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View Full Version : Interesting Carr comparison posted on the other msg board


travfrancis
02-10-2006, 12:28 PM
this was posted on the other texans' msg board and thought it deserved to be posted here as well:
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5544
There are two statlines below. One is Carr's. The other's? Scroll down....


David Carr: 60 games, 941/1628, 57.8%, 10624 yds, 48 TD, 53 INT, 1040 rush yds, 6 rush TD
MysteryQB: 62 games, 1025/1714, 59.8%, 11131 yds, 64 TD, 67 Int, 567 rush yds, 2 rush TD




















The mystery QB is none other than Tim Couch, the previous expansion QB selected first overall in the draft. One just got an $8M bonus and three years of scheduled base salaries worth another $16.5M, and the other...?

:stirpot:

El Tejano
02-10-2006, 12:35 PM
Didn't that same Tim Couch beat the Texans at the end of year 3 which sent us into a downward spiral this past season?

TMac48
02-10-2006, 12:38 PM
Didn't that same Tim Couch beat the Texans at the end of year 3 which sent us into a downward spiral this past season?
I believe it was Jeff Garcia. Couch had moved on already.

SESupergenius
02-10-2006, 12:40 PM
You could look at plenty of other good QB's, even Hall of Famers with similar stats to spin this argument to your liking.

That was weak. zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

El Tejano
02-10-2006, 12:40 PM
Thanks. Wanted to ask before I said anything.

Texans86
02-10-2006, 12:43 PM
Is that the same Tim Couch that had major surgery on his shoulder before being picked up by Green Bay? Also I read an article on him before last years FA, and he had just finished his full rehab and had just gotten laser eye surgery. Apparently his vision wasn't what it was in college. However I can't really knock the guy. He has like $30 million in the bank from salary and sponsors, and now he just wants a chance to show what he can still do. I have no problem with someone who wants to play simply to play and not to get a paycheck.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 12:46 PM
I actually liked Tim Couch.... I thought he never got a fair chance though... maybe in Greenbay, with the right coaching, and a better team....

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 01:04 PM
I will say this about Carr, he never turned on the fan base. He does have some thick skin given the outside of the gridiron abuse, much of it warranted, he has taken.

Couch was exposed and never recovered.

The comparision betweeen the two ends and begins with Chris Palmer and them each being selected #1 in my opinion.

SESupergenius
02-10-2006, 01:08 PM
I actually liked Tim Couch.... I thought he never got a fair chance though... maybe in Greenbay, with the right coaching, and a better team....and maybe he could recover from the shelacking and injury he sustained while in Cleveland to try to replace a Hall of famer. Nice logic, a little weak, but nice.

Lucky
02-10-2006, 01:13 PM
Didn't that same Tim Couch beat the Texans at the end of year 3 which sent us into a downward spiral this past season?

I believe it was Jeff Garcia. Couch had moved on already.

Kelly Holcomb was the QB for the Browns that Sunday.

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 01:18 PM
Okay he sucks we get it, never heard this one before.

GO LONGHORNS..........:rolleyes:

So you agree that he sucks, but sarcasm on the Go Longhorns part?

Is that a smilie foul or are you just so dern excited that your fingers cant keep up with the swirling euphoria in your head? :)

zeplin
02-10-2006, 01:32 PM
You could look at plenty of other good QB's, even Hall of Famers with similar stats to spin this argument to your liking.

That was weak. zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Amen Brother. If you have a point of view there is bound to be a stat that will support your opinion. Clevland has beat up a few decent QB over the years. I believe they had similiar problems as the Texans. No OL.:homer:

Frills
02-10-2006, 01:47 PM
It took Mack 2 years to dumb down the offense enough for Vince, now he has a new QB to learn his system...so figure another year and a half of figuring out what this QB needs to succeed if he ever does.

So in late Oct of 07, these same horns fans who love Mack will be calling for his head after 2 straight beatdowns delivered by Stoops and Co.

Let the horns fans enjoy this while they can...the honeymoon will be over soon

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 02:23 PM
Dont get mad at me just because your thread was crap.

I have never been mad at you Hulk. Yes you have disappointed me at times, but turn that frown upside down Hulkaroo. You have got a lot to be happy about given your no holds barred defense of our QB and his current extension.

TEXANRED
02-10-2006, 02:27 PM
Does anyone else get tired of reading and responding to the same post over and over and over again?:violin

Here is to a great up coming year.:fans: Good luck to the whole team.:texflag:

Maybe, just maybe, this is our year to beat the Colts!:monkey:

Double Barrel
02-10-2006, 02:30 PM
Terry Bradshaw threw 9 completions in each of his first two Superbowl wins.

(flip side of the coin is Marino and Manning, by far the stat kings. But no rings!)

Stats can be misleading. :howdy:

Honoring Earl 34
02-10-2006, 02:39 PM
I think Bob Greise completed less than Bradshaw in a SB .

Bradshaw won two SBs passing the ball . The Steelers re-invented their offense after the first two SBs .

Bradshaw was benched in favor of Jefferson Street Joe Gilliam . He came back better than ever ..... hmm .

Grid
02-10-2006, 03:27 PM
the whole "compare stats" thing has been overdone. Every situation is different.

Couch his first two years:

Games: 22
Att/Cmp: 614/370
Cmp %: 60%
Yards: 3930
TD/INT: 22/22

Eli Manning

Games: 25
Att/Cmp: 754/389
Cmp %: 51%
Yards: 4805
TD/INT: 30/26

what does this show?...nada.. Manning took his team to the Playoffs with hardly better stats.

Stats dont lie.. but they dont tell the whole truth either.

Dr. Toro
02-10-2006, 03:40 PM
It took Mack 2 years to dumb down the offense enough for Vince, now he has a new QB to learn his system...so figure another year and a half of figuring out what this QB needs to succeed if he ever does.

So in late Oct of 07, these same horns fans who love Mack will be calling for his head after 2 straight beatdowns delivered by Stoops and Co.

Let the horns fans enjoy this while they can...the honeymoon will be over soon

I don't know why Texas football is relevant, but you are right, Texas went to the spread option because Vince is dumb, not because it effectively utilizes his running ability/wins football games. The fact that Texas scrapped a "pro style" offense that underperformed with Chris Simms, Leonard Davis, Mike Williams, Roy Williams, Cedric Benson, Bo Scaife and BJ Johnson is all about Vince Young's intelligence or lack thereof.

Actually, people were calling for Greg Davis' head for years until Vince Young took his game to another level and elevated a skilled but inexperienced offensive unit to the status of a juggernaut. Now Greg Davis is a genius who had to dumb everything down for Vince.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 03:45 PM
I don't know why Texas football is relevant, but you are right, Texas went to the spread option because Vince is dumb, not because it effectively utilizes his running ability/wins football games. The fact that Texas scrapped a "pro style" offense that underperformed with Chris Simms, Leonard Davis, Mike Williams, Roy Williams, Cedric Benson, Bo Scaife and BJ Johnson is all about Vince Young's intelligence or lack thereof.

Actually, people were calling for Greg Davis' head for years until Vince Young took his game to another level and elevated a skilled but inexperienced offensive unit to the status of a juggernaut. Now Greg Davis is a genius who had to dumb everything down for Vince.


I'm squarely in the draft Bush and give Carr a chance with Kubiak but this post is crap.......

Grid
02-10-2006, 03:48 PM
I don't know why Texas football is relevant, but you are right, Texas went to the spread option because Vince is dumb, not because it effectively utilizes his running ability/wins football games. The fact that Texas scrapped a "pro style" offense that underperformed with Chris Simms, Leonard Davis, Mike Williams, Roy Williams, Cedric Benson, Bo Scaife and BJ Johnson is all about Vince Young's intelligence or lack thereof.

Actually, people were calling for Greg Davis' head for years until Vince Young took his game to another level and elevated a skilled but inexperienced offensive unit to the status of a juggernaut. Now Greg Davis is a genius who had to dumb everything down for Vince.

It has been noted by a number of people that Young could not function in a "normall" offense. He just couldnt make it work. They switched to the spread, not because it better utilized his talents, but because that was the ONLY way to utilize his talents. Anything more difficult than that offense was beyond him. Whoever does draft him is gonna have their work cut out for them, getting him up to pro level.

Dr. Toro
02-10-2006, 04:03 PM
I'm squarely in the draft Bush and give Carr a chance with Kubiak but this post is crap.......

What part is crap? About Vince Young being a good runner and not wanting to tie him up in the pocket? About Greg Davis being seen as a bad OC until this year? About it being unfair to decide that Texas went to the spread because VY was dumb when it is apparent that it is the offense BEST suited to his abilities? I was responding to a post by a guy who says VY is a receiver, thats ridiculous. What about Alex Smith? He ran the spread, does that make him dumb and unfit to run an NFL offense.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 04:08 PM
Here are the two sentences with which I take issue.


I don't know why Texas football is relevant, but you are right, Texas went to the spread option because Vince is dumb, not because it effectively utilizes his running ability/wins football games.


Now Greg Davis is a genius who had to dumb everything down for Vince.


If you can't figure out why those two sentences are crap, then maybe it's you that's .... nevermind ...

Dr. Toro
02-10-2006, 04:10 PM
Chill Chuck... that was sarcasm.

AustinJB
02-10-2006, 04:16 PM
It has been noted by a number of people that Young could not function in a "normall" offense. He just couldnt make it work. They switched to the spread, not because it better utilized his talents, but because that was the ONLY way to utilize his talents. Anything more difficult than that offense was beyond him. Whoever does draft him is gonna have their work cut out for them, getting him up to pro level.

I posted this in another thread, but felt like it should be repeated as a response this crap that keeps getting repeated.

First of all, very few college teams run a true pro-style offense. This never seems to be a major issue for NFL teams. Why? B/c that is what the combine, workouts, and interviews are for....to determine if your potential QB is smart enough to LEARN an NFL offense. Is it easier to project what a QB can do if they have been running a pro-style offense in college? Sure, but reality is...that is usually not the case.

Secondly, I believe most would agree that QB is one of the most difficult positions to learn and master...right? VY played in a pro-style offense for only a few games during his redshirt freshman yr (b/c he split time w/ Mock) and about 5 games into his sophomore yr. It stands to reason that the guy was going through growing pains as a young QB just learning a new system.

And Mack didn't have to "dumb it down" for VY; he simply put in an offense that took advantage of his QB's abilities. When you have someone at the QB position who has his athleticism and speed, you take advantage of that. It would be stupid not to. That would be like forcing Bush to ONLY run between the tackles and not let him get the ball in open space....or ONLY throwing screen passes and tosses to Lendale White instead of utilizing his power and straight-ahead running style. Give me a break!

That doesn't mean that VY can not throw; IMO he proved that this past year (and has a chance to shine at the combine for the naysayers.) The offense that Kubes is installing would be a perfect fit for VY. Hand the ball off, play-action pass, bootleg out w/ the option to either pass or run depending on what the coverage does. This type of offense would also allow VY to utilize his abilities. While he can pass when the situation dictates it, you're not limiting him to ONLY be a pocket passer....you're allowing him to use his athleticism.

Since Shanahan and Kubiak run this type of offense that takes advantage of a QB's mobility, does it mean that they "dumbed it down" for Elway, Plummer, and now Carr or VY....NO!