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Texans Horror
01-31-2006, 01:55 PM
IMO, Kubiak is going to want a fast line next year. If they take an outside runner like Bush, chances are even better that our o-line will be dominated by fast linemen. For that reason, I believe Seth Wand will reappear on the starting line, and Pitts will shift back to guard. I have also heard that Weigert is pretty fast. I was wondering if anybody can talk line speed. Who is the fastest, who is the slowest (no Riley jokes, please). If you were to base our line around speed, who would you put out there?

Spoda
01-31-2006, 02:02 PM
IMO, Kubiak is going to want a fast line next year. If they take an outside runner like Bush, chances are even better that our o-line will be dominated by fast linemen. For that reason, I believe Seth Wand will reappear on the starting line, and Pitts will shift back to guard. I have also heard that Weigert is pretty fast. I was wondering if anybody can talk line speed. Who is the fastest, who is the slowest (no Riley jokes, please). If you were to base our line around speed, who would you put out there?


even if he was to be a backup..it would cost too much to cut him...charley has him locked up

Bubbajwp
01-31-2006, 02:05 PM
even if he was to be a backup..it would cost too much to cut him...charley has him locked up
who

DominickDavisFan76
01-31-2006, 02:06 PM
Forget if Weigert is fast and all that good stuff. first of all we might put pitts on the starting line but we have. Weigert,Hogdon,Mckinney which leaves me to our last 2 spots on the offensive line. We will probably take 2 rookies in the draft which im sure will get some playing time. but we will probably put wand on the line, but i think that pitts( if he even starts) will switch in with the rookie or rookies that we take in the draft with our 2nd and 3rd round picks. We also need an overall quick yet a good blocker at TE, we will probably get joppru in there(if he stays healthy) and block with bruener.

Spoda
01-31-2006, 02:08 PM
who


wade..the price to cut him is way to high....we are stuck with him no matter what

exclude
01-31-2006, 02:09 PM
Forget if Weigert is fast and all that good stuff. first of all we might put pitts on the starting line but we have. Weigert,Hogdon,Mckinney which leaves me to our last 2 spots on the offensive line. We will probably take 2 rookies in the draft which im sure will get some playing time. but we will probably put wand on the line, but i think that pitts( if he even starts) will switch in with the rookie or rookies that we take in the draft with our 2nd and 3rd round picks. We also need an overall quick yet a good blocker at TE, we will probably get joppru in there(if he stays healthy) and block with bruener.

Mckinney sucks.

Center is suppose to be the guy making blocking assignments yet we led the league in sacks allowed.

I say wwe purge the team of all of the expansion draftees, with the possible exception of Seth Payne.

TheOgre
01-31-2006, 02:09 PM
I'd like to see us draft two lineman and sign a veteran like Tom Nalen that has experience in the scheme.

DominickDavisFan76
01-31-2006, 02:21 PM
I totally forgot about wade he will be good once he stays healthy, i think we should still take 2 rookies in the draft, but what in the world are u saying!? if mckinney is so bad do u think the people making madden would agree with u? in Madden 05 he was 90 overall 2006 he is 89 overall,so u think someone that will be 88 overall sucks?? id rather take a player 88 overall instead of seth wand who is like 78 overall.

TheOgre
01-31-2006, 02:22 PM
Wade was the worst worst value per dollar spent on our roster in 2005.

DominickDavisFan76
01-31-2006, 02:24 PM
ya i know but he will get better and plus, u cant forget about wong he played 5 games this season and just got a contract extension. so that cost us a chunk of change.

ccdude730
01-31-2006, 02:31 PM
even with mckinney, he isnt that great at moving up to that 2nd level in run blocking and i cant seem to recall how well he does when hes asked to pull.

if we get the brick he and pitts would be the speed on the line that would anchor the tackle positions best (money wise wade would have to play since that money cant go to waste). any clue as to the interior line is beyond me with the specualtions on the board about bentley, hodgdon, weigert, and mckinney

