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View Full Version : Do we really need an early round Ugly?


mexican_texan
02-01-2006, 09:03 PM
I know we have the second-worst O-line in history, but wasn't the Line really good when D-Hog played? Pitts-McKinney-Hogdon-Wiegert-Wade (I think) did not allow many sacks. Everyone else should be replaced in at earliest 5th round.

Dunta_23
02-01-2006, 09:07 PM
Im all for drafting a franchise lineman in the first round, but also they arent the fancy pick that everyone talks about, what do you suggest they draft in rounds 1-4?

mexican_texan
02-01-2006, 09:09 PM
Im all for drafting a franchise lineman in the first round, but also they arent the fancy pick that everyone talks about, what do you suggest they draft in rounds 1-4?
We have holes at LB, TE, maybe a CB, and a S to replace Coleman.

texasguy346
02-01-2006, 09:10 PM
The line looked good compared to what we'd seen from them earlier in the season. They were in no way a good NFL O-Line. They were just better than the horrid play we saw early on. So to answer your question YES an OLineman should be picked in one of the first 3 or 4 rounds. Doesn't mean you have to spend a 1st Rounder on one, but I wouldn't mind seeing us pick up an OG to eventually replace Weigert and/or an OT.

F-minus67
02-01-2006, 09:39 PM
I just want to get someone who will give Carr sometime to throw and not have to run for his life.

thunderkyss
02-01-2006, 10:04 PM
Really depends on what we do in FA......... if we can land a LeCharles Bently, we can stick him at either Center, or Gaurd, which will greatly improve the play of the guys on either side of him.

dat_boy_yec
02-01-2006, 10:13 PM
Tapp DE second round
Parham MLB third round
Setterstorm OG third round
Mangold or Enslayer OG/C fourth round

That would go a long way to improving the team whoever we add after can also help.

awtysst
02-01-2006, 11:04 PM
Really depends on what we do in FA......... if we can land a LeCharles Bently, we can stick him at either Center, or Gaurd, which will greatly improve the play of the guys on either side of him.

Even if we get him, we still need to use a pick in the top 3 rounds(i would prefer round 2) to get a guard or RT.

Corrosion
02-02-2006, 01:19 AM
I know we have the second-worst O-line in history, but wasn't the Line really good when D-Hog played? Pitts-McKinney-Hogdon-Wiegert-Wade (I think) did not allow many sacks. Everyone else should be replaced in at earliest 5th round.


Hodgdon play about 2 and a half game's I believe (3 starts) .... the line did look better with him at C and McKinney at LG .

Milford Brown and Fred Weary started the majority of the season at the guard spots . They are likely the two worst (starting) guards in the NLF. This coupled with McKinney back at center is the downfall of the O-line . (I think both are free agents .... My hope is that in that case they dont return).

Im of the opinion that the Texans are weak on the interior of the O-line . So there doesnt have to be an early pick used to fix this.. Guards and Centers are generally found in rounds 3 and later . That being said , there is ONE Guard....Max Gean-Gilles.....I'd take in round 2 .... Although he's likely to be gone mid / late round one .

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 06:30 AM
Even if we get him, we still need to use a pick in the top 3 rounds(i would prefer round 2) to get a guard or RT.

agreed

Runner
02-02-2006, 08:22 AM
The line looked good compared to what we'd seen from them earlier in the season. They were in no way a good NFL O-Line. They were just better than the horrid play we saw early on.

Exactly - they went from hopeless to merely inadequate. Compared to the 2004 season they were poor, and the 2004 line had to block for seven step drops and a real passing attack. At no time did the 2005 line look "good" while running an NFL caliber offense.

Runner
02-02-2006, 08:29 AM
Im of the opinion that the Texans are weak on the interior of the O-line .

And yet we finished the season starting 5 guards. Fantastic coaching!

yourfavoritetexan42
02-02-2006, 09:53 AM
I would say Bush 1st.

2nd TE- A TE can make or break your offense. I really would love to have Fasano out of ND right here. Good blocker, great hands, great athlete- good all around TE.

Other Needs:
-Safety
-LB
-O Linemen


The reason why I am saying we dont need to draft an O Linemen is if you looked into the texans offseason program (ive stated this before) you saw their plan was to lose weight and gain speed...most retarded thing I have heard to do for an offensive line. We have the players- We need the coaching and the offseason training. An offensive line is the one position in football where you can take a mediocre group of guys and make them all stars with great coaching. We need a consistent starting 5 group that can work together, drafting one raw college offensive linemen isnt going to make the work easier for the other 4 linemen. It won't make a big enough impact.

The Preacher
02-02-2006, 09:54 AM
Really depends on what we do in FA......... if we can land a LeCharles Bently, we can stick him at either Center, or Gaurd, which will greatly improve the play of the guys on either side of him.

I guess this is what it comes down to. Getting this guy will instantly upgrade everybody, quite probably more than d'brick. If we don't get this guy or d'brick it could be a long year again. Hopefully Kubiak can work some magic but after counting on the gel method last offseason I would be skeptical to say the least.

Texans Horror
02-02-2006, 10:20 AM
It's been interesting to me that we have had so many posts concerning one of the last decisions the Texans will probably make. The upheaval in coaching was first, and now we are on to Free Agency. (Does anybody with Front Office connections know if the Front Office received many hits this season?) Once we have the Free Agents locked down, then we can better determine what Houston will do on Draft Day. Like is being posted around - if the Texans free-agent a center or tackle, then we can expect to get Bush/Young. If they don't pick that one up during Free Agency, I think we are more likely to trade down.

FWIW - I still think they will try to pick up a TE/Secondary in the second round and a LB/lineman in the third.

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 10:47 AM
and depending what is done with Carr's contract..... 2yr/3yr...... we'll have an idea of where these guys are really leaning.

BuffSoldier
02-02-2006, 10:49 AM
I would say Bush 1st.

2nd TE- A TE can make or break your offense. I really would love to have Fasano out of ND right here. Good blocker, great hands, great athlete- good all around TE.

Other Needs:
-Safety
-LB
-O Linemen


We need a consistent starting 5 group that can work together, drafting one raw college offensive linemen isnt going to make the work easier for the other 4 linemen. It won't make a big enough impact.



FWIW - I still think they will try to pick up a TE/Secondary in the second round and a LB/lineman in the third.



What???????

Were you guys being sarcastic? Please tell me you were... We dont need to draft any o-lineman...we should wait until the 3rd to draft o-line. Even the biggest Bush/Young lovers know if we take any skill player in round one than OL is the concern in round 2. I at least accept that view, but you have to be completely blind to say that oh.

Our o-line is fine the way it is??? We have the worst offensive line in the history of NFL football.


Oh and why would you waste a second rounder on Fasano when he is almost sure to be ther in the 3rd.

:confused:
Davis
Pope
Lewis
Byrd
Klopfenstein... all TEs rated higher than Fasano

BuffSoldier
02-02-2006, 10:50 AM
The reason why I am saying we dont need to draft an O Linemen is if you looked into the texans offseason program (ive stated this before) you saw their plan was to lose weight and gain speed...most retarded thing I have heard to do for an offensive line.

Its called zone blocking and fat, slow offensive lineman cant do it.

Corrosion
02-02-2006, 10:51 AM
And yet we finished the season starting 5 guards. Fantastic coaching!


Ill give ya 4 guards ..... Pitts has been a LT since college and its his natural position ..... When Riley was benched / CUT and Pitts returned to LT the line was much improved

HoustonFrog
02-02-2006, 11:22 AM
I know we have the second-worst O-line in history, but wasn't the Line really good when D-Hog played? Pitts-McKinney-Hogdon-Wiegert-Wade (I think) did not allow many sacks. Everyone else should be replaced in at earliest 5th round.

No we do not need to take an O-lineman in the 1st. We have the luck that this is not only one of the deepest drafts for O-line but that the talent level of skill players at the top blows away last year and most other years. We can still get a Bush or VY or a D playmaker AND get O-lineman with 3 of the next 66 picks.

infantrycak
02-02-2006, 11:41 AM
[B]Were you guys being sarcastic? Please tell me you were... We dont need to draft any o-lineman...we should wait until the 3rd to draft o-line. Even the biggest Bush/Young lovers know if we take any skill player in round one than OL is the concern in round 2. I at least accept that view, but you have to be completely blind to say that oh.

People made similar comments after 2002. 2003, 1st OLmen taken--3rd round (2nd pick in the round). People made similar comments after 2003. 2004, 1st OLmen taken--none. People made similar comments after 2004. 2005, 1st OLmen taken--5th round. Now it may not have been the best program, but acting like the Texans will or have to take an OLmen in the 1st or 2nd round isn't realistic.

Runner
02-02-2006, 12:12 PM
I guess this is what it comes down to. Getting this guy will instantly upgrade everybody, quite probably more than d'brick. If we don't get this guy or d'brick it could be a long year again. Hopefully Kubiak can work some magic but after counting on the gel method last offseason I would be skeptical to say the least.

Bently would have a far greater first year impact than Ferguson.

Runner
02-02-2006, 12:21 PM
Ill give ya 4 guards ..... Pitts has been a LT since college and its his natural position ..... When Riley was benched / CUT and Pitts returned to LT the line was much improved

I disagree that Pitts is a better tackle than he is a guard. Admittedly, that puts me in a definite minority on this board.

I will admit he's a better tackle than Wade, Riley or Weigert who were all used at tackle by the old regime, so it was probably wise to play him there. As I've stated elsewhere, I think he and Wand will man the tackles next season with a free agent upgrade to the interior of the line. I expect draft picks to be used to groom another tackle and another guard for the future.

Samer
02-02-2006, 12:24 PM
It is obvious we need a offensive line, no question about it, but it does seem that everyone is relying on the draft to fix all of our needs. We need to make an impact on the FA market, picking up a couple of veterens who can provide leadership to players in their position. If we can manage to get bentley, he can definately make an impact and improve our oliine, he will do a lot better than Ferguson and is already proven

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 12:36 PM
It is obvious we need a offensive line, no question about it, but it does seem that everyone is relying on the draft to fix all of our needs. We need to make an impact on the FA market, picking up a couple of veterens who can provide leadership to players in their position. If we can manage to get bentley, he can definately make an impact and improve our oliine, he will do a lot better than Ferguson and is already proven


Why do we need an offensive line again?? Our guys aren't really that bad, they never had a fair chance with that group of clowns we had as coaches last year. We should give all of them the benefit of the doubt, and give them a fair chance to show us what they can really do, with some real coaching...... They may take us to the superbowl, once they learn zone blocking from the master.. maybe he can even teach them to pull, and move the pocket so David can roll out more.

BuffSoldier
02-02-2006, 03:23 PM
People made similar comments after 2002. 2003, 1st OLmen taken--3rd round (2nd pick in the round). People made similar comments after 2003. 2004, 1st OLmen taken--none. People made similar comments after 2004. 2005, 1st OLmen taken--5th round. Now it may not have been the best program, but acting like the Texans will or have to take an OLmen in the 1st or 2nd round isn't realistic.

And our o-line still sucks... your point. I have never said that the Texans must take any o-lineman, but if they dont (in the 1st two rounds) I would really question what Kubiak is doing, I think McNair would too. I think that the best way to fix the problem the quickest is by taking advantage of ther deep o-line draft.

You are right the o-line hasnt been addressed but theat partly why Capers was fired.

infantrycak
02-02-2006, 03:35 PM
And our o-line still sucks... your point.

My main point is things are not near as clear or absolute as you were stating. More generally, for some reason there is a strange phenomena in the draft forum where tons of people think and act as if they know exactly what is going to happen about what is probably one of the least predictable events in football--the draft.

I have never said that the Texans must take any o-lineman, but if they dont (in the 1st two rounds) I would really question what Kubiak is doing, I think McNair would too. I think that the best way to fix the problem the quickest is by taking advantage of ther deep o-line draft.


If Kubiack tries to build the OL in the same fashion as Denver and its closest comparison, Atlanta, high picks on the OL may not be real likely or a good use of picks. Denver and Atlanta have 1 first day draft pick each on their OL's (1 1st and 1 2nd). The remainder is made up of 2 4th's, 1 5th, 4 7th's and an undrafted player. By comparison, the Texans are already relatively stacked with 3 2nd rounders on the line.

Every year people think they can prioritize needs and predict the draft and every year they are surprised and disappointed when teams don't follow that formula.

Corrosion
02-02-2006, 03:54 PM
People made similar comments after 2002. 2003, 1st OLmen taken--3rd round (2nd pick in the round). People made similar comments after 2003. 2004, 1st OLmen taken--none. People made similar comments after 2004. 2005, 1st OLmen taken--5th round. Now it may not have been the best program, but acting like the Texans will or have to take an OLmen in the 1st or 2nd round isn't realistic.


I dont think we can expect the same type of drafting with Casserly/Kubiak as we did with Casserly/Capers . Their philosophies are quite different . The systems will be different and I would bet you wont see them SIT on a lead w/ Kubiak at the helm . But thats for another thread .....

Considering the O-line is easily the weakest unit on this team it would make sense to start there . It may not be in the first round .... Bush , Young , M.Williams , AJ Hawk or any of a multitude of others could prove to be too good to pass up .... But the O-line WILL be fixxed ... This comes straight from the mouth of our new HC :spy:

Runner
02-02-2006, 04:04 PM
.... But the O-line WILL be fixxed ... This comes straight from the mouth of our new HC :spy:


By draft, free agents, and/or coaching.

Corrosion
02-02-2006, 04:22 PM
By draft, free agents, and/or coaching.


Kubiak didnt go sa far as to tell me how ..... Just that it is top priority on the offensive side .

Runner
02-02-2006, 05:56 PM
Kubiak didnt go sa far as to tell me how ..... Just that it is top priority on the offensive side .

I know - I was just commenting that we have many options, of which the draft is just one component. I should have been more clear.

Corrosion
02-02-2006, 08:14 PM
I know - I was just commenting that we have many options, of which the draft is just one component. I should have been more clear.


You are correct .... there are many options ..... For what its worth , I dont think Kubiak himself knows exactly how he's gonna address the situation yet .
He's got to complete his staff then together with them evaluate his team and the prospective draftee's / free-agents before that can be he could make a sound decision :cool:

dat_boy_yec
02-02-2006, 09:01 PM
Hodgdon play about 2 and a half game's I believe (3 starts) .... the line did look better with him at C and McKinney at LG .

Milford Brown and Fred Weary started the majority of the season at the guard spots . They are likely the two worst (starting) guards in the NLF. This coupled with McKinney back at center is the downfall of the O-line . (I think both are free agents .... My hope is that in that case they dont return).

Im of the opinion that the Texans are weak on the interior of the O-line . So there doesnt have to be an early pick used to fix this.. Guards and Centers are generally found in rounds 3 and later . That being said , there is ONE Guard....Max Gean-Gilles.....I'd take in round 2 .... Although he's likely to be gone mid / late round one .

Dude I hate to break it to you, but Weary didn't start playing until near the end of the season. I know this because when they did put him in I was like who the hell is this guy, I didn't even know he existed. All that aside I think he did ok. Brown is horrible I won't try to stick up for him at all. However I believe we can find a great guard with one of our third rd. picks.

Mightymike
02-02-2006, 10:14 PM
draft opinions

if we decide to draft bush....
trade down with titans to pick #3
why? you don't have to pay as much for salary, extra picks, n.o. would take leinart so we wouldn't lose anything

if we decide to draft vince....
take him #1 and draft around him

if we decide to trade down....
jets or packers and draft mario williams
take oline in 2nd round, get picks for this year rather than next year

if we decide to take d'brick....
trade down to jets or packers, but wait till 3-4 round to draft another oline