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TexanFanInCC
02-20-2006, 12:24 PM
the more i think about it, and the more i hear about VY's capabilities, the more i start to sway from reggie over to VY. david carr is on the early xmas gift list of a lot of clubs, and im sure they see carr's potential. if the texans would like to cross out alot of needs, trade david carr for some major defense help. there are enough free agent o-lineman that would desire coming to htown bc of the change to kubiak. with the reports of vy working out with rohme at rice stadium, all i can wonder about is...man if he lives up to what rohme believes, then we would be perfect here in houston. imagine the talent and fan base going hand in hand....VY would be an absolute icon in houston for many years. one thing that caught my attention was how rohme stated that vy's ability to throw on the run was alot better than we all imagined. everyone believes that vy would struggle with that mainly bc he got to sit behind the best o-line in college football for the past 2 years and take as much time as he needed, but apparently rohme was very impressed. throwing on the run is something im sure kubiak treasures, mainly bc of his work with jake plummer. i believe these workouts that young is having is a showcase to show the texans front office that he has the goods to play under kubiaks system and be an elite QB. besides, VY has that vibe that really sinks in with the other players. he makes others play better bc he helps keep the team relaxed. his work ethic is unmatched and he is always looking forward to getting better. how can the texans NOT draft vince young?

lets think about it. reggie bush is a hell of a talent, and has massive potential, but there are so many other needs on this team, that RB shouldnt be an issue. im satisfied with domanick davis. he averaged 4.2 yds per carry last yr, which is very satisfactory. he just needs more touches. if u trade david carr, u can pick up some pieces to help other areas, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

SESupergenius
02-20-2006, 12:34 PM
FYI, there is no QB controversy. We aren't selecting Young with the #1 pick in the draft.

Feb. 9, 2006 - 10:41 pm et

The Texans exercised QB David Carr's contract option, keeping him with the team through 2008.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3649092.html

Joe Texan
02-20-2006, 03:04 PM
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, Amazing

jerek
02-20-2006, 03:12 PM
SSDD.

Congratulations on repeating the reigning pro-Vince argument verbatim.

"... David Carr would fetch lots in a trade, Vince could and likely will live up all of the hype, surefire, hard worker, fan icon, etc. etc. ..."

Same argument, same problems. Carr isn't cheap, will cost us a small fortune to trade this season, isn't likely to fetch much of consequence as he is still relatively unproven. Vince is still a somewhat-project, will cost us a large fortune (~55M), and is at best a debatably moderate upgrade to a position we are already decent in and committed to contract-wise. Meanwhile we were 2-14 last year (due in large part to coaching, IMO, which we have rectified, but still ...) and we have a lot of ground to cover in this offseason.

If we didn't have a salary cap ...

If we didn't have David Carr on a 3-year, bonus-heavy contract ...

If we didn't have multiple other, far more pressing needs ...

If we couldn't trade this pick or better utilize it to add to this team now ...

Then yes, draft Vince Young. But the problem is, we do have a salary cap, we do have David Carr, we do have other, far more pressing needs, and we can use the pick better somewhere else.

I have stated it a million times, I think Vince will be a good NFL player. But the logistics of the situation - specifically, the Texans situation - dictate he will be a good player somewhere else.

Costs too much (real and opportunity cost) for not enough gain.

Big B Texan Fan
02-20-2006, 03:12 PM
FYI, there is no QB controversy. We aren't selecting Young with the #1 pick in the draft.

Feb. 9, 2006 - 10:41 pm et

The Texans exercised QB David Carr's contract option, keeping him with the team through 2008.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3649092.html
Usually it's the fans deciding if there is a QB controversy. By the way I see it, we've had one since the Browns game 2 seasons ago. When he was booed like the dickens when he was coming back onto the field after he took a play or two off due to some sort of injury, yea. People were booing Carr off the field once the game was over saying things like you suck and etc...

That's when he vehemently went to the coaching staff and demanded a change and he got it. Only problem was he wasn't smart enough QB passing wise to pull off the new system in the pre-season so they botched it and went back to the old system yet to no avail it failed as well. So now he has failed at two different system (look for the open receiver down field and the dink and dunk ((passes to running back don't count)) 2-3 step drop). Now we just had a 2-14 season and everyone else got the blame except for him. I mean for crying out loud, he's 2 commercials w/ Clemons referencing the fact that he's sack prone, that **** ain't funny. Not to mention he was sacked 32 times in his senior season, that's kinda steep if you consider VY and Leinert had less than 20 combined.

Bottom line there is QB controversy, whether it's the traditional kind where you have a vialble back-up or that the guy sux that bad where a change, any change is needed.

bigTEXan8
02-20-2006, 03:22 PM
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, Amazing

What does McNair know anyway. He complains about having a losing team, yet he stood by four 4 years watching his QB get pounded into the ground and seeing Capers run the rest of the team into the ground. Seriously, what would McNair know. Anyone on this board knows more about operations and football in general than McNair. He signs checks, and has yet to prove otherwise.

TexanSam
02-20-2006, 03:33 PM
I'll counter your argument. Yes, we have more pressing needs on this team. Quarterback isn't one of them, and neither is running back. You say trade Carr for some defensive help. I say trade the #1 pick for a defensive starter, move back to the #4 or #5 pick and get a defensive player (AJ Hawk, Mario Williams) or an offensive lineman (Ferguson).

As for Domanick Davis, he averaged 4.2 yards a carry, but he was hurt for about 1/4th of the season. Giving him more touches isn't going to keep him healthy, it's actually the other way around. Give him less touches and he'll stay healthy but be less productive. Give him more touches he has a chance to be more productive but he'll also risk getting hurt, which can and probably will happen. He seems to have more nicks and bruises than any other player on our team, and those bruises are usually more severe.

The Texans don't need another QB. That would make us take longer to build this team up again, and I'm sure we don't want to see 3 more years of losing seasons. I say trade down, but if we had to choose between Reggie Bush and Vince Young, I would choose Reggie Bush. He helps our offense be much more dynamic now, helps take the pressure off Davis, and both of them can be productive immediately, not 3 down the line.

Koolbrz
02-20-2006, 03:41 PM
What does McNair know anyway. He complains about having a losing team, yet he stood by four 4 years watching his QB get pounded into the ground and seeing Capers run the rest of the team into the ground. Seriously, what would McNair know. Anyone on this board knows more about operations and football in general than McNair. He signs checks, and has yet to prove otherwise.


One thing is for sure, McNair upgraded our coaching staff after a miserable yr. You must admit, for an expansion team they were moving along as planned. Until this yr. Changes were made, in the coaching ranks, and upgraded by leaps and bounds IMO. The coaching staff we had was horrible. We now have young, aggressive coaches. I like that. We will now have a more aggressive defense and hopefully offense. We all learn from our mistakes, so will he. Only decision i don't agree with, is him keeping CC. Reeves could do a better job than what CC has done, should have given him the job.

bigTEXan8
02-20-2006, 03:47 PM
One thing is for sure, McNair upgraded our coaching staff after a miserable yr. You must admit, for an expansion team they were moving along as planned. Until this yr. Changes were made, in the coaching ranks, and upgraded by leaps and bounds IMO. The coaching staff we had was horrible. We now have young, aggressive coaches. I like that. We will now have a more aggressive defense and hopefully offense. We all learn from our mistakes, so will he. Only decision i don't agree with, is him keeping CC. Reeves could do a better job than what CC has done, should have given him the job.

You know what...I will give McNair props for that. Even though he couldn't walk five feet without someone probably telling him, "Get Kubiak!!"

Koolbrz
02-20-2006, 04:07 PM
You know what...I will give McNair props for that. Even though he couldn't walk five feet without someone probably telling him, "Get Kubiak!!"


It's okay. I don't care if he couldn't walk 3 ft. without someone telling him to get Kubiak. The point is that he did. Which makes our team better. He is at the very least doing something about the situation.

Meloy
02-20-2006, 04:07 PM
I just hope the front office goes aggressively after F/A market. A corner and one of the OL mentioned in other recent threads added to a good draft can put this team on right track.

Koolbrz
02-20-2006, 04:12 PM
I just hope the front office goes aggressively after F/A market. A corner and one of the OL mentioned in other recent threads added to a good draft can put this team on right track.


I believe they will. They must jump on these guys from day one. Not wait to be 1 mth. into the FA market before signing someone. They will have slim pickins by then.

SESupergenius
02-20-2006, 04:13 PM
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, AmazingWant to put an avatar bet on it Joe "Holier than thou" Texan?

I think that signing Carr speaks for itself and the Team. I'll be looking for you after the 1st pick in the draft.

Double Barrel
02-20-2006, 04:30 PM
What does McNair know anyway. He complains about having a losing team, yet he stood by four 4 years watching his QB get pounded into the ground and seeing Capers run the rest of the team into the ground. Seriously, what would McNair know. Anyone on this board knows more about operations and football in general than McNair. He signs checks, and has yet to prove otherwise.

Mr. McNair complains about a losing team? :um: When?

What does Mr. McNair know...other than how to become a billionaire from nothing, convince the NFL to put in a new team in Houston instead of LA, how to put together financing for $700 million to buy a team, and be a major part of building the first retractable roof football stadium.

And let's see, he promised Houston sports fans that he wouldn't be a meddling owner, but would instead hire football men to run the operations. And when they failed, fire them and hire an entire new coaching staff.

yeah, this board knows more than Mr. McNair....yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight. And that's why everyone on this board works for someone other than a professional football team. :ok:

jerek
02-20-2006, 04:36 PM
Mr. McNair complains about losing team? :um: When?

What does Mr. McNair know...other than how to become a billionaire from nothing, convince the NFL to put in a new team in Houston instead of LA, how to put together financing for $700 million to buy a team, and be a major part of building the first retractable roof football stadium.

And let's see, he promise Houston sports fans that he wouldn't be a meddling owner, but would instead hire football men to run the operations. And when they failed, fire them and hire an entire new coaching staff.

yeah, this board knows more than Mr. McNair....yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight. And that's why everyone on this board works for someone other than a professional football team. :ok:

I wasn't even going to dignify such a stupid comment with a response (the post you were quoting, not you) ... but thanks for saving me the effort.

TreWardTxn
02-20-2006, 04:39 PM
SSDD.

Congratulations on repeating the reigning pro-Vince argument verbatim.

"... David Carr would fetch lots in a trade, Vince could and likely will live up all of the hype, surefire, hard worker, fan icon, etc. etc. ..."

Same argument, same problems. Carr isn't cheap, will cost us a small fortune to trade this season, isn't likely to fetch much of consequence as he is still relatively unproven. Vince is still a somewhat-project, will cost us a large fortune (~55M), and is at best a debatably moderate upgrade to a position we are already decent in and committed to contract-wise. Meanwhile we were 2-14 last year (due in large part to coaching, IMO, which we have rectified, but still ...) and we have a lot of ground to cover in this offseason.

If we didn't have a salary cap ...

If we didn't have David Carr on a 3-year, bonus-heavy contract ...

If we didn't have multiple other, far more pressing needs ...

If we couldn't trade this pick or better utilize it to add to this team now ...

Then yes, draft Vince Young. But the problem is, we do have a salary cap, we do have David Carr, we do have other, far more pressing needs, and we can use the pick better somewhere else.

I have stated it a million times, I think Vince will be a good NFL player. But the logistics of the situation - specifically, the Texans situation - dictate he will be a good player somewhere else.

Costs too much (real and opportunity cost) for not enough gain.


First off, what price are you going to put on having a successful team and building a franchise that is actually respected around the league? How much do you think that is worth to McNair? Believe me, it is much more worth it to him to have the players in place to elevate this team out of NFL purgatory and put butts in Reliant stadium seats, regardless of whether he has to blow up the cap to do so. And interestingly enough, there is a chance the salary cap may be suspended if a new collective bargaining agreement can not be reached by March 3, although all the ramifications this could hold are not yet clear. Whatever the case, to not draft a player who you think could be great and plays what is widley considered the most important position on the field (obviously this is what the FO believes, as they already drafted a QB #1) because you already have another guy playing there, will inevitably blow up in your face and prove to be your ultimate regret. All arguments about Bush helping more, or needing multiple players are meritous, but to argue against a guy on financial grounds (when it applies to the prime position on the team) is highly dubious...

BTW...the "you" is not personally you, but anybody sitting in the FO who might share that sentiment...

TreWardTxn
02-20-2006, 04:40 PM
I just hope the front office goes aggressively after F/A market. A corner and one of the OL mentioned in other recent threads added to a good draft can put this team on right track.


They won't be able to, and neither will any other team for that matter until the CBA is determined...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2006-02-20-cba_x.htm

Wharton
02-20-2006, 04:52 PM
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, Amazing
Unfortunately, SES is most likely speaking the truth and Bob McNair is blowing smoke up you skirt. Once the option contract was executed, the probability of Vince Young landing in a Texans uniform dropped to about 5-10% (IMHO). It just doesn't make sense for the Texans to take that kind of hit to the cap for trade bait.

Actually, I don't think its Bob that’s blowing smoke these days, its Charlie. IMNSHO, having heard/seen Charlie on 610 and ESPN, that Charlie is a rat fink of the highest proportion. I don't know if it was Bob or Dan that got a tail shine from this guy, but someone had too for Charlie to survive last years 2-14 record.

I just hope that Vince signs a three year deal with the Titans.

humbleone
02-20-2006, 05:45 PM
Usually it's the fans deciding if there is a QB controversy. By the way I see it, we've had one since the Browns game 2 seasons ago. When he was booed like the dickens when he was coming back onto the field after he took a play or two off due to some sort of injury, yea. People were booing Carr off the field once the game was over saying things like you suck and etc...

That's when he vehemently went to the coaching staff and demanded a change and he got it. Only problem was he wasn't smart enough QB passing wise to pull off the new system in the pre-season so they botched it and went back to the old system yet to no avail it failed as well. So now he has failed at two different system (look for the open receiver down field and the dink and dunk ((passes to running back don't count)) 2-3 step drop). Now we just had a 2-14 season and everyone else got the blame except for him. I mean for crying out loud, he's 2 commercials w/ Clemons referencing the fact that he's sack prone, that **** ain't funny. Not to mention he was sacked 32 times in his senior season, that's kinda steep if you consider VY and Leinert had less than 20 combined.

