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eclem5
01-31-2006, 03:43 PM
How much did It hurt us by trading our 2nd pick and an addtional lower pick for Phillip Buchcanon, and Can we ever benefit from learning from the past?:challenge

YodAa
01-31-2006, 05:22 PM
I don't think it hurt to much since last year was a week draft

Danish Texan
01-31-2006, 05:43 PM
Still, we could have had quality players for those picks. :redtowel:

The second round pick could have been used to fix the need for an O-line, where Khalif Barnes was awailable. At corner Darrent Williams was available.

The third round pick could have been used on Kirk Morrison or offensive linemen such as Dan Buening or Elton Brown

However, it is always a gamble to pick in the draft :texflag:

YoungTexanFan
01-31-2006, 07:43 PM
Still, we could have had quality players for those picks. :redtowel:

The second round pick could have been used to fix the need for an O-line, where Khalif Barnes was awailable. At corner Darrent Williams was available.

The third round pick could have been used on Kirk Morrison or offensive linemen such as Dan Buening or Elton Brown

However, it is always a gamble to pick in the draft :texflag:

Khalif Barnes is a below average RT only. I would not want him on the Texans.

While I agree some LB's and other players would have been nice, it was an extremely weak draft class last year.

infantrycak
01-31-2006, 07:55 PM
I don't think it hurt to much since last year was a week draft

Not sure how a combination of two of the following wouldn't have helped:

2nd round: Odell Thurman, Khalif Barnes, Darrent Williams or Justin Miller
3rd round: Richie Icognito, Kevin Everett, Domanique Foxworth or Nick Kaczur.

beerlover
01-31-2006, 07:57 PM
it was an extremely weak draft class last year.

as compared to what? 2002? give me a break last year although not strong at the top, like this years is, was very deep thru the 2nd & 3rd rounds. heck we got Jerome Mathis in the 4th. those two picks we traded to Oakland for Buchanon should have produced two qualtiy players that could have helped this team. Just one example in the 2nd rd. from USC was Lofa Tatupu :brickwall

YoungTexanFan
01-31-2006, 08:01 PM
as compared to what? 2002? give me a break last year although not strong at the top, like this years is, was very deep thru the 2nd & 3rd rounds. heck we got Jerome Mathis in the 4th. those two picks we traded to Oakland for Buchanon should have produced two qualtiy players that could have helped this team. Just one example in the 2nd rd. from USC was Lofa Tatupu :brickwall

I'm not arguing that some quality players were available. Look at what we did with the picks we DID have!! Morency in the 3rd?? TJ in the 1st?? both could have been had a round later. It was not a deep draft up top, and not a lot of REAL quality depth.

Either way, we can make up for our shortcomings last year, by trading down this year. This is a VERY deep draft. Why not have the most picks we can? Why not add two or three extra starter/2nd string rookies as opposed to a RB or VY who would sit and learn/split time at best??

YodAa
01-31-2006, 08:01 PM
You guys are looking at this draft from now, if you looked at it before the draft we were getting an extremely fast CB that had experience and was a former 1st round pick. Also without so many injuries and without the OL totally breaking down again (despite efforts to make it better, IE Pace trade and Riley signing) we wouldn't have been 2-14

YoungTexanFan
01-31-2006, 08:10 PM
You guys are looking at this draft from now, if you looked at it before the draft we were getting an extremely fast CB that had experience and was a former 1st round pick. Also without so many injuries and without the OL totally breaking down again (despite efforts to make it better, IE Pace trade and Riley signing) we wouldn't have been 2-14

IF everything had happened like we planned, we would have been better, true. I still like Buchanon, and would rather put a LB at CB than Faggins (exageration).

infantrycak
01-31-2006, 08:10 PM
You guys are looking at this draft from now,

That was the way the question was phrased. Did it hurt us?--yes.

TJ was never going to be there in the 2nd round for us.

Wolf
01-31-2006, 08:16 PM
Personall I thought our defensive scheme "stunk" and not sure who we would have put out there if it would have worked..

YoungTexanFan
01-31-2006, 08:21 PM
That was the way the question was phrased. Did it hurt us?--yes.

TJ was never going to be there in the 2nd round for us.

From my understanding, the ONLY other team even looking at him in the first was Cincy.

infantrycak
01-31-2006, 08:42 PM
From my understanding, the ONLY other team even looking at him in the first was Cincy.

That may have been the only team you heard about, but he was rated by most as the #1 DT and was listed all but, if not everywhere as a 1st rounder. I can understand disagreeing with picks, but it is funny how every pick which isn't liked becomes "he could have been had in the next round."

YoungTexanFan
01-31-2006, 08:54 PM
That may have been the only team you heard about, but he was rated by most as the #1 DT and was listed all but, if not everywhere as a 1st rounder. I can understand disagreeing with picks, but it is funny how every pick which isn't liked becomes "he could have been had in the next round."

I like TJ as a player, and how he is dedicated to the game. I think he will be good enough, I just did not, nor do I, think he warrented a first round pick. Especially not #16.

aj.
01-31-2006, 09:15 PM
Khalif Barnes is a below average RT only. I would not want him on the Texans.

.

Khalif Barnes started 12 games at left tackle last year as a rookie. He got his first start in Week 5 and never looked back - starting every game and doing a good job for the Jags the rest of the way.

Steve Marshall wanted him in a bad way last year (as did I, in some kind of late first - early second round scenario). I remember Barnes' pro-day at Washington when Marshall joked about hoping there was an extra seat on the plane for the trip back to Houston because that's how bad he wanted to bring him back here.

beerlover
01-31-2006, 10:56 PM
throw in Mankins and either one would have provided help to the Texans cause, but I just can't get over the job Lofa Tatupu has done for the Seahawks and he was a 2nd rd. pick. Is it just me or has anyone else been impressed by this kid, just watch him this Sunday in the Superbowl and you'll see how prime time he is playing MLB calling the defensive sets/assignments then reacting and making plays. I'm still waiting for the Texans to nail a 2nd rd. pick if Casserly trades another one away he should be exercised :evilb:

Kathmandu
01-31-2006, 11:29 PM
Ummmm ... sorry about the PBuch thing. Al Davis was shopping him around all over the place that offseason. The Jets would not give us a #3 for him. There was talk about Washington giving us a #3, but next thing you know ... we got a #2 and a #3.

The guy ran back a few kicks and made a couple of big plays, but if you saw any Raider games, it was easy to see that he could not cover or tackle.

:spy:

College Texan
02-01-2006, 02:22 AM
Last years first day should have gone:
1. Agree trade up and get TJ
2. Only in hindsight but Lofa Tatupu
3. Dominique Foxworth
4. Jerome Mathis
5. Drew Hodgon
6. Rob Petiti
7. C.C. Brown (if he fell this far)

nunusguy
02-01-2006, 08:43 AM
Ummmm ... sorry about the PBuch thing. Al Davis was shopping him around all over the place that offseason. The Jets would not give us a #3 for him. There was talk about Washington giving us a #3, but next thing you know ... we got a #2 and a #3.
The guy ran back a few kicks and made a couple of big plays, but if you saw any Raider games, it was easy to see that he could not cover or tackle.
:spy:
I dunno.....I'm not as critical of Casserly as many, and I think he's made a lot
of quality picks for the Texans. Now that Capers and assistants are gone, people look to him as the lone remaining scapegoat for the miserable 2005
season. Having said all of that, the trade for Buchannan is a real puzzle ?
Even ole man McNair was openly critical and upset about this decision,
so I have to figure that Casserly gave in to the wishes of his coaches to
a great extent, though that dosen't speak to highly of Casserlys judgement
either. And if the coaches had some say on this call, Hoke was most likely
involved yet he's still here ?
Draft picks are the basis for long-term growth and success of a team. The
one aspect where damage was moderate on this transaction was that, as I understand it, the relative cap hit was not substantial. Lets just hope we
don't have another personnel decision as poor as this one appears to be
anytime again soon.

Spoda
02-01-2006, 09:04 AM
look every player stunk last year..even our beloved D'Rob...the players admitted defensively we had no chance..they all hated the scheme...other that the piss poor tackling by phillip...you can't evaluate him yet..the opposing QB's had all day to pass....you can't cover all day...look nobody expects us to go to the playoffs or be 7-9 again..but with the new coaches and a "winning" attitude instead of let's not get blown out and see if we can back door a win, we'll see...at the very least the games should be exciting....

eclem5
02-01-2006, 09:26 AM
You guys are looking at this draft from now, if you looked at it before the draft we were getting an extremely fast CB that had experience and was a former 1st round pick. Also without so many injuries and without the OL totally breaking down again (despite efforts to make it better, IE Pace trade and Riley signing) we wouldn't have been 2-14
Any time Al Davis gives up a cornerback, You should be suspicious

