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HomeBred_Texan
02-24-2006, 05:34 PM
I mean, if we didn't draft 1 single person this year and played all the starters from last year, it is my honest opinion that with the coaching staff that has been hired now, they would do much, much better. So to me, I personally think we are going to be in a great situation next year. No, I don't think we are going super bowl or anything like that, but I do see us being a contender and a team to be reckoned with. I am still confident that we have some really good players, but lacked sufficent (sp?) coaching to take it the step farther.

But 1 thing is for sure....

We will have allot of answers about our personnel after next season because we cannot blame the coaching staff anymore. So it is time for all of the Texan players to put up or shut up, LOL.....

Long live the Texans.........

Fan forever......

thunderkyss
02-24-2006, 06:27 PM
Bad coaching can mess up your season....... no doubt about that. 2-14...... the players had to have something to do with that for sure... from top to bottom.

There is however one player who had his hands on the ball after every snap.... he's the one who is supposed to make everyone on the team look better, but he has a hard time making himself look adequate.

I believe there are two types of quarterbacks in this league.

The "Don't Mess it Up" quarterbacks........ you can win some games with these guys on our team. The rest of your team, defense especially, will have to play big...... but hey, they're getting paid too.

The " Field General" type..... these guys play at another level.... they make you want to play better..... they make your job easier, wether you're a wide reciever, a running back, or an offensive lineman. They lead you to were you want to go.

TexansTrueFan
02-24-2006, 06:29 PM
i dont they we were near as bad as we played last season ! it just our coaches didnt give us the chance to win.

dat_boy_yec
02-24-2006, 08:07 PM
Bad coaching can mess up your season....... no doubt about that. 2-14...... the players had to have something to do with that for sure... from top to bottom.

There is however one player who had his hands on the ball after every snap.... he's the one who is supposed to make everyone on the team look better, but he has a hard time making himself look adequate.

I believe there are two types of quarterbacks in this league.

The "Don't Mess it Up" quarterbacks........ you can win some games with these guys on our team. The rest of your team, defense especially, will have to play big...... but hey, they're getting paid too.

The " Field General" type..... these guys play at another level.... they make you want to play better..... they make your job easier, wether you're a wide reciever, a running back, or an offensive lineman. They lead you to were you want to go.

Get off the gas man, you really think Carr is that messed up. You think those games near the end of the season where he called the plays at the line and moved them up and down the field were flukes. You think he didn't read the defense on those occassions and make right decisions. I can agree Carr can improve and he isn't the best QB in the league but to blame the guy the way you just did is warped and twisted. Ok look at Brady what makes you think he's considered a great QB is it really his talent or those surrounding him. You can't answer that because you can't separate where he shines and where the team shines, it's a team sport and if you say one person makes the difference it's the coach and that problem has already been solved.(or at least dealt with) Two types of quarterbacks my ***, point out to me what quarterbacks just get by with that don't mess up idea of yours.

swtbound07
02-24-2006, 08:18 PM
Get off the gas man, you really think Carr is that messed up. You think those games near the end of the season where he called the plays at the line and moved them up and down the field were flukes. You think he didn't read the defense on those occassions and make right decisions. I can agree Carr can improve and he isn't the best QB in the league but to blame the guy the way you just did is warped and twisted. Ok look at Brady what makes you think he's considered a great QB is it really his talent or those surrounding him. You can't answer that because you can't separate where he shines and where the team shines, it's a team sport and if you say one person makes the difference it's the coach and that problem has already been solved.(or at least dealt with) Two types of quarterbacks my ***, point out to me what quarterbacks just get by with that don't mess up idea of yours.


Kyle Boller

C-Note
02-24-2006, 08:37 PM
[/B]


Kyle Boller

That is the perfect answer....

Kyle is my boy though!:twocents:

TitansGiantsBears
02-24-2006, 08:38 PM
I believe there are two types of quarterbacks in this league.



Me too!

You have those who sit behind great offensive lines and have time to make adequate decisions. These guys usually play in Pro Bowls and the playoffs. And every year one of them wins the Super Bowl.

