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eclem5
02-01-2006, 05:56 PM
:stirpot: Who is the best Running Back in the Draft? Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams or Lendale White.

D-ReK
02-01-2006, 06:07 PM
:stirpot: Who is the best Running Back in the Draft? Reggie Bush, DeMario Williams or Lendell White.

I'm assuming you mean Deangelo Williams and LenDale White...

IMO, Williams is the best pure back of the three, but Bush is more of an impact player...

Blake
02-01-2006, 06:10 PM
:stirpot: Who is the best Running Back in the Draft? Reggie Bush, DeMario Williams or Lendell White.

Bush
Williams
Maroney
Calhoun
Addai
White

Huge
02-01-2006, 06:16 PM
DeAngelo Williams

Said as much during the Motor City Bowl.

Texans>Colts
02-01-2006, 06:17 PM
Bush

Apoch
02-01-2006, 06:23 PM
Reggie Bush...

...he is also the best player period.

Huge
02-01-2006, 06:24 PM
Previously discussing DeAngelo Williams (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16136&highlight=DeAngelo+Williams)

rmartin65
02-01-2006, 06:45 PM
Deangelo Williams followed by Maroney. These two players have been doing great their entire career. Williams is like 3rd alltime in NCAA rushing yard and Maroney has had over 1000 each year, even though he split carries with Marion Barber III. Bush is a great all-round player, but as the question was best RB, those two have to be tops.

dat_boy_yec
02-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Bush.

CenTexNative
02-01-2006, 07:12 PM
In my opinion it has to be Lendell White.

Apoch
02-01-2006, 07:43 PM
I realize I need to back up my opinion more...

Reggie Bush in 2005...

Winner of the Doak Walker Award

The prestigious Doak Walker Award was created in 1989 to recognize the nation's premier running back for his accomplishments on the field, achievement in the classroom and citizenship in the community. It is the only major collegiate football award that requires all candidates to be in good academic standing and on schedule to graduate within one year of other students of the same classification.

Winner of the Walter Camp Award

The Walter Camp Award, named in honor of the father of football, is given annually to the College football Player of the Year, as selected by Division 1A coaches and Sports Information directors.

Winner of the Heismann Trophy

...given to the best player in College Football.

Was third in the Nation with 1740 rushing yards, but had only 200 attempts. His average of 8.7 yards per carry topped the NCAA by several yards.

Average TD run was over 33 yds in length.

He is the best...

BuffSoldier
02-01-2006, 07:45 PM
I think DeAngelo Williams will be the best NFL back, followed by White... Bush is the mos tathletic though.

YodAa
02-01-2006, 08:04 PM
Bush
Williams
White
Maroney
Addai

Grid
02-01-2006, 08:07 PM
Bush

blockhead83
02-01-2006, 08:56 PM
I'm going Bush. I think he was the most well known offensive weapon in the NCAA last year, and alot of teams game planned for him accordingly. That's why it's amazing he was still able to dominate like he did. Not sure if anyone saw Barry Sanders on Jim Rome today, but when they showed clips of Sanders juking past defenders it seemed oddly reminiscent of Bush's college high lights to me.

mexican_texan
02-01-2006, 09:50 PM
Right now, one must say DeAngelo Williams as you cannot give credit to blocking or a system. I saw him in the Motor City Bowl and I saw blocking that made the Texans' look good. He is a pure running back, balanced, and seemed to improve his biggest weakness, blocking, during the Senor Bowl.

mexican_texan
02-01-2006, 09:51 PM
I realize I need to back up my opinion more...



[U]Winner of the Heismann Trophy[U]

...given to the best player in College Football.

Was third in the Nation with 1740 rushing yards, but had only 200 attempts. His average of 8.7 yards per carry topped the NCAA by several yards.

Average TD run was over 33 yds in length.

He is the best...
Do you know Eric Crouch? The Heisman goes to the player with the best year, not the best.

YodAa
02-01-2006, 11:33 PM
But having the best year would make them the best would it not?

exclude
02-01-2006, 11:42 PM
hehe..last post was brilliant.

Bush, by a mile.

Lots of folks, 3-4 years from now, will be on these message boards and wonder why we EVER considered drafting Young. Mark my words.

thunderkyss
02-01-2006, 11:52 PM
D'angelo IMHO is the best most NFL ready pure Running back.

Bush may very well be the best Player..

mexican_texan
02-01-2006, 11:53 PM
But having the best year would make them the best would it not?
So Jason White is better than Michael Vick? Crouch over Carr, Peppers, AJ?

beerlover
02-01-2006, 11:57 PM
define RB -

can run thru a brickwall - LenDale White :brickwall

can worm his way underneath mountains - DeAngleo Williams :worm:

can leap a tall building with a single bound - Reggie Bush :superman:

awtysst
02-02-2006, 12:02 AM
define RB -

can run thru a brickwall - LenDale White :brickwall

can worm his way underneath mountains - DeAngleo Williams :worm:

can leap a tall building with a single bound - Reggie Bush :superman:

Can throw a tight spiral to his receivers-Vince Young

Sorry, had to:)

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 12:05 AM
So Jason White is better than Michael Vick? Crouch over Carr, Peppers, AJ?


Jason white is a better QB than Michael Vick....... he was in college at least... stat wise........ W-L record wise...... ability, intelligence, passing skills....

but, he was never given a fair shot in the NFL, so we'll never know.


Since we're being "fair", and want to give everybody a fair shot, maybe we can find him, and give him a shot too..... shouldn't cost us much...... no where near a first overall. We can probably get him for under league minimum.... you know pay him cash under the table.

