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View Full Version : Gary Walker at DE????


Darporini
02-18-2006, 01:57 PM
Does anyone think that Gary Walker could be the team's strongside DE if the coaching staff asked him to drop 20 - 25 lbs. in the offseason?

He is listed at 305 lbs. Is this accurate?

By doing so, it give the team more options upfront. It would also be more beneficial to Walker. By playing at a lighter weight, he would probably be more effective as a pass rusher.

Coach C.
02-18-2006, 01:59 PM
Honestly no. He has played SDE before and he could likely play it on rushing downs, but he is past his prime and does not have the speed to get it done. Plus G-Funk may not be with the team after all is said and done.

BuffSoldier
02-18-2006, 02:31 PM
I think that hes too big an too slow to have any effect on the pass rush. He may be able to be a run stuffer in short yardage situations, but he is not an every down DE.

HJam72
02-18-2006, 03:00 PM
Geez, he was too big and slow to effect the pass rush in the 3-4. He'll never get there in a 4-3. I mean he chased the QBs, but he never caught them.

threetoedpete
02-18-2006, 03:37 PM
Nope. He's not dun, but close. Payne's over the hump also.

Doom Capers
02-18-2006, 03:37 PM
I don't think ole' Gfunk will be with us much longer. Thank god.

Blake
02-18-2006, 04:52 PM
I could see him destroying some tackles in the 4-3.

bigTEXan8
02-18-2006, 05:01 PM
Walker doesn't have the speed to play DE. I would rather have him stay at DT, switching in and out with TJ and Payne.

TEXANS84
02-18-2006, 05:21 PM
I don't think ole' Gfunk will be with us much longer. Thank god.

When G-Funk was in the game, the defense was better...hands down.

Fiddy
02-18-2006, 06:03 PM
I don't think ole' Gfunk will be with us much longer. Thank god. You obviously didnt watch the run defense when Walker when in vs. when Walker was out. Walker is a force in the trenches...

LikeABoss
02-18-2006, 08:24 PM
i would love to get abraham from the jets:drool:

And that's probably gonna cost alot since the Jets just franchised him again.

keyfro
02-18-2006, 11:10 PM
the tough thing is we can't simply get john abraham because then what are we gonna do with babin...at 256lbs abraham isn't a strongside DE either...there is a possibility of walker working at strongside DE but i would have to bet against it...i just don't see him staying with us due to his cap number...he also doesn't have the speed need to rush the passer from that spot...payne is probably also going to be a cap casualty...with all the guys we have at DT we probably have enough depth to last us for a few seasons

TexanFanInCC
02-19-2006, 01:07 AM
Honestly no. He has played SDE before and he could likely play it on rushing downs, but he is past his prime and does not have the speed to get it done. Plus G-Funk may not be with the team after all is said and done.

i gotta agree. last offseason, the front office tried to make a statement by shipping out older players with huge salaries that were deemed expendable. walker managed to stay on the team primarily bc he was getting healthy, but his presence was unnoticed in my eyes. besides, the texans are better off taking their chances with babin and peek as the DE's or drafting another one, and using payne, johnson, and robaire as the DT's. walker = gone this offseason.

run-david-run
02-19-2006, 11:16 AM
Walker is our best DT, hands down. A lot of people seem to dislike him, but Robbair takes plays off, TJ is an unkown quantity and Payne is average. Walker is the best at gettin into the backfield and dissrupting plays. Unfortunately, he is old and costs a lot of money. That seems to be the main argument against him, obviously TJ and Robaire are much younger. I think that if we get rid of any of our DT's it will be Payne, but that also means we wont be using any of the 3-4 sets.

CoachJim
02-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Walker is our best DT, hands down ... I think that if we get rid of any of our DT's it will be Payne, but that also means we wont be using any of the 3-4 sets.

It's just me but if we got rid of one I'd hope it'd be Walker. Payne to me still brings it & more importantly stays off the trainer's table a lil more than GW.

Vinny
02-19-2006, 11:31 AM
It's just me but if we got rid of one I'd hope it'd be Walker. Payne to me still brings it & more importantly stays off the trainer's table a lil more than GW.I don't think Walker liked 2gap duties at all. He got beat up quite a bit by two 300 pounders on every play and couldn't do what he does best most of the time. If he can stay lean (he got too big for a while) I don't think he will get as banged up shooting gaps in a good inside platoon-rotation as opposed to tying up blockers all game and warding off players...that's not his strong suit.

TexanFanInCC
02-19-2006, 12:29 PM
...thus emphasizing the fact that capers is dumb. the 3-4 in houston was a major misallocation of talent. he picked the wrong group of people to play the 3-4.

Hottoddie
02-19-2006, 12:51 PM
With us switching to the 4-3, Walker should benefit greatly. I know he's up there in age, but when he was healthy, he was a force on defense.

Walker has had his greatest success in the NFL when he played in a 4-3 defense. Imo, part of his injury problems have got to be due to the fact that he's been getting double teamed almost constantly in the 3-4. After all, that's what the role of a DT is in the 3-4. They're supposed to tie up the OL, so that the LB's can make the plays. Thus, his body takes a lot of punishment.

Prior to him coming to Houston, & including his 1st year here, he had only missed 3 games in 8 years. In the last 3 years (all with Houston), he's missed 18 games. Is that just age, or the 3-4?

With the switch to the 4-3, that should free him up some. As a result, we should see a much greater performance from Walker this upcoming year.

The Texans have 4 very good DT's in Walker, Payne, Smith, & the youngster (TJ). There are a lot of teams that would love to have that kind of DT talent.

If Babin picks up from where he left off, at the end of last year, & continues to improve on the talent that we were lead to believe he has, that will only help to take some more pressure off of Walker.

At times I'm impressed with Peek & at other times I'm disgusted with him. Now, while I'm a solid trade down & pick D'Brick fan, there's been something that's been bouncing around in my head (no, it's not a loose lugnut) for a while.

What if we traded down & picked Mario Williams? Imagine a DL of Babin, Walker, Payne, & Williams, with Robaire, TJ, & Peek coming off the bench. I do realize that one of Walker, Robaire, or Payne will need to be traded away for cap reasons, but even with that, we'd have one heck of a DL.

The bottom line is, I look for a major improvement from Walker (& even Babin) with the switch to the 4-3.

mancunian
02-19-2006, 02:18 PM
man gary is good but i see him better at dt with smith and tj than at DE

i would love to get abraham from the jets:drool:

Thats the problem we have loads of DT's but no ends.

Payne, TJ, Robaire Smith and Gary Walker would all play DT, as would Ioane and Deloach.

No way all 6 are coming back who's your money on?

HJam72
02-19-2006, 03:02 PM
Thats the problem we have loads of DT's but no ends.

Payne, TJ, Robaire Smith and Gary Walker would all play DT, as would Ioane and Deloach.

No way all 6 are coming back who's your money on?

I say we keep Walker and Smith as starting DTs. After that, whichever of the rest needs to go can go. I would think Payne would be an awfully good backup.

nunusguy
02-19-2006, 03:18 PM
...thus emphasizing the fact that capers is dumb. the 3-4 in houston was a major misallocation of talent. he picked the wrong group of people to play the 3-4.
Yup. If the new DC is correct, its a major indictment of the Capers Group if they staffed a 3-4 scheme with 4-3 personnel.

bdiddy
02-19-2006, 06:09 PM
I will have to look for link, but saw some old link giving a pre-draft evaluation of Jason Babin. Apparently, he played his senior season at 280lbs. but dropped down to the 260-265lbs. for the combine workouts because he was thought to be the best OLB prospect for the 3-4 scheme. Thus, it would seem very reasonable that with an offseason of prep work towards adding weight he could be in the 275-280 range. This would make him more than adequate to play DE.

Dunta_23
02-19-2006, 07:00 PM
I have a hard time believing that TJ wont be a starter this year...probably alongside Robaire in my mind...maybe cut Payne if its feasable...and if Walker can trim up, maybe he can play strongside end...but most likely not...I would like to see Babin pack on some pounds and play end too...no more of that Linebacker business

TEXANS84
02-19-2006, 10:34 PM
FYI, Gary racked up these stats (sack wise) in his years running a 4-3 at Tennessee and Jacksonville:

1996: Oilers/ 5.5 sacks
1997: Titans/ 7.0 sacks
1998: Titans/ 1.0 sacks
1999: Jaguars/ 10.0 sacks
2000: Jaguars/ 5.0 sacks
2001: Jaguars/ 7.5 sacks

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=3184&Submit=Go

In Houston's 3-4, Gary has only gotten 8 sacks in 4 years (6.5 in 2002-pro bowl).

keyfro
02-19-2006, 10:41 PM
i think the most likely scenario is this...remember last season when the jets wanted to sign payne...maybe trade payne to the jets for something like a 3rd or 4th rounder...that way we can have smith and walker starting in the middle with TJ coming in heavy rotation...plus walker is always hurt so it would be just a matter of time before he was starting

infantrycak
02-20-2006, 12:02 AM
I will have to look for link, but saw some old link giving a pre-draft evaluation of Jason Babin. Apparently, he played his senior season at 280lbs. but dropped down to the 260-265lbs. for the combine workouts because he was thought to be the best OLB prospect for the 3-4 scheme. Thus, it would seem very reasonable that with an offseason of prep work towards adding weight he could be in the 275-280 range. This would make him more than adequate to play DE.

All you have to do is take one look at Babin and it is pretty obvious 280 lbs is not a good weight for him. He looks soft at 259 lbs. He did play at 280 lbs in college, but at a noted
(in the draft profiles) loss in speed. He just isn't made to carry that kind of weight without turning into goo.

run-david-run
02-20-2006, 12:05 AM
Payne and Walker are at most 2 years away from reteirment, unless something weird happens, such as they put up massive numbers and have no injury issues. This means that, unless a team feels one of the two will put them over the top, the only way we get rid of them is to cut them and eat the cap penalty, which is quite high for both of them, especially G-Funk.

Ibar_Harry
02-20-2006, 01:25 AM
I don't think Walker liked 2gap duties at all. He got beat up quite a bit by two 300 pounders on every play and couldn't do what he does best most of the time. If he can stay lean (he got too big for a while) I don't think he will get as banged up shooting gaps in a good inside platoon-rotation as opposed to tying up blockers all game and warding off players...that's not his strong suit.

I take you at your word Vinny and it simply is an example of another player who was shafted by the previous coaching staff. You just have to wonder how much damage was done by them with the way they employed their players. We've had a lot of wasted years. However, I'm very optomistic about what I'm hearing now and may be the players will be very responsive to the new approach and over achieve. That would be nice and I think there is a real chance that will happen. I think we have coaches who know what to do with the lines and that could be a big blessing.

johnboy
02-20-2006, 12:33 PM
All you have to do is take one look at Babin and it is pretty obvious 280 lbs is not a good weight for him. He looks soft at 259 lbs. He did play at 280 lbs in college, but at a noted
(in the draft profiles) loss in speed. He just isn't made to carry that kind of weight without turning into goo.

Don't believe everything you hear. Babin never played at 280 lbs. I think he had 15 sacks his last year of College. I think he will be alot better playing DE, he won't have to read the play before rushing. (And he is strong enough and fast enough play DE.) When you have all the reads Peek & Orr & Babin had it a wonder they had 18 sack at all.

Htown34s
02-20-2006, 12:52 PM
I don't think Walker liked 2gap duties at all. He got beat up quite a bit by two 300 pounders on every play and couldn't do what he does best most of the time.

This is a great point Vinny.

infantrycak
02-20-2006, 12:58 PM
Don't believe everything you hear. Babin never played at 280 lbs.

I don't believe everything I hear. No offense, but I'll stick with NFL.com:

Negatives: Timed speed is deceptive, as the player shed 20 pounds before his workout and generally plays in the 280-pound range … Not as explosive when he's at his playing weight …

Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jason_babin)

Coach C.
02-20-2006, 01:01 PM
Babin can weigh in about 265 and still be productive, anything over that and he will be far less explosive. Peek can come in at 260 but I think that is pretty much his max also. Pettway can get to 265-270 after that we need some help though.

johnboy
02-20-2006, 04:05 PM
I don't believe everything I hear. No offense, but I'll stick with NFL.com:



Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jason_babin)

I saw him run down many running backs and qb's in college.(No offense)
and he played full back some time on the goal line his last two years of college.to soft he lifted 225 lbs up 28 times at the combine thats strong enough. the kid can play.

infantrycak
02-20-2006, 07:26 PM
I saw him run down many running backs and qb's in college.(No offense)
and he played full back some time on the goal line his last two years of college.to soft he lifted 225 lbs up 28 times at the combine thats strong enough. the kid can play.

Where do you see anything about Babin can't play in what I posted?--or for that matter anything negative? The only point was his body type is not suited to playing any heavier than he is. Frankly, I would have liked to see what he would have done in an aggressive 3-4 at LOLB--he would have been near the top of my list for players likely to best develop under a coaching change.

texanskan
02-21-2006, 12:10 AM
Gary Walker can still play and still play at a high level he will bring it like a champ this year when he is asked to rush the quarterback if you think he is over the hill you are crazy.

AustinJB
02-21-2006, 12:50 AM
Gary Walker can still play and still play at a high level he will bring it like a champ this year when he is asked to rush the quarterback if you think he is over the hill you are crazy.

I agree w/ you to an extent.

I think that Walker can still be a great player at the DT spot. The man can get to the QB and apply pressure and make plays behind the line. Also, playing at this position, he could rotate w/ TJ and Smith to reduce the risk of injuries.

However, I don't think he'll be as effective as a DE. I think he could stand in a play DE if absolutely necessary, but I think he is better utilized as a DT. I just don't think he has enough outright speed to play DE anymore...maybe earlier in his career, but anymore IMO. But I do still think he could be a force on the Dline if lined up at DT in the 4-3.:twocents: