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Texian
02-17-2006, 11:28 AM
ESPN is reporting the Jets have put the Franchise tag on Abraham. This could be a key element in a trade with the Texans.

More intrique:

Pennington, Jets at odds
<Feb. 17> According to Newsday, Pennington's agent, Tom Condon, has rejected the Jets' proposal to cut the quarterback's 2006 salary from $8 million to $1 million and force him to make up the difference through incentives.
If the Jets decide they can't live with Pennington's current contract, or if the two sides can't reach an agreement by March 3, there's a chance Pennington could be released. Pennington is owed a $12 million bonus on that date, which the Jets do not want to pay.

wags
02-17-2006, 11:32 AM
ESPN is reporting the Jets have put the Franchise tag on Abraham. This could be a key element in a trade with the Texans.

Or a key element in Abraham staying with the Jets.

Coach C.
02-17-2006, 11:35 AM
It could be a key element in the Jets trading down with the Broncos so they can get abraham. They are interested in him to pair with Trevor Pryce since they will have to let go of some of the Cleveland castoffs that made up their D-Line this year.

Dr. Toro
02-17-2006, 11:37 AM
Pennington turned down a contract renegotiation offer, could get cut. They might want one of those qb's... but Cutler would be around at 4.

Napa Auto Parts
02-17-2006, 12:21 PM
If We ended trading with the Jets i would like a swap of 1st rounds and next years second and john abraham. hell reggie bush might still be there. but mario williams or D'foam Ferguson would still be there.:stirpot:

Vinny
02-17-2006, 02:11 PM
It could be a key element in the Jets trading down with the Broncos so they can get abraham. They are interested in him to pair with Trevor Pryce since they will have to let go of some of the Cleveland castoffs that made up their D-Line this year.I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.

ledzeppelin229
02-17-2006, 02:38 PM
I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.

Well, they could drop to 22 since the Broncos own the Redskins pick. Still pretty far though. Maybe something like Abraham and the Jets 3rd for the Broncos 22. Just throwing stuff out there.

cap1
02-17-2006, 02:44 PM
I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.

I could see them trading for a later first round pick strait up for Abraham.

Also, If they have trouble with Pennington and they trade Abraham, I see them trying to pick up more picks not give them up to move up.:twocents:

Capster67
02-17-2006, 03:47 PM
My dream scenario would be trading down w/ the Jets. We get Abraham & then draft D'Brickashaw. The Oilers laid the groundwork for 7 years of consecutive playoff appearances when they draft linemen in the first round (Mike Munchak #1 in 82; Bruce Matthews #1 in 83; Dean Stienkuler #1 in 84; David Williams #1 in 89). To date we haven't drafted a lineman in a round higher than round 2 (Chest Pitts w/ 50th pick in 2002). No wonder our line has been lacking.

adrianshrev
02-17-2006, 04:09 PM
one rumor has the broncos trading up into the top 10 and then trading up again to texans they would mortage a whole lot to do it but they fill they are close to winning a super bowl just need one impact player..um...reggie bush:rolleyes:

HoustonFrog
02-17-2006, 04:16 PM
I'd love to have Abraham but I don't like the scenario. I have also heard that it would be Abraham and that is it basically. So we move down and get him and their pick. Maybe I am dead wrong but I'd rather have the slew of picks. Now if they would take the first pick of the second round for him and we still moved down and had the extras in an unrelated move, I could see it.

Wharton
02-17-2006, 04:19 PM
Right now, the Jets are so deep in the salary cap, I doubt they can muster the finances for a no. 4 pick, let alone a no. 1. This trade scenario seems unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.

keyfro
02-17-2006, 04:20 PM
i could see the jets pulling this off with us...except for the fact that john abraham isn't a strongside DE...he's another weakside...listed at 256lbs...why do the trade when we already have babin and peek...now the jets do have vilma which i would highly consider taking...shaun ellis is more of the type of DE we need...i could see a trade with green bay more likely involving donald driver or bubba franks and their number 5 overall pick for our number 1 overall

Frills
02-17-2006, 04:34 PM
If we trade out of the #1 we need picks more than players with high salary and wear on them.

I don't trust CC and the trades he made in the past were plain ignorant. Course he has made some very bonehead picks as well, but at least we have a fighting chance with the picks versus another Burntnan.

We need someone who won't be garbage 3-4 years from now, when we're actually making the push.

Coach C.
02-17-2006, 04:51 PM
I find it hard to believe the Jets would trade down to the end of the first (29th pick) from the 4th spot AND give up Abraham. It would require a massive package from the Broncos to pull it off.

Vinny the Broncos have two first round picks and have expressed an interest in him. One thing Shanahan has proven in his time in Denver that he will make any move he wants for a player he wants. They have done it consistently. Like the thread said these are just possiblities. I mean Foxsports.com says that he could be part of a trade down deal with us if we swap picks. So you never really know but Denver has the ability and a solid core where they could make this deal.

GP
02-18-2006, 02:40 AM
"My dream scenario would be trading down w/ the Jets. We get Abraham & then draft D'Brickashaw. The Oilers laid the groundwork for 7 years of consecutive playoff appearances when they draft linemen in the first round (Mike Munchak #1 in 82; Bruce Matthews #1 in 83; Dean Stienkuler #1 in 84; David Williams #1 in 89). To date we haven't drafted a lineman in a round higher than round 2 (Chest Pitts w/ 50th pick in 2002). No wonder our line has been lacking." -- capster67

------------------------

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down with the crazy talk.

Have you not gotten the memo? The only way we win is with Bush or Young. We're going that Detroit Browns route where you draft QB or WR or RB every other year until we find the one guy that can take the ball the distance on each play on his own merits.

Who needs quality, franchise o linemen and d linemen? Let those Patriots and Steelers have those guys each year. Suckers!

Dr. Toro
02-18-2006, 02:53 AM
For what it's worth Michael Smith thinks the Jets are drafting Cutler. I don't know if that means they trade down or take him at #4.

hadaad
02-18-2006, 03:20 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down with the crazy talk.

Have you not gotten the memo? The only way we win is with Bush or Young. We're going that Detroit Browns route where you draft QB or WR or RB every other year until we find the one guy that can take the ball the distance on each play on his own merits.

Who needs quality, franchise o linemen and d linemen? Let those Patriots and Steelers have those guys each year. Suckers!


In defense of the Browns, didn't they go crazy with cruddy defensive linemen and also draft a centre in the first round, recently?

BeerFan
02-18-2006, 03:56 AM
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.

HJam72
02-18-2006, 09:13 AM
I have to wait 'till they do something before I know what to be pissed about. It saves me from having to act happy. :)

But we do consistently gripe about everything, so that's something right there.

Jack Bauer
02-18-2006, 09:22 AM
Who needs quality, franchise o linemen and d linemen? Let those Patriots and Steelers have those guys each year. Suckers!

How many of those lineman were top of the draft picks?

BTW, your screen name offends me because I was 10 years old in 1976. This makes me feel old, so I think you need to change it. :jk: Sorry, I know... :offtopic

Capster67
02-18-2006, 09:50 AM
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.

Jack Bauer
02-18-2006, 11:05 AM
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.

Yeah, and Tony Mandarich was the top rated OL player (if not player in general) in the draft also.

I am assuming this post has nothing to do with the one right above it, since the question was posed with regard to the Steelers and the Patriots.

Vinny
02-18-2006, 11:22 AM
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.Who do you want to give back? AJ for Jordan Gross? Carr for Bryant McKinney? Dunta for Shawn Andrews?

HJam72
02-18-2006, 11:39 AM
No, yes, yes. I can only assume those are good linemen. I don't know much about other teams individual players.

Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that Kubiak may be able to do more with less in regards to linemen, so we'll have to wait and see.

HoustonFrog
02-18-2006, 11:42 AM
Munchak was selected 8th in the 82 draft, Matthews was 9th in the 83 draft, and Steinkuler was selected 2nd in the 84 draft. Each of these had something in common with D'Brick - they were the top ranked linemen available. Two of these will be in the Hall of Fame. Considering the highest offensive lineman drafted by the Texans thusfar was #50 in the 2002 draft its been no wonder we've had issues on the line.

Totally different scheme and time. The Broncos starting O-line this year was a 1st rounder(20th pick), 2 4th rounders, a 7th rounder and a rookie FA. Our new O-coordinator said that in Denver they found scrappy, smaller guys who loved to play the game. Those are guys you take with our 2 and 3 picks, not Top 5. Robert Gallery hasn't done a ton for the Raiders and there are other "can't miss" guys like Mandarich. O-lineman aren't guaranteed like any other position. Here is another team that was mentioned..the Patriots. Their line in 2005 was an undrafted FA (Neal), A 7th rounder at one tackle that was practice squad (Gorin), A 5th rounder that was let go by TB and put on NE practice squad (Hochstein), a 1st rounder (#32)(Mankins) and a 3rd rounder (Kaczur). When they had injuries Ashworth played alot and he was an undrafted FA of SF that was signed to the Patriots practice squad and moved up. All in all you can build a line with guys that aren't Top 5 picks and who fit the blocking scheme. It si the coaching. Hopefully we have corrected that.

HJam72
02-18-2006, 11:59 AM
I could swear I've read somebody argue before that we should do like the Patriots and spend high draft picks on linemen. :rolleyes:

We always try to do what the good teams do and it never works. Let's do what the bad teams do and see what happens. :wacko:

Hottoddie
02-18-2006, 12:30 PM
Hmmmm......., since the Jets need some help at DT, we need some help at DE, & we have an abundance of DT's (assuming we're switching to the 4-3), I wonder if they'd be interested in making a trade with us?

I'd love to see them take Walker & a 3rd round pick for Abraham, but that probably won't happen.

However, would you consider trading Robaire Smith, or Payne, for Abraham? :hmmm: Keep in mind, Abraham is going to be making a lot of money, so we have to send out some money to help keep our cap under control.

sax_49
02-18-2006, 12:46 PM
Hmmmm......., since the Jets need some help at DT, we need some help at DE, & we have an abundance of DT's (assuming we're switching to the 4-3), I wonder if they'd be interested in making a trade with us?

I'd love to see them take Walker & a 3rd round pick for Abraham, but that probably won't happen.

However, would you consider trading Robaire Smith, or Payne, for Abraham? :hmmm: Keep in mind, Abraham is going to be making a lot of money, so we have to send out some money to help keep our cap under control.

Walker and a 3rd for Abraham would be a great deal for us. Ya think the Jets would be stupid enough? Smith maybe but I like Payne.

Hottoddie
02-18-2006, 12:59 PM
Walker and a 3rd for Abraham would be a great deal for us. Ya think the Jets would be stupid enough? Smith maybe but I like Payne.

No, but it would be sweet. I think Smith, or Payne, would be the most likely candidates in the trade.

BuffSoldier
02-18-2006, 01:10 PM
I am more intrigued by the Pennington thing. If Pennington is cut and they cannot pick up a top FA QB, then they may be looking to draft a QB and not Bush. This may cause bush to fall to 4 wiht Ferguson going to the Titans at #3. But maybe Norm Chow and the Titans select Bush... let the drama continue.

HJam72
02-18-2006, 01:16 PM
Wow, I never thought that Bush might actually fall into the 4th spot. :confused:

threetoedpete
02-18-2006, 04:33 PM
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.

It's not that we were p.o.'ed that we got a dt last year, We got a DT in the first round who will be a mediocre DL at best. TJ ain't Richard Dent and is never gonna be. Got twenty says he'll never go the pro bowl.

threetoedpete
02-18-2006, 04:36 PM
Hmmmm......., since the Jets need some help at DT, we need some help at DE, & we have an abundance of DT's (assuming we're switching to the 4-3), I wonder if they'd be interested in making a trade with us?

I'd love to see them take Walker & a 3rd round pick for Abraham, but that probably won't happen.

However, would you consider trading Robaire Smith, or Payne, for Abraham? :hmmm: Keep in mind, Abraham is going to be making a lot of money, so we have to send out some money to help keep our cap under control.

CC better put on a mask and wipe the figger prints off the pistol when he's done and hope the DA don't charge him with fraud. After the p-burnt deal, I don't have much faith that this leaky vessel will hold water.

TreWardTxn
02-18-2006, 05:16 PM
Who do you want to give back? AJ for Jordan Gross? Carr for Bryant McKinney? Dunta for Shawn Andrews?

I love Dunta's game, but I could make a case for scenario 2 and 3...

YoungTexanFan
02-19-2006, 12:09 AM
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.

Most people were mad because TJ wasnt worth his pick at the time. He was not even the best DT on his own team. Also, we were thin on LBs, and DJ was available. Most of the homers came out at that time. While I hate UT, I wanted DJ over TJ and still do.

YoungTexanFan
02-19-2006, 12:16 AM
Right now, the Jets are so deep in the salary cap, I doubt they can muster the finances for a no. 4 pick, let alone a no. 1. This trade scenario seems unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.

The jets are pretty far over the cap. Franchising Abe will not help that figure. Pennington will not take a pay cut. I am trying to read between the lines, but I believe the Jets franchised him in order to trade him and create cap space. I think all we would need from a trade down would be Abe and their 2nd round pick. Maybe throw in a second rounder next year. Abe is proven and would play strongside DE. We draft D'brick.

The jets are more likely to pay #1 money as opposed to #4, abe, and pennington.

keyfro
02-19-2006, 12:46 AM
you see the funny thing is there are two tackles in this draft that really could fit this team really well...one is ferguson but the other is daryn colledge of boise state...IMO we trade down for mario williams and pick up colledge in the second...we have our strongside DE and our LT in one draft...and with the right trade we might be able to pick up dquell jackson, adull hodge, or nick mangold as well in the second

Big B Texan Fan
02-19-2006, 01:02 AM
I'd give a 2nd rd'r and Carr for Abe and their 3rd rd'r.

Hottoddie
02-19-2006, 11:50 AM
I'd give a 2nd rd'r and Carr for Abe and their 3rd rd'r.

And, you'd be making a mistake.

YoungTexanFan
02-19-2006, 01:16 PM
And, you'd be making a mistake.

No joke. You would be giving up your QB and a higher pick, in order to get an oft. injured DE and a lower pick?

tulexan
02-19-2006, 01:30 PM
if the jets need a qb or a rb, why would they trade up? at four they are guaranteed to get one of the following qb's cutler, young, leinart. they are also guaranteed to get either lendale white or deangelo williams.

i wouldn't expect them to give up too much.

Caz
02-20-2006, 07:53 PM
How many of those lineman were top of the draft picks?



I can not speak for the Pats but being a Steelers fan 3 of their 5 OL were picked in the first round. The other 2 were 3rd rounders.

Scooter
02-21-2006, 05:55 PM
I can not speak for the Pats but being a Steelers fan 3 of their 5 OL were picked in the first round. The other 2 were 3rd rounders.

jeff hartings - rd 1, pick 23 (detroit)
alan faneca - rd 1, pick 26 (pitt)
marvel smith - rd 2, pick 38 (pitt)
max starks - rd 3, pick 75 (pitt)
kendall simmons - rd 1, pick 30 (pitt)

matt light - rd 2, pick 49 (pats)
stephen neal - undrafted?
logan makins - rd 1, pick 32 (pats)
dan koppen - rd 5, pick 164 (pats)
brandon gorin - rd 7, pick 201 (chargers)

4 first rounders. 7 were first day picks. all but 2 have only played for one team. the patriots entire d-line was drafted in the first round, as well as casey hampton for the steelers.

killeentexan
02-22-2006, 02:29 PM
Yeah, and Tony Mandarich was the top rated OL player (if not player in general) in the draft also.



First of all - we aren't talking about trying to select someone who will be a good linemen for years....it's about selecting someone who can be a franchise left tackle for the next 10 years. I've heard that the accuracy rate when selecting those types of linemen is the highest of any position, but I know without doubt it is higher then when selecting skill position players.

The fact that you had to go back 17 years to find an offensive tackle who was a huge bust when taken in the top few draft picks helps to prove this point......There are so many more skill players drafted in the top 3 who have been monster busts that it isn't funny. As good as Reggie was in college, he is no sure thing in the pro's. The closest thing to a sure thing is to take D'Brick to anchor our OL for years.

Texas
02-22-2006, 03:25 PM
Everyone complained about the DT because we could have took Derrick Brooks

Coach C.
02-22-2006, 03:27 PM
Derrick Johnson is who I think you mean. Also I am looking for a guy like Mario Williams who like Ferguson will anchor our trench for years. Yeah he comes at a higher premium because guys that put the QB on his *** are valuable. You dont pass up a pure pass rusher with freak type size and ability.

HoustonFrog
02-22-2006, 03:30 PM
First of all - we aren't talking about trying to select someone who will be a good linemen for years....it's about selecting someone who can be a franchise left tackle for the next 10 years. I've heard that the accuracy rate when selecting those types of linemen is the highest of any position, but I know without doubt it is higher then when selecting skill position players.

The fact that you had to go back 17 years to find an offensive tackle who was a huge bust when taken in the top few draft picks helps to prove this point......There are so many more skill players drafted in the top 3 who have been monster busts that it isn't funny. As good as Reggie was in college, he is no sure thing in the pro's. The closest thing to a sure thing is to take D'Brick to anchor our OL for years.

What about Robert Gallery and Mike Williams?They were just recently. Look at the Denver roster I posted above and even the NE one. Heck, look at the Steelers one above. 3 1st rounders yet all at the bottom of the draft. We have the #1 pick in the 2nd round and 2 Top 3rd rounders. With the blocking scheme we are implementing, using a pick in the Top 5 on Brick just isn't necessary.

Texas
02-22-2006, 03:30 PM
rofl I put brooks...my bad yes I meant johnson..Thanks for the correction

HoustonFrog
02-22-2006, 03:35 PM
jeff hartings - rd 1, pick 23 (detroit)
alan faneca - rd 1, pick 26 (pitt)
marvel smith - rd 2, pick 38 (pitt)
max starks - rd 3, pick 75 (pitt)
kendall simmons - rd 1, pick 30 (pitt)

matt light - rd 2, pick 49 (pats)
stephen neal - undrafted?
logan makins - rd 1, pick 32 (pats)
dan koppen - rd 5, pick 164 (pats)
brandon gorin - rd 7, pick 201 (chargers)

4 first rounders. 7 were first day picks. all but 2 have only played for one team. the patriots entire d-line was drafted in the first round, as well as casey hampton for the steelers.

I posted this same thing earlier in this thread but showed that NE and Denver didn't need to use top picks. Look at the guys the Steelers took. All bottom of the first. We have the 1st pick of the 2nd. I just don't use a Top 5 pick.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=277856&postcount=26

infantrycak
02-22-2006, 03:37 PM
The fact that you had to go back 17 years to find an offensive tackle who was a huge bust when taken in the top few draft picks helps to prove this point......

A little more recent would be Mike Williams taken #4 overall in 2002 to play LT, now about to be cut by the Bills from his back up role as a LG. Over time LT's have been taken high and have been safer maybe, but during the existence of the Texans the record has been miserable with not one of the top drafted LT prospects actually playing LT at this point--Williams #4 (about to be cut), Jordan Gross #8 (back at RT), Robert Gallery #2 (at RT), Alex Barron #16 (at RT). Not saying any or all of them are bad players or that several wouldn't have improved the quality of the Texans OL, but so far none has been the dominant franchise LT folks advertised.

killeentexan
02-22-2006, 04:39 PM
What about Robert Gallery and Mike Williams?They were just recently. Look at the Denver roster I posted above and even the NE one. Heck, look at the Steelers one above. 3 1st rounders yet all at the bottom of the draft. We have the #1 pick in the 2nd round and 2 Top 3rd rounders. With the blocking scheme we are implementing, using a pick in the Top 5 on Brick just isn't necessary.
Gallery hasn't played long enough to be considered a bust and from the info I have, Williams has gotten mixed reviews. If you want to look at the numbers then I'll copy what I posted on this subject a while ago.....
I have been of the opinion for quite awhile that we should trade down and take Brick to anchor our O-Line for the next 10 years or so. With all the differing opinions here, I figured I would do a little research. I looked at the draft starting in 2003 and went back 10 years (don't have enough info on players drafted in 2004 & 2005 to determine success or failure). I looked for skill players drafted in the top 3 vs OT's drafted in the top 10.

There were 19 skill players (QB, RB, WR) drafted in the top 3 in that 10 year span - in other words they were considered "can't miss" prospects. 9 of them can be considered complete busts - Rick Mirer, Garrison Hearst, Heath Schuler, Ki-Jana Carter, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington & Charles Rogers. 3 are good players but have not reached the level expected as a top 3 pick - Drew Bledsoe, Keyshawn Johnson & David Carr. 7 have acheived superstar status or at least have begun living up to the expectations - Carson Palmer, Andre Johnson, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, Steve McNair & Marshall Faulk. That's 7 out of 19 that have played at the level of a top 3 draft pick. Obviously, drafting a skill player is hit or miss.

On the flip side, looking at the tackles who were selected in the top 10 (I wouldn't want us to drop any lower then 10th) none have been a complete bust, while the list reads like a who's who of all pro/pro bowl tackles. There were 14 tackles selected in the top 10 - Orlando Pace, Jonathen Ogden, Tony Boselli, Willie Anderson, Walter Jones, Jordan Gross, Mike Williams, Bryant McKinnie, Levi Jones, Leonard Davis, Chris Samuels, Kyle Turley, Willie Roaf & Lincoln Kennedy. I have heard in the past that there is a much higher success rate when selecting "big men" with 1st round picks......This info seems to agree with that statement.

Both Reggie Bush and VY have a ton of potential....but then again so did Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Ki-Jana Carter, Rick Mirer etc. As bad as those guys were, remember - they were considered can't miss prospects who were going to turn their respective frachises around.

Trade down and take Brick!
Even if you want to consider Williams a bust, that's 1 bust out of 14 top 10 OT's selected. So in other words 13 out of 14 OT's selected in the top 10 worked out to be deserving picks vs 7 out of 19 skill players selected in the top 3. The odds are staggering in favor of taking a big man! And as far as other teams having success in taking linemen in the later stages of the 1st round (Pittsburgh with 3 late 1st round linemen) we don't have 3 picks in the 1st round to improve our OL...we have 1 pick at the top of the draft where history has shown that taking a big man gives the highest success rate.

killeentexan
02-22-2006, 04:43 PM
A little more recent would be Mike Williams taken #4 overall in 2002 to play LT, now about to be cut by the Bills from his back up role as a LG. Over time LT's have been taken high and have been safer maybe, but during the existence of the Texans the record has been miserable with not one of the top drafted LT prospects actually playing LT at this point--Williams #4 (about to be cut), Jordan Gross #8 (back at RT), Robert Gallery #2 (at RT), Alex Barron #16 (at RT). Not saying any or all of them are bad players or that several wouldn't have improved the quality of the Texans OL, but so far none has been the dominant franchise LT folks advertised.
They've certainly been better then Rick Mirer, Garrison Hearst, Heath Schuler, Ki-Jana Carter, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington & Charles Rogers haven't they? I'm not saying Bush will be a bust, just that he is not the sure thing can't miss lock that everyone is making him out to be. With the fact that I think Davis has shown top 10 RB ability, I think it's pointless to take a chance on Bush when we have such great needs elsewhere and the success rate when taking OT's is so much higher.

HoustonFrog
02-22-2006, 05:05 PM
They've certainly been better then Rick Mirer, Garrison Hearst, Heath Schuler, Ki-Jana Carter, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington & Charles Rogers haven't they? I'm not saying Bush will be a bust, just that he is not the sure thing can't miss lock that everyone is making him out to be. With the fact that I think Davis has shown top 10 RB ability, I think it's pointless to take a chance on Bush when we have such great needs elsewhere and the success rate when taking OT's is so much higher.

But again you have to look at our new scheme and what the team, the Broncos, did with it. The coaches already said they take smaller, scrappy guys who love to play and fit them into the zone type players. No one is saying that Bush or anyone else can't be a bust. However we have 4 picks in the Top 66 and we can accomplish both goals....upgrading at skill while still taking an O-lineman in a deep draft for O-lineman. There is no reason to take the O-lineman there in the Top 5 when you can cover both bases with high picks. Again, look at the lines from the Pats, Denver and the Steelers and when the guys were taken.

HJam72
02-23-2006, 09:55 AM
A lot of the players you guys are talking about (on both sides) are not in their primes yet. A 7 year player is a world away from what he was at say 3 yrs. in many cases. I think a lot of people expect too much too soon.

I do tend to side with the "take a big man" guys here in some respects, but I wouldn't use a #1 pick for it. It's cliche for a reason: games are won in the trenches.

FILO_girl
02-23-2006, 01:46 PM
and wasnt everyone pissed off when we got a DT last year? i see very little consistency on this message board.

I don't think it was that the collective board was pissed over getting TJ, it is more that they were pissed that it wasn't DJ. The shock factor on Cass' choice was huge.

Wait until April 29th and VY or RB is not on our roster, then you will see some pissed posters 'round these parts. :howdy:

HJam72
02-23-2006, 01:56 PM
i see very little consistency on this message board.

Take Bush with the #1 pick. If he doesn't get at least 200 yds. in the first regular season game, trade him for a bag of peanuts. Carr sucks. I miss Capers, Fangio, and especially Pendry. We need to spend big, big, bucks on free agents--especially skills players, like a new QB and somebody to replace AJ. Make absolutely sure that McKinney starts at center and sign Peek and G-Funk for as long as possible. They're both built exactly like what we need in a DE.

What was I saying earlier? Oh, yeah, P-Buch is awesome, but he costs too much. Let him go. We need serious skills players, especially on offense, because your strongest link is all that matters and who cares about trenches anyway? :idonno: