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View Full Version : Houston does not need Bush!


rocketw
01-30-2006, 09:33 PM
We do not need a running back that is kept under 100 yards by the #6 college defense. Reggie bush is fast and can cut, but he lacks power. Additionally, he makes great use of blockers, blockers we do not have. Reggie Bush will get eaten alive by defensive linemen that are as fast as him and LB's that are faster and bigger, as you commonly find in the NFL.

Lendale White would be a better choice. He has strength, size, just as much speed, but better durability. He will be much more equipped to go toe to toe with NFL players. He can make holes when he needs to. And, he is not carrying that huge chip on his shoulder that Bush has. White feels like he has something to prove and will work for it. Bush thinks he will be an instant winner. His luck would be better in the lottery. Bush would be a huge waste of money.

Leinart or Young would be better than Carr. Carr has spent too much time on his back. We have to wonder about how long he will be able to play given the 4 year beating he has had. He stares down receivers, letting defenses know exactly where he is throwing.

Leinart has better mechanics, pocket presence, and has been tutored by Norm Chow. Chow knows how to educate quarterbacks (see Carson Palmer). In the absence of that, Young would be better as his speed would instantly be an improvement over Carr, and his arm is better as well. The sentimental value would not be unappreciated either.

The best thing we could do is trade down, pick up Lendale White and some offensive linemen. Barring that, get Young or Leinart. Bush is not the answer for Houston. It will be another Ryan Leaf type draft.

Grid
01-30-2006, 09:48 PM
#1 where are you getting Texas as the #6 defense? I can find no reliable rankings for College defenses..but the majority of people ive talked to rank them #1-#3.

#2 he got 82 rushing yards at a 6.3 yards per carry average. He got 92 receiving yards at a 15 yards per catch average. That is a total of 174 yards against one of the highest ranked defenses in the nation.

#3 run blocking is different than pass blocking and we have a fairly good run blocking line.

#4 Reggie Bush was 208 pounds last time I heard..and planned on gaining some more before the Combine. at 6'0" 210 (lets say thats what he gets to) he is almost the same size as Edge. he is bigger than Tiki Barber. He is as big as Marshall Faulk. He is as big as Curtis Martin. If he can get up to 215.. he will start being comparable to the LTs and Shaun Alexanders of the league.

#5 He had no reason to be durable and powerful in college.. White ran for the tough yards. Now that he is coming to the pros..he is putting on some pounds.

#6 Lendale White is not faster than Bush. And, incidentally, averaged fewer carries per game than Bush.

#7 Bush has no chip on his shoulder that im aware of. He actually seems pretty humble and intelligent.

#8 I would hesitate to claim that any college player would be better than a pro before you have seen them take a single snap in the NFL

#9 Young's arm is not better than Carr's.

#10 I agree that trading down is a tempting option... but so is Bush. Young and Lienart are, in my opinion, unnecessary picks. Also.. taking white on a trade down wouldnt make much sense.. the only reason we will take Bush is because he is a playmaker of higher quality than anyone else in the draft. We are taking him to give us more options on offense and a constant touchdown threat. White wouldnt give us that.

Texans_Chick
01-30-2006, 09:50 PM
So, uh, who is gonna win the Superbowl and what stocks should I pick? It must be nice to know the future. :)

Welcome to the message board. Usually, you can add comments like you just made to many existing threads that have similar points of view. Just saying.

:texflag:

Texans_Chick
01-30-2006, 10:07 PM
I agree that trading down is a tempting option... but so is Bush. Young and Lienart are, in my opinion, unnecessary picks. Also.. taking white on a trade down wouldnt make much sense.. the only reason we will take Bush is because he is a playmaker of higher quality than anyone else in the draft. We are taking him to give us more options on offense and a constant touchdown threat. White wouldnt give us that.

Here is a :stirpot: article that disagrees, FWIW (warning ugly anti-Texas tone and from a Cowboy fan, no less):

link:-Why the Texans would be stupid to draft Bush instead of Young
(http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=4879)

BuffSoldier
01-30-2006, 10:15 PM
We do not need a running back that is kept under 100 yards by the #6 college defense. Reggie bush is fast and can cut, but he lacks power. Additionally, he makes great use of blockers, blockers we do not have. Reggie Bush will get eaten alive by defensive linemen that are as fast as him and LB's that are faster and bigger, as you commonly find in the NFL.

Lendale White would be a better choice. He has strength, size, just as much speed, but better durability. He will be much more equipped to go