Then you have the guys who are forced to run for their lives because protection breaks down on every other play. The game doesn't slow down for them the way it does for the guys in the group above. They improve but the hard work is offset by being hit eight or ten times per game and laying on your back another four or five. (Or more).


Right now your team has the latter. Carr will be an excellent QB in this league. He has the talent, the skills, and has proven he's tough both physically and mentally. Our division is blessed to have two great young QBs in Carr and Leftwich. I love watching both of these guys play. Even when they kill us with a play, I respect their talents.

Even the league's top QB's have problems when someone is in their face every play. Look at Manning. Look at what Seattle did to an on fire Delhomme. If the defense has the opportunity to dictate to the offense, the QB looks bad.

Your team's troubles aren't at QB.

Big B Texan Fan
02-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Two types of quarterbacks my ***, point out to me what quarterbacks just get by with that don't mess up idea of yours.
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Mark Rypien
all won SB's, only one a piece

On the other hand there's:
Favre
Montana
Brady
Aikman
Elway
S. Young
Simms
all field generals with SB's as well as most of them have mutiple SB trips and multiple SB wins.

Over the past 15-18 years, the odds of a team with a "Field General Type" are more likely to get to a SB as well as win it.

The only odd men out is:
Warner who IMO was neither a field general type nor a don't mess up kinda guy.
and
Ben R-Berger who I haven't quite figured out if he's a true leader or just a good player on a great team.

Question is, can Carr be like any of these guys? Can we develope a D that was as good as the Bucs D or even the Ravens D. That was what got those teams to the SB as well as win it.
Or
Can Carr be like the "Field Generals"?
Or Can Carr be like the odd men out.

I just don't see it. As a matter of fact the only comparisons I'm coming up with are those of the SB losing QB's:
Hasslebeck
Kerry Collins
Drew 'The Statue" Bledsoe with wheels.

sax_49
02-25-2006, 07:45 AM
I mean, if we didn't draft 1 single person this year and played all the starters from last year, it is my honest opinion that with the coaching staff that has been hired now, they would do much, much better. So to me, I personally think we are going to be in a great situation next year. No, I don't think we are going super bowl or anything like that, but I do see us being a contender and a team to be reckoned with. I am still confident that we have some really good players, but lacked sufficent (sp?) coaching to take it the step farther.

But 1 thing is for sure....

We will have allot of answers about our personnel after next season because we cannot blame the coaching staff anymore. So it is time for all of the Texan players to put up or shut up, LOL.....

Long live the Texans.........

Fan forever......

I have to agree with you on this post. This coaching staff will make a difference. Rod Smith stated that Kubiak put his players in position to succeed. He said Kubiak figured out what a players strengths and weaknesses were and used them accordingly. IMO the last coaching staff had lost the players after a couple of games last year.

JohnGalt
02-25-2006, 07:47 AM
What would you consider this quarterback to be?

Pct Yards TD Int Rating
61.3 3881 20 29 70.9

This looks like a don't mess up kind of guy right?

WRONG!!! This is Brett "3-time MVP" Favre. Who still is one of my top five QB's in the NFL.

Green Bay injuries at RB, TE, and a shuffled OL. Does this sound familiar?

MightyTExan
02-25-2006, 08:31 AM
The only thing I don't see from Carr is the confidence to stand in the pocket(when he has time) and make the throw. Look at how Brady and even Brunell almost look like a baseball pitcher sometimes when they throw the ball. The confidence to expose their bodies like that when 5 or 6 250-300lb guys are all coming for you.

Spoda
02-25-2006, 10:11 AM
Bad coaching can mess up your season....... no doubt about that. 2-14...... the players had to have something to do with that for sure... from top to bottom.

There is however one player who had his hands on the ball after every snap.... he's the one who is supposed to make everyone on the team look better, but he has a hard time making himself look adequate.

I believe there are two types of quarterbacks in this league.

The "Don't Mess it Up" quarterbacks........ you can win some games with these guys on our team. The rest of your team, defense especially, will have to play big...... but hey, they're getting paid too.