Bottom line there is QB controversy, whether it's the traditional kind where you have a vialble back-up or that the guy sux that bad where a change, any change is needed.

I think the point is that you can't really have a QB controversy without a #2 QB on the roster that the fans think should be the #1...we don't and as SES correctly pointed out...that is not going to change anytime soon. IMO, the final bullet on this thread was shot by Kubiak who by his comments and the actions of the FO said that they are going to bet on DC getting the job done. Obviously, it is fair and to some maybe even fun to passionately disagree with that decision but really we all should start getting used to the idea that the big moves that the Texans will be making will be elsewhere on the team.

Nighthawk
02-20-2006, 06:09 PM
Same argument, same problems. Carr isn't cheap, will cost us a small fortune to trade this season, isn't likely to fetch much of consequence as he is still relatively unproven. Vince is still a somewhat-project, will cost us a large fortune (~55M), and is at best a debatably moderate upgrade to a position we are already decent in and committed to contract-wise. Meanwhile we were 2-14 last year (due in large part to coaching, IMO, which we have rectified, but still ...) and we have a lot of ground to cover in this offseason.

If we didn't have a salary cap ...

If we didn't have David Carr on a 3-year, bonus-heavy contract ...

If we didn't have multiple other, far more pressing needs ...

If we couldn't trade this pick or better utilize it to add to this team now ...

Then yes, draft Vince Young. But the problem is, we do have a salary cap, we do have David Carr, we do have other, far more pressing needs, and we can use the pick better somewhere else.

I have stated it a million times, I think Vince will be a good NFL player. But the logistics of the situation - specifically, the Texans situation - dictate he will be a good player somewhere else.

Costs too much (real and opportunity cost) for not enough gain.

(a) I'm not sure Carr wouldn't bring a good price, since you and others have elsewhere said how many coaches and GMs think highly of him.

(b) I don't think VY will cost of $55M in guaranteed money.

(c) I do believe the Texans have plenty of money under the cap and can arrange for more with cuts and renegotiations. The actual cash we'll be out if trading Carr means nothing, of course, except its effect on the cap.

(d) The Carr trade is to make up for the lost draft picks from not trading the 1st pick--so maybe you get a low first round and a player or a high 2nd and a player.


I actually think we SHOULD trade the first pick, too, and see if we can manage to do it while arranging to be wherever Vince Young is going to fall if he falls, as he seems to be doing now. Fourth or sixth is my guess.

Nighthawk
02-20-2006, 06:13 PM
One thing is for sure, McNair upgraded our coaching staff after a miserable yr.

I THINK this is true, too, but stranger things have happened than Kubiak turning out not to be the savior everyone hopes he will be. It seems that the coaching has been upgraded, but the degree of the upgrade is yet to be demonstrated. Everyone is hopeful and assumes that Kubiak and his Band of Nobodies can coach this team up like crazy and win 7 games next year. I hope everyone is right, but I'm not putting my retirement savings on it.

Koolbrz
02-20-2006, 07:15 PM
I THINK this is true, too, but stranger things have happened than Kubiak turning out not to be the savior everyone hopes he will be. It seems that the coaching has been upgraded, but the degree of the upgrade is yet to be demonstrated. Everyone is hopeful and assumes that Kubiak and his Band of Nobodies can coach this team up like crazy and wil 7 games next year. I hope everyone is right, but I'm not putting my retirement savings on it.


I honestly can't say how many games they will win next yr. One thing is for sure, coaching is going to be much better and what he can get out of them is up to the players. You can have the most successful coach ever on this staff, but if the players don't perform what good is it to have him. They need to make wise decisions in the draft, FA, and with the players they are going to keep. Maybe, we can get 7-8 wins. Like you said we will not know until next yr.

Joe Texan
02-20-2006, 07:26 PM
No need to bet on something that is so far from being decided. There is to much to look at and too much to think about before the draft. I say a week before the draft we will know exactly where the Texans are going. I am just amazed at all the couch coaches that seem to have so much knowledge that they can predict exactly how a professional team will react on draft day. I do appreciate all the opinions and actually laugh at some of them.

tsip
02-20-2006, 08:16 PM
I'll counter your argument. Yes, we have more pressing needs on this team. Quarterback isn't one of them, and neither is running back. You say trade Carr for some defensive help. I say trade the #1 pick for a defensive starter, move back to the #4 or #5 pick and get a defensive player (AJ Hawk, Mario Williams) or an offensive lineman (Ferguson).

As for Domanick Davis, he averaged 4.2 yards a carry, but he was hurt for about 1/4th of the season. Giving him more touches isn't going to keep him healthy, it's actually the other way around. Give him less touches and he'll stay healthy but be less productive. Give him more touches he has a chance to be more productive but he'll also risk getting hurt, which can and probably will happen. He seems to have more nicks and bruises than any other player on our team, and those bruises are usually more severe.

The Texans don't need another QB. That would make us take longer to build this team up again, and I'm sure we don't want to see 3 more years of losing seasons. I say trade down, but if we had to choose between Reggie Bush and Vince Young, I would choose Reggie Bush. He helps our offense be much more dynamic now, helps take the pressure off Davis, and both of them can be productive immediately, not 3 down the line.

...a couple things--first, everyone will be learning a new system this year, not just the newbies. So far, for whatever reason(excuse), Carr has not done very well in the learning/executing of 'any' system--and,yes, I hope the Texans take away all the excuses so that Carr can show us what 'he's got.'

Second, Bush is a small back--will he be able to take the constant pounding of the NFL? We've got 3 backs that avg close to 4 ypc and can catch, blocking being their weakness (Bush a good blocker?). If Capers had rotated DD to keep him fresh--instead of running him into the ground--he may have been less injury prone.

Wordem
02-20-2006, 09:16 PM
When all is said and done, the Texans will take Vince with the number one pick. Bob McNair isn't that stupid.

powerfuldragon
02-20-2006, 09:59 PM
:yap :yap

April 29 here yet?
i think it's tomorrow.

michaelm
02-21-2006, 02:39 AM
IMNSHO....

I'm not a prolific MB poster, so I'm just guessing...

'in my not so humble opinion'?

Koolbrz
02-21-2006, 10:01 AM
...a couple things--first, everyone will be learning a new system this year, not just the newbies. So far, for whatever reason(excuse), Carr has not done very well in the learning/executing of 'any' system--and,yes, I hope the Texans take away all the excuses so that Carr can show us what 'he's got.'

Second, Bush is a small back--will he be able to take the constant pounding of the NFL? We've got 3 backs that avg close to 4 ypc and can catch, blocking being their weakness (Bush a good blocker?). If Capers had rotated DD to keep him fresh--instead of running him into the ground--he may have been less injury prone.


RB may be a little small, but that is something that can be takin care of with a little work in the weight room. Adding 7-10 pounds could help him. Honestly, with his speed and elusiveness it will be hard to get a solid hit on him and he has no history of being injured for the same reason. Look at T. Barber he is 5'10'' and 200lbs, W. Dunn is 5'7'' and 185lbs. They are small backs and great at what they do. Bush will be a stud. Now, DD is a nice power back. Only problem is he can not stay healthy. It seems to me that he is always hurt at the end of the season. When you need your back the most. IMO if you have these two guys on the field at the sametime it will benefit the team way more than having to switch out rb's. VM and JW are not the threats that RB can be. We need a GAMEBREAKER and that is what RB can be. I guarantee he will not be chased down from behind if he gets into the open field.

SESupergenius
02-21-2006, 10:13 AM
No need to bet on something that is so far from being decided. There is to much to look at and too much to think about before the draft. I say a week before the draft we will know exactly where the Texans are going. I am just amazed at all the couch coaches that seem to have so much knowledge that they can predict exactly how a professional team will react on draft day. I do appreciate all the opinions and actually laugh at some of them.
Some how I knew you wouldn't want to do the avatar bet, all mouth no substance.

It's pretty obvious what the Texans are NOT going to do since they picked up the option on Carr. Please keep yourself in denial, it's pretty funny. Although you may be right in that we could actually draft Young or even Lienart, because with Casserly driving the boat we can end up anywhere, of course you'd be front and center on that boat giving a homer "Hooray!"

whiskeyrbl
02-21-2006, 11:42 AM
Y'all might laugh at this but......I agree that spending the $$$$ on Young would be senseless,not that he probably isn't worth it but it would be $$$ tied up on the bench for 1-2 years.I think we need a better vet backup to teach,coach and console with Carr.I don't believe that Banks gives us that.I have never liked Banks as our #2 guy.Ok here is the punch line.I'm thinking of a guy that has been around for about 20 years,is a sparkplug and loves the game....anyone know who i'm talking about? Doug Flutie.:rolleyes:

thunderkyss
02-21-2006, 04:46 PM
I'll counter your argument. Yes, we have more pressing needs on this team. Quarterback isn't one of them, and neither is running back. You say trade Carr for some defensive help. I say trade the #1 pick for a defensive starter, move back to the #4 or #5 pick and get a defensive player (AJ Hawk, Mario Williams) or an offensive lineman (Ferguson).
Doesn't look like the #4 or #5 are too eager to trade. GB likes where they are sitting. NY would probably like to trade down themselves.


As for Domanick Davis, he averaged 4.2 yards a carry, but he was hurt for about 1/4th of the season. Giving him more touches isn't going to keep him healthy, it's actually the other way around. Give him less touches and he'll stay healthy but be less productive. Give him more touches he has a chance to be more productive but he'll also risk getting hurt, which can and probably will happen. He seems to have more nicks and bruises than any other player on our team, and those bruises are usually more severe.
DD will be Okay....... Kubiak's run blocking scheme saves wear & tear on the Runningback. Dlinemen/linebackers will be cut block, DD will be able to dance around them, and take on DBs more his size.


The Texans don't need another QB. That would make us take longer to build this team up again, and I'm sure we don't want to see 3 more years of losing seasons. I say trade down, but if we had to choose between Reggie Bush and Vince Young, I would choose Reggie Bush. He helps our offense be much more dynamic now, helps take the pressure off Davis, and both of them can be productive immediately, not 3 down the line.
Not much arguing here. It is highly probable that Reggie would help us to be more productive on offense next season. Except, that he'll have to pass block on passing downs if we don't fix the Oline, so let's go ahead and take him out of the passing game.

thunderkyss
02-21-2006, 04:58 PM
RB may be a little small, but that is something that can be takin care of with a little work in the weight room. Adding 7-10 pounds could help him. Honestly, with his speed and elusiveness it will be hard to get a solid hit on him and he has no history of being injured for the same reason. Look at T. Barber he is 5'10'' and 200lbs, W. Dunn is 5'7'' and 185lbs. They are small backs and great at what they do. Bush will be a stud. Now, DD is a nice power back. Only problem is he can not stay healthy. It seems to me that he is always hurt at the end of the season. When you need your back the most. IMO if you have these two guys on the field at the sametime it will benefit the team way more than having to switch out rb's. VM and JW are not the threats that RB can be. We need a GAMEBREAKER and that is what RB can be. I guarantee he will not be chased down from behind if he gets into the open field.

Then look at RickyWilliams....... never hurt, not one day in college...... Then he's hurt his first 2 years.... Heck, let's compare DD's first 3 years to Ricky's(3129yrds)..... DD(3195yrds)....... Tiki Barber(935yrds).... Shuan Alexander(2806yrds).....

I may be in the minority, but I don't care if my running back get's 50-80 yard runs for touchdowns...... if he is a treat to get the first down, then that's all we need out of the rungame.

Nighthawk
02-21-2006, 05:40 PM
Y'all might laugh at this but......I agree that spending the $$$$ on Young would be senseless,not that he probably isn't worth it but it would be $$$ tied up on the bench for 1-2 years.I think we need a better vet backup to teach,coach and console with Carr.I don't believe that Banks gives us that.I have never liked Banks as our #2 guy.Ok here is the punch line.I'm thinking of a guy that has been around for about 20 years,is a sparkplug and loves the game....anyone know who i'm talking about? Doug Flutie.:rolleyes:

Let's get Flutie AND Vince--a Mutt & Jeff thing.

Wharton
02-21-2006, 06:47 PM
'in my not so humble opinion'
Yep, sometimes I'm humbe, and sometimes I'm not. When predicting our chances of getting VY, I'm humble, making subjective odds are pretty much a guessing game. When it comes to reading Charlie, I'm not. I don't think the guy has given a strait answer on anything since he got here. I expect this kind of double talk from my politicians, not from my football team.

Anyway there is my :twocents:

TreWardTxn
02-21-2006, 07:23 PM
RB may be a little small, but that is something that can be takin care of with a little work in the weight room. Adding 7-10 pounds could help him. Honestly, with his speed and elusiveness it will be hard to get a solid hit on him and he has no history of being injured for the same reason. Look at T. Barber he is 5'10'' and 200lbs, W. Dunn is 5'7'' and 185lbs. They are small backs and great at what they do. Bush will be a stud. Now, DD is a nice power back. Only problem is he can not stay healthy. It seems to me that he is always hurt at the end of the season. When you need your back the most. IMO if you have these two guys on the field at the sametime it will benefit the team way more than having to switch out rb's. VM and JW are not the threats that RB can be. We need a GAMEBREAKER and that is what RB can be. I guarantee he will not be chased down from behind if he gets into the open field.

Barber and Dunn may be shorter, but they are much more skilled between the tackles runners. Barber is a physical runner for his size and Dunn doesn't take big hits because he is low to the ground and hard to light up. Scouts are concerned about how high Reggie runs, and at 6 even, that's a lot of ankle/knee for dudes like Bob Sanders and Polamalu to tear up. Because he is not a physical runner, he has the tendency to 'over-cut' in the backfield if the running lanes are not readily visible, and we already know how he likes to try to fly through the air. He did try to run over C.Griffin in the Rose Bowl tho, nice to see him try (I said try) somethin' different...

bigTEXan8
02-21-2006, 08:54 PM
Mr. McNair complains about a losing team? :um: When?

What does Mr. McNair know...other than how to become a billionaire from nothing, convince the NFL to put in a new team in Houston instead of LA, how to put together financing for $700 million to buy a team, and be a major part of building the first retractable roof football stadium.

And let's see, he promised Houston sports fans that he wouldn't be a meddling owner, but would instead hire football men to run the operations. And when they failed, fire them and hire an entire new coaching staff.

yeah, this board knows more than Mr. McNair....yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight. And that's why everyone on this board works for someone other than a professional football team. :ok:

Beginning of the KC game, Theisman quoted McNair as saying that he did not like the way the team was playing, and that they should have played a lot better in the first 8 games, and should play better in the last eight games. Cass was sitting next to him eating a salad or whatever, didn't even seem interested in the game at all. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't McNair go out to the Chronic and say multiple times he wasn't happy with the team? Seriously, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I saw plenty of threads refering to those articles.

I admit, he's not a meddeling owner, and I give him a lot of cred about it. But there's a difference in "not meddeling" and "sitting on your *** and doing nothing." As an owner, your name goes out to a product. Just curious, would anybody on this board want your name on the product the Texans churned out this season? What I am saying is, McNair had to have seen a problem in specific areas of the team since 2002. This is just me, thinking if I was an owner, I would wonder, if not :brickwall to why the heck no one did anything to sure up the o-line, which has been a main problem since day 1. Congrats to bringing football back to Houston, with the awesome staduim and facilities, but no matter how good the make-up, the team still looked like krap.

When I said that more people on this board knows more about football than he does, I also said that, to me, is how McNair came off. I'm not saying McNair doesn't know more about football than people on this board, I'm just saying that's the way it is perceived.

Wolf
02-21-2006, 09:01 PM
why draft Vince and would Carr even be worth much considering Drew Brees is rumored to be released (yes damaged goods I know)

you could have Brees and Bush


sarcasm..

I'll be very suprised if VY is drafted... to me Carr is here for the long haul and besides that we will have Ragone also ..so why draft another QB when you can get OL/DL or RB that would help this team alot more than what a QB could right now or help a defense get a pass rush so our secondary would get toasted so much

Koolbrz
02-21-2006, 09:43 PM
Barber and Dunn may be shorter, but they are much more skilled between the tackles runners. Barber is a physical runner for his size and Dunn doesn't take big hits because he is low to the ground and hard to light up. Scouts are concerned about how high Reggie runs, and at 6 even, that's a lot of ankle/knee for dudes like Bob Sanders and Polamalu to tear up. Because he is not a physical runner, he has the tendency to 'over-cut' in the backfield if the running lanes are not readily visible, and we already know how he likes to try to fly through the air. He did try to run over C.Griffin in the Rose Bowl tho, nice to see him try (I said try) somethin' different...

I agree with what you say about Dunn and Barber. As for RB, he is fast and elusive, i really don't think that defenses will be able to light him up. With a decent line and a few more pounds i feel he will be able to run between the tackles, and as far as him running high. A lil coaching can fix that. Dude is a GAMEBREAKER and thats what the Texans need someone who can take it the distance. DD is a good back he just can't go the distance. I believe he was caught from behind what 4-6 times this last yr. Not good

tko54321
02-21-2006, 09:59 PM
In the best of all situations, instead of trading down, the Texans should draft Vince Young and trade either him or David Carr (whichever another team wants more) for 3 qualified offensive linemen of at least 2 years experience. This would take a 3-way deal, because the liklihood of the team needing a QB willing to give up its OL is unlikely. They'd give up 1, and the other 2 would have to come from somewhere else.

Wharton
02-21-2006, 10:18 PM
WOLF did u watch this????

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

that is why u draft another qb, one that is a leader and one that is home grown and all-world. carr couldn't do half of those plays in success, let alone one maybe one tenth.
Brings a tear to my eye. :crying:
Its just sooooo beautiful!

Alas, it’s probably not meant to be.

TreWardTxn
02-21-2006, 10:21 PM
In the best of all situations, instead of trading down, the Texans should draft Vince Young and trade either him or David Carr (whichever another team wants more) for 3 qualified offensive linemen of at least 2 years experience. This would take a 3-way deal, because the liklihood of the team needing a QB willing to give up its OL is unlikely. They'd give up 1, and the other 2 would have to come from somewhere else.

Wow, I know teams like QBs, but no team is giving up even one promising, young offensive lineman, unless they are just stacked at the position. The only guy I can think of is Trai Essex from the Steelers, who apprently looks like a player, but can't stay on the field because of all the talent in front of him...

Hookem Horns
02-21-2006, 10:26 PM
WOLF did u watch this????

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

that is why u draft another qb, one that is a leader and one that is home grown and all-world. carr couldn't do half of those plays in success, let alone one maybe one tenth.

The Texans aren't taking VY. They may regret it down the road, and if that happens us fans will be the ones paying the price. However, just accept it now because whether it turns out to be good or bad, the Texans are not drafting VY.

thunderkyss
02-21-2006, 10:27 PM
this guy is pretty good, maybe we should draft him...

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

only player in the HISTORY of college football to pass for 3000 and run for 1000 in a season. something the Texans current qb NEVER came close to doing.

kinda weird trying to convince those that don't see it. a player that is already a legend possibly coming to a team that only won 2 games last year and fans have to question it?? wow, weird.


That is probably one of the better VInce Young highlight clips I've seen.


Morknolle or any of the doubters... please look at the play starting @ 1:21....... Vince is rolling left..... stops, sets his feet, then throws a 40 strike to Limas Sweed( I think) hitting him in stride for a touchdown....... That is just an awesome play.... It's hard to tell, but it looks like he came over the top with the ball, and the release was high, and quick.

Throughout the clip, you see Vince moving with the ball, very well. AT 0:31, you see him get in trouble, but he keeps looking down field for a reciever. He's looking downfiled, and there's a rusher in his face....... he spins around him, and his eyes are down the field again, for a second time...... he slides to his right, the attackers have a hold of him, he looks at two different options, and decides to throw the ball to the second.......... that's awesome..

Then at 1:29, the pocket is gone, he runs right, sees the defender..... pump fakes...... the dB jumps to deflect the pass, as Vince runs past him with the ball. if you don't see how high the DB jumps(how convincingly Vince sold the pump) just wait, they replay it... What really impresses me about this, is even in the NFL, you don't see QBs effectively use the pump as often as they should..... much less, on the run. That's awareness........ keep watching, he'll pump fake five yards past the line of scrimmage, and they still bite on it...


I honestly don't know what to think of David Carr right now. I have no idea how much upside he has left. But if I'm going to bet my career on what David might be, or on what Vince might be....... I'm going with #10. Especially in the situation we have right now, where we can have the best of both worlds. Draft Vince. Start Carr next year, no questions asked, no QB competition, nothing. David starts. We've got two years, to see what he's got.... we can make the decision of wether we want to go with Carr or Vince, two years from now.

Especially if Casserly did his job, and Kubiak thinks he can do something with our offensive line. Move the pocket, pull a guard....... teach David what a hot route is..... help David understand that there is a difference between a stupid pass, and letting his WRs fight for the ball.

Let's get some cut blocking going on... let DD get 10 easy yards before he sees contact.

Get Gafney, Mathis, and Armstrong some stick-um, some gloves, something...

and get us a pass rush with that high second.....

travfrancis
02-21-2006, 10:51 PM
man thats a nice clip, really gets the emotions stirring, what a special player he is

i'm truly going to be devastated if we pass on him : (
i've never felt this strongly about a player before

TexanSam
02-21-2006, 10:53 PM
WOLF did u watch this????

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

that is why u draft another qb, one that is a leader and one that is home grown and all-world. carr couldn't do half of those plays in success, let alone one maybe one tenth.

And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.

thunderkyss
02-21-2006, 11:09 PM
And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.

This goes for all college players.... wether they play OL, DL, RB, WR, etc....

Yet some people do come in, and do what they did.... Leftwhich....... McNabb... Vick....... Ware.... Jevon... Palamau.. Rothlisberger.. Peyton...... LT.... Chad Johnson.... Cullpepper....... etc...... etc...

And Jaworski still carrying around his KC Chiefs plan for the superbowl book from three years ago... & what's he mean no single player has changed the NFl?? LT changed the Linebacker position, as did Butkus before him. Both players changed the make-up of the Defense, which changed how offenses have progressed through the years...

TreWardTxn
02-22-2006, 12:31 AM
And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.

By "change the game," I take that to mean that he has the ability to become a new standard for his position at the professional level. And regardless of whether he reinvents the QB position or not, when his skills reach their peak, he will be the single hardest player to defend on any football field. Any DC would go nuts trying to figure out how to defend this guy; wouldn't want to spy most LBs, too slow, use a safety and your putting huge holes in your coverage. At the end of the day, playing QB is about making the best decisions, and there is no way to reinvent that, but a guy with his ability has so many options available to him on the field, it allows him to make plays that much easier...

Hookem Horns
02-22-2006, 02:23 AM
just give up man DAMN
why would you want vince young when he couldnt throw a TD pass against the 39th defense
((not to bring down young))

Not to bring Young down? Umm, that is not what you are trying to do? I don't know which 39th defense you are referring to, however how does your argument hold any weight when he threw TD passes against a great Ohio State defense? The last one, threaded the needle in the clutch, to win the game.

If he DOES struggle against poor defenses, then we should have nothing to fear when he comes in here in Bud Duds (Titans uni), because our defense is pretty darn poor.

BTW folks, if the VY highlights gets you worked up, then STOP watching them. You are only going to p*ss yourself off when the Texans call out the name Bush on draft day. Face it, that is who they are taking whether we like it or not. Just take a few minutes and stare at my avatar. Better suck it up and get used to it now.

This is going to be one of those occasions where I pray I am wrong (as far as which direction I think the team should go) and those in charge of the Texans either know what they are doing or get lucky.

thunderkyss
02-22-2006, 07:52 AM
One thing you can be sure of.... the more the Texans say they'll draft Reggie, the less likely it will happen.

I'm not saying they'll be drafting Vince, even though I still think it is highly probable..... It looks more like they are ready to trade down.

Tayton
02-22-2006, 09:01 AM
The truth of the matter is that no one throughout the country thinks Young is ahead of Leinart if you need a QB. No one but fans in Houston. Many draft people have him rated 3rd or 4th as they review tape. He didn't actually shine in the skills challenge. As far as being a winner, his record is second behind Leinart "Homegrown" is overated and means nothing. The knock on Young is two fold. First his arm, second his ability to read defenses. Leftwich has the same problems. I am going to trust Kubiak and Co. to truly evaluate the players and what they need. Personally, I think that they will choose Bush or trade down. My only concern is that they get an impact player.

jerek
02-22-2006, 09:08 AM
Not to bring Young down? Umm, that is not what you are trying to do? I don't know which 39th defense you are referring to, however how does your argument hold any weight when he threw TD passes against a great Ohio State defense? The last one, threaded the needle in the clutch, to win the game.

If he DOES struggle against poor defenses, then we should have nothing to fear when he comes in here in Bud Duds (Titans uni), because our defense is pretty darn poor.

BTW folks, if the VY highlights gets you worked up, then STOP watching them. You are only going to p*ss yourself off when the Texans call out the name Bush on draft day. Face it, that is who they are taking whether we like it or not. Just take a few minutes and stare at my avatar. Better suck it up and get used to it now.

This is going to be one of those occasions where I pray I am wrong (as far as which direction I think the team should go) and those in charge of the Texans either know what they are doing or get lucky.

Ah ... the sweet, sweet sound of a poster who has accepted the inevitable.

Still taking those bets, if anyone feels like it.

chuckm
02-22-2006, 09:11 AM
WOLF did u watch this????

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

that is why u draft another qb, one that is a leader and one that is home grown and all-world. carr couldn't do half of those plays in success, let alone one maybe one tenth.



if you liked that video, you'll love this

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/30/sports/ncaafootball/30reggie.html?ei=5088&en=f471a3326a2edc52&ex=1291006800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1133374558-P9rpnHz6D2VlW8GQ/zR4wQ

click on the Reggie Bush at Helix High link beneath his picture

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 10:34 AM
Paul Pinegar of Fresno State looked good against USC, so that doesn't really prove anything about VY. VY beat up and a BIG 12 that had a down year, still doesn't prove anything. One of the reasons Carr was selected by the Texans was because he beat up on several teams too. I just think it's wiser to sure up the o-line and the D.

Wharton
02-22-2006, 11:12 AM
And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.
Well, you may be right, but I bet Vince makes more big plays his rookie year then David Carr will make in his fifth.

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 11:21 AM
Well, you may be right, but I bet Vince makes more big plays his rookie year then David Carr will make in his fifth.

...and I have 50 bucks says VY doesn't even play his rookie year.

Double Barrel
02-22-2006, 11:46 AM
Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.''

Johnny Unitas changed the game by redefining the position of QB. I'm surprised and disappointed in Jaws that he didn't recognize this fact of NFL history (especially being a QB himself!). When Unitas passed away, every modern QB credited him with changing the way QBs play the game from that point forward. [He was the first quarterback to throw for more than 40,000 yards, despite playing during an era when NFL teams played shorter seasons of 12 or 14 games, as opposed to the 16 game seasons that are played today. He also threw a touchdown pass in 47 consecutive games between 1956 and 1960, a record that still stands today.]

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 11:58 AM
Johnny Unitas changed the game by redefining the position of QB. I'm surprised and disappointed in Jaws that he didn't recognize this fact of NFL history (especially being a QB himself!). When Unitas passed away, every modern QB credited him with changing the way QBs play the game from that point forward. [He was the first quarterback to throw for more than 40,000 yards, despite playing during an era when NFL teams played shorter seasons of 12 or 14 games, as opposed to the 16 game seasons that are played today. He also threw a touchdown pass in 47 consecutive games between 1956 and 1960, a record that still stands today.]

Well, I think it's what your definition of changing the game means. Mike Vick and VY could redefine the way the QB position will being played, but I don't think that they can change the game. To me, to change the game means to have the NFL create rules, stipulations, etc., that way one player can't dominate the game. I wonder if that's what Jaws was saying.

Double Barrel
02-22-2006, 12:29 PM
Well, I think it's what your definition of changing the game means. Mike Vick and VY could redefine the way the QB position will being played, but I don't think that they can change the game. To me, to change the game means to have the NFL create rules, stipulations, etc., that way one player can't dominate the game. I wonder if that's what Jaws was saying.

Perhaps, but his reply is in response to VY projections, and I've not heard anyone really say that Young with redefine the game. If Jaws is hearing that, then he needs to listen to different analysts, IMO.

