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BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 12:25 AM
Offseason Cap Saving Cuts

Tony Banks
Cory Bradford
Benny Joppru
Marcellus Rivers
Maron Norris
Tony Hollings
Steven McKinney
Todd Washington
Jerry Deloach
Junior Ioane
Trade Deshaun Polk
Troy Evans
Marco Coleman
Trade Philip Buchanon
Jason Simons
Ramond Walker
Gary Walker

Additions to install the new West coast offense and 43 defense

RB Edgerrin James
FB Shaun Bryson
C LeCharles Bentley
CB Nate Clements
FS Lance Shultzer
LB Will Weatherspoon
LB Cato June
DE Kyle Van Bosch
DE Robert Mathis

Draft

QB Vince Young
LB D'qwell Jackson
TE David Thomas
G Laitusi Lutui
DE Willie Evans
TE Cooper Wallace
T/G Troy Reddeck
WR Jared Ellerson
Plus 2 extra picks in 4 and 5
What do ya'll think of this plan?

Corrosion
02-08-2006, 01:12 AM
This ISNT MADDEN .....:ok:

Bubbajwp
02-08-2006, 01:54 AM
No way we could fit that under the cap.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 02:17 AM
We can do it with all the cuts I made.The only thing I have to say,is use your gears in the corners.This baby has the ba77s to do anything ya want.:coolb:

I can't wait see Kubiak crank her up and take her around the block.:redtowel:



Houston Texans To The Top ,,,,,,,,:trophy: :headbang:

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 10:10 AM
We can do it with all the cuts I made.The only thing I have to say,is use your gears in the corners.This baby has the ba77s to do anything ya want.:coolb:

I can't wait see Kubiak crank her up and take her around the block.:redtowel:



Houston Texans To The Top ,,,,,,,,:trophy: :headbang:

You'll be waiting a while for this plan to take place. It is next to impossible to have that big of a personnel turnover in one season, making all those cuts/trades will save a little cap room but not as much as you think, plus Gary Walker has to stay unless he retires because he is a huge cap hit to get rid of. That being the case, hopefully we can restructure his deal to make it cheaper for him to stay. Cutting all those people also means you have to find suitable replacements, and while cutting them alone saves money when you factor in that cap hit plus the cost of replacing them you're going to end up being about where you are anyways.
There is no way we sign Edgerrin or that he comes here. He is going to cost way more than we can fit under the cap, he won't come here, and we have solid RBs already. If you want a new RB, at least get Reggie Bush who is exceptionally fast and adds something new in that to the RB core.
There isn't any reason to sign Bryson.
LeCharles Bentley would be nice and I hope we get him, but unfortunately he said he wants a lot of money, wants to play for a winner, and has mentioned he would like to go home to Cleveland to play, so it is looking less likely that we can bring him here.
Nate Clements could also be a good pickup, but I don't see him coming here if he even hits the open market.
Lance Schulter doesn't make much sense either.
Will Witherspoon would be an ok acquisition, but I'm not sure he leaves Carolina and I don't see him coming here either, but I wouldn't have a problem with signing him.
Cato June doesn't make much sense.
Kyle Vanden Bosch is a good player but I think we could find a more useful guy in free agency.
Robert Mathis is a part-time DE and there is not much reason to get him, especially if we get Vanden Bosch too.

I'm not going to argue about drafting Vince, I think that would not be the best idea but ok.
I'm not very impressed with D'Qwell Jackson and I know we can do better in the draft, and if you want to bring in Witherspoon and June this pick makes no sense.
Lutui makes no sense at all for our offense and zone blocking.
David Thomas would be an ok choice for a TE.
I don't know why we'd draft a second TE in Cooper Wallace.
David Evans would be an option, but I don't think he's much if any improvement over what we have and what you're wanting to bring in.

Your plan is very unrealistic. It would not at all be possible with the salary cap, and you add a bunch of mid-level talent at a few positions that aren't really a big need for us. We need a lot of help on offensive line and other than signing Bentley and then drafting Lutui, which would be a horrible fit for our line, you don't address that at all. Drafting two TEs makes no sense at all. I also don't know where your additional 4th and 5th round picks come from, Buchanon might be able to get a 4th but Polk won't get anything in a trade. I also don't see us bringing in a west coast offense, that isn't Kubiak's style and you're also not bringing in the personnel to run one.

I applaud the time and effort but this is a really bad and unrealistic plan.

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 10:19 AM
Mork this is one of those scenarious were you have to include drafting Marquez Bean and Corbin Williams. They will turn this team around especially if we go with this plan.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 10:27 AM
Mork this is one of those scenarious were you have to include drafting Marquez Bean and Corbin Williams. They will turn this team around especially if we go with this plan.