The " Field General" type..... these guys play at another level.... they make you want to play better..... they make your job easier, wether you're a wide reciever, a running back, or an offensive lineman. They lead you to were you want to go.

VY VY VY VY VY VY...please make him stop!!

Tale Gator
02-25-2006, 10:59 AM
The Texans are lacking in talent and leadership in many key areas -- the new coaching staff is a great start, but we still have serious holes to fill.

Scooter
02-25-2006, 04:21 PM
poor coaching alone isnt going to get you 4 consecutive losing seasons with last year being 2-14. we have some talent, but not nearly enough. the loss of aaron glenn & jamie sharper hurt our defense significantly, and adding riley into what was a weakness, turned the left side into a black hole. we started phillip buchannon and several late round picks in the backfield ... enough said. bruener was supposed to be a backup and used primarily as a blocker, but ended up being our only tight end. pitts, weigert, and mckinney have been together 4 years, that's plenty of time to "gel" and yet they havent so it becomes a talent issue.

i do think coaching can get a lot more out of the guys that we have, but coaching alone isnt going to turn what we have now around. especially since we dont even know who kubiak plans on keeping.

Texas
02-25-2006, 04:49 PM
Very well said...I beleive half of our crappy season was based on our bad coaching...However the team seemed to have give up also making it even harder for us to win...I think this season will prove whether its our coaching or our players...I beleive and hope it was just the poor coaching.

cuppacoffee
02-25-2006, 04:51 PM
Bad coaching can mess up your season....... no doubt about that. 2-14...... the players had to have something to do with that for sure... from top to bottom.

There is however one player who had his hands on the ball after every snap.... he's the one who is supposed to make everyone on the team look better, but he has a hard time making himself look adequate.

I believe there are two types of quarterbacks in this league.

The "Don't Mess it Up" quarterbacks........ you can win some games with these guys on our team. The rest of your team, defense especially, will have to play big...... but hey, they're getting paid too.

The " Field General" type..... these guys play at another level.... they make you want to play better..... they make your job easier, wether you're a wide reciever, a running back, or an offensive lineman. They lead you to were you want to go.

WOW...Wonder who your "Field General type" is? Let me make a wild *** guess.

Didn't take long to turn this thread into a VY thread did it?

FYI..VY and his agent are doing just fine promoting him without any help from MB posters. :brickwall

I don't clik on any posts that I even remotely think VY is going to be discussed, but the VY lovers still manage to turn almost every post that directon. :deadhorse

Geezz, give it a break!

Lets discuss our second round pick.

Who is your favorite MLB or Tight End that didn't go to UT?

:coffee:

BradK10
02-25-2006, 05:46 PM
we need help on defense, plain and simple....it's atrocious, zero playmaking LBs

TexanSam
02-25-2006, 06:13 PM
I mean, if we didn't draft 1 single person this year and played all the starters from last year, it is my honest opinion that with the coaching staff that has been hired now, they would do much, much better. So to me, I personally think we are going to be in a great situation next year. No, I don't think we are going super bowl or anything like that, but I do see us being a contender and a team to be reckoned with. I am still confident that we have some really good players, but lacked sufficent (sp?) coaching to take it the step farther.

But 1 thing is for sure....

We will have allot of answers about our personnel after next season because we cannot blame the coaching staff anymore. So it is time for all of the Texan players to put up or shut up, LOL.....

Long live the Texans.........

Fan forever......

I'll bring this topic back to what it was meant for. Make another thread if you guys want to argue all about Carr.

I wish I could share your optimism on this one HomeBred. If we had the exact same team, I think at most we would win 6 games. Now that is improved from 2-14, but there's too many holes on this team. Here's a few

Wide Reciever: Andre Johnson and...that's it. Mathis isn't there yet, don't know if he ever will be, but he has to speed to be a playmaker. Bradford was, well, Bradford. He's shown us why he was never anything more than the 3rd reciever in Green Bay. Gaffney could be a pretty decent 3rd reciever, but he's not a #2 guy. Armstrong could catch everything, I'm not sure about his speed. The Texans should have put him in there more often though, it's not like we could have done much worse with him in there.

