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texan_b
02-09-2006, 07:11 PM
well tommorow is the day David gets his extension. Sports radio 610 is reporting there is a press conference to announce it.

rmartin65
02-09-2006, 07:11 PM
cool. I hope he stays

Wordem
02-09-2006, 07:11 PM
Good. Build him up and then trade him before the draft. Hello VY. Mark it down.

Samer
02-09-2006, 07:12 PM
I would love to keep him

the-wiz
02-09-2006, 07:12 PM
Good. Build him up and then trade him before the draft. Hello VY. Mark it down.

Marked down that we don't trade david carr.

Wordem
02-09-2006, 07:13 PM
Marked down that we don't trade david carr.

Then the Texans are the new Saints. I will be an Oilers fan once again. Bye bye season tickets.

ThaShark316
02-09-2006, 07:13 PM
If the Texans trade DC, it'll be in 2007.

chuckm
02-09-2006, 07:18 PM
Then the Texans are the new Saints. I will be an Oilers fan once again. Bye bye season tickets.


bye bye wordem

Wordem
02-09-2006, 07:20 PM
bye bye wordem

If you want to support a perennial loser, be my guest. There are more people in Houston who agree with me. How'd you like those empty seats at Reliant? Get used to it.

chuckm
02-09-2006, 07:21 PM
If you want to support a pernnial loser, be my guest. There are more people in Houston who agree with me.


they'll be at home watching the Titans on Direct TV like you ....

Wordem
02-09-2006, 07:22 PM
they'll be at home watching the Titans on Direct TV like you ....

Exactly. And Reliant will be empty . . . again.

the-wiz
02-09-2006, 07:22 PM
If you want to support a perennial loser, be my guest. There are more people in Houston who agree with me.

We've been a franchise for 4 years and we're already a perennial loser. You must have been watching the Arizona Cardinals over the years and have gotten confused.

Wordem
02-09-2006, 07:23 PM
We've been a franchise for 4 years and we're already a perennial loser.

Exactly.

Dr. Toro
02-09-2006, 07:26 PM
The three year deal would be silly. Who cares what signal it sends? No need to nurse the guy, he's a man. If they want to keep him, fine. No reason to guarantee more money/years than necessary to keep him. If they wanna tie up 16-24 million in Carr, then they should put a little money in a realistic backup. See how he handles the competition, be ready in case he finally breaks down. Josh McCown is floating out there.

chuckm
02-09-2006, 07:27 PM
Exactly. And Reliant will be empty . . . again.


nah they'll be there watching RB take it to the house

Wordem
02-09-2006, 07:29 PM
nah they'll be there watching RB take it to the house

:ok:

texan_b
02-09-2006, 07:30 PM
:ok:


All this tells me is you never were a true fan in the first place. Have fun watching Steve Mcnair. Reports are he is about to sign a 3 year deal anyway and they may not take vince.

Grid
02-09-2006, 07:34 PM
I hate to get involved in another VY thread.. but a question for the people who will leave if we dont get him.

Lets say someone else takes him..doesnt matter who. And you go become their fan.. what if VY breaks his leg and ends his career before it starts? Im not wishing any ill will on him or anything..but assume that did happen.

Are you going to come crawling back to the Texans? or will you remain teamless? or will you continue to follow the team that chose VY?

Im just trying to understand how someone would quit following their hometown team cause they didnt draft someone that you wanted them to.

texan_b
02-09-2006, 07:37 PM
I hate to get involved in another VY thread.. but a question for the people who will leave if we dont get him.

Lets say someone else takes him..doesnt matter who. And you go become their fan.. what if VY breaks his leg and ends his career before it starts? Im not wishing any ill will on him or anything..but assume that did happen.

Are you going to come crawling back to the Texans? or will you remain teamless? or will you continue to follow the team that chose VY?

Im just trying to understand how someone would quit following their hometown team cause they didnt draft someone that you wanted them to.


Simple answer they would act like they never left. They were never fans in the first place they are the same people who dont stand and cheer at rockets games or who show up late and leave early at astros games.

Carr Bombed
02-09-2006, 07:39 PM
Young isn't even the highest rated QB in the draft. Thats what cracks me up about the Young Fanatics. If yall truly believe we needed another qb, hey we have the #1 pick and should take the highest rated QB who ran a pro offense in college and is much much more pro ready than Young and dominated over his entire college career and had a better career record.

If anybodys loyalty rests with the acquisition of one player then they were truly never really a loyal fan to begin with. :ok:

Doom Capers
02-09-2006, 07:40 PM
I forgot that once a QB is marked "not good" he stays that way forever. I guess they are still waiting on Drew Brees and Jake Plummer to lead their teams to the playoffs. Oh wait.....

the-wiz
02-09-2006, 07:49 PM
Simple answer they would act like they never left. They were never fans in the first place they are the same people who dont stand and cheer at rockets games or who show up late and leave early at astros games.

word.

Dr. Toro
02-09-2006, 07:52 PM
I forgot that once a QB is marked "not good" he stays that way forever. I guess they are still waiting on Drew Brees and Jake Plummer to lead their teams to the playoffs. Oh wait.....

Well Brees went from mediocre to great in his third year starting and put up another great year in his fourth. Plummer showed a consistent ability to make plays/put up yards in Arizona, just made horrible decisions and had a lot of INTs. Gates seems to have solved whatever problems Brees had (or was it a #1 pick nipping at his heels), and Plummer had one major flaw to correct.

Carr is an entirely different situation, he got markedly worse from year 3 to year 4 (his momentum is going the wrong way) and has not looked comfortable in the pocket/held the ball for too long/hasn't shown the ability to "make" plays when things break down. Maybe a TE can fix all his problems, maybe a new coach can. But there have been more bad quarterbacks that stayed bad than had miraculous turnarounds a la Plummer.

Don't get it twisted, David Carr as "franchise QB" is a gamble; one that is now being stretched another 2-3 years and 16-24 million.

TreWardTxn
02-09-2006, 07:55 PM
The three year deal would be silly. Who cares what signal it sends? No need to nurse the guy, he's a man. If they want to keep him, fine. No reason to guarantee more money/years than necessary to keep him. If they wanna tie up 16-24 million in Carr, then they should put a little money in a realistic backup. See how he handles the competition, be ready in case he finally breaks down. Josh McCown is floating out there.

This isn't about feelings, it's about business value. No one will want to trade for Carr if they don't know what they are getting, not just in play on the field, but financially. If he is going to be traded to a team, it would be in their interest to know that he isn't simply going to hit free agency after his contract is up in another year...

travfrancis
02-09-2006, 07:57 PM
Simple answer they would act like they never left. They were never fans in the first place they are the same people who dont stand and cheer at rockets games or who show up late and leave early at astros games.

not true, there are fans who feel really, really strongly about drafting vincent young. this offseason is a turning point of the franchise.

as for myself, if the texans pass on vy i will be devastated, and i really believe it would be a mistake we'd never ever forget. i would certianly be bitter towards the franchise. whether i would switch teams is not something i can predict, we'll see how it plays out. i've never once thought about switching teams in any sports before, and by looking at the teams i follow you can tell that i am certianly not a bandwagoner (rockets, astros, texans, longhorns, and then i also keep tabs on rice and u of h).

DominickDavisFan76
02-09-2006, 07:58 PM
Ok all u ppl that think that David Carr is getting traded, should stop making threads and posting replies, because he isnt going anywhere, He is actually a good QB, he just needs an offensive line, once he gets one expect him in the pro bowl or u might see him leading the texans to their first ever playoff berth. I mean come on, he has shown his trust for the texans, getting sacked nearly 4000 times in his career (Im exaggurating) but u all get my point. He is a tough QB who is getting better as the team gets worse. so once the team gets better he will lead us to a Playoff berth, and u can print that.

Wharton
02-09-2006, 07:59 PM
Well, this is nothing new for Houston sports teams. I have been an Astros fan for years, and until last year, they have been a testament to futility. The Texans are on a collision course with futility as well.

It's going to be a sad, sad day.

On a liter note, anyone want to sell thier PSL?

:fans:

Dr. Toro
02-09-2006, 07:59 PM
This isn't about feelings, it's about business value. No one will want to trade for Carr if they don't know what they are getting, not just in play on the field, but financially. If he is going to be traded to a team, it would be in their interest to know that he isn't simply going to hit free agency after his contract is up in another year...

Agreed it's about business. 3 years might be the right thing if they intend to trade him, but if they're just playing it by ear and hoping he gets better, I think the two year deal makes more sense.

Tulip
02-09-2006, 08:04 PM
Well, it's good to go ahead and get it over with.

I hope I'm proven wrong and that David turns out to be what the Texans anticipated when they drafted him.

texan_b
02-09-2006, 08:05 PM
not true, there are fans who feel really, really strongly about drafting vincent young. this offseason is a turning point of the franchise.

as for myself, if the texans pass on vy i will be devastated, and i really believe it would be a mistake we'd never ever forget. i would certianly be bitter towards the franchise. whether i would switch teams is not something i can predict, we'll see how it plays out. i've never once thought about switching teams in any sports before, and by looking at the teams i follow you can tell that i am certianly not a bandwagoner (rockets, astros, texans, longhorns, and then i also keep tabs on rice and u of h).


I understand trav but to me if you leave a team because they do not do what you want is sad. It reflects bandwagon fan to me thats just my thoughts. See you on tss.com I believe thats where you originated ;)

Kaiser Toro
02-09-2006, 08:08 PM
As Colonel Kurtz said in Apocalypse Now, "this is my dream, this is my nightmare."

I will be more than happy to have Carr as my QB. But it would be very extra special if Mike Sherman were at the podium introducing him with Kubiak. :spy:

DominickDavisFan76
02-09-2006, 08:09 PM
Am I the only one that thinks david carr will be the QB to lead the texans to their first playoff berth?(If the rest of the team gets better)

chuckm
02-09-2006, 08:12 PM
I will be more than happy to have Carr as my QB. But it would be very extra special if Mike Sherman were at the podium introducing him with Kubiak.

agreed ... :redtowel:

Kaiser Toro
02-09-2006, 08:12 PM
On a liter note, anyone want to sell thier PSL?

Got the invoice yesterday and the lil lady paid in full today. :texflag: :jam: :howdy: :headbang:

Sorry to go smilie happy, but I have not been this optimistic about the off season since year one.

HoustonFrog
02-09-2006, 08:45 PM
This disappoints me so much. I hope they are smart and at least do the 2 year and not the 3.

TEXANRED
02-09-2006, 08:53 PM
Then the Texans are the new Saints. I will be an Oilers fan once again. Bye bye season tickets.
See ya!

Texian
02-09-2006, 09:03 PM
Cutler could go before VY.

Trap_Star
02-09-2006, 09:09 PM
they'll be at home watching the Titans on Direct TV like you ....

LOL!!!lol:

tsip
02-09-2006, 09:15 PM
I hate to get involved in another VY thread.. but a question for the people who will leave if we dont get him.

Lets say someone else takes him..doesnt matter who. And you go become their fan.. what if VY breaks his leg and ends his career before it starts? Im not wishing any ill will on him or anything..but assume that did happen.

Are you going to come crawling back to the Texans? or will you remain teamless? or will you continue to follow the team that chose VY?

Im just trying to understand how someone would quit following their hometown team cause they didnt draft someone that you wanted them to.

...c'mon, Grid, you post like crazy--until the Texans went into the dumpster in '05 and were virtually a ghost until thr season was over with...

run-david-run
02-09-2006, 09:17 PM
Guys, once this is signed, there will be no trade! It would cost us his entire signing bonus in dead cap money. The only way this is remotley possible is if the Jets franchise Abraham then trade him to us, alnog with the #4 and prob their second and third roundsfor DC and the #1, eating his cap money. I guess this would in a way negate some of the cap hit because we dont have to pay Abraham, but even DC would make more money as he is a QB. They better be damn sure VY could do the job, yet most people agree he would sit for a year. Who's going to be our QB then?

Kaiser Toro
02-09-2006, 09:28 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3649092.html

Sportsfan
02-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Good news. Now maybe the VY chatter will die down a little, i'm about tired of that BS. Agree or not, respect and support the team in whichever direction they go.

damn, your quick that article is dated like 5 min. ago. LOL

aj.
02-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Berman just said it will be the 3 year deal.

He also said that Sherman will sign...soon

texarg
02-09-2006, 09:37 PM
Am I the only one that thinks david carr will be the QB to lead the texans to their first playoff berth?(If the rest of the team gets better)
agree

LORK 88
02-09-2006, 09:41 PM
Finally!! Now can we quit with this Vince Young fantasy??

Hervoyel
02-09-2006, 09:45 PM
Good. Build him up and then trade him before the draft. Hello VY. Mark it down.


As what? Your fantasy? Vince Young is going elsewhere and this place is getting back to normal once his fanclub follows him to his new teams board.

jerek
02-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Wow, that was quick. There goes another leg, chopped out from underneath the "conspiracy to smokescreen the entire league and draft Vince" argument. The funny thing is someone got verbose on us not re-signing Carr only earlier today (Big B, was that you?)

Getting a little shaky now?

Grid
02-09-2006, 10:01 PM
Tsip you keep bringing up my lack of posts during the season..but every time i explain it to you, you shut up for a week or so till you can bring it up again.

Im not explaining it again. Get over it.. I was here..I never abandoned the team.. im not a fairweather fan..i read the board every day... i already explained my whole freakin daily routine during the season in another thread. Im tired of your bull**** accusations.

get...over...it.

Carr Bombed
02-09-2006, 10:13 PM
Tsip you keep bringing up my lack of posts during the season..but every time i explain it to you, you shut up for a week or so till you can bring it up again.

Im not explaining it again. Get over it.. I was here..I never abandoned the team.. im not a fairweather fan..i read the board every day... i already explained my whole freakin daily routine during the season in another thread. Im tired of your bull**** accusations.

get...over...it. Don't worry about it Grid you have over a year and 2500+ posts on him.

LCOOL
02-09-2006, 10:21 PM
Don't worry about it Grid you have over a year and 2500+ posts on him.
VY will be a Titan just watch! So Carr will be staying lets just see how he does in his fifth year, on Mike and Mike this morning they both said they think carr will flourish next season, we shall see.

LoneStarState
02-09-2006, 10:27 PM
Give Carr a chance behind a line that is properly coached. A line with so-so players with proper coaching could do wonders.

edo783
02-09-2006, 10:27 PM
Tsip you keep bringing up my lack of posts during the season..but every time i explain it to you, you shut up for a week or so till you can bring it up again.

Im not explaining it again. Get over it.. I was here..I never abandoned the team.. im not a fairweather fan..i read the board every day... i already explained my whole freakin daily routine during the season in another thread. Im tired of your bull**** accusations.

get...over...it.

Cool your blood presure Grid. Just put the guy on ignore. I have several duffas's there. Works wonders. :ok:

tex
02-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Then the Texans are the new Saints. I will be an Oilers fan once again. Bye bye season tickets.
I'm sure someone will enjoy your seats:yahoo:

FirstTexansFan
02-09-2006, 10:37 PM
He has no seats, empty threats from another wannabe fan. I'm thinking I should begin making threats....lets see, if we draft VY, I'm gonna paint my house Burnt Orange...don't laugh, I could be YOUR neighbor :)

HoustonFrog
02-09-2006, 10:38 PM
Berman just said it will be the 3 year deal.

He also said that Sherman will sign...soon

Well fine if we have to keep him but can I argue the merits of 2 years?Even Palillo said today that it would be dumb for them to go three years and I trust his opinion more than anyone in this town. Annoying but smart. You could go 2 and if there are still questions he is gone and if he is a huge success then you don't care about paying him like a franchise QB.

Also some of you extremist need to step back from the computer and stop hating so much. VY didn't sleep with your wife. I want Bush and don't like Carr and I didn't go to UT. There are many of us with reasonable views on the team who feel you don't have to sit there and be up McNair's tail. We are 2-14 for a reason.

tex
02-09-2006, 10:38 PM
If you want to support a perennial loser, be my guest. There are more people in Houston who agree with me. How'd you like those empty seats at Reliant? Get used to it.
I don't think VY is going to change that all by himself:brickwall

Carr Bombed
02-09-2006, 10:38 PM
VY will be a Titan just watch! So Carr will be staying lets just see how he does in his fifth year, on Mike and Mike this morning they both said they think carr will flourish next season, we shall see. I'm not a draft Young guy so.....ok. I hope the best for Carr.

tex
02-09-2006, 10:50 PM
:ok:
slow down with the vocabulary we're just simple Texans fans

texman8
02-09-2006, 11:00 PM
http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3649092.html

This is link on Carr's extension. Also,it says Sherman is to join staff; just need to work on contract.

Hookem Horns
02-09-2006, 11:05 PM
There was no question from the front office, just your guys questions.

The same front office that decided to keep Casserly around?

TexanSam
02-09-2006, 11:17 PM
I'm glad we only have had one poster (Wordem) who has said he won't be a Texans fan anymore. Anyone that believes that the Texans will be a perennial loser after only 4 years of existence, well, you have the right to your opinion, but quite frankly, it's a dumb one. Saying the Texans will be a perennial loser because they won't draft Young is just plain stupid. Last I saw, Young hadn't done anything in the NFL. For every Warren Moon, Steve Young and John Elway there's a Cade McCown, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leaf. David Carr is neither of the six. He probably won't be a lights out Hall of Fame type QB, but I sure don't see anything in him that makes me invision Ryan Leaf on the field. We don't even know how Vince Young will turn out in the pros. Because he was a great college QB doesn't mean he'll pan out in the pros. For those of you (if there are any) who say they won't be Texans fans because VY won't be chosen, then good riddance, we don't need fans like you.

AustinJB
02-09-2006, 11:28 PM
For those of you (if there are any) who say they won't be Texans fans because VY won't be chosen, then good riddance, we don't need fans like you.

I wonder if Bob McNair feels the same?

Just playing devils advocate.

While I think we should draft VY, I'm not one of the ones that will abandon the team if we don't. Will I be disappointed? Yes...but I'm an old Oilers fan and have been hurt and disappointed by my team too many times in too many ways to give up on them. However, I don't want to have to experience those feelings about my current team. We'll see. I sure haven't been too encouraged w/ what I've seen so far, but I do think that things are looking up w/ our new coaching staff and potential draft picks.

Big B Texan Fan
02-09-2006, 11:37 PM
Wow, that was quick. There goes another leg, chopped out from underneath the "conspiracy to smokescreen the entire league and draft Vince" argument. The funny thing is someone got verbose on us not re-signing Carr only earlier today (Big B, was that you?)

Getting a little shaky now?
It's kinda like lighting a cig while waiting for food to arrive only to find out that as soon as the first puff gets taken your food arrives.

And of course they were gonna pick it up, i mentioned in that post that i expected them too. Just curious as to why they don't offer him a new contract worth more $$ if they're that sold on him while passing on 2 if not 3 of the best QB prospects in a while in the draft while owning the #1 pick. Maybe they plan on offering him a new contract during mid-season of this next season if they somehow wind up like 6-2 at the halfway point n the season and carr has alot to do with it. Let's just hope that can happen.

If this team is not even considerring VY/Leinert/D'Brick/etc... and are just dead-set on Bush, then that would lead me to believe that they were losing games on purpose there towards the end. That would be something we'd never know, just something left up to the imagination. If were true though, it'd be very Pete Rose-esque/Black Sox-esque. They better hope it never leaks out if it is true, although I doubt it is.

How am I supposed to believe this organization is thinking with their football caps on with this decision when damn near every other draft decision made has fizzled on them like a wet bottle rocket. Examples:
*Carr -over peppers??????????
*Gaffney -was a redshirt sophomore when we drafted him, are you kidding me, that was the best we could do with our 2nd overall pick in team history?
*Pitts -(small school product) had never played grade school ball and we draft him to play guard with our 3rd overall pick in team history. I thought guards were able to be found in later rounds. Pitts was a 10yd penalty machine in his 1st season and was also mostly responsible for alot ofthe sax carr suffered in seaon 1. He has shaped up though to be a servicable OT
*Hollings -Supp draft with a 2nd rd' rwe got from the raiders that wound up being a top 3 pick in the 2nd rd
*Joppru - was there a pre-existing injury we didn't investigate enough. With the amount of background work done on P-Buch (or lack thereof) this leads me to believe within a shadow of a doubt that there very could've been something but casserly failed to unearth it.
*Wand -(small school product) was a project. Why do we want projects with a 3rd rd pick. Especially in our situation of building this team from scratch.
*Peek -another small scool guy (not so small though) brought in to play a position that he never has had played before in college? Plus he's as dumb as a box of dirty rox. Car stolen with his playbook in it. Suspended for a game or 2? But we were sold on him and passed on Merriman and DJ Johnson
*Ragone -when quized about this pick Cass defended himself by saying that Gibbs taught him that you can never have enough QB's. He did unearth DD in the next rd and said that you can always find good quality back in the later rd's. Now it seems as though he's gonna do a 360 against that theory. The contradictions are pouring down like DE's on a QB named Carr.
*Babin -we gave up our 2nd, 3rd, 4th, an swapped spots in the 5th with the Titans of all teams for this guy from a small school to play a position he had not played in college. What's up with projects. We need guys that can play. What exactly is Websters' definition of "Bamboozled". The swapping of the 5th rd'rs was horrible cuz they were a playoff team with late round pix and we were top 12 each round. I know it's not Babins' fault but it is our problem though. We did get Earl with that late 5th though but that was also a roll of the dice since he had a broken leg and missed most of his senior season. The guy can't stay out of fights though.
*TJ -we already had too many DT's, why would we stay thin at a position where we just lost a starter and a team leading tackler (LB) and stockpile on a position where were heavy as well as move down. Did we think that after a 7-9 season that were a player or 2 away. The answer was yes cuz.....
*P-Buch -we gave up a 2nd and the 3rd we got for the Henson trade that we stole from the Cowboys.

No team has made that many mistakes in this short of time while building/rebuilding in a long time.
So how am I to believe and feel comfortable that the team will make the right decision with the draft much less any other decision. My kids could do better.

Too many poor decisions, my patience is weaing thin.

HoustonFan
02-09-2006, 11:37 PM
To any and all that would kick the Texans to the curb b/c they pick up Carr's option and not draft VY... PEEEEEEEEEEEEAACE!!!!! Y'all were never fans anyway.

The season hasn't even started yet.

Napa Auto Parts
02-09-2006, 11:41 PM
I Wont Quit being a fan i love the texans even if they do make the second biggest mistake in franchise history. i was with out football for too long to give up on my team but it is sad that some players get a free pass for mediocre play at best.

OH and the biggest mistake is related with the second we could of had J. Peppers.

houstonhurricane
02-09-2006, 11:45 PM
Those of you that are fuming at the news need to recognize that the team is doing what they feel is best for the future - like it or not. I am a proponent of grabbing Bush with the first pick. However, if they decide to trade down, I will live with that decision and keep the faith in Kubiak.

By the way, I just picked up two additional PSL's this year and would love it if some of you so called "fans" wanted to drop yours in favor of Direct TV...

zeplin
02-10-2006, 12:32 AM
Well that should stop the debate on should we trade him or not. I think our new head coach was happy to have him already here. We should stop all the negative crap on this board and back our QB. A house divided will not stand.

Now lets go get a OL.

D'Brickshaw Ferguson will be a good start.

Fighting Blue Hen
02-10-2006, 12:35 AM
Last I saw, Young hadn't done anything in the NFL.

Neither has Carr, but hey, lets not get confused with facts.

beerlover
02-10-2006, 12:37 AM
this does'nt settle jack **** just thickens the plot, what else are the Texans going to do say they made a mistake when they took David Carr 1st overall in the 2002 NFL draft? Does that help them develop his value to the team or trade potential?

here is an interesting comment from prominent sports agent Leigh Steinberg who represents Southern California QB Matt Leinart, expected to be one of the first three players selected this year, said he believes no team, especially Houston, which holds the top pick, will tip its hand until the last week in April, possibly going right up to the morning of the draft. According to Steinberg, who was quoted in an article in the Austin American Statesman as saying ďIt's in Houston's interest to play it out to the very last second, They will maximize their options."

Fighting Blue Hen
02-10-2006, 12:41 AM
Go Longhorns.....:rolleyes:
He must have done something right to be with the Washington Redskins for 30years. I believe they won a couple Super Bowls as well and Charlie cant go to the bathroom any more without Mr.McNairs say so.
But most important Go Longhorns.......:rolleyes:

?? Go cheer for your Longhorns somewhere else. BTW, what does that have to do with Casserly. I don't think he went to UT.

BTW, if you're pimping Casserly than your credibility has just gone out the window. Casserly wasn't responsible for any of their Super Bowls. He inherited one Super Bowl and when Gibbs left, his true colors came out in the form of brilliant #1 draft picks like Heath Schuler and Desmond Howard. His draft record at Washington was brutal, even worse than it has been here.

zeplin
02-10-2006, 12:41 AM
this does'nt settle jack **** just thickens the plot, what else are the Texans going to do say they made a mistake when they took David Carr 1st overall in the 2002 NFL draft? Does that help them develop his value to the team or trade potential?

here is an interesting comment from prominent sports agent Leigh Steinberg who represents Southern California QB Matt Leinart, expected to be one of the first three players selected this year, said he believes no team, especially Houston, which holds the top pick, will tip its hand until the last week in April, possibly going right up to the morning of the draft. According to Steinberg, who was quoted in an article in the Austin American Statesman as saying “It's in Houston's interest to play it out to the very last second, They will maximize their options."

Well they got rid of capers. Why don't we find out if it is a coaching issue befor we burn down the entire house.
Yes it is to our advantage to keep them guessing on what our plans are for the draft.:homer:

Nighthawk
02-10-2006, 01:45 AM
From McClains column:

"Carrís extension calls for the $8 million bonus and base salaries of $5.25 million this year, $5.5 million in 2007 and $6 million in 2008. As the top pick in the 2002 draft, Carr already has made $22 million over his first four years, not counting incentive bonuses. Barring a career-ending injury and a restructuring for salary-cap purposes, Carr will earn $46.75 million over the first seven years of his career."

BF mine. Am I the only one who thinks this is criminal?

ledzeppelin229
02-10-2006, 01:48 AM
Blame Casserly. I guess we should arrest all those other QBs that made a lot of money and didn't produce. Or we could give Carr another chance with Kubiak, afterall it isn't my money that he's making.

tex
02-10-2006, 01:50 AM
Neither has Carr, but hey, lets not get confused with facts.
VY had a Oline,David didn't

Nighthawk
02-10-2006, 01:51 AM
They have to sign Carr whatever they intend to do, though I don't think the front office is bright enough, or tough enough, to do what needs doing. Instead they'll sign him and keep him at least a couple years hoping that he coaches up to mediocre from his present slot as a total loss farm.

Given the kind of football that I expect Kubiak wants to play, Carr could be fine.

tex
02-10-2006, 02:04 AM
Blame Casserly. I guess we should arrest all those other QBs that made a lot of money and didn't produce. Or we could give Carr another chance with Kubiak, afterall it isn't my money that he's making.
They all act like it's thier money though.

AustinJB
02-10-2006, 02:35 AM
They all act like it's thier money though.

No, I think it's more the idea that if our owner is going to spend that much money on someone....that someone should, at the very least, produce. If they don't produce, get rid of them and use that money on someone that is worth it.:crying:

Frills
02-10-2006, 04:10 AM
The previous coaching staff and the O-line that collected their checks are the ones guilty of robbery...not Carr

SESupergenius
02-10-2006, 06:15 AM
I'm glad that we are clearing that up and not letting it linger any longer, I was starting to think that more major changes were on the way. Face it Young fans, this was the nail in you coffin, no need to whine anymore, we are not drafting him. So, see ya, take care and go log on to the 3 other NFL teams' message boards that are in the hunt for him and state your case for him there. It didn't work here.

Now that that is over, I hope we concentrate on the offensive line and defense as a whole.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 06:52 AM
I'm glad that we are clearing that up and not letting it linger any longer, I was starting to think that more major changes were on the way. Face it Young fans, this was the nail in you coffin, no need to whine anymore, we are not drafting him. So, see ya, take care and go log on to the 3 other NFL teams' message boards that are in the hunt for him and state your case for him there. It didn't work here.

Now that that is over, I hope we concentrate on the offensive line and defense as a whole.

What are you talking about?? Everything is going exactly as I planned. Kubiak said he's going to give David every opportunity to be successful in the NFL. Personally, I'd have picked up the option for two years, but the three year thing gives us a bit more leverage to trade him for the 2008 season.

Personally, I think what they do with Wells' contract is more telling about what they plan to do in the draft that David's........ Vince or no Vince, we need a tackling dummy until the Oline starts gel'n. David's Resume speaks for itself....

aj.
02-10-2006, 06:54 AM
Face it Young fans, this was the nail in you coffin, no need to whine anymore, we are not drafting him. So, see ya, take care and go log on to the 3 other NFL teams' message boards that are in the hunt for him and state your case for him there. It didn't work here.
.

I wanted Young - not a Longhorns fan so save the cute remarks Hulk - but I'm a Texans fan first so I'm not going anywhere. I'll live with their decision because I really have no choice. Carr is getting a second chance and hopefully he can turn his career around. If he can, that's great for all of us. If he can't, this will be the worst decision made by management in the formative years of the organization. I hope he succeeds - for all of our sake. Right or wrong, fans will not have a lot of patience with him this season and he will need to turn it around quickly.

Carr Bombed
02-10-2006, 07:00 AM
Right or wrong, fans will not have a lot of patience with him this season and he will need to turn it around quickly. That is right, I've been thinking the same thing-How patient are fans at Reliant going to be? I think they'll give him and this team about 6 weeks before the boo birds come out again.

Marcus
02-10-2006, 07:03 AM
I'm glad that we are clearing that up and not letting it linger any longer, I was starting to think that more major changes were on the way. Face it Young fans, this was the nail in you coffin, no need to whine anymore, we are not drafting him. So, see ya, take care and go log on to the 3 other NFL teams' message boards that are in the hunt for him and state your case for him there. It didn't work here.

Actually SES, as much as I'd love to agree with you, I'd have to go with beerlover on this one . . . it just thickens the plot. The Drew Breez/Phillip Rivers situation in SD makes me wonder, although not that much. Extending Carr for the 3 years, on one hand, makes him "untradeable" cap-wise, but on the other hand, maximizes his trade "value".

Other than that, I believe the FO has to look at this Carr/Bush/VY thing in only one light. They either add a running back, or switch quarterbacks. Even if they were to concede that a Vince Young, who has yet to play a down in the NFL, is indeed better than a 4-year David Carr, the difference between the two certainly would not be worth the cost of giving up Reggie Bush.

BuffSoldier
02-10-2006, 07:06 AM
The previous coaching staff and the O-line that collected their checks are the ones guilty of robbery...not Carr

As much as he gets hit, the offensive line should pay his salary, and for insurance.

nunusguy
02-10-2006, 07:11 AM
BF mine. Am I the only one who thinks this is criminal?
I dunno....but I know Gary Kubiak doesn't think its criminal. Do you consider
yourself a better authority on NFL QBs than the new HC ? And if you are as dissatisfied about the endorsement by Kubiak of one of the teams key players
as you claim you are, you really ought to pack your bags up and go support
another team. I know I would.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 07:12 AM
this article on ESPN is a bit more informative and objective than John "I Luv VY" McClain's ...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2325442

TEXANRED
02-10-2006, 07:15 AM
Isnt there already a thread for this under "Carr gets extension today."

This isnt going to be one of those, 10 threads for the same topic is it? :spy:

Marcus
02-10-2006, 07:21 AM
this article on ESPN is a bit more informative and objective than John "I Luv VY" McClain's ...

Former NFL head coach Dan Reeves, who served as a consultant to Texans owner Bob McNair, recommended keeping Carr, the top overall choice in the 2002 draft. First-year head coach Gary Kubiak, who has a strong reputation around the league for developing quarterbacks and whose presence could enhance Carr's performance, apparently gave him a strong endorsement, too.

At one point during the season, Houston officials considered the possibility of exercising the two-year option. The Texans also reviewed which NFL franchises might need a quarterback of starting caliber in the next few years, in the event they decided to trade Carr.

They have never come close, however, to putting Carr on the market.

:wow:

nunusguy
02-10-2006, 07:24 AM
"Former NFL head coach Dan Reeves, who served as a consultant to Texans owner Bob McNair, recommended keeping Carr, the top overall choice in the 2002 draft. First-year head coach Gary Kubiak, who has a strong reputation around the league for developing quarterbacks and whose presence could enhance Carr's performance, apparently gave him a strong endorsement, too."
************************************************** ****
Thanks for the ESPN link ChuckM, the story is much more accurate without the McClain/Chronicle/610 Spin machine.

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 07:27 AM
Signing DC is nice and all, but the best news by far is Sherman coming aboard.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 07:29 AM
Signing DC is nice and all, but the best news by far is Sherman coming aboard.


Kaiser ... don't you ever sleep???? hey wait I'm here too :loser

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 07:31 AM
Kaiser ... don't you ever sleep???? hey wait I'm here too :loser

It wouldn't be a Carr thread, unless I had something to poo poo on now would it? :) It's never too early for the gas can.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 07:32 AM
Actually SES, as much as I'd love to agree with you, I'd have to go with beerlover on this one . . . it just thickens the plot. The Drew Breez/Phillip Rivers situation in SD makes me wonder, although not that much. Extending Carr for the 3 years, on one hand, makes him "untradeable" cap-wise, but on the other hand, maximizes his trade "value".

Other than that, I believe the FO has to look at this Carr/Bush/VY thing in only one light. They either add a running back, or switch quarterbacks. Even if they were to concede that a Vince Young, who has yet to play a down in the NFL, is indeed better than a 4-year David Carr, the difference between the two certainly would not be worth the cost of giving up Reggie Bush.


it makes him untradable this year. spread that bonus over 4 years, 2005, 2006, 2007, & 2008. we're looking at a cap hit of $2million this year. After this year, $4million dollars is gone, so to trade him after 2006 will cost us $4million to the cap..... after 2007, it'll hit us only $2million..... trading him after 2006 or 2007 is now a possibility. It's up to him now, to get his stock up, so we can get draft picks, or players(my preference) worth a $4million cap hit, that we can sign for much less.

CaptainPatriot
02-10-2006, 07:37 AM
Good. Build him up and then trade him before the draft. Hello VY. Mark it down.




:redtowel:

Marcus
02-10-2006, 07:37 AM
"Former NFL head coach Dan Reeves, who served as a consultant to Texans owner Bob McNair, recommended keeping Carr, the top overall choice in the 2002 draft. First-year head coach Gary Kubiak, who has a strong reputation around the league for developing quarterbacks and whose presence could enhance Carr's performance, apparently gave him a strong endorsement, too."
************************************************** ****
Thanks for the ESPN link ChuckM, the story is much more accurate without the McClain/Chronicle/610 Spin machine.

God dog, nunusguy, that's friggen perfect! If you created a thread called the "The McClain/Chronicle/610 Spin Machine", boy, I go nuts in that one.:)

TEXANRED
02-10-2006, 07:38 AM
Signing DC is nice and all, but the best news by far is Sherman coming aboard.
Is Sherman coming to Houston? I haven't heard that yet. Good if he does.

TheOgre
02-10-2006, 07:41 AM
They said he is on 610 am this morning.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 07:42 AM
They said he'll be at work monday, even though they haven't worked out a contract.

HoustonFrog
02-10-2006, 07:46 AM
There was no question from the front office, just your guys questions.

Hulk, again, in your overly aggressive manner you missed the whole point. I SAID "You could go 2 and IF there are STILL questions.." you can move on. It is a simple business move and nothing to do with drafting VY. If you'd read posts long enough you'd know I'm for taking Bush. What made you so angry?

5genTexan
02-10-2006, 07:56 AM
If you want to support a perennial loser, be my guest. There are more people in Houston who agree with me. How'd you like those empty seats at Reliant? Get used to it.
I don't think so. Ya'know, I don't really post on here all that much, but I'm just about fed up with the whiners. If y'all want to sell your season tickets, SELL THEM!! Good riddance, see you later. Just quit threatening that you're going to do it and do it. I know plenty of people ready to buy them.

geofb
02-10-2006, 08:06 AM
Hopefully once the Carr extension is complete, most of the VY groupies will fade away.

CaptainPatriot
02-10-2006, 08:14 AM
Young isn't even the highest rated QB in the draft. Thats what cracks me up about the Young Fanatics. If yall truly believe we needed another qb, hey we have the #1 pick and should take the highest rated QB who ran a pro offense in college and is much much more pro ready than Young and dominated over his entire college career and had a better career record.

If anybodys loyalty rests with the acquisition of one player then they were truly never really a loyal fan to begin with. :ok:



Humm, Neither was Montana (3rd round) or Brady (6th Round). Go back and look at Montana`s Bowl Games and look at VY Bowl Games.


http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016306.html


Think there is a similarity to their winning

jaayteetx
02-10-2006, 08:15 AM
Kinda wish this was like "Survivor" and we could all just vote off everybody that threatens to leave the team, for whatever reasons! Like its been said before, if your willing to bail out that easy, you must not have been a true fan in the first place. Good riddings to all of you! Go Texans!

infantrycak
02-10-2006, 08:16 AM
I wanted Young - not a Longhorns fan so save the cute remarks Hulk - but I'm a Texans fan first so I'm not going anywhere. I'll live with their decision because I really have no choice. Carr is getting a second chance and hopefully he can turn his career around. If he can, that's great for all of us. If he can't, this will be the worst decision made by management in the formative years of the organization. I hope he succeeds - for all of our sake. Right or wrong, fans will not have a lot of patience with him this season and he will need to turn it around quickly.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. Young and Bush both looked intriguing but so does trading down. Basically, I hope they made/make the right choice.

TheOgre
02-10-2006, 08:23 AM
Young and Bush both looked intriguing but so does trading down. Basically, I hope they made/make the right choice.

Might be the best quote in this thread.

Vinny
02-10-2006, 08:23 AM
Hulk, again, in your overly aggressive manner you missed the whole point. I SAID "You could go 2 and IF there are STILL questions.." you can move on. It is a simple business move and nothing to do with drafting VY. If you'd read posts long enough you'd know I'm for taking Bush. What made you so angry?If Carr was traded we would not see Hulk here much more....he is a Carr fan first, Texans fan by proxy. We have a ton of Fresno fans who would not be here if Carr was not here. They are Texans fans too....but you have to have some perspective when you read some of these guys posts.

Meisterman
02-10-2006, 08:29 AM
8 million dollar extension for this YUGO carr is laughable. Nice to see "Lame Duck" GM Casserly is sticking by his man.

If McNair was smart....he'd lock Casserly out of the war room on Draft day.


My God....are the underachieving Oilers still in town?

Hervoyel
02-10-2006, 08:43 AM
Neither has Carr, but hey, lets not get confused with facts.

I disagree with that. Prior to last season Carr was the QB of a franchise that was improving every single year. 4, 5 , and then 7 wins had everyone happy and 90% of the posters here who are upset that we're not trading in our current QB for Vince "Captain Amazing" Young were nowhere to be seen.

One season where the entire team suffers a setback and all of a sudden he's crap that we need to kick to the curb? I disagree.

Vinny
02-10-2006, 08:45 AM
90% of the posters here who are upset that we're not trading in our current QB for Vince "Captain Amazing" Young were nowhere to be seen. :BananaWav 10%'er at your service Herv.

Marcus
02-10-2006, 08:46 AM
8 million dollar extension for this YUGO carr is laughable. Nice to see "Lame Duck" GM Casserly is sticking by his man.

Casserly had nothing to do with it. It was Reeves who recommended to McNair to keep Carr.

Coach C.
02-10-2006, 08:48 AM
Herv this is interesting to see from you. You are one of the guys that sees Carr for what he is a solid QB, who has some faults that have to be worked on. Good to see you back on, just wanted to add in the 7 win season he was one of the better QBs in the league as far as Passer Rating and yds. This is also even though a horrible year his second year in a row throwing more TDs than INTs.

Runner
02-10-2006, 08:51 AM
Casserly had nothing to do with it. It was Reeves who recommended to McNair to keep Carr.

But neither Reeves nor Kubiak have sat in Reliant Section xxx and watched every Texan game for the past 4 years. How can they have the audacity to judge NFL talent? :sarcasm:

TEXANRED
02-10-2006, 08:58 AM
I disagree with that. Prior to last season Carr was the QB of a franchise that was improving every single year. 4, 5 , and then 7 wins had everyone happy and 90% of the posters here who are upset that we're not trading in our current QB for Vince "Captain Amazing" Young were nowhere to be seen.

One season where the entire team suffers a setback and all of a sudden he's crap that we need to kick to the curb? I disagree.
Kinda like Drew Brees. Had two decent years then a bad third, everyone bailed on him and took Rivers. Now look, they have an $8million dollar a year back up QB.

Buffi2
02-10-2006, 08:59 AM
Herv this is interesting to see from you. You are one of the guys that sees Carr for what he is a solid QB, who has some faults that have to be worked on. Good to see you back on, .

ditto...Extending Carr's contract was the only sensible thing to do given McNair and the fans want to see a winning team now - not 5 years from now as well as from a monetary/business point of view. Now that this little issue is settled, let us return to pre-draft VY days and support our team rather than tearing down every move they make. Last season is over - look forward to a great year next year. Go Texans!

HoustonFrog
02-10-2006, 09:01 AM
I think some people are confusing the questions that others have of Carr. I had no problem until last year and then I watched games more closely and saw things I did not like...work ethic questions, abilities not to fetal and throw balls away, etc. What it all comes down to it for me it isn't taking VY. My problem is that this contract deal with him is bigger than our #1 pick, to some extent, IMHO. You are giving franchise QB money to someone who might not take you anywhere for the next 3 years and who, so far, is only a "good" or "decent" QB. Nothing against the guy but sometimes everyone needs a fresh start......................................and please stop with "VY or whomever would set us back. We have seen playoff teams in Pitt, Cincy, Chicago to some extent...Brady in his second year that put things together. Their teams were better but there is no reason that a good QB in a new system, etc would not be able to make strides.

Lucky
02-10-2006, 09:05 AM
Prior to last season Carr was the QB of a franchise that was improving every single year. 4, 5 , and then 7 wins had everyone happy...
There has always been a faction of fans who have not liked Carr. Why? Because the QB gets too much credit for the wins and too much blame for the losses. And when a team goes 18-46, thereís a lot of blame to deal with. Fans wanted blood this offseason, and Capers, Pendry, and Fangio were not enough to satisfy.

I think if Casserly had been axed, and the new organization decided to keep Carr, there would be less venom towards David. I think if Vince had stayed in school, there would be less venom towards David. But until the Texans begin to win, Carr will always have his detractors. Thatís just the nature of the position.

Meisterman
02-10-2006, 09:08 AM
Casserly had nothing to do with it. It was Reeves who recommended to McNair to keep Carr.


If Casserly had no say so as GM then why wasn't he fired...the mire suggestion that Reeves opinion means more then the ACTING GM tells me all I need to know. :rolleyes:

MorKnolle
02-10-2006, 09:13 AM
Is Sherman coming to Houston? I haven't heard that yet. Good if he does.

On the radio yesterday they basically said that he had agreed to take the job but the terms of the deal hadn't been finalized as he was on a family vacation or something like that. He is supposed to come in over the weekend or early next week to sign and start working.

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 09:14 AM
There has always been a faction of fans who have not liked Carr. Why? Because the QB gets too much credit for the wins and too much blame for the losses. And when a team goes 18-46, thereís a lot of blame to deal with. Fans wanted blood this offseason, and Capers, Pendry, and Fangio were not enough to satisfy.

I think if Casserly had been axed, and the new organization decided to keep Carr, there would be less venom towards David. I think if Vince had stayed in school, there would be less venom towards David. But until the Texans begin to win, Carr will always have his detractors. Thatís just the nature of the position.

It really is about the volume of his detractors as it relates to his contract. He was, is and will be the highest paid guy on this team. The buck stops there. If the guy was paid more in line with his performance then it would not be as loud. The whole QB credit thing is overblown in my opinion at the NFL level. Makes for nice debate in HS and College. But in the NFL it is about value and we all hope that Carr's performance will live up to the contract finally.

Hervoyel
02-10-2006, 09:17 AM
:BananaWav 10%'er at your service Herv.

Yes I know. You are consistent and your current position is a clear evolution of things you've been saying for years. Your take is based on facts and years of studying the Carr's game.

There are more of you "10%'ers" out there and I have no issue with them. It's those guys with a 110 posts who just showed up 30 minutes after the Rose Bowl ended that I take issue with.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 09:18 AM
I think if Casserly had been axed, and the new organization decided to keep Carr, there would be less venom towards David. I think if Vince had stayed in school, there would be less venom towards David. But until the Texans begin to win, Carr will always have his detractors. Thatís just the nature of the position.

I've never thought David belonged in the future great quarterback league. I really didn't know much about him until he started playing for the Texans. While I've loved his arm from Day one, it wasn't till he had AJ, before I thought he could be our Troy Aikman.... and to some extent, I still think he can be very Aikman like, but to a lesser degree for sure. I doubt seriously, that he can take the Texans to a SuperBowl. A couple of playoff wins, maybe..

Last season was great.. I mean 2004, the 7-9 season. We looked like a frigg'n football team. I definitely got my hopes up wayyyyy to high this season, I was thinking Wildcard.

But since the begginning, I've always thought 90% of the QBs in the league would do about as well as David behind our line, on our team.


I think Vince, can be one of the 10% of QBs who could've done better.

Lucky
02-10-2006, 09:34 AM
It really is about the volume of his detractors as it relates to his contract.
I know that's been your central problem with Carr and I know that others feel the same way. But I don't see that's where the "volume" of Carr detractors come from. There just aren't as many cap savvy fans such as yourself.

And let's face it, almost all QBs are overpaid. Ask infantrycak whether or not he thinks Peyton Manning is overpaid. That's part of the "too much credit" that goes to QBs. NFL teams are just as guilty of overvalueing QBs as fans are.

HoustonFrog
02-10-2006, 09:38 AM
I know that's been your central problem with Carr and I know that others feel the same way. But I don't see that's where the "volume" of Carr detractors come from. There just aren't as many cap savvy fans such as yourself.

And let's face it, almost all QBs are overpaid. Ask infantrycak whether or not he thinks Peyton Manning is overpaid. That's part of the "too much credit" that goes to QBs. NFL teams are just as guilty of overvalueing QBs as fans are.

I wrote the same thing on the top of this page. Franchise money to an average QB as it stands right now. Playing to the level of the contract is what worries me. It isn't like owners have made msitakes before and there is part of me that thinks we are just too attached to him. Hopefully it all works out for us.

bigTEXan8
02-10-2006, 09:41 AM
:headbang: I'm stoked that they are giving Carr his extention. :yahoo:

uhcougar08
02-10-2006, 09:45 AM
If you want to support a perennial loser, be my guest. There are more people in Houston who agree with me. How'd you like those empty seats at Reliant? Get used to it.

The only loser is you......Good Bye

SESupergenius
02-10-2006, 09:56 AM
I wanted Young - not a Longhorns fan so save the cute remarks Hulk - but I'm a Texans fan first so I'm not going anywhere. I'll live with their decision because I really have no choice. Carr is getting a second chance and hopefully he can turn his career around. If he can, that's great for all of us. If he can't, this will be the worst decision made by management in the formative years of the organization. I hope he succeeds - for all of our sake. Right or wrong, fans will not have a lot of patience with him this season and he will need to turn it around quickly.
Cute remarks make this board fun. Besides it was aimed more on the bandwagon Young fans that are all of sudden Texans fans. I brought up the point a couple of months ago how if the offense is not good and fans give Carr a short leash, the there really was no point in picking up his bonus, he's damaged goods in the psyche of the UT fans. So by letting Carr go and drafting Young you put the rise or fall on many fans. I don't know how many there are, but there seems to be quite a bit. What they don't realize is the struggle this team is going through and that we just hired a brand new coach we have to implement a new system, draft in new positions for a 4-3 if we change to that, and the fact that it took Jake Plummer a couple of years to attain his level in the same kind of system. It won't be turned around in 2 seconds, no matter the QB.

Carr Bombed
02-10-2006, 09:56 AM
Humm, Neither was Montana (3rd round) or Brady (6th Round). Go back and look at Montana`s Bowl Games and look at VY Bowl Games.


http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016306.html


Think there is a similarity to their winningI know you just didn't play the Brady card on me.

That argument has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

First of all yes Montana was taken in the 3rd round, but who was begging for him with the 1st ovrl. pick......NOBODY.

Yes Brady was taken in the 6th round, but who was begging for him with the first ovrl. pick.......NOBODY.

In my argument I questioned why if people truly believed if Carr wasn't the guy at qb, then why haven't people also included Matt Lienart (btw, cause he isn't from Texas) who is a higher rated qb into the discussion with Vince who are just about the only QBs worth taking with our #1 ovrl pick.

By your logic you must assume we should just draft a QB who is projected to go inbetween rounds 3-6 with our #1 ovrl. pick, why because Montana was a 3rd rounder and Brady was a 6th round pick......yeah, that would get us laughed out of the country and straight to the CFL.

Montana and Brady are completely irrelevant to my argument

uhcougar08
02-10-2006, 10:00 AM
some of you that post every other 3rd post, it doesn't really mean that there are a bunch of us fans that wouldn't rather have Young as the QB.

i don't agree with this extension, #1 he isn't worth it #2 i don't think any other nfl team would pay that amount in a trade.

this really sucks.
Guess what......You can take that jersey and go sell it on ebay or something, VY will never be in a Texans Jersey......Thank the Lord.......For bringing back David Carr!!!!!

Htown34s
02-10-2006, 10:14 AM
So what do we do if Carr looks just as bad at the end of next year?

Extending Carr is a pivital move by this organization that will affect us for years. IMO it has more of a chance to be a negative move that could REALLY hurt us for a long, long time.

beerlover
02-10-2006, 10:14 AM
Young and Bush both looked intriguing but so does trading down. Basically, I hope they made/make the right choice.

this is what all Texans fans hope for :yahoo: to discuss these issues is what this message board should be all about. now, by extending David Carr he remains the Texans franchise QB, if..... the Texans do not draft VY they had better get Reggie Bush to at least put people back in their seats & fill Relient, otherwise nothing short of winning will ever bring them back :homer: ism can only carry you so far.

The Texans have sold quite a few David Carr #8 jersey's yet I wonder today with the announced extension that sales are really all that brisk :confused: now give us a #10 or #5 and watch the sales ring the cash register. its still a buisness & while trading down may make good football sense taking Reggie Bush, if its not going to be Vince Young is the only acceptable conclusion to this signing :read:

DRAMA
02-10-2006, 10:31 AM
That is right, I've been thinking the same thing-How patient are fans at Reliant going to be? I think they'll give him and this team about 6 weeks before the boo birds come out again.

The boo-birds will not be back this year. You're going to to see a different staff and a different attacking offense, IMO and just the thought that we may see some excitement on any given play, will make it all the more fun to watch.

We need to remember - Capers and thet Pendry cat are gone - they're just a nightmare now! :)

Carr Bombed
02-10-2006, 10:34 AM
So what do we do if Carr looks just as bad at the end of next year?

Extending Carr is a pivital move by this organization that will affect us for years. IMO it has more of a chance to be a negative move that could REALLY hurt us for a long, long time. Every move the organization makes is a pivital move that will effect us for years:

Last year we took T. Johnson and if we can't find a way to turn him into any kind of impact player, it'll effect us for years.

If P Buch can't remember that at one time he was a great prospect and a football player it'll effect us and is already effecting us.

The offensive line and personel decisions we made on the line have all ready have been effecting us for years.

Our FA decisions and some of the players we cut and let go to FA have been effecting us for years.

We also have made some good decisions that have effected us in a good way.

Like drafting AJ, Drob, DD, Mathis, and others and hopefully the hire of Kubiak will effect us in a positive way for years to come.

The point I'm trying to get at is all the decisions the FO makes is about faith, they have faith that they'll make the right decision and everything will work out. There is no difference in the decision to keep Carr, the FO have weighed all their options and have Faith that they made the right decision.

Regardless of how it turns out I can garrantee you one thing....It will not be the last good or bad decision we make.

So people shouldn't be running around like the legacy of this franchise is riding on this ONE DECISION (I'm not directing this at you, its just a observation of the mood thats been running rampid since our season ended and Vince declared)

chuckm
02-10-2006, 10:37 AM
But we see more then they do right?


ok Hulk my lawyer is drafting the papers as we speak ... I'm sueing you for eye damage ...

ToroFan
02-10-2006, 10:41 AM
I was wondering if Carr went on the free agent market, would a team pay him an 8 million dollar bonus with 5.2 million, 5.5 million, and 6 million over the next three years? I frankly don't know, I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on that...

Kaiser Toro
02-10-2006, 10:44 AM
I was wondering if Carr went on the free agent market, would a team pay him an 8 million dollar bonus with 5.2 million, 5.5 million, and 6 million over the next three years? I frankly don't know, I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on that...

You would get a resounding no from me, but as others have reminded me I am not a GM.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 10:45 AM
but as others have reminded me I am not a GM.

rats ... beat me too it ....:heh:

uhcougar08
02-10-2006, 10:46 AM
So what do we do if Carr looks just as bad at the end of next year?

Extending Carr is a pivital move by this organization that will affect us for years. IMO it has more of a chance to be a negative move that could REALLY hurt us for a long, long time.

Like selecting a QB from TU will help this organization. I love to hear VY fans cry today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It makes me sooooooo happy:yahoo:

Big B Texan Fan
02-10-2006, 10:51 AM
The boo-birds will not be back this year. You're going to to see a different staff and a different attacking offense, IMO and just the thought that we may see some excitement on any given play, will make it all the more fun to watch.

We need to remember - Capers and thet Pendry cat are gone - they're just a nightmare now! :)
The boo-birds are gonna swarm with every incompletions, every time bush gets tackled behind the LOS.

TEXANRED
02-10-2006, 11:00 AM
The boo-birds are gonna swarm with every incompletions, every time bush gets tackled behind the LOS.
This is an old topic but I stand by what I said last year. If you are gonna boo the home team then stay at home and sulk somewhere in a dark corner. In our time of struggles and uncertainty we need to get back to a positive "We belive" kind of place. Not the negativeness the booing brings.

My :twocents:

HoustonFrog
02-10-2006, 11:06 AM
Same OLD THING over and Over. Read the 1,000,000,000 threads that answer your questions.

Really!!I thought it was a legitimate post. OK, here is what we are going to do. When you get out of your RIF class you can review the posts again and see what I actually said instead of your inane attacks. I want Bush and don't want VY. It is a money issue and you didn't answer it because you are too busy putting on lipstick before going over to Carr's house. Simmer. Fine if we sign him. I'm worried about the cash. If he continues to struggle will you keep screaming at people for no reason?

chuckm
02-10-2006, 11:08 AM
Really!!I thought it was a legitimate post. OK, here is what we are going to do. When you get out of your RIF class you can review the posts again and see what I actually said instead of your inane attacks. Can you read?I want Bush and don't want VY. It is a money issue adn you didn't answer it because youa re too busy putting on lipstick before going over to Carr's house. Get a life dude and simmer down.

this outta be good ..... Hulk? You out there?

HoustonFrog
02-10-2006, 11:14 AM
this outta be good ..... Hulk? You out there?

I'm sure I shouldn't have posted that but oh well. :cool: I don't want VY, want Bush and have been pretty neautral on the rest. Didn't go to UT either..obviously. I guess talking about David Carroesh and the cult following is a nono.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 11:15 AM
I'm sure I shouldn't have posted that but oh well. :cool: I don't want VY, want Bush and have been pretty neautral on the rest. Didn't go to UT either..obviously. I guess talking about David Carroesh and the cult following is a nono.


see now everyone will know that it was you the other day that started the trouble and not me .... :stirpot:

(you know I'm messin with you)

HoustonFrog
02-10-2006, 11:20 AM
see now everyone will know that it was you the other day that started the trouble and not me .... :stirpot:

(you know I'm messin with you)

LOL..I took a few days off so it wasn't me. Honestly, I just don't know why I get attacked by the guy. He wanted me off the board another time and I said nothing. Anyways........

$$$$$$$$$$, is all I'm woried about with this contract. Money for production. That goes for the team and the FA we have brought in.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 11:22 AM
I was wondering if Carr went on the free agent market, would a team pay him an 8 million dollar bonus with 5.2 million, 5.5 million, and 6 million over the next three years? I frankly don't know, I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on that...


$15million for 3 years.... oops, forgot the bonus. $23 million for three years($7.6 mil/year)....

well, if Alex Smith got $50million for 4 years($12.5 mil/year), I think it's a pretty good deal.

I doubt anyone would've picked him up for more than a year, but I think they would've given him at least $8 million for the year.

Coach C.
02-10-2006, 11:30 AM
Carr would likely get a multi-year deal that would be similar to Jake Plummer's. It will make him moveable for 2years and then a large option to be paid or restructured if he is the man wherever he ended up. Glad he is not getting free though, wish they would have restructured the deal completely giving him the opportunity to earn the bonus back over the next two years.

Wharton
02-10-2006, 11:36 AM
In other words Go Longhorns...........
Good Job with the crystal ball:cool:

Wrong, Gigem Aggies.

Not everybody who supports VY is a tsipper.

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 11:41 AM
whats going to happen next season when Carr starts to suck again? I would hate to see us playing the Titans and Vince Young in the future and he is having a better game then the Lemon we have. If we get a better line and Carr still sucks we are in major trouble the fans will never let the texans forget that they had a changes to draft VY.


What would really be bad, is if the Texans fans boo Carr, and cheer for Vince as a Titan. That would truly sicken me.

jerek
02-10-2006, 11:44 AM
whats going to happen next season when Carr starts to suck again? I would hate to see us playing the Titans and Vince Young in the future and he is having a better game then the Lemon we have. If we get a better line and Carr still sucks we are in major trouble the fans will never let the texans forget that they had a changes to draft VY.

Your "what's going to happen" is based on a number of silly assumptions, and yet I can't help but notice you pose the question as factual.

What's going to happen when In-Vince-able loses a game or two or nine next year, while David Carr leads this team to a 9-7 record? Will you still be asking silly questions then?

Blake
02-10-2006, 11:56 AM
would the oilers have pass on drafting Earl Campbell? I could not imagine Campbell not playing for the oilers just because he was from Texas. Remember this words and think about it later if the Texans do not pick VY and go with the "Mattress on my back Carr" they will be sorry.:crying: :crying: :crying:

You make it sound like the Texans dock you for being from Texas. What a silly thing to say. Stop your crying.

TexansJunkE
02-10-2006, 12:32 PM
Just saw on ESPN that we resigned Carr for the 3 yr option and Mike Sherman is gonna be our asst coach. Anyone know when the new conf. is gonna be?

TexanAddict
02-10-2006, 12:49 PM
would the oilers have pass on drafting Earl Campbell? I could not imagine Campbell not playing for the oilers just because he was from Texas. Remember this words and think about it later if the Texans do not pick VY and go with the "Mattress on my back Carr" they will be sorry.:crying: :crying: :crying:

Wordem? Is that you?

chuckm
02-10-2006, 12:53 PM
Wordem? Is that you?


hahahahah I was thinking that EXACT thing .... sweet

thunderkyss
02-10-2006, 01:01 PM
Lets say someone else takes him..doesnt matter who. And you go become their fan.. what if VY breaks his leg and ends his career before it starts? Im not wishing any ill will on him or anything..but assume that did happen.



What are we going to do if Carr breaks his leg?? Carreer ending kinda stuff.





thought I had to put that in there. If we are going to jinx Vince's career, might as well jinx Carr's carreer...........too late...

Tha_Tinman
02-10-2006, 01:27 PM
The three year deal would be silly. Who cares what signal it sends? No need to nurse the guy, he's a man. If they want to keep him, fine. No reason to guarantee more money/years than necessary to keep him. If they wanna tie up 16-24 million in Carr, then they should put a little money in a realistic backup. See how he handles the competition, be ready in case he finally breaks down. Josh McCown is floating out there.

Josh McCown, Sam Houston State University's finest ...IMO they should've taken Julius Peppers with the 1st pick in 2002 and taken Mccown with a later pick as the 1st quarterback ...we'd be doing a lot better right now!

CaptainPatriot
02-10-2006, 01:53 PM
I think some people are confusing the questions that others have of Carr. I had no problem until last year and then I watched games more closely and saw things I did not like...work ethic questions, abilities not to fetal and throw balls away, etc. What it all comes down to it for me it isn't taking VY. My problem is that this contract deal with him is bigger than our #1 pick, to some extent, IMHO. You are giving franchise QB money to someone who might not take you anywhere for the next 3 years and who, so far, is only a "good" or "decent" QB. Nothing against the guy but sometimes everyone needs a fresh start......................................and please stop with "VY or whomever would set us back. We have seen playoff teams in Pitt, Cincy, Chicago to some extent...Brady in his second year that put things together. Their teams were better but there is no reason that a good QB in a new system, etc would not be able to make strides.


You make some good points! Look at Plunkett. With his new start. ended up with 2 super bowl wins and 1 MVP!

Grid
02-10-2006, 02:59 PM
since clairvoyance seems to be such a common trait on this board.. could anyone give me some lottery numbers?

maybe: 8 42 9 1 50 3

as in Carr (#8) will take us to superbowl 43(#43) in 2009 (#9) and we will be number 1 (#1) by winning the game 50 (#50) to 3 (#3).

:) or do I need to change the 8 to a 10?

CaptainPatriot
02-10-2006, 03:22 PM
whats going to happen next season when Carr starts to suck again? I would hate to see us playing the Titans and Vince Young in the future and he is having a better game then the Lemon we have. If we get a better line and Carr still sucks we are in major trouble the fans will never let the texans forget that they had a changes to draft VY.



I have the same thoughts! Keeping Carr is like putting Lip Stick and Perfume
on a Pig. It still a Pig! No matter how you dress up the pig. I can see Butt Adams and VY coming into town and torching the Texans game in and game out. 2 -3 Yrs from now Texans build up their D and O-Line. With the Draft and free agents. Then opposing Teams D plays for Carr to beat them. Texans end up like Broncos with Plummer. Can't handle the Pressure! Is it me or does Carr and Plummer have same similarites? It would suck to get all the way to the AFC Championship game and have Carr lose it by making wrong Decisions! I don't think Carr can handle the PRESSURE of a Game of that magnitude! It's time to stop using excuses for Carr! IE: O-Line problems. How is it Brady can lead the league in Passing yards with more problems on the O-Line than Texans O-Line? Brady had 2 Rookies on the left side most of the Year! Brady has no AJ either! Also Texans were 15th(113.5yds.) in rushing PATS were 24th(94.5yds).Teams were TEEING OFF on Brady! Brady was hit just as hard as Carr this year if not more. It comes down to Quick Decisions and Carr just doesn't have it. Carr is FOOL'S GOLD! I would take QB Matt Cassel of the PATS right now over Carr. He already makes good Decisions in his 1st yr! IE:He went up against Miami's #1 D with 3rd string O-Line blocking and almost pulled it off with a win.

chuckm
02-10-2006, 03:57 PM
Found this on www.profootballtalk.com (usual disclaimers apply)



TEXANS KEEP CARR

The Houston Texans have exercised an $8 million option payment that will extend quarterback David Carr's contract through 2008.

Although, on the surface, the move indicates that the Texans will not select Texas quarterback Vince Young with the No. 1 overall pick in the April draft, John McClain of The Houston Chronicle reports that the decision to keep Carr "has nothing to do with the top pick in the draft."

Um, John. The team's official logo is a starry-eyed bull -- not a steaming pile of bullsh-t. Of course the move has something to do with the top pick in the draft. If the Texans were thinking of trading Carr and taking Young, the Texans would have at least tried to re-work Carr's deal in order to make it more tradeable and/or to avoid handing $8 million to a guy who might not take another snap with the team.

But we likewise don't think that the move means that the Texans are certain to draft USC running back Reggie Bush with the top pick. They could still slide down in round one, stockpiling some extra picks and still getting a guy who could help the offense tremendously, such as Virginia tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

MojoX
02-10-2006, 04:17 PM
Here is a transcript of the press conference:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2392

TreWardTxn
02-10-2006, 04:28 PM
It looks like with this resigning, the Texans are either going to draft Bush, or trade down. All I want to say, there is a lot more dispute over whether the Texans are making the right decision (in foregoing drafting Young) at the national level then most posters on this MB believe. Basically, this is not a UT Fans vs. The World argument like many try to taint it...

jerek
02-10-2006, 04:35 PM
It looks like with this resigning, the Texans are either going to draft Bush, or trade down. All I want to say, there is a lot more dispute over whether the Texans are making the right decision (in foregoing drafting Young) at the national level then most posters on this MB believe. Basically, this is not a UT Fans vs. The World argument like many try to taint it...

Actually, the opposite is very true. You will not hear much about "we must draft Vince" outside of Texas. The fact remains that many if not most scouts/analysts/talent evaluators not only have Leinart as the best QB available in this year's draft, but an overwhelming number of them believe we should draft Bush, with some others falling into the trade down camp.

Hate to say it, but that is the truth of the situation.

lsmoreno56
02-10-2006, 04:53 PM
Am I the only one that thinks david carr will be the QB to lead the texans to their first playoff berth?(If the rest of the team gets better)
No, you're not the only one. Carr will be the QB when we make the playoffs!

chapone22
02-10-2006, 05:12 PM
If the team gets better Carr will produce Why don"t they Buy the entire Pro bowl team minus the Quarterback and let Carr play with them ..Well wake up Carr is not a starting quarterback and never will be...The Quarterback gets paid to make things happen and so far the only thing he has improved is his Bank account..If Carr is there next year then be ready to watch the playoffs without the Texans

CaptainPatriot
02-10-2006, 07:09 PM
No, you're not the only one. Carr will be the QB when we make the playoffs!


I'm curious you said DC will LEAD Texans to playoffs. Are you saying leadership comes from getting better players? :confused:

Ibar_Harry
02-10-2006, 08:22 PM
Having read the transcripts of the press conference I must say I'm very happy about the direction the Texans have taken and Carr has taken. The HC and the QB have to be on the same page. It sounds to me like that is the case. If the doubters would go back and read what was said you can read between the lines about what was not said or ducked.

I think Carr has been a very committed player who has suffered at the hands of a totally inept coaching staff. That is true of every other player on the Texans as well. Look at what Kubiack is saying and you see immediately where the faults lay. I have the feeling once again that we now have a TEAM, not a bunch of individuals. I find it interesting that they say finding Carr was easy and I believe that has always been the case. They are already working together and I think Carr, if he has been dogging it at all, was a result of really not being able to work with the previous staff. Then, I don't think anyone could. I think that was one of the real issues with the previous coaching staff.

You have a very good young coach who seems to be saying a lot of the right things. I hope this translates into what we all want. I'm very impressed with what Kubiack is picking at in his presentations. I felt any coach coming in here, as well as any one we played against, would have analyzed Carr and known what his strengths and weaknesses were. That certainly came out in the press conference. I have a feeling that Carr is more than impressive in their eyes. Apparently Kubiack has liked Carr for some time. May be its not just Houston that lead Kubiack to take the job with the Texans. Kubiack actally made some strong inferences with respect to the O-line. They really have to begin playing like a team. As Kubiack stated its a 50-50 deal. The line must do its part along with the QB.

On another issue I liked what McNair said about finally providing the talent and assets Carr needs if the Texans are to become a winning ball club. Of course its not all about Carr as ONE man does not make a football team. Houston, right now it looks like you are once again on the right path to once again having an NFL team you will be proud to call your own. Let it happen and I think you will all be impressed. Good luck and GOOOO TEXAAAANS......

Vinny
02-10-2006, 08:40 PM
Hey Ibar. Nice post. If we go with Carr we just have to hang in there and hope for the best.

nunusguy
02-10-2006, 08:50 PM
If we go with Carr we just have to hang in there and hope for the best.
Now that's what I like to hear Vinny, 'cause you were sounding like a bit of a malcontent very early in the new Gary Kubiak era. But I'm glad you've signed
on and decided to give the new coach your support as he trys to turn the Texans around.

Txn_in_Oki
02-10-2006, 08:59 PM
Just read the article about the extension. To me it seems that come April we are looking at a trade down situation. While I would love to see Bush out there in steel blue I really think trading down is best for the team as a whole.

Malloy
02-11-2006, 09:15 AM
Just read the article about the extension. To me it seems that come April we are looking at a trade down situation. While I would love to see Bush out there in steel blue I really think trading down is best for the team as a whole.

Tough one, I can come up with arguments both for and against Bush/Young/tradedown so honestly, I have no clue what road we take. Either choice would not come as a surprise to me. Regardless, we are going to get some good players this draft, regardless of what road we take.

Vinny
02-11-2006, 09:39 AM
Now that's what I like to hear Vinny, 'cause you were sounding like a bit of a malcontent very early in the new Gary Kubiak era. But I'm glad you've signed
on and decided to give the new coach your support as he trys to turn the Texans around.I don't like much of what I see, so I express a bit of it. I'm not big into being a homer since I'm a football and NFL Fan first, and Texans fan second...but really, what can I do about any decision they make? Nuttin. Just hope for the best and hope they can get something out of Carr over and above what he gave us his first 60 NFL starts. If they can get his play up to his cap hit...my hats off.

bigTEXan8
02-11-2006, 09:56 AM
All any of us can do is hope for the best and hope that Kubiak turns this team around. I have faith in the fact that he will. He collectively knows more about football than everyone on this board combined, so I think that Kubiak can make this team a better team.

Wolf
02-11-2006, 10:58 AM
From McClains column:

"Carrís extension calls for the $8 million bonus and base salaries of $5.25 million this year, $5.5 million in 2007 and $6 million in 2008. As the top pick in the 2002 draft, Carr already has made $22 million over his first four years, not counting incentive bonuses. Barring a career-ending injury and a restructuring for salary-cap purposes, Carr will earn $46.75 million over the first seven years of his career."

BF mine. Am I the only one who thinks this is criminal?

not too bad it is only 110,000 dollars a sack :heh:

texanskan
02-11-2006, 01:47 PM
First the Texans better draft Vince he not only will be better than Carr one day he is better than him now. Second as far as this extention it shows me he will either be the quarterback long term or the Texans will try to trade him and draft Vince. Personally I would of not given Carr the extention and just franchised him then made the decision wheather to start him for a year with Vince as the backup or move him before the start of the season.

bigTEXan8
02-11-2006, 02:33 PM
not too bad it is only 110,000 dollars a sack :heh:

Nice!!! Oh wait...DC just got sacked again.

BF mine. Am I the only one who thinks this is criminal?

What's criminal is the lack of protection this team has provided him over the past four years. What's criminal is the fact that the Texans have gone above and beyond to try and ruin a possibly solid QB, at least that's what it has looked like. Unfortunately, We can't charge the Texans front office with stupidity, you can only tell them they are. I say, if for some reason we do draft VY, and he starts, he succeeds as much as DC did in his first four years.

Nighthawk
02-11-2006, 02:54 PM
David Carr says:

"Obviously, my career here these first four years hasn't been quite what we wanted it to be, but I know that (Kubiak) can take me to the level that I want to play at, and he can take this team to the level that we need to play at," Carr said. "To my teammates at home, they're going to get everything that I have.


Maybe he means:

"Obviously, I've played as well as I could under the circumstances. The problem is I wasn't coached well, and we had a cruddy offensive line. If we'd had a good offensive line I would have really played great. I wouldn't have been sacked all those times, and I'd have had time to see my receivers, who, by the way, aren't all that good at getting open, so they're kind of hard to see. Anyway, if Kubes can coach up the rest of these stiffs to give me some protection and get open, you'll see a new Me out there next year."

bigTEXan8
02-11-2006, 03:18 PM
David Carr says:

"Obviously, my career here these first four years hasn't been quite what we wanted it to be, but I know that (Kubiak) can take me to the level that I want to play at, and he can take this team to the level that we need to play at," Carr said. "To my teammates at home, they're going to get everything that I have.


Maybe he means:

"Obviously, I've played as well as I could under the circumstances. The problem is I wasn't coached well, and we had a cruddy offensive line. If we'd had a good offensive line I would have really played great. I wouldn't have been sacked all those times, and I'd have had time to see my receivers, who, by the way, aren't all that good at getting open, so they're kind of hard to see. Anyway, if Kubes can coach up the rest of these stiffs to give me some protection and get open, you'll see a new Me out there next year."

That is probably what he means. I wouldn't be suprised.

CaptainPatriot
02-11-2006, 03:22 PM
I know you just didn't play the Brady card on me.

That argument has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

First of all yes Montana was taken in the 3rd round, but who was begging for him with the 1st ovrl. pick......NOBODY.

Yes Brady was taken in the 6th round, but who was begging for him with the first ovrl. pick.......NOBODY.

In my argument I questioned why if people truly believed if Carr wasn't the guy at qb, then why haven't people also included Matt Lienart (btw, cause he isn't from Texas) who is a higher rated qb into the discussion with Vince who are just about the only QBs worth taking with our #1 ovrl pick.

By your logic you must assume we should just draft a QB who is projected to go inbetween rounds 3-6 with our #1 ovrl. pick, why because Montana was a 3rd rounder and Brady was a 6th round pick......yeah, that would get us laughed out of the country and straight to the CFL.

Montana and Brady are completely irrelevant to my argument


My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.

Texans86
02-11-2006, 04:03 PM
My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.

Umm...last time I checked, Rothlisberger has a ring. He may not have done great getting it, but he has one. That right there should tell people that a team wins the Super Bowl, not a great quarterback.

BTW, I'd be happy if Carr threw 10 ints, 0 TDs and was sacked 15 times in the Super Bowl if we still won the Championship.

Carr Bombed
02-11-2006, 07:17 PM
My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.Will you stop putting Brady, Montana, and Vince all in the same breath, he hasn't taken one NFL snap. Ryan Leaf had "it" in college, let the guy come in and prove himself before we go ahead and elect him to the HOF. The kind of pressure he faced in college, standing behind the best oline in college facing butter defenses, is nothing compared to facing a real NFL defense standing behind our line.

As far as Vick, Manning, Mcnabb, and Roethlisberger, they all have something Vince doesn't have, a outstanding winning record at the NEXT LEVEL. As far as you saying Ben doesn't have "it", thats rediculous. He has only lost 3 games as a starter and now holds the record for the most wins to start a career over a two year span and took his team to the Superbowl in just his second year. Superbowls aren't a given, Ben could have already accomplished something that Vince never will, winning a championship at the NEXT LEVEL.

As far as Lienart being damaged goods, thats non sense, he doesn't have a bad knee. The reason why he didn't run well is because he is a prototypical pocket passer, not a runner. Also I'm glad that you say, "the only thing that matters is what you do in the fourth quarter", because Lienart had just as many impressive fourth quarters as Vince and played under ALOT more pressure than Vince. He played under the west coast media, had the pressure of carrying a three year winning streak into every game and didn't have the luxury of playing along side the countries best defense.

I'm also glad you hold Leadership so high. Lienart is a team captain, who is a very vocal leader, who led his team to 3 straight conference championships to Vince's 1, 3 straight NC appearences (winning two) to Vince's 1 and gave up Millions and being the #1 ovrl pick to come back and LEAD his team to a third straight championship appearence, if that doesn't say LEADER I don't know what does.

He also did it by running a PRO style offense, which is the reason Scouts and GMs and pretty much everbody else in the country has him rated AHEAD of Vince. If the roles were reversed and Lienart led the horns to one of the best winning streaks in college football history, 2 national championships and had one of the best winning records as a starting college QB in college football history, but lost to Vince and the USC trojans on a 4th and 2 play, this wouldn't even have been close. We would all be reading Draft Matt or Die threads right now and reading about how Matt is God and how Matt is the savior for the Texans. We would be reading how Matt is a great leader and competitor and how Matt his "it", whatever it is.

The only people that have Vince ahead of Matt is people in this state. The overwhelming majority around the country clearly has Matt ahead of him and now people are starting to rate Cuttler ahead of him too, but with all that said and with all the Carr bashing going on and with everybody begging for a new qb, Matt's name is NEVER BROUGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION. I question the motives and wonder why?

Wolf
02-11-2006, 07:18 PM
http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/blog.cfm

We thank our loyal readers for linking our site elsewhere on the Net. We know we have actually become the "village *****s" of draft sites to some, on various message boards (i.e: Texans; Cardinals), because we have dared to project Texas quarterback Vince Young going 10th overall.

Reading responses on some of these boards, we can see some think we are "worthless", "morons", "clueless" or whatever, for not having Young in the top 3, like the other sheep on the Net.

Maybe our opinion of Young's draft status will change after the Combine or Pro Days, but for now we've openly stated our reasons why we think Young is a bit of a risk being drafted real high (see January 5th blog notes). Also, we don't see how projecting a player to be taken 10th overall in the draft is an insult to the player. It's just our opinion of how things will play out... Anyhow, it's nice to know the folks over at the Sporting News are going to also be tagged with the "*****" and "moron" label, as they are now projecting Young to go 10th overall.

Why we think Vince Young "might" last until the 10th overall pick:

Houston -- Some Houston fans seem to think David Carr is about the worst quarterback you can have, but has anybody noticed he has completed over 60% of his attempts, thrown for over 6,000 yards and tossed more TD's than Int's the last 2 seasons (30 TD's; 25 Int's), despite playing on a team that has really struggled to protect him and provide him with weapons?

stevo3883
02-11-2006, 08:11 PM
Will you stop putting Brady, Montana, and Vince all in the same breath, he hasn't taken one NFL snap. Ryan Leaf had "it" in college, let the guy come in and prove himself before we go ahead and elect him to the HOF. The kind of pressure he faced in college, standing behind the best oline in college facing butter defenses, is nothing compared to facing a real NFL defense standing behind our line.yeah, ohio state and that "butter defense"... if anyone faced butter it was leinart. try and at least be objective.

As far as Vick, Manning, Mcnabb, and Roethlisberger, they all have something Vince doesn't have, a outstanding winning record at the NEXT LEVEL. As far as you saying Ben doesn't have "it", thats rediculous. He has only lost 3 games as a starter and now holds the record for the most wins to start a career over a two year span and took his team to the Superbowl in just his second year. Superbowls aren't a given, Ben could have already accomplished something that Vince never will, winning a championship at the NEXT LEVEL. ben could have accomplished somethign vince never will? what? how about vince has accomplished something ben never will?

As far as Lienart being damaged goods, thats non sense, he doesn't have a bad knee. The reason why he didn't run well is because he is a prototypical pocket passer, not a runner. Also I'm glad that you say, "the only thing that matters is what you do in the fourth quarter", because Lienart had just as many impressive fourth quarters as Vince and played under ALOT more pressure than Vince. He played under the west coast media, had the pressure of carrying a three year winning streak into every game and didn't have the luxury of playing along side the countries best defense. LOL @ this whole paragraph, what a joke... Matt under more pressure? Vince was the whole UT team jesus... the pressure of the west coast media?? he was a media darling they loved him. pressure? pfft.
then vince gets knocked for playing "alongside" a great defense? forget the fact that leinart has nfl caliber players at every skill position and all over the offensive line, vince had underclassmen. you're ridiculouly biased

I'm also glad you hold Leadership so high. Lienart is a team captain, who is a very vocal leader, who led his team to 3 straight conference championships to Vince's 1, 3 straight NC appearences (winning two) to Vince's 1 and gave up Millions and being the #1 ovrl pick to come back and LEAD his team to a third straight championship appearence, if that doesn't say LEADER I don't know what does. a pac-10 conference champ is a joke because they dont even have a champ game. then Matt Leinart played in TWO NC games. the rose bowl against Michigan was not the NC game, seeing how if michigan had won they wouldnt have been national champs. leinart is a good leader but dont exagerrate what he did.he didnt give up millions to come back, he just delayed it a year, and didnt do it solely for the team as he needed shoulder surgery that mightve moved him out of the top spot.

He also did it by running a PRO style offense, which is the reason Scouts and GMs and pretty much everbody else in the country has him rated AHEAD of Vince. If the roles were reversed and Lienart led the horns to one of the best winning streaks in college football history, 2 national championships and had one of the best winning records as a starting college QB in college football history, but lost to Vince and the USC trojans on a 4th and 2 play, this wouldn't even have been close. We would all be reading Draft Matt or Die threads right now and reading about how Matt is God and how Matt is the savior for the Texans. We would be reading how Matt is a great leader and competitor and how Matt his "it", whatever it is.give me a break, USC doesnt run a pro style offense. they run yuor basic run of the mill pac-10 WC offense. no different that Cal or Oregon or many others. and your usc bias shows clearly when u say USC "lost on a 4th and 2 play" when it was texas, and more importantly vince, whom WON it on the 4th and 5 play. this is much like leinarts whiney comments about them being the better team. USC didnt lose the game, Texas won it.

The only people that have Vince ahead of Matt is people in this state. The overwhelming majority around the country clearly has Matt ahead of him and now people are starting to rate Cuttler ahead of him too, but with all that said and with all the Carr bashing going on and with everybody begging for a new qb, Matt's name is NEVER BROUGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION. I question the motives and wonder why?thats simply not true that the only people that have vince ahead of matt are here. and calling it the "overwhelming majority" is hilarious. please, show some proof for this majority.

and you want to know why no one wants matt? because he would do absolutely no better than Carr here. he is a slower, less mobile, more easily rattled, weaker armed david carr. Vince brings the ability to escape the pocket and avoid pressure that results from a bad oline. the reason the saints want leinart is because they just need a qb who will get the ball to theri playmakers, and thats it. they have all the pieces in place and just want a game manager. Vince is a weapon, matt is a game manager.


and for the record i dont know who they should pick either bush or vince, but lets keep the ridiculouly untrue statements out of our rants, mmkay?

Wolf
02-11-2006, 08:15 PM
Well Matt won the heisman and his QB rating is a little higher last season compared to his heisman year (not by much)... It isn't like he had a bad season.

What moved him out of the top spot was fresno state and Bush's "heisman" game

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511

and 2003 was his best season and no heisman .

stevo3883
02-11-2006, 08:20 PM
Well Matt won the heisman and his QB rating is a little higher last season compared to his heisman year (not by much)... It isn't like he had a bad season.

What moved him out of the top spot was fresno state and Bush's "heisman" game

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511

and 2003 was his best season and no heisman .

what moved him out of the top spot is the fact that he didnt really improve much, but guys like Reggie and Vince improved A LOT.

honestly, with those players, in that offense, against those defenses. he shouldve had better numbers. he shouldve had a wow number like reggie's 8.9ypc

Wolf
02-11-2006, 08:30 PM
not that I like matt... he completed 72 percent of his passes against Texas.. and that was as close as a NFL defense you could have gotten in college..

I don't really know how much he could have improved. from 156 qb rating from 2004 to 157 qb rating in 2005

even with his season he had in 2003 (162 qb rating) he wouldn't have won it with the way Bush played.

:cool:

stevo3883
02-11-2006, 08:36 PM
not that I like matt... he completed 72 percent of his passes against Texas.. and that was as close as a NFL defense you could have gotten in college..

I don't really know how much he could have improved. from 156 qb rating from 2004 to 157 qb rating in 2005

even with his season he had in 2003 (162 qb rating) he wouldn't have won it with the way Bush played.

:cool:

he couldve had a season with around 4000-4500 yards and 40 td's.

instead his passing stats were comparable to VY's, and vince had that 1000 rushing yards trump card.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
02-11-2006, 09:03 PM
I know everybody has mixed reactions about David Carr, bust please everyone he is our quarterback and he is from the team we all love. that's why we are on this message board day in a day out, so everyone please give him and our new couching staff all the encouragement they need to climb up this hill and give the great city of Houston a championship someday soon hopefully. GO TEXANS !:redtowel:

Carr Bombed
02-11-2006, 09:15 PM
ohio state and that "butter defense"... if anyone faced butter it was leinart. try and at least be objective. Ah....compared to the defenses he's going to face in the NFL....yeah and I guess Texas had a butter defense, because thats the defense Matt faced and he moved the ball up and down the field on them, its just to bad Matt didn't have a defense of that caliber or he would of won the game. As far as being objective....Hello I'm making a case for Matt Lienart, because nobody else is, how more objective can I be, I'm probably the only objective Horn fan on this board.

LOL @ this whole paragraph, what a joke... Matt under more pressure? Vince was the whole UT team jesus... the pressure of the west coast media?? he was a media darling they loved him. pressure? pfft.
then vince gets knocked for playing "alongside" a great defense? forget the fact that leinart has nfl caliber players at every skill position and all over the offensive line, vince had underclassmen. you're ridiculouly biased I'm glad you got a laugh, because I'm laughing at this whole statement.....Vince was the whole UT team........hahahahahahahaha, I guess he didn't have one of the best all around TEs in the country who BTW caught most of his passes which were mostly HUGE 3rd down conversions in the NC game. I guess Vince didn't have 3 outstanding backs in the backfield who could be rotated in and out. I guess Vince didn't have the countries best defense, you know the one that came up with 2 huge 4th and short stops to save the game, you know the one that has first day prospects riddled all accross the secondary and one of the countries best Dlines. Vince also has very good receivers. Sweed is a mismatch down the field with his size and is very underated. As far as Lienart having nfl caliber players all over the oline, TEXAS' oline was even BETTER. Again I'm a diehard UT fan and I'm making a case for Lienart and you call me biased....hahahhahahhaha. No I'm not biased, but there sure are alot of biased people that post here, I'm not going to name names.

leinart is a good leader but dont exagerrate what he did.he didnt give up millions to come back, he just delayed it a year, and didnt do it solely for the team as he needed shoulder surgery that mightve moved him out of the top spot.
ah yeah he did......Somebody broke down the math on espn radio......The guy literly lost over a million dollars for ever game he played last year. Thats how much money he lost falling out of the top spot. Also he would of been the top pick regardless of the surgury, last years draft was one of the weakest qb drafts and with the 49ers having the top pick Matt would've been the guy.
give me a break, USC doesnt run a pro style offense. they run yuor basic run of the mill pac-10 WC offense. no different that Cal or Oregon or many others.

ah......yes they do run a pro style offense, man and you have the gall to call me biased, their freaking coordinator who designed the offense is now A FREAKING OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR IN THE NFL!

and your usc bias shows clearly when u say USC "lost on a 4th and 2 play" when it was texas, and more importantly vince, whom WON it on the 4th and 5 play. this is much like leinarts whiney comments about them being the better team. USC didnt lose the game, Texas won it.

Oh, really my bias clearly shows........hmm.....what does this show

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18302&highlight=ROME

maybe that you don't know what your talking about again I'm a UT fan I have a freaking tatto, I love Vince and appreciate everything he did for Texas, I'm just not biased and seperate college from the NFL and was making a case for Lienart because nobody else is and that proves there are bias and favortism towards Young because he's from Texas.
USC lost the game on a 4th and 2 play, they would have won the game if they converted. Texas won the game when they stopped USC on 4th and 2, they would have lost if they didn't stop USC, Whichever way you want me to put it, there it is.

[I]thats simply not true that the only people that have vince ahead of matt are here. and calling it the "overwhelming majority" is hilarious. [B]please, show some proof for this majority.Ah...go look at just about every mock written in the country and most polls, they all have Matt ahead of Young.

and you want to know why no one wants matt? because he would do absolutely no better than Carr here. he is a slower, less mobile, more easily rattled, weaker armed david carr.].
I love it how yall can tell the future......again you have the gall to call me biased.


and for the record i dont know who they should pick either bush or vince, but lets keep the ridiculouly untrue statements out of our rants, mmkay?
WOW after reading your quotes I was thinking the exact same thing, I guess you can predict the future.

Now excuse me I have to run to KFC, before it closes to get some dinner. BB in 25 minutes

stevo3883
02-11-2006, 11:02 PM
Ah....compared to the defenses he's going to face in the NFL....yeah and I guess Texas had a butter defense, because thats the defense Matt faced and he moved the ball up and down the field on them, its just to bad Matt didn't have a defense of that caliber or he would of won the game. As far as being objective....Hello I'm making a case for Matt Lienart, because nobody else is, how more objective can I be, I'm probably the only objective Horn fan on this board. Ohio state's secondary and LB crew is better than ours (the texans, especially their linebackers). i meant be objective as in dont sound like a total leinart homer. Im sorry but constantly saying "im a huge ut fan" and then constantly trashing texas dont go hand in hand.

I'm glad you got a laugh, because I'm laughing at this whole statement.....Vince was the whole UT team........hahahahahahahaha, I guess he didn't have one of the best all around TEs in the country who BTW caught most of his passes which were mostly HUGE 3rd down conversions in the NC game. I guess Vince didn't have 3 outstanding backs in the backfield who could be rotated in and out. I guess Vince didn't have the countries best defense, you know the one that came up with 2 huge 4th and short stops to save the game, you know the one that has first day prospects riddled all accross the secondary and one of the countries best Dlines. Vince also has very good receivers. Sweed is a mismatch down the field with his size and is very underated. As far as Lienart having nfl caliber players all over the oline, TEXAS' oline was even BETTER. Again I'm a diehard UT fan and I'm making a case for Lienart and you call me biased....hahahhahahhaha. No I'm not biased, but there sure are alot of biased people that post here, I'm not going to name names a few things- Texas did not have the countries best defense... usc scored 38, I would say tOSU had the best D in the nation.
USC's skill players are amazingly good. i mean try to downplay it all you want but they are exactly why USC was favored by over a TD. Texas had a much better defense and they were STILL 8 POINT UNDERDOGS. Texas had underclassmen at every skill position.

ah yeah he did......Somebody broke down the math on espn radio......The guy literly lost over a million dollars for ever game he played last year. Thats how much money he lost falling out of the top spot. Also he would of been the top pick regardless of the surgury, last years draft was one of the weakest qb drafts and with the 49ers having the top pick Matt would've been the guy. well they screwed up because the #1 pick alex smith got 50 million last year, leinart @ #2 will probably get around 45 million. he played 12 games, math obviously doesnt work out.


ah......yes they do run a pro style offense, man and you have the gall to call me biased, their freaking coordinator who designed the offense is now A FREAKING OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR IN THE NFL! and what does that prove? if greg davis goes to the nfl next year, does that mean texas ran a pro-style offense? your proof is really bad, as the titans dont run usc's offense.



Oh, really my bias clearly shows........hmm.....what does this show

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18302&highlight=ROME

maybe that you don't know what your talking about again I'm a UT fan I have a freaking tatto, I love Vince and appreciate every thing he did for Texas, I'm just not biased and seperate college from the NFL and was making a case for Lienart because nobody else is and that proves there are bias and favortism towards Young because he's from Texas. this is such BS, i would hate to have a fan like u. you act like some honest unbiased fan but all you do is trash VY and praise all things matty did
USC lost the game on a 4th and 2 play, they would have won the game if they converted. Texas won the game when they stopped USC on 4th and 2, they would have lost if they didn't stop USC, Whichever way you want me to put it, there it is. there were over two 1/2 minutes left and texas had either 2 or 3 timeouts. the game was not over by any means. Vince won the game. stop it with that BS "USC lost it" trash,

and i already explained to you why no one wants matt

Ah...go look at just about every mock written in the country and most polls, they all have Matt ahead of Young.


I love it how yall can tell the future......again you have the gall to call me biased. what? every thing i posted was true. Leinart is slower *FACT*, weaker armed*FACT* gets rattled easier *FACT* he might be better than carr in another system, but not with our oline. and thats the point, use common sense.



WOW after reading your quotes I was thinking the exact same thing, I guess you can predict the future.

Now excuse me I have to run to KFC, before it closes to get some dinner. BB in 25 minutes KFC is for chumps get some wingstop, its where us national champs like to eat.

Carr Bombed
02-11-2006, 11:53 PM
Ohio state's secondary and LB crew is better than ours (the texans, especially their linebackers). i meant be objective as in dont sound like a total leinart homer. Im sorry but constantly saying "im a huge ut fan" and then constantly trashing texas dont go hand in hand.
Ah...your crazy if you think Ohio had a better defense than a Pro team. Also I would love for you to show me where I trashed Texas.......please show me and I'm not a leinart homer, I'm simply playing devils advocate and am asking why he isn't brought into the argument when his numbers are just as good and better in some cases and he did it over a longer period of time.

Texas did not have the countries best defense... usc scored 38
Yeah...maybe you should give USC some credit for accomplishing that. That isn't a knock against Texas, USC was just that good on offense.

USC's skill players are amazingly good. i mean try to downplay it all you want but they are exactly why USC was favored by over a TD. Texas had a much better defense and they were STILL 8 POINT UNDERDOGS. Texas had underclassmen at every skill position. Texas' skill players are also amazingly good, Texas just like USC has had the one of the highest ranking recruiting classes in the country over the past 5 years, maybe you should stop downplaying them. Also the reason why USC was favorites had more to do with the hype and the fact that they were the reining champions and the stigma that Brown couldn't win the big one. Also underclassmen doesn't mean anything all that matters is can you play or not, Texas has players that can play, Clerret as a Freshman lead Ohio to a national championship

well they screwed up because the #1 pick alex smith got 50 million last year, leinart @ #2 will probably get around 45 million. he played 12 games, math obviously doesnt work out.

There you go predicting the future again....you don't know how much Leinart is going to get paid, regardless by this quote you are now admitting that Leinart did give up millions to return. By your math 5 million dollars-thats alot of money.

and what does that prove? if greg davis goes to the nfl next year, does that mean texas ran a pro-style offense? your proof is really bad, as the titans dont run usc's offense.
Well Texas ran more of a pro offense before Vince took over, but they had to put him in a spread offense...so no. If you don't think USC ran a pro offense then you either didn't watch them play or your in denial and your ignoring the facts to support your argument. How about you go post a poll and ask the question which QB ran a pro offense Vince or Matt, then come back and tell me what the results were.

there were over two 1/2 minutes left and texas had either 2 or 3 timeouts. the game was not over by any means. Vince won the game. stop it with that BS "USC lost it" trash,

Wow you do know how to read don't you here let me post it again

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18302&highlight=ROME

I started a whole thread on this crap
By saying USC lost the game I mean Texas won and USC lost, stop trying to spin my words to support your views

and i already explained to you why no one wants matt.

Yeah nobody wants Matt he is only expected to be the first QB taken in the draft:rolleyes:

Leinart is slower *FACT*.

Speed is good to have, but its not a be all end all for QBs, you just have to have escapability and Matt has that, he is faster than Tom Brady, Manning, and Palmer, I guess those guys suck too.

weaker armed*FACT*.

I agree he has a weaker arm, but his arm is more than adequate and its not like Young's arm isn't in question, it goes both ways.

gets rattled easier *FACT*.

That is not a FACT and is your OPINION, one which I don't agree with by the way, Leinart showed more than once this year he can take a hit, handle pressure, and battle back. After suffering a mild concussion against ND he rallied his team and threw clutch passes on the run on key 4th down plays.

Against Texas where he was shaken up and dazed and was nearly knocked out before half time, he came back out and played lights out football, I believe the only incompletion he had was the last pass of the game as time was running out.

KFC is for chumps get some wingstop, its where us national champs like to eat.

I was stationed up here in Mich. and if we had a WINGSTOP it might be a option, but we don't. I would rather take Popeyes over KFC, but we don't have one of those either. We have KFC and Booger King and Ill gladly take KFC over Booger King.

Big B Texan Fan
02-11-2006, 11:58 PM
You guys are making me hungry

stevo3883
02-12-2006, 12:47 AM
-neither vince nor matt ran a pro-style offense

-saying what leinart will get paid isnt predicting the future, its called educated assumption. look at philip rivers contract. eli mannings. alex smith's.

-Matt being the 1st qb taken has more to do with the saints than with him being superior to vince. vince is by far the superior prospect, but some teams might not want to take the chance since he has that "raw" stigma.

-Leinart isnt nearly as good an athlete as carson palmer and is not as fast as brady. He has the footspeed of manning, ie- none

-Vince's arm isnt in question by anyone who has actually seen him play, not sure what you're talking about there.

-its common knowledge to get to usc u have to hit leinart in the mouth. saying he gets rattled easier than carr isnt much of a knock on him, as carr is one of the most resilient qb's ive ever seen. but ive seen matt shaken up badly multiple times.

-michigan is obviously an inferior state judging by their lack of wingstop

tulexan
02-12-2006, 12:51 AM
You also have to factor endorsements into the equation. Leinart coming off of a Heisman winning season, Rose Bowl MVP, and #1 pick probably would have earned some coin from sponsers.

Leinart may not be the fastest of QB's, but he is faster than Peyton Manning and is probably close to Brady. He had several rushing touchdowns this year, and if you watched USC play, a lot of them weren't goal line dives like in the Notre Dame game.

mexican_texan
02-12-2006, 12:57 AM
You also have to factor endorsements into the equation. Leinart coming off of a Heisman winning season, Rose Bowl MVP, and #1 pick probably would have earned some coin from sponsers.

Leinart may not be the fastest of QB's, but he is faster than Peyton Manning and is probably close to Brady. He had several rushing touchdowns this year, and if you watched USC play, a lot of them weren't goal line dives like in the Notre Dame game.
Even the cement-footed Drew Bledsoe had a rushing touchdown. I don't know if any of you remember, but Leinart was in a couple of SuperBowl commercials.

stevo3883
02-12-2006, 12:59 AM
You also have to factor endorsements into the equation. Leinart coming off of a Heisman winning season, Rose Bowl MVP, and #1 pick probably would have earned some coin from sponsers.

Leinart may not be the fastest of QB's, but he is faster than Peyton Manning and is probably close to Brady. He had several rushing touchdowns this year, and if you watched USC play, a lot of them weren't goal line dives like in the Notre Dame game.


i believe leinart was into negative rushing yards for the season...

tulexan
02-12-2006, 01:07 AM
He had 51 rushes for 36 yards and 6 touchdowns. I believe in college sacks go against rushing yards unlike the NFL where it goes against passing yards. So you have to take that into account too.

stevo3883
02-12-2006, 01:11 AM
ah yeah i knew it was either 36 or -36.

all i know is i heard so much stuff from usc fans about how VY couldnt run much better than matt, because he had 6 td's.

Carr Bombed
02-12-2006, 02:31 AM
-neither vince nor matt ran a pro-style offense.

Man wake up USC ran a pro-style offense.

http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/upcomingactionpreview/a/CFB1227_2.htm

"What makes this group most difficult to defend is that it can beat you in so many different ways. The Trojans have the nation's fourth-ranked rushing offense and fifth-ranked passing attack. The Trojans operate out of a traditional pro-style offense, employing a two-back, two-receiver, one-tight end personnel grouping as its base package. Their offense is led by one time Heisman trophy winner, (also a finalist this year), QB Matt Leinart (3,450 passing yards& a 27/7 TD/INT ratio), is allowed the freedom most NFL QBs are given in terms of play calling and checking off at the line of scrimmage."

and heres another article discussing a QB who played in the spread offense that Vince ran and how yet again Matt ran a Pro Style offense.

http://blogs.foxsports.com/sportstraveler/2005/12/16/Bust_a_Move_QB_Smith_not_getting_it_done_in_San_Fr ancisco

and here's another mention of USC's pro-style offense and how it might help USC's backup Matt Cassel get a job at the next level

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2005/modglin031005.htm

"Former Jets QB Ken O’Brien has developed a friendship with Cassel over time and is working with him nearly every day, fine-tuning his footwork, timing and release. Cassel is grateful for such mentoring. He is constantly throwing to Trojans receivers, running and working out with future draftees and hoping that his knowledge of USC’s complex, pro-style offense will only help his chances, slim as they may be. The tutelage he adhered to doesn’t hurt, either. Head coach Pete Carroll has pro head-coaching experience. Norm Chow, his offensive coordinator, recently moved up on the ladder to take the same title with the Titans."

and heres a profile of USC's right tackle who is expected to go high in the draft.....Why?, because he has three years of playing in a PRO-STYLE offense.

http://nfldraftblitz.com/Profiles/winstonjusticeprofile.htm

Do you want me to go on?

-saying what leinart will get paid isnt predicting the future, its called educated assumption. look at philip rivers contract. eli mannings. alex smith's.
Every contract is different and anything can happen like holdouts or whatever. Winslow istantly became the highest paid TE when he signed his rookie contract.

-Matt being the 1st qb taken has more to do with the saints than with him being superior to vince. vince is by far the superior prospect, but some teams might not want to take the chance since he has that "raw" stigma.

Young is the better athlete, but Matt is projected to be the better Quaterback prospect, because he is more of your prototypical pocket passer and the fact that he has ran a Pro-style offense for the past 3 years. He translates much better to the next level and that makes him a higher rated prospect.

-Leinart isnt nearly as good an athlete as carson palmer and is not as fast as brady. He has the footspeed of manning, ie- none.

Leinart is faster than Carson and accomplished more than he did at the college level. Carson has a stronger arm, but Matt has a more than adequate arm and he is as fast as Brady which isn't saying much, Brady's speed isn't much to brag about.

-Vince's arm isnt in question by anyone who has actually seen him play, not sure what you're talking about there.

I agree with you, I don't think Youngs arm is going to be a problem I was just saying there have been questions, I think he does need to straighten out the throwing motion just a tad.

-its common knowledge to get to usc u have to hit leinart in the mouth. saying he gets rattled easier than carr isnt much of a knock on him, as carr is one of the most resilient qb's ive ever seen. but ive seen matt shaken up badly multiple times.

Again thats your opinion, What I've seen from Matt he has done very well under pressure and has come back from being "hit in the mouth".

-michigan is obviously an inferior state judging by their lack of wingstop

I agree Michigan sucks, I hate it here, but duty calls and I won't be here forever, god I miss Texas women, laid back and easy going.

stevo3883
02-12-2006, 11:36 AM
please, show me one team that runs an offense even slightly similar to USC's.

to be a "pro-style offense" a pro team would have to run an offense like thiers. This cliche is stupid because there isnt an nfl team that runs a basic WCO like USC. USC runs a "pac-10 offense" not a "pro style offense"

Wolf
02-12-2006, 11:44 AM
huh?

are straws being grasped here?

I am lost after that statement

:confused:

tulexan
02-12-2006, 11:57 AM
How is USC's west coast offense different from any NFL teams west coast offense (except Atlanta doesn't run a true west coast offense, they run a hybrid offense because Vick can't handle it)?

Jack Bauer
02-12-2006, 12:23 PM
huh?

are straws being grasped here?

I am lost after that statement

:confused:

Exactly! I see straws being grasped for sure!

jerek
02-12-2006, 12:34 PM
My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.

I remember a time in which it took more than one season and championship game to declare a guy the Supreme Winner of all Winners. I am sure it had nothing to do with coaching or supporting cast or any of the other number of first day picks Vince had to work with. And nice nod against stats, by the way, it does after all make it possible for you and others to make blanket "always" statements regarding leadership and winning.

Face it until Vince comes to the NFL he will be a great college QB with potential at the pro level. Stop talking as if he has already gone 44-4 in his first three pro seasons. It not only sickens me but invalidates your arguments.

bigTEXan8
02-12-2006, 01:22 PM
Face it until Vince comes to the NFL he will be a great college QB with potential at the pro level. Stop talking as if he has already gone 44-4 in his first three pro seasons. It not only sickens me but invalidates your arguments.

Thank you!!! Look, as good as VY played in college, that doesn't mean he's going to be a good pro player. I still don't think he can play consistently under center. We all saw how well Alex Smith did translating into the NFL, well at least until he played the Texans' D.

infantrycak
02-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Ask infantrycak whether or not he thinks Peyton Manning is overpaid.

Yes.

aj.
02-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Speaking of overpaid, here's the Top 7 base salaries earned by QBs last season. This was real money paid to the player last season and is separate from bonuses. Of course it is influenced by where they are/were in their contract.

Drew Brees $8.07 million
Brett Favre $6.5
David Carr $5.5
Aaron Brooks $5.5
Joey Harrington $4.95
Trent Green $4.7
Donovan McNabb $4.0

J-Man
02-12-2006, 07:41 PM
Speaking of overpaid, here's the Top 7 base salaries earned by QBs last season. This was real money paid to the player last season and is separate from bonuses. Of course it is influenced by where they are/were in their contract.

Drew Brees $8.07 million
Brett Favre $6.5
David Carr $5.5
Aaron Brooks $5.5
Joey Harrington $4.95
Trent Green $4.7
Donovan McNabb $4.0

Intresting...how many of those guys are earning their money? 2 of 7, maybe? Probably the best dollar for preformance on that list is Trent Green (3 straight seasons of 4000+ yrds). McNabb is pushing that price for cost/benefit, but I suspect he will be better next year post the injury.