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View Full Version : According to Justice, Troy Aikman May Help Carr This Summer


Tulip
02-05-2006, 09:44 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2006/02/sorting_through.html

In fact, Troy Aikman has been asked to spend some time with David this summer to attempt to explain the role of a QB.

I hope it works, but it's sad that it's necessary.

texan279
02-05-2006, 09:46 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3636913.html



I hope it works, but it's sad that it's necessary.

We can thank Pendry, Capers, Palmer, and our front office for this...

PapaL
02-05-2006, 09:47 AM
Year 4/5 in the league, and the they are just now explaining the role of QB? Very Sad. Make sure they go over how to put on a uniform next. I truely hope Carr is worth all this and turns it all around.

bdiddy
02-05-2006, 09:48 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3636913.html



I hope it works, but it's sad that it's necessary.

Sorry but I did not see anything about Aikman tutoring Carr in this article.

Kaiser Toro
02-05-2006, 09:51 AM
Is this a joke? It really can't be true, can it?

Tulip
02-05-2006, 09:56 AM
Sorry but I did not see anything about Aikman tutoring Carr in this article.

Thanks for the heads up. I still had the last link I copied in my clipboard. The link is fixed now.

nunusguy
02-05-2006, 09:59 AM
I dunno....is today April 1 ?

cap1
02-05-2006, 10:02 AM
Sorry but I did not see anything about Aikman tutoring Carr in this article.

It is right in the middle of the article after the quote from a fan. it goes like this,


"Someone told me that David is the last to practice and the first to leave. That's an exaggeration, but it makes a point. In fact, Troy Aikman has been asked to spend some time with David this summer to attempt to explain the role of a QB."

Kaiser Toro
02-05-2006, 10:07 AM
That is the highest paid player on the Texans. Pretty sad.

Tulip
02-05-2006, 10:12 AM
It is right in the middle of the article after the quote from a fan. it goes like this,

That was my fault. I had accidentally linked McClain's most recent article about Warren Moon instead of Justice's blog.

Porky
02-05-2006, 10:24 AM
This is really nothing new. It's no secret that Carr is more passionate and concerned about family and faith than he is football. Many of us have been discussing this for 3 plus years. Part of me finds that to be a very admirable trait, as I myself put family before work. But, there is a fine balance for all of us. Some jobs require much more from us than others, and we all then have to decide whether the additional income is worth more of our time and energy. And, for the most part, we aren't talking anywhere near the money he makes. For many, it's not worth it. Unfortentely, David has a decision. He either needs to put football number 1 in his life, above all else, even family, or he needs to quit, and do something that fits in better with his lifestyle. What he really wants is to have his cake and eat it too. For four years, this organization has coddled him, and acquiesced to his every whim, and it shows in his play. David, either get 100% dediciated, or get out. Maybe this explains why so many of the best QB's were/are bachelors and/or party boys with no children, who usually didn't show up in church on Sunday morning?

Tulip
02-05-2006, 10:24 AM
At least Aikman looks like the right man for the job.

From the same blog:

I saw Aikman arrive at 6 a.m. and leave at 9 p.m. One week they're playing Philadelphia, and he's the one giving Norv Turner a pep talk.

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 10:27 AM
Justice has on the "Vince"-goggles like some people on this board. Anything Justice says, I vow to ignore. I believe what I'll see with my eyes, not what I read by some slanted beat writer. If Carr can't do it this year without adequate protection, a relatively decent scheme, then I'll be all in support of removing Carr from the QB helm in Houston. But hey, don't ride someone out of town because he can't succeed without anything to help him.

On the note of Troy Ainkman helping Carr, I can't say that I wouldn't turn down his offer, if this whole thing is true. Ainkman was just solid. Everybody has a problem with Carr not acting like a leader, well I have a problem with McNair not acting like an owner, Capers not acting like a coach, and a defense not acting like a defense. JM:twocents:

Speedy
02-05-2006, 10:28 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2006/02/sorting_through.html



I hope it works, but it's sad that it's necessary.Why is it sad? Everyone needs coaching.

Tulip
02-05-2006, 10:31 AM
Why is it sad? Everyone needs coaching.

It's not that Aikman is being asked here to help Carr with his mechanics. His role would be to "attempt to explain the role of a QB". Why doesn't Carr already know that?

Dunta_23
02-05-2006, 10:32 AM
Maybe the fact that David is the last on the field and the first off goes a long way to show the commitment the team has given to him. They promised him help up front and he got none. He was probably worried he'd get sacked too many times in practice.

Tulip
02-05-2006, 10:36 AM
He was probably worried he'd get sacked too many times in practice.

Do you want to guess how many times David Carr has been sacked in practice?

Wolf
02-05-2006, 10:36 AM
heck didn't Roger and Andy get to "sack" Carr this season?

funny commercial, but kinda embarassing also.

Speedy
02-05-2006, 10:38 AM
It's not that Aikman is being asked here to help Carr with his mechanics. His role would be to "attempt to explain the role of a QB". Why doesn't Carr already know that?
Coaching doesn't always have to be about mechanics.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 10:40 AM
People wonder why Carr isn't the firey guy but to me, it seems the WHOLE team took the Capers philosophy (emotionally)

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 10:42 AM
Maybe the fact that David is the last on the field and the first off goes a long way to show the commitment the team has given to him. They promised him help up front and he got none. He was probably worried he'd get sacked too many times in practice.

I find that hard to be true. I'm not saying you are a Carr-hater or -lover, I am just saying that in general. It's quite easy for someone to say that Carr is the last to arrive and first to leave when you have the world's largest man-crush on VY.

Tulip
02-05-2006, 10:44 AM
Coaching doesn't always have to be about mechanics.

Okay. Well let's just say that I don't like that my QB has to be motivated by someone else from the outside. That he doesn't understand a QB's responsibility to his team. To me - that's sad.

Tulip
02-05-2006, 10:46 AM
I find that hard to be true. I'm not saying you are a Carr-hater or -lover, I am just saying that in general. It's quite easy for someone to say that Carr is the last to arrive and first to leave when you have the world's largest man-crush on VY.

Justice himself said that was an exaggeration.

Porky
02-05-2006, 10:48 AM
What's funny is the lengths by which some people will protect their boy. If Carr was a black QB from the wrong side of town, he would have been run out of town on a rail already. Teaching a Pro QB who was the #1 pick of the draft, and entering his 5th yr, how to be a QB is laughable. Yet, the defend Carr brigade somewhow manages to contort this whole thing into a positive. Funny, really really funny. lol:

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 10:51 AM
Justice himself said that was an exaggeration.

Oh, missed that. My bad yo...thanks.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 10:59 AM
I learned along time ago that Common Sense is taught.

It depends on what Aikman is supposed to teach him. Aikman was great on 3rd and 7 to throw the 5 yard pass early in his career.

I honestly don't know if Carr will ever be the franchise QB that we drafted..He has all the tools to be one,yet hasn't been in a situation to excell or even have the talent around him to exceed or even caper's scheme was handicapped. Also I blame the coaching staff of handing the keys to the franchise right off of the bat and when Carr struggled, they kept him in instead of getting Banks in there and let him show a different perspective of running our offense on game day


Here is my case in point.. 2002 we draft Wells and almost everyone wanted to run him out of town and what a waste on a 4th round pick ..yada..yada.. Our run blocking got better and DD moves into the starting lineup and does well (no pun intended) ...and lots of people are liking DD.. When Wells got to play with the same OL that DD got to play..running stats were about the same and people want to keep Wells now.

texan279
02-05-2006, 11:04 AM
It's funny now that I read the whole article. He goes on about his love for Vince Young then goes on to dog David Carr then goes back to the Vince Young man love thing again. And I love this quote from the article "David came from Fresno State, and then got coddled by the Texans. That's one of those mistakes we can see only in retrospect. They didn't demand enough of him." Coddled? Carr broke the single season sack record his rookie season and came close to breaking his own record this season. Sounds more like abused to me. And to say the Texans didn't demand enough from Carr, what can you honestly expect to get out of the guy? He plays behind the worst offensive line in the league and his #1 WR and RB have been in and out of the lineup with injuries the last couple of seasons. The front office talks about shoring up the offensive line so they go out and sign Victor "Turnstile" Riley. The coaches we had the first four seasons were horrible. How can you honestly expect anything more from the guy. And why is Carr the only guy being picked on? I saw AJ drop numerous passes this past season and no one talks about it, I saw Faggins getting burned on what seemed to be a week to week basis and I hear nothing about it. Fact of the matter is, no one really did anything special this season, the entire team and coaching staff is to blame, and I am tired of these guys writing the same articles over and over about their man love for Vince Young and about how Carr is not the answer for us at QB.

Tale Gator
02-05-2006, 11:12 AM
Four years and 46 losses too late IMHO.

texan279
02-05-2006, 11:14 AM
Four years and 46 losses too late IMHO.

Are you saying the 46 losses fall squarely on Carr's shoulder's?

Speedy
02-05-2006, 11:16 AM
What's funny is the lengths by which some people will protect their boy. If Carr was a black QB from the wrong side of town, he would have been run out of town on a rail already. Teaching a Pro QB who was the #1 pick of the draft, and entering his 5th yr, how to be a QB is laughable. Yet, the defend Carr brigade somewhow manages to contort this whole thing into a positive. Funny, really really funny. lol:It isn't any more funny than ALL those punching a Hall of Fame ticket for a QB who has never played a down in the NFL and at this time last year was being considered for a position change.

I don't care how talented you are, you need coaching. Whether it's the coaches on the team who are supposed to be doing it, or a HOF QB. Where it comes from really doesn't matter. The point is EVERYONE needs it and Carr hasn't had it.

Oh, and way to throw the race card in it. Brilliant....NOT.

Mr. White
02-05-2006, 11:29 AM
It's quite easy for someone to say that Carr is the last to arrive and first to leave when you have the world's largest man-crush on VY.

It's funny now that I read the whole article. He goes on about his love for Vince Young then goes on to dog David Carr then goes back to the Vince Young man love thing again.


I, for one, take great offense to bringing in to question the sexual orientation of people that just don't happen to agree with you. If they say something you don't agree with, then they must have a "man-crush" on VY.

How about this... these are probably straight guys that just don't think that David Carr is worth the money he's getting paid or deserves the status of a #1 draft pick. They also might think that VY would be better for the organization.

David Carr posed in designer duds in a GQ fashion spread while his team was still winless.
Maybe his apologists are the ones with "man-crushes."
"Man-Crush" Street goes both ways.

And it goes to real bad place...I think it's time to shelf it.

Vinny
02-05-2006, 11:32 AM
I've never associated a "man-crush" as a gay remark...even though I agree with the tone of your remark.

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 11:33 AM
I, for one, take great offense to bringing in to question the sexual orientation of people that just don't happen to agree with you. If they say something you don't agree with, then they must have a "man-crush" on VY.

How about this... these are probably straight guys that just don't think that David Carr is worth the money he's getting paid or deserves the status of a #1 draft pick. They also might think that VY would be better for the organization.

David Carr posed in designer duds in a GQ fashion spread while his team was still winless.
Maybe his apologists are the ones with "man-crushes."
"Man-Crush" Street goes both ways.

And it goes to real bad place...I think it's time to shelf it.

I hope I didn't offend you or anything yo...just using a silly expression. I don't take it seriously, and if you did, I'll try and refrain. You can say I have a man-crush on Carr, doesn't bother me. Sorry if I offended you though. But like I said earlier, just a silly expression.

texan279
02-05-2006, 11:34 AM
I, for one, take great offense to bringing in to question the sexual orientation of people that just don't happen to agree with you. If they say something you don't agree with, then they must have a "man-crush" on VY.

How about this... these are probably straight guys that just don't think that David Carr is worth the money he's getting paid or deserves the status of a #1 draft pick. They also might think that VY would be better for the organization.

David Carr posed in designer duds in a GQ fashion spread while his team was still winless.
Maybe his apologists are the ones with "man-crushes."
"Man-Crush" Street goes both ways.

And it goes to real bad place...I think it's time to shelf it.

I said nothing about anyone's sexual orientation, twist what I said anyway you want, but I said nothing about anyone's sexual orientation. I have no reason to take cheap shots at anyone on an internet message board, and frankly the comment wasn't even directed at you or anyone on the board.

ArlingtonTexan
02-05-2006, 11:38 AM
I, for one, take great offense to bringing in to question the sexual orientation of people that just don't happen to agree with you. If they say something you don't agree with, then they must have a "man-crush" on VY.

How about this... these are probably straight guys that just don't think that David Carr is worth the money he's getting paid or deserves the status of a #1 draft pick. They also might think that VY would be better for the organization.

David Carr posed in designer duds in a GQ fashion spread while his team was still winless.
Maybe his apologists are the ones with "man-crushes."
"Man-Crush" Street goes both ways.

And it goes to real bad place...I think it's time to shelf it.

A note on terminology: man-love or man crush as terms do not call into question a male's sex orientation or imply any sexual activity. It is away to describe male's admiration that borders on going too far, but not in a sexual manner.

SheTexan
02-05-2006, 11:48 AM
Something for all you couch coaches and Carr hater's to think about.

David Carr grew up a Cowboy fan! Troy Aikman was his hero, from what I understand. Why do you think he wears #8??!! Maybe he is personal friends with Troy and ASK him for some help? What is wrong with that, it he did? Vince Young has been tutored by Steve McNair since he was in high school!! You all are so quick to criticise without knowing all the facts. You take one simple statement and make something ugly out of it!! Shame on all of you!!!!!

I am sure a lot of pro players work out with other pros during the summer months. AJ is working out with Jerry Rice! Does that make him a BAD WR?? After two years shouldn't he already know how to catch a ball, run routes, etc.

You guys are just hell bent on bashing David Carr. It wouldn't matter to you if he worked out 16 hrs a day, seven days a week, divorced his wife, became an atheist (sp) and drank beer with Steve McKinney every night. You would still hate him because the stupid TEXANS didn't (or won't) draft the Steve McNair clone from Texas. And you guys think women are hard headed!!!!

Kaiser Toro
02-05-2006, 11:54 AM
Something for all you couch coaches and Carr hater's to think about.

David Carr grew up a Cowboy fan! Troy Aikman was his hero, from what I understand. Why do you think he wears #8??!! Maybe he is personal friends with Troy and ASK him for some help? What is wrong with that, it he did? Vince Young has been tutored by Steve McNair since he was in high school!! You all are so quick to criticise without knowing all the facts. You take one simple statement and make something ugly out of it!! Shame on all of you!!!!!

I am sure a lot of pro players work out with other pros during the summer months. AJ is working out with Jerry Rice! Does that make him a BAD WR?? After two years shouldn't he already know how to catch a ball, run routes, etc.

You guys are just hell bent on bashing David Carr. It wouldn't matter to you if he worked out 16 hrs a day, seven days a week, divorced his wife, became an atheist (sp) and drank beer with Steve McKinney every night. You would still hate him because the stupid TEXANS didn't (or won't) draft the Steve McNair clone from Texas. And you guys think women are hard headed!!!!

I was about to fight this one with some venom, but then I just watched the best human interest story on ESPN with the hanicapped kids playing flag football. Tear jerker. Much like the fact that it has taken 5 years for DC to ask or Aikman to offer.

Mr. White
02-05-2006, 11:54 AM
A note on terminology: man-love or man crush as terms do not call into question a male's sex orientation or imply any sexual activity. It is away to describe male's admiration that borders on going too far, but not in a sexual manner.

I get it, but my point is that it just goes to a bad place... like the "Brokeback Mountain 2" thread in another area of the MB.... like somebody posting that VY's supporters just "want to get into his pants."

Not real cool no matter who you're talking about.

TEXANS84
02-05-2006, 11:56 AM
In this profession, family comes second. Its been discussed on 610 many times, and David needs to realize that otherwise he'll be finding himself out of work.

Its a very disturbing thing to hear that the breadmaker of the Texans and the so called "leader" of the offense couldn't care less about staying and winning. Look at all the CEO's of major corporations: They come to work early and stay late. Thats what made them successful: the extra work.

Just like a major business, the Texans are a business as well. And in this profession, if you don't produce..they'll find someone who will.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 12:07 PM
fyi.. a workaholic is one that can't organize their time.

I am more about family than a job..

Everybody loves Earl Campbell and what he did for the Oilers... has anyone seen him in Austin lately.. seems he can barely walk.

BTW all the "practice" that is done for the texans won't help Carr on bit because we can't keep him upright on gameday.

What is really and truely sad is how our defense was. It was horrible and yet last year during training camp,the talk was about how the DL was tearing it up at TC against our OL... At the time I was thinking "Great, our defense should be improved" in reality it showed our OL regressed

*edit* for the record I am hearing two different stories on Carr.. one is he is staying late and arriving early.. the other is the opposite.. which is it????

SheTexan
02-05-2006, 12:16 PM
Much like the fact that it has taken 5 years for DC to ask or Aikman to offer.


Are you ASSUMING this to be fact, or do you know this as fact?!

How does ANYONE on this board KNOW for a FACT what any player does during the off season?? Who they hang with, who they PRACTICE with, who they vacation with, etc!!? How does anyone know exactly how much time any of the players are spending in the gym, working out with fellow players or eating Baskin Robbins 6 times a day!!

Why did I even respond to this thread??!:rolleyes: Justing biding my time until the SB comes on!!!!:)

Kaiser Toro
02-05-2006, 12:18 PM
Are you ASSUMING this to be fact, or do you know this as fact?!

How does ANYONE on this board KNOW for a FACT what any player does during the off season?? Who they hang with, who they PRACTICE with, who they vacation with, etc!!? How does anyone know exactly how much time any of the players are spending in the gym, working out with fellow players or eating Baskin Robbins 6 times a day!!

Why did I even respond to this thread??!:rolleyes: Justing biding my time until the SB comes on!!!!:)

As most often it is an assumption of fact.

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 12:19 PM
fyi.. a workaholic is one that can't organize their time.

*1: I am more about family than a job..

Everybody loves Earl Campbell and what he did for the Oilers... has anyone seen him in Austin lately.. seems he can barely walk.

*2: BTW all the "practice" that is done for the texans won't help Carr on bit because we can't keep him upright on gameday.

*3: What is really and truely sad is how our defense was. It was horrible and yet last year during training camp,the talk was about how the DL was tearing it up at TC against our OL... At the time I was thinking "Great, our defense should be improved" in reality it showed our OL regressed

*4: *edit* for the record I am hearing two different stories on Carr.. one is he is staying late and arriving early.. the other is the opposite.. which is it????

1. Props...I've seen both succeed equally, busting their butts at work and then spending quality time with the family. Props to you.

2. Concur

3. So totally on. I'm not saying the Texans offense was stellar, we all know that wasn't the fact. A Jr. High d-line could succeed against the Texans 2005 o-line. And where was our secondary...bloody hell.

4. Sit outside the practice facilities and log who comes and goes. That's the only real way to figure it out.

TEXANS84
02-05-2006, 12:24 PM
I am more about family than a job..


I agree as well, but when you bring your Dad to work for 4 straight years...that is a bigtime problem.

How many CEO's that make Carr money bring their Dad to work with them every day?

Wolf
02-05-2006, 12:26 PM
I think we lose sight that these guys are human... Marriage was one of the positives for Carr on draft day because he was mature and grounded.

I don't know about anyone else, but if a job comes before your wife or viceversa..well something is wrong esp when kids are involved.

now I know Carr is making tons of money and esp for the people that put their hard earned money up for PSL's and such and want to see a winner.. well remember this was a team wide meltdown over the season... How soon we forget that we gave up 40ish points on sunday night in Seattle

Mr. White
02-05-2006, 12:26 PM
FWIW, the only story I heard of was last season that he was showing up late and leaving early. On this board before I joined it.

Can't say I blame him. I've worked for inept bosses before and haven't done any more than was required of me...

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 12:27 PM
I agree as well, but when you bring your Dad to work for 4 straight years...that is a bigtime problem.

How many CEO's that make Carr money bring their Dad to work with them every day?

If you have achieved a CEO status, then you make enough to bring you entire bloody family to work, with all their own offices.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 12:29 PM
I agree as well, but when you bring your Dad to work for 4 straight years...that is a bigtime problem.

How many CEO's that make Carr money bring their Dad to work with them every day?


How is that a problem in this profession where you get to watch practices? Someone may correct me, but I haven't heard anywhere were Carr's dad is in the meeting rooms..if so then I think that would be a problem

Wolf
02-05-2006, 12:30 PM
FWIW, the only story I heard of was last season that he was showing up late and leaving early. On this board before I joined it.

Can't say I blame him. I've worked for inept bosses before and haven't done any more than was required of me...
you may be right.. I wasn wondering.. yet who knows why he left.. could have been to sit in the hot tub :heh: :hmmm:

Kaiser Toro
02-05-2006, 12:30 PM
If you have achieved a CEO status, then you make enough to bring you entire bloody family to work, with all their own offices.

I am sure stockholders and possibly Wall Street and the SEC would disagree with that policy. :spy:

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 12:39 PM
I am sure stockholders and possibly Wall Street and the SEC would disagree with that policy. :spy:

Most of those people don't even think that they have enough money to feed their families. Aparently, 20 mill isn't enough to put your kids through college.

Look, I agree with Wolf. I highly doubt Carr's dad has any influence when he comes to practice. Don't you think if he did, he would have been pushing for o-line help starting, oh I don't know, after YEAR 1!!!!!???

TEXANS84
02-05-2006, 12:57 PM
Look, I agree with Wolf. I highly doubt Carr's dad has any influence when he comes to practice.

If that was the case, then Carr's father would still be allowed at practices.

Texian
02-05-2006, 01:10 PM
This I know as fact, Mike Vick works with Steve Young 2 or 3 time a year for the last 3 years. Carr working with Aikman is no big whoop...Fact Kubiak believes in Carr and that David has all the necessary tools to be a winner. Kubiak knows what hes got with David, Vince is a box of Cracker Jacks, you never know what you are going to get. I ask the Vick and Palmer touters, how would they have faired playing for the Texans the past 3 years. I know nothing about Carr's work habits. I do know that I personally worked 12-14 hours a day for a boss I liked and inspired me. I only worked 8 hours a day and not much more for a boss who was a tirant and really didn't know what he was doing. This guy was good at making you frustrated, irritable, angry and a loner at work. You just wanted to go in do your job and get on with it.

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 01:10 PM
If that was the case, then Carr's father would still be allowed at practices.

Well let me ask you this: was Carr's father running practice? Was he in the video room pointing out the stunts the opponents d-line likes to do and when? Was he putting together the gameplan for the upcoming week? I highly doubt it. If he was, then we should bring Capers & Co. back and give them another chance.

Porky
02-05-2006, 01:26 PM
More of the same sob song. Do you guys really think a Pro QB bringing his Dad with him to practice endears himself to his teammates, or that it helps engender respect for him, and helps teamwork? Heck, why couldn't Lewis Sander's Dad be at every practice. How about Gary Walker's wife. I'm sure he would have liked that too. The truth is it makes him look like a wussy Daddy's boy. Not exactly someone you want to have as a team leader. It's extremely well known that this organization has coddled him, and that he has a poor work ethic. Keep on making excuses, it just makes for good laughter on on otherwise boring Sunday.

aj.
02-05-2006, 01:32 PM
cha ching...

More excuses and vehement defense to follow.

ArlingtonTexan
02-05-2006, 01:40 PM
FWIW, the only story I heard of was last season that he was showing up late and leaving early. On this board before I joined it.

Can't say I blame him. I've worked for inept bosses before and haven't done any more than was required of me...

If this is the case, that would say a ton of the type character that Carr has. It is his job to do his best despite circumstances.

profan
02-05-2006, 01:44 PM
More of the same sob song. Do you guys really think a Pro QB bringing his Dad with him to practice endears himself to his teammates, or that it helps engender respect for him, and helps teamwork? Heck, why couldn't Lewis Sander's Dad be at every practice. How about Gary Walker's wife. I'm sure he would have liked that too. The truth is it makes him look like a wussy Daddy's boy. Not exactly someone you want to have as a team leader. It's extremely well known that this organization has coddled him, and that he has a poor work ethic. Keep on making excuses, it just makes for good laughter on on otherwise boring Sunday.
Got to agree with you on this. Man, i love my kids but i do not attend all of their practices and this is high school and intermediate school. Got to let kids do things on their own. Especially when they are grown and married. What if every player brought their family members. Just not right and this organization needs to treat carr the same as all other players if he is going to get any respect.

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2006, 02:03 PM
:crying: The one dad who may belong at a practice would be Archie Manning . I'm betting Archie does'nt show up much because its Peyton's life .

I'm all about family but if I'm gonna be the the face of a franchise then from mid July to hopefully Febuary , I'm bustin my butt to get the job done and be the lead dog so the rest will follow . Then I get some down time with the family and can afford to go anywhere to relax .

David Carr and his dad were extremely naive to think that the NFL is on the same plane as Mayberry . I had myself talked out of Vince and trading down .

HoustonFrog
02-05-2006, 02:10 PM
I'll state this and then drop out of here. Two weeks ago I spoke of Carr not being a big practice or film guy and said that people were peeved at this. I got jumped like a jilted lover by Carr lovers. They told me I needed a source and was making things up. Right after that I wrote 610 and not only did they say the coaches were peeved at him and it was a leadership thing but now it is being brought up in other articles. Just saying where there is smoke there is fire. If the guy is to become what many want in him he is going to have to be 100% committed to being a QB night and day. Part of the job that pays that much money. Makes me wonder if alot of the Capers blame, which is warranted in part, shouldn't be attributed to a guy who wasn't willing to saty a little later and work out the kinks.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:10 PM
I would have to say no one had a problem with Carr's dad at practice the first few years and being this organization couldn't or didn't know how to get the offense on track, next thing you know they blame it on Carr's dad. at practice..

I guess people have to find faults with anything about anyone when we are losing.. and I am not a Carr homer or hater.. I know he can't read defenses well... I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) .. now with those guys and Kubiak is on board.. before we even get to the draft it is now "fire Carr's dad" talk..


some of y'all amaze me.

One thing I will agree with some of yall.. Our coaching staff did baby Carr..

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:13 PM
I'll state this and then drop out of here. Two weeks ago I spoke of Carr not being a big practice or film guy and said that people were peeved at this. I got jumped like a jilted lover by Carr lovers. They told me I needed a source and was making things up. Right after that I wrote 610 and not only did they say the coaches were peeved at him and it was a leadership thing but now it is being brought up in other articles. Just saying where there is smoke there is fire. If the guy is to become what many want in him he is going to have to be 100% committed to being a QB night and day. Part of the job that pays that much money.


if that is the case of him not studying film.. then I agree. I can't comment on any of that because I am not at practice..If Carr is one that isn't pulling his weight.. we need to cut our losses..

I just find it hard to believe McNair would keep Carr if this is truely what is going on and if McNair blind to that, it is a shame

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 02:13 PM
I would have to say no one had a problem with Carr's dad at practice the first few years and being this organization couldn't or didn't know how to get the offense on track, next thing you know they blame it on Carr's dad. at practice..

I guess people have to find faults with anything about anyone when we are losing.. and I am not a Carr homer or hater.. I know he can't read defenses well... I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) .. now with those guys and Kubiak is on board.. before we even get to the draft it is now "fire Carr's dad" talk..


some of y'all amaze me.

One thing I will agree with some of yall.. Our coaching staff did baby Carr..

Gosh!!! DC's dad was just as bad Capers & Co. I hope we get rid of him too. He really let the D down this year. P-Buch played better than DC's dad.

profan
02-05-2006, 02:22 PM
while, many of you don't mind having carrs dad at practice, i ask you what if every player brought family members to practice? I don't think it had an effect on carrs performance, just that their should be rules. If you had a bunch of relatives at the practices, then, it would become a distraction. Practice should be for players only, except for some open practices that everyone could attend. No just one parent.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:24 PM
while, many of you don't mind having carrs dad at practice, i ask you what if every player brought family members to practice? I don't think it had an effect on carrs performance, just that their should be rules. If you had a bunch of relatives at the practices, then, it would become a distraction. Practice should be for players only, except for some open practices that everyone could attend. No just one parent.

I agree with that,but that was between McNair ,Capers, Carr etc..etc.. and I am not sure what the logic is/was on that...

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2006, 02:24 PM
:evilb: If you have ever played beer league sports and wanted to go out after the game ...to like a well a Wendy's . Theres that guy who wants to know if his wife can go . This OK once or twice but after that he does'nt get invited .

I agree with Frog about the Carr rumors and I bet Kubiak's heard them also . The issue is can a Zebra change its stripes . Take Vinnnnnnnnnnnn .

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 02:28 PM
while, many of you don't mind having carrs dad at practice, i ask you what if every player brought family members to practice? I don't think it had an effect on carrs performance, just that their should be rules. If you had a bunch of relatives at the practices, then, it would become a distraction. Practice should be for players only, except for some open practices that everyone could attend. No just one parent.

Well I kind of agree with you. I know, that if I was a coach, I wouldn't allow anybody but players and coaches to practices. I just think that this whole issue of DC's dad being at the practices and then getting booted from them is so :brickwall dumb that people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I'm making fun of people who are thinking that DC's dad was the cause of his play.

MojoX
02-05-2006, 02:29 PM
I would have to say no one had a problem with Carr's dad at practice the first few years and being this organization couldn't or didn't know how to get the offense on track, next thing you know they blame it on Carr's dad. at practice..

I guess people have to find faults with anything about anyone when we are losing.. and I am not a Carr homer or hater.. I know he can't read defenses well... I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) .. now with those guys and Kubiak is on board.. before we even get to the draft it is now "fire Carr's dad" talk..


some of y'all amaze me.

One thing I will agree with some of yall.. Our coaching staff did baby Carr..
I think we can assume, right now, that there was a lot going on behind the scenes in the Texans organization these years. We don't know that Carr's dad was/wasn't a problem the whole time and it just took the impeding loss of jobs to get the coaches to ban him from practices.

What I see happening is a lot of stories about the "real" Texans coming out now that Capers is gone. (Could this be part of the factional infighting McClain and Justice keep referring?) I feel for Carr in that he is stuck in the middle of a bunch of poor coaching and personnel decisions.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:29 PM
for what it is worth.. Capers kicked sponsers/employees and everyone out, not just Carr's dad

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3456107.html

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:32 PM
I think we can assume, right now, that there was a lot going on behind the scenes in the Texans organization these years. We don't know that Carr's dad was/wasn't a problem the whole time and it just took the impeding loss of jobs to get the coaches to ban him from practices.

What I see happening is a lot of stories about the "real" Texans coming out now that Capers is gone. (Could this be part of the factional infighting McClain and Justice keep referring?) I feel for Carr in that he is stuck in the middle of a bunch of poor coaching and personnel decisions.


you may be right,because as much heat as Carr takes on the coaches.. I remember Coleman,Sharper,Glenn.D-rob and I believe Walker at on point having comments on the system we ran here.. but lots of it was hush-hush..

Fighting Blue Hen
02-05-2006, 02:32 PM
To explain the role of the QB? If Carr needs that explained to him than we are better off cutting him loose now.

Mr. White
02-05-2006, 02:38 PM
for what it is worth.. Capers kicked sponsers/employees and everyone out, not just Carr's dad

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3456107.html


Thanks for the link, Wolf. If Justice is correct, seems like much ado about nothing.

Porky
02-05-2006, 02:40 PM
The problem is that there was one set of rules for Carr, and another set for the rest of the team. I think that a professional QB making millions of dollars ought to be able to practice without his Dad. Having said that, the larger issue isn't neccesarily his Dad being there, but it does point out that the Texans ran a caste system, where the rules you lived by was determined by the pecking order. That does NOT help foster respect for said player or a cohesive team environment. Take that along with poor work ethic, lack of leadership, lack of film study, etc., and you have a recipe for disaster, and that's exactly what has happened. If they keep Carr, Kubiak and the entire organization must stop treating Carr differently than others, and as the QB making millions, and the "field general", they should demand no less than his maximum effort year round.

HoustonFrog
02-05-2006, 02:40 PM
if that is the case of him not studying film.. then I agree. I can't comment on any of that because I am not at practice..If Carr is one that isn't pulling his weight.. we need to cut our losses..

I just find it hard to believe McNair would keep Carr if this is truely what is going on and if McNair blind to that, it is a shame

And Wolf that has always been the rub with me. I'm not saying Carr isn't a quality person with his family, etc. I just heard the rumors swirl about this last season. Then people backed up what I heard and this is the second or third article where it has been mentioned. If you are going to commit the money, then they have to commit the time. The NFL is not easy on time, family, etc. If he'd rather do it his way then I don't like paying the money. I'm an attorney and if a firm decided to pay me a ton of money and I decided to start showing up at 9 and going home at 5, while others were burning the midnight oil, I wouldn't last too long.

Fighting Blue Hen
02-05-2006, 02:44 PM
The problem is that there was one set of rules for Carr, and another set for the rest of the team. If they keep Carr, Kubiak and the entire organization must stop treating Carr differently than others, and as the QB making millions, and the "field general", they should demand no less than his maximum effort year round.

I agree. This could be part of the reason why certain players don't respect him. The babying of Carr is probably part of the reason for his failure at the NFL level. The guy was spoonfed the job and never had to worry about someone taking it. I am starting to believe this has been McNair's doing more than the coaches.

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:46 PM
reading the article. Justice talks about drafting Peppers instead of Carr in 2002 and then 2003 draft Palmer and it cracks me up.. Did we address to OL in 2002 or 2003?Palmer would have ran throught the same system as Carr and Capers and co. would have been coddled him too.. we would not have had AJ if that scenario played out..

I have serious doubts that Carson would have had the success here as he had last season in Bengaltown.

TreWardTxn
02-05-2006, 02:49 PM
If Carr is still around Houston this off-season, he will be too busy learning a new system of X's and O's to learn anything substantive from Troy Aikman about being the QB, he can only tell him the same dribble we've all repeated on this board, its not as if he would be around to be sure he follows through during the season. It would also seem that Troy would be more inclined to instruct Drew Henson (the Cowboys pet-project at QB that has been put on hold) on the art of being Quarterback, as he will likely get the job after the Cowboys tank next year, Parcells quits, and Jones deals Bledsoe...

Wolf
02-05-2006, 02:49 PM
I agree. This could be part of the reason why certain players don't respect him. The babying of Carr is probably part of the reason for his failure at the NFL level. The guy was spoonfed the job and never had to worry about someone taking it. I am starting to believe this has been McNair's doing more than the coaches.

then that is Caper's fault and it cost him his job

I wouldn't blame Carr on that.
on blowouts and when Carr struggled.. I never understood why Capers didn't go with Banks or even with the 49er game this year.. why didn't Ragone play?

Fighting Blue Hen
02-05-2006, 02:53 PM
then that is Caper's fault and it cost him his job

I wouldn't blame Carr on that.
on blowouts and when Carr struggled.. I never understood why Capers didn't go with Banks or even with the 49er game this year.. why didn't Ragone play?

I agree in not blaming Carr, however is it truly Caper's fault if he was only doing what the boss (Bob McNair) wanted? Of course, I don't know if that was the case but it wouldn't surprise me when I see stuff like this.

disaacks3
02-05-2006, 02:58 PM
You guys are just hell bent on bashing David Carr. It wouldn't matter to you if he worked out 16 hrs a day, seven days a week, divorced his wife, became an atheist (sp) and drank beer with Steve McKinney every night. You would still hate him because the stupid TEXANS didn't (or won't) draft the Steve McNair clone from Texas. And you guys think women are hard headed!!!! You go girl! :rofl:

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2006, 03:16 PM
:challenge In time we'll know if its Carr or the system . The big question is how much were the Texans actions , influenced by what may be an average QB ?

Catering to Elway can be somewhat justified but if they catered to Carr and he's just an OK QB who leaves early from practice ... will kill a team .

Wolf
02-05-2006, 03:16 PM
I don't know about Justice.. I admit I don't read his stuff often except what is on here. I was suprised with this statement. I mean Matt won the heisman 2 years ago and turned around and put a better season after that except Bush did even better.

this is what I saw..
I believe David Carr is going to have a nice NFL career. I believe he's going to have a better career than Matt Leinart.

The Texans drafted him, then have given him only limited chances to succeed. If he has an offensive line and a tight end and another wide receiver, he'll succeed.

This isn't about David Carr. It's about the chance to draft a guy who's way, way different from anyone who has come out in years. Vince Young makes the Texans better, more interesting, etc.

Yes, I'm a Texas alum. I've been out of school 30 years. I'm over it.


http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2006/01/vince_and_the_t.html

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 03:32 PM
I don't know about Justice.. I admit I don't read his stuff often except what is on here. I was suprised with this statement. I mean Matt won the heisman 2 years ago and turned around and put a better season after that except Bush did even better.

I believe David Carr is going to have a nice NFL career. I believe he's going to have a better career than Matt Leinart.

The Texans drafted him, then have given him only limited chances to succeed. If he has an offensive line and a tight end and another wide receiver, he'll succeed.

This isn't about David Carr. It's about the chance to draft a guy who's way, way different from anyone who has come out in years. Vince Young makes the Texans better, more interesting, etc.

Yes, I'm a Texas alum. I've been out of school 30 years. I'm over it.

I agree with the first part, realize what a VY :homer: he really is. Leinart is soft, and I think he's going to get lit up when he get's into the pros. Justice seems similar to Nighthawk in the sense he wants VY because he's flashy, not because he wants to win a SB with whoever...JM:twocents:.

TEXANFAN23435
02-05-2006, 03:39 PM
Wow, McNair must be the biggest knucklehead, multi-millionaire on the planet. I mean, is he really the kind of ultra successful businessman who signs off on checks and has no idea what they're for and why??? Do you guys really want to believe...so badly, that McNair would give Carr a $8M check because he won't commit to becoming a better QB or did the "Carr Familia" really buffalo this highly intelligent businessman??? If this is true, I would recommend that most of us fans "JUMP SHIP". Seriously, if our owner is that short sighted, then what on God's green earth do you think he will do to turn this thing around??? ABANDON SHIP... ABANDON SHIP... NUMBSKULL AT THE HELM... ABANDON SHIP!!!

Another angle, everyone says Carr is not comitting to the team (must be gospel) well, I ask all of you... what exactly have the Texans comitted to Carr, besides a paycheck???

bigTEXan8
02-05-2006, 03:48 PM
I'll be the first to say, that if Carr was not committed to winning with the Texans, then I say ship his *** off the team. I remember talking to Carr while he was still in Fresno (I got to meet him once, great guy) and he was excited about going to Houston where they were kind of going for a "fresh start" in the NFL. It's easy to tell Carr wants to play for the Texans because he keeps showing up week to week for this team even though they have done next to nothing to aid his way in helping Houston football get to the top.

SheTexan
02-05-2006, 08:10 PM
[QUOTE=Porky It's extremely well known that this organization has coddled him, and that he has a poor work ethic..[/QUOTE]

How do you know this??

Porky
02-05-2006, 10:03 PM
How do you know this??

I listen and read various media reports, listen to player interviews, etc. As I said, this isn't a secret. It's been very well known that he lacks leadership skills, has a poor work ethic, and that he has been coddled.

Need examples?

Okay, how many players got to have their Dad on the sidelines during practice?

How about this quote about leadership from Seth Payne: "Tom Coughlin always said don't expect the QB to be the leader because he has too many other things to worry about.'' link (http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/)

Who do you think he is referring to?

When one of the olineman was asked (think it was Weigert) who was the leader of the offense, he had to think for a long time, and when he answered, he didn't say Carr. (this was a radio interview. no link)

There is really no doubt about this, and about what players within the locker room think. It's really not that hard to deduce at all.

Jack Bauer
02-05-2006, 10:06 PM
How about this quote about leadership from Seth Payne: "Tom Coughlin always said don't expect the QB to be the leader because he has too many other things to worry about.'' link (http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/)

Who do you think he is referring to?

Probably Mark Brunell, since he was the QB for the Jaguars at the time... ;)

chall8
02-05-2006, 10:23 PM
Just more confirmation to me that David Carr ain't taking us to a Super Bowl.

TEXANS84
02-05-2006, 10:24 PM
I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) ..

How? 2 wins is helping the offense along?

Palmer was a scapegoat. Capers thought that friends would help run this team better. I don't see Pendry getting offers from anyone, as he still is unemployed.

Jack Bauer
02-05-2006, 10:25 PM
How? 2 wins is helping the offense along?

Palmer was a scapegoat. Capers thought that friends would help run this team better. I don't see Pendry getting offers from anyone, as he still is unemployed.

Exactly. Pendry was out of the NFL when Capers came calling. Now we know why...

SESupergenius
02-05-2006, 10:28 PM
What's funny is the lengths by which some people will protect their boy. If Carr was a black QB from the wrong side of town, he would have been run out of town on a rail already. Teaching a Pro QB who was the #1 pick of the draft, and entering his 5th yr, how to be a QB is laughable. Yet, the defend Carr brigade somewhow manages to contort this whole thing into a positive. Funny, really really funny. lol:
That ranks up there next to the idiocy that Boselli's so called relative proclaimed he would be back to play for the Texans. Man you are just reaching for everything now. Weak. You must really of loved the job that Casserly, Capers, Palmer, Pendry and the oline have been doing. Did you also think the defense was solid too? bwaaahahahah.

Honoring Earl 34
02-05-2006, 10:36 PM
:superman: If the Texans win two in a row , me and my Dad will get our hair cut . Never mind I think Montana and his Dad pulled this crap already .

Wolf
02-05-2006, 11:01 PM
How? 2 wins is helping the offense along?

Palmer was a scapegoat. Capers thought that friends would help run this team better. I don't see Pendry getting offers from anyone, as he still is unemployed.


it was sarcasm .I meant to put a smiley for that sorry

edo783
02-05-2006, 11:33 PM
I listen and read various media reports,
listen to player interviews, etc. As I said, this isn't a secret. It's been very well known that he lacks leadership skills, has a poor work ethic, and that he has been coddled.

OK, you listen to people who have ZERO real knowledge and have just put forward suppositions. There is not ONE MAJOR writer for ESPN or any other reputable source that has ever said that. That has become an Urban rumore perpetuated by folks on this board. Mostly to support their own agendas.

Need examples?

Okay, how many players got to have their Dad on the sidelines during practice?

So WHAT. Unlike the other players his dad lives local and they are close. Was he interfering with the pratice session? NO Was he trying to tell the coaches how to play his kid? NO Was he interfering in any way? NO That is about as weak as those who complain he's good looking.

How about this quote about leadership from Seth Payne: "Tom Coughlin always said don't expect the QB to be the leader because he has too many other things to worry about.'' link (http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/)

Who do you think he is referring to?

Time when he was on another team. Last I heard, Tom Coughlin never coached the Texans.

When one of the olineman was asked (think it was Weigert) who was the leader of the offense, he had to think for a long time, and when he answered, he didn't say Carr. (this was a radio interview. no link)

No it WASN'T Weigert. It was the new kid who is the long snaper. Now here is a kid who is new to the team and he doesn't even practice with the starting offense. GEEEE real surprise, he didn't know.

There is really no doubt about this, and about what players within the locker room think. It's really not that hard to deduce at all.

THAT is total stinking pile of BS that is just made up and you are trying to pass off as somesort of natural truth like gravity. You are just making up and/or just distorting things to support your agenda.



That is what I think of what you have posted.

kbourda
02-06-2006, 12:47 AM
That ranks up there next to the idiocy that Boselli's so called relative proclaimed he would be back to play for the Texans. Man you are just reaching for everything now. Weak. You must really of loved the job that Casserly, Capers, Palmer, Pendry and the oline have been doing. Did you also think the defense was solid too? bwaaahahahah.

What is so *****ic about it? I happen to agree with this statement. Not weak at all. Very powerful, if you ask me. The only thing I don't agree with Porky on what he was saying about Carr placing his job before his family. I'll never fault a man for a decision like that. I think it's possible for a family man to be a great QB. I think the bottom line is you have it or you don't.

aj.
02-06-2006, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Porky
I listen and read various media reports,
listen to player interviews, etc. As I said, this isn't a secret. It's been very well known that he lacks leadership skills, has a poor work ethic, and that he has been coddled.

Originally posted by edo783OK, you listen to people who have ZERO real knowledge and have just put forward suppositions. There is not ONE MAJOR writer for ESPN or any other reputable source that has ever said that. That has become an Urban rumore perpetuated by folks on this board. Mostly to support their own agendas.

Why would John Clayton, for example, have first hand knowledge of something that local members of the media (who are at the practice facility up to five times a week) wouldn't? The local guys know more than you think - because of their proximity to the players and what they hear 'off the record' - but in a one horse town do they have anything to gain from throwing someone under the bus? What, is Justice going to tell McClain "ha ha, I beat you to that "Carr is not a leader" story, John!" Texans coverage is one reason I wish we had more than one paper in town. The other reason is more political.

The stuff about Carr's work ethic (beyond regularly scheduled practices and meetings) and how he is perceived by some team mates has been kicked around by the Chronicle guys and the SportsRadio610 guys for a while now - mostly on the radio - so that's really not new, and it's not some evil plot hatched by this message board's chapter of the 'Vince is God Posse' to plant bad seeds into the minds of the 'David is Peachy Keen Crew.'

TEXANRED
02-06-2006, 08:08 AM
I hate Justice. No, I really, really, really, really hate Justice. In fact, I would rather read a decades worth, and sadly enough have, of Afro man Dale Robertsons garbage than to read another line by this man.

I dont know why I try. Thinking maybe B/C I hold hopes that someday he will write something worth reading, or he has the inside scope on something that only he knows about.

Carr leaves practice early and starts late? Where is the proof? On this board we have to submit links and our sources and documents and have it notarized and put before a grand jury checked and then cross ref or our threads and posts get erased. He can just spout out things like Carr leaves practice first? Aikman to explain what a QB is supposed to be? What a schmuck.

He needs to get off of Vince's jock before Vince catches somthing.

I hate Justice. Anyone know what the short name for Richard is?:cool:

Jack Bauer
02-06-2006, 08:11 AM
He can just spout out things like Carr leaves practice first?

Just a note, I have proof that this is NOT the case: word from someone who is there for many of the practices, just (supposedly) like Justice...

Runner
02-06-2006, 08:35 AM
Well I kind of agree with you. I know, that if I was a coach, I wouldn't allow anybody but players and coaches to practices. I just think that this whole issue of DC's dad being at the practices and then getting booted from them is so :brickwall dumb that people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I'm making fun of people who are thinking that DC's dad was the cause of his play.

Just to clarify one point - Carr isn't the only Texan who had family members attending practices on a regular basis.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 09:21 AM
The stuff about Carr's work ethic (beyond regularly scheduled practices and meetings) and how he is perceived by some team mates has been kicked around by the Chronicle guys and the SportsRadio610 guys for a while now - mostly on the radio - so that's really not new, and it's not some evil plot hatched by this message board's chapter of the 'Vince is God Posse' to plant bad seeds into the minds of the 'David is Peachy Keen Crew.'

So true. As I said on another page I had heard this stuff last year and was told by the guys on 610 that it bothered the coaches and Both McClain and Justice have now brought it up recently. McClain did 2 weeks ago when he talked about the Kubiak hiring on how Carr had to make the decision to spend night and day with the guy watching film and working extra. First, I have nothing personally against Carr, just not sold on him. Secondly I don't want to draft VY so there that goes. My main concern has always been why pay a guy franchise QB salary when you have so many holes to fill and there are these questions about his work ethic and his development over the last 4 years?It is a team and money game to me.

thunderkyss
02-06-2006, 10:15 AM
If Carr is still around Houston this off-season, he will be too busy learning a new system of X's and O's to learn anything substantive from Troy Aikman about being the QB, he can only tell him the same dribble we've all repeated on this board, its not as if he would be around to be sure he follows through during the season. It would also seem that Troy would be more inclined to instruct Drew Henson (the Cowboys pet-project at QB that has been put on hold) on the art of being Quarterback, as he will likely get the job after the Cowboys tank next year, Parcells quits, and Jones deals Bledsoe...

This would be an insult to Drew Bledsoe and Bill Parcells. This has less chance of happening than Troy coming to mentor Carr.

TEXANRED
02-06-2006, 12:01 PM
My head hurts and my eyes are bleeding. Now we are gonna say Carr has 0 work ethic. Oh-my-Lord. I guess the old arguments are getting stale.

Carr is not an efficiant QB: Answer: Bad line, Carr has 0 time. Come back-O.K thats true.
Carr has a low completion rating: Answer: Two words-Corey Bradford. Come back-O right.
Carr is not a leader: Answer: Why cause he doesnt call his team out in front of the media? Come back-yep.:ok:
Carr would rather take a sack than turn the ball over to the opposing team so they can score on our P-thetic D. Come back: This is bad how?

Now we are going to take the word of a Houston Post, Hardy Boy reject that he leaves practice early? I hate Justice.

Remember when we had two news papers and the writting was pretty good b/c there was competion between the two? Anybody else miss that?

rafterticket
02-06-2006, 12:06 PM
If Carr is still around Houston this off-season, he will be too busy learning a new system of X's and O's to learn anything substantive from Troy Aikman about being the QB, he can only tell him the same dribble we've all repeated on this board, its not as if he would be around to be sure he follows through during the season. It would also seem that Troy would be more inclined to instruct Drew Henson (the Cowboys pet-project at QB that has been put on hold) on the art of being Quarterback, as he will likely get the job after the Cowboys tank next year, Parcells quits, and Jones deals Bledsoe...

Oh, my. So Troy Aikman, man-with-three-Super-Bowl-rings-Hall-of-Fame-QB-god, could only tell David Carr the same stuff as anyone on this board?

From reading your post again, I just realized that maybe you are a little slanted against the Cowboys.....could that be a little true?:)

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 12:07 PM
My head hurts and my eyes are bleeding. Now we are gonna say Carr has 0 work ethic. Oh-my-Lord. I guess the old arguments are getting stale.

Carr is not an efficiant QB: Answer: Bad line, Carr has 0 time. Come back-O.K thats true.
Carr has a low completion rating: Answer: Two words-Corey Bradford. Come back-O right.
Carr is not a leader: Answer: Why cause he doesnt call his team out in front of the media? Come back-yep.:ok:
Carr would rather take a sack than turn the ball over to the opposing team so they can score on our P-thetic D. Come back: This is bad how?

Now we are going to take the word of a Houston Post, Hardy Boy reject that he leaves practice early? I hate Justice.

Remember when we had two news papers and the writting was pretty good b/c there was competion between the two? Anybody else miss that?

Just so I understand how you feel about Carr let me ask you a question. David Carr needs no development work in any facet of his game?

SESupergenius
02-06-2006, 12:13 PM
What is so *****ic about it? I happen to agree with this statement. Not weak at all. Very powerful, if you ask me. The only thing I don't agree with Porky on what he was saying about Carr placing his job before his family. I'll never fault a man for a decision like that. I think it's possible for a family man to be a great QB. I think the bottom line is you have it or you don't.
Just because you agree doesn't make it any more legitimate. Quincy Carter had a lot of leesh and he wasn't even a part of an expansion team, and don't even get me started on Kordell Stewart. Porky's basis of putting color into all of this very *****ic.

whiskeyrbl
02-06-2006, 12:13 PM
I was wandering does Carr get sacked at practice too.Or is our Dline so inefficient he has a false sense of security on Sunday.I'm sure he can do more on his work ethic and fundementals,But my VY,give the guy a decent line and a RB that can pickup a blitz,and 4.5 seconds in the pocket and lets see what happens.

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 12:16 PM
107 posts so far on Justice's flip choice of words "attempt to explain the role of a QB." Brilliant--NOT.

If anything involving Aikman ever happened at all, the odds of that being the stated purpose by anyone is exactly 0. Jeez, talk about stupid overanalysis.

SESupergenius
02-06-2006, 12:17 PM
Why would John Clayton, for example, have first hand knowledge of something that local members of the media (who are at the practice facility up to five times a week) wouldn't? The local guys know more than you think - because of their proximity to the players and what they hear 'off the record' - but in a one horse town do they have anything to gain from throwing someone under the bus? What, is Justice going to tell McClain "ha ha, I beat you to that "Carr is not a leader" story, John!" Texans coverage is one reason I wish we had more than one paper in town. The other reason is more political.

The stuff about Carr's work ethic (beyond regularly scheduled practices and meetings) and how he is perceived by some team mates has been kicked around by the Chronicle guys and the SportsRadio610 guys for a while now - mostly on the radio - so that's really not new, and it's not some evil plot hatched by this message board's chapter of the 'Vince is God Posse' to plant bad seeds into the minds of the 'David is Peachy Keen Crew.'If Clayton and the rest of the "insiders" are so good at catching the "Carr's dad ordered off the field" and "Riley gets in a fight" then why did we not get the scoop on Earl when it happend? Please give me a name where someone said Carr was not a good leader.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 12:25 PM
My head hurts and my eyes are bleeding. Now we are gonna say Carr has 0 work ethic. Oh-my-Lord. I guess the old arguments are getting stale.

Carr is not an efficiant QB: Answer: Bad line, Carr has 0 time. Come back-O.K thats true.
Carr has a low completion rating: Answer: Two words-Corey Bradford. Come back-O right.
Carr is not a leader: Answer: Why cause he doesnt call his team out in front of the media? Come back-yep.:ok:
Carr would rather take a sack than turn the ball over to the opposing team so they can score on our P-thetic D. Come back: This is bad how?

Now we are going to take the word of a Houston Post, Hardy Boy reject that he leaves practice early? I hate Justice.

Remember when we had two news papers and the writting was pretty good b/c there was competion between the two? Anybody else miss that?

I'm not sure who this was geared to but my post up above said there are questions on his work ethic..not no work ethic. Just because you don't like the writings of Justice and other writers doesn't mean they still don't hear more than us considering it is their job. When I get an e-mail back from the morning guys at 610 confirming the questions that I heard last year...that Carr's lack of film time and not staying after practice irked the coaches and this same sentiment is repeated by two beat writers, then I'm going to start to think where there is smoke there is fire.

1) Bad line. Right but what about the sacks that are attributed to his inability to step up in the pocket, read defenses or throw the ball away...or how he locks onto one receiver?

2) Two words--Dirt and inaccurate

3) Leader--Ask his teammates

4) Fetal position at the first sign of pressure.

Again, not saying he is bad guy. This is an exercise to see if the franchise should pay franchise money for a guy that may be scarred and who may just be a middle of the road QB. Those are my concerns..not if he is a family man, etc.

TEXANRED
02-06-2006, 12:42 PM
Just so I understand how you feel about Carr let me ask you a question. David Carr needs no development work in any facet of his game?
Yes, he needs work on his game. I never ever said he was perfect. He runs out of bounds with the ball, he throws to hard in short passes and at times holds onto the ball to long and gets sacked. He has things to work on that a good QB coach will be able to fix in the off season. Nothing major. Its not like he cant read. There is much more of an up side to Carr then there are down.

My problem is the Vince supporters (Justice being the Grand PooBa) are starting to grasp at straws and make things up. Like Carr is the last to practice and the first to leave. I personally need conformation on something like that. Does that sound like Dom Capers? He may have been a dumpy Head Coach but he ruled his team with an Iron fist. He suspended Peek and Coleman(2x) for being late to a meeting. Do you really think that he would let his QB come late and leave early? Come on, lets use a little reasoning.

Maybe we can catch a small break. Justice will say something like "If the Texans dont draft Vince Young I will quit writting for the Chronicle and start writting for whatever team he plays for." Or "If the Texans take Bush I am turning in my pen and paper and moving out of this city." Please please O please let him say that.

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 12:45 PM
When I get an e-mail back from the morning guys at 610 confirming the questions that I heard last year...that Carr's lack of film time and not staying after practice irked the coaches and this same sentiment is repeated by two beat writers, then I'm going to start to think where there is smoke there is fire.

Yeah, could be--or maybe some little Frog is sitting under a tree rubbing sticks together looking for smoke. Here is your original description of what the guys at 610 said:

As for the work after practice. The response I received was, "While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though."

So maybe, MAYBE some coaches did is the same as an affirmative report the coaches were irked?--wow, not even close. No spin going on there.

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 12:58 PM
Yes, he needs work on his game. I never ever said he was perfect. He runs out of bounds with the ball, he throws to hard in short passes and at times holds onto the ball to long and gets sacked. He has things to work on that a good QB coach will be able to fix in the off season. Nothing major. Its not like he cant read. There is much more of an up side to Carr then there are down.

My problem is the Vince supporters

Fair enough, can't argue with the take.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 01:07 PM
Yeah, could be--or maybe some little Frog is sitting under a tree rubbing sticks together looking for smoke. Here is your original description of what the guys at 610 said:



So maybe, MAYBE some coaches did is the same as an affirmative report the coaches were irked?--wow, not even close. No spin going on there.

I don't think that is spin at all. What does "While David's work after practice has been questioned" mean then? Add this to the same article Zerline wrote that week making direct comments about Carr's film sessions. Then the McClain article saying he needs to start putting in full time with Kubiak, and then this and I don't think I am making it up. Listen, super moderator or not, it doesn't mean you are the Grand Poobah of knowing it all. Fine by me if you want to put on your little red and blue blinders and act like he is the greatest thing since your first lay but I'm just trying to figure out if we need to spend franchise money on an average QB so far. Isn't that something that should be looked at?By the way, wouldn't MAYBE and you saying "NOT EVEN CLOSE" be about the same exaggeration as you are accusing me of?Give me a break dude. Number of posts doesn't mean smarts on this board. I appreciate and like many of the things that you say but this is an unneccessary attack because people act like they know it all about their overpaid golden boy. I'm tired of having to look over my shoulder if I have an opinion on Carr. Especially since I'm not a person who wants to draft VY.

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 01:19 PM
I don't think that is spin at all.

Your right--spin was the wrong word. It is flat out misrepresentation. Once again since this didn't seem to clue into you the 1st time you misrepresented what was said on 610 am--have any opinion you want about Carr or anything else, but misrepresent things and you may very well get corrected. So this is plain:

HoustonFrog "I think Carr needs to work harder" or "Carr doesn't work hard enough IMO" hunky dory fine--any opinion you want

HoustonFrog "I have an e-mail saying the coaches are irked with Carr for not working harder"--total BS and misrepresenting things to the MB--not cool.

I'm tired of having to look over my shoulder if I have an opinion on Carr.

You don't have to look over your shoulder for having an opinion, you have to look over your shoulder for stating falsehoods. Carr may not work hard enough. Maybe the former coaches were irked at him. The fact is though that you have not received an e-mail saying those things are true and shouldn't represent to the MB that you have.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 01:32 PM
Fine by me if you want to put on your little red and blue blinders and act like he is the greatest thing since your first lay

terrible analogy ..... who among us would say that their ..... nevermind

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Your right--spin was the wrong word. It is flat out misrepresentation. Once again since this didn't seem to clue into you the 1st time you misrepresented what was said on 610 am--have any opinion you want about Carr or anything else, but misrepresent things and you may very well get corrected. So this is plain:

HoustonFrog "I think Carr needs to work harder" or "Carr doesn't work hard enough IMO" hunky dory fine--any opinion you want

HoustonFrog "I have an e-mail saying the coaches are irked with Carr for not working harder"--total BS and misrepresenting things to the MB--not cool.



You don't have to look over your shoulder for having an opinion, you have to look over your shoulder for stating falsehoods.

Again, how is my statement any different than yours?It can be analyzed anyway you like it. They said : "While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though." 1) His work has been questioned. This means by SOMEONE. Then they say it is not his teammates but "maybe his coaches did though." Sorry but adding that after the teammates comments led me to infer that the coaches had some problems. You telling me just the opposite and saying I am a liar and it is a falsehood is just as wide ranging as my inference. So who are you to talk?I took what they said as that there was a problem and the people who had the problem with Carr were coaches and not players. Considering that this was a quote from Lance Z's article the same week concerning VY, "In other words, he won't go home to watch film, he'll actually stay up at the facility and watch with his coaches (paging Mr. Carr... please report to the courtesy booth)..i can put two and two together. Add that to the articles by McClain and Justice and I'll put my inference against you calling it a falsehood anyday. Again, my main concern is money spent on the guy not if I like him or not. My bad for stating an opinion again, knowing that no matter how gentle I was, I'd get attacked by Carr's Flying Monkeys from the Wizard of Oz.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 01:39 PM
Again, how is my statement any different than yours?It can be analyzed anyway you like it. They said : "While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though." 1) His work has been questioned. This means by SOMEONE. Then they say it is not his teammates but "maybe his coaches did though." Sorry but adding that after the teammates comments led me to infer that the coaches had some problems. You telling me just the opposite and saying I am a liar and it is a falsehood is just as wide ranging as my inference. So who are you to talk?You do this with every poster. I took what they said is thwere was a problem and the people who had the problem with Carr were coaches and not players. Considering that this was a quote from Lance Z's article the same week concerning VY, "In other words, he won't go home to watch film, he'll actually stay up at the facility and watch with his coaches (paging Mr. Carr... please report to the courtesy booth)..i can put two and two together. Add that to the articles by McClain and Justice and I'll put my inference against you calling it a falsehood anyday.


wow is it getting hot in here or what? Is there any chance that the aforementioned "SOMEONE" is a poster (not meaning you specifically) on a message board? or anyone other than a coach?

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 01:41 PM
Is there any chance that the aforementioned "SOMEONE" is a poster (not meaning you specifically) on a message board? or anyone other than a coach?

Thank you. Fan, radio caller (since all of those have such high football IQ's), MB poster.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 01:41 PM
wow is it getting hot in here or what? Is there any chance that the aforementioned "SOMEONE" is a poster (not meaning you specifically) on a message board? or anyone other than a coach?

You may be dead right. I took it as the coaches. I don't think I should be attacked for the inference. 99% of the stuff we duscuss here is rumor, speculation, inferences and how you judge statements from coaches and GMs, etc. Considering that I am trying to give some level of inside knowledge to the people who cover them and this was the original report I heard...before attacked then..then I am taking the statement as that. Call me naive but I have a hard time believing 4 sports personalities have a grand conspiracy on Carr.

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 01:50 PM
You may be dead right. I took it as the coaches. I don't think I should be attacked for the inference.

Look, as I said above and the 1st time this happened--have any opinion you want, make any inference you want, but identify it as such and don't represent to people that the facts are different from what they actually are. Present the info clean so others can make their judgments.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 01:53 PM
Look, as I said above and the 1st time this happened--have any opinion you want, make any inference you want, but identify it as such and don't represent to people that the facts are different from what they actually are. Present the info clean so others can make their judgments.


yea he's right .... and normally (normal being something we remember longingly from about 6 weeks ago) this isn't such a big issue ... but right now just about everyone is aligning themselves with some draft strategy faction and waiting on someone else to look at them funny ....

Vinny
02-06-2006, 02:02 PM
Let's leave out the personal attacks folks.

Porky
02-06-2006, 02:04 PM
Just because you agree doesn't make it any more legitimate. Quincy Carter had a lot of leesh and he wasn't even a part of an expansion team, and don't even get me started on Kordell Stewart. Porky's basis of putting color into all of this very *****ic.


If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB. Heck Warren Moon is now a HOF QB, and he used to take potshots left and right at the first site of a bad pass. I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black. And Moon came from an affluent family, spoke perfect English, and came off very intelligent. Now take my fictional wrong side of the tracks guy who speaks in Ebonics, and comes from a poor background. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference between that and the Golden Boy. I remember going to an Oiler game, and I heard the N word shouted more than once. Take off the blinders man.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 02:05 PM
Let's leave out the personal attacks folks.


Ever vigilant Vinny .... fastest mod west of the Mississippi .... deleted my post before I could explain .... wasn't a cheap shot at you Frog ..... was just something I noticed while typing ... welcome to the board ... on a related note, your boss just called ... you're fired

Vinny
02-06-2006, 02:10 PM
Ever vigilant Vinny .... fastest mod west of the Mississippi .... deleted my post before I could explain I just happened to be here at this point in time. I didn't even bring up your name.

It's no biggie...but lets try to hammer the opinion instead of insult the poster please.

SA Fan
02-06-2006, 02:13 PM
terrible analogy ..... who among us would say that their ..... nevermind
:heh:

Good one Chuck M.

BTW, if Mr. Aikman explains how to be a QB like he explains the difficult concept of chicken wings like in those horrendous Wing Stop Commercials, the Texans are SO BONED.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 02:14 PM
I just happened to be here at this point in time. I didn't even bring up your name.

It's no biggie...but lets try to hammer the opinion instead of insult the poster please.

I'm sure I've done it at some point, but what I typed then was not an insult .... I suppose it could have been taken that way because obviously you did .... it wasn't, as I tried to state before everything disappeared .... but alas you have the final say ....

kbourda
02-06-2006, 02:18 PM
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB. Heck Warren Moon is now a HOF QB, and he used to take potshots left and right at the first site of a bad pass. I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black. And Moon came from an affluent family, spoke perfect English, and came off very intelligent. Now take my fictional wrong side of the tracks guy who speaks in Ebonics, and comes from a poor background. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference between that and the Golden Boy. I remember going to an Oiler game, and I heard the N word shouted more than once. Take off the blinders man.

Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. I would like to think that if Young, not Carr had been taking this beating for four years, it would be more Young's fault. Though most posters who agree with this will never state so in public or on a MB for that matter. I think VY is being cast in a very different and unfair light. And to put it simply, I feel he's the victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". Agree or not, this is what I feel is the case.

F-minus67
02-06-2006, 02:22 PM
Well, its good to see that everyone, with the exception of a few posters on this board want Carr to succeed.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 02:24 PM
Ever vigilant Vinny .... fastest mod west of the Mississippi .... deleted my post before I could explain .... wasn't a cheap shot at you Frog ..... was just something I noticed while typing ... welcome to the board ... on a related note, your boss just called ... you're fired

I probably will be. Just boring around here lately..lol

Sorry if it went overboard Vinny.

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2006, 02:28 PM
Well, its good to see that everyone, with the exception of a few posters on this board want Carr to succeed.

That is really what I see is the problem. Everyone wants the Texans to succeed, but here are many who would like Carr to succeed. Then there are those of us who think of his contract as a detractor to the Texan's success. Carr haters are Texans lovers first (this is a fact that resides in no foundation other than my puny little mind).

Khari how about a Radio Raheem smily with love and hate spelled on both fists?

Lucky
02-06-2006, 02:34 PM
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB.
So if you don't prefer Young to Carr, you are a closet racist. Thanks for clearing that up.

Just to get back to the quote in Tulip's thread starter:


In fact, Troy Aikman has been asked to spend some time with David this summer to attempt to explain the role of a QB.


Who has asked Troy Aikman to spend time with Carr? Kubiak has been on the job for what, 12 days? One of the first thoughts Gary had was, "I wonder if Troy is the guy to breakthrough to David?" You know, I just can't see that happening. I've got to believe that Kubiak wants to mentor David himself. In fact, Gary has expressed that desire in numerous interviews since he's taken the job.

I'm not saying Richard Justice has the story wrong (what would be the odds of The Chronic missing on a story?). I'm just saying that whomever setup the Aikman/Carr bonding session probably didn't get Kubiak's blessing. If Troy & David meet up this summer, it will probably involve a round of golf.

Jack Bauer
02-06-2006, 02:37 PM
Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. I would like to think that if Young, not Carr had been taking this beating for four years, it would be more Young's fault. Though most posters who agree with this will never state so in public or on a MB for that matter. I think VY is being cast in a very different and unfair light. And to put it simply, I feel he's the victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". Agree or not, this is what I feel is the case.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! You give no credit to Young with a statement like this. While I think we need to keep DC, I think Young would easily win over this Houston crowd and he would be defended to the end as Carr's most ardent supporters have defended him. Young has quite a charismatic personality. He won't have a problem getting people supporting him to a fault (as some see with Carr). You already see it on this MB. Young has not even taken a snap in the NFL and he is already on the HOF ballot for some. I personally think he will be very successful in the NFL, but I will never guarantee that. You can not guarantee someone will be a 100% surefire HOF before they even take the field in an NFL game.

Go ahead and continue to make yourself a martyr in your own mind.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 02:38 PM
So if you don't prefer Young to Carr, you are a closet racist. Thanks for clearing that up.

:stirpot:

Hey Frog if you thought the reaction to our little exchange was good, just watch this one .....

Jack Bauer
02-06-2006, 02:40 PM
I'm not saying Richard Justice has the story wrong (what would be the odds of The Chronic missing on a story?).

:highfive: :heh:

:wherewill

infantrycak
02-06-2006, 02:43 PM
When one of the olineman was asked (think it was Weigert) who was the leader of the offense, he had to think for a long time, and when he answered, he didn't say Carr. (this was a radio interview. no link)

That was Bryan Pittman, the long snapper.

Jack Bauer
02-06-2006, 02:44 PM
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB.

You only know what your standards are, so I am guessing you are the closet racist as Lucky has described? :hmmm:

Why would you say this? In 1976, yes. I don't really believe this is the case today. I know racism has not been eradicated, but this is not the way most people think now from my experiences.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 02:45 PM
That was Bryan Pittman, the long snapper.


yep it was and I may be mistaken but he mentioned Weigert as the offensive leader, so that may be why his name came to mind ...

HoustonFrog
02-06-2006, 02:53 PM
:stirpot:

Hey Frog if you thought the reaction to our little exchange was good, just watch this one .....

I'll take the breather on this one.:ok:

kbourda
02-06-2006, 02:56 PM
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! You give no credit to Young with a statement like this. While I think we need to keep DC, I think Young would easily win over this Houston crowd and he would be defended to the end as Carr's most ardent supporters have defended him. Young has quite a charismatic personality. He won't have a problem getting people supporting him to a fault (as some see with Carr). You already see it on this MB. Young has not even taken a snap in the NFL and he is already on the HOF ballot for some. I personally think he will be very successful in the NFL, but I will never guarantee that. You can not guarantee someone will be a 100% surefire HOF before they even take the field in an NFL game.

Go ahead and continue to make yourself a martyr in your own mind.


No, I give Young a ton of credit based on where he has come from and what he has accomplished is such a short time. The problem I have is when I see people laugh and dismiss the argument that Porky brought up. It is a concern and an ugly truth. And to be honest it makes me mad when I see QB's like Gus Ferotte and Trent Dilfer being recycled around the league to get chance and chance and chance again to prove that they really suck.

chuckm
02-06-2006, 03:00 PM
I'll take the breather on this one.:ok:

wuss ..... just kidding, just kidding :)

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2006, 03:03 PM
:challenge Kubiak thinks the QB has to be the man . Kubiak said the team has got to want to bleed for their QB . Anyone think with all the rumors and other events , this is the case ?

Micheal Irvin said he can tell which teams have IT by their actions . Irvin stated that its got to mean more than just catching a pass , thats your boy and you've got to help him . Does this sound like Carr and AJ .

Kubiaks most important job is to make the Texans potiental stars into stars . Carrs got to become a good QB and AJ into an All-Pro .

TEXANRED
02-06-2006, 03:07 PM
Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. I would like to think that if Young, not Carr had been taking this beating for four years, it would be more Young's fault. Though most posters who agree with this will never state so in public or on a MB for that matter. I think VY is being cast in a very different and unfair light. And to put it simply, I feel he's the victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". Agree or not, this is what I feel is the case.
O Jezzy Chreezy. Now we are going to bring race into this. Give me a friggin break. Enough hatred, racism and he said she said cause they are white, black, brown, yellow, red, purple, pocka dotted and stripped, goes on in everyday life. We dont need to bring it here to the MB. If you will sit there and say Vince is being cast in any negative way cause he is a black QB then you would have to agree with Rush on ESPN on how McNabb only gets the spot light and publicity cause he is black. Nothing to do with the athletes physical skills. You cant have it both ways.

How is Vince being cast in an unfair light? He is going thru just as much as any other top rated athlete coming out in the draft. So please dont point your finger at me and say I am a racist just cause I want to keep Carr. Yes at this point I do feel you are saying somthing to me personally b/c I am a hard core Carr supporter. Besides if that were true than people would be screaming for Lienart. Remember him? The best QB in the draft.

I think most of the Carr supporting camp feels that Carr has never been givin a fair shot and has paid his dues. If anything positive is going to happen with this franchise Carr deserves to be apart of that.

Now can we get back to the Anti Justice campaign that I am trying to spearhead?

chuckm
02-06-2006, 03:10 PM
And to be honest it makes me mad when I see QB's like Gus Ferotte and Trent Dilfer being recycled around the league to get chance and chance and chance again to prove that they really suck.

obviously you're feeling that a quarterback or quarterbacks of color, shall we say, got bypassed when these guys were "recycled" .... which ones did you have in mind?

lsmoreno56
02-06-2006, 03:44 PM
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB. Heck Warren Moon is now a HOF QB, and he used to take potshots left and right at the first site of a bad pass. I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black. And Moon came from an affluent family, spoke perfect English, and came off very intelligent. Now take my fictional wrong side of the tracks guy who speaks in Ebonics, and comes from a poor background. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference between that and the Golden Boy. I remember going to an Oiler game, and I heard the N word shouted more than once. Take off the blinders man.
I had season tickets for the Oilers when Warren Moon first joined the team and through it all I never once heard any racial slurs. We would not have put up with it. Why is this even being discussed? What could that possibly have to do with Vince Young? Leave the racial profiling out of it. It doesn't apply.

Jack Bauer
02-06-2006, 04:01 PM
I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black.

I don't know which call-in shows you listened to, but I used to listen to them every night while Moon was with the Oilers and I do not remember a single call on the shows like this. I am not saying this did not happen, but I don't think the racism was as wide-spread as you make it sound. As far as what was being said to you directly, maybe you should hang around different friends.

Porky
02-06-2006, 04:03 PM
Mission Accomplished. :stirpot:

titan hater
02-06-2006, 04:04 PM
I, for one, take great offense to bringing in to question the sexual orientation of people that just don't happen to agree with you. If they say something you don't agree with, then they must have a "man-crush" on VY.

How about this... these are probably straight guys that just don't think that David Carr is worth the money he's getting paid or deserves the status of a #1 draft pick. They also might think that VY would be better for the organization.

David Carr posed in designer duds in a GQ fashion spread while his team was still winless.
Maybe his apologists are the ones with "man-crushes."
"Man-Crush" Street goes both ways.

And it goes to real bad place...I think it's time to shelf it.

relax!!! it's only an expression...

TEXANRED
02-06-2006, 04:18 PM
okay everyone. Rub your ears and say woosaw. C'mon......woosaw, woosaw....I hate Richard Justice.......woosaw.......

Mr. White
02-06-2006, 04:42 PM
relax!!! it's only an expression...

I get you and I'm not as pi$$ed as I was yesterday when I posted that. My main point of that posting is that it just leads to a bad place. For example, the "Brokeback Mountain 2" thread in another area, a poster saying that VY's supporters "just want to get into his pants."

I'll admit that I got kinda bent. But, I said my piece and I'm done. I'll leave it up to the Mod Squad to regulate it when it goes too far.

No bad blood on my end....

kbourda
02-06-2006, 05:48 PM
O Jezzy Chreezy. Now we are going to bring race into this. Give me a friggin break. Enough hatred, racism and he said she said cause they are white, black, brown, yellow, red, purple, pocka dotted and stripped, goes on in everyday life. We dont need to bring it here to the MB. If you will sit there and say Vince is being cast in any negative way cause he is a black QB then you would have to agree with Rush on ESPN on how McNabb only gets the spot light and publicity cause he is black. Nothing to do with the athletes physical skills. You cant have it both ways.

How is Vince being cast in an unfair light? He is going thru just as much as any other top rated athlete coming out in the draft. So please dont point your finger at me and say I am a racist just cause I want to keep Carr. Yes at this point I do feel you are saying somthing to me personally b/c I am a hard core Carr supporter. Besides if that were true than people would be screaming for Lienart. Remember him? The best QB in the draft.

I think most of the Carr supporting camp feels that Carr has never been givin a fair shot and has paid his dues. If anything positive is going to happen with this franchise Carr deserves to be apart of that.

Now can we get back to the Anti Justice campaign that I am trying to spearhead?

Did I say you were racist? For that matter did I call anyone a racist? All I said was I feel VY is a victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". If you read into anything more than maybe you might have something to really say. I just made a mention that I happened to agree with Porky's original statement earlier in the thread because someone tried to make a mockery of it. I just want that person to know there are people that think like that( a Black QB can't succeed in the NFL). Accept it or not. I'm of the opinion if a player is good, he's good. If he's wack, he's wack. If you people don't see or choose not to see what the reality is, you're kidding yourselves. I'm not about to sit on a message board trying to make people see something that is as clear as the light of day.

kbourda
02-06-2006, 05:49 PM
okay everyone. Rub your ears and say woosaw. C'mon......woosaw, woosaw....I hate Richard Justice.......woosaw.......

Ok, so why do you "Hate" Richard Justice?

kbourda
02-06-2006, 05:52 PM
[QUOTE=Jack Bauer] I am not saying this did not happen, but I don't think the racism was as wide-spread as you make it sound. [QUOTE]

True but I don't think equality is as wide-spread as you make it sound.

TEXANRED
02-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Ok, so why do you "Hate" Richard Justice?
Cause he is white.

No kidding, joking. That was funny there, I dont care who you are.

Texans_Chick
02-06-2006, 10:12 PM
1. I do not like the form of journalism that impugns players without getting into specific situations or naming names. "Some say Carr is a loner" blah blah blah. That may be true or not true, but there is no way to say for sure whether it is true or spin because you don't have a sense of the quality of the source. R. Justice does a lot of that in his columns.

2. If the Texans felt that Carr set a bad example for the team, they should have said that to him explicitly. Often, it is easier to see the problems in other people than it is to see your own problems--especially with someone's first big job.

3. Carr might be unaware of his weakness or perceived weakness in this regard as he was considered a good leader in college. See e.g.: David Carr draft notes (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/carr_david.htm)

"Very composed under pressure, in the Brett Favre mold Ö Mature and confident field leader who is well-respected by teammates and very competitive with the opposition Ö Tactful in his actions, but will not hesitate to "correct" a teammate when needed"

"Has emerged as the premier quarterback in the nation Ö After being selected second-team All-WAC in 2000 -- despite working with an injury-riddled offense -- David took his leadership skills to a higher level in 2001"

4. I think that this controversy regarding leadership--whether real or spin--may end up helping Carr. If he stays, one would think he would be supermotivated to work on this area and perception. As it is, Kubiak says that it is up to both David and him to work harder to improve:

ďIíve been fortunate to be around two Hall of Famers in John Elway and Steve Young and watching them learn how to get there. It took John 14 years to win a championship but he kept fighting. Jake Plummer came to us from Arizona and a lot of people didnít think that he could get it done. But you surround him with good people who work hard and he came close. Heís going to get better.

ďDavid has all the skills that those players have. David has to do his part and I have to do my part in getting him ready to play, but I promise you Iíll find a way to make him successful because itís in him. We have to get the people around him to help him out."

Kubiak quotes found in a Florida blog--as an aside, they took that quote to mean that Carr ain't gonna be a Dolphin. (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2006/01/dolphins_wont_b.html)




I personally believe that 1. Carr will be back and 2. the Texans will not draft VY to get more tools around DC. It may be that the off-season VY draft commotion and anonymous and vague insults of Carr's work ethic may get him to work even harder than he was at both being a better QB and a better leader.

New boss, fresh start.

You just never know how stuff ends up working out in ways that you originally did not intend.

:texflag:

TEXANRED
02-07-2006, 07:49 AM
Did I say you were racist? For that matter did I call anyone a racist? All I said was I feel VY is a victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". If you read into anything more than maybe you might have something to really say. I just made a mention that I happened to agree with Porky's original statement earlier in the thread because someone tried to make a mockery of it. I just want that person to know there are people that think like that( a Black QB can't succeed in the NFL). Accept it or not. I'm of the opinion if a player is good, he's good. If he's wack, he's wack. If you people don't see or choose not to see what the reality is, you're kidding yourselves. I'm not about to sit on a message board trying to make people see something that is as clear as the light of day.
What stigma? Maybe I'm blind or just confused. Or maybe its just to easy to use the race card when critisizing a QB's play. Right now who are the biggest names QB wise? McNabb, Vick, Gary Cole...I mean uh Leftwich, Culpepper, even Gerrard-a back up-all widely celebrated.

I will say it again. Its to easy to play the race card. Like in an ealier post you had mentioned you were tired of seeing Dilfer and Ferotte continue to get chance after chance. Why? Cause of the color of their skin? Hate to tell you Rodney Peat was in the League nearly 20 years, Charlie Batch has a Super Bowl ring, Tony Banks plays for the Texans, Cunningham was in construction building marble countertops when he was brought back in to serve a second stint and play for the Vikings, Moon just didnt know when to quit, Carter was given chance after chance after chance until his drug habit took him out of the league.

Do you see what I mean when I say it is to easy to play the race card? It is an insult to any of the QB's that I had mentioned to have to name them off b/c of the color of their skin. I shouldnt have to catagorize them as the black NFL QB. They should just be mentioned as an NFL QB without any racial catagorizing.

But thats just the way I feel about it.

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 07:52 AM
Mission Accomplished. :stirpot:

This just means you have no argument. Defense mechanism: I was just stirring the pot (ie, I had no argument in the first place and was called on it).

:spy:

Carry on.

Porky
02-07-2006, 09:26 AM
This just means you have no argument. Defense mechanism: I was just stirring the pot (ie, I had no argument in the first place and was called on it).

:spy:

Carry on.

Hey, it's the offseason. I'm bored. What can I say. I don't post stuff that I don't feel has some basis in fact, but once in a while, I may exagerrate something for emphasis or to foster debate. Read into that what you wish in reagards to my statements in this thread. :spy:

kbourda
02-07-2006, 09:37 AM
What stigma? Maybe I'm blind or just confused. Or maybe its just to easy to use the race card when critisizing a QB's play. Right now who are the biggest names QB wise? McNabb, Vick, Gary Cole...I mean uh Leftwich, Culpepper, even Gerrard-a back up-all widely celebrated.

I will say it again. Its to easy to play the race card. Like in an ealier post you had mentioned you were tired of seeing Dilfer and Ferotte continue to get chance after chance. Why? Cause of the color of their skin? Hate to tell you Rodney Peat was in the League nearly 20 years, Charlie Batch has a Super Bowl ring, Tony Banks plays for the Texans, Cunningham was in construction building marble countertops when he was brought back in to serve a second stint and play for the Vikings, Moon just didnt know when to quit, Carter was given chance after chance after chance until his drug habit took him out of the league.

Do you see what I mean when I say it is to easy to play the race card? It is an insult to any of the QB's that I had mentioned to have to name them off b/c of the color of their skin. I shouldnt have to catagorize them as the black NFL QB. They should just be mentioned as an NFL QB without any racial catagorizing.

But thats just the way I feel about it.

Peete? Most of those twenty have been in the backup role. As with Batch, Banks, and King the same case. So bad comparison. I'm talking starter. Really, you making attempts to cover up this blatant bias is disturbing. It almost sounds as if you are trying to convince me that it isn't the case. It may be or not, I have no real way of knowing. But then again, neither do you. Like it or not. Choose to accept it or not. There is a world outside of your window. There are ugly truths and pretty lies everywhere. All I was simply doing was saying that I happened to agree with Porky's statement that he was (in a typical manner) basically laughed off as being ridiculous. I am full aware as to where I am posting. This is a message board where most on here are of the opinion that the world is a perfect nirvana. Well, i'm of the opinion that it isn't. I don't shoot down anyone's beliefs or thoughts. So why make attempts to shoot down mine?

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 10:03 AM
Peete? Most of those twenty have been in the backup role. As with Batch, Banks, and King the same case. So bad comparison. I'm talking starter. Really, you making attempts to cover up this blatant bias is disturbing.

HUH??? Every single QB you just mentioned was a bonafide starter at some point in their career. It seems to me that you tend to make the facts fit your argument. At least that is what I see.

There is no bias against "black" QBs today. Vince Young will be selected in the top 3 of the entire NFL draft. How is he suffering; because he is not going to be the number 1 pick? How shallow is that?

How many "black" starting QBs do we have today? Let's see:

McNabb
Culpepper
Vick
McNair
Brooks (not at the end of the season)
Leftwich (Garrard could start for many teams)

This was off the top of my head. I might have missed a few because I don't typically think, this QB is "white" or this QB is "black".

Which "black" QBs out there today who do not currently have jobs would you think could win a starting job right now? This has been asked of you once before, but you did not answer.

By the way, I am not sure why this thread turned into an everyone is biased against "black" QBs thread.

eagleputt
02-07-2006, 10:05 AM
Carr will be traded if Kubiak has thought about his future as the Texan's coach. His options: (1) Take Bush: Young becomes a superstar for any other team; coach fired. (2) Take Young: Young flops; coach did his best and stays as Texan's coach.
It's a no brainer...Kubiak's takes Young to solidify his coaching future.

jerek
02-07-2006, 10:25 AM
107 posts so far on Justice's flip choice of words "attempt to explain the role of a QB." Brilliant--NOT.

If anything involving Aikman ever happened at all, the odds of that being the stated purpose by anyone is exactly 0. Jeez, talk about stupid overanalysis.

Pretty much.

Besides, if Justice or someone else in the paper/news/[insert questionable, highly-senationalized source] said it, it has to be true, doesn't it?

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 10:28 AM
107 posts so far on Justice's flip choice of words "attempt to explain the role of a QB." Brilliant--NOT.

If anything involving Aikman ever happened at all, the odds of that being the stated purpose by anyone is exactly 0. Jeez, talk about stupid overanalysis.

Reading the thread, actually very little of the thread has anything to do with the title... :cool:

thunderkyss
02-07-2006, 10:39 AM
HUH??? Every single QB you just mentioned was a bonafide starter at some point in their career. It seems to me that you tend to make the facts fit your argument. At least that is what I see.

There is no bias against "black" QBs today. Vince Young will be selected in the top 3 of the entire NFL draft. How is he suffering; because he is not going to be the number 1 pick? How shallow is that?

How many "black" starting QBs do we have today? Let's see:

McNabb
Culpepper
Vick
McNair
Brooks (not at the end of the season)
Leftwich (Garrard could start for many teams)

This was off the top of my head. I might have missed a few because I don't typically think, this QB is "white" or this QB is "black".

Which "black" QBs out there today who do not currently have jobs would you think could win a starting job right now? This has been asked of you once before, but you did not answer.

By the way, I am not sure why this thread turned into an everyone is biased against "black" QBs thread.


Wow, I missed a lot on this thread.
1) there is a bias against Black QBs in this league..... It's not as prevalent as it used to be, because for the most part, teams have decided they want to win above all else. So for the most part, and as far as the Texans are concerned, I don't think it exists, or that it is much of a problem.
2) I doubt seriously that a black QB would have the same free ride David Carr has had......... I honestly don't think any QB Black, White, Puerto Rican.... would have been given the free ride David Carr has had....
3) I don't really know that it is a free ride. Dude has been sacked quite a bit, and he doesn't really complain like we've seen many an NFL athlete has. Now, I'm of the opinion that many of those sacks were either avoidable, or David's own doing...... once more people see it this way, David's ride will be over.
4) Quincy Carter wasn't given a fair shot by anyone(most fans) because he is black. the drug thing bailed most of the Quincy haters out. He had a very good season in 2003. Looked like he was making strides in his game, and he was saying all the right things. But they still wanted him out, even though he took the team to their first playoff game, in almost a decade. Mark it down, there will never be a black QB in Dallas, that will be supported by the fans, Vince Young or not...
5) McNabb, Vick, Cullpepper, won't win a SuperBowl. Untill they do, there will be a stigma against all running QBs, black or white. Even though I try to put Ben Rothlisburger into this group, he isn't.

TEXANRED
02-07-2006, 10:41 AM
Peete? Most of those twenty have been in the backup role. As with Batch, Banks, and King the same case. So bad comparison. I'm talking starter. Really, you making attempts to cover up this blatant bias is disturbing. It almost sounds as if you are trying to convince me that it isn't the case. It may be or not, I have no real way of knowing. But then again, neither do you. Like it or not. Choose to accept it or not. There is a world outside of your window. There are ugly truths and pretty lies everywhere. All I was simply doing was saying that I happened to agree with Porky's statement that he was (in a typical manner) basically laughed off as being ridiculous. I am full aware as to where I am posting. This is a message board where most on here are of the opinion that the world is a perfect nirvana. Well, i'm of the opinion that it isn't. I don't shoot down anyone's beliefs or thoughts. So why make attempts to shoot down mine?
First I would like to start out by saying that I am not trying to shoot you down. I apologize if you feel that way. I am however disturbed that you would have the opinion that any critisizim that is handed down about Vince would be racialy driven. Why? Have we become so conditioned in this country that anything negative written or stated about a black athlete has to b/c of his color. All athletes are put under a microscope in any sport regardless of race, sex, or religion. What makes Vince any better than any one else?

My comparisons of Batch and Banks are the same as your Dilfer and Ferotte. Unless I am missunderstanding you, Batch, Banks, king, Carter, and Stewart's talents are at a much higher level than that of Dilfer and Ferotte and warented draft picks for trades and or high dollar contracts to thrown at them. Not like the Dolphins and Browns are keeping Dilfer and Ferotte and making them the corner stone of there franchise. These guys are career backups who fell into a starting role this last season.

I am trying to convince you there is no blatent bias. There is no conspiracy and the man is not coming to get you. I understand there is a world outside my window, I also understand its the NFL and the best athlete gets the job. The NFL gains nothing by holding back an athlete that puts butts in the seat.

I just dont understand your point of view so that is why we are discussing this on the MB.

Jack Bauer
02-07-2006, 11:00 AM
Wow, I missed a lot on this thread.
1) there is a bias against Black QBs in this league..... It's not as prevalent as it used to be, because for the most part, teams have decided they want to win above all else. So for the most part, and as far as the Texans are concerned, I don't think it exists, or that it is much of a problem.
2) I doubt seriously that a black QB would have the same free ride David Carr has had......... I honestly don't think any QB Black, White, Puerto Rican.... would have been given the free ride David Carr has had....
3) I don't really know that it is a free ride. Dude has been sacked quite a bit, and he doesn't really complain like we've seen many an NFL athlete has. Now, I'm of the opinion that many of those sacks were either avoidable, or David's own doing...... once more people see it this way, David's ride will be over.
4) Quincy Carter wasn't given a fair shot by anyone(most fans) because he is black. the drug thing bailed most of the Quincy haters out. He had a very good season in 2003. Looked like he was making strides in his game, and he was saying all the right things. But they still wanted him out, even though he took the team to their first playoff game, in almost a decade. Mark it down, there will never be a black QB in Dallas, that will be supported by the fans, Vince Young or not...
5) McNabb, Vick, Cullpepper, won't win a SuperBowl. Untill they do, there will be a stigma against all running QBs, black or white. Even though I try to put Ben Rothlisburger into this group, he isn't.

The whole response is mind-boggling. Did you just pick a post to respond to or is this actually a response to my post. I find that the statement that I highlighted to be totally unsubstantiated and would ask that you offer some proof? Why would Dallas not support a black QB??? Regarding Quincy, the Jets picked him up and didn't think he was talented enough to keep ahead of Kliff Kingsbury.

TEXANRED
02-07-2006, 11:02 AM
Wow, I missed a lot on this thread.
1) there is a bias against Black QBs in this league.....
2) I doubt seriously that a black QB would have the same free ride David Carr has had......... I honestly don't think any QB Black, White, Puerto Rican.... would have been given the free ride David Carr has had....
4) Quincy Carter wasn't given a fair shot by anyone(most fans) because he is black. the drug thing bailed most of the Quincy haters out. He had a very good season in 2003. Looked like he was making strides in his game, and he was saying all the right things. But they still wanted him out, even though he took the team to their first playoff game, in almost a decade. Mark it down, there will never be a black QB in Dallas, that will be supported by the fans, Vince Young or not...
5) McNabb, Vick, Cullpepper, won't win a SuperBowl. Untill they do, there will be a stigma against all running QBs, black or white. Even though I try to put Ben Rothlisburger into this group, he isn't.
I dont understand how there can be a bias against black QB's? I just dont. If you are a coach whos job it is to win and produce and the best athlete is black, why would he pass on him when its his job on the line?

Warren Moon took four years to get the Oilers to there first playoff game so I dont see where you get David is getting any more of a free ride than Moon and last I checked Moon is black. (I know that is a little sarcastic but I couldnt help it)

Carter was a terrible QB. You wanna talk about a free ride. Wasent he a third stringer for his college team? Dont forget what got the Cowboys to there playoff game-1) NFC team where 8-8 gets you in 2) Cowboys had the #1 D that year.

Why cant Vick, McNabb, Cullpepper win a Superbowl?

thunderkyss
02-07-2006, 12:45 PM
The whole response is mind-boggling. Did you just pick a post to respond to or is this actually a response to my post. I find that the statement that I highlighted to be totally unsubstantiated and would ask that you offer some proof? Why would Dallas not support a black QB??? Regarding Quincy, the Jets picked him up and didn't think he was talented enough to keep ahead of Kliff Kingsbury.


No, not to you in particular, yours was the last in this line fo the thread before I decided to respond.

There is no proof to substantiate my beliefe. But I have no doubt. would love to be proven wrong.


to the other posters....


Quincy, I got kicked off the jets, because he popped positive again.... that was when I stopped defending him.

Warren Moon.................. I only caught the tail end of his carreer. If you're telling me his numbers were on par with Carr for his first four years, I'll admit I was wrong.

thunderkyss
02-07-2006, 12:52 PM
eason Team(s) Games Passing Rushing Fumbles Total
Points
Comp Att Comp % Yds Yds/Att TD Int Pass
Rating Rush Yds Avg TD
1984 HOU 16 259 450 57.6 3,338 7.42 12 14 76.9 58 211 3.6 1 17 6
1985 HOU 14 200 377 53.1 2,709 7.19 15 19 68.5 39 130 3.3 0 12 0
1986 HOU 15 256 488 52.5 3,489 7.15 13 26 62.3 42 157 3.7 2 11 12
1987 HOU 12 184 368 50.0 2,806 7.63 21 18 74.2 34 112 3.3 3 8 18
1988 HOU 11 160 294 54.4 2,327 7.91 17 8 88.4 33 88 2.7 5 8 30
1989 HOU 16 280 464 60.3 3,631 7.83 23 14 88.9 70 268 3.8 4 11 24


Comparable.... But his worse year, he threw for 2,327 yards in 11 games... wow. Okay, I was wrong about that. and i could be wrong about everything else......

Runner
02-07-2006, 01:05 PM
There is no proof to substantiate my beliefe. But I have no doubt. would love to be proven wrong.



Too bad it is impossible to prove a negative. :hmmm:

Double Barrel
02-07-2006, 01:22 PM
yikes.....can someone please give me back the last 30 minutes of my life that I just spent reading this thread? :spy:

So...Aikman wants to tutor Carr. The most I can muster is an apathetic :sleep: hope to see some results come August...

The majority of this thread is speculative off-season nonsense...a whole lotta' :blah:

anyway, carry on. Looks like y'all are having fun with it. :listening

NFLforher
02-07-2006, 02:33 PM
If that was the case, then Carr's father would still be allowed at practices.

Not true.

Yeah, the Trojans lost the big one this year but Pete has been letting the player's families come to practices for years.

WWJD
02-07-2006, 06:16 PM
I remember when I was in Dallas and Troy had some tough times reading an DMN article in which he said he called Dan Marino sometimes for advice of just being an NFL QB...that was Troy's hero. Roger also helped him out too.

I'd be very glad to have Troy's imput with David...it cannot be a bad thing to get advice from him. He's been there and done that. And if he's willing to help great!

powerfuldragon
02-07-2006, 06:51 PM
yikes.....can someone please give me back the last 30 minutes of my life that I just spent reading this thread? :spy:

So...Aikman wants to tutor Carr. The most I can muster is an apathetic :sleep: hope to see some results come August...

The majority of this thread is speculative off-season nonsense...a whole lotta' :blah:

anyway, carry on. Looks like y'all are having fun with it. :listening

couldn't have said it any better, myself.

thunderkyss
02-08-2006, 06:36 AM
I remember when I was in Dallas and Troy had some tough times reading an DMN article in which he said he called Dan Marino sometimes for advice of just being an NFL QB...that was Troy's hero. Roger also helped him out too.

I'd be very glad to have Troy's imput with David...it cannot be a bad thing to get advice from him. He's been there and done that. And if he's willing to help great!


The thing I find most intrigueing about the whole deal, is that someone else is bringing Troy in to mentor David(well that's the rumor anyway) I'd have felt much better, had we found out that David took the initiative himself to get the help he obviously needs......... of course, since he was given the job with no competition, has never had his job threatened, and wasn't given any coaching, maybe he doesn't think he has done anything wrong, and doesn't need improving.

WWJD
02-08-2006, 07:17 AM
Troy has said many times that he didn't start excelling until he got great coaching under Turner and Zampese....he had the tools to succeed but needed the know how.

Perhaps David and Troy are friends and speak on the phone..perhaps that's how this all came about.

Even the most accomplished person in the world needs a helping hand sometimes.

If Troy is willing to help David and David is open to his advice it can only help. Personally I already believe Kubiak will fill in alot of gaps in David's game.

Big B Texan Fan
02-08-2006, 07:50 AM
Troy is Carrs' NFL idol a far as modern day QB's go. He said so when he was asked about why he chose #8. Maybe thats why someone statred this thread about him getting tutored by Troy.