Tight End: Not since Billy Miller that first year have we had a decent tight end. Not one. Marcellus Rivers didn't exactly light the world on fire. Mark Bruehner is more of a blocking TE, but that sure seemed to help Carr a lot...

Offensive Line: Victor Riley, Fred Weary, and some guy named Todd Washington have all started on the offensive line for the Texans at some point in time. Enough said.

Cornerback: Phillip Buchanan, the not-so mirror image of Deion Sanders, played awful every game he was in last season. His best play against the Browns was saving the TD pass. He's lucky he has a 30 inch vertical leap. Demarcus Faggins was probably a little better, but he played like a bad player on a bad defense. At least we have one good player here in Dunta Robinson though.

You could probably name a couple of other weaknesses in almost every other position if you wanted, but those are some of the glaring one's IMO. I don't think we would be much better if we didn't improve at least a couple of those positions in the offseason.

swtbound07
02-25-2006, 07:18 PM
the thing that worries me is that we have no proof our players will respond any better to this coach then the last one.....all we can do is wait and hope

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 07:23 PM
the thing that worries me is that we have no proof our players will respond any better to this coach then the last one.....all we can do is wait and hope


The good thing about what you just said is that we can replace the players that don't respond with players that will. IMO there are a few that need to be replaced.

Tulip
02-25-2006, 07:24 PM
I'm not going to disagree, because I was strongly on the side of blaming coaching over personnel last season. I think the current personnel can do much better than 2-14. But the question is - "how much better?" Better than 7-9? Hard to tell.

thunderkyss
02-25-2006, 08:34 PM
Get off the gas man, you really think Carr is that messed up. You think those games near the end of the season where he called the plays at the line and moved them up and down the field were flukes. You think he didn't read the defense on those occassions and make right decisions. I can agree Carr can improve and he isn't the best QB in the league but to blame the guy the way you just did is warped and twisted. Ok look at Brady what makes you think he's considered a great QB is it really his talent or those surrounding him. You can't answer that because you can't separate where he shines and where the team shines, it's a team sport and if you say one person makes the difference it's the coach and that problem has already been solved.(or at least dealt with) Two types of quarterbacks my ***, point out to me what quarterbacks just get by with that don't mess up idea of yours.
That messed up... ?? when did I say he was that messed up?? I said you can't blame just the coach, if your team went 2-14..... the players didn't help the situation.
I said David Carr is supposed to make the other players on the team look better than they are........ David has a hard time making himself look decent.

Then I said there are two types of QBs...... YOu don't agree with that, that's cool........




What would you consider this quarterback to be?

Pct Yards TD Int Rating
61.3 3881 20 29 70.9

This looks like a don't mess up kind of guy right?

WRONG!!! This is Brett "3-time MVP" Favre. Who still is one of my top five QB's in the NFL.

Green Bay injuries at RB, TE, and a shuffled OL. Does this sound familiar?

Brett is the perfect example. He had a poor team this year, but you could still see who was in charge of the offense..... Even the Defense rallies around Brett....

He had a bad year......... He made some stupid throws.... but he's got that it.

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 10:00 PM
That messed up... ?? when did I say he was that messed up?? I said you can't blame just the coach, if your team went 2-14..... the players didn't help the situation.
I said David Carr is supposed to make the other players on the team look better than they are........ David has a hard time making himself look decent.

Then I said there are two types of QBs...... YOu don't agree with that, that's cool........






Brett is the perfect example. He had a poor team this year, but you could still see who was in charge of the offense..... Even the Defense rallies around Brett....

He had a bad year......... He made some stupid throws.... but he's got that it.


Carr is supposed to make his team look good!! Come on guy, lets get real here ok. If he had a good team the team as a whole would look good. It's not up to Carr to make his team look good. Everyone on the field has to do there part in order to make Carr look good, which will make there recieving corps look good, there line, RB's everyone would look good. Funny how now he did not make his team look good, when in all reality they all looked really bad. I did not know this was a one man team.

HJam72
02-25-2006, 10:26 PM
It's very possible that 8-8 is about the most this group of players is capable of, but I have no doubt that we now have a much better coaching staff which will ensure that we don't go 2-14 again and we also have a good opportunity to add talent to this team. Things will change. The question is simply at what pace.

thunderkyss
02-26-2006, 12:34 AM
Carr is supposed to make his team look good!! Come on guy, lets get real here ok. If he had a good team the team as a whole would look good. It's not up to Carr to make his team look good. Everyone on the field has to do there part in order to make Carr look good, which will make there recieving corps look good, there line, RB's everyone would look good. Funny how now he did not make his team look good, when in all reality they all looked really bad. I did not know this was a one man team.


The point is, that it isn't just the team that looks bad, David himself looks bad. With some coaching, he may look decent, maybe better. If he is supposed to take us to the superbowl, he shouldn't look like a rookie in his fourth year. He should look like a QB waiting for his team to be built around him.

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 12:03 PM
The point is, that it isn't just the team that looks bad, David himself looks bad. With some coaching, he may look decent, maybe better. If he is supposed to take us to the superbowl, he shouldn't look like a rookie in his fourth year. He should look like a QB waiting for his team to be built around him.
No, let's get to the "real" point here on Carr. When he was able to call his "own" plays, few and far in between, he moved the team north and south. When Capers and co. called the plays, we went into a stale mate. Now can you possibly put the entire blame on him? That is only because you are wearing a set of VY blinders and the kid cannot even play in the NFL for several years. If Carr is the reason for our failures, then it will show up big time next season and we will have a high draft pick again to pick up a high caliber QB who may could start. But don't hand me a hand full of crap about VY and tell me it is apple pie. I am not buying, don't want it, and I can't use it.......

Koolbrz
02-26-2006, 12:25 PM
The point is, that it isn't just the team that looks bad, David himself looks bad. With some coaching, he may look decent, maybe better. If he is supposed to take us to the superbowl, he shouldn't look like a rookie in his fourth year. He should look like a QB waiting for his team to be built around him.


Can you please tell me what DC looked like the yr. before. IMO he had a good yr. and was on an up and coming team...right? Everyone was talking playoffs. The whole team as in offense, defense and the coaching was horrible, so know everyone wants DC out of Houston. If you are honestly a true Texan fan you will take the good with the bad and support the players that are on the team. I really do hope that DC has a really good yr. so that he can make all you nay sayers eat your words. Funny how when he was calling his own plays the team was moving up and down the field. Coaching staff decides to take over and they start playing this conservative BS. Saying that i will say this, expect DC to look better than decent this coming yr. He will be on a mission to win back all the fans that have jumped ship. I'm not saying he is gonna get us to the SB next yr, but there will be much more improvment.

thunderkyss
02-27-2006, 09:41 AM
When Training Camp starts, I'm going to be behind everyone of the guys.... when we get to the 52 man roster, I'm going to stop supporting some of them. Just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean that I have to be all goo-goo, gah-gah over everyone of our players.
Why don't you use this same kind of argument with people who bash, Weary, Buchanon, Peak, Babin, Faggins, Bradford, Wade, Payne, Pitts, etc...

Lat year, I think he played well, for maybe 10 games....... he played well. we had 1/2 a game this year, where he played well. every other game(1/2) he didn't. he did stupid crap.... throw the ball, take a sack, how hard can that be?? I wasn't (& I'm sure nobody was) expecting him to take us to the superbowl last year.... I was expecting Playoffs, but things happened, and I understand....... but David Carr didn't play well. he played better his first year.

You don't want to draft Vince Young....... you really want to help Carr out?? Trade down....... even if we have to go all the way down to the 22nd pick. But seriously consider the QB position if David is sub-par next year.

I don't care, if we are 12-4, or 7-9...... if really look at David, if he is sub-par, let's get a real alternative at QB.

sangien
02-27-2006, 09:45 AM
We need to add a few parts and we will be compete with the rest of the teams. Bennis is like a new draft pick, this is his year to shine, Brick solidifies line with Chester on the right side. We get a DE and trade a tackle to get the Dline together. We add an a Power back plus corner and we are in buisness.