Also the reports were, that he was mailing it in just like he proved, That's why our record fell this year major losses on defense and of course no improvement to the O-line

eclem5
02-01-2006, 09:31 AM
throw in Mankins and either one would have provided help to the Texans cause, but I just can't get over the job Lofa Tatupu has done for the Seahawks and he was a 2nd rd. pick. Is it just me or has anyone else been impressed by this kid, just watch him this Sunday in the Superbowl and you'll see how prime time he is playing MLB calling the defensive sets/assignments then reacting and making plays. I'm still waiting for the Texans to nail a 2nd rd. pick if Casserly trades another one away he should be exercised :evilb:

I agree, I also think Odell Thurman had a great year also:superman:

jerek
02-01-2006, 12:27 PM
Not sure how a combination of two of the following wouldn't have helped:

2nd round: Odell Thurman, Khalif Barnes, Darrent Williams or Justin Miller
3rd round: Richie Icognito, Kevin Everett, Domanique Foxworth or Nick Kaczur.

Not sure how much guys like those are hindsight being 20/20, but I for one would love to have them here.

I don't think P-Buc is a wash - yet. I want to see what Kubes and Co. can do with him this year before I punch his plane ticket. But I would hate for him to be a wash given the opportunity cost we paid for him.

yourfavoritetexan42
02-02-2006, 11:19 AM
The Good News: We could have easily been 8-8. 6 Close games lost, one blown on purpose (Bush Bowl... Andre Johnson's ankle hurting? Carr gets sacked and goes out (he can take a sack..history has proven it) and Kris Brown totally shanking the kick) Put this in perspective:

Starting with the offense:
-Offensive coordinator fired after week 2
-The coach of the worst nfl unit in the history of the nfl takes over (offensive line coach)
-Domanick Davis top RB 1000 yd rusher for texans-out most of the season
-Andre Johnson our ONLY receiving threat (along with davis...but hes out) out most the season
-Offensive Line: We never had the same starting 5 for more than 3 games due to injurys moving people around etc.

You look at that and your gameplanning, just blitz the crap out of the sorry offensive line...and the Texans will not be able to hurt you with any receiving or running weapons.

Having that bad of an offense translates in your defense being on the field all the time.
along with:

- Defensive Line: Walker out most the season, one of our team leaders
- Linebackers: Babin being benched, Wong out for season (our team captain
- Defensive backs didnt do that bad considering they had no pass rush.


So all the good news, all those injured players-Back. We have the best offensive running mind in the game and hes no slouch in passing either, with Davis and Johnson as weapons around Carr not even mentioning who we might pickup in the draft (bush) we could be a top 15 offensive team next year.

With having that good of an offense, having Buchanan a full offseason in houston, Wong back, Dunta Robinson is determined to have a pro bowl season next year. Our defense will be improved.

Oh and the one good thing we found during the 05 season, we have an awesome Kick Returner.


All and all we have made the right moves..it will just take time but we have that foundation to build on.

eclem5
02-02-2006, 12:08 PM
The Good News: We could have easily been 8-8. 6 Close games lost, one blown on purpose (Bush Bowl... Andre Johnson's ankle hurting? Carr gets sacked and goes out (he can take a sack..history has proven it) and Kris Brown totally shanking the kick) Put this in perspective:

Starting with the offense:
-Offensive coordinator fired after week 2
-The coach of the worst nfl unit in the history of the nfl takes over (offensive line coach)
-Domanick Davis top RB 1000 yd rusher for texans-out most of the season
-Andre Johnson our ONLY receiving threat (along with davis...but hes out) out most the season
-Offensive Line: We never had the same starting 5 for more than 3 games due to injurys moving people around etc.

You look at that and your gameplanning, just blitz the crap out of the sorry offensive line...and the Texans will not be able to hurt you with any receiving or running weapons.

Having that bad of an offense translates in your defense being on the field all the time.
along with:

- Defensive Line: Walker out most the season, one of our team leaders
- Linebackers: Babin being benched, Wong out for season (our team captain
- Defensive backs didnt do that bad considering they had no pass rush.


So all the good news, all those injured players-Back. We have the best offensive running mind in the game and hes no slouch in passing either, with Davis and Johnson as weapons around Carr not even mentioning who we might pickup in the draft (bush) we could be a top 15 offensive team next year.

With having that good of an offense, having Buchanan a full offseason in houston, Wong back, Dunta Robinson is determined to have a pro bowl season next year. Our defense will be improved.

Oh and the one good thing we found during the 05 season, we have an awesome Kick Returner.


All and all we have made the right moves..it will just take time but we have that foundation to build on.

You are very optimestic, very noble and will stand behind your leader blindly with out question, However, Please address the question posed:rolleyes: