculation (fun) for an NFL draft in decades! People are selling a LOT of newspapers on this stuff!

Huge1
03-01-2006, 03:23 AM
Does anyone here have the NFL Network? Just curious because I watched the entire combine and one of the hosts (don't remember his name) confirmed that Vince took the test twice.....scoring a 16 the second time.

I'll go back through the tape and get the host's name....

exclude
03-01-2006, 10:48 AM
I think people are totally missing the point: VY scoring a 6 on the Wonderlic test has more to do with the UT way of teaching than anything else :spy: :)
*ducks incoming flying tomato from the UT grads*

All kidding aside, I think this VY bashing (especially now with people using his Wonderlic test as new ammo) has undeservedly gotten meaner, and frankly is wearing thin. I won't add anything more other than that. Enough has been said on the subject and I won't pile on.

At this point, this pro-Bush guy (Kubiakspeak) is hoping VY will come in for whichever team takes him and immdeately starts winning with him from day one a la Rothlisberger. This pro-Bush guy knows that VY is a great player destined to do great things(like Bush) and hopes he has a long career, unlike Marcus Vick. (as an aside, does anyone else notice Kubiak's tendency to address himself in the third person 'this guy' ???)

thunderkyss
03-01-2006, 11:07 AM
But there are now new questions about Young’s ability to think quickly. A 16 is a poor score for a quarterback and that is a position where the Wonderlic is extremely important. No matter how wonderful of a runner and a leader Young could be, if he can’t read a defense, he could be in trouble in the NFL.

There’s already questions about his throwing mechanics and lack of experience in a non-shotgun offense. Now there are more questions.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11598441/


uuuuuhhhh...........Yeah.. OK.....
There are two things you can do to slow things down for your QB.... You can put him in the shotgun..... it will take defenders longer to get to him. This is what Vince has played in primarily over the last season. He has shown some success in "Pro_Style" under center offenses.... just not last year. Or, you can move the pocket.... something done in the NFL often, with mobile QBs. Something Kubiak has done plenty of in Denver..... mixing the shotgun in there for the same reason, I suppose.


I honestly don't see what the problem is.

We know Vince can read a defense... maybe not as fast as some, but there are ways around that.

another option would be to go to a 3 step, sometimes a 1 step drop.

wags
03-01-2006, 11:14 AM
McNabb was boo'ed lustilly by the Philly crowd when he was picked.

McNabb wasn't booed for being a black QB, he was booed because the fans desperately wanted Ricky Williams. Cunningham played in Philly didn't he?

CarrIsFine
03-01-2006, 06:14 PM
Young is getting slammed by the media. It is obvious he scored very low on the first test, regardless of whether or not it was a 6. I'll bet he was told to skip the harder questions on the second one and at least get the easy ones right.

I heard one of the association questions was: Kryptonite is to Superman as Wonderlic is to........................VY.

Boxscore
03-01-2006, 07:17 PM
I got 13 out of 15 correct on the sample test, giving myself about 10 seconds for each answer, using no paper. This is child's play. I could have gotten at least 10 out of 15 using paper as a 5th grader. It's really kind of embarrasing how our HS's and Colleges are turning out people with rocks for brains. OTOH, there is "normal" smart, and football smart. I am more concerned about football smarts myself. Granted a QB is generally going to need to be intelligent, but knocking him out of the first rd? Come on now.

Great point. I think the double standards that Universities use for athletes compared to your average every day student sucks. To get into UT as a freshman, you must be ranked very high in your HS class, have a killer SAT score and a very high GPA. To transfer into UT from Junior College, probably requires at least a 3.0 or higher, however if you can catch or throw a football and run the 40 in 4.4 or less, you are in, and grades don't count. I consider that to be very wrong!
Anyone know if VY was in the top 10% at Madison?

stevo3883
03-01-2006, 07:59 PM
Great point. I think the double standards that Universities use for athletes compared to your average every day student sucks. To get into UT as a freshman, you must be ranked very high in your HS class, have a killer SAT score and a very high GPA. To transfer into UT from Junior College, probably requires at least a 3.0 or higher, however if you can catch or throw a football and run the 40 in 4.4 or less, you are in, and grades don't count. I consider that to be very wrong!
Anyone know if VY was in the top 10% at Madison?


yeah UT has gone insane. a 30 ACT won't get you in.

and it takes like at least a 3.5 to transfer from a JC.

Napa Auto Parts
03-05-2006, 01:54 AM
may be we can bring in akili smith if i remember correctly he scored a 36 or was it a 35 one of those for sure but who cares about what they can do on the field lets judge everything on the WonDerLic:stirpot:

Nighthawk
03-05-2006, 02:46 AM
I'll bet he was told to skip the harder questions on the second one and at least get the easy ones right.

Duh. If you worked at it maybe you could score a 10! I mean no disrespect by this, however. In case the point is missed, this is standard testing strategy. EVERYONE is told to do this.

StarStruck
03-05-2006, 06:39 AM
Great point. I think the double standards that Universities use for athletes compared to your average every day student sucks. To get into UT as a freshman, you must be ranked very high in your HS class, have a killer SAT score and a very high GPA. To transfer into UT from Junior College, probably requires at least a 3.0 or higher, however if you can catch or throw a football and run the 40 in 4.4 or less, you are in, and grades don't count. I consider that to be very wrong!
Anyone know if VY was in the top 10% at Madison?

I stand to be corrected if my thinking is off base, but aren't the top athletes recruited based on the money they generate for the school? As great as the requirements are for other students entering the universities such as UT, don't the gate receipts provide many of the buildings used to educate the killer SAT scorers and very high GPAs?

I don't have any problem with universities keeping the same standards for athletes as their other students, but also realize that to do so, perhaps the not so elite university will have a huge advantage by drawing the crowds and and a heck of a lot of money. Are the top universities willing to give up their cash cow in keeping with the general standards of admission? If so, how much would the tuition, use fees and housing costs rise for the students?

As far as VY's ranking at Madison, I believe that Mack Brown was thinking more about revenue than the NHS.

chuckm
03-05-2006, 08:44 AM
may be we can bring in akili smith if i remember correctly he scored a 36 or was it a 35 one of those for sure but who cares about what they can do on the field lets judge everything on the WonDerLic:stirpot:



here's a link to the story surrounding Smith's test

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/1999/nfldraft/news/1999/04/16/king_10things/

McClain's column today has an indirection mention of Young's lack of preparedness for last weekend ..... he also takes a veiled shot at Bush .... enjoy (or not) ...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3701722.html

Napa Auto Parts
03-05-2006, 12:49 PM
"Those scouts point out that when the Rose Bowl was on the line in the fourth quarter, coach Pete Carroll had White in the game and Bush on the bench."


He must really want vince young i dont really care who our QB as long as its not david carr im not like every other VY lover.

infantrycak
03-07-2006, 11:41 AM
Lance Zerlein just said he received an e-mail from a league source confirming the 2nd Vince Young Wonderlic score was a 15.

thunderkyss
03-07-2006, 12:34 PM
"Those scouts point out that when the Rose Bowl was on the line in the fourth quarter, coach Pete Carroll had White in the game and Bush on the bench."


He must really want vince young i dont really care who our QB as long as its not david carr im not like every other VY lover.


Yeah, and unlike those other VY lovers, I actually wanted to see David Carr start next season.... the First 8 games no questions asked..... but I'd like to see Vince(most of all), or Jay Cutler, or Omar Jacobs, and even possibly Reggie Mcneal waiting to start the last 8 games if Carr doesn't win at least 4 out of those first 8......

Coach C.
03-07-2006, 12:48 PM
I'd like to see Reggie McNeal catching passes in the slot from David Carr. VY, Cutler, and Jacobs are not needed and I really dont care what they are doing. I guess one of them will be nice to use on Madden 07 though.

thunderkyss
03-07-2006, 01:24 PM
I'd like to see Reggie McNeal catching passes in the slot from David Carr. VY, Cutler, and Jacobs are not needed and I really dont care what they are doing. I guess one of them will be nice to use on Madden 07 though.
two years......... we'll be looking for a quarterback, and loosing alot of games till then.

SESupergenius
03-07-2006, 01:34 PM
I really wouldn't put too much in him scoring a 16 on the wonderlic considering he really wasn't going to participate in the combine to begin with. However, that still wouldn't excuse him for being a dummy in taking the test to begin with when he wasn't prepared.

jerek
03-08-2006, 11:21 AM
I really wouldn't put too much in him scoring a 16 on the wonderlic considering he really wasn't going to participate in the combine to begin with. However, that still wouldn't excuse him for being a dummy in taking the test to begin with when he wasn't prepared.

That is my issue with the whole fiasco. Someone wrote about it on Page 2 on ESPN not long back, and I completely agree: in short, it isn't that Vince scored a 6 or a 16, it isn't that I could give a chimp a broken pencil and he could do better, it's the fact that Vince or his agent should well have known better than to send the guy (apparently completely unprepared) into a standardized test that he could have spent, oh I don't know? 15 minutes? studying for.

You go to the combine to impress - or if you are going to abstain from most of the drills, as most of the big boys do - to 'not lose stock.' Vince notching a sub-retarded score did nothing to help him 'not lose stock.' While I think these predictions of falling to the mid or even out of first round are classic overcompensation, I think it is accurate to say that this is one of a series of events that are causing NFL front offices to seriously question the guy. It is that kind of decision making that is disturbing, and while it is not some catch-all indicator for NFL success or off-field character/presence, it is just bad business, plain and simple, and it is putting Vince Young and all of his upside on an increasingly shorter leash.

tulexan
03-08-2006, 11:27 AM
I really don't even buy that he wasn't prepared. You shouldn't have to prepare for this test. That is like studying to take a brain teaser on the back of a Frosted Flakes box.

jerek
03-08-2006, 11:29 AM
I really don't even buy that he wasn't prepared. You shouldn't have to prepare for this test. That is like studying to take a brain teaser on the back of a Frosted Flakes box.

Lol ... pretty much. I was just working with one of the rumors and trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I mean, maybe he has some kind of learning disability ... fine, I would not make fun of the guy for it ... but come on, that test was easy. I scored 10 out of 10 in just over a minute on a sample I found online on the Wonderlich (sp) site.

Vinny
03-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Bears General Manager Jerry Angelo thinks Young is the bpa. Making fun of people for a rumored test score is pretty High Schoolish...funny stuff guys, keep it up.
Top prospect: During a seminar at the Fan Convention, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo revealed that he believes that Texas quarterback Vince Young is the best player in the draft. http://chicagobears.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=14546

jerek
03-08-2006, 11:40 AM
Bears General Manager Jerry Angelo thinks Young is the bpa. Making fun of people for a rumored test score is pretty High Schoolish...funny stuff guys, keep it up.
http://chicagobears.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=14546

BPA, in my thought, depends on if you are talking about now or the future. I think Vince could possibly be BPA in terms of upside, but as far as right now, my answer is hell no. He is not the most NFL-ready quarterback, let alone player. My :twocents: , but we've been over this before.

thunderkyss
03-08-2006, 01:00 PM
BPA, in my thought, depends on if you are talking about now or the future. I think Vince could possibly be BPA in terms of upside, but as far as right now, my answer is hell no. He is not the most NFL-ready quarterback, let alone player. My :twocents: , but we've been over this before.


AT QB, I've never liked the idea of starting rookies. I know it's worked out well, for some. Aikman, Manning(Peyton), etc... but it hasn't for many(including David Carr. @ the time, I thought it was cool, but looking back I wish we had started Banks.... not because I think Banks would have done any better, but then we'd have a beat up old man, and a fresh Carr, hopefully without the bad habits he's picked up). So, this NFL ready argument doesn't hold much water with me.


Granted, if I were a HC, I'd let Matt compete for the starting job, but there's no way I'd let him start week 1...... most likely week 5 or 6, where I wouldn't start Vince, unless we are past week 8, and the seasons a wash.

cuppacoffee
03-09-2006, 12:00 PM
two years......... we'll be looking for a quarterback, and loosing alot of games till then.


OT: thunderkyss....Kinda wondering about something?

When the PAISD decided to combine the Jackets and Bees' I expected PA to compete for the State Championship regularly.

What happened?

Whats wrong with the PA Titans?