DominickDavisFan76
01-31-2006, 02:37 PM
I know he cant step up on the line but once again he is past his prime, they are gonna use him this year take one more O lineman next year in the 2007 draft and release him then. but for now, u know they are gonna get bush, so we need lineman to pull, so in the offseason the lineman are gonna speed up and lose weight, so they can pull faster, so reggie can get to the outside

end of story our line gets bigger and quicker= Super Bowl Texans!!! (plus more pressure on the other team's QB)

Runner
01-31-2006, 02:41 PM
Interesting question. Let’s see…

I’ve heard Weigert is pretty fast despite his age - the problem is he’s injury prone. Contrary to popular belief, Pitts grades out better at guard then at tackle - I think he’s fast enough for the scheme. McKinney is adequate at guard but poor at center - although I don’t know what his speed is and he costs too much. Wand is definitely the fast tackle on the team - he needs to show what he has now that Pendry is gone. Brown would be good enough to back up the guard position - if that means limited playing time. Wade we have to keep since he’s more expensive to cut - however he’s too slow to be anything but a back-up. Hodgdon would be a good back-up center - I think he needs some seasoning. I don’t know if Washington or Weary fit at all.

Except for the Orlando Paces of the world, I am not sold on rookies making a big impact their first year on an o-line. Where does that leave us?

I think we need a proven free agent center that fits the scheme and that that Hodgdon can learn from. I’d like to flank him with Pitts and Weigert (and McKinney/Brown as back-up for if/when Weigert gets hurt), but that would leave us a tackle short. That means Pitts at one tackle and Wand at the other and Brown or McKinney at guard. I’d prefer Wand at LT, but he’d do very well at RT against the usually slower ends on that side.

I'd draft a couple of o-lineman for some first year seasoning - one guard, one tackle.

This would be a good run blocking line, and we must have that as a base. With good coaching, a solid center shoring up the middle, good schemes, and better blitz pick-up by the RBs, it would be middle of the road pass blocking line – which would be a vast improvement.

swtbound07
01-31-2006, 02:41 PM
I totally forgot about wade he will be good once he stays healthy, i think we should still take 2 rookies in the draft, but what in the world are u saying!? if mckinney is so bad do u think the people making madden would agree with u? in Madden 05 he was 90 overall 2006 he is 89 overall,so u think someone that will be 88 overall sucks?? id rather take a player 88 overall instead of seth wand who is like 78 overall.


good lord. you are really bringing madden into an intelligent football discussion? what the heck? And on a side note....if you still have mckinney on your o-line in your franchise, you arent playing the game right :yahoo:

Kaiser Toro
01-31-2006, 02:43 PM
I know he cant step up on the line but once again he is past his prime, they are gonna use him this year take one more O lineman next year in the 2007 draft and release him then. but for now, u know they are gonna get bush, so we need lineman to pull, so in the offseason the lineman are gonna speed up and lose weight, so they can pull faster, so reggie can get to the outside

end of story our line gets bigger and quicker= Super Bowl Texans!!! (plus more pressure on the other team's QB)

Interesting take. What happens if we do not score any Oline men in FA, we draft Bush and do not get the guys in the draft that we hoped would be there? We then have an overpaid line that has tried to become a zone blocking team, but with larger players when compared to Denver. Then we have two #1 overall picks and one #3 on the offensive side of the ball, roughly which will equate to a 23 million cap hit on a ~93 million number. Our three most expensive assets will be exposed and prone to injury in an already physical game.

Runner
01-31-2006, 02:48 PM
Interesting take. What happens if we do not score any Oline men in, we draft Bush and do not get the guys in the draft that we hoped would be there? We then have an overpaid line that has tried to become a zone blocking team, but with larger players when compared to Denver. Then we have two #1 overall picks and one #3 on the offensive side of the ball, roughly which will equate to a 23 million cap hit on a ~93 million number. Our three most expensive assets will be exposed and prone to injury in an already physical game.

The more I look at this cap stuff (which you give us ample opportunity to see :) ), the more trade down seems to be in order to get more bang for the buck. It would give us an opportunity to shore up both sides of the ball and more of our weaknesses.

MorKnolle
01-31-2006, 02:53 PM
Forget if Weigert is fast and all that good stuff. first of all we might put pitts on the starting line but we have. Weigert,Hogdon,Mckinney which leaves me to our last 2 spots on the offensive line. We will probably take 2 rookies in the draft which im sure will get some playing time. but we will probably put wand on the line, but i think that pitts( if he even starts) will switch in with the rookie or rookies that we take in the draft with our 2nd and 3rd round picks. We also need an overall quick yet a good blocker at TE, we will probably get joppru in there(if he stays healthy) and block with bruener.

I was trying to figure out where you were coming from on this post, then I saw:

I totally forgot about wade he will be good once he stays healthy, i think we should still take 2 rookies in the draft, but what in the world are u saying!? if mckinney is so bad do u think the people making madden would agree with u? in Madden 05 he was 90 overall 2006 he is 89 overall,so u think someone that will be 88 overall sucks?? id rather take a player 88 overall instead of seth wand who is like 78 overall.

Contrary, to what the designers of Madden think (BTW player ratings for the 2006 version of the game were done somewhere in April-May 2005), Chester Pitts is by far our best OLineman. Steve McKinney needs to be cut unless he takes a substantial pay cut, he is decent in run blocking but cannot pass block to save his life. Wiegert is fine for another year or so, but after his contract runs out after next season we need to have a replacement for him ready. Hodgdon is a decent pass blocker but I don't trust his run blocking yet and I don't know if he's a long-term solution at C. Wade is also terrible, similar to McKinney that he can run block ok but can't pass block. It's unfortunate that we gave him that contract because we can't get rid of him right now, either way we need to look for another OT in the draft because Wade is not good anymore. Milford Brown, Todd Washington, and Seth Wand or ok as backups, not as starters. We need to get at least one more OG/C this year too, hopefully LeCharles Bentley in free agency, then draft a OG that is good enough to come start this coming year, then look for another one in a later round that can sit for a year and then replace Wiegert in 2007.

I know he cant step up on the line but once again he is past his prime, they are gonna use him this year take one more O lineman next year in the 2007 draft and release him then. but for now, u know they are gonna get bush, so we need lineman to pull, so in the offseason the lineman are gonna speed up and lose weight, so they can pull faster, so reggie can get to the outside

end of story our line gets bigger and quicker= Super Bowl Texans!!! (plus more pressure on the other team's QB)

Your guards are the primary guys that pull, that is why in zone blocking they are generally smaller, but we don't need everyone on the OLine to be small. We need guys (especially at OT) that are big and will hold up the end of the line, we can't just have a bunch of TEs out there on our OLine that are faster but will get run over. An offense cannot be built on primarily running the ball to the outside, it just doesn't work that well in the NFL, so Reggie Bush is either going to have to run up the middle a lot of the time, be used primarily as a WR, or find a different team to go to.

ccdude730
01-31-2006, 02:55 PM
there has been alot of discussion about pitts returning to guard and i see this scenario playing out with (d'brick-pitts-CENTER-RG-wade)

but you can also keep pitts at tackle with this other scenario (d'brick-LG-C-RG-pitts).

both scenarios i have put out here have more combinations than just these. for example mckinney can move to LG or stay at C (hopefully not though) and we might sign bentley who can play G or C.

but what im really trying to get at after beating around the bush so long concerns pitts. for those who would like him at G, why do you feel this way and for those believe he could be an elite tackle, why do you feel this way?

jmerog
01-31-2006, 03:07 PM
The more I look at this cap stuff (which you give us ample opportunity to see :) ), the more trade down seems to be in order to get more bang for the buck. It would give us an opportunity to shore up both sides of the ball and more of our weaknesses.


Which is why I say trade down!!

DominickDavisFan76
01-31-2006, 03:09 PM
No, Bush will be used to run outside, because as a rookie he is too small to run up the middle, so that is where DD comes in . I Have seen him break out on a lot of up the gut plays so not do we need big lineman but we need fast lineman.

O yea, i wasnt sayin put TEs at Oline, i said, to help establish the run a big TE would help. for Example Mark Breuner, a 3rd or 2nd round TE, or even Joppru ( if he doesnt get hurt.)

HardKnockTexan
01-31-2006, 03:14 PM
IMO, Kubiak is going to want a fast line next year. If they take an outside runner like Bush, chances are even better that our o-line will be dominated by fast linemen. For that reason, I believe Seth Wand will reappear on the starting line, and Pitts will shift back to guard. I have also heard that Weigert is pretty fast. I was wondering if anybody can talk line speed. Who is the fastest, who is the slowest (no Riley jokes, please). If you were to base our line around speed, who would you put out there?

I'm not sure where to find an actual 40 time for NFL lineman so I went to my best source for player attributes... Madden 07 for the 360. Now I'm not sure how acurate these ratings are but it's the bet I could find.

The slowest lineman we have is M.Brown with 48 out of a possible 99.
Next is T.Wade at 49/99
S.Wand and Z.Wiegert are both at 51/99
D.Hodgdon and F.Weary are at 52/99
T.Washington is at 55/99
C.Pitts is 56/99
and Madden has McKinney as our fastest lineman giving him 58 out of 99 points.

I'm not sure how accurate these attributes are. To give Madden 07 a little credit, it has predicted every playoff game accurateley so far...better picking percentage than any pro sports bet agencies.

Runner
01-31-2006, 03:26 PM
Which is why I say trade down!!

I know, I was a trade down guy for a while at the end of the season. Then I thought about Bush's playmaking ability and swayed a little bit. Now my pendulum is swinging back to trade down (getting a good first round pick and a proven verteran in a need position as part of the package).

Texans Horror
01-31-2006, 03:29 PM
Thanks, but I don't know Madden very well. Can you extrapolate on your numbers? What is 99? I'm assuming these aren't times. Thanks!

HardKnockTexan
01-31-2006, 03:36 PM
Thanks, but I don't know Madden very well. Can you extrapolate on your numbers? What is 99? I'm assuming these aren't times. Thanks!


In Madden all atributes are based on a 99 point scale. Pretty much every measurable catagory is covered such as speed, strength, awarness, blocking, tackling, jumping, etc... a player with 99/99 speed ie: Jerome Mathis are the fastest in the game where players like M.Brown with a 48/99 ranking sprint as fast as some players walk.

It's not a perfect system by far but Madden does do a very good job at building player stats to mirror their real life player personas.

Texans Horror
01-31-2006, 03:38 PM
In Madden all atributes are based on a 99 point scale. Pretty much every measurable catagory is covered such as speed, strength, awarness, blocking, tackling, jumping, etc... a player with 99/99 speed ie: Jerome Mathis are the fastest in the game where players like M.Brown with a 48/99 ranking sprint as fast as some players walk.

It's not a perfect system by far but Madden does do a very good job at building player stats to mirror their real life player personas.

Thanks for the input. I was wondering where that was coming from. Personally, I'm waiting for the Dan Fouts version. It may be a little duller, but I expect it to be heavy on the stats!

Texans Horror
01-31-2006, 03:45 PM
I'm not sure where to find an actual 40 time for NFL lineman so I went to my best source for player attributes... Madden 07 for the 360. Now I'm not sure how acurate these ratings are but it's the bet I could find.

The slowest lineman we have is M.Brown with 48 out of a possible 99.
Next is T.Wade at 49/99
S.Wand and Z.Wiegert are both at 51/99
D.Hodgdon and F.Weary are at 52/99
T.Washington is at 55/99
C.Pitts is 56/99
and Madden has McKinney as our fastest lineman giving him 58 out of 99 points.

I'm not sure how accurate these attributes are. To give Madden 07 a little credit, it has predicted every playoff game accurateley so far...better picking percentage than any pro sports bet agencies.

I'm not sure about the validity of the stats, but if what it says about Pitts is near the truth, that he is a speed man, then the Wand/Pitts combo would again do a great service to the Texans.