It is a matter of perspective on how you take his words, though. He could have been talking from that particular pov, so I'll cut him some slack on that one (only because I like him as an analyst on NFL Live ;)).

Nobody will be a Michael Jordan of the NFL, though, and he didn't really change the fundamental rules of basketball, either. I'm not sure of any real-world example of one player changing the basic foundation of a team sport in recent memory.

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 12:33 PM
Perhaps, but his reply is in response to VY projections, and I've not heard anyone really say that Young with redefine the game. If Jaws is hearing that, then he needs to listen to different analysts, IMO.

It is a matter of perspective on how you take his words, though. He could have been talking from that particular pov, so I'll cut him some slack on that one (only because I like him as an analyst on NFL Live ;)).

Nobody will be a Michael Jordan of the NFL, though, and he didn't really change the fundamental rules of basketball, either. I'm not sure of any real-world example of one player changing the basic foundation of a team sport in recent memory.

I forget his name, Mika or something, but he played basketball, this of course was during the 50s, but they established the 3-second rule because of him, posession time, etc. Shaq paid for his funeral. Not important...another sport, another topic. Just ignore me...Ha!!

DRAMA
02-22-2006, 12:47 PM
Entire offenses schemed to stop Lawrence Taylor - period. He didn't change 'the game' but he changed 'the GAME' that he was playing in that Sunday. I'm not advocating drafting VY but Jim Brown, LT, Deion Sanders changed the game each Sunday.

In a way, Jaws is right. VY will have no impact in Washington's redzone against Dallas if he's playing against Indy for the Titans...

Wharton
02-22-2006, 01:46 PM
...and I have 50 bucks says VY doesn't even play his rookie year.
$50 VY doesn't play a down next year. Your on!

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 02:01 PM
$50 VY doesn't play a down next year. Your on!

Sweet. $50 Mexican dollars that VY doesn't play...hahahahahaha...sucker!

jerek
02-22-2006, 03:14 PM
Sweet. $50 Mexican dollars that VY doesn't play...hahahahahaha...sucker!

Whoa ..... BigTex, what are you doing? If nothing else, Vince will get garbage time minutes. Unless you know he is set to die or retire sometime before August, better qualify your bet there, buddy ...

Even if they are Mexican dollars ... that's a burrito and a margarita there buddy!

TreWardTxn
02-22-2006, 03:26 PM
Perhaps, but his reply is in response to VY projections, and I've not heard anyone really say that Young with redefine the game. If Jaws is hearing that, then he needs to listen to different analysts, IMO.

It is a matter of perspective on how you take his words, though. He could have been talking from that particular pov, so I'll cut him some slack on that one (only because I like him as an analyst on NFL Live ;)).

Nobody will be a Michael Jordan of the NFL, though, and he didn't really change the fundamental rules of basketball, either. I'm not sure of any real-world example of one player changing the basic foundation of a team sport in recent memory.

Maybe not the basic foundation of the game, but Magic Johnson redefined the entire idea of what a point guard could be in the NBA. 6'8, could run the floor, and court vision like that is still unreal. Even LeBron has a long way to go before putting him in that category...

A guy who did change the foundation of the game was Wilt tho (not too recent, not real old. He was the reason for three in the key and offensive goaltending wasn't even thought of before him...

As far as football goes, you have to go with LT again.

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 03:28 PM
Whoa ..... BigTex, what are you doing? If nothing else, Vince will get garbage time minutes. Unless you know he is set to die or retire sometime before August, better qualify your bet there, buddy ...

Even if they are Mexican dollars ... that's a burrito and a margarita there buddy!

...or just two margaritas. That's true about the garbage time...didn't think of that. I guess I have to call the bet.

TexanSam
02-22-2006, 03:59 PM
how long has college football been around? OVER 100 YEARS. and in that time NOBODY, NOBODY, NOBODY, has passed for 3000 yds and run for 1000 yds. EXCEPT YOUNG.

don't give me a weak jowarski info when he didn't do what Young did.

Young will be greater than any football player you have EVER seen, not bush, hell he couldn't turn the corner on the Texas D.

young is the man for us and for the nfl future. accept it or settle with a non-important carr.

You've got your opinion. I've got mine. I don't think Vince Young will even be the best QB to come out of this draft 10 years down the line. He's not going to run in the NFL like he did in college. He's going to have to learn to stay back in the pocket. We'll see if he can or not. He's also going to learn how to read defenses. And play with players faster than he ever saw in college.

My question to you Bamboo, chances are Young won't be drafted by the Texans. What is your reaction going to be when we draft Bush on draft day?

Wharton
02-22-2006, 04:19 PM
Sweet. $50 Mexican dollars that VY doesn't play...hahahahahaha...sucker!
Aw man, we switched to pesos. Chicken!

:neener:

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 04:33 PM
Aw man, we switched to pesos. Chicken!

:neener:

haha...nice. No, I didn't take in account about garbage time. I'm trying to figure out also where VY is going to go.

stevo3883
02-22-2006, 05:18 PM
I'm not sure of any real-world example of one player changing the basic foundation of a team sport in recent memory.


bob gibson

Caphorn
02-22-2006, 05:37 PM
VY is a shot in the arm for a local team to choose a local hero. just like when the rockets had hakeem and clyde and the oilers had earl.

The Astros and Roger Clemens or the Ryan Express.

It's obvious that drafting VY reforms the outlook of this team from a public perception standpoint. But it's not necessarily the right reason for making the choice. You have to be convinced that he's going to be astonishingly successful as a QB as well.

Double Barrel
02-22-2006, 06:18 PM
bob gibson

A phenomenal Hall of Famer, without a doubt. But did he change the face of the game? Baseball, with a few minor changes, has remained pretty much the same game for a long, long time.

When I hear the term "change the game", I think of a situation like Tiger Woods and the way he makes courses actual plan around his play. "Tiger-proofing" is the term I hear all the time. But golf is not a team sport.

The team sports don't seem to really reflect that kind of fundamental change from one player.

There have been a couple of examples with basketball, and these players did alter the game with some rule changes. Perhaps that's changing the game in some aspects.

But Unitas changed the way QBs were utilized and changed the attitude of the NFL from a predominantly running league to one that created offensive schemes for the passing game. His abilities, from passing, to running and scrambling, to having veins of ice that let coaches realize that games could be won at the end by relying on the QB's arm were epic. Perhaps "change the game" is too strong, but he definitely changed the position of QB (which in itself, has changed the face of the NFL from it's 1950's form to what we have today).

Could VY be that kind of player? Who knows. Anything is possible. But he'd have to rise above even the great potential he has now to do things that are basically unheard of, and it would be great for football if he did it.

Although, I must admit that since we probably won't have him on our team, I won't be rooting for him to do it. ;)

stevo3883
02-22-2006, 06:38 PM
gibson's 1968 season was the best in history and was the final contributor towards the mlb moving the mound back 5 inches to give the hitters a better chance.

Double Barrel
02-22-2006, 07:14 PM
gibson's 1968 season was the best in history and was the final contributor towards the mlb moving the mound back 5 inches to give the hitters a better chance.

aahhh, gotcha'. That's a pretty significant change, too. Did that result in lowering the mound, too?

Thanks for the info! Always appreciate learning something new everyday. :)

Bubbajwp
02-22-2006, 08:36 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-02-21-huff-qa_x.htm

this guy just faced 2 heisman winners and as a not knowing expert picked young.

put yourself on an elementary school blacktop, ready to select your team.... you have all as your choices, do you pass on Young and select bush or leinart???? if you do, game over, you lose. because i will select young and will thread your D like no end. look at the stats young produced in drives led to scores, look at how many pts. this guy managed and led. this guy is GREAT, bush is so so. or in spanish, asi asi.
Correction UT's defense faced 2 heisman winners and did pretty good.
VY faced a decent USC defense and played amazing.

bigTEXan8
02-22-2006, 08:41 PM
i have been looking for a reason to embrace the Texans. my best friend has a sister that is a cheerleader, so i went to many of the games. going 2-14 is not winning fans over, neither has the ability to not draft very well as a franchise.


Hmmmm....interesting. :idea: Just playin'.

tko54321
02-22-2006, 09:22 PM
I love watching Vince Young, because he does NOT scramble like Vick or others--he's in total control, upright and super-poised. This is because he sees the whole field and sees things developing BEFORE they develop.

But if the Texans let him go and trade down--because good RBs are a dime a dozen in the 4th round and later--he may very well become a star elsewhere and then come home just as Carr's time is winding down.:drool:

TexanSam
02-22-2006, 11:49 PM
i have been looking for a reason to embrace the Texans. my best friend has a sister that is a cheerleader, so i went to many of the games. going 2-14 is not winning fans over, neither has the ability to not draft very well as a franchise.

hell, i would love it if they succeed, but if they do not, i am more inclined to root for the team that does choose vince young (went to north shore, hightower, katy and several other of his h.s. games and i went to UT, so i went to ohio st. and both rose bowl games).

sure let the door hit me, but why should i root for an organization that is passing on probably one of the best college players EVER. guys like corso, mandell, current nfl players, and many other "experts" see the talent of young. bush will be greeted by a lot of boooo birds and will be under the microscope, so will carr. i don't think agree with that booing, but i fear it will happen. just like if vince kicks *** (and i think he will) it will be more of the "what are you *****s thinking by passing on him"

VY is a shot in the arm for a local team to choose a local hero. just like when the rockets had hakeem and clyde and the oilers had earl.


Let's say Reggie Bush turns out to be a great back also though. Phenomenal even. You think Vince Young will be a great QB. I think Reggie Bush will be a great RB (and the player that will help the Texans more, but that's my opinion). If both turn out to be great, and the Texans do just fine without Young, then fans won't care. Yes, Vince Young will help improve our perception in Texas, and sell seats at Reliant, his first couple years. But if Vince Young starts sucking, people aren't gonna care. Winning sells seats, not individual players.

Big B Texan Fan
02-23-2006, 12:47 AM
Let's say Reggie Bush turns out to be a great back also though. Phenomenal even. You think Vince Young will be a great QB. I think Reggie Bush will be a great RB (and the player that will help the Texans more, but that's my opinion). If both turn out to be great, and the Texans do just fine without Young, then fans won't care. Yes, Vince Young will help improve our perception in Texas, and sell seats at Reliant, his first couple years. But if Vince Young starts sucking, people aren't gonna care. Winning sells seats, not individual players.
The same can be said for Bush too. As a matter of fact the same can be said for any player that plays a key position.

Bottom line, whatever we do with the pick, that poor person (or persons if we trade or trade down) will be raked ver the coals if he puts his shoes on the wrong feet. We bang on Babin alot but most of it I'm sure is because we sold the farm for him. If we'd drafted him in the 2nd with our original pick then IMHO we wouldn't have such high expectations. Just the normal progression you'd expect out of a 2nd rd guy that came out of a small school that switched positions and got the starting job at that position.

expwrlifter
02-23-2006, 12:54 PM
texansam,
thats not all true about individual dont sell seats... Some guy named Roger Clemens.... sells them all the time... Heck the day he signed the Astros had to hire additional staff to take all the phone calls for season tickets... Why do you think the Texans keep extending there season ticket deadline...Gee I wonder why... That should tell you how much people believe in DC...:ok:

Big B Texan Fan
02-23-2006, 01:00 PM
texansam,
thats not all true about individual dont sell seats... Some guy named Roger Clemens.... sells them all the time... Heck the day he signed the Astros had to hire additional staff to take all the phone calls for season tickets... Why do you think the Texans keep extending there season ticket deadline...Gee I wonder why... That should tell you how much people believe in DC...:ok:
Please explain, are they extending it cuz it seems as though from a season tix sales standpoint that they may be drafting Young?

I heard that they are wanting 50% up front this year as opposed to the normal 10%. That 50% is due before the draft (unless it has changed). That would lead one to believe from a season tix sales standpoint that they may be leaning towards Bush. The mail went out before they extended Carr his 3 year option.

So if you look at it from that angle, they're drafting Bush, unless something has changed in the deadline for monies collected.

expwrlifter
02-23-2006, 02:20 PM
from what i gathered they were extending the deadline to get people to sign up for the priority list. They even have an ad in the chronicle for it... its funny to me that they are hurting for sales .. that should tell someone in the FO that they dont believe in the personel they have now... I would like to know when the deadline is now... I live in Dallas so I dont get to hear everything only what I hear and see..

If they do get Bush that may be the reason they keep dangling the VY maybe rumor to help keep fans... thats funny to because all the diehard DC fans are like fine ... leave we dont need you... intresting that the FO thinks they do... why else would they extend the deadline and ask for more upfront...makes you think thats for sure...

Big B Texan Fan
02-23-2006, 02:29 PM
from what i gathered they were extending the deadline to get people to sign up for the priority list. They even have an ad in the chronicle for it... its funny to me that they are hurting for sales .. that should tell someone in the FO that they dont believe in the personel they have now... I would like to know when the deadline is now... I live in Dallas so I dont get to hear everything only what I hear and see..

If they do get Bush that may be the reason they keep dangling the VY maybe rumor to help keep fans... thats funny to because all the diehard DC fans are like fine ... leave we dont need you... intresting that the FO thinks they do... why else would they extend the deadline and ask for more upfront...makes you think thats for sure...
I don't know if Dallas has enough to offer to move up to 3rd or 4th but it would be cool if VY could stay in state. If not though, NYJ would be cool too with the NYC media coverage we would get a steady stream of him all the time, as long as they're winning.

jerek
02-23-2006, 03:22 PM
from what i gathered they were extending the deadline to get people to sign up for the priority list. They even have an ad in the chronicle for it... its funny to me that they are hurting for sales .. that should tell someone in the FO that they dont believe in the personel they have now... I would like to know when the deadline is now... I live in Dallas so I dont get to hear everything only what I hear and see..

If they do get Bush that may be the reason they keep dangling the VY maybe rumor to help keep fans... thats funny to because all the diehard DC fans are like fine ... leave we dont need you... intresting that the FO thinks they do... why else would they extend the deadline and ask for more upfront...makes you think thats for sure...

VY will initially sell tickets for sure, but people need to quit arguing for the guy on that basis. If Vince Young comes here and we go 2-14 next year, we are going to be looking at a lot of empty seats in Reliant. We could draft Bud Adams to play QB and if we go 13-3, Texans tickets are once again going to be the hottest commodity in town.

Of course, there is nothing saying we don't draft Vince and go 8-8. Likewise, there is nothing saying we don't go 8-8 while Vince starts for the Jets next year. My point is: a burst in ticket sales should not be involved in argument for or against drafting a guy, because if our management isn't focused singularly on winning, then that burst will be exactly that: a burst. Winning sells tickets. Losing doesn't.

Astros tickets are going to be hot like fire next year because we went to the World Series, regardless if Clemens throws another pitch for us. Point made?

El Tejano
02-23-2006, 03:24 PM
I hear you. I am leaning more towards Reggie, especially if we are getting some of the stud lineman in FA.

jerek
02-23-2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-02-21-huff-qa_x.htm

this guy just faced 2 heisman winners and as a not knowing expert picked young.

put yourself on an elementary school blacktop, ready to select your team.... you have all as your choices, do you pass on Young and select bush or leinart???? if you do, game over, you lose. because i will select young and will thread your D like no end. look at the stats young produced in drives led to scores, look at how many pts. this guy managed and led. this guy is GREAT, bush is so so. or in spanish, asi asi.

A Longhorn pumping his own teammate. Unthinkable. This changes everything. Draft Vince immediately. Or as we say in spanish, no quiero Vince.

expwrlifter
02-23-2006, 03:52 PM
jerek,
you need to read some more info... the ticket sales are not going fast for the astros especially when they didnt offer arbitration for the ROCKET... and mark my words if he does come back MAY 1st it wont take a rocket scientist to figure out what will happen then... let me help you out.. additional hires for season tickets again..

And to answer all the reason to pick him because of Tickets ...didnt say that was a reason but its funny to me that the FO keeps extending the deadline.. its like they are afraid the fan base will turn on them if they dont make the VY pick...

infantrycak
02-23-2006, 04:03 PM
but its funny to me that the FO keeps extending the deadline.. its like they are afraid the fan base will turn on them if they dont make the VY pick...

Or it is like they went 2-14 last year.

bigTEXan8
02-23-2006, 04:10 PM
And to answer all the reason to pick him because of Tickets ...didnt say that was a reason but its funny to me that the FO keeps extending the deadline.. its like they are afraid the fan base will turn on them if they dont make the VY pick...

I doubt they are afraid that the fanbase will turn on them, especially if the Texans start winning regularly. Will a good portion of fans be upset with not picking VY, yeah, but winning is bigger than any player, and it really seems like with a lot of these VY fans, he's bigger than winning.

jerek
02-23-2006, 04:13 PM
jerek,
you need to read some more info... the ticket sales are not going fast for the astros especially when they didnt offer arbitration for the ROCKET... and mark my words if he does come back MAY 1st it wont take a rocket scientist to figure out what will happen then... let me help you out.. additional hires for season tickets again..

And to answer all the reason to pick him because of Tickets ...didnt say that was a reason but its funny to me that the FO keeps extending the deadline.. its like they are afraid the fan base will turn on them if they dont make the VY pick...

I don't have data on this year's sales, and I would be interested to know what data you have access to. Not saying you are wrong, but since you seem to have more information than I do, would appreciate the look.

I was simply referring to the general sports trend: winners sell, losers don't. Countless highly successful sports franchises sell out game after game without a "hometown" player on their roster. Players become popular, become icons, when they win. Tom Brady was an unheralded nobody when New England drafted him, and he's nothing less than a national celebrity now, to say nothing of his status in Boston.

The "draft for tickets" argument is not invalid, but the problem is that it can be contrary to "draft to win." Because it provides the wrong skew towards evaluating football talent, no franchise is going to seriously consider a player's "popularity" whenever that attribute is a potential factor in fanbase reception, and I am getting tired of hearing pro-Vince arguments because the front office is supposed to be concerned with bringing a popular guy in. This isn't a comedy club, this isn't a circus, this is a football team, and while it is an elevated form of "entertainment" which must be concerned with what the buyer wants, buyers ultimately want winning. That is sport. For all of those loud but minority voices threatening to rescind their support of the team if we don't draft Vince, winning will quickly replace those lost ticket sales. If we draft Vince and continue to lose, two years later, no one will care. If we aren't drafting to replace Vince, we are still drafting to rebuild a franchise and restore fanbase.

Few if any wildly successful figures in the history of sport were drafted on the basis of being a hometown guy, or were close to the community because they grew up in it. Players reach out, roots are put down, and winning makes damn near everyone good friends. You are simply in denial if you don't understand that.

If the front office thinks Vince is the QB to lead this franchise, then his already substantial Houston fanbase makes for a sweet bonus. If it is a dead coin flip between Vince and Leinart in terms of replacing Carr, then Young will easily win the tiebreaker because of his local status. But if the FO is not convinced that Vince needs to replace Carr, then they are not going to suddenly rethink any aspect of that decision because of the fan outcry for Vince, as it exists now.

Trust me, we go 12-4 two years from now? David Carr is going to get really popular around here.

expwrlifter
02-23-2006, 04:52 PM
Jerek,
again you are misunderstanding what i am saying.. I am not saying draft VY because of ticket sales , I am responding to your comment about People dont sell tickets winning does. You say that but look at the Marlins and Braves who win and still cant sell out games. heck the ex Expos had a great record before they left Montreal and couldnt sell out a game. Its alot harder than you think and dont get me wrong I am not a economics teacher but with the 2-14 last year this team needs excitement and something to wake the people up in houston for there football team. RB is not the answer right now... he may be the right pick for them but this teams needs the fans behind them and right now is the moment they need them.

If we dont make the right pick and it should be the best person there for them and I will agree RB is special but we need something to boost this team. The FO knows this and that is what is making them think about VY.. if DC fails after his extension the FO will lose alot of the fan base and will continued to be second guessed.. Yes winning does cure alot of things but it doesnt always bring the fans like you say it does...

infantrycak
02-23-2006, 05:22 PM
expwrlifter--your examples come from a sport that rarely sells out regular season games, partly because there are so many games, and one where even dominant teams lose tons of games during the season. Plus, while baseball is a team sport, at a base level it is a one on one confrontation pitcher vs. hitter as the focus. Adding players like Clemons can more easily affect such sales. The NFL in contrast has relatively few games, is the consumate team sport, has the potential for undefeated seasons and every win is vital. Field a winning team (heck just don't lose for several consecutive years for non-expansion teams) and fans will come.

Koolbrz
02-23-2006, 05:33 PM
Jerek,
again you are misunderstanding what i am saying.. I am not saying draft VY because of ticket sales , I am responding to your comment about People dont sell tickets winning does. You say that but look at the Marlins and Braves who win and still cant sell out games. heck the ex Expos had a great record before they left Montreal and couldnt sell out a game. Its alot harder than you think and dont get me wrong I am not a economics teacher but with the 2-14 last year this team needs excitement and something to wake the people up in houston for there football team. RB is not the answer right now... he may be the right pick for them but this teams needs the fans behind them and right now is the moment they need them.

If we dont make the right pick and it should be the best person there for them and I will agree RB is special but we need something to boost this team. The FO knows this and that is what is making them think about VY.. if DC fails after his extension the FO will lose alot of the fan base and will continued to be second guessed..



I disagree with this comment, If the Texans start to win the fans will return regardless if we have VY or RB. All that we want is a solid team that can compete and win games. People here in H-town jump on them bandwagons in a hurry. Look at last yr with the Astros. Everyone was losing interest the first part of the season when they were not winning, then all of a sudden they begin to win and everyone is back. With huge grins on there faces. People here just go with the flow.

expwrlifter
02-23-2006, 09:18 PM
Your right go with the flow and bandwagon at times... well we have a big bandwagon with VY... they need something to help them out and its staring them right in the face...

Infantry you are right I used a bad example of teams, but the Vikings are about to leave Minnesota, TB cant sell out, Dolphins couldnt sell out and they almost made the playoffs... There is alot of things we need and one player wont fill these holes.. so thats why it makes sense to go get someone who will create some excitement around here because we know DC hasnt done that in the four years he has been here..

Heck I wouldnt even mind trading down... but we need something to jumpstart fans again to support the TEXANS ..why do you think all the buzz is going around now.. the Texans should be excited that H-town wants VY...use that to help you not hurt you which it could later on down the road.

Joe Texan
02-23-2006, 09:45 PM
There is alot of things we need and one player wont fill these holes.. so thats why it makes sense to go get someone who will create some excitement around here because we know DC hasnt done that in the four years he has been here..


In Davids defense he did just what you said he did not do for the first three years. It was year four that he ignored us in Dallas, only to go on and have a terrible season to boot. Had he won 9 games he would be the shoe in for the #1 spot.

He did not win so his temper tantrums got in the way of his ability to acurately make a football decision. Maybe he can bounce back but that is a maybe. Maybe Vince wil be the best there has ever been, another maybe.
Maybe Reggie will have breakaway speed and some how elude defenses way more in tune than the Texas Longhorns, another maybe. Lets not throw out the Furguson issue, Top man at his position who could be the key to our Oline worries, another maybe.

I am just hoping that maybe the football heads we have inserted do the impossible task of rearranging, retraining, tweaking to let us have our first winning season ever in this teams history.

tex2theend
02-23-2006, 09:52 PM
I'm all for trading down and getting some stud lineman and more draft picks but these numbers do not lie.

Bush averaged an astounding 8.7 yards per carry this past season but only averaged 15.4 carries per contest. Then again, he had 16 rushing touchdowns on those 200 carries, a remarkable rate of a score every 12.5 totes. And these weren’t Jerome Bettis or Mike Alstott touchdown rumbles – Bush averaged 29.3 yards per scoring run.

That is just not human. How about this senario for next season?

Andre wide right - 4.35 speed
Mathis wide left - 4.2 speed
Bush motions to the slot receiver - LIGHTNING
Does Carr?
a. Throw to Andre who is in single coverage.
b. Throw to Bush who is in single coverage.
c. Throw deep to Mathis who is in single coverage.
d. Give the ball to DD on a run, screen or draw.
e. Get sacked because he still has no Left tackle.

The #33 pick can help on option e. Looks pretty good to me and I want to trade the pick. Man.....we are sitting in a pretty good situation this year. I hope we don't screw it up.

Koolbrz
02-23-2006, 10:29 PM
carr is not on the team , vince young does a, b (does not exist) c, d, or e..... return the play for a touchdown because the defense couldn't cover. the screw up will come if we don't draft young.

http://media.putfile.com/UT-Trib

some of you fans need to learn what is like to be a champion. vince will lead u there. carr won't.


LOL...you guys are a trip...you forgot to mention that VY can make diamonds out of rain drops and skittles out of rainbows. VY will probbaly not even hit the field for another 2-3 yrs. Are we all willing to wait for him to learn to red defenses, develop an avg. arm, and dish out so much money to sign him that we probably will not be able to go after some FA help. Another thing VY on the roster does not make us an automatic contender and yes he might sell some tickets but when the honeymoon is over will the fans keep coming out. You know to see him ride the pine and watch a team that could have improved but instead drafted a homeboy that probably will not get playin time for another 3 yrs., because the fans wanted VY. I don't think so.

Napa Auto Parts
02-23-2006, 10:38 PM
One of the reasons Carr was selected by the Texans was because he beat up on several teams too.


True david had a decent senior year but he never played the kind of talent the big boys play san jose state and the utah aggies dont match up to the ohio states or usc's of the world.

stevo3883
02-23-2006, 10:55 PM
VY will probbaly not even hit the field for another 2-3 yrs. .

whats that credibility??

you want to jump out the window??

Dont do it credibility!!

You know to see him ride the pine and watch a team that could have improved but instead drafted a homeboy that probably will not get playin time for another 3 yrs.

bye credibility,we hardly knew ye.

Bubbajwp
02-23-2006, 11:05 PM
VY has the talent to start from day 1 but IMO it would bet smart to let him sit on the bench for one or two years while we can upgrade our oline and still give him time to adjust to the speed of the nfl.

Koolbrz
02-23-2006, 11:06 PM
whats that credibility??

you want to jump out the window??

Dont do it credibility!!



bye credibility,we hardly knew ye.


Dude, if you think VY is going to come into the league with guns blazin, you are dead wrong. He honestly needs another 2-3 yrs before he can start. He may have been a god in H.S. and college, he won't be in this league. At least not right away. I just don't see him doin the same thing right away in the NFL. IMO they will do him more harm starting him right away. He needs to learn how to read defenses, develop his arm some more and learn a totally new system. We are lookin at another 2-3 yrs like it or not.

thunderkyss
02-23-2006, 11:53 PM
I'm all for trading down and getting some stud lineman and more draft picks but these numbers do not lie.

Bush averaged an astounding 8.7 yards per carry this past season but only averaged 15.4 carries per contest. Then again, he had 16 rushing touchdowns on those 200 carries, a remarkable rate of a score every 12.5 totes. And these weren’t Jerome Bettis or Mike Alstott touchdown rumbles – Bush averaged 29.3 yards per scoring run.

That is just not human. How about this senario for next season?

Andre wide right - 4.35 speed
Mathis wide left - 4.2 speed
Gaffney lines up as the slot receiver - LIGHTNING
Does Carr?
a. Throw to Andre who is in single coverage.
b. Throw to Bush who is in single coverage.
c. Throw deep to Mathis who is in single coverage.
d. Give the ball to DD on a run, screen or draw.
e. Get sacked because he still has no Left tackle.

The #33 pick can help on option e. Looks pretty good to me and I want to trade the pick. Man.....we are sitting in a pretty good situation this year. I hope we don't screw it up.

There, I fixed it for you. I don't see any reason to add anything other than the Maybe an O-Lineman. With some decent coaching, Carr has the explosiveness he needs on offense. Throw in a recieving tight end, and it gets better.

Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to spend the #1 draft pick overall, on something we do not need. But if we do use it, let's use it as a plan B, to our biggest question............ is Carr going to take us to the Rose Bowl.... I mean Super Bowl :) .

I know. we haven't been able to protect Carr enough to be able to truly evaluate his abilities. At the same time, the reality is that we haven't got a good bead on him yet. Last year(2004), the first half anyway, he was pretty awesome. But can he sustain that kind of performance all year long?? two years in a row?? Does it make since to believe David can be like Peyton, who can/will perform year in, year out, allowing the rest of the team to be built around him??

Look, we are building a team. One day, it's going to be a good team. We've got talent at just about every position. It would be really nice, if our QB was ready to lead them. If that's David Carr, great. But I'd hate to realize we need a quarterback after next season, or half way through 2007.

Before you over react, re-read what I said. Let's trade down. But if we are going to use the #1, use it on Vince.

stevo3883
02-24-2006, 12:56 AM
Dude, if you think VY is going to come into the league with guns blazin, you are dead wrong. He honestly needs another 2-3 yrs before he can start. He may have been a god in H.S. and college, he won't be in this league. At least not right away. I just don't see him doin the same thing right away in the NFL. IMO they will do him more harm starting him right away. He needs to learn how to read defenses, develop his arm some more and learn a totally new system. We are lookin at another 2-3 yrs like it or not.


no i don't think he will come in guns blazing. but stating he will need 3 years before he even sees the field is the most ridiculously absurd thing ive ever seen.

bigTEXan8
02-24-2006, 09:51 AM
True david had a decent senior year but he never played the kind of talent the big boys play san jose state and the utah aggies dont match up to the ohio states or usc's of the world.

Utah wasn't in the WAC yet when DC was in college. Really, the only big boys they played was WISC, OR ST (who was ranked #1 at the time according to SI) and Colorado. Boise turned out to be a good team. But I do see what you are saying. "Thee" Ohio St. and USC are better, so I'm not argueing with you.

jerek
02-24-2006, 10:35 AM
VY will not only create a band wagon, but a frickin trainload wagon.... people are ready to buy season tickets if we draft young, i am one and not the only one.

http://media.putfile.com/UT-Trib

thats all and thats is

picking reggie bush is like picking fools gold. don't be a fool.

Last I knew there was an eight-year waiting list for season tickets. ARe you telling me an eight year waiting list dried up since the end of the season? Have you checked more recently, or are you again pulling an assumption out of your ***?

jerek
02-24-2006, 10:37 AM
There, I fixed it for you. I don't see any reason to add anything other than the Maybe an O-Lineman. With some decent coaching, Carr has the explosiveness he needs on offense. Throw in a recieving tight end, and it gets better.

Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to spend the #1 draft pick overall, on something we do not need. But if we do use it, let's use it as a plan B, to our biggest question............ is Carr going to take us to the Rose Bowl.... I mean Super Bowl :) .

I know. we haven't been able to protect Carr enough to be able to truly evaluate his abilities. At the same time, the reality is that we haven't got a good bead on him yet. Last year(2004), the first half anyway, he was pretty awesome. But can he sustain that kind of performance all year long?? two years in a row?? Does it make since to believe David can be like Peyton, who can/will perform year in, year out, allowing the rest of the team to be built around him??

Look, we are building a team. One day, it's going to be a good team. We've got talent at just about every position. It would be really nice, if our QB was ready to lead them. If that's David Carr, great. But I'd hate to realize we need a quarterback after next season, or half way through 2007.

Before you over react, re-read what I said. Let's trade down. But if we are going to use the #1, use it on Vince.

Thunder, I just lambasted you on another post, and what's this? You talking sense? I half agree with you. I am not sold on RB at the #1 spot. I still think he is probably better than VY just because RBBC works more than a QB controversy, but damn. I mean, I understand wanting Vince, there is a hell of a draw to getting the guy. It is just that, apparently like you, I think the team is best served by trading down.

thunderkyss
02-24-2006, 11:06 AM
Thunder, I just lambasted you on another post, and what's this? You talking sense? I half agree with you. I am not sold on RB at the #1 spot. I still think he is probably better than VY just because RBBC works more than a QB controversy, but damn. I mean, I understand wanting Vince, there is a hell of a draw to getting the guy. It is just that, apparently like you, I think the team is best served by trading down.

Lambasted?? Wait till I find that post....


@#$#$
$
@$%@

:redtowel:

Bubbajwp
02-24-2006, 12:24 PM
Agreed, good thing pitt didn't wait to put in big ben after 3 yrs.

and no i am not comparing the situations, but when people dogged vince for his throwing. how did he react? he didn't say a word, but came back and the next year LED the NATION in passing efficiency. saying vince needs time to adjust to the nfl speed, is a slap. what? running backs don't need the same time to adjust??? carr didn't have time to sit 2-3 yrs, does not mean vince must have 2-3 yrs.
Actually Big ben didnt start until Tommy Maddox got injured.

Joe Texan
02-24-2006, 01:12 PM
develop an avg. arm

Charlie said he has all the arm he needs

tsip
02-24-2006, 01:57 PM
LOL...you guys are a trip...you forgot to mention that VY can make diamonds out of rain drops and skittles out of rainbows. VY will probbaly not even hit the field for another 2-3 yrs. Are we all willing to wait for him to learn to red defenses, develop an avg. arm, and dish out so much money to sign him that we probably will not be able to go after some FA help. Another thing VY on the roster does not make us an automatic contender and yes he might sell some tickets but when the honeymoon is over will the fans keep coming out. You know to see him ride the pine and watch a team that could have improved but instead drafted a homeboy that probably will not get playin time for another 3 yrs., because the fans wanted VY. I don't think so.

...and Carr is going into year 5 and we're still a'waitin (please, spare the excuses, we all know them verbatim)

Koolbrz
02-24-2006, 04:21 PM
...and Carr is going into year 5 and we're still a'waitin (please, spare the excuses, we all know them verbatim)


Not excuses dude, just the facts. I see where you coming from though. If VY would have come out of college 4 yrs ago we probably would have won a SuperBowl by now. Hell, he might have been league MVP the last 2 yrs. No matter how the rest of the team has performed. VY can do it all. :muscles: Gimmie a break!!

thunderkyss
02-24-2006, 04:41 PM
Not excuses dude, just the facts. I see where you coming from though. If VY would have come out of college 4 yrs ago we probably would have won a SuperBowl by now. Hell, he might have been league MVP the last 2 yrs. No matter how the rest of the team has performed. VY can do it all. :muscles: !!


Finally, somebody gets it.


:)

Koolbrz
02-24-2006, 05:06 PM
for all the "experts" that think young can't pass....

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Young-05-Highlights

that doesn't even include what he did to the greatest college team EVER according to more "experts"

when it was 4th down, this GREAT reggie bush was on the sidelines. and then later on another 4th and 5 vince converted.

those that think vince can't take the pounding in the nfl, you must look at his style, he doesn't get hit very often.


A coaching decision kept Bush from being on the field. Bonehead move by the coaches considering he was avg. 6+ yds a carry against the 2nd ranked defense in the nation and you forget to mention that VY was playin the 40th ranked defense in the nation.

Koolbrz
02-24-2006, 05:11 PM
Agreed, good thing pitt didn't wait to put in big ben after 3 yrs.

and no i am not comparing the situations, but when people dogged vince for his throwing. how did he react? he didn't say a word, but came back and the next year LED the NATION in passing efficiency. saying vince needs time to adjust to the nfl speed, is a slap. what? running backs don't need the same time to adjust??? carr didn't have time to sit 2-3 yrs, does not mean vince must have 2-3 yrs.


Pitt. has an outstanding line. They could have started any top rookie QB and they would have had some kind of success.

thunderkyss
02-24-2006, 05:14 PM
Bonehead move or not...... if he is the best player on your team, you give him the ball, plain and simple. What is your best option?? Now this Bonehead got that team 1.5 National titles.... Undefeated, 2005........ But in this one instance, with the game on the line, he just up and forgets his best option??


Get over it. Pete went with his best option..... it wasn't Reggie.... IF he had to do it all over again, he probably would.

infantrycak
02-24-2006, 07:50 PM
we already know carr has NEVER faced a similar situation,

Other than dropping a perfect pass into his WR's hands to win the game and having it dropped, clearly DC has NEVER faced a similar situation. Buy hey, if he had been enough of a leader, Bradford would have caught that pass.

HJam72
02-24-2006, 07:51 PM
I'm quite certain that Carr could light up USC's defense. Carr plays for a bad team in the NFL, which had one of, if not the, worst coaching staff EVER, not a great TEAM in college. Vince Young is a good QB, but he is being WAY over-hyped and we don't need a QB. If UT's defense was as bad as USC's, Matt Leinhart would be God right now.

Carr Bombed
02-24-2006, 08:32 PM
not to sound rude or anything, but the sooner yall realize and come to terms were not taking Young, the easier it will be come draft day, although I have a feeling your only posting here, because there WAS a chance Vince would play his pro career here and if thats the case have fun being a Titans fan or whatever team Vince falls to.

HJam72
02-24-2006, 08:55 PM
That's right. Don't think, just pretend we're all little toddlers on the playground and pick your hero because he played for your favorite team. Sheesh. I don't even think Young is considered the best QB in this draft by most of the people in the 49 other states.

TexanSam
02-24-2006, 09:15 PM
for all the "experts" that think young can't pass....

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Young-05-Highlights

that doesn't even include what he did to the greatest college team EVER according to more "experts"

when it was 4th down, this GREAT reggie bush was on the sidelines. and then later on another 4th and 5 vince converted.

those that think vince can't take the pounding in the nfl, you must look at his style, he doesn't get hit very often.


also, if anybody believes the Texans have an 8 yr waiting list for season tickets is on crack. hell, i am on the waiting list, but i won't buy them if young is not on the roster. lastly, i mentioned my friend's sister is a cheerleader. her parents bought season tickets last year after 1 or 2 games. they didn't have to deal with any waiting list.


Bamboo, you don't make a very convincing argument in any of your posts for Vince Young. Now I know I can't change your's or anyone's mind on this because we've all pretty much made up our mind on this issue. It's the Texans call not ours. But I'll give you my opinion anyway.

Bamboo, you're what we call a bandwagon fan. You've admitted it so I won't go on with that. But if Vince Young sucks in the NFL, which there is a chance that can happen believe it or not, and Reggie Bush is having an amazing career with the Texans, I'm pretty sure you'll be back in line for season tickets. Now don't come out saying there's no way Vince Young won't do well in the NFL. He was an amazing college QB. There's been a bunch of amazing college QB's who've done nothing in the NFL.

And as for your comment about Vince not getting hit very often. That's true, he didn't. In college. I remember Mike Vick didn't get hit very often either at Virginia Tech. He's been injured a few times in the NFL, one which made him sit out a season. To say Vince won't get hit in the NFL often is stupid. He's not going to be that fast when he's in his 30's, assuming he plays that long. It's easy to contradict you're argument, but I think you're looking through everything in burnt orange glasses.

Bubbajwp
02-25-2006, 12:11 AM
for all the "experts" that think young can't pass....

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Young-05-Highlights

that doesn't even include what he did to the greatest college team EVER according to more "experts"

when it was 4th down, this GREAT reggie bush was on the sidelines. and then later on another 4th and 5 vince converted.

those that think vince can't take the pounding in the nfl, you must look at his style, he doesn't get hit very often.


also, if anybody believes the Texans have an 8 yr waiting list for season tickets is on crack. hell, i am on the waiting list, but i won't buy them if young is not on the roster. lastly, i mentioned my friend's sister is a cheerleader. her parents bought season tickets last year after 1 or 2 games. they didn't have to deal with any waiting list.
A video clip of his highlights doesnt prove he is a good passer. There called highlights for a reason. Key word HIGHLIGHTS.

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 01:26 AM
Bonehead move or not...... if he is the best player on your team, you give him the ball, plain and simple. What is your best option?? Now this Bonehead got that team 1.5 National titles.... Undefeated, 2005........ But in this one instance, with the game on the line, he just up and forgets his best option??


Get over it. Pete went with his best option..... it wasn't Reggie.... IF he had to do it all over again, he probably would.


Pete slipped up..I sure as hell did say it. I don't care what he did the last couple of yrs he screwed up by not having Bush in the game for that 4 and 2. Everyone saw it coming. Give the ball to White. Put Reggie on the field and you just don't know what way your going to go so you can't stack your defensive guys up on the line. Like i said the first time BONEHEAD MOVE!!!

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 01:39 AM
what bonehead move allowed carr go 2-14 this past year?

if it is 4th and 5 on the 12 yard line, 26 seconds left in the game. do you want bush, carr, or young on your team??? you can only choose one. we already know bush was on the sideline for 4th and 2. we already know carr has NEVER faced a similar situation, and we already know what young did in that situation.

BUT ERASE all that and ask yourself, who would you want on YOUR TEAM??? in that scenario????

who do you want in a crisis??? bush, carr or young?

Oh, i'm sorry Carr went 2-14 all by himself. I thought this was a team game. I guess it did not matter that the defense could not stop anyone in the second half of all there games, that there o-line pretty much sucked, and there coaching staff was the worst ever. You also had your top 2 offensive threats out for almost half the season. I see where you are coming from, it was Carr's decision to go 2-14 and its all his fault. There is no one else to blame. Your funny dude... One more thing 4 and 2 in the playoffs, game on the line who do i go to....................Reggie. Too many ways you can use this guy defenses have to respect that and can't load up the defensive line with there players. He my friend is called a GAMEBREAKER. Remember that okay. Take those burnt orange sun glasses off. Its not good for your health to have them on 24/7.

chuckm
02-25-2006, 07:14 AM
so who led the nation in passing efficiency?? key word NATION.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&year=2005&group=80

Rudy Carpenter, Arizona State


that's RUDY

infantrycak
02-25-2006, 08:04 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&year=2005&group=80

Rudy Carpenter, Arizona State


that's RUDY

now that's CLASSIC

infantrycak
02-25-2006, 09:05 AM
classic only because of the rose bowl. after the season, vince led the nation. after the rose bowl and winning the national championship he fell a whole 2 spots. classic is when 2-14 fans, knock a player that has rushed for over 1000 yds and passed for over 3000 yards.

Dude, quit while you are behind. No one knocked VY. You made an assertion and it wasn't correct. Love to see where VY fell in the rankings because of his Rose Bowl performance--got proof?

what did norm chow say about reggie?