Jason White............. OU......... Heisman...... National Champion........


hmmmmmmm

Apoch
02-02-2006, 01:27 AM
Do you know Eric Crouch? The Heisman goes to the player with the best year, not the best.

Yes, yes, love the "pick one statement out of the post and throw a half-hearted rebutal at it" strategy. Now, I can understand if you disagree, but at least put some effort into a rebutal if you want to prove someone wrong...

For every Crouch, White, or Salaam there is a Bo Jackson, Charles Woodson, or Ricky Williams. If you win the Heisman (especially by the margin Bush did) it makes a good argument.

...but lets be even more fair. Bush also (once again since you seemed to have missed it) won the "Best RB" award, another "Best Player" award, was third in the nation in rushing while having at least 108 carries less than the two RBs ahead of him, had an average of 8.7 yards per rush (no one in the top 40 even broke 6.6), and lead the NCAA in all-purpose yardage.

Kaiser Toro
02-02-2006, 09:02 AM
Before anyone of them play a down in the NFL and before they finish their careers all of you are wrong on who will be the best, because as history shows there have been few sure things. Bush, Williams and White all have the potential to be All-Pros, but what separates them? Bush at this point has shown the ability to be a multi threat while Williams and White will have to develop in other facets of the game or go to the right team with the right philosophy. I don't necessarily look at who will be the best, but rather I want the best value. Bush at #1 significantly decreases his value to the team by taking up 7-8 million of cap space. His contribution will need to mirror other RBs in the league immediatley. Expectations will be immense and we will see how the young man adjusts physically and mentally. I feel White will be ROY and Williams will be close. They are the value picks - lower risk (cap, expectations) and high reward. Bush I see is high risk, high reward.

yourfavoritetexan42
02-02-2006, 10:47 AM
My Opinion:

1. Bush
2. Calhoun/D Williams
3. White

Yes I know putting Calhoun with Williams is crazy...but I watch calhoun all season as I did Williams and Bush...Calhoun is a great player. Lendall White will be just like a Ronnie Brown... may make a little noise but nothing special.

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 12:09 PM
Before anyone of them play a down in the NFL and before they finish their careers all of you are wrong on who will be the best, because as history shows there have been few sure things. Bush, Williams and White all have the potential to be All-Pros, but what separates them? Bush at this point has shown the ability to be a multi threat while Williams and White will have to develop in other facets of the game or go to the right team with the right philosophy. I don't necessarily look at who will be the best, but rather I want the best value. Bush at #1 significantly decreases his value to the team by taking up 7-8 million of cap space. His contribution will need to mirror other RBs in the league immediatley. Expectations will be immense and we will see how the young man adjusts physically and mentally. I feel White will be ROY and Williams will be close. They are the value picks - lower risk (cap, expectations) and high reward. Bush I see is high risk, high reward.

year after year, the top running backs in the league are not multitalented multipurpose players, but rather straight up runners. Their blocking doesn't generally have to be all that, as long as they get the job done, when you hand them the ball. TDs, and Rushing Yards are the meat and potatoes of the running backs game.

I'm not taking anything away from Bush....... I'm just saying all that other stuff doesn't necessarily make him the best RB in the draft. As a Matter of Fact, the first running back taken may not necessarily be the best back in the draft. That's all about how the teams evaluate the player, vs their needs.

We don't have a versatile tight end....... Bush's ability to be a reciever out of the backfield, to play the slot.... he might be a suitable replacement, and allow our TEs to focus on blocking.

cadahnic
02-02-2006, 12:23 PM
Deangelo Williams is the most complete back in the draft. If you look at speed, vision, elusiveness, catching, and blocking he is and will be rated the best back. Not saying that RBush does not have these qualities and some of them are better than Williams, not to mention the upside to Bush is likely more than Williams, but the likely hood is that Williams will go to a team needing that piece where he will have the opportunity to really excel in the league due to the fact he is more ready for the NFL than Bush. I think if you were going to rate them on a scale of 10 then you would give both of them 8. I dont give 9 or 10 to a guy that has not proven he is a rare freak. THe only 10 I have really given out was Ju. Pep because he one of the most solid picks in recent draft history and there were no questions about him.

Huge
02-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Yes, yes, love the "pick one statement out of the post and throw a half-hearted rebutal at it" strategy. Now, I can understand if you disagree, but at least put some effort into a rebutal if you want to prove someone wrong...

For every Crouch, White, or Salaam there is a Bo Jackson, Charles Woodson, or Ricky Williams. If you win the Heisman (especially by the margin Bush did) it makes a good argument.

...but lets be even more fair. Bush also (once again since you seemed to have missed it) won the "Best RB" award, another "Best Player" award, was third in the nation in rushing while having at least 108 carries less than the two RBs ahead of him, had an average of 8.7 yards per rush (no one in the top 40 even broke 6.6), and lead the NCAA in all-purpose yardage.
Just thought I'd point out that even though Ricky Williams won the Heisman as well as the Doak Walker (twice, actually), finished his career as the NCAA all-time leading rusher and has the highest YPC averaged of any RB with more than 700 attempts. Yet he wasn't the first RB drafted that year. Edgerrin James was. And so far, James has proven the Colts made the right decision.

Cedric Benson won the Doak Walker. Why was Ronnie Brown drafted ahead of him?

Winning the Heisman has no bearing whatsoever in determining your pro potential. It just means (or is supposed to mean) you were the best player in college that year.

tulexan
02-02-2006, 01:55 PM
year after year, the top running backs in the league are not multitalented multipurpose players, but rather straight up runners. Their blocking doesn't generally have to be all that, as long as they get the job done, when you hand them the ball. TDs, and Rushing Yards are the meat and potatoes of the running backs game.

