PDA

View Full Version : If Carr Were in This Year's Draft, How Would You Rank Him?


AustinJB
02-06-2006, 05:05 PM
Just for kicks, try to imagine that Carr was coming out in this year's draft. How would you rank him compared to the other QB prospects if you were ranking the top 5?

My purpose is not to start another bash Carr/pro VY thread, I'm just curious to see what others think. I also know that this doesn't necessarily answer any questions about what we should do b/c we have a lot of money wrapped up in Carr...but just humor me please.:cool:


Here's my list:

1. Young
2. Cutler
3. Leinart
4. Carr
5. Jacobs

Porky
02-06-2006, 05:08 PM
Based on his talent coming out of College, probably 4th, and in the 10-15 area of the first round.

Johnny Utah
02-06-2006, 05:13 PM
1. Leinart
2. Young
3. Carr
4. Cutler

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 05:16 PM
Based on his talent coming out of College, probably 4th, and in the 10-15 area of the first round.

Hey but what about the game versus the Trojans where FSU put up 40 something points. They were defending National Champions.

Don't mind me, just thinking out loud what this debate would have looked like.

And now a smily playing piano with a dancing banana on top. :piano:

rmartin65
02-06-2006, 05:18 PM
#1, he had an amazing college season.

BuffSoldier
02-06-2006, 05:25 PM
carr
leinart
young


I think that he would be the second pick to NO because he has a much stronger arm than leinart and was as high;y thougth of out of college.

nunusguy
02-06-2006, 06:09 PM
Like everyone else in this Draft, somewhere behind Reggie Bush.

LongBignasty1
02-06-2006, 06:52 PM
no way #1 Probably second round, especially when he causes half of the sacks himself by holding the ball.

P.S. i don't want D'Brick!

TexanFan881
02-06-2006, 07:01 PM
If Carr were in this year's draft he'd probably be right up there with Young and Leinhart. A lot of people will probably say that he should be down there by Cutler but you've got to look at it as if we didn't know Carr was going to be a bust yet.

YoungTexanFan
02-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Just coming out of college:

Carr
Leinhert
Jacobs
Young
Croyle
Cutler

Dr. Toro
02-06-2006, 07:17 PM
Carr would still be a great NFL prospect. I would see him as #3. I doubt he would be able to get past Young because of his athleticism and momentum and Leinart has championships and a longer record of success against better competition.

Carr had some knocks on his game, low release point, holds the ball too long, played in a very weak WAC. However, I believe he would be ahead of Cutler. Funny, no one has mentioned this, but the current non-Ronnie Coleman king of bodybuilding is Jay Cutler. Football Jay Cutler is getting tons of hype on Favre-like potential with a very good 2005. Carr would have compared favorably with respect to mobility and performance, with arm strength being a wash. Cutler played well with a relatively weak team in a dominant conference, so he'd be seen as more battle tested. I don't think either prospect was or is as "sexy" as Leinart and Young. Whether that's a testament to ability or the size of the stage they played on, I don't know.

DominickDavisFan76
02-06-2006, 07:41 PM
1.Omar Jacobs

2.David Carr

3.Brodie Croyle

4.Vince Young

5.Matt Leinart

txlonghorn14
02-06-2006, 07:46 PM
not even in the first round.

run-david-run
02-06-2006, 07:54 PM
Based on his talent coming out of College, probably 4th, and in the 10-15 area of the first round.
WHAT?!?!?!? Coming out of college he had thrown for 4800 yards and 48 TD's. Coming out of college, he would be number one by a long shot.

run-david-run
02-06-2006, 07:55 PM
Carr would still be a great NFL prospect. I would see him as #3. I doubt he would be able to get past Young because of his athleticism and momentum and Leinart has championships and a longer record of success against better competition.

Carr had some knocks on his game, low release point, holds the ball too long, played in a very weak WAC. However, I believe he would be ahead of Cutler. Funny, no one has mentioned this, but the current non-Ronnie Coleman king of bodybuilding is Jay Cutler. Football Jay Cutler is getting tons of hype on Favre-like potential with a very good 2005. Carr would have compared favorably with respect to mobility and performance, with arm strength being a wash. Cutler played well with a relatively weak team in a dominant conference, so he'd be seen as more battle tested. I don't think either prospect was or is as "sexy" as Leinart and Young. Whether that's a testament to ability or the size of the stage they played on, I don't know.
Damn that Pac-10! When DC plays against it, its easier, when Leinart is in the same conferance, its a tougher scheduele!

stevo3883
02-06-2006, 07:58 PM
WHAT?!?!?!? Coming out of college he had thrown for 4800 yards and 48 TD's. Coming out of college, he would be number one by a long shot.

um no, he wouldnt.