Sorry QBs' or less than stellar coaching?

Team just not good enough?

Hope my point isn't too obvious here. :challenge

Of course it was a long time between winning seasons for my Shamrocks too.(class of 58 ). Last time the 'Rocks' played for state we were defeated by............("from the bbhs web site")

"In the State Finals, the Shamrocks-fashioned comeback effort was not enough though, as the Houston St. Pious Panthers (led by Gary Kubiak) downed the 'Rocks 21-13." ...:cool: I guess.

:coffee:

What this has to do with VY scoring a 6....I haven't a clue.

thunderkyss
03-10-2006, 12:56 AM
OT: thunderkyss....Kinda wondering about something?

When the PAISD decided to combine the Jackets and Bees' I expected PA to compete for the State Championship regularly.

What happened?

Whats wrong with the PA Titans?


Don't worry, your point isn't too obvious. If we're saying build a team around Carr with some good coaching, and we'll get to the superbowl, I have to disagree with you. Our line looked bad, was bad...... our recievers dropped balls, and we only picked up 1800 yards rushing the ball, 300 of which came from David Carr. I'm saying if you replace Carr with Young, a lot of those busted plays would have been positive yardage...... I'll get slammed, but I think Harrington would've done a better job here. He's a gammer, and doesn't give up on plays. He's a playmaker.

We wouldn't have had 68 sacks, even if 48 of those are attributed to the Offensive line. Jake's line would have been credited with more sacks had Jake not been able to get out of the pocket, and do something with the ball.

We've got playmaker's on offense. I'd like to fix our O-line, with FA picks. I don't think we are going to get what I want, but it looks like Kubiak has a similar plan. We'll get some Offensive Line help in the draft, but I don't think he'll be looking to use the #1 overall on the line. With David's arm, AJs speed, and DDs consistency, we'll have enough to be formidible..... of course we have to give him time. Coming from Denver, I think Kubes has some plans for giving Carr more time. So we'll be competitive next year on offense. If I were Kubes, I'd go for Mario..... Then the best tightend/LB available with our next two picks.

But if we get a JohnAbraham in FA, and he's inclined to use the #1 on an outstanding Talent, I'd pick Vince.

Or maybe take D'Brick, and move Pitts to RG/RT...


Oh Yeah, 'bout dem Memorial Titans...... man things have been upside down over here since the merger. the school board is divided, and there's a power struggle going on. We've got talent, and we got the coach we wanted. well, a lot of us wanted. But our program overall is hurting us...

infantrycak
03-10-2006, 01:30 AM
I'll get slammed, but I think Harrington would've done a better job here.

Well that makes perfect sense. I mean Harrington only had a lower QB rating, completion % and TD/INT ratio where he was than Carr last year--oh and was working for an offensive minded coach. Of course coming to Houston would have been a huge boost to his production.

cuppacoffee
03-10-2006, 12:24 PM
Oh Yeah, 'bout dem Memorial Titans...... man things have been upside down over here since the merger. the school board is divided, and there's a power struggle going on. We've got talent, and we got the coach we wanted. well, a lot of us wanted. But our program overall is hurting us...

Jammal.......not thats a talent that doesn't come around too often.

Think he will be up there in the Bush Peterson class when all is said and done?

thunderkyss
03-10-2006, 04:08 PM
Well that makes perfect sense. I mean Harrington only had a lower QB rating, completion % and TD/INT ratio where he was than Carr last year--oh and was working for an offensive minded coach. Of course coming to Houston would have been a huge boost to his production.


I think Joey is better outside the pocket, than Carr is. I think Joey, and Carr's careers would have looked totally different, had their fortunes in the 2002 draft would have been different. But we'll never know. Looking back, at stats after the fact, doesn't really address the argument. Let's look at their playing, and their stats before the draft. Let's see what they had to deal with in their first four years....... the problems Joey had in Detroit, is their anything about Carr, that would have allowed him to do better in Detroit?? I don't know. Maybe.

Is there anything about Joer, that would've benefitted a Texans QB in that time?? I think so.

Kaiser Toro
03-10-2006, 04:12 PM
Jammal.......not thats a talent that doesn't come around too often.

Think he will be up there in the Bush Peterson class when all is said and done?

Do you mean Jamaal Charles of UT or someone else?

cuppacoffee
03-11-2006, 12:31 AM
Do you mean Jamaal Charles of UT or someone else?

Yes, Jamaal Charles, I missed the typo using the word not instead of now in speaking of his talent.

Was discussing the Port Arthur Titans with Thunderkyss who, like Jammal, is from P.A.

Kid has all the makings of a great running back, IMHO of course.

Now don't ask me how I got this into a VY wonderlic thread..:woot2

Kaiser Toro
03-11-2006, 09:32 AM
Yes, Jamaal Charles, I missed the typo using the word not instead of now in speaking of his talent.

Was discussing the Port Arthur Titans with Thunderkyss who, like Jammal, is from P.A.

Kid has all the makings of a great running back, IMHO of course.

Now don't ask me how I got this into a VY wonderlic thread..:woot2

I wasn't trying to do a gotcha, just getting it confrmed before I answer. I love the kid, best back I have seen in a while with that style of running. He has great feet, very patient, vision and terrific balance. And yeah he has speed, but it is that patience I love especially as a true freshman. If the kid can stay healthy he will be a top 5 pick. He reminds me of, only for stylistic comparisions, a hybrid of Priest Holmes and LT.

thunderkyss
03-12-2006, 06:31 PM
I only watched two of his games at Memorial P.A. we all thought he was great to watch, and figured he'd do pretty good in college.

We were surprised that UT was interested....

we got together to watch his first game, but didn't expect to see much of him. Through various sorces, he was relaying to us, that Mack Brown wasn't going to let him see much time in 2005. After watching his first game, we had a feeling Mack was going to have to re-think that. So we ended up watching all the UT games together. And it was a really really sweet season.

I was able to see Vince Young, who impressed me in the 2004 RoseBowl. But I didn't expect much different in the 2005 season...... run..... draw........ run...... easy pass across the middle.

Another sweet surprise..... Vince went off. Every other week, they made a point to mention he worked the offseason with McNair.... something he's done for a while. That impressed me. not working with McNair, but working on his game..... in his offseason.

Every now and again, they talked about his challenge to his team.... I was impressed once again..... Not the challenge, but the fact that he was already doing everything the coaches expected of him, but still he was going to work on his game, and he invited his teammates to join in.

Just watching him play. it was hard not to notice, that when protection broke down, and it did on a regular basis, Vince would keep his eyes downfield. He moved around the pocket well, till it was time to get out..... still looking downfield, he'd often find the open reciever for the big play(nobody can shut down a reciever for 10-15 seconds.... nobody, no matter the talent disparity). His poise, vision, and field awareness was uncanny.

I confess. I haven't watched any Matt Lienart games, or Reggie Bush games. Well, I watched the Rosebowl, and some other forgetable USC game. So I haven't given them the same consideration as I've afforde Vince. So you wn't find me bad mouthing Matt, or Bush(unless you call comparisons to Carr and Faulk/Westbrook bad mouthing)

I and many others believe QB is a big questionmark on our offense. As such it would make sense to take a QB in the draft, if there is that incredible talent available. If Lienart is that good a prospect........ equal to Vince in upside potential, then yeah you take Matt.

But since we've extended Carr's contract, and committed to giving Carr every opportunity to succeed, it would be detremental to Carr, to bring Matt in with the #1 overall. But Vince, who is a project..... a project, I think is worthy of the #1 pick)..... Now, I'm not an NFL scout..... I don't even know who the top ten prospects are. I have no NLF insiders feeding me information. I haven't studied McNair/Kubiak/Sherman to have a real understanding of what they want to accomplish in the draft... (it'd been nice, if they had published a report card of our team).

But I can see Vince succeding in Denver... I can see Sherman drawing all kinds of comparisons to Favre.


I can see Vince in Houston, real easy.

but my tell-tell sign, was Jonathan Wells. If we had retained him on our team, I figured we'd be going after Vince. If we let him go...... More than likely that means Bush.......... I really like DD. and tought he could be our Emmit.... but I don't see that happening if Reggie does in fact come to Houston. They might share the backfield for a year, but I think DD should be a featured back somewhere in this league.