PDA

View Full Version : Buck Harvey gets it, hopefully the Texans will as well.


TexansFight
02-07-2006, 10:12 AM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

Marcus
02-07-2006, 10:18 AM
TexansFight, it is 'fans' like you that will eventually lead me to root against the Texans.

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 10:23 AM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

Anyone out there REALLY think that VY puts football ahead of his faith? Just curious.

I really don't know how to respond to this thread.

Wharton
02-07-2006, 10:25 AM
As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB.

I am not a Carr supporter by any means but as far as the above statement is concerned, Carr's order is correct. God & Family come first, football second.

Oh, and Marcus, if another fan can get you to go against the Texans, then good riddance to ya.

kbourda
02-07-2006, 10:27 AM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.


Buddy, you just walked in the land where Carr can do no wrong and nothing is his fault. Boy are you about to be flamed!

profan
02-07-2006, 10:28 AM
Well, i don't fault carr for putting faith and family first. This can still be done in addition to putting in the necessary hours of work and overtime. I think it's time for you to find a new team to support and if you go against the texans because the qb is committed to his faith and family, then, it's good to see you leaving the texans fan base.

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 10:31 AM
Buddy, you just walked in the land where Carr can do no wrong and nothing is his fault. Boy are you about to be flamed!

This has nothing to do with Carr. My problem is with the statement (same as Porky used, hmmm...) that Carr puts family and faith first. If a person puts his career ahead of his faith or his family, there is something wrong with his priorities IMHO.

Marcus
02-07-2006, 10:33 AM
2004 - Sean Taylor is God!
2005 - Derrick Johnson is God!
2006 - Reggie . . errr . . Vince Young is God!

I get it already! :ok:

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 10:39 AM
Marcus, you have to be the biggest VY hater and Carr apologist on any board I've seen.

Please change your avatar before you start making me hate one of my favorite albums of all time. ;)

bigTEXan8
02-07-2006, 10:41 AM
It is possible for people to work in a business while putting family and faith infront of their jobs. I've seen it with people on a local level, where I live, and on a national level.

Big B Texan Fan
02-07-2006, 10:42 AM
Yea, he couldnot even get the ball in an area 20 yards wide and 60 yards away, 2/3 were out of bounds by 10 yards.
Yea, and Bush couldn't even get on the field when the game was on the line. This happened on more than one occasion. See the ND game when Leinert QB sneaked it 2 playes in a row or a few plays earlier when it was 4th and 9. Where was he then.....well just like you said, out of bounds (a.k.a. on the bench). Don't even get me started on the UT game either, he was the change of pace back where Fatboy was the feature back. Yeah, let's draft Bush, I wouldn't mind going 5-11 on average for the next 3 years until we let carrs' option desintergrate and draft another kid from CA. Lets just move the F@#%$ team to CA while we're at it. We can called the LA Earthquakes cuz watching us lose game after game will cause the fans to want throw the team in one.

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 10:43 AM
Wow, incredible if you believe for a minute that any athlete in the NFL puts football above their family.

Fighting Blue Hen
02-07-2006, 10:47 AM
Marcus, you have to be the biggest VY hater and Carr apologist on any board I've seen.

Please change your avatar before you start making me hate one of my favorite albums of all time. ;)

lol:

Texan Asylum
02-07-2006, 10:52 AM
As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB.

I hope ALL people would be that way. Football, or any other sport or profession for that matter, is TRIVIAL compared to GOD and FAMILY.

I know you probably didn't intend for THAT to come out like it sounded. :)

the wonger need food
02-07-2006, 10:53 AM
TexansFight, it is 'fans' like you that will eventually lead me to root against the Texans.

Now you're not a "fan" if you don't have a man-crush on Davie Franchise. Funny stuff.

Dr. Toro
02-07-2006, 10:57 AM
I don't think "family and faith" is an issue with Carr. God bless him for having priorities and not being married to the job. The issue is whether or not he puts in the requisite hours to get the job done.

I don't really care whether a guy studies film like Manning or sleeps at the office like Gruden. You can be Bob Stoops and take it easy or be like Ben Roethlisberger and "Drink Like a Champion" and still be great and win championships. Just get it done. So far, Carr really hasn't got the job done, so the question about whether he puts the hours in is legitimate. Carr's been paid a ton of money, and hasn't performed to expectations (regardless of the deficiencies around him). He's about to get a franchise QB bonus that he hasn't earned; being tough and handling failure builds character, but it doesn't make you a winner or good QB. This is the beef. So it doesn't matter whether it's a bowling league, bridge game, or family/religious commitment that's keeping him from allegedly putting in the requisite time. Do your job, earn your money.

The Buck Harvey article is good (if you are a Vince Young fan). So for everybody hating on Vince and McLain and Justice, just know that it's not only Houston and it's writers that want Young in a Texans jersey. It's San Antonio, Austin (obviously), and you better believe Dallas would want him and might still if we pass. Whether it matters to you guys or not, drafting Young would build regional support for the Texans... "We are Texas' team."

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 11:03 AM
Now you're not a "fan" if you don't have a man-crush on Davie Franchise. Funny stuff.

Has more to do with the faith and family angle(as has been stated), of course, you are going to twist it anyway to a Carr-lover angle.

Errant Hothy
02-07-2006, 11:04 AM
As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team.

An athlete gets his prioritys RIGHT ans we still bash him.

WTF is up with some of you people?

And for teh skills cahllenge, it's rpobaly the porrest measure of ability will see this offseason. it was a MADE FOR TV event, not a scouting oppurtunity.

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 11:05 AM
Yea, he couldnot even get the ball in an area 20 yards wide and 60 yards away, 2/3 were out of bounds by 10 yards.

***VY HATER ALERT***

***VY HATER ALERT***

Hulk75, you conveniently leave out:

-VY wasn't the only one who threw out of bounds

-The 2 passes that he threw out of bounds were over 70 yards, not 60, and further than anyone else in or out

-It was extremely windy, yet he still finished 2nd

-He also finished 2nd in the accuracy contest

-He was the only QB to hit any target in the obstacle course, in which he just killed

If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 11:07 AM
If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

I didn't watch the show. What other QBs were there?

Errant Hothy
02-07-2006, 11:07 AM
***VY HATER ALERT***

***VY HATER ALERT***

Hulk75, you conveniently leave out:

-VY wasn't the only one who threw out of bounds

-The 2 passes that he threw out of bounds were over 70 yards, not 60, and further than anyone else in or out

-It was extremely windy, yet he still finished 2nd

-He also finished 2nd in the accuracy contest

-He was the only QB to hit any target in the obstacle course, in which he just killed

If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

But who was there, beside VY? Yup thats rigth the second and third teir talent guys (Brodie Croyle, Charlie Whitehurst, and Drew Olson). Hardly worth competition for teh demi-god VY,right?

SESupergenius
02-07-2006, 11:15 AM
Does anyone here know how many hours Carr spends on preparation? TexansFight, you're first. I guess by the logic floating around, our offensive line is very good, we should have kept our coaching staff and let Carr go. Oh, and Casserly is doing a great job. I love the burnt orange logic, it makes sense.

latim06800
02-07-2006, 11:16 AM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

This guy is a columnist...yet he cannot even gramatically phrase his sentences correctly..."reported he is cares more about his family"... You don't "he is nothing" sir...LOL!!! This article is a freaking joke if you ask me....

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 11:19 AM
Carr spends an adequate amount of time in the film room and working out. Now he will need to spend more in order to learn the new system and nuances. He also will need to spend more to ensure that he can drag the team from obscurity.

Cjeremy635
02-07-2006, 11:19 AM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.


To start off, I've already made my case that I don't care who the Texans pick or who they keep/trade away. I will support my team regardless who the QB or running back is. Why is it that this board has turned into a fan bashing, current QB, college QB and college running back bashing board? This has got to be the lowest level of a fan base that I have witnessed in the existence of this message board. It has gotten to the point where some of you are dogging out someone who cares about their family and puts God as a priority! Do you really grasp the jest of you argument? You need to get a life and stop trying to totally analyze the aspects of everyone elses. From reading your point of view, I take it that you must be an extremely successful work-a-holic who doesn't give a crap about their family or God....am I right? It sure seems like that's what you expect out of our pro football players.

SESupergenius
02-07-2006, 11:20 AM
Yea way to finish second behind Croyle and Olson, #1 pick for sure.I just read that article and came away laughing. And TexansFight is a lawyer???? you better bring better ammo than that fluff piece, especially when your QB doesn't even win the competition, and that's without Lienart being there. Weak, weak takes are too many around here these days.

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 11:20 AM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

It looks like his priorities are in order then, your faith and family should come ahead of your career. Do you put your job as the #1 priority in your life ahead of your faith, family, friends, and whatever else?

I'll leave the Vince and the skills competition comment alone. After saying that you've seen nothing out of Carr to make you think he can lead this team, you go and bring up the ESPN skills competition as evidence of Vince's abilities (no I'm not knocking Vince on this thread, just pointing out you should use a better source of demonstrating Vince's skills to try and make your point).

Fighting Blue Hen
02-07-2006, 11:21 AM
Yea, and Bush couldn't even get on the field when the game was on the line. This happened on more than one occasion. See the ND game when Leinert QB sneaked it 2 playes in a row or a few plays earlier when it was 4th and 9. Where was he then.....well just like you said, out of bounds (a.k.a. on the bench). Don't even get me started on the UT game either, he was the change of pace back where Fatboy was the feature back. Yeah, let's draft Bush, I wouldn't mind going 5-11 on average for the next 3 years until we let carrs' option desintergrate and draft another kid from CA. Lets just move the F@#%$ team to CA while we're at it. We can called the LA Earthquakes cuz watching us lose game after game will cause the fans to want throw the team in one.

You know, this is true about Bush. I was watching the Rose Bowl game again on ESPN Classic specifically to watch Bush and Young, and Bush wasn't on the field for most of the 4th QTR, not just when the game was on the line. Maybe it was because when he was playing he was being kept in check by Texas. Bush did gain 82 yards on 13 carries however 26 of those yards was on one play. I honestly don't get how this guy cannot be on the field if he is the "greatest player to come out of college in a long time". I honestly think it is going to be a disaster if the "worm" get's his way and drafts Bush.

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 11:24 AM
But who was there, beside VY? Yup thats rigth the second and third teir talent guys (Brodie Croyle, Charlie Whitehurst, and Drew Olson). Hardly worth competition for teh demi-god VY,right?

So you think he can't throw, but he is a demigod? Which one is it?

Another thing about VY Haters is that they will never be satisfied with anything he accomplishes until he wins the Super Bowl for some other team, while Carr has $50 million from us in the bank for doing squat.

At least he had the nads to show up, unlike Leinart & Cutler.

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 11:26 AM
And the ones he missed were not 70 yards I saw and went back to see it again. Try again.

Sure, I have it Tivo'ed. You can't see where they went out of bounds because of the camera angle, but the commentators said they were 70 yards. Guess I'll just take your word for it, he sucks.

Dr. Toro
02-07-2006, 11:28 AM
I just read that article and came away laughing. And TexansFight is a lawyer???? you better bring better ammo than that fluff piece, especially when your QB doesn't even win the competition, and that's without Lienart being there. Weak, weak takes are too many around here these days.

Harvey's a little bit off on his facts, and yes he is a columnist, but he is a good one. Young finished second in the distance thing, second in the accuracy thing, and first in the agility thing. There was no overall winner, but if there were a points system he would've won it. The comp. meant nothing, so don't read into it either way. Harvey is right that Young was throwing a hard, tight, ball. I don't know if he talked to scouts after watching the thing, or if he's just being metaphorical, because earlier AP reports said there were no scouts in attendance. They might have watched it on TV, it might mean nothing to them, but there were a few standout performances by Jackson, Davis, and Young.

Lucky
02-07-2006, 11:28 AM
Another Texas columnist who thinks Young would have performed better in the Super Bowl than Roethlisberger or Hasselbeck did. Why? Well didn't you see the Rose Bowl or the Battle of the College Football All-Stars? That's about the same as the Super Bowl..

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 11:29 AM
***VY HATER ALERT***

***VY HATER ALERT***

Hulk75, you conveniently leave out:

-VY wasn't the only one who threw out of bounds

-The 2 passes that he threw out of bounds were over 70 yards, not 60, and further than anyone else in or out

-It was extremely windy, yet he still finished 2nd

-He also finished 2nd in the accuracy contest

-He was the only QB to hit any target in the obstacle course, in which he just killed

If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

*VINCE YOUNG LOVER ALERT*

I'm glad Vince was head and shoulders above Drew Olson, Charlie Whitehurst coming off of shoulder surgery, and Brodie Croyle.
Throwing the ball 70 yards doesn't matter much when you miss your target by 15-20 yards off to the side.
The obstacle course is what he should excel at, Olson is a pure pocket passer, Whitehurst is a pocket passer recovering from a shoulder surgery, and Brodie Croyle didn't even try after losing the ball.
Either way, this was an entertainment event, it was not any kind of good indication of what these guys will do in the NFL. Yes people that don't have a crush on Vince will point things he didn't do well in there, and yes others with a Vince crush will claim how that skills competition show that Vince will be a hall of famer.

People, get over the skills competition already, they had a very small group of guys there and it was meant to fill an hour of a TV slot during Super Bowl weekend, it is not meant as a prime scouting tool.

Porky
02-07-2006, 11:31 AM
Wow, incredible if you believe for a minute that any athlete in the NFL puts football above their family.

We agree -

Signed Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, and Ben Rothlesburger.

http://www.wsvn.com/images/news_articles/archive/01222004_drunk_Joe_Namath.jpg

Errant Hothy
02-07-2006, 11:33 AM
So you think he can't throw, but he is a demigod? Which one is it?

Another thing about VY Haters is that they will never be satisfied with anything he accomplishes until he wins the Super Bowl for some other team, while Carr has $50 million from us in the bank for doing squat.

At least he had the nads to show up, unlike Leinart & Cutler.

I'll go slow, and drop the sarcasm so you can under stand.

1) I do not think VY has an NFL caliber arm, especailly one that would justify teh #1 overall pick. Any QB can throw the 40-50 yarder over teh middle, the established gold standard for an NFL QB is the 15 yard out route. This is the thorw that makes an NFL QB in the eyes of talent evaluators.

2) I am not a VY hater, I don't think teh TExans should draft him, but I will admit what he did in college defied logic at times. He may be the greatest college QB ever. As for an NFL QB, I have some doubts. The NCAA does NOT equal the NFL.

3) I was rather shocked VY showed up, and it has nothing to do with "nads". No agent of a top 10 pick should allow his client to attend one of these things. Buch, Cutler and Leinart got good advice, and I'm starting to get concerns about the advice VY is getting.

Oh and one last thing, how heavy is VY's jock, and do you get tired carrying it around all day? And why can't all teh VY Lovers argue a point without resorting to calling people names and not addressing teh facts or points brought to their attention?

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 11:34 AM
Porky is that suppose to be what I dont get it. They all put family above football. So where were you going with that.

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 11:34 AM
So you think he can't throw, but he is a demigod? Which one is it?

Another thing about VY Haters is that they will never be satisfied with anything he accomplishes until he wins the Super Bowl for some other team, while Carr has $50 million from us in the bank for doing squat.

At least he had the nads to show up, unlike Leinart & Cutler.

Carr has received about $35 million to play with horrendous coaching and sub-par surrounding talent while most rookie QBs get the luxury of coming to established teams and getting to sit out for a year or two while they learn the game and system rather than being launched into the line of fire for an expansion team and given very little help from his coaching staff and personnel department.

Another thing on the Bush side of it, he was in the game at the end of the Notre Dame game, he's the one that helped push Leinart into the end zone. As for the UT game, football is a game of matchups and LenDale White's size and power matched up better with the UT defense than Bush's speed, and if one player is working better against a team in a particular game, why take him out and try to force your other guy to take carries?

TEXANRED
02-07-2006, 11:40 AM
Buddy, you just walked in the land where Carr can do no wrong and nothing is his fault. Boy are you about to be flamed!
Its b/c he is white.
Na just kidding with ya. Are you feeling a running joke coming on?:)

mikoto
02-07-2006, 12:16 PM
Caveat: all the data (combine) is not in. If the combine changes things then so will (happily, as I bleed burnt orange) my opinion.

Sorry for the length.

I don't understand the Bush v. VY debate. VY is not even considered top 5 material on many boards. Some boards have him anywhere from 7-15. Certainly he is not top two on anyones board except for those who think Carr sucks. Perhaps Carr does suck, but that would still not make it a responsible business decision, again at this time, to take VY with the #1 overall. Now, if we know Carr sucks (which we don't, come on, do you really think you know better than actual NFL coaches?), we could trade down a few spots, pick-up a bunch of picks in the deal and then get VY, then by all means consider it. But if you are going to stay at #1 VY is not a responsible pick. It is a reach and a terible gamble for a franchise who needs to get the closest thing to a sure thing in the draft, we need help, not potential. Never complain to anyone about Cassrely's gambles in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if you want VY with the #1. He is not as good of a prospect to NFL scouts as Bush OR Leinert, and I suspect those scouts and coaches know just a little more about football than you.

I agree that he has the most upside pontential of any QB I've seen coming out of the draft, maybe ever, but his bust potential is just as high. Higher, imho, than anyone in the top 15. In addition to the questions surrounding *every* QB entry, VY has issues surrounding his release, accuracy, arm strength, footwork, and the fact that he played in one of the simplest systems in college football behind one of the best o-line units. Can he handle the complexity of the NFL? Can he play his position with 1-3 less seconds to make his decision every time? *You don't know*. No one does. No one ever does. Also consider this. Most of VY's rushing yards came on that *simple* zone read play Texas ran ad nauseum, albeit to great effect, but would you really *want* him running all the time in the NFL? Injuries anyone? Why do you think every QB, even Vick, is taught to slide and run out of bounds?
The Question you have to ask yourself is whether or not he is the best prospect to be a dominating *pocket passer* in the NFL? The rest is gravy, if the rest is not gravy then you are gambling your entire season on every play you design for him to run. If the answer to the above question is maybe, but Leinert has a better chance of doing that, then what are we even discussing here? If you want a QB change you should want the most NFL ready prospect out there. Or do you want some kid who is a hometown hero who, like all rookie QB's, has a small chance to light it up from the get-go but realistically will ride the pine till Carr's contract is up, create a huge QB controversy in the mean time in the media and possibly within the locker room? Yummy, I can't wait to draft Vince.

Prior to the combine data the writing is on the wall, no matter how hard you bang your head against it. We will select Bush, we will not pass go or collect two hundred dollars. Either that or we will trade down for O-line or defense plus picks. There is a slim possibility that we will trade down for VY, assuming he doesn't increase his stock at the combine, but I wouldn't bet on it. Truth is, we don't know what we have in Carr. I am of the opinion that he can be a solid performer who shows spectacular from time to time, a notch above Dilfer. That is enough to keep him and draft at a position of greater need. That is how NFL teams do it.

Bush scares the heck out of every NFL D-coordinator, his first day, at 4(!) positions; RB, slot, wide, and PR. He just has too much speed, grace, cut-back ability and vision for teams to take him lightly no matter where he lines up. In addition he can run a screen, reverse, shovel pass, etc. from any of those positions, adding an additional layer of unpredictability and deception that we have never had. He is a game plan changer and a game breaker. DD actually gives the opponent a game plan, every team knows his outside potential is 40 not 100. That is not to diminish him, he is a chain mover, and thus valuable, but he is not a game breaker. Bush can go 100 on any play if the D makes one mistake and everyone in the league knows it, that is why he is viewed universally as the top prospect in the draft.

With Bush lined up as a reciever with AJ opposite and (hopefully) Mathis, you simply cannot blitz DB's. If you blitz a linebacker, allowing him to cross and catch in stride, you will hear a collective gasp from the crowd. If you let any of those guys behind you it is six. That is playing with live fire, facing one very sub 4.4 guy (who happens to be a physical beast) and two sub 4.3 guys, forget about it. If you line him up in the back field, his afore mentioned skills force DE's to play contain at the edges, respecting his ability to cut back and go the distance. They *cannot* affoard to gamble and crash in on Carr, nor can they gamble and rush upfield to get to Carr from the rear of the pocket, even on passing downs. Not when you have a running / screen / shovel-pass threat that can go 100 with the tiniest slip-up of any part of the defensive unit.

If you line him up in the backfield DT's and LB's and DE's will, again, have to respect his ability to go the distance and stay at home, maintain gap integrity, and NEVER over-pursue. Bush alone makes a huge impact on our pass protection problems. Last year teams did not have to play honest with us. With the addition of the speed and open field running ability of Bush, now they do. No more doubling AJ and sending the world. No more siting back, lazily in cover two or three and daring DD to beat them with short runs and catches while sending the world at Carr. Now they have to account for at least two game breakers (possibly three, if Mathis matures into his potential), and that takes the gamble out of a front seven and puts intense pressure on DB's.

If we pick up a mauler interior o-lineman with the first pick of the second (and there will be some there this year) and a respectable TE in the third or FA or Joppru finally pans out, our pass protection problems will be over. The trip to the candy store in Houston just got cancelled. I think there will be good value for TE's in the third, especially with the #1 pick of that round. I think Klopfenstein will be available, likewise David Thomas and Dominique Byrd. Poof, our offense is fixed unless Carr really does suck and in that case we will have another high pick next year to replace him. But we can't make that determination now. I am not a Carr apologist, he has sucked, period. However I am a realist and I know that if he has only one weapon that scares anybody (AJ), and that weapon can be neutralized simply (which, unfortunalely, to this point is the reality), *and* he plays behind a LITERALLY historically bad pass protecting offensive line, we just don't have the data necessary to judge him fully. Give him what every winning QB in the league has; weapons, time and NFL level coaching (I can't believe I had to add that last one), then make a final pronouncement.

We will have to address D next year. Or perhaps a key FA acquisition or two will do some good. I think that we most need a free safety and an interior linebacker if we stay 3-4, if we go 4-3 we most need a free safety and probably a DE. I think Babin can play at 285 and hold down one end position, albeit probably not spectacularly, but you have to pick your battles, no?

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 12:21 PM
Interesting take on the Vince and Reggie debate and I agree with a lot of it. However, adding a "mauling" interior OLineman is not going to help our pass protection, plus since we are using a zone blocking scheme a big mauler (I assume you're referring to guys like Jean-Gilles or Lutui) is not a good fit. In addition, Babin would have trouble playing at 285 lbs. and there is no reason for him to, he doesn't need to be that big to play a 4-3 DE. He is currently 259, and getting up to 265 or 270 would maybe help, but anything above that is unnecessary and is going to slow him down and make him more prone to injuries.

Dr. Toro
02-07-2006, 12:24 PM
3) I was rather shocked VY showed up, and it has nothing to do with "nads". No agent of a top 10 pick should allow his client to attend one of these things. Buch, Cutler and Leinart got good advice, and I'm starting to get concerns about the advice VY is getting.

I'm concerned about the advice Vernon Davis, Sinorice Moss, and DeAngelo Williams are getting too. They are managed poorly and this reflects negatively on them, right.

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 12:27 PM
Mork is right and good post mikoto(even though it was long as my "well you get it it was long") Babin will likely be about 265 coming into camp and Peek should be around 255. That is big enough for both of them assuming that most of it is strength and muscle to play opposite a detractor defensive end like Mario Williams.

bckey
02-07-2006, 12:27 PM
Carr has received about $35 million to play with horrendous coaching and sub-par surrounding talent while most rookie QBs get the luxury of coming to established teams and getting to sit out for a year or two while they learn the game and system rather than being launched into the line of fire for an expansion team and given very little help from his coaching staff and personnel department.

So are you saying Carr has been underpaid for what he has had to endure? He is about to get another $25 million to up that total to around $60 million. Would you have made this same statement after year 3 when the Texans went 7-9 and 75% of this bb was saying playoffs for year 4?

As far as rookie qbs going to established teams and sitting for a year or two it just isn't the norm anymore. The game has changed since free agency. The most crippling factor for Carr since day 1 hasn't been that he was thrown out there in a starting role. IMHO it has been that he was handed the starting job without ever competing for it and never has for 4 years.

Lucky
02-07-2006, 12:28 PM
The trip to the candy store in Houston just got cancelled.
Good first post. :ok:

I love that line. I hope I get a chance to steal that at some point next season. :)

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 12:35 PM
So are you saying Carr has been underpaid for what he has had to endure? He is about to get another $25 million to up that total to around $60 million. Would you have made this same statement after year 3 when the Texans went 7-9 and 75% of this bb was saying playoffs for year 4?

As far as rookie qbs going to established teams and sitting for a year or two it just isn't the norm anymore. The game has changed since free agency. The most crippling factor for Carr since day 1 hasn't been that he was thrown out there in a starting role. IMHO it has been that he was handed the starting job without ever competing for it and never has for 4 years.

I never said Carr got underpaid for what he's done, I was saying he's only gotten $35 million, not the $50 million that was stated in the previous post. Yes he's about to get another $24 million for three more years.

It is tough for rookie QBs to start right away. In Carr's situation, add to it that the coaches give you a lousy offense to run in especially in year 4 and give you such a lousy team to play with (one legitimate WR, one legitimate RB, one decent WR [Gaff] that plays behind a guy that can't catch a ball, no TE, and a horrible OLine), plus lousy individual coaching to improve your personal skills. Very few rookie QBs see much action other than if the starter gets hurt (Palmer sat a whole year, Eli sat half a year and should have sat the whole year, Rivers is still sitting, Alex Smith sat half a year, Aaron Rodgers sat a whole year, Big Ben and Kyle Orton only got in due to injuries).

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 12:38 PM
I agree with you mork just one correction Eli only sat half a year also, he got in after the Giants lost three in a row under Warner last year. They were 4-3 or 4-4 when Eli took over the reigns and effectively ended their season.

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 12:43 PM
I agree with you mork just one correction Eli only sat half a year also, he got in after the Giants lost three in a row under Warner last year. They were 4-3 or 4-4 when Eli took over the reigns and effectively ended their season.

Post edited for that. Good eye once again.

Errant Hothy
02-07-2006, 12:45 PM
I'm concerned about the advice Vernon Davis, Sinorice Moss, and DeAngelo Williams are getting too. They are managed poorly and this reflects negatively on them, right.

A) None of those guys have a chance of being teh #1 overall pick

B) I never said it reflected basly on VY, just that I'm concerned the about the advice he is getting. See Ricky Willams first NFL contract.

C) Once again I NEVER said it reflected poorly on VY.

But if I must, once again the VY fan club picks a minor point in a post, written by somebody who doesn't agree with them, and harps on that. So please Dr Toro tell me, was it a good group of QBs at this made for tv event ot judge VY against? Have you ever seen him throw a good, and I mean NFL goo not college good, pass to a recevier running a 15 yard out route?

Becasue I say no one both counts, and before anybody yells at me; I saw damn near every snap of UT football this year and last year.

mikoto
02-07-2006, 12:46 PM
When i say "mauler" I mean that he plays nasty and effective. Not that he is a huge fat-bag, ala Giles. Although I have to admit, I like Jean-Giles, but not for our team. He's just so darn mean and nasty, he loves to pancake guys, I love that.

Babin, you're right, would probably be more effective around 270. I believe he carried this weight or a little more in College. I'm not going to bother looking it up.

In the NFL it is the norm for an incumbent starter just given a huge extension to be given the reigns unless absolutely forced out of his job. That is tough to do on the practice field and the bench. It would probably require a Carr injury to get VY in the game. What I am describing is a "grooming" scenario. That is what the Texans would be thinking if they pay Carr big-time starter money and then draft a QB, yes, even VY. And again, unless something drastically changes at the combine, VY will not go #1, so he will not be getting #1 money.

Edit:
This guy: Davin Joseph OG 312 Oklahoma 6'2" 304 5.12 or
This guy: Charles Spencer Pitt 6'4" 330 5.15, he's a little big but he's athletic.

The reason I like interiior o-linemen in this draft, as opposed to Tackle, is due to the number of premium Tackles in this draft. Some elite Guards will get pushed down. Also, our weakness isn't at Tackle. It's at Center and left Guard. We have never given our QB the luxury of simply stepping up into a pocket, lol. Rookie supplats Steve "I go backwards" McKinney, Pitts has shown he can hold down LT, after that we have only one weakness on the O-line; Todd Wade. Wade is a good run blocker, but a poor pass blocker. Football people know that it is relatively easy to cover up one weakness on a line, in this case just don't leave him isolated against above average DE's. But as you introduce more weaknesses the difficulty in hiding them increases geometricly, because every weakness gives your opponent multiple options to exploit it, not just the obvious one of man-on-man. McKinney is a serviceable back-up at all three positions on the interior and that makes him suddenly a very attractive player to have. This makes us very strong there.

Edit 2: Seems Babin played at 276 in College (unverified college info) but weighed in at 260 at the combine.

Also, I have a question? Why is Hodgdon seen as not athletic? He can BP pver 500 pounds, ran a 5.28 at the combine while not spectacular certainly does not put him in the "slow" category for linemen. His lateral quickness was judged good, his strength in fact. The knock was that he was a little light (Kubiak anyone?) and lacked ideal lower body strength (I wonder if this is still the case?).

aj.
02-07-2006, 12:46 PM
Carr's base salaries were:

2002 $1.04 million
2003 $550k
2004 $660k
2005 $5.5 million

He received a signing bonus of $10.92 million in '02 and an option bonus of $3.08 million in '03.

There might have been assorted workout/reporting bonuses that haven't been widely reported but the money above (~22 million) is the bulk of what he's been paid since he's been here.

Kaiser Toro
02-07-2006, 12:49 PM
If Carr wants to be an atheist and put puppy's to sleep as a hobby I have zero problem with it as long as he contributes to the success of the team. It is a poor arguement in my opinion that tells me that Vince lovers have nothjng else to offer to this debate.

My take is not to have either of them. Moreover, as an ardent Carr contract hater I think it would be more foolish to release him and sign VY with the #1.

Dr. Toro
02-07-2006, 01:03 PM
A) None of those guys have a chance of being teh #1 overall pick

B) I never said it reflected basly on VY, just that I'm concerned the about the advice he is getting. See Ricky Willams first NFL contract.

C) Once again I NEVER said it reflected poorly on VY.

But if I must, once again the VY fan club picks a minor point in a post, written by somebody who doesn't agree with them, and harps on that. So please Dr Toro tell me, was it a good group of QBs at this made for tv event ot judge VY against? Have you ever seen him throw a good, and I mean NFL goo not college good, pass to a recevier running a 15 yard out route?

Becasue I say no one both counts, and before anybody yells at me; I saw damn near every snap of UT football this year and last year.


Are you trying to say you are honestly concened about VY? Davis and Williams are top 10 picks, Maroney and Moss are first rounders, are they getting bad advice? It seems to me like you made showing up for a worthless made for TV event where it would be near impossible to get hurt evidence of bad advice. This isn't touch football on sand, but running through ropes with a football in hand. He got good PR, met some good college players, got a free TV, did ESPN a favor, visited Ricky Williams, had some fun, c'mon. Just don't say ridiculous stuff, and I won't point it out.

Errant Hothy
02-07-2006, 01:14 PM
Are you trying to say you are honestly concened about VY? Davis and Williams are top 10 picks, Maroney and Moss are first rounders, are they getting bad advice? It seems to me like you made showing up for a worthless made for TV event where it would be near impossible to get hurt evidence of bad advice. This isn't touch football on sand, but running through ropes with a football in hand. He got good PR, met some good college players, got a free TV, did ESPN a favor, visited Ricky Williams, had some fun, c'mon. Just don't say ridiculous stuff, and I won't point it out.

It is bad advice to compete at an event that will do NOTHING to help your draft status, period.

And as I said, VY was the only onein attendance who had the chance to go #1. In my opionin no NFL propect should have taken part, but of all those present VY had teh most to lose, and nobody had anyting to gain.

And why wouldn't I be concerned for VY? I may not think he is the best fit for the Texans. He is a home town good about to make real good, and I'll probaly follow his career no matter where he goes.

But just my take, and losing in some of those event ot that crowd of QBs must have been a tad embarassing ofr VY, don't you think?

Vinny
02-07-2006, 01:28 PM
It is bad advice to compete at an event that will do NOTHING to help your draft status, period.

And as I said, VY was the only onein attendance who had the chance to go #1. In my opionin no NFL propect should have taken part, but of all those present VY had teh most to lose, and nobody had anyting to gain.

And why wouldn't I be concerned for VY? I may not think he is the best fit for the Texans. He is a home town good about to make real good, and I'll probaly follow his career no matter where he goes.

But just my take, and losing in some of those event ot that crowd of QBs must have been a tad embarassing ofr VY, don't you think?Nope, people question his passing ability and he has the confidence to show them otherwise. Very refreshing, very confident, and very impressive.

Big B Texan Fan
02-07-2006, 01:32 PM
Look, all this yack about Bush in the slot opposite AJ with mathis on the othr side and DD in the backfield is crap.

He (Carr) still has to make the right decision (something he hasn't been able to do thus far), the guys still have to catch the ball (AJ and his dropsies) and Mathis still has to crack the line-up.

Point blank-Bush will be a rookie playing a 16 game season along w/4 pre-season games and the possibility of a 5th if we play one down in Mexico City (rumor). That's alot for a rookie guy who split carries in college. The team will continue to struggle. Especially if we draft someone with our first pick who needs to split carries with someone as well as not being an option on short yardage situations.

Dr. Toro
02-07-2006, 01:34 PM
It is bad advice to compete at an event that will do NOTHING to help your draft status, period.

Not if it's fun and doesn't pose any real risk to your health. Let the man have fun without second guessing his counsel. He's got Steve McNair Inc., the whole Texas sports information department, prominent Texas alumni, Major Adams (not No Limit Records), watching out for him to make sure he doesn't pull a Ricky Williams.

Y'know why Brett Favre always looked so cool under pressure, late in games leading comebacks, slinging that thing? He was having fun. That doesn't make VY Brett Favre, but having fun ain't all bad.

mikoto
02-07-2006, 02:35 PM
Look, all this yack about Bush in the slot opposite AJ with mathis on the othr side and DD in the backfield is crap.

He (Carr) still has to make the right decision (something he hasn't been able to do thus far), the guys still have to catch the ball (AJ and his dropsies) and Mathis still has to crack the line-up.

Point blank-Bush will be a rookie playing a 16 game season along w/4 pre-season games and the possibility of a 5th if we play one down in Mexico City (rumor). That's alot for a rookie guy who split carries in college. The team will continue to struggle. Especially if we draft someone with our first pick who needs to split carries with someone as well as not being an option on short yardage situations.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that this will be some sort of full time alignment, just an option. That is really what the Bush pick boils down to; versatility and talent combined. You say "part time" like it's a bad thing. Knowing what a player can do and where he will line up is the best thing you can do for defensive game planning. The versatility of Bush to line up anywhere and, yes, split carries is his greatest asset and the very reason why teams love him. If you don't get that then you are stuck "inside the box", my friend. I hope you find the 250 pound running back of your dreams. In the mean time, I prefer options on offense that prevent the defense from knowing what you are up to no matter the down and distance.

If we don't trade out of the #1 slot, the odds are in favor of us seeing this alignment sometimes, as we will see many others. Mathis is still hope. Bradford stinks so he might be realized hope by default, lol.

Every rookie faces the infamous "rookie wall" even invincible QB's rated no higher that #3 on anyones board and as low as 15 on some. And this guy has to run and throw, phew, I get tired just thinking about it. For the record, I love VY and wish he could lead us to super bowls. That would be my ultimate Houston sports fantasy come true. But "point-blank" he is not a #1 pick. I would love to trade down and get tons of picks but I still would not pick VY. Do we need a QB more than a LB or a CB or a DE or a o-lineman of any flavor? I think not. Next year is soon enough for QB's, but next year will be defense and the Carr haters will eat it again, lol. A serviceable QB is harder to find than some of you seem to realize. Why the insistence that carr be great or be cut for the flavor of the month? You do realize that QB's bust more often than any other position? Even Ryan Leaf was "clutch" and a "leader" in College, and he had a darn sight better arm than VY (and Peyton Manning for that matter), *and* better mechanics than VY. Wait, he went to a horrible team? hrm.

You are right about Carr though, he has never made a correct decision. Also, he always played under brilliant coaching, always had a great game plan to work with, and always had tons of talent and time to make those "never correct" decisions. J/K, just pointing out the absurdity of absolutes.

C Madd
02-07-2006, 02:38 PM
Yea, and Bush couldn't even get on the field when the game was on the line. This happened on more than one occasion. See the ND game when Leinert QB sneaked it 2 playes in a row or a few plays earlier when it was 4th and 9. Where was he then.....well just like you said, out of bounds (a.k.a. on the bench). Don't even get me started on the UT game either, he was the change of pace back where Fatboy was the feature back. Yeah, let's draft Bush, I wouldn't mind going 5-11 on average for the next 3 years until we let carrs' option desintergrate and draft another kid from CA. Lets just move the F@#%$ team to CA while we're at it. We can called the LA Earthquakes cuz watching us lose game after game will cause the fans to want throw the team in one.
How about we do this? We move our team to Austin, then we change our colors to a burnt orange. Would that make you happier?

dirty steve
02-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

why don't you quit with this. what makes you think VY is that guy? why can't ferguson be the one to stabilize the line, or bush the guy that adds a dynamic dimension to the offense. or maybe mario williams comes in and adds a true defensive end that we need?

another thing--did VY even face a pass rush in that made for TV joke? nice way to judge how he made all those throws under pressure, against an NFL defense.

dmt217
02-07-2006, 03:08 PM
I don't understand the Bush v. VY debate. VY is not even considered top 5 material on many boards. Some boards have him anywhere from 7-15. Certainly he is not top two on anyones board except for those who think Carr sucks. Perhaps Carr does suck, but that would still not make it a responsible business decision, again at this time, to take VY with the #1 overall. Now, if we know Carr sucks (which we don't, come on, do you really think you know better than actual NFL coaches?), we could trade down a few spots, pick-up a bunch of picks in the deal and then get VY, then by all means consider it. But if you are going to stay at #1 VY is not a responsible pick. It is a reach and a terible gamble for a franchise who needs to get the closest thing to a sure thing in the draft, we need help, not potential. Never complain to anyone about Cassrely's gambles in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if you want VY with the #1. He is not as good of a prospect to NFL scouts as Bush OR Leinert, and I suspect those scouts and coaches know just a little more about football than you.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2005_3910994

Well, some coaches do think Carr sucks....

To Carr's credit, he takes a licking and keeps on ticking, but ask any coach or scout who watches tape of Texans games, and they'll tell you that he is to blame for a lot of the sacks.

One NFC coach who has watched tape of the Texans' games said this week that Carr has been hit so much that when he drops back and can't find a receiver immediately, he bails. That's a result of being sacked 167 times and getting hit many, many more.

An AFC personnel director who has watched the Texans says Carr has been hit so many times from so many angles that if he sets up and looks down the field and doesn't see a receiver, his head starts to swivel.

He feels the rush and instinctively expects to get crushed. When he bails, he might run right into a pass rusher. The blockers have no clue where he's going, so they don't know which way to try to take their man.

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 03:09 PM
How about we do this? We move our team to Austin, then we change our colors to a burnt orange. Would that make you happier?

The UT Haters probably outnumber the UT fans 5:1 here. UT bashing is all the rage on this board, so don't think you are being unique.

mikoto
02-07-2006, 03:28 PM
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2005_3910994

Well, some coaches do think Carr sucks....

Actually that article makes my point for me, well according to "anonymous" sources at least. Sometimes I wonder about McClain. Also, that section of the article should fall under the "captain obvious" category, which is probably why his "sources" were willing to say anything to him about it at all. Obviously, this is true.

Carr *has* sucked. I have never stated otherwise. Actually I have stated that due to the lack of talent, coaching, and gameplanning around him, he has no choice but to suck. Everybody sucks when they don't have time to throw, and everybody sucks when they have no weapons to throw to, and everybody sucks when getting pummeled is normal on a play instead of the exception, and everybody REALLY sucks when all of that is happening at once. If a monkey touches a hot stove, does he touch it again? It is called conditioning. YES, expect him to bail and have happy feet, who among us wouldn't? If you could then you are a bigger man than me. Personally 250-350lb men who can run and have bad intentions scare me.

Believe me, I know, unlearning is harder than learning. He may never recover to fulfill all of his promise, I acknowledge this simple fact. But to ruin him and them dump him? Seems a little weak. We should, and will, try to give him what any QB needs to be successful and then judge him over time (meaning a season or two even though you hate it). His upside that he has shown at times, albeit rare times, in the NFL makes him less of a risk than a rookie and he is still young.

Something about the fact that he holds the NFL single season record for being abused and holds the NFL record for being abused over four seasons, yet he keeps getting up and coming back for more and never unleashes on his teammates or coaches sits well with me. I think he has the courage to reclaim his confidence if given the opportunity, no one questions his physical tools. Don't bet on it, I'm wrong all the time :) . Just what I think.

SESupergenius
02-07-2006, 03:34 PM
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2005_3910994

Well, some coaches do think Carr sucks....
It's hypocritical for McClain to say that Texans' problems are because Carr's head is on a swivel then in the same article he professes:
Carr is experiencing what many highly rated and highly paid quarterbacks have gone through. They play with bad teams early in their careers, and when things start to fall apart, they crater. It's not just in one area, either. And it's impossible to turn it around overnight.ok which is it, Carr can't see his recievers or our team is bad???? He talks from all sides of his mouth and doesn't seem to have a clear cut point of view.

Texan Asylum
02-07-2006, 03:43 PM
Believe me, I know, unlearning is harder than learning. He may never recover to fulfill all of his promise, I acknowledge this simple fact. But to ruin him and them dump him? Seems a little weak. We should, and will, try to give him what any QB needs to be successful and then judge him over time (meaning a season or two even though you hate it).

That is the most intellegent thing I've read so far that's been posted for the defense of David Carr.

I can't wait till the season starts and alot of this "Gotta get rid of the Used Carr we got and trade up to a Younger version." stuff will go away. :redtowel:

Carr is my QB and I don't mind putting it on record.:ok:

Big B Texan Fan
02-07-2006, 03:45 PM
How about we do this? We move our team to Austin, then we change our colors to a burnt orange. Would that make you happier?
Nope, I could care less about burnt orange colors and the city of austin.
Just stating some distaine as to the bad decisions made and the ones that are gonna keep coming if we burn our #1 on a RB that can be found all through the draft.

Casserly said it himself. "Joe Gibbs always says you can never have enough QB's" (this was his defense for burning a 3rd rd'r on Ragone). And he also says when tooting his own horn about his ability to unearth RB's in the later rounds "You can always find a quality RB in round 3, 4, or 5." (DD, Stephen Davis, Riggins, Morency, etc....)

Now all of a sudden he thinks he should revert on that yet not revert on his decision to draft Carr. Give me a break.

The contradictions are flowing like cheap wine (Olympia Beer) at a red-neck family reunion.

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 03:48 PM
Nope, I could care less about burnt orange colors and the city of austin.
Just stating some distaine as to the bad decisions made and the ones that are gonna keep coming if we burn our #1 on a RB that can be found all through the draft.

This is an honest question: what does distaine mean? At first I thought you meant disdain, but that doesn't make sense in the sentence, so I guess I am confused.

Porky
02-07-2006, 03:59 PM
Porky is that suppose to be what I dont get it. They all put family above football. So where were you going with that.

Ya, you're probably right. Are these Ben's daughters? It's so nice to see him spending time with family. Awwww.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/bigbenroethlisbergeryeah.jpg

Vinny
02-07-2006, 04:03 PM
The Roethlis-burger is a burger named after the popular Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. It costs $7 (the number Ben Roethlisberger wears) at Peppi's restaurants in Pittsburgh; cheese is 7 cents extra. The burger is topped with one and a half pounds of beef and sausage, as well as scrambled eggs, lettuce, tomato and American cheese on a Portuguese roll.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/Rothlisburger.jpg/180px-Rothlisburger.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roethlis-burger

you dont want to see a carr-burger. Its an empty bun with an IOU for some meat later on when they can get better quality pickles and lettuce. :redtowel:

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 04:06 PM
Ya, you're probably right. Are these Ben's daughters? It's so nice to see him spending time with family. Awwww.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/bigbenroethlisbergeryeah.jpg

Your comments were in response to Coach C. speaking about putting football above family, so this makes no sense. Okay, so Ben puts partying above football...This adds credibility to your argument that these players put football first how?

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 04:13 PM
you dont want to see a carr-burger. Its an empty bun with an IOU for some meat later on when they can get better quality pickles and lettuce. :redtowel:

Vinny, stop. You're killing me!:rofl:

BTW, who is your avatar pic?

Vinny
02-07-2006, 04:15 PM
Dunta...I'm looking for a black n white AJ or Dunta in Texans gear though. I like the stark no-nonsense look.

Porky
02-07-2006, 04:17 PM
The Roethlis-burger is a burger named after the popular Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. It costs $7 (the number Ben Roethlisberger wears) at Peppi's restaurants in Pittsburgh; cheese is 7 cents extra. The burger is topped with one and a half pounds of beef and sausage, as well as scrambled eggs, lettuce, tomato and American cheese on a Portuguese roll.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/Rothlisburger.jpg/180px-Rothlisburger.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roethlis-burger

you dont want to see a carr-burger. Its an empty bun with an IOU for some meat later on when they can get better quality pickles and lettuce. :redtowel:

Vinny, this burger is so good, it's driven Burger King out of the burger Biz. He is now picking up chicks.

http://www.karlsonandmckenzie.com/data/RightSideBar_BottomContent/461_burke-burger-queen1.jpg

mikoto
02-07-2006, 04:22 PM
Nope, I could care less about burnt orange colors and the city of austin.
Just stating some distaine as to the bad decisions made and the ones that are gonna keep coming if we burn our #1 on a RB that can be found all through the draft.

Casserly said it himself. "Joe Gibbs always says you can never have enough QB's" (this was his defense for burning a 3rd rd'r on Ragone). And he also says when tooting his own horn about his ability to unearth RB's in the later rounds "You can always find a quality RB in round 3, 4, or 5." (DD, Stephen Davis, Riggins, Morency, etc....)

Now all of a sudden he thinks he should revert on that yet not revert on his decision to draft Carr. Give me a break.

The contradictions are flowing like cheap wine (Olympia Beer) at a red-neck family reunion.


It is easy to point out contradictions. It is much harder to deal with the fluidity of whatever situation you find yourself in.
Seems to me we just got rid of a coaching staff that was married to a philosophy so much so that they misused Draft picks, Free Agents, and refused to allow room in this philosophy for certain realities such as player capability.

I hope you are not suggesting we maintain that type of systemic epistomology just until we draft your guy, then "No more square pegs in round holes!" That would not be a contradiction, it would be hypocricy.

McClain is not a hypocrite, I do not give him that much credit, he is just self-contradictory and, well, not that sharp. Many people who live off the printed word feel that they must make things that have no easy answer fit into a model which can be characterized by having sides. Then by adopting one side while allowing room for the other side to be valid they can achieve some sort of congruence by osmosis, lol. Life is not like that.

In this case the Chicken and the Egg is a simultaneous event. The QB is both the most responsible and dependent person on offense at all times. *Deal with it*.

EVERYBODY SUCKS, yay! We here at the Texans organization are equal opportunity suckers.

Grid
02-07-2006, 04:28 PM
I know Id rather have a wife beating pagan as my QB... those guys really know how to lead a team.

AustinJB
02-07-2006, 05:10 PM
The Roethlis-burger is a burger named after the popular Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. It costs $7 (the number Ben Roethlisberger wears) at Peppi's restaurants in Pittsburgh; cheese is 7 cents extra. The burger is topped with one and a half pounds of beef and sausage, as well as scrambled eggs, lettuce, tomato and American cheese on a Portuguese roll.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/Rothlisburger.jpg/180px-Rothlisburger.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roethlis-burger

you dont want to see a carr-burger. Its an empty bun with an IOU for some meat later on when they can get better quality pickles and lettuce. :redtowel:

LMAO!! That is funny stuff...heheheh!

Fighting Blue Hen
02-07-2006, 05:17 PM
I know Id rather have a wife beating pagan as my QB... those guys really know how to lead a team.

Yeah, Warren Moon was fun to watch.

jerek
02-07-2006, 05:28 PM
Does anyone here know how many hours Carr spends on preparation? TexansFight, you're first. I guess by the logic floating around, our offensive line is very good, we should have kept our coaching staff and let Carr go. Oh, and Casserly is doing a great job. I love the burnt orange logic, it makes sense.

Nobody on this board knows how many hours Carr spends in preparation. Some dubious journalist says that he "knows" that Carr spends x hours in preparation, or some vague "source close to the team" "told" him that, and then next thing you know it's gospel truth.

It's one thing to critique a guy's play. That at least is an opinion constructed on the basis of verifiable evidence. I could post some "pro-Carr" or "anti-Vince" article on here based upon much the same speculation, and the Vince huggers would be up in arms about the "speculation." Seems to me, you should be willing to give Carr the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this kind of "investigative reporting."

That is, of course, unless you are not engaged in any kind of factual mission and are simply trying to further your own agenda.

bdiddy
02-07-2006, 10:59 PM
I have long been a proponent for Buck Harvey. He is a far superior reporter than any of our current main stays (especially McClain or Justice). This guy should be in a top 10 market, he just loves San Antonio. He, unlike McClain or Justice, can have his own unique opinion without having to be told what he should think. McClain has never written an original article - he spits out exactly whatever given scout he talked to that day happened to say. Additionally, at this point McClain better be under contract w/ VY for all the propoganda he is spouting off. Can he write an article about anything regarding the Texans that does not end with the general thesis of the Texans have to draft VY? The Texans have signed such and such as the new equipment manage, his favorite number is 10, further evidence that the Texans must draft VY. This is hyperbole, but I better watchout McClain may be trolling the boards for story ideas.