I'm not taking anything away from Bush....... I'm just saying all that other stuff doesn't necessarily make him the best RB in the draft. As a Matter of Fact, the first running back taken may not necessarily be the best back in the draft. That's all about how the teams evaluate the player, vs their needs.

We don't have a versatile tight end....... Bush's ability to be a reciever out of the backfield, to play the slot.... he might be a suitable replacement, and allow our TEs to focus on blocking.

LT, Tiki Barber, and Warrick Dunn are three of the top 5 or 6 RB's in the league. Seems like it is pretty even between workhorse backs (Alexander, James, Johnson) and versatile backs (Barber, Tomlinson, and Dunn).

BeerFan
02-02-2006, 03:43 PM
this argument wouldnt exist if bush didnt split the carries last year. ill stand by that statement. lets say if he had 100 more carries, thats about 870 more yards.


2570 yards RUSHING, not including receiving or returning. you gotta be kidding me.


best player in the draft- Reggie Bush

mexican_texan
02-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Yes, yes, love the "pick one statement out of the post and throw a half-hearted rebutal at it" strategy. Now, I can understand if you disagree, but at least put some effort into a rebutal if you want to prove someone wrong...

For every Crouch, White, or Salaam there is a Bo Jackson, Charles Woodson, or Ricky Williams. If you win the Heisman (especially by the margin Bush did) it makes a good argument.

...but lets be even more fair. Bush also (once again since you seemed to have missed it) won the "Best RB" award, another "Best Player" award, was third in the nation in rushing while having at least 108 carries less than the two RBs ahead of him, had an average of 8.7 yards per rush (no one in the top 40 even broke 6.6), and lead the NCAA in all-purpose yardage.
I know that there are not many Vince Young fans in these MBs, but didn't Vince Young win the Player of the Year award?

dcarey20
02-02-2006, 07:10 PM
this is where everyone stands. this is a mountain


bush, he is the peak, and then there is everyone else












































































































































































































lendale
deangelo







maroney





































calhoun
addai













maurice drew

beerlover
02-02-2006, 07:38 PM
DeAngelo Williams reminds me of Emmitt Smith actually to be serious for a moment. Emmitt was the 17th selection in 1990 flash forward 16 years & you have a similar talent in a slightly smaller package.

Emmitt Smith: An All-America and three time All-SEC selection at Florida, Smith established 58 school records in three seasons, including a career rushing mark of 3,928 yards. He surpassed the 1,000-yard rushing mark in his seventh game, earlier than any player in college football history. He also became the second freshman to finish in the top 10 in the Heisman Trophy balloting (Herschel Walker was the other) and earned Freshman of the Year honors from UPI and The Sporting News. In 1989, he set a school single-game rushing mark with 316 yards against New Mexico on his way to a school-record 1,599 yards rushing for the season. In three seasons, he became the fifth leading all-time rusher in SEC history and led the Gators in receiving two-of-the-three seasons.

DeAngelo Williams: Holds numerous U of M rushing, scoring and all-purpose records...Owns all Tiger career rushing records including, carries (659), yards (4,062), rushing average (6.2), rushing touchdowns (37), 100-yard games (24)...Holds the single-season records in carries (313), yards (1,948) and rushing touchdowns (22), all of which were accomplished in 2004...Set a new school record in 2004 with 263 yards rushing against USF...Set a new single-season record for all-purpose yards with 2,230 in 2004...Has amassed 5,498 all-purpose yards in his career for another school record...Holds the record for points scored in a game with 24, and in touchdowns in a game with 4, of which he accomplished three times in his career...Holds the record in points scored in a season with 138 (2004) and in touchdowns in a season with 23 (2004)...Heads into the 2005 season ranked third in career points scored with 248...Owns the record for touchdowns scored in a career with 41 and has another season to build onto that total.

texplayer2
02-03-2006, 01:13 AM
this is where everyone stands. this is a mountain


bush, he is the peak, and then there is everyone else












































































































































































































lendale
deangelo







maroney





































calhoun
addai













maurice drew

I like that!:) I don't know about the order all together, but I would give you style points.LOL.

Samer
02-03-2006, 01:15 AM
I would say Reggie Bush all the way

ReggieBushFan
02-03-2006, 03:38 AM
:stirpot: Who is the best Running Back in the Draft? Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams or Lendale White.
is this a trick question?


Reggie Bush is the best back in many years, DeAngelo Williams isn't even in the same class, Bush has more speed, better moves, he catches the ball better, and oh yeah, did I mention he has more speed! Nobody touches Reggie, trust me, all you guys that want Vince Young will be Reggie Bush fans in no time, the Texans will draft him and he will be amazing by year 2, just you wait and see, it will be Reggie's city!
:yahoo:

Fighting Blue Hen
02-03-2006, 05:23 AM
is this a trick question?


Reggie Bush is the best back in many years, DeAngelo Williams isn't even in the same class, Bush has more speed, better moves, he catches the ball better, and oh yeah, did I mention he has more speed! Nobody touches Reggie, trust me, all you guys that want Vince Young will be Reggie Bush fans in no time, the Texans will draft him and he will be amazing by year 2, just you wait and see, it will be Reggie's city!
:yahoo:

I guess Reggie need's a new city since Vince took L.A. from him.

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 08:04 AM
Yet he wasn't the first RB drafted that year. Edgerrin James was. And so far, James has proven the Colts made the right decision.



If Ricky was in Indy, and put up the numbers he did in Miami, the two years before he went on Hiatus, the Colts would have won multiple SBs by now.

The thing about a Bruiser, a Ricky Williams, a Priest Holmes, a Jamal Lewis, an Eddie George/Emmit Smith in their Prime, is that they beat the crap out of a defense, they wear you down in a demorilizing way that makes them give up......

Kaiser Toro
02-03-2006, 08:26 AM
If Ricky was in Indy, and put up the numbers he did in Miami, the two years before he went on Hiatus, the Colts would have won multiple SBs by now.

The thing about a Bruiser, a Ricky Williams, a Priest Holmes, a Jamal Lewis, an Eddie George/Emmit Smith in their Prime, is that they beat the crap out of a defense, they wear you down in a demorilizing way that makes them give up......

I think the KC and Dallas offensive lines would have something to say about Priest and Emmitt being the bruisers. Granted they did not shy away from contact and were great players, but it was the lines and FB's driving those running games.

Huge
02-03-2006, 08:46 AM
If Ricky was in Indy, and put up the numbers he did in Miami, the two years before he went on Hiatus, the Colts would have won multiple SBs by now.
Ricky's numbers in Miami - 21.4 carries per game, 90.2 yards per game, .7 TDs per game
Edge's numbers in Indy - 22.8 carries, per game, 96.1 yards per game, .67 TDs per game

And that's not including the receiving stats where James has an even bigger lead.

But you think the difference between those numbers is the reason the Colts don't have multiple Super Bowls?
The thing about a Bruiser, a Ricky Williams, a Priest Holmes, a Jamal Lewis, an Eddie George/Emmit Smith in their Prime, is that they beat the crap out of a defense, they wear you down in a demorilizing way that makes them give up......
Priest Holmes and Emmitt Smith aren't/weren't bruisers. Eddie George was a bruiser and averaged 3.6 ypc for his career. No thanks.

"Bruisers" don't wear down defenses. Offensive lines do. If your RB is picking up first downs, it doesn't matter how he's doing it. Picking up first downs means your offensive line gets to beat on somebody for at least another 3 plays. When a defense can't get off the field and they continue to get beat on, that's what wears them down.

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 08:58 AM
But you think the difference between those numbers is the reason the Colts don't have multiple Super Bowls?
Yes I do, It's not about the numbers.

Priest Holmes and Emmitt Smith aren't/weren't bruisers. Eddie George was a bruiser and averaged 3.6 ypc for his career. No thanks.
Yes they are
"Bruisers" don't wear down defenses. Offensive lines do. If your RB is picking up first downs, it doesn't matter how he's doing it. Picking up first downs means your offensive line gets to beat on somebody for at least another 3 plays. When a defense can't get off the field and they continue to get beat on, that's what wears them down.

Yes it does.

Long-Spurs-Texan
02-03-2006, 09:38 AM
Ricky gutted his yardage out between the tackles against 8-10 man fronts. The defenses never had to repect the pass, because there never was one. The defenses that faced USC were always having to respect the Heisman winning Leinart, Mike Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, & Byrd. Lendale & that massive O-Line wore down the defense, and then it was Reggie time.


IMO, best pure RB is the draft is Deangelo Willliams. He had none of the weapons USC did, just like Ricky never had a Manning, Harrison, or Wayne.

infantrycak
02-03-2006, 10:20 AM
"Bruisers" don't wear down defenses. Offensive lines do. If your RB is picking up first downs, it doesn't matter how he's doing it. Picking up first downs means your offensive line gets to beat on somebody for at least another 3 plays. When a defense can't get off the field and they continue to get beat on, that's what wears them down.

Where exactly did this bruisers wear down a defense idea come from? It is pretty obvious 1 guy isn't going to wear down 7 or more guys at least 7 of whom are bigger than him. Like you said, the wearing down comes from the # of running plays (i.e. the action of the OL, TE, FB and RB together) and keeping the D on the field and on their heels.

And as one of the biggest Emmitt Smith fans ever, he was not a bruiser. He was a contact minimizer (not avoider like Sanders)--he had great vision and enough shiftiness to make potential hits go from full hits like Earl Campbell took into arm tackles and glancing blows he could either run thru or at least get extra yards while finishing the run.

MorKnolle
02-03-2006, 11:17 AM
DeAngelo Williams is the best runner at RB in this draft, he has speed (not as much as Bush but he's not too far behind), good moves, he can run with power and break thru tackles, and he has proven he can carry a heavy load. He is also the only senior among the top four RBs in this draft.
2002: 103 carries, 684 yards, 6.6 ypc, 5 TDs, 5 catches, 51 yards, 0 TD
2003: 243 carries, 1430 yards, 5.9 ypc, 10 TDs, 35 catches, 384 yards, 3 TDs
2004: 313 carries, 1948 yards, 6.2 ypc, 22 TDs, 18 catches, 210 yards, 1 TD
2005: 309 carries, 1959 yards, 6.3 ypc, 18 TDs, 12 catchs, 78 yards, 1 TD
Total: 968 carries, 6021 yards, 6.2 ypc, 55 TDs, 70 catches, 723 yards, 5 TDs
Season Avg: 242 carries, 1505.3 yards, 6.2 ypc, 14.8 TDs, 17.5 catches, 180.8 yards, 1.3 TDs

