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thetexanator
02-06-2006, 05:17 PM
can we really go another year with this guy? we seriously need to upgrade at corner. what do u guys think?

powerfuldragon
02-06-2006, 05:19 PM
pretty much everyone agrees. the raiders are still laughing at us.

Tedc
02-06-2006, 05:19 PM
AAARRGGGGGHHHH!

Not again. Say it won't be so!

Mr. White
02-06-2006, 05:20 PM
I think he should be put on the kick team as the guy who breaks the wedge. That way, he HAS to hit somebody.

Dunta_23
02-06-2006, 05:20 PM
I think depeding on the scheme he could be a # 2 starter/nickle...He isnt going to start laying the wood, so maybe we have to home his coverage skills and big play ability start to show. IMO I think we need to bring another quality corner in via the draft or FA. With the lack of TRUE 4-3 DE, I believe there will be a lot of pressure on the secondary.

Corrosion
02-06-2006, 05:27 PM
I think he should be put on the kick team as the guy who breaks the wedge. That way, he HAS to hit somebody.


Good Idea .... I got a really good laugh outa that !


I think depeding on the scheme he could be a # 2 starter/nickle...He isnt going to start laying the wood, so maybe we have to home his coverage skills and big play ability start to show. IMO I think we need to bring another quality corner in via the draft or FA. With the lack of TRUE 4-3 DE, I believe there will be a lot of pressure on the secondary.


NO , and NO again , P-Burnt wont play the system .... thats one of his biggest problems .... he's always out of position and gambles to make the INT rather than the solid play .... as PowerfulDragon said above ... The Raiders and Al Davis are Still laughing ....I think he should A) get cut , B) play special teams until he can show some discipline .... Being a contract year he better put it together :twocents:

Dunta_23
02-06-2006, 05:30 PM
Oh I definately think the raiders got the WAYYYYYYYYY better end of the trade, no doubt about that, BUT we have him now and he MAY be salvageable?

run-david-run
02-06-2006, 05:35 PM
Hey, what did the Raiders get out of those draft picks? Anyone know? If they actually draft someone good, then they got the best of it, but the infamous Ditka/Ricky Williams trade brought absolutley nothing out of the draft.

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 05:43 PM
He will only count 800k against the cap next year, very cheap. If you buy into the arguement that the staff will help so and so next year, then you must also take a wait and see attitude with PBuc.

Corrosion
02-06-2006, 05:52 PM
He will only count 800k against the cap next year, very cheap. If you buy into the arguement that the staff will help so and so next year, then you must also take a wait and see attitude with PBuc.


The problem here is that the D-Backs will be coached by the same person ... And if Jon Hoke Cant get the best out of Buchannon ... I just dont think it can be done ....Hoke is one of the best DB coaches around .... But the price is right .... $800k isnt gonna hurt the cap much , He will have another year to show what he can do.

LowDownSkinny
02-06-2006, 05:54 PM
I have to say, I initially saw "PBUC" in the subject and racked my brain to think of what it was...

Pass Break Up?

No.

Pass Break Up Corner?

Nooooooo, they're talking about Philip BUChanon. Of course, he's not a pass-break-up corner.

:redtowel:

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 06:02 PM
The problem here is that the D-Backs will be coached by the same person ... And if Jon Hoke Cant get the best out of Buchannon ... I just dont think it can be done ....Hoke is one of the best DB coaches around .... But the price is right .... $800k isnt gonna hurt the cap much , He will have another year to show what he can do.

I agree with your take on Hoke, but just to twist it a bit how about this? Hoke was a soldier and was going with Fangio's plan as was PBuc playing that awful zone coverage. Remeber how happy Hoke and Buchanon were to work with another when he was acquired? Maybe Hoke thought there would be more man coverage and then Fangio went more towards zone. I have no idea, just throwing it out there.