That would be a sweet deal, I'd be willing to give up David Carr to get the top 2 picks in the draft for those guys, and they'd be worth the $100 million combined salary.

66cobra
02-08-2006, 11:44 AM
Morknolle and cadahnic,
I usually am pretty knowledgeable about college players, but I must be having a brain freeze. Who are Marquez Bean and Corbin Williams? I tried to Google them but no results on the first page for them.

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 11:51 AM
sorry cobra that is an inside joke referring to these two guys that came up on a Madden franchise season we played. They were both rated 99 as rookies, it was like a weird glitch but they were the greatest players ever.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 12:03 PM
Morknolle and cadahnic,
I usually am pretty knowledgeable about college players, but I must be having a brain freeze. Who are Marquez Bean and Corbin Williams? I tried to Google them but no results on the first page for them.

Cada is right, we had a Madden franchise together back in the day and these two guys (were uploaded from the NCAA game) came into the league as easily the best CB and DE in the game. In case you're interested, this is how good they were:
I don't remember for sure anymore and would have to look it up, but Bean was a 6'3", 215 lb. CB with 99 speed, agility, and acceleration, 78 catching, 68 tackling, 72 strength, and he could return kicks. Corbin was a 6'7" 285 lb. DE with 89 speed, 97 strength, 82 agility and I think 95 acceleration. The two of them were beasts and produced several productive seasons on there (Bean had seasons in the range of 11-18 INTs per year and Corbin was always in the 19-32 sack range), but they demanded like $12-13 million a season when they entered the league so they drained the cap quite a bit.

That aside, I can't believe I actually just listed the attributes for guys on Madden, so back to the real NFL.

whiskeyrbl
02-08-2006, 12:37 PM
Boy let me tell ya we have alot of dead weight overpaid players that we can't even trade.Maybe we could package Coleman/Walker/Deloach and see if there are any takers,hell for future draft picks if that is all we could get.We could ease the cap a lil' there.Some additions we could look at are ,S Tank Williams,OLB Peterson SF or Witherspoon CAR,DE Wright BAL,WR antonio Bryant CLE,and C Flannagan GB. I would flat out cut Banks,Bradford,and Hollings,and maybe Evans but he is pretty good on SP team.In the Draft I would go this way:
#1 Bush RB USC ( the versatility of this player is hard to ignore)
#2Colledge OT Boise St.( Solid LT could move Pitts over to LG)
#3a Nick Mangold C Ohio ST(Get Flannagan and groom 1/2 yrs.)
#3b Johnathon Joseph CB South Carolia ( Ball hawk,Heavy Hitter, Dunta clone,groom1/2 a year hope PBuc having decent year,Trade PBuc insert here)
#4 Elvis Dumerville DE Louisville( Solid player lots of upside)
#5 Settestrom OG Minn (groom while we figure how to get rid of Wade)
#6 Thomas TE TX( good hands,will go across the middle)
#7 Eric Meyer QB E.Washington( Strong arm reads D well picks up Blitzs well,Quality QB)
well what cha think

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 12:44 PM
Dont like College or Dumerville, but if the rest happend I would not argue, not sure on your FA acquisitions, but would not argue either each has been productive in this league. Joseph would be the steal of the draft btw. Pitts is a better T than G and Dumerville is a perfect 34OLB or Strongside OLB in a 4-3. The guy is only 5'11" and there are some quesitons about his top end potential. I could see the pick and in the 4th he is value, but I would likely rather someone else.

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 12:49 PM
whiskey this would be my thought without the FA acquisitions. Obviously we trade down.

1. Mario Williams DE NCST (anchors the D-line and improves pass rush and run support)
2a Eric Winston LT Miami (most versatile OT in the draft)
2b Nick Mangold C/G OST ( starts at LG/RG depending on cuts)
3a Jonathan Joseph CB USC (everything you said)
3b Maurice Stovall WR ND (not sure he will fall this far, but if he does we have to take him)
4. Rocky McIntosh MLB Miami (a Vilma-esque type LB)
5. T.J. Williams or David Thomas TE (we need a TE and this is great value)
6. Marcus Maxey FS Miami (a ballhawk FS who enjoys hitting)
7. Meyer or McNeil QB/WR (like meyer dont know much about him, McNeil is just an athlete)

whiskeyrbl
02-08-2006, 12:53 PM
I LIke that one,only one thing is McIntosh,We have so many LBs,and with Polk and Orr looking promising ,Wong coming back and signing Greenwood last year I would have to go Oline in that spotor maybe a ballhawk S.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 12:57 PM
whiskey this would be my thought without the FA acquisitions. Obviously we trade down.