Reggie Bush is the best all-round player at RB, he has better speed and is quicker, right now he's a little smaller than DeAngelo (yes 6-0 200 is smaller than 5-8 208), he is more versatile as a better receiving option out of the backfield or lining up at WR, and he can return kicks/punts (we wouldn't need him on kickoffs as Mathis is already a pro-bowler there). Bush has not yet proven he can carry a heavy workload, but at the same time he has not proven that he can't carry it, and in one sense he does have "less wear on the tires", although I'm not sure how much that really means at this point in his career.
2003: 90 carries, 521 yards, 5.8 ypc, 3 TDs, 15 catches, 314 yards, 4 TDs
2004: 143 carries, 908 yards, 6.4 ypc, 6 TDs, 43 catches, 509 yards, 7 TDs
2005: 200 carries, 1740 yards, 8.7 ypc, 16 TDs, 37 catches, 478 yards, 2 TDs
Total: 433 carries, 3169 yards, 7.3 ypc, 25 TDs, 95 catches, 1301 yards, 13 TDs
Season Avg: 144.3 carries, 1056.3 yards, 7.3 ypc, 8.3 TDs, 31.7 catches, 433.7 yards, 4.3 TDs

LenDale White is a great all-round RB. He's not as fast as either Bush or DeAngelo, but he's bigger and a more powerful runner. He also has not proven that he can carry a heavy workload as he split carries with Bush, but at the same time he has also not proven that he can't carry a heavy workload, and the majority of his carries were up the middle attacking the heart of the defense rather than outrunning it.
2003: 141 carries, 754 yards, 5.3 ypc, 13 TDs, 6 catches, 15 yards, 1 TD
2004: 203 carries, 1103 yards, 5.4 ypc, 15 TDs, 11 catches, 97 yards, 2 TDs
2005: 197 carries, 1302 yards, 6.6 ypc, 24 TDs, 14 catches, 219 yards, 2 TDs
Total: 541 carries, 3159 yards, 5.8 ypc, 52 TDs, 31 catches, 331 yards, 5 TDs
Season Avg: 180.3 carries, 1053 yards, 5.8 ypc, 17.3 TDs, 10.3 catches, 110.3 yards, 1.7 TDs

Lawrence Maroney is a good all-round RB. He has split carries for the majority of his career, but got the chance to be a star this year. He has a decent mix of size and speed and should be a solid NFL RB, but is not of the caliber of White, Bush, or Williams.
2003: 162 carries, 1121 yards, 6.9 ypc, 10 TDs, 1 catch, 11 yards, 0 TD
2004: 217 carries, 1348 yards, 6.2 ypc, 12 TDs, 3 catches, 16 yards, 0 TD
2005: 281 carries, 1464 yards, 5.2 ypc, 10 TDs, 17 catches, 170 yards, 1 TD
Total: 660 carries, 3933 yards, 6.0 ypc, 32 TDs, 21 catches, 197 yards, 1 TD
Season Avg: 220 carries, 1311 yards, 6.0 ypc, 10.7 TDs, 7 catchse, 65.7 yards, 0.3 TD

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 11:25 AM
And as one of the biggest Emmitt Smith fans ever, he was not a bruiser. He was a contact minimizer (not avoider like Sanders)--he had great vision and enough shiftiness to make potential hits go from full hits like Earl Campbell took into arm tackles and glancing blows he could either run thru or at least get extra yards while finishing the run.

There were too many times that I've seen Emmit push, drag, and carry defensive players for an extra yard or two after minimizing contact for me not to call him a bruiser. I think what made/makes Emmit sooo special, is that he was the perfect combination of speed, moves and strength... he had enough speed, to burst through the line, enough shiftiness to turn a shoulder tackle into a grazing arm tackle, and enough strentght to punish you.......really badly for trying to stop him.....

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 11:28 AM
DeAngelo Williams is the best runner at RB in this draft, he has speed (not as much as Bush but he's not too far behind), good moves, he can run with power and break thru tackles, and he has proven he can carry a heavy load. He is also the only senior among the top four RBs in this draft.
2002: 103 carries, 684 yards, 6.6 ypc, 5 TDs, 5 catches, 51 yards, 0 TD
2003: 243 carries, 1430 yards, 5.9 ypc, 10 TDs, 35 catches, 384 yards, 3 TDs
2004: 313 carries, 1948 yards, 6.2 ypc, 22 TDs, 18 catches, 210 yards, 1 TD
2005: 309 carries, 1959 yards, 6.3 ypc, 18 TDs, 12 catchs, 78 yards, 1 TD
Total: 968 carries, 6021 yards, 6.2 ypc, 55 TDs, 70 catches, 723 yards, 5 TDs
Season Avg: 242 carries, 1505.3 yards, 6.2 ypc, 14.8 TDs, 17.5 catches, 180.8 yards, 1.3 TDs

Reggie Bush is the best all-round player at RB, he has better speed and is quicker, right now he's a little smaller than DeAngelo (yes 6-0 200 is smaller than 5-8 208), he is more versatile as a better receiving option out of the backfield or lining up at WR, and he can return kicks/punts (we wouldn't need him on kickoffs as Mathis is already a pro-bowler there). Bush has not yet proven he can carry a heavy workload, but at the same time he has not proven that he can't carry it, and in one sense he does have "less wear on the tires", although I'm not sure how much that really means at this point in his career.
2003: 90 carries, 521 yards, 5.8 ypc, 3 TDs, 15 catches, 314 yards, 4 TDs
2004: 143 carries, 908 yards, 6.4 ypc, 6 TDs, 43 catches, 509 yards, 7 TDs
2005: 200 carries, 1740 yards, 8.7 ypc, 16 TDs, 37 catches, 478 yards, 2 TDs
Total: 433 carries, 3169 yards, 7.3 ypc, 25 TDs, 95 catches, 1301 yards, 13 TDs
Season Avg: 144.3 carries, 1056.3 yards, 7.3 ypc, 8.3 TDs, 31.7 catches, 433.7 yards, 4.3 TDs

LenDale White is a great all-round RB. He's not as fast as either Bush or DeAngelo, but he's bigger and a more powerful runner. He also has not proven that he can carry a heavy workload as he split carries with Bush, but at the same time he has also not proven that he can't carry a heavy workload, and the majority of his carries were up the middle attacking the heart of the defense rather than outrunning it.
2003: 141 carries, 754 yards, 5.3 ypc, 13 TDs, 6 catches, 15 yards, 1 TD
2004: 203 carries, 1103 yards, 5.4 ypc, 15 TDs, 11 catches, 97 yards, 2 TDs
2005: 197 carries, 1302 yards, 6.6 ypc, 24 TDs, 14 catches, 219 yards, 2 TDs
Total: 541 carries, 3159 yards, 5.8 ypc, 52 TDs, 31 catches, 331 yards, 5 TDs
Season Avg: 180.3 carries, 1053 yards, 5.8 ypc, 17.3 TDs, 10.3 catches, 110.3 yards, 1.7 TDs

Lawrence Maroney is a good all-round RB. He has split carries for the majority of his career, but got the chance to be a star this year. He has a decent mix of size and speed and should be a solid NFL RB, but is not of the caliber of White, Bush, or Williams.
2003: 162 carries, 1121 yards, 6.9 ypc, 10 TDs, 1 catch, 11 yards, 0 TD
2004: 217 carries, 1348 yards, 6.2 ypc, 12 TDs, 3 catches, 16 yards, 0 TD
2005: 281 carries, 1464 yards, 5.2 ypc, 10 TDs, 17 catches, 170 yards, 1 TD
Total: 660 carries, 3933 yards, 6.0 ypc, 32 TDs, 21 catches, 197 yards, 1 TD
Season Avg: 220 carries, 1311 yards, 6.0 ypc, 10.7 TDs, 7 catchse, 65.7 yards, 0.3 TD


man, If I could just spend an hour talking with these guys face to face, I could tell you who was the best........

Great info MorK

MorKnolle
02-03-2006, 11:34 AM
There were too many times that I've seen Emmit push, drag, and carry defensive players for an extra yard or two after minimizing contact for me not to call him a bruiser. I think what made/makes Emmit sooo special, is that he was the perfect combination of speed, moves and strength... he had enough speed, to burst through the line, enough shiftiness to turn a shoulder tackle into a grazing arm tackle, and enough strentght to punish you.......really badly for trying to stop him.....

Emmitt Smith ran with power, but I still wouldn't call him a bruising RB. When I think of big, bruising RBs, I think of the ones like Jerome Bettis, Jamal Lewis, Mike Alstott (anyone remember that play against the Bears a couple years ago when he broke I think 9 tackles on a single run?), Eddie George kind of fits in there, etc. Emmitt, Priest Holmes (I don't consider him a power back at all) and some of those others definitely ran with power, but I would just consider them all very complete and well-rounded RBs, ones that had some speed, good quickness, but could still break thru tackles, those guys could do it all. Barry Sanders had some power to, he could drive thru tackles and break thru a lot of the time, but he was still fast enough that he could completely avoid the contact most of the time, it remains to be seen if Reggie Bush will develop that characteristic where he can instinctively avoid guys like Sanders (he does have comparable speed, quickness, and balance) but still bounce off guys, drive thru potential tackles, and keep on running.

jerek
02-03-2006, 11:50 AM
Emmitt Smith ran with power, but I still wouldn't call him a bruising RB. When I think of big, bruising RBs, I think of the ones like Jerome Bettis, Jamal Lewis, Mike Alstott (anyone remember that play against the Bears a couple years ago when he broke I think 9 tackles on a single run?), Eddie George kind of fits in there, etc. Emmitt, Priest Holmes (I don't consider him a power back at all) and some of those others definitely ran with power, but I would just consider them all very complete and well-rounded RBs, ones that had some speed, good quickness, but could still break thru tackles, those guys could do it all. Barry Sanders had some power to, he could drive thru tackles and break thru a lot of the time, but he was still fast enough that he could completely avoid the contact most of the time, it remains to be seen if Reggie Bush will develop that characteristic where he can instinctively avoid guys like Sanders (he does have comparable speed, quickness, and balance) but still bounce off guys, drive thru potential tackles, and keep on running.

Agreed. We may be saying the same thing here, TK, just using a different word. I also do not think of Emmitt as a "bruiser" or a "power back," just a guy with good speed, good agility, good power, and all-world ability to find the hole and quickly get through it. He can fight through tacklers and does so, but more often than not he still has the speed or the vision to get around them: he is not a Bettis or a Jamal Lewis in that regard, a guy who is going to get most of his yards running through/over people.

IMO, Davis is comparable to Emmitt in this regard: they both have similar styles, and Davis is just a good back who quickly sniffs out the hole and cuts through it. And as well, not to diminish Emmitt, but he played behind an all-world O-line/offensive set in the Cowgirls' glory years, and in those years the team was fearsome in all offensive facets. He was a fantastic back, but he had help.

infantrycak
02-03-2006, 12:14 PM
And as well, not to diminish Emmitt, but he played behind an all-world O-line/offensive set in the Cowgirls' glory years, and in those years the team was fearsome in all offensive facets. He was a fantastic back, but he had help.

I know you said your comments were not to diminish Emmitt's accomplishments, but hey, gonna use it as a platform anyway. First, the OL vs. RB thing is a little chicken and egg. Would that Dallas OL have been as well regarded if James Allen had been running behind it? Odds are Allen would have had a better career and the OL would have been considered good but not great. Team game and both can make each other look better or worse. Second, while Barry and Emmitt were both still playing a commentator commented on how most of Barry's yards were made before 1st contact and most of Emmitt's were made after 1st contact. Emmitt did get good holes, but what made him special was making the most of that opportunity a big part of which was consistantly getting yards after 1st contact, i.e. the OL wasn't doing all the work.

jerek
02-03-2006, 12:28 PM
I know you said your comments were not to diminish Emmitt's accomplishments, but hey, gonna use it as a platform anyway. First, the OL vs. RB thing is a little chicken and egg. Would that Dallas OL have been as well regarded if James Allen had been running behind it? Odds are Allen would have had a better career and the OL would have been considered good but not great. Team game and both can make each other look better or worse. Second, while Barry and Emmitt were both still playing a commentator commented on how most of Barry's yards were made before 1st contact and most of Emmitt's were made after 1st contact. Emmitt did get good holes, but what made him special was making the most of that opportunity a big part of which was consistantly getting yards after 1st contact, i.e. the OL wasn't doing all the work.

I agree and have been saying much the same thing all along. For instance, Carr: I lost track of how many times I saw a defender cruise through the O-line untouched and put Carr on his *** before he finished a three step drop. By that same token, there were times where the line did their job and Carr didn't find anyone open, or ran out of bounds behind the line. End result: 68 sacks, and everyone is screaming for Carr's head or a new O-line. Few understand that it was some of both (though I contend more of the blame lies with O-line/coaching/system)

Point being I agree, Emmitt in part made the O-line look great with his own ability. That is a big, big part of any team game: players putting other players in a position to succeed, and players utilizing their strengths individually within the greater context of what the team is trying to get done. Nobody remembers Joe Lineman screwing it up on that key third down if Emmitt shakes the guy in the backfield and breaks it long. Likewise no one remembers Emmitt picking the wrong gap if Larry Allen just mans up and blows the poor defender off his feet and clears the hole any way.

Team game, for sure. Good players make each other look even better.

Still, you cannot look back on beasts like Larry Allen and think anything less than "all world O-lineman." For sure, Emmitt deserves his reputation and memory as "one of the best ever," but I guess I just wanted to point out, he did benefit from the cast he had around him (a significant number of future HOFers). For that matter, Emmitt sure made Aikman's job easier.

Team game = a beautiful thing. And you are right to point it out.

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 12:40 PM
Agreed. We may be saying the same thing here, TK, just using a different word. Maybe so, because I don't put Emmit with Bettis and Alstott


IMO, Davis is comparable to Emmitt in this regard: they both have similar styles, and Davis is just a good back who quickly sniffs out the hole and cuts through it. And as well, not to diminish Emmitt, but he played behind an all-world O-line/offensive set in the Cowgirls' glory years, and in those years the team was fearsome in all offensive facets. He was a fantastic back, but he had help.

I thought the same thing, especially in DDs first two years. I'm hoping that Kubiak and his interpretation of the zone blocking scheme could take the guys we have, and give DD the opportunity to be that guy we saw in Emmit. I understand the line has problems, and I'm not against adding one or two pieces to the puzzle, I'm just hoping it isn't going to take a complete overhaul. IF we really do need to replace 3 or 4 linemen, it's going to be a long, long season.

by the by jerek........... what is the deal with the chef's hat??

jerek
02-03-2006, 12:42 PM
Maybe so, because I don't put Emmit with Bettis and Alstott



I thought the same thing, especially in DDs first two years. I'm hoping that Kubiak and his interpretation of the zone blocking scheme could take the guys we have, and give DD the opportunity to be that guy we saw in Emmit. I understand the line has problems, and I'm not against adding one or two pieces to the puzzle, I'm just hoping it isn't going to take a complete overhaul. IF we really do need to replace 3 or 4 linemen, it's going to be a long, long season.

I don't think we need to replace 3-4. We had a lot of injuries last year, and between that and our all-round bad play, it was hard to get a solid evaluation of most any body. I think Kubes will mend the fence and maybe had a new face or two, but I think even our O-line is better than it played last year.

Texian
02-03-2006, 06:40 PM
Outside of Bush I am going to pick a darkhorse and say the best back in this year's class, 3 years from now will be TAUREAN HENDERSON.

One of the most versatile and prolific backs in school history ... returns for final season with a firm hold on the running back slot ... ranks second in NCAA history among running backs with 236 career receptions ... trails former Long Beach State running back Mark Templeton by 26 catches ... ranks second among the nation's returning running backs in receptions (60) last season, fifth in overall touchdowns (18) and eighth in scoring (9.0 ppg).

Records Held
Tech Junior Scoring - 108 points (2004)
Tech Sophomore Receptions - 78 (2003)
NCAA Freshman Receptions - 98 (2002)
Tech Freshman Receptions - 98 (2002)
Tech Freshman Single-Game Receptions - 13 vs. A&M (2002)
Tech Freshman Single-Season Receiving Yards - 633 (2002)
Tech Freshman Single-Season All-Purpose Yards - 1,453 (2002)

In the Charts - Is in second place on the Tech career receptions list with 236 and trails all-time leader Wes Welker by 23 ... is second on the career touchdowns list at Tech with 47 and is in third place at Tech with 33 career rushing scores ... also second with 282 career points and trails all-time leader James Gray (1986-89) by 30 points ... 78 receptions in 2003 ranks fifth on the Tech single-season list.