Corrosion
02-06-2006, 06:08 PM
I agree with your take on Hoke, but just to twist it a bit how about this? Hoke was a soldier and was going with Fangio's plan as was PBuc playing that awful zone coverage. Remeber how happy Hoke and Buchanon were to work with another when he was acquired? Maybe Hoke thought there would be more man coverage and then Fangio went more towards zone. I have no idea, just throwing it out there.


Well .... Being a contract year .... Buchannon has little choice but to show he can play a system and not just free-lance .... Or find a new line of work ....
Be it zone or man , with his speed and other physical tools he should have little trouble ... Its the mental side of the game that I just dont think he gets .
I really think he's a ME FIRST player in the ultimate TEAM sport .

(and his tackling has to be the worst of any corner in the NFL .... cant or wont I dont know which)

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 06:14 PM
(and his tackling has to be the worst of any corner in the NFL .... cant or wont I dont know which)

That statement does not need parentheses, it needs to breathe and be heard. I am not a PBuch apologist, I do see value, but he needs to eat a few jalapenos to help grow some hair and take on those runners with a purpose.

dalemurphy
02-06-2006, 07:28 PM
My guess is that he'll play very well this year. He strikes me as the kind of guy who will play well in his contract year. While it appears to have been a bad trade, it's important to remember that it was a low risk gamble. We got a 1st round talent for two years- counting nothing against the cap. And, if he does have a good year and leaves via free agency, we will get a high compensatory pick for 2007.

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 07:50 PM
(and his tackling has to be the worst of any corner in the NFL .... cant or wont I dont know which)

This statement was very accurate until he was demoted. After that, while not great, he started tackling much better.

YoungTexanFan
02-06-2006, 08:05 PM
This statement was very accurate until he was demoted. After that, while not great, he started tackling much better.

I pointed that out a while ago, and not a single person took notice of what I was saying.

profan
02-06-2006, 08:27 PM
It's just hard to believe this is the same guy who played for Miami. He was an all american cornerback. Had 44 tackes his sophmore year and 23 his junior year of which 15 were solo. Had a qb sack and two tackes for lossed in the 2002 rose bowl to help miami to the national championship. Runs a 4.31 forty. I say keep him for cheap and try to get him playing like a first round pick.

barzilla
02-06-2006, 08:36 PM
Okay, but what defense did they play at Miami U? Was it a defense that required discipline or did they just have superior athletes that used their individual talents?

For what it's worth, Hoke was on 610 this past week and he said the 4-3 would not affect the coverages that much. Of course, Fangio ran his defenses like a little girl so maybe some of the defenders took on his personality. It seems to me that it would be hard to be aggressive if you're always rushing four and sagging back.

I would give this guy another year, but draft another corner anyway. If PBuch has a great year he will be expensive in free agency anyway following the season, so either way you need depth.

profan
02-06-2006, 08:41 PM
In general those miami teams had superior athletes, that's why many of them are playing in the nfl. PB kind of reminds me of deon sanders. Good speed, punt returns, but no tackles in the nfl. Will be an interesting year.

stevo3883
02-06-2006, 09:13 PM
In general those miami teams had superior athletes, that's why many of them are playing in the nfl. PB kind of reminds me of deon sanders. Good speed, punt returns, but no tackles in the nfl. Will be an interesting year.


except for the whole covering thing Deion was known to do.

profan
02-06-2006, 09:19 PM
no doubt deon was much better at covering. But he did not like to get hit and was poor at tackling. Some of PB attempted tackles reminded me of deon. His coverage did not remind me of deon.

edo783
02-07-2006, 12:25 AM
Sooo, let me see if I have this. He doesn't tackle but he can't cover. OK, guess that's a starting CB in someones book, just not mine.

HardKnockTexan
02-07-2006, 03:26 AM
Okay... like many Texan fans I was really excited when we got a young potential gamebreaking cornerback. Like many Texan fans I was dissapointed when he was consistantly picked on and burnt. His "oley" tackle on the goalline pretty much sealed the deal for me.

After halfway through the season I started to really try to pay attention to our defense. I'd check to see if we were in zone or man. I believe the main problem with P buc is that he cant play zone. Now that's not a good excuse for his piss poor play but I believe Fangio's system really held him back. A shut down corner needs to be in man-to-man. With his speed and leaping ability I believe that he can cover just about anyone in the league if he wants to. Zone requires a little more thought and deciplin which he is obviously lacking. If we can upgrade the saftey possition then we can put P Buc on an island and allow him to try and make plays. If we have someone who will make up for his mistakes (FS/SS) then I think he will be a decent #2 or nickly D-Back for us. Now there is a good chance I could be blinded by steel blue Texan pride... but we have him for another year.. and I want him to succeed for my team.

bdiddy
02-07-2006, 07:06 AM
Alot will depend on what type of 4-3 scheme we run. For example, if we run the Tampa 2 (emphasis put on the two deep zone) I think Pbuc can be a good player. He is a good athlete that likes to gamble and thus needs safety help. If you look at a guy like Ronde Barber on the Bucs, he has has a number of very good years but he would be average at best if you put him in our scheme from the past two years. Pbuc needs to be a boundary corner on the short side of the field. Additionally, it would help if we do not have the philosophy of keeping Dunta or Pbuc on one given side (as the last staff did). DRob should play the opponents best WR regardless of whether that means lining up on the left or the right side.

OzzO
02-07-2006, 01:16 PM
Hey, what did the Raiders get out of those draft picks? Anyone know? If they actually draft someone good, then they got the best of it, but the infamous Ditka/Ricky Williams trade brought absolutley nothing out of the draft.

Raiders got a 2nd and 3rd from us. Looks like Stanford Routt (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8199&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8199) (CB-Hou) and Andrew Walter (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8746&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8746) (QB-Ari)

Porky
02-07-2006, 01:37 PM
Raiders got a 2nd and 3rd from us. Looks like Stanford Routt (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8199&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8199) (CB-Hou) and Andrew Walter (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8746&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8746) (QB-Ari)

It's hard to compare because odds are we take neither guy, although Routt was a possibility. Let's just say we took Routt in round 2 to groom behind Glenn, and then in rd 3 we take a TE, Safety, olineman, etc. So, now you have to ask yourself would you rather have Pbuch, or Glenn, Routt and Mr X in the 3rd round.

How about signing Nate Clements? I think he is a FA this year, and he is an excellent cover corner. Then we can keep Pburnt as the nickel guy and see if he can be repaired. We can also ignore corner in the draft this year, at least until the late rounds if at all.

HardKnockTexan
02-07-2006, 01:46 PM
It's hard to compare because odds are we take neither guy, although Routt was a possibility. Let's just say we took Routt in round 2 to groom behind Glenn, and then in rd 3 we take a TE, Safety, olineman, etc. So, now you have to ask yourself would you rather have Pbuch, or Glenn, Routt and Mr X in the 3rd round.

How about signing Nate Clements? I think he is a FA this year, and he is an excellent cover corner. Then we can keep Pburnt as the nickel guy and see if he can be repaired. We can also ignore corner in the draft this year, at least until the late rounds if at all.

Getting Nate would be big time but I dont think that we'll have much pull in FA this season. A big reason, second to money, for a FA to go to a team is to win. As much as I hope we can turn things around quickly I doubt many big name free agents would be willing to put themselves in a situation that's so up in the air right now.

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 01:48 PM
Stanford Routt played well and the Raiders were very happy with the corners they took in the draft. Andrew Walter was hurt this year, if he would not have been he likely would have been the starter, Walter plays alot like Collins just with more mobility.

Malloy
02-07-2006, 02:12 PM
IMO he has one year left, let's see if a new scheme and new coaching can change his output. If not, he's on the bench until he's deactivated.

keyfro
02-07-2006, 02:18 PM
you know...i'm not a fan of philip buchanan...i think he's a worse tackler than deion sanders...funny thing is that was his idol...anyways...i do think in the right system buchanan can be a good corner...but it cannot be a man coverage defense it would have to be a zone scheme...and even then i'd like to see the texans bring in a day one pick at the corner position...i'm hoping for either cedric griffin or anwar phillips...both are 6'+ tall and both have great confidence in their abilities in both ball hawking and tackling

stevo3883
02-07-2006, 02:36 PM
our team is still young, so lots of fans like to hold out hope for players to do well. We have forgotten what a bust is, and we wait and wait expecting something to make them plat better.

Buchanon has been through what, 3 coaching staffs? he was horrible in all of them. A team with the WORST defense in the league traded away their rd1 cb that they have had for 2 years, other teams wouldnt give up a 3rd for him. WE GAVE UP A 2ND ANNNNNND 3RD! WARNING WARNING HES NOT GOOD

we've seen posts about Hollings just not getting a fair chance
Joppru doesnt have injury problems, hes just unlucky
Pbuc just needs a new coach, that will teach him how to actually play football.

keyfro
02-07-2006, 02:45 PM
well he won't be getting a new coach...jon hoke is still gonna be the db's coach...i think he needs a new system...and a new attitude but i think we'll keep him this season due to a need of talent when facing indy...face it we dont' have that great of talent in the defensive backfield...d-rob is good although he had a sophomore slump...both earl and brown are really unproven...as far as faggins, buchanan, and sanders are concerned...all are probably more suited as nickelbacks...we'll need all the help we can get

HardKnockTexan
02-07-2006, 03:25 PM
you know...i'm not a fan of philip buchanan...i think he's a worse tackler than deion sanders...funny thing is that was his idol...anyways...i do think in the right system buchanan can be a good corner...but it cannot be a man coverage defense it would have to be a zone scheme...and even then i'd like to see the texans bring in a day one pick at the corner position...i'm hoping for either cedric griffin or anwar phillips...both are 6'+ tall and both have great confidence in their abilities in both ball hawking and tackling

It looked to me that P Buc was lost in zone coverage last season. Now I dont have access to game film but time after time when he was picked on it looked as if he was covering a zone instead of man to man... could be wrong though.

latim06800
02-07-2006, 03:33 PM
Mark my word...Barring any injury of course...Phillip Buchanon will excell next year as he will be given the ability to play man on man versus that zone defense crap we ran last year...He is not a zone corner...He excells at taking risk and going for interceptions, not playing conservative and laying a lick on the WR....He is not a physical corner...

OzzO
02-07-2006, 04:29 PM
It's hard to compare because odds are we take neither guy, although Routt was a possibility. Let's just say we took Routt in round 2 to groom behind Glenn, and then in rd 3 we take a TE, Safety, olineman, etc. So, now you have to ask yourself would you rather have Pbuch, or Glenn, Routt and Mr X in the 3rd round....

Oh, I wasn't comparing - just answering a question on who the Raiders got for our picks.

Apoch
02-07-2006, 10:29 PM
Raiders got a 2nd and 3rd from us. Looks like Stanford Routt (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8199&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8199) (CB-Hou) and Andrew Walter (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8746&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8746) (QB-Ari)

It wasn't so much who they got, but rather it was about who we could have chosen. Kevin Burnett, Lofa Tatupu (we all know his impact), and Odell Thurman were all great LBs that were taken just after Routt. If we wanted a CB, there was Corey Webster, Darrent Williams (who some analysts have said played at a probowl level this year), and Bryant McFadden. Right now I'd take any of those corners over PBuc.

3rd round? How about Ellis Hobbs who had an outstanding rookie year for the Pats?

The trade just wasn't good no matter how you look at it.

Malloy
02-08-2006, 01:46 AM
He will only count 800k against the cap next year, very cheap. If you buy into the arguement that the staff will help so and so next year, then you must also take a wait and see attitude with PBuc.


It's funny, the times we have seen him return punts he's VERY energetic and obviously giving everything he has to create "something". If he still underperforms at CB then it's 900k for a punt returner, not too bad.

HJam72
02-08-2006, 12:43 PM
It's funny, the times we have seen him return punts he's VERY energetic and obviously giving everything he has to create "something". If he still underperforms at CB then it's 900k for a punt returner, not too bad.


Except when you consider that I would do it for 100k. I'll take extra pads please. :)

Big78
02-08-2006, 12:56 PM
I think he should be put on the kick team as the guy who breaks the wedge. That way, he HAS to hit somebody.

im sure he could find a way not to. he'd finally use his speed and agilty for some thing he cared about, himself.

bigTEXan8
02-08-2006, 01:55 PM
I'd like to see him come back this upcoming year rejuvinated. I hope he takes this off-season and looks upon what he has to do to keep his butt in the NFL. P-Buch is a better man-to-man CB than he is a zone CB. P-Buch's speed was taken away from him when all they played was zone. Plus, the lack of a pass-rush didn't help any of our secondary in 2005. I feel that if we play more man-to-man this upcoming year, I say he proves he's a better CB than we all think. JM:twocents:

Meloy
02-08-2006, 03:41 PM
Mark my word...Barring any injury of course...Phillip Buchanon will excell next year as he will be given the ability to play man on man versus that zone defense crap we ran last year...He is not a zone corner...He excells at taking risk and going for interceptions, not playing conservative and laying a lick on the WR....He is not a physical corner...
Ok, let's say you are correct. He has a pretty good 2006. Do we try to resign @ a very high rate or allow him to be signed away as free agent and get a draft pick? Some of the things I read here sound like Carr: not his fault, wrong scheme, etc. Most folks seem to want to give PB another year but not David. hmmm.

TreWardTxn
02-08-2006, 04:22 PM
I'd like to see him come back this upcoming year rejuvinated. I hope he takes this off-season and looks upon what he has to do to keep his butt in the NFL. P-Buch is a better man-to-man CB than he is a zone CB. P-Buch's speed was taken away from him when all they played was zone. Plus, the lack of a pass-rush didn't help any of our secondary in 2005. I feel that if we play more man-to-man this upcoming year, I say he proves he's a better CB than we all think. JM:twocents:

A guy with his speed and ability to change direction should be devestating in a zone as it should allow him to cover large portions of the field. The problem with Buchannon is that he has no instincts for zone and is always out of position. On top of that he doesn't WANT to tackle anyone and even when in man, tries to sit on routes, routinely giving up big plays. He's had 4 years to prove he was worth the top 20 pick he garnered when he came into the league, at best, it looks likes he's the next T Buck, the BPA when you need a guy to fill a hole at CB or to play in the nickel...

SESupergenius
02-08-2006, 04:51 PM
I was under the impression that Buchanon was going to come in and be our nickel guy and MAYBE push Glenn for a starting slot. Then somehow the whole thing imploded and Buchanon is given, (now mark my word Carr haters because you always like the throw out that Carr was "given" the QB position), yes "given" the starting LCB slot. It didn't take long for Texans fans to realize what almost every knowledgable NFL fan already knew, Buchanon was soft and a clubhouse cancer. Now the question becomes, can he still be that nickel? I say yes, but once you have cancer, it's almost impossible to get rid of, and Buchanon has cancer written all over him.

bigTEXan8
02-08-2006, 06:53 PM
A guy with his speed and ability to change direction should be devestating in a zone as it should allow him to cover large portions of the field. The problem with Buchannon is that he has no instincts for zone and is always out of position. On top of that he doesn't WANT to tackle anyone and even when in man, tries to sit on routes, routinely giving up big plays. He's had 4 years to prove he was worth the top 20 pick he garnered when he came into the league, at best, it looks likes he's the next T Buck, the BPA when you need a guy to fill a hole at CB or to play in the nickel...