Well gee Wilbur I don't know--oh yeah, I was the one who posted that 1st on this MB. Thanks for reminding me.

thunderkyss
02-25-2006, 09:16 AM
Pete slipped up..I sure as hell did say it. I don't care what he did the last couple of yrs he screwed up by not having Bush in the game for that 4 and 2. Everyone saw it coming. Give the ball to White. Put Reggie on the field and you just don't know what way your going to go so you can't stack your defensive guys up on the line. Like i said the first time BONEHEAD MOVE!!!

Now, let's think about this. If I say David Carr doesn't have the Talent to take the Texans to the SuperBowl, but Dan Reeves says he does, can I use "Dan Reeves screwed up"? I don't care what he did in the past..... he screwed up when he said David Carr can win it all. Everybody knew what Reeves was going to say.... especially when Matt Lienart was the best looking thing in the draft.
Well, since Reeves forgot more football than I've seen, my opinion doesn't mean crap. I can understand how you would just ignore my statements, consider them frivolous babble, me just desperately clinging to my point.


At the same time, if Pete Caroll (a man most would agree knows more about college football than guys like you or me......... hence the 1.5 National Championships) Didn't think Bush offered anything at all on 4 & 2, not as a decoy, not as a blocker, and definitely not as the ball handler, and you say it was a bonehead move, understand I will not give your statement serious thought...... much like your thoughts on my opinion above.

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 06:14 PM
Now, let's think about this. If I say David Carr doesn't have the Talent to take the Texans to the SuperBowl, but Dan Reeves says he does, can I use "Dan Reeves screwed up"? I don't care what he did in the past..... he screwed up when he said David Carr can win it all. Everybody knew what Reeves was going to say.... especially when Matt Lienart was the best looking thing in the draft.
Well, since Reeves forgot more football than I've seen, my opinion doesn't mean crap. I can understand how you would just ignore my statements, consider them frivolous babble, me just desperately clinging to my point.


At the same time, if Pete Caroll (a man most would agree knows more about college football than guys like you or me......... hence the 1.5 National Championships) Didn't think Bush offered anything at all on 4 & 2, not as a decoy, not as a blocker, and definitely not as the ball handler, and you say it was a bonehead move, understand I will not give your statement serious thought...... much like your thoughts on my opinion above.


Look all i'm saying is that if you have Bush in the game you can not i repeat can not over look the fact that he is out there. It changes the way you play a team defensively. Am i not correct. Even if you just had him out there as a decoy, it just might have given White enough room to gain the 2 yds that were needed. Of course we will never know. That is why IMO it was a bonehead play. Thats like having TO on your squad. Its 4 and 6 and you must go for it. You bench TO and bring in his back-up. Now do you honestly think that is a smart move? I don't think so.

thunderkyss
02-25-2006, 07:11 PM
Obviously Pete Carroll doesn't think as highly of Regie Bush, as you do of Terrell Owens...

TexanSam
02-25-2006, 07:15 PM
At the same time, if Pete Caroll (a man most would agree knows more about college football than guys like you or me......... hence the 1.5 National Championships) Didn't think Bush offered anything at all on 4 & 2, not as a decoy, not as a blocker, and definitely not as the ball handler, and you say it was a bonehead move, understand I will not give your statement serious thought...... much like your thoughts on my opinion above.


Coaches makes blunders also. Dom Capers made a lot of them.

thunderkyss
02-25-2006, 08:09 PM
Coaches makes blunders also. Dom Capers made a lot of them.

That isn't just a blunder. A blunder would have been to have him on the field, and not get him the ball... To call Lendales number, or a QB sneek.

But to not even be on the field........

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 08:48 PM
Obviously Pete Carroll doesn't think as highly of Regie Bush, as you do of Terrell Owens...


TO is a great WR. He just has to much attitude and his head got a lil to big for his own good. Dude can make a really good football team into a SB contender. We all saw that with Philly. Too bad he behaved the way he did this last yr. P. Carroll thought that because White was having a great game, that he would pick up those 2 yds. It did not work...HeHe...costing him the game. Knowing what he knows now, If he could do it all over again, i bet he would more than likely put Bush on the field. Even if he were just a decoy.

Bubbajwp
02-25-2006, 09:17 PM
number 1 draft picks are on the field when it counts. unless, you are the texans braintrust. then you pick a guy whos college coach has him on the sideline.



but what do weeeeeee internet experts know???

VY was 30-2 as a starter. he is a hometown hero. i want the Texans to draft him , this is a young franchise. i want to root for them with all my heart, but if they select bush, they are bush league. it has been something like 50 yrs since a #1 running back was chosen that took his team to the super bowl.

give me a freakin break from all the aggies that are polluting the Texans. these folk are used to mediocrity. can u blame them? i went to UT i expect the best, if the Texans pass on VY, i will be here not as a fan, but as a fan of the team that selects VY. the team with VY will succeed. mark my words.
Now it all makes sense

Koolbrz
02-25-2006, 09:55 PM
number 1 draft picks are on the field when it counts. unless, you are the texans braintrust. then you pick a guy whos college coach has him on the sideline.



but what do weeeeeee internet experts know???

VY was 30-2 as a starter. he is a hometown hero. i want the Texans to draft him , this is a young franchise. i want to root for them with all my heart, but if they select bush, they are bush league. it has been something like 50 yrs since a #1 running back was chosen that took his team to the super bowl.

give me a freakin break from all the aggies that are polluting the Texans. these folk are used to mediocrity. can u blame them? i went to UT i expect the best, if the Texans pass on VY, i will be here not as a fan, but as a fan of the team that selects VY. the team with VY will succeed. mark my words.
You will no longer be a fan if we don't draft Young...lol...gimmie a break. A true Texan Fan will support this team regardless of who they pick. Stick with them through the good times as well as the bad. You want to walk if they don't draft VY...C-YA...Don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.:brickwall

Wharton
02-26-2006, 08:44 AM
quoted deleted material

We already have another thread for that subject

Can we close this thread - its gotten to the absurd level?

Carr Bombed
02-26-2006, 09:57 AM
You will no longer be a fan if we don't draft Young...lol...gimmie a break. A true Texan Fan will support this team regardless of who they pick. Stick with them through the good times as well as the bad. You want to walk if they don't draft VY...C-YA...Don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.:brickwall

He's not a Texan fan, He's a Vince Young fan, thats pretty obvious with the Vince is God propaganda and the aggie bashing. Note to bambo or any other person here just because there was a chance we were going to take Vince (or as I like to call them the "Jan. 2006ers", no offense to the new members that joined under unbiased terms) This is the pro game and not college football so all the Aggie comments holds no water. This is pro football and not the big twelve. This is pro football where QBs have to stand tall in the pocket and take snaps from under center.

I am also a UT fan and root for Vince and wish him all the success in the world, but if drafting him means we have to endure countless Vince is God threads or a flood of bandwagoners like this one, I vote to pass. That is what upsets me the most I loved the rosebowl, but now I can't even enjoy it, because people have to jump on this board with all their "draft vince or armageddon" threads. Like some big burnt orange comet is going to take out houston if we don't draft Vince.

Thank you Jan 2006ers, thank you for taking one of my most beloved sports memories and flushing it down the drain. Thank you for making me wish we never won that game.

Vince isn't even the #1 prospect at his position, so how in the hell could he be considered the #1 ovrl. pick. Oh yeah I forgot this is Texas and he's the "Home town Hero" :rolleyes:

Koolbrz
02-26-2006, 11:31 AM
He's not a Texan fan, He's a Vince Young fan, thats pretty obvious with the Vince is God propaganda and the aggie bashing. Note to bambo or any other person here just because there was a chance we were going to take Vince (or I like to call them the "Jan. 2006ers", no offense to the new members that joined under unbiased terms) This is the pro game and not college football so all the Aggie comments holds no water. This is pro football and not the big twelve. This is pro football where QBs have to stand tall in the pocket and take snaps from under center.

I am also a UT fan and root for Vince and wish him all the success in the world, but if drafting him means we have to endure countless Vince is God threads or a flood of bandwagoners like this one, I vote to pass. That is what upsets me the most I loved the rosebowl, but now I can't even enjoy it, because people have to jump on this board with all their "draft vince or armageddon" threads. Like some big burnt orange comet is going to take out houston if we don't draft Vince.

Thank you Jan 2006ers, thank you for taking one of my most beloved sports memories and flushing it down the drain. Thank you for making me wish we never won that game.

Vince isn't even the #1 prospect at his position, so how and the hell could he be considered the #1 ovrl. pick. Oh yeah I forgot this is Texas and he's the "Home town Hero" :rolleyes:


Nicely said, Carr Bomb

tsip
02-26-2006, 01:06 PM
He's not a Texan fan, He's a Vince Young fan, thats pretty obvious with the Vince is God propaganda and the aggie bashing. Note to bambo or any other person here just because there was a chance we were going to take Vince (or as I like to call them the "Jan. 2006ers", no offense to the new members that joined under unbiased terms) This is the pro game and not college football so all the Aggie comments holds no water. This is pro football and not the big twelve. This is pro football where QBs have to stand tall in the pocket and take snaps from under center.

I am also a UT fan and root for Vince and wish him all the success in the world, but if drafting him means we have to endure countless Vince is God threads or a flood of bandwagoners like this one, I vote to pass. That is what upsets me the most I loved the rosebowl, but now I can't even enjoy it, because people have to jump on this board with all their "draft vince or armageddon" threads. Like some big burnt orange comet is going to take out houston if we don't draft Vince.

Thank you Jan 2006ers, thank you for taking one of my most beloved sports memories and flushing it down the drain. Thank you for making me wish we never won that game.

Vince isn't even the #1 prospect at his position, so how in the hell could he be considered the #1 ovrl. pick. Oh yeah I forgot this is Texas and he's the "Home town Hero" :rolleyes:

...bet you'd be suprised if you took a count of the Carr/Bush lover posts vs Young backers and who keeps opening up these 'tire tread' threads anyway?

Carr Bombed
02-26-2006, 02:03 PM
...bet you'd be suprised if you took a count of the Carr/Bush lover posts vs Young backers and who keeps opening up these 'tire tread' threads anyway? Since the rosebowl there hasn't been a draft "Carr,Bush or die crowd" so no. Vince is a outstanding athlete, being a die hard UT fan I recognize that.

However having said that, coming in to this draft Young is a project at best. He has great upside, but since we hold the #1 pick in the draft and if there truly is any arguments whether he should take a QB and look for a replacement for Carr, Lienart as well as Cutler should be included in the argument.

I also find all the "Young is a winner" and "Young is a leader" comments funny, because the same arguments could be said about Lienart and bush. Lienart has a BETTER record than Young and ran a pro style offense and both have a better record than young.

Every other state outside of texas has us grabbing Young at a REACH and all have us grabbing bush or trading down. Us bypassing every other prospect just because Young is a "HOME TOWN HERO" is absolutely rediculous. I hope the Texans front office feels the same way.

Look I appreciate everything Young did for Texas, but I'm tired of people acting like if and its a big IF, we draft him he is going to come in and be a savior, its not going to happen and if he did happen to come here he would have to face the same problems as Carr, as in a lack in offensive weapons, lack in protection, and a lack in a solid defense on the other sid of the ball.

People like to say that Vince single handedly won the national title, but thats not true. I can't even remember how many 3rd down cathes Thomas caught for him and how many big plays his defense came up with for him. With being drafted high in the draft, he isn't going to be going to that kinda team, people need to get real.

stevo3883
02-26-2006, 02:19 PM
Dude, quit while you are behind. No one knocked VY. You made an assertion and it wasn't correct. Love to see where VY fell in the rankings because of his Rose Bowl performance--got proof?



He finished the season 1st, but was passed after the rose bowl because rudy carpernter didn't play the whole season. carpenter only got enough attempts to qualify after the bowl game.

stevo3883
02-26-2006, 02:26 PM
Since the rosebowl there hasn't been a draft "Carr,Bush or die crowd" so no. Vince is a outstanding athlete, being a die hard UT fan I recognize that. yes there has... pretty much every aggy on the board spends every day degrading VY

However having said that, coming in to this draft Young is a project at best. He has great upside, but since we hold the #1 pick in the draft and if there truly is any arguments whether he should take a QB and look for a replacement for Carr, Lienart as well as Cutler should be included in the argument. a project at best? at best he comes in and wins the super bowl next year. perhaps you meant worst case hes a project

I also find all the "Young is a winner" and "Young is a leader" comments funny, because the same arguments could be said about Lienart and bush. Lienart has a BETTER record than Young and ran a pro style offense and both have a better record than young. 37-2 versus 30-2. had vy stayed his senior year he wouldve no doubt passed leinart. after their jr years vy has a 30-2 to leinarts 25-1

Every other state outside of texas has us grabbing Young at a REACH and all have us grabbing bush or trading down. Us bypassing every other prospect just because Young is a "HOME TOWN HERO" is absolutely rediculous. I hope the Texans front office feels the same way.yeah, thats the only reason we would pick young..

Look I appreciate everything Young did for Texas, but I'm tired of people acting like if and its a big IF, we draft him he is going to come in and be a savior, its not going to happen and if he did happen to come here he would have to face the same problems as Carr, as in a lack in offensive weapons, lack in protection, and a lack in a solid defense on the other sid of the ball.

People like to say that Vince single handedly won the national title, but thats not true. I can't even remember how many 3rd down cathes Thomas caught for him and how many big plays his defense came up with for him. Being drafted high in the draft he isn't going to be going to that kinda team, people need to get real.lets put it this way, any other qb playing for texas and they lose by at least 2 td's that game.
tsk

BuffSoldier
02-26-2006, 02:26 PM
Dude, quit while you are behind. No one knocked VY. You made an assertion and it wasn't correct. Love to see where VY fell in the rankings because of his Rose Bowl performance--got proof?



I dont want VY, just for the record, but prior to the Rose Bowl, VY did have the #1 passer rating in the nation. I guess it fell becuase he didnt throw a TD in the game. But yeah VY was the leader prior to the roswe bowl, but I dont have proof either.

tsip
02-26-2006, 02:30 PM
Since the rosebowl there hasn't been a draft "Carr,Bush or die crowd" so no. Vince is a outstanding athlete, being a die hard UT fan I recognize that.

However having said that, coming in to this draft Young is a project at best. He has great upside, but since we hold the #1 pick in the draft and if there truly is any arguments whether he should take a QB and look for a replacement for Carr, Lienart as well as Cutler should be included in the argument.

I also find all the "Young is a winner" and "Young is a leader" comments funny, because the same arguments could be said about Lienart and bush. Lienart has a BETTER record than Young and ran a pro style offense and both have a better record than young.

Every other state outside of texas has us grabbing Young at a REACH and all have us grabbing bush or trading down. Us bypassing every other prospect just because Young is a "HOME TOWN HERO" is absolutely rediculous. I hope the Texans front office feels the same way.

Look I appreciate everything Young did for Texas, but I'm tired of people acting like if and its a big IF, we draft him he is going to come in and be a savior, its not going to happen and if he did happen to come here he would have to face the same problems as Carr, as in a lack in offensive weapons, lack in protection, and a lack in a solid defense on the other sid of the ball.

People like to say that Vince single handedly won the national title, but thats not true. I can't even remember how many 3rd down cathes Thomas caught for him and how many big plays his defense came up with for him. With being drafted high in the draft, he isn't going to be going to that kinda team, people need to get real.

...at least get your facts straight---Young and Leinart each had 2 losses and UT also ran a pro type offense (big story about it in the Austin-American today)...and,remember, this is a forum

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 02:39 PM
...at least get your facts straight---Young and Leinart each had 2 losses and UT also ran a pro type offense (big story about it in the Austin-American today)...and,remember, this is a forum
I disagree. A running QB is not a pro-style offense. He can't even take snaps from under center. He has to rely on the shotgun formation. While the shotgun formation is pro-style, a running QB is not, period. Vince Dumb is at the most a project QB who will not even start his first season in the NFL. If you are such a UT fan, aren't you PO'd he left your school BEFORE getting an education? I would feel used and betrayed.

I don't care who we draft, as long as it is a needs draft and not this UT fan favorite crap. If I thought for 1 minute we were going to draft a QB, I would be pulling for Matt Leinart to be the one, not VY.

So please, like so many before me, GIVE US REAL TEXAN FANS A BREAK....

stevo3883
02-26-2006, 03:03 PM
So please, like so many before me, GIVE US REAL AGGY FANS A BREAK....


fixed

HomeBred_Texan
02-26-2006, 03:14 PM
fixed
Not hardly. I have never seen an Aggies game live, but did see a Texas game, the Big Conference Championship with Colorado. So please don't edit my words and try and make them sound like something else. I have backed every school in Texas, from the days of Eric at SMU to Bucky at A&M to Vince at UT. But do not fall into a cat that says this school sports is better than that school. I am first and foremost a Houston Texans fan and as long as we do not mess this draft up by selecting Vince we are OK. But even if we did mess up and do that, I am still a TEXAN'S FAN FIRST...

Carr Bombed
02-26-2006, 03:26 PM
...at least get your facts straight---Young and Leinart each had 2 losses and UT also ran a pro type offense (big story about it in the Austin-American today)...and,remember, this is a forum

Umm....the spread Offense is not a pro style offense, go ask alex smith how its working for him. I don't have the energy to bring up the dozens of articles on the type of offense Vince ran, but I will if you want to force this issue. Vince didn''t run a pro offense. When he started to QB Texas they had a pro offense, but they had to change it to fit his style. Also I know this is a forum, which is why I'm able to post these arguments about Young and its the reason why I'm able to bring up the argument that if we are looking for a replacement at QB then why aren't Lienart and Cutler brought into the discusion.....hmm....I wonder why, could the fact that they didn't play for Texas be brought into the discusion.

Tulip
02-26-2006, 03:40 PM
He can't even take snaps from under center. He has to rely on the shotgun formation. .

"Didn't" isn't the same thing as "can't". And "didn't" isn't really that accurate either.

infantrycak
02-26-2006, 04:21 PM
I dont want VY, just for the record, but prior to the Rose Bowl, VY did have the #1 passer rating in the nation. I guess it fell becuase he didnt throw a TD in the game. But yeah VY was the leader prior to the roswe bowl, but I dont have proof either.

I hear ya, but really, did his passer rating fall 10 points after one of the greatest games ever? Seems hard to believe even without a TD. The leader has better stats in every category (not saying he is a better NFL QB) but it is easy to see how his rating is higher.

tsip
02-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Umm....the spread Offense is not a pro style offense, go ask alex smith how its working for him. I don't have the energy to bring up the dozens of articles on the type of offense Vince ran, but I will if you want to force this issue. Vince didn''t run a pro offense. When he started to QB Texas they had a pro offense, but they had to change it to fit his style. Also I know this is a forum, which is why I'm able to post these arguments about Young and its the reason why I'm able to bring up the argument that if we are looking for a replacement at QB then why aren't Lienart and Cutler brought into the discusion.....hmm....I wonder why, could the fact that they didn't play for Texas be brought into the discusion.

First, I don't care where our players went to school--just expect them to get results, not excuses. Second, I've never said I wanted VY. However, I do not believe that Carr is the answer--saying this, however, I expect the team to get him whatever and everything he needs so that he can produce on the field. IMO, it is 'mind boggling' that we are talking about what Carr 'can do' instead of what he 'has done' going into year 5. Finally, where did you go to school?:yahoo:

infantrycak
02-28-2006, 10:16 AM
silly mack brown thinks vince led the nation too. i better send him that espn link.

http://msn.foxsports.com/regional/southwest

in the video, he references his passing efficiency.

So Mack Brown is now a national stats keeper? Get a grip. Obviously folks were saying that in reference to the "major" QB's, senior QB's, QB's in BCS bowls or something but Carpenter actually had the best passer efficiency rating. It's pretty easy to see he does since his completion percentage is higher, his yards per attempt are higher, his TD's/attempt are equal and his INT's/attempt are much better. That doesn't make VY any worse a QB just because he can't claim the overall PE title.

Here is Foxsports (http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/sortableStats?div=CFB&stable=passing&stat=passRate&dir=descending) with the same ratings.

chuckm
02-28-2006, 10:18 AM
Ok I just got off the phone with Mack (he and I go way back). Expect a retraction tomorrow. Thanks Wordem uh I mean Bamboo for pointing this out ....

TexanSam
02-28-2006, 04:51 PM
this looks like texas was 5th in D and usc was #27

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/sortableStatsTeam?div=CFB&stype=DEFENSE&stable=overall&stat=overallPtsGm&dir=ascending

doesn't really matter, vince converted on 4th and 5, something most qb's couldn't have done. he overcame a 12 pts. in 6 minutes. this guy is a leader and pretty much unstoppable.

Yes, unstoppable. In college. How often he'll convert on 4th and 5 in the pros is a different matter. He won't be a 3000/1000 QB in the NFL. If he runs as much as he did in college, he'll be lucky to not get injured. You don't run in the NFL without taking some sort of beating (ask Mike Vick). He has the potential to be a better pro than David Carr. VY will probably be a good player, at least I think he will. I also think David Carr will be a good player. We don't need two good QB's on this team. Draft Bush or trade the pick. Don't draft Vince.

BigMac8
02-28-2006, 04:54 PM
How can the texans NOT draft vince young? Simple-Wonderlic 6
The cover-up is on...Protect Vince Young and UT's reputation.

SnakeOilTanker
02-28-2006, 05:52 PM
i havent read through this because this all rehashed arguments but....

the only QB situation we have is who is DC's backup now that we cut Banks

tulexan
02-28-2006, 06:08 PM
did u watch the super bowl?? geez, vincent woulda, coulda, shoulda.


Yeah, he will be a much better Randle El or Hines Ward.

bigTEXan8
02-28-2006, 06:44 PM
How can the texans NOT draft vince young? Simple-Wonderlic 6
The cover-up is on...Protect Vince Young and UT's reputation.

I remember someone saying that DC was dumb as bricks...so since VY scored a 6 on his wonerlic, what exactly does that make him? What exactly is dumber than bricks? I just think it's funny that VY has made all the wrong moves since leaving college. I don't agree with Jim Rome hardly at all, but he hit the nail on the head there.

tulexan
02-28-2006, 06:46 PM
What exactly is dumber than bricks?

Vince Young

edo783
02-28-2006, 07:31 PM
I remember someone saying that DC was dumb as bricks...so since VY scored a 6 on his wonerlic, what exactly does that make him? What exactly is dumber than bricks? I just think it's funny that VY has made all the wrong moves since leaving college. I don't agree with Jim Rome hardly at all, but he hit the nail on the head there.

Let's see VY = 6 and DC = 24 Beats me who had the better score.:ok:

infantrycak
02-28-2006, 08:38 PM
by the way, it has been STATED AS FACT, that vy did not score a 6, are u a moron or just a hater???

Start up with the names and your posts will be deleted as a 1st step.

Multiple sources are still reporting that VY did score a 6 on a 1st test and thereafter retested at a higher score. There are other reports calling the 6 false, but there doesn't seem to be any consistant explanation of why it was false. Absent blind adoption of whichever facts support your case best (i.e. what you are doing), there is no reason to call anyone out at this point.

HJam72
02-28-2006, 09:02 PM
I heard it was really a 5. :)

Bubbajwp
02-28-2006, 10:05 PM
lets see, VY went 13-0 this past season. DC went 2-14.

i think VY coulda done just as bad as DC, heck i think he coulda done better, because of talent.

by the way, it has been STATED AS FACT, that vy did not score a 6, are u a moron or just a hater???

I looked at all of your posts and can you guess what I found. About 65 of them are about VY being the greatest of all time or Carr being the worst of all time or bush being the most over hyped prospect of all time. If anybody is a moron or a hater its you.

Koolbrz
02-28-2006, 10:12 PM
i really agree with somebody that scores a 6, which has been proven WRONG, over the intelligence of somebody that can't spell wonderlic.


show me how vincent is not the best player EVER. nobody has ever run for 1k or thrown for 3k EVER in college history in a single season.... did u get that ... EVER i seemed to mention.

how long has college football been around??? give that ever some thought. try to think in a championship brain mode. you don't want carr as your qb, but young. why? he is PROVEN.


That is college football homie!!! NFL is a whole different game. VY is a big project at best. Open your eyes and take off the burnt orange shades. HeHe Your so funny...oh by the way, after next season, do you really think VY will be eligible for the HOF??

edo783
02-28-2006, 10:18 PM
HeHe Your so funny...oh by the way, after next season, do you really think VY will be eligible for the HOF??

The really sad thing is.......yes, he does.

Koolbrz
02-28-2006, 10:19 PM
Did it ever cross anyone's mind that maybe, just maybe, he did score a 6 and now they are covering up the facts. You know, so that it will not here him in the draft considering all the hype around him. (VY)

thunderkyss
02-28-2006, 10:50 PM
That is college football homie!!! NFL is a whole different game. VY is a big project at best. Open your eyes and take off the burnt orange shades. HeHe Your so funny...oh by the way, after next season, do you really think VY will be eligible for the HOF??


That's what they said about McNair, McNabb, Cullpepper, & Vick..... Yet they've all managed to win more than 2 games every season they played...

tulexan
02-28-2006, 10:56 PM
Did it ever cross anyone's mind that maybe, just maybe, he did score a 6 and now they are covering up the facts. You know, so that it will not here him in the draft considering all the hype around him. (VY)


I'm not saying that I agree with it, but ProFootballTalk.com was saying yesterday that the NFL is trying to cover it all up because Mack Brown is really pissed off now and they need to appease him (and every other college coach) because that is how NFL scouts and personnel get access to the college players before the college football season ends which makes the evaluation process much easier.

The Dude Abides
02-28-2006, 11:47 PM
That's what they said about McNair, McNabb, Cullpepper, & Vick..... Yet they've all managed to win more than 2 games every season they played...

Count the Super Bowl Victories.

stevo3883
03-01-2006, 12:01 AM
Count the Super Bowl Victories.


marino, manning, elway, favre.

that is my list for the top 4 qbs in history. how many super bowl victories? 3.

teams win super bowls qbs just help.

tulexan
03-01-2006, 12:07 AM
marino, manning, elway, favre.

that is my list for the top 4 qbs in history. how many super bowl victories? 3.

teams win super bowls qbs just help.


How can you leave off Joe Montana? No one was more clutch than Joe Cool.

Bubbajwp
03-01-2006, 12:07 AM
marino, manning, elway, favre.

that is my list for the top 4 qbs in history. how many super bowl victories? 3.

teams win super bowls qbs just help.
Key word.

Big B Texan Fan
03-01-2006, 12:33 AM
Key word.
Your reference to the term "Teams win, QB's just help".
Every player is taken one at a time, even if you trade the pick you still have to pick whoever you pick one at a time

HJam72
03-01-2006, 07:51 AM
The fact is that we're now stuck with Carr. I would have taken Young before paying Carr what they are paying him. I just wanted to pay him what other teams were willing to, which I'm sure would have been less. Now, we will suffer a huge cap hit if he is released, traded, whatever and, of course, having Young and Carr would be stupid expensive. I do think that Leinhart will be better than Young, but not much. They'll both be very good after a few years of learning. This thing about Young's brain power is probably not important (I think :confused: ), because I'm not of the opinion that playing football takes a whole lot of intelligence anyway. Sorry, I'm just not. I'm sure some of them are very smart, but football doesn't demand it (not being a player). Even if VY scored a 6, which I do believe he did the first time, he'll still be a great QB (I think). He just better be, because he's not going to be earning much money anywhere else. :)

bigTEXan8
03-01-2006, 10:23 AM
show me how vincent is not the best player EVER. nobody has ever run for 1k or thrown for 3k EVER in college history in a single season.... did u get that ... EVER i seemed to mention.

Congrats to him, that's a solid accomplishment, but I'm sorry. The wonerlic isn't exactly the SATs even. CA has this test you have to take so you can get out of HS. From my understanding of both that test and the wonderlic, they are about the same. (2+2)/2, who was our first president, etc. Not really that hard.

exclude
03-01-2006, 11:23 AM
...Not to mention he was sacked 32 times in his senior season, that's kinda steep if you consider VY and Leinert had less than 20 combined....

How can you seriously write this, knowing full well that VY and Lienart had NFL-quality talent guarding him at the college level??

Bubbajwp
03-01-2006, 06:34 PM
Your reference to the term "Teams win, QB's just help".
Every player is taken one at a time, even if you trade the pick you still have to pick whoever you pick one at a time
Just because you take players one at a time doesnt mean its not a team sport.