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View Full Version : VY with Denver-style line/Kubiak O


Dr. Toro
02-16-2006, 12:18 AM
It's a fact that Denver has favored versatile linemen with good footwork to man the O-Line and master the zone blocking scheme. They preach agility, technique, and timing over bulk. Kubiak loves to put his QB on the move. How do you think this all affects Vince's potential in such an offense?

Personally, I think the ability for Young's linemen to adjust to his mobility could be huge. A perfectly matched line might enable him to put up 1000 yards rushing. The idea of the zone blocking scheme is to stretch the D and open a cutback lane. The same thing happens with Young rolling out... spies are in pursuit, defense has to pick their poison: Young hitting the corner, throwing down the field, or hitting his man in the middle. IMO, you'd get some huge gashes for a speedy WR to exploit. The more I think about the way Denver does things, the better I think Vince could fit in Houston. I don't know if it's my optimism just gettin the better of me, but I feel like people are overlooking how well Kubiak could utilize a guy like Young.

It's been said that if you draft Young, you have to tailor an offense to his abilities. He's not a prototypical QB, and probably wouldn't be great simply dropping back, making his progressions, and scrambling when everything breaks down. With a weapon like Young you need to be proactive with his abilities, that is, not drop him back and just rely on his athleticism to avoid the rush, but to use his running ability and proficiency in throwing on the move to put pressure on the defense. That's what Denver does. Pressures the defense, forces them into a compromised position, and capitalizes on mistakes. Maybe this is just my hope for VY in Texans gear getting the best of me, making everything turn up roses, but there's a chance Kubiak is intrigued by the possibilities too.

Of course there are those concerned with the durability of a QB on the move a lot. Maybe there's something there, but if safety is the concern I'd rather have a great big athlete in space than have him standing in the pocket all the time, surrounded by D-line men and blitzing linebackers. Vince was relatively conservative running this year, seldom exposing himself to hits.

Texan_X
02-16-2006, 12:27 AM
Preacher on dude.....I agree to all of what you said man.Beautiful,they will ajust the O-line to his ability to run the ball.Get enough time to get out of the pocket buy some time and throw the ball.We have all seen what he does,and he does it well.
Kubiak is a great Offensive Coordinator,I loved the way he changed Jake Plummer around on that offense.He made him more of a confident thrower and good against blitz defense.Vince Young will take his game to a whole new level,I know for a fact that if we keep David Carr in that QB spot and him run out of the pocket like always he will not attempt a pass......
Vince is more of a risk taker and he is confident that he will get the job done.

travfrancis
02-16-2006, 12:30 AM
great post, i'd love to hear some discussion on it, hopefully this thread will stay on topic.

Big B Texan Fan
02-16-2006, 02:17 AM
I remember all too often Plummer doing the Bootleg play and he had nothing but green in front of him. Could you imagine what VY could with that.

jgite
02-16-2006, 02:21 AM
This is exactly what I have been saying to people since Kubes was coming on board. Carr can run that offense, but Vince has the advantage because of his speed and agility. I know that skills challenge on tv was just fun, but it shows you a glimpse and what the guy can do. Rollouts, bootlegs, and waggles. I can see it know:drool: . If someone might counter and say welll you got to wait 2-3 years on VY then the same thing applies to Carr. At least you get a better athlete that you can utilize.

whiskeyrbl
02-16-2006, 12:13 PM
It's a fact that Denver has favored versatile linemen with good footwork to man the O-Line and master the zone blocking scheme. They preach agility, technique, and timing over bulk. Kubiak loves to put his QB on the move. How do you think this all affects Vince's potential in such an offense?

Personally, I think the ability for Young's linemen to adjust to his mobility could be huge. A perfectly matched line might enable him to put up 1000 yards rushing. The idea of the zone blocking scheme is to stretch the D and open a cutback lane. The same thing happens with Young rolling out... spies are in pursuit, defense has to pick their poison: Young hitting the corner, throwing down the field, or hitting his man in the middle. IMO, you'd get some huge gashes for a speedy WR to exploit. The more I think about the way Denver does things, the better I think Vince could fit in Houston. I don't know if it's my optimism just gettin the better of me, but I feel like people are overlooking how well Kubiak could utilize a guy like Young.

It's been said that if you draft Young, you have to tailor an offense to his abilities. He's not a prototypical QB, and probably wouldn't be great simply dropping back, making his progressions, and scrambling when everything breaks down. With a weapon like Young you need to be proactive with his abilities, that is, not drop him back and just rely on his athleticism to avoid the rush, but to use his running ability and proficiency in throwing on the move to put pressure on the defense. That's what Denver does. Pressures the defense, forces them into a compromised position, and capitalizes on mistakes. Maybe this is just my hope for VY in Texans gear getting the best of me, making everything turn up roses, but there's a chance Kubiak is intrigued by the possibilities too.

Of course there are those concerned with the durability of a QB on the move a lot. Maybe there's something there, but if safety is the concern I'd rather have a great big athlete in space than have him standing in the pocket all the time, surrounded by D-line men and blitzing linebackers. Vince was relatively conservative running this year, seldom exposing himself to hits.
Great input on this. Now i am not an advocate of drafting Young and here is why.In your scenario we draft Vince #1 translates to somewhere around $50-60 mil over 4-5 years and we just picked up Carrs option.Now you have all this money tied up in 2 QB's. What do we do the rest of the draft and FA to improve all the other holes on this team?

Frills
02-16-2006, 12:23 PM
You forgetting DC's running ability?

Rather have a decent QB than work on a project for the next 5-10 years

MorKnolle
02-16-2006, 02:10 PM
Denver's blocking scheme and offense are built around mobile QBs. They like to get them out of the pocket and moving (has nothing to do with zone blocking scheme as that relates to running plays) and making plays that way. Their offense is not built around QBs taking off running upfield on their own. Carr is easily a mobile enough QB to run their type of offense, Vince is faster but that does not necessarily mean much more of an advantage for the offense that Denver runs. Vince is not going to run or 1000 yards in an NFL season, Michael Vick came close but he's faster and more elusive than Vince and took off running far too much during those years. He's since learned the danger of running so much and has slowed that part of his game down and is trying to become more of a pocket passer, Vince will end up going thru that same progression but he won't put up 1000 rushing yards in the process. Denver's offense (and presumably what ours will be) is not based on QBs picking up rushing yards, they've been the #1 rushing and total offense over the last 11 years by effectively running the zone blocking scheme, having a stable of RBs that can churn out 1000 yard seasons, and effectively using play actions, misdirections, and other play fakes to move their offense downfield. Even though he can run a little better, Vince Young is not really any better fit for this offense than David Carr or Jake Plummer.

thunderkyss
02-16-2006, 02:41 PM
If that's what we've got planned for Vince.... then I don't want him. I see him shining in a Denver-like system, becuase they do move the pocket. He's not just dropping back, and looking for recievers. I honestly don't see how you can pattern your offensive line after Denver's, then ask your QB to drop back every snap....

But yeah, let's roll Vince out of the pocket, find the open recievers, and hit them for the big gain........ the touchdown, whatever. If everyone's covered, then let him turn upfield, and get us the first down, and then some. Next time, those recievers will be open.