1. Mario Williams DE NCST (anchors the D-line and improves pass rush and run support)
2a Eric Winston LT Miami (most versatile OT in the draft)
2b Nick Mangold C/G OST ( starts at LG/RG depending on cuts)
3a Jonathan Joseph CB USC (everything you said)
3b Maurice Stovall WR ND (not sure he will fall this far, but if he does we have to take him)
4. Rocky McIntosh MLB Miami (a Vilma-esque type LB)
5. T.J. Williams or David Thomas TE (we need a TE and this is great value)
6. Marcus Maxey FS Miami (a ballhawk FS who enjoys hitting)
7. Meyer or McNeil QB/WR (like meyer dont know much about him, McNeil is just an athlete)

I like this idea and it is pretty similar to one I had posted recently. I think Jonathan Joseph shuold be a good CB but there might be other better ones that slip that far. Stovall would be nice, but I think the team will go with a TE somewhere in the 1st day, so maybe one of the top few slips down. I've also been studying up some and am beginning to really like T.J. Williams too, although we could most likely still get him in the 4th. I like getting a possession WR like Stovall or another big guy like that, but I'm not sure how high they'll look for one. Rocky McIntosh or Anthony Schlegel from Ohio St. would be nice later round MLBs, and we could probably get one of them in the 5th and grab a FS in the 4th, maybe Bullocks from Nebraska. Reggie McNeal or Michael Robinson in the 6th or 7th would be interesting, as either could convert to WR but still be a backup QB and used in trick plays like Antwan Randle El.

I LIke that one,only one thing is McIntosh,We have so many LBs,and with Polk and Orr looking promising ,Wong coming back and signing Greenwood last year I would have to go Oline in that spotor maybe a ballhawk S.

I agree, I think we could go for a FS in the 4th. We do need a true MLB though, Polk is about the only one on our team and I don't think he's really all that good and don't think he's a long-term solution at all, but McIntosh or Schlegel should be around in the 5th. Wong has played MLB before but I think he is better at OLB, and Greenwood definitely should not be at MLB.

66cobra
02-08-2006, 12:59 PM
first of all, regarding the Bean and Williams players, dang!!!!!! I can see why you would want them to be real.

Anyway, back to the "real" NFL, I like cada's draft alot; I really like Stovall at WR, but I think a more feasible pick (I doubt he falls that far) would be Anthony Fasano, TE or even Klopfenstein, TE from Colorado, in a later round.

Oops, I didn't see you picking TE in the 5th round, but I still stand by my above statement and take BPA OL at that point.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 01:18 PM
The reason for all this thinking is because this play is for a Championship only.You don't go this plan if not planning on winning.As for the Linemen,there 2 of the best guard prospects in the draft.As far as the draft goes that can all be changed.The reason I got rid of 2 TEs 2 RBs and add from the draft is to upgrade and look for players that can catch and do more then what were getting from what we have.It also puts them in the rookie cap bracket which has its own ceiling.Not only that either but were not only dumping cap,were getting the players that fit into the new 43 defense.Why carry players that don't fit when for the same price we could get the right players.You say we have plenty of runners but Wells and Davis are really all we have proven worth keeping.I want to see the roster flipped and new players brought in to get us on the right track.We need cover LBers on the outside and these 2 LBers have proven they can get it done. The 2 DE come from the system we want to run and that would instantly give stability to the defense.I don't want to see Kubiak fail but if he listens to Morknolle then well lose next year also.We have a new coach we need a new additude and enough playmakers to change things around.It may not have to be the players above but, we can slip under the radar and grab players like Amaad Green and Alan Kampman for mid level and structure there new contracts to our advantage.These players give us the flexability to to man up.Why pay veteran salary to retrain Veterans when they will be gone before they ever make any use for us,when we can train rookie that will be here a decade.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 01:35 PM
The reason for all this thinking is because this play is for a Championship only.You don't go this plan if not planning on winning.As for the Linemen,there 2 of the best guard prospects in the draft.As far as the draft goes that can all be changed.The reason I got rid of 2 TEs 2 RBs and add from the draft is to upgrade and look for players that can catch and do more then what were getting from what we have.It also puts them in the rookie cap bracket which has its own ceiling.Not only that either but were not only dumping cap,were getting the players that fit into the new 43 defense.Why carry players that don't fit when for the same price we could get the right players.You say we have plenty of runners but Wells and Davis are really all we have proven worth keeping.I want to see the roster flipped and new players brought in to get us on the right track.We need cover LBers on the outside and these 2 LBers have proven they can get it done. The 2 DE come from the system we want to run and that would instantly give stability to the defense.I don't want to see Kubiak fail but if he listens to Morknolle then well lose next year also.We have a new coach we need a new additude and enough playmakers to change things around.It may not have to be the players above but, we can slip under the radar and grab players like Amaad Green and Alan Kampman for mid level and structure there new contracts to our advantage.These players give us the flexability to to man up.Why pay veteran salary to retrain Veterans when they will be gone before they ever make any use for us,when we can train rookie that will be here a decade.

I understand what you're trying to build and applaud your lofty expectations for our team, but unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that your plan is economically impossible with a salary cap, and a lot of these picks would not help the team at all and you still ignore improving the OLine with players that fit.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 01:53 PM
Morknolle,Figure this plan up using the supplied above cap chart and tell me what the saving will be,,,,? I got about 23 million with cap rising to 95 million.Basicly around 70 million and that why i took the time to unload overpriced Gray Walker that don't fit in the new system anyway.Its another reason i traded Philips 1 million contract and snagged a solid cover CB for maybe 2 million more.


You know that when signing FA a solid player can be had and even signing bonuses can be Pro Rated.We will have as much, mostlikely more cap then most teams to pick up a few solid veterans.Now with the money saved we can plug in a veteran unit with a head start and draft our future thru the draft..

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 02:07 PM
There no since in paying Veteran money for players to teach them a new system.There also is no since in paying low money for players that arn't getting it done.I would rather pay 2 mil more and get someone to shut something down for us.I would also want to pay low to train players that i know will be able to get done in the future while they learn.I believe that it all starts in the front office and trickles down.I saved players loike Payne because I believe this team has a shot and a Championship with some solid personal moves this next year 2006.

I didn't have the numbers till monday so i have a lot of work to do re-adjusting the roster and going with improving youth.These old dogs arn't worth teaching new tricks..

infantrycak
02-08-2006, 02:13 PM
Offseason Cap Saving Cuts

Tony Banks
Cory Bradford
Benny Joppru
Marcellus Rivers
Maron Norris
Tony Hollings
Steven McKinney
Todd Washington
Jerry Deloach
Junior Ioane
Trade Deshaun Polk
Troy Evans
Marco Coleman
Trade Philip Buchanon
Jason Simons
Ramond Walker
Gary Walker

What do ya'll think of this plan?

This part of y'all thinks it ain't happening.

Here are the cap effects:

Banks 443 k
Bradford UFA=0
Joppru 45k
Rivers UFA=0
Norris 248k
Hollings 221k
McKinney 3.1M
Washington 497k
DeLoach 178k
Ioane 448k
Polk UFA=0 and can't trade
Evans UFA=0
Coleman -727k (costs money to get rid of him)
Buchanon 800k
Simmons 448k
Walker, Ramon UFA=0
Walker, Gary -3.36 M (gotta love paying for the privilege of sending your best DL player down the road)

So the plan is to get rid of 17 guys, at least 10 of which saw significant play time, and have a cap savings of $2.34 million dollars? Somehow that just doesn't seem like the Texans will go that route.

Realistic guys who might be let go and the Texans save some cap room (this would actually save $4.7M):

Hollings 221k--personally, I'd like to see what the new staff thinks of him.
McKinney 3.1M--not saying he will be let go, but his play is not up to his salary
Washington 497k--seems particularly ill suited to a Denver style scheme
Ioane 448k--we will have a surplus of DT's in a 4-3
Simmons 448k--will always be on the bubble competing with rookie CB's, but versatile

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Infantry good work on that, but I'm not sure where you're getting the figures at. Off of the list we posted in this thread, I get the following cap saves:
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16789