HJam72
02-27-2006, 10:20 AM
When Training Camp starts, I'm going to be behind everyone of the guys.... when we get to the 52 man roster, I'm going to stop supporting some of them. Just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean that I have to be all goo-goo, gah-gah over everyone of our players.
Why don't you use this same kind of argument with people who bash, Weary, Buchanon, Peak, Babin, Faggins, Bradford, Wade, Payne, Pitts, etc...

Lat year, I think he played well, for maybe 10 games....... he played well. we had 1/2 a game this year, where he played well. every other game(1/2) he didn't. he did stupid crap.... throw the ball, take a sack, how hard can that be?? I wasn't (& I'm sure nobody was) expecting him to take us to the superbowl last year.... I was expecting Playoffs, but things happened, and I understand....... but David Carr didn't play well. he played better his first year.

You don't want to draft Vince Young....... you really want to help Carr out?? Trade down....... even if we have to go all the way down to the 22nd pick. But seriously consider the QB position if David is sub-par next year.

I don't care, if we are 12-4, or 7-9...... if really look at David, if he is sub-par, let's get a real alternative at QB.

There is reason for that and his name is Joe Pendry. He blew it as an O-line coach and then he got promoted and went on to screw up the whole offense. The offense also had fewer opportunities, it seems, because the defense fell off when we lost Jamie Sharper and, especially, Glenn.

I do understand that Carr screws up sometimes. I'm not saying that he's perfect, for sure, but I really believe his team and especially his coaches have made him look bad when he's actually a good, solid QB. Not great, but good. I think you'll see major improvement by the second half of this season out of him and the future after that will be shocking in comparison to last year.

Vince Young will also be a great QB, but it's not going to happen immediately. Matt Leinhart will be even better anyway. Just watch.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
02-27-2006, 12:52 PM
i dont they we were near as bad as we played last season ! it just our coaches didn’t give us the chance to win.

Our defense spent a lot of time running onto the field... right up until they scored on us. I still don't know if our defense stunk that bad (beyond the most glaring mistake seen in trading for P-Buch!) except on third down.

But at our home games ...the fans (and visiting opponents fans) where able to call the offensive plays 80% of the time! The overall game plan by the coaches amounted to being orchestrated by a castrato contributing to an impotent offense featuring a whole lot of "three downs and punt". Firing the coaches was a good start. :redtowel:

HoustonFrog
02-27-2006, 01:00 PM
Coaching can only get you so far. They can take a pretty good talent over the edge but at the NFL level you have to have talent. If they make it this far they obviously excelled at the earlier levels. You can't teach guys with a motor and who love the game. We are severely malnutritioned with playmakers. The team we have now might win a few more games with better coaching but we still don't have the talent. It is just the facts when you are 2-14.

phan1
02-27-2006, 02:50 PM
I mean, if we didn't draft 1 single person this year and played all the starters from last year, it is my honest opinion that with the coaching staff that has been hired now, they would do much, much better. So to me, I personally think we are going to be in a great situation next year. No, I don't think we are going super bowl or anything like that, but I do see us being a contender and a team to be reckoned with. I am still confident that we have some really good players, but lacked sufficent (sp?) coaching to take it the step farther.

But 1 thing is for sure....

We will have allot of answers about our personnel after next season because we cannot blame the coaching staff anymore. So it is time for all of the Texan players to put up or shut up, LOL.....

Long live the Texans.........

Fan forever......

I think you're wrong there. If we didn't get better players, I say we'd be about a 5 to 6-win team. We won 7 games 2 seasons ago, but we lost Sharper and Glenn. Our defense was just horrid last season, and teams were able to run the ball on us like we were the joke of the league (which we were). While our offense could be average if we retained the same personel, our defense would still suck as much as last season. Yean, I know we had a crappy D-cood, but when teams run the ball on you at will, that's a personel issue, not a coaching issue.