Numbers don't mean much when you play in a pass happy offense in the wac. im sure u know all about the ttech qb's.

talent is what they look at. Carr is similar to Cutler in athleticism and arm strength.

Vince is the best athlete at the qb position probably ever.

Leinart is the most polished qb prospect since peyton manning.

Both were high profile qb's under enormous pressure day in day out. and they always delivered.

sorry, but these 2 are two of the best qb prospects of the past 10 years. Carr is and was not.

Carr wasnt even visibly better than joey harrington....

and i would rank them
1. Young
2. Leinart
3. Carr
4. Cutler

Grid
02-06-2006, 08:07 PM
if it was based on college numbers..

Lienart
Carr
Young
Cutler

I rate him above Young because Carr has the tools to be the traditional pocket QB..and enough athleticism to roll out and avoid a collapsing pocket.

beerlover
02-06-2006, 08:15 PM
It took Big Ben only two years to hit Super Bowl pay dirt, the maturation evident with the teams full support upon his shoulders. He doesn't always throw it perfect but what he has learned is how to win and lead a team to a Championship. If I hear one more arguement for arm strength and athleticism I'm going to puke. Give me leadership and decision making first & foremost.

YoungTexanFan
02-06-2006, 08:17 PM
It took Big Ben only two years to hit Super Bowl pay dirt, the maturation evident with the teams full support upon his shoulders. He doesn't always throw it perfect but what he has learned is how to win and lead a team to a Championship. If I hear one more arguement for arm strength and athleticism I'm going to puke. Give me leadership and decision making first & foremost.

Well, if you just want to argue on those merits, your order would look like this:

Leinhert
Jacobs
Young
Carr
Croyle
Cutler

hmm....seems VERY similar to how I ranked them.

awtysst
02-06-2006, 08:18 PM
Young
Leinart
Carr
Jacobs

Carr had a great season his senior year but he played against the Pac-10. Leinart and Co rolled through the Pac-10 and vcame within a yard of the natlo championship. Young's versatility won the Natl championship so i place him higher then Leinart.

Texans86
02-06-2006, 08:22 PM
Carr would have a stronger arm than Leinhart and Young. He has plenty more mobility than Leinhart, plenty less than Young. Since he was in a pass happy offense, he was an accurate passer. Coming out of college, Carr would be considered #1 or #2, Leinhart and Carr. There are only two catagories that would be compared between teams, and that is the fact that Leinhart won two national championships while Carr didn't win any. However, Carr had more yards and TDs, and is more mobile. Young would still be considered the most athletic, but considering most teams use a pocket passer, Carr would be rated the better QB. Without a doubt I could picture Carr as the best out of the Young, Leinhart and Carr. Cutler and Jacobs I don't know as much about so I can't compare them. Carr's beating he has taken in Houston has skewed some people's perception of him. Teams in the NFL right now would take Carr over Lienhart and Young. And to Stevo who said that Young and Leinhart are some of the best prospects in the last ten years, which drafts have you been watching. First, P.Manning was in the lsat ten years, and hardly anyone doubts his mastery of the position. Then you have to look at C. Palmer, who with any kind of defense could easily win a Super Bowl. Younger Manning, possibly P. Rivers, Rothlisberger, these guys are some of the best in the league, and you are just discounting them as nothing. Personally, I would take C. Palmer over Young or Leinhart in a heartbeat. Half a heartbeat. These guys are good, but not the best prospects in the last ten years. Leinhart isn't even the conclusive number one QB anymore, given that Cutler and Jacobs have turned some heads since the Senior Bowl. Young is the biggest risk/reward quarterback out there in a long while. Still, I think Carr is either #1 or #2 coming out of college.