Tony Banks - saves 850k (1.256M to keep, 406k to cut) It would save money and he's not overly good, no problem cutting.
Cory Bradford - costs 0 (UFA) - He should have been cut a coule months ago.
Benny Joppru - saves 460k - I think he's worth keeping for his last year and see what he can do if healthy.
Marcellus Rivers - costs 0 (UFA) - I wouldn't mind resigning him for about what he was getting, but he could be released.
Maron Norris - saves 454k - I don't see the point in cutting him, he's a solid blocking FB and not overly expensive.
Tony Hollings - saves 460k - I don't see why we would keep him, hasn'taccomplished anything and better players in front of him.
Steven McKinney - saves 3.9M - In my mind he better take a huge pay cut if he wants to stay, no problems axing him.
Todd Washington - saves 670k - He's a solid backup and you won't find anything better for this cheap, he stays.
Jerry Deloach - saves 373k - Not much need for him after switching to a 4-3.
Junior Ioane - saves 439k - Also not much need after switching to a 4-3.
Trade Deshaun Polk - UFA - would have to resign to trade and take that cap hit, and I doubt you even get a 7th rounder for him.
Troy Evans - costs 0 (RFA) - Not much reason for him to stay.
Marcus Coleman - saves 529k - He should be cut on principle after how bad he played last year, trade him if we can get anything.
Trade Philip Buchanon - costs 0 - Not sure how much you can get for him now, maybe a 5th or send with Coleman for a 4th.
Jason Simons - saves 564k - Not especially good so not much point in keeping him.
Ramon Walker - costs 0 - No reason to keep him.
Gary Walker - costs $1.518M to ax - I don't really like him that much but that's a decent hit for getting rid of him, at least cutting/trading Payne would save you 540k and they have about equal value on the field.

Additions to install the new West coast offense and 43 defense

The West Coast offense isn't happening, the 4-3 defense is.

Your proposed cuts/trades would save us an additional $7.2M in cap space this year, plus some of those I don't agree with. For saving that 7.2M, you are losing 17 players that you have to replace, which only gives us $423k per player to replace them, so you're going to have to get some really crappy guys to replace them in order to save any money on the whole process. Even not considering replacing those guys, $7.2M in cap space would barely cover Edgerrin James, or it might get you LeCharles Bentley and Will Witherspoon if we can land those guys. We do have some more cap room already, but a decent amount of that will be used up on rookies, especially if we stay at the #1 pick, and we need to keep a little cap room available in case we need to make a couple other roster moves down the road. I still don't like several of your draft picks too.

RB Edgerrin James
FB Shaun Bryson
C LeCharles Bentley
CB Nate Clements
FS Lance Shultzer
LB Will Weatherspoon
LB Cato June
DE Kyle Van Bosch
DE Robert Mathis

Draft

QB Vince Young
LB D'qwell Jackson
TE David Thomas
G Laitusi Lutui
DE Willie Evans
TE Cooper Wallace
T/G Troy Reddeck
WR Jared Ellerson
Plus 2 extra picks in 4 and 5
What do ya'll think of this plan?

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 02:25 PM
Infantry I would like to add Deloach, Coleman, and Banks to that list. I honestly think these guys are gone also. We have four top DTs and with regular switching they will remain fresh and relatively injury free, plus the kid with the two sacks from the Arizona game can stay he is really cheap. That brings the savings to 6.048M. When you look at that kind of savings dont know about you but I see a nice deal for LeCharles Bentley and a possible younger FS like maybe Chris Hope or Sam Brandon.

infantrycak
02-08-2006, 02:35 PM
Infantry good work on that, but I'm not sure where you're getting the figures at. Off of the list we posted in this thread, I get the following cap saves:
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16789
*Updating in progress*

No offense, but I use the hpf.com salary cap worksheet as after aj stopped maintaining his cap info I have found it to be consistantly the most accurate.

Cad--I could see DeLoach and Banks gone. I am dubious the Texans will pay to get rid of Coleman, but could be. I think your projected savings missed the negative on Coleman--it is actually more expensive to the cap to cut him next year than to keep him.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 02:37 PM
I already figured this out ,,,can't some go back and just figure a close estimate on where we sit with all of these cuts....And the ZEROS ARE VET SALARIES we can replace with rookie minumum...the rookie cap wi9ll be no more then 5 million i wouldn't think..:ok:

Just moving McKinney, will only be off Signing LeCharles a mil or 2.

Hey,were getting there and installing fits so the team will click!

infantrycak
02-08-2006, 02:39 PM
I already figured this out ,,,can't some go back and just figure a close estimate on where we sit with all of these cuts....And the ZEROS ARE VET SALARIES we can replace with rookie minumum...the rookie cap wi9ll be no more then 5 million i wouldn't think..:ok:

The zeros are not vet salaries off the projected 2006 cap spreadsheet--they are players who haven't been figured in at all and new players will have to be added at least at minimum salary to replace them.

2006 Cap Worksheet (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html)

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 02:40 PM
No offense, but I use the hpf.com salary cap worksheet as after aj stopped maintaining his cap info I have found it to be consistantly the most accurate.

Cad--I could see DeLoach and Banks gone. I am dubious the Texans will pay to get rid of Coleman, but could be. I think your projected savings missed the negative on Coleman--it is actually more expensive to the cap to cut him next year than to keep him.

yeah you are right hit the addition instead of the subtraction. either way I would look to maybe package McKinney, Coleman, and Player X to the Cowboys for anything I could get. Parcells likes Coleman and needs line help. Both players would be veterans at spots he needs. Maybe just maybe we could sucker them into a 4 or 5th pick.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 02:47 PM
No offense, but I use the hpf.com salary cap worksheet as after aj stopped maintaining his cap info I have found it to be consistantly the most accurate.

Cad--I could see DeLoach and Banks gone. I am dubious the Texans will pay to get rid of Coleman, but could be. I think your projected savings missed the negative on Coleman--it is actually more expensive to the cap to cut him next year than to keep him.

HoustonProFootball is where I got those salary cap figures from. I think on your calculations you subtracted their allocated bonus pay from their salary, but if they are signed for more than one remaining year more than just one year's worth of their allocated bonus will count against our cap, so that changes the figures some. It looks like you also just subtracted their allocated bonus from their base salary, but that allocated bonus also counts against the cap if they stay, so that also alters the total savings from what you calculated.

infantrycak
02-08-2006, 02:59 PM
Your proposed cuts/trades would save us an additional $7.2M in cap space this year, plus some of those I don't agree with. For saving that 7.2M, you are losing 17 players that you have to replace, which only gives us $423k per player to replace them, so you're going to have to get some really crappy guys to replace them in order to save any money on the whole process. Even not considering replacing those guys, $7.2M in cap space would barely cover Edgerrin James, or it might get you LeCharles Bentley and Will Witherspoon if we can land those guys.

Oops--I screwed up my numbers. Let's go with yours. The conclusion is the same--you don't cut 17 players in order to save $7.2 mil. Selected cuts will undoubtedly be in order, but not wholesale slaughter.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 03:07 PM
Oops--I screwed up my numbers. Let's go with yours. The conclusion is the same--you don't cut 17 players in order to save $7.2 mil. Selected cuts will undoubtedly be in order, but not wholesale slaughter.

Agreed, as I posted that only gives you a little over $400k per guy to replace each of them, and you're not going to get much talent for that, much less having money left over to chase free agents. It also is not a wise idea to have that much turnover in one offseason, even though we are changing systems if 1/3 of the team is gone then it could lower team morale and will take longer for the new team to gel together since there are so many new faces. I am up for cutting some of the guys that didn't play well (Marcus Coleman, still saves us a little money although not much, but he still doesn't deserve to play here anymore IMO, Steve McKinney had said on the radio a while ago he'd take a pay cut to stay, so he better take a big one otherwise we can release him and save over $3 million, and he wasn't playing very well anyways. Banks I could see replacing, it will cost about that much if not a little more to bring in another veteran, but Banks isn't very good anymore and I'd be willing to make that switch (he basically lost the 49ers game for us this year). Some of the other guys (Ramon Walker etc.) aren't especially good but aren't real expensive, but we can probably still find late draft picks or even other free agents (undrafted or veterans) that are better and will cost the same, and then guys like Ioane and DeLoach are likely gone since we're switching to a 4-3 and don't need 7-8 DTs on the roster. I could see cutting Walker or Payne too and keeping one of the cheaper guys. Walker costs more to get rid of than keep, getting rid of Payne would save us about $500k, and both are approximately the same skill level on the field, although Walker seems like a guy that ruffles a lot of feathers among the players, so they could take the hit to get him out of the locker room. It will cost them against the cap this year but save money in the long run.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Savings
Tony Banks 850,000
Cory Bradford 821,000
Benny Joppru 450,000
Marcelles Rivers 580,000
Maron Norris 440,000
Tony Hollins 440,000
Steven McKinney 3,900,000
Todd Washington 670,000
Jerry DeLoach 350,000
DeShaun Polk 699,000
Troy Evans 656,000
Marco Coleman 450,000
Philip Buchanon 806,000
Jason Simons 550,000
Ramon Walker 500,000
Then you take Gary Walkers 2,000,000 charge just to release him because we can only carry 3 DTs and the future is where were heading..All the vet will be replaced with 43 and offensive fits..I kept a frew Vets like Bruener and Gaffeny but that could give us even more room of you guys feel we have a better way.Also we can line Tyson Walters up as a blocking TE,He has experence there. Then we draft our future and go to work.A team can't survive for ever losing..:trophy:

We can get solid players for the system in FA and draft IMPACT!

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 03:12 PM
Savings
Tony Banks 850,000
Cory Bradford 821,000
Benny Joppru 450,000
Marcelles Rivers 580,000
Maron Norris 440,000
Tony Hollins 440,000
Steven McKinney 3,900,000
Todd Washington 670,000
Jerry DeLoach 350,000
DeShaun Polk 699,000
Troy Evans 656,000
Marco Coleman 450,000
Philip Buchanon 806,000
Jason Simons 550,000
Ramon Walker 500,000
Then you take Gary Walkers 2,000,000 charge just to release him..All the vet will be replaced with 43 fits...Then we draft our future and go to work.A team can't survive for ever losing..:trophy:

Your figures are inaccurate, some of these guys are not under contract for next year anyways so it doesn't save us any additional money to let them go. The figures I posted in that other thread that I linked from here are their estimated salary cap numbers for next year, so your calculated savings should be based off of those numbers (as opposed to their salaries this year since base salaries vary from year to year) to figure how much money you'll save on next year's cap by cutting these players.

Again, here are the savings off of next year's cap for getting rid of these guys:

Tony Banks - saves 850k - It would save money and he's not overly good, no problem cutting.
Cory Bradford - costs 0 (UFA) - He should have been cut a coule months ago.
Benny Joppru - saves 460k - I think he's worth keeping for his last year and see what he can do if healthy.
Marcellus Rivers - costs 0 (UFA) - I wouldn't mind resigning him for about what he was getting, but he could be released.
Maron Norris - saves 454k - I don't see the point in cutting him, he's a solid blocking FB and not overly expensive.
Tony Hollings - saves 460k - I don't see why we would keep him, hasn'taccomplished anything and better players in front of him.
Steven McKinney - saves 3.9M - In my mind he better take a huge pay cut if he wants to stay, no problems axing him.
Todd Washington - saves 670k - He's a solid backup and you won't find anything better for this cheap, he stays.
Jerry Deloach - saves 373k - Not much need for him after switching to a 4-3.
Junior Ioane - saves 439k - Also not much need after switching to a 4-3.
Trade Deshaun Polk - UFA - would have to resign to trade and take that cap hit, and I doubt you even get a 7th rounder for him.
Troy Evans - costs 0 (RFA) - Not much reason for him to stay.
Marcus Coleman - saves 529k - He should be cut on principle after how bad he played last year, trade him if we can get anything.
Trade Philip Buchanon - costs 0 - Not sure how much you can get for him now, maybe a 5th or send with Coleman for a 4th.
Jason Simons - saves 564k - Not especially good so not much point in keeping him.
Ramon Walker - costs 0 - No reason to keep him.
Gary Walker - costs us $1.518M to ax - I don't really like him that much but that's a decent hit for getting rid of him, at least cutting/trading Payne would save you 540k and they have about equal value on the field.

Again, you save $7.2M against next year's cap by cutting these 17 players, meaning to break even on this process you will have to sign guys to fill these 17 roster spots for an average salary of $400,000 per year in order to have any more money available for signing free agents, that is not going to work out.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 03:26 PM
Yes then you take where the cap sits after the cuts and the cap increase and what do you come up with?



We take and remove the rookie cap of 5 mil and split the rest in half and thats what we use to pick up 10 FA a few impact and the rest solid starters that fit the system and give Kubiak options...Rosters spots will be accounted for,,,,,,,the rest we save for June cuts and UDFA and camp,,ending 3 or 4 below cap for emergency purposes.......Vince Young will be a lure to players interested...IHe's going to be a GREAT LEADER our team will believe in..

cadahnic
02-08-2006, 03:31 PM
Blue you have six players on that list that are going to be looking for serious money. James, Bentley, VandenBosch, Witherspoon, Clements, and June. These guys all had good years and three were on deep playoff teams. James, Clements, and Bentley you should be thinking close to 4-6M average per year. Then you put 4 other 2-4M average per years with them. We are in cap trouble right there. Does that not put us 3M over your suggested cap figure.

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 03:35 PM
Yes then you take where the cap sits after the cuts and the cap increase and what do you come up with?

We take and remove the rookie cap of 5 mil and split the rest in half and thats what we use to pick up 10 FA a few impact and the rest solid starters that fit the system and give Kubiak options...Rosters spots will be accounted for,,,,,,,the rest we save for June cuts and UDFA and camp,,ending 3 or 4 below cap for emergency purposes.......Vince Young will be a lure to players interested...IHe's going to be a GREAT PLAYER our team will believe in..


We don't know what the salary cap will be next year, somewhere around $92-95 million is the projected. Making all your proposed cuts will bring us around $77 million, so we have $15-18 to work with. We will have 8 rookies coming in that we will need to sign, and the #1 pick is going to count $6-9 million against our cap depending on what their base salary is for their rookie year, so that leaves us with anywhere from $6 million-12 million left. With that remaining amount, we have to sign 7 rookies which will likely cost about $4-6 million against the cap for next year, leaving at most $6 million left in which we have to fill the rest of those roster spots you opened up (17 spots - 8 draft picks leaves at least 9 spots left to fill), so after filling those with capable players we're going to only have a $2-4 million cushion at the most, and we need to maintain a little gap in case guys get injured during the year and we have to sign more players, and for things like that. We can cut a few guys after the June deadline so their cap hit will be carried out over two years, but that still doesn't save us much more money, so there is definitely not money available for guys like Edgerrin James, we could find room for someone useful like LeCharles Bentley or maybe Nate Clements, but that's probably about it.

I realize Vince should be a good, if not great, player, but I really don't see us drafting him being any kind of magnets for free agents to come in here and take less money to play here. A more likely candidate for that would be Reggie Bush or D'Brickashaw Ferguson that can make an immediate impact and make this a competitive team, rather than a QB that is going to see limited action for 1-2 years.

whiskeyrbl
02-08-2006, 03:40 PM
Sorry but Bruener is a Million Dollar Bust,let him go.We have Rivers who looked decent last year,and the jury is still out on Joppru,i would use the 5th or 6th rd pick to p/u a solid TE.Gaffney i would keep as long as he doesn't want a mil or 2 to stay.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 03:41 PM
Thanks Morknolle,I use to have a friend "Voice From Above" that that help me but they closed the site..

Lets get started:stirpot:

MorKnolle
02-08-2006, 03:43 PM
Sorry but Bruener is a Million Dollar Bust,let him go.We have Rivers who looked decent last year,and the jury is still out on Joppru,i would use the 5th or 6th rd pick to p/u a solid TE.Gaffney i would keep as long as he doesn't want a mil or 2 to stay.

I have mixed feelings on Bruener, he's old and not very fast, but he has ok hands and is still the premier blocking TE in the NFL. Also my cap estimation from a post ago does not include having to fill additional roster spots from free agents that we are losing (in my estimation of our cap figure I didn't include the salaries of any of these guys that aren't under contract), so that's additional roster spots that we will have to refill or less money available if we resign some of them.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 03:49 PM
MorKnolle,I though the rookie cap had a perimeter on a rookie class.I though the cap to sign these players would only count what that cap is set at?

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 04:01 PM
Yes Bruener may be a casulty but we can also use a OT as Blocking TE so that's really irrelevant to the decision on him.Its going to be tough but in the End we won't look stupid and can shut some teams down,bringing our ranks up in ever area..That is the first goal,and to do that we need 43 players on the field.I'm hoping some of the LBers we have can play major rolls on this team till we get thru the transition...Also the Vet Cap figures need to be incluided because there the ones going to fill the spots with a starting unit that can holde water the rest are upgrades....Why resign vets that don't fit when we can use that 650,000 to sign solid 43 starters...As for carring contracts into next year by waiting til June may be a way but I don't really like that idea.It will handcuff us from making adjustments and upgrade if need be..I would like to see Walkers space right on top of our flexability next year..They need to get the bargoning agreement in place or it will ruin football.....

The main thing is liquidating some money so Gary has a chance to improve the team..

infantrycak
02-08-2006, 04:10 PM
We will have 8 rookies coming in that we will need to sign, and the #1 pick is going to count $6-9 million against our cap depending on what their base salary is for their rookie year, so that leaves us with anywhere from $6 million-12 million left. With that remaining amount, we have to sign 7 rookies which will likely cost about $4-6 million against the cap for next year

Our rookie pool isn't going to be as high as that I don't think. In 2004 San Diego had a total rookie pool of $6.024M and in 2005 San Francisco (with 11 picks) had a rookie pool of $6.168M. All of our rookies are going to have to fit in a pool under $7 mil. Whoever the #1 pick is their pool hit will probably be for a prorated portion of a $20 mil signing bonus on a 5 year contract, so $4 mil plus league minimum as a base salary so a cap hit of around $4.3 mil.

BlueThunder
02-08-2006, 04:32 PM
And as for Edgerrin James,LeCharles Bentley they sound good but adding 2 DE 2 cover LBs for the 43 ande a Strong secondary is more important then big name big time players..We may,like said weight things out,,Maybe even draft a RB early or late......Maybe end up with a Tommy Polly or Al Singleton ..Its not unuasal to see 4 quality RBs in a back field on a team....Championship teams usually do.......


RB Amaud Green
DE Al Kampman