2005 - All-Big 12 First Team selection ... leads the nation with 50-consecutive games with a reception ... with his next reception, will break the NCAA record of 50 set by Michael Larkin of Miami (Ohio) from 2001-04 ... became the third player in NCAA history with 3,000 rushing and 2,000 receiving yards when he eclipsed the receiving yardage mark against Oklahoma State ... is tied in third place on the NCAA career scoring list with 414 points ... eight points short of Texas Tech single-season scoring record (134, Byron Morris, 1993) ... 22 touchdowns this season ties Byron Morris's record set in 1993 ... has scored a touchdown in 16 of last 18 games ... fifth player in school history to record over 5,000 all-purpose yards in a career ... set the NCAA receptions record for a running back with his first catch against Kansas State ... has 298 in his career ... also tied the school record with five touchdowns against Kansas State ... set the school career receptions record against Nebraska, breaking Wes Welker's previous record of 259 ... leads the Big 12 in scoring with 12.0 points per game and is the nation's active leader in career touchdowns (69) ...

Huge
02-03-2006, 11:43 PM
Yes I do, It's not about the numbers.

Yes they are

Yes it does.
Compelling arguments. Are you a lawyer during the day?

First item up for bid...

If it's not about the numbers with Ricky, then what's this about...
If Ricky was in Indy, and put up the numbers he did in Miami, the two years before he went on Hiatus, the Colts would have won multiple SBs by now.
?????

But if it's not about the numbers, then what is it about? His leadership?

Second item...

If you really believe Priest Holmes and Emmitt Smith are "bruising" RB's (and since you've already lumped them in the same class with Eddie George and Jamaal Lewis), what category would you put guys like Earl Campbell, Larry Csonka, John Riggins or Jim Brown?

Those are the guys I think of when I think of "bruisers".

But maybe we just have a different idea as to what a "bruising" RB. But I can bet you there was never a defensive player that dreaded trying to tackle Emmitt or Priest. They might've been nervous that they'd whiff but being trucked never entered their minds.

There's a very real possibility that the last guy Emmitt Smith trucked was the first one. That's how much Emmitt went out of his way to avoid contact. It's also a big factor towards how he was able to play for as long as he did.

Third item...

If you're telling me it matters how a RB picks up first downs, I'd like to hear how/why it matters.

MorKnolle
02-04-2006, 01:42 AM
Outside of Bush I am going to pick a darkhorse and say the best back in this year's class, 3 years from now will be TAUREAN HENDERSON.

One of the most versatile and prolific backs in school history ... returns for final season with a firm hold on the running back slot ... ranks second in NCAA history among running backs with 236 career receptions ... trails former Long Beach State running back Mark Templeton by 26 catches ... ranks second among the nation's returning running backs in receptions (60) last season, fifth in overall touchdowns (18) and eighth in scoring (9.0 ppg).

Records Held
Tech Junior Scoring - 108 points (2004)
Tech Sophomore Receptions - 78 (2003)
NCAA Freshman Receptions - 98 (2002)
Tech Freshman Receptions - 98 (2002)
Tech Freshman Single-Game Receptions - 13 vs. A&M (2002)
Tech Freshman Single-Season Receiving Yards - 633 (2002)
Tech Freshman Single-Season All-Purpose Yards - 1,453 (2002)

In the Charts - Is in second place on the Tech career receptions list with 236 and trails all-time leader Wes Welker by 23 ... is second on the career touchdowns list at Tech with 47 and is in third place at Tech with 33 career rushing scores ... also second with 282 career points and trails all-time leader James Gray (1986-89) by 30 points ... 78 receptions in 2003 ranks fifth on the Tech single-season list.

2005 - All-Big 12 First Team selection ... leads the nation with 50-consecutive games with a reception ... with his next reception, will break the NCAA record of 50 set by Michael Larkin of Miami (Ohio) from 2001-04 ... became the third player in NCAA history with 3,000 rushing and 2,000 receiving yards when he eclipsed the receiving yardage mark against Oklahoma State ... is tied in third place on the NCAA career scoring list with 414 points ... eight points short of Texas Tech single-season scoring record (134, Byron Morris, 1993) ... 22 touchdowns this season ties Byron Morris's record set in 1993 ... has scored a touchdown in 16 of last 18 games ... fifth player in school history to record over 5,000 all-purpose yards in a career ... set the NCAA receptions record for a running back with his first catch against Kansas State ... has 298 in his career ... also tied the school record with five touchdowns against Kansas State ... set the school career receptions record against Nebraska, breaking Wes Welker's previous record of 259 ... leads the Big 12 in scoring with 12.0 points per game and is the nation's active leader in career touchdowns (69) ...

The bolded segment doesn't say much, one of the most prolific RBs in Texas Tech history? They don't exactly have a prolific history of RBs. Henderson put up a lot of receptions and receiving yards, but he was not very productive in the running game. A lot of that has to do with their offensive system, but I still don't see him being a very prolific RB in the NFL, certainly not better than DeAngelo Williams, LenDale White, and Lawrence Maroney, and probably some of the others.

infantrycak
02-04-2006, 09:09 AM
but he was not very productive in the running game.

What is the standard for productivity nowadays? He averaged 5.9 ypc as a rusher (872 yds rushing) and had 17 rushing TD's. In that offense he seems about as productive as could be. Not saying he is a top back or even NFL starter, just an observation.