I agree. That's why I think that if the Texans played a more man-on-man D, his skills would be more visible. To me, he just seemed uncomfortable all season playing in that zone. And, to be fair, no one in the Texans' secondary really stood up and shouted this year.

Tayton
02-09-2006, 09:08 AM
Buchanan was the worst CB we have had. Unlike popular belief he is not a good man to man corner. He does not do well in zone coverage nor is he a good tackler. I watched him alot last year and I personally don't think that it is scheme or technique, it's his talent. Our only hope defensively is that we somehow get another corner and throw Buchanan into the Nickle/Dime mix where he has smaller areas to cover and can close on the ball faster. Charlie Weiss said offensive football is easy, you find the other teams worst player and keep going after him. It happened ALOT last season.

exclude
02-09-2006, 04:12 PM
Raiders got a 2nd and 3rd from us. Looks like Stanford Routt (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8199&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8199) (CB-Hou) and Andrew Walter (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8746&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfl draft%2Fdraft05%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D8746) (QB-Ari)

Shoot, Routt isn't bad. I wouldn't mind having Routt. Of course I saw most of his games since I'm alum.

hot pickle
02-09-2006, 04:27 PM
well champ bailey didnt have a very good 2004 season with the broncos his first year, and this past year he turned it around and put of some of the best stats for a corner in the NFL, and i know buchanon is no were near champ bailey quality but maybe he can turn it around and be a productive corner, so we will have to wait and see.

and whats gonna happen to coleman?
I think he should stick with the team but have him a C.C. alternating, and see wich one is better, what do you think?

stevo3883
02-09-2006, 04:45 PM
well champ bailey didnt have a very good 2004 season with the broncos his first year, and this past year he turned it around and put of some of the best stats for a corner in the NFL, and i know buchanon is no were near champ bailey quality but maybe he can turn it around and be a productive corner, so we will have to wait and see.

and whats gonna happen to coleman?
I think he should stick with the team but have him a C.C. alternating, and see wich one is better, what do you think?


champ made the pro-bowl in 2004

Buchanon got benched and put on the IR in 2005... hes got a ways to go to even start again.

P_Buchanon
02-14-2006, 11:26 AM
Letīs just hope that phillip does anything in the offseason to be a better tackler and give him the chance to get the 2nd starting corner beside dunta... i trust in him, cause of his speed... he just needs more experience in the game!!!! Just sit down and wait what he will show us next season :yahoo:

run-david-run
02-14-2006, 08:00 PM
I dont understand..hes a beast in Madden..

Ibar_Harry
02-14-2006, 08:14 PM
My feeling is that PBUC will turn it around under the new coaching staff and be a tremendous asset or the opposite he will be gone. I think PBUC is another one of those players who has struggled under the directionaless coaching staff Huston had in place. They played an impossible defense that no one understood and ineptly coached the players in it. Other than that it wasn't too bad. Many players on this team will have to unlearn the bad habits taught to them by the previous coaching staff. Don't write any one off of this team as yet. Just see the transformation that takes place under the new guidance.

LBblitz
02-14-2006, 08:26 PM
I agree. PBuch will improve this year under the new coaching philosophy and hopefully a consistent pass rush...that seemed to hurt him early in the season when we were not get pressure which gave receivers time to find the hole in the zone, an area that he really wasnt strong with in the first place.

Dunta_23
02-14-2006, 08:27 PM
I dont understand..hes a beast in Madden..

A beast he sure is...in my first season I had something like 25 pics and 16 or so for Td's....hes a monster

powerfuldragon
02-15-2006, 08:08 AM
A beast he sure is...in my first season I had something like 25 pics and 16 or so for Td's....hes a monster


What's that on? Rookie?

Tayton
02-15-2006, 08:39 AM
Those that watch the real Philip Buchanan know that we NEED another cornerback.