1) Carr
2) Leinhart
3) Cutler
4) Young

stevo3883
02-06-2006, 08:52 PM
And to Stevo who said that Young and Leinhart are some of the best prospects in the last ten years, which drafts have you been watching. First, P.Manning was in the lsat ten years, and hardly anyone doubts his mastery of the position. Then you have to look at C. Palmer, who with any kind of defense could easily win a Super Bowl. Younger Manning, possibly P. Rivers, Rothlisberger, these guys are some of the best in the league, and you are just discounting them as nothing. Personally, I would take C. Palmer over Young or Leinhart in a heartbeat. Half a heartbeat. These guys are good, but not the best prospects in the last ten years. Leinhart isn't even the conclusive number one QB anymore, given that Cutler and Jacobs have turned some heads since the Senior Bowl. Young is the biggest risk/reward quarterback out there in a long while. Still, I think Carr is either #1 or #2 coming out of college.

1) Carr
2) Leinhart
3) Cutler
4) Young

do you not understand the phrase "2 of the best"? that means that they are among the best, not that they are the best. jeeze....

and some of those names... rivers? roethlesburger? those guys werent elite prospects like these two.



and a little double standard there. You praise Carr for his athleticism, while shunning leinart for his. yet you then go on to say Young isnt useful to an nfl team because they want a pure pocket passer. so which is it? wouldnt this make leinart the best since he is the pure pocket passer?

Both young and leinart played much tougher competition in college, with much better resumes. both were field generals and both wouldve been drafted over Carr no questions asked.

you can say that jacobs and cutler are "turning heads" but come draft day it will go either VY/Matt or Matt/VY, scouts are just trying to act like they discovered a gem, but in the end botht he big names will go.

Texans86
02-06-2006, 08:58 PM
do you not understand the phrase "2 of the best"? that means that they are among the best, not that they are the best. jeeze....

and some of those names... rivers? roethlesburger? those guys werent elite prospects like these two.



and a little double standard there. You praise Carr for his athleticism, while shunning leinart for his. yet you then go on to say Young isnt useful to an nfl team because they want a pure pocket passer. so which is it? wouldnt this make leinart the best since he is the pure pocket passer?

Both young and leinart played much tougher competition in college, with much better resumes. both were field generals and both wouldve been drafted over Carr no questions asked.

you can say that jacobs and cutler are "turning heads" but come draft day it will go either VY/Matt or Matt/VY, scouts are just trying to act like they discovered a gem, but in the end botht he big names will go.

Actually I did miss "2 of the best" and just saw "the 2 best". Miss a word and it changes the meaning. I apologize. To clarify though, I would take Carr over Leinhart, because of his combination of mobility and arm strength. At the end of his college season, he was a good pocket passer (maybe not great, but definately pretty good), and he had good mobility outside of the pocket. His senior statics are pretty good. I would take Leinhart over Young because I feel he is the better QB at this point in time. Young was able to get much better at his passing this season, no one denies that. I still think Leinhart is a better QB. And since I think Carr is better than Leinhart, that means he has to go above Young.

So for those three, I still have it Carr, Leinhart, Young.

BuffSoldier
02-06-2006, 09:28 PM
Leinart will probably be the first QB taken this year, but coming out of college Carr had a much stronger arm and just as much accuracy. He may not have played against top comp., but neither did Ben Roth. or Cutler. Carr is also way more mobile than Leinart.

Young I think is the best QB prospect but not the best QB. He has the athletic ability and work ethic to be one of the greatest QBs of all time, but he still has so many questions to answer at the next level.That is why Leinart is rated above him now.

Coming out of college

....................Arm Strength.............Accuracy..............Speed
Carr:.....................10...................... ...9.......................5
Leinart:..................8....................... ...9.......................2
Young:...................9........................ ..8......................10

beerlover
02-06-2006, 09:44 PM
don't you think that teams should project picks out at least 3-4 years in their QB models? so one is developed more than another now (Leinart) but is probably already maxed out while the other (Vince Young) has a higher ceiling, the third (David Carr) has had 3-4 years and showed that he has not developed further than his days in Fresno. once again the main focus should be on how he handles the pressure cooker environment with media, fans, coaches, fellow teamates, opposing players, umpires and still win if not games the hearts of the fans :superman:

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2006, 09:50 PM
:superman: You can still go to google and find the archives of Carr's ratings .

I don't think I'd give Carr a 10 for arm strength . I'd give Elway or Jeff George a 10 but not Carr .

BuffSoldier
02-06-2006, 09:53 PM
:superman: You can still go to google and find the archives of Carr's ratings .

I don't think I'd give Carr a 10 for arm strength . I'd give Elway or Jeff George a 10 but not Carr .

Well a 9.5

thunderkyss
02-06-2006, 10:01 PM
I'm going to look at this question, as if the Texans were a college team, and Carr is coming out this season....

I'm ranking QBs, with my limited knowledge of college players.

1. Matt Lienhart
2. Vince Young
3. Jay Cutler
4. Omar Jacobs

This is totally based on Hype, and ESPN.

But if I were the Texans, I'd still take Vince Young. I like the idea of a mobile quarterback.... this is not the same thing as a running quarterback, I'm talking Montana, Favre. I'm talking mobile, athletic, playmaking. I like his leadership style. I like his loose demeanor, I like his poise under pressure. Barring a real bad interview, or a stellar interview by one of my top 4, I'd pick Vince.

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2006, 10:02 PM
:redtowel: I'd give Carr a 8.5 arm strength . How far or how hard you throw is not that big a deal when its the wrong throw .

MorKnolle
02-06-2006, 10:24 PM
I don't remember watching Carr in college at all as I didn't watch college football that much back then, but looking at his stats and some of his physical capabilities I have to believe he'd be one of the top 3 overall QBs along with Leinart and Vince, and right there with Leinart as the most NFL-ready QB, but you can't really compare guys from different years that easily as there are completely different set of circumstances surrounding all of them.

Spoda
02-07-2006, 07:41 AM
IF carr was a senior...and basing just on talent not if they were wearing burnt orange or not

1. carr
2. leinart
3. vince
4. cutler

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 07:45 AM
IF carr was a senior...and basing just on talent not if they were wearing burnt orange or not

1. carr
2. leinart
3. vince
4. cutler

Agreed. Based on the scouting reports coming out of college, there would be a toss up for the top rated QB between Leinart and Carr. Much like there WAS the comparison between Carr and Harrington.

Big B Texan Fan
02-07-2006, 08:27 AM
Carr was not a highly rated nor highlt sought after QB going from HS to college

Carr was red-shirted after his sophomore season while most other good QB's are either red-shirted right away or not red-shirted at all

Carr had a sub-par red-shirt junior season

Carr had only that one great season (it was pretty great though)(what was Fresno's out of conference teams played that season)

Carr #'s would've been the same in Techs' system and then we'd all be saying he's a product of the system

31 sacks as a senior :confused: thats alot for a college QB

Here's my order with some extra QB's included:
1. Palmer
2. Young
3t.Leinert
3t.Manning
3t.Rivers
6. Harrington
7. Leftwich
8. Carr
9. Rogers
10.Smith (ALex)

That list includes college career as a whole, senior season stats, strength of conference, leadership abilities, championships, bowl wins, bowl apearances, measurables, intangibles, etc...
:twocents:

Tha_Tinman
02-07-2006, 10:26 AM
not even in the first round.


Much like in '02 I'd be like ...who's David Carr?

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 11:13 AM
Carr was not a highly rated nor highlt sought after QB going from HS to college I don't know enough to argue this, but I don't see that mattering very much either

Carr was red-shirted after his sophomore season while most other good QB's are either red-shirted right away or not red-shirted at all Carr had Volek (now with Titans) as a senior in front of him that year, so redshirting him allowed to stick around for an additional season, and Volek was questioned as the started Carr's freshman season so that's why he was left on the roster then

Carr had a sub-par red-shirt junior season His stats weren't great but they were better than Vince and some of the other people you put above him on your list

Carr had only that one great season (it was pretty great though)(what was Fresno's out of conference teams played that season) It was one of the statistically best college seasons for a QB, but you could similarly argue that Vince only had one great season and sub-par earlier seasons.

Carr #'s would've been the same in Techs' system and then we'd all be saying he's a product of the system

31 sacks as a senior :confused: thats alot for a college QB

Here's my order with some extra QB's included:
1. Palmer
2. Young
3t.Leinert
3t.Manning
3t.Rivers
6. Harrington
7. Leftwich
8. Carr
9. Rogers
10.Smith (ALex)

That list includes college career as a whole, senior season stats, strength of conference, leadership abilities, championships, bowl wins, bowl apearances, measurables, intangibles, etc...
:twocents:

I'm not sure how you came up with that list if you were looking at just their college careers and not at what they have (or haven't) accomplished since then.

Coach C.
02-07-2006, 11:17 AM
wow, wow, wow. I mean what the hell are most of you people thinking about. Do you not know what Carr did in college at Fresno freakin State no less. Anyway WOW that is all that needs to be said I think.

thunderkyss
02-07-2006, 11:26 AM
wow, wow, wow. I mean what the hell are most of you people thinking about. Do you not know what Carr did in college at Fresno freakin State no less. Anyway WOW that is all that needs to be said I think.


Okay clue me in....... who's Fresno state..... that is something I'm missing. Maybe that's why he wasn't even on my board.

MorKnolle
02-07-2006, 11:40 AM
Okay clue me in....... who's Fresno state..... that is something I'm missing. Maybe that's why he wasn't even on my board.

Not necessarily on yours, but one particular list had guys from Marshall (Leftwich), Ole Miss (Manning, was a good prospect from great family line but Ole Miss isn't exaclty a perennial powerhouse), guys that had far less statistics and weren't on any better of teams, or guys with similar but still lesser stats in a heavy-passing stystem on another sub-par team (Rivers at NCSt.) all ahead of Carr. It also had Carson Palmer at #1 and Leinart at #3 after they were at the same school and had relatively the same level of talent but Leinart went 34-2 and won 1.5 national championships while Palmer did not accomplish those feats, Joey Harrington two spots above Carr after being picked behind him in the same draft and having an even worse NFL career thru four seasons.

BlueThunder
02-07-2006, 11:52 AM
I think I would rank them like this,,,,

1 Vince Young
2 David Carr
3 Matt Leinart
4 Drew Olson
5 Paul Pinelar

Kaiser Toro
02-07-2006, 12:15 PM
Okay clue me in....... who's Fresno state..... that is something I'm missing. Maybe that's why he wasn't even on my board.

That is the team that Reggie Bush played real well against, some say he wrapped up the Heisman in that game. :stirpot:

Big B Texan Fan
02-07-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure how you came up with that list if you were looking at just their college careers and not at what they have (or haven't) accomplished since then.
Just like you said, their college career, not just their senior season.

And it didn't show up when I grabbed your qoute but you mentioned VY in your dissection of my post. It seems as though you thought I was saying that since I believe Carr had these negatives in my opinion then I was in some way shape form of fashion pimpin' VY.

I tried to keep VY out of it but you brought him in. Thanx for argueing my point for me. You just can't get him off of your mind, don't feel too bad though. Neither can I.

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 01:16 PM
What everyone (including scouts) get caught up in are stats and physical tools. I think the best quality in a good QB is one you never hear about: decision making.

A QB who can make the correct decision of what to do on any play in the shortest amount of time has an incredible advantage. Its what Carr lacks and what Leinart has. Leinart will probably be a better QB than Carr in the NFL even though Carr is twice the athelete Leinart is. Its why Tom Brady is one of the greatest QB's of all time.

Carr should have shown some good decision making skills every now and then even with a bad supporting cast over the past few years. I can't remember seeing any.

Young has the passing talent, the quick decision making talent, and running talent. He is the trifecta of QB talent and will be a star for those reasons.

And under this hypothetical situation we're talking about, there is no way we'd pass up a hometown, record setting, NCAA championship winning, 2 time Rose Bowl MVP QB like VY and take Carr from Fresno St with the first pick.

Cjeremy635
02-07-2006, 01:21 PM
Ya'll aren't looking at this from the right angle. You are asking if Carr came out in this years draft then where would he be ranked. You have to consider it as if he was playing this year as well. What type of year would Fresno State have had considering strength of schedule with Carr as the QB with the type of numbers he put up in college. Who knows, maybe he could have taken Fresno to the championship game this year or maybe not. A lot of factors go into winning games just as much as a few lucky plays do. If he was in college this last year and it was him winning the national championship instead of Vince....the tune of this board would be quite different. (Just looking at the numbers from the senior year and what most people look for in a typical QB)

Htown34s
02-07-2006, 01:36 PM
If he was in college this last year and it was him winning the national championship instead of Vince....the tune of this board would be quite different.

Of course it would, but that is a HUGE if!

Cjeremy635
02-07-2006, 01:41 PM
I know it's a huge "IF", but the topic is about him coming out of college this year and into this upcoming draft. That means he would have been playing this last year and the whole thing could have turned out differently, hypothetically speaking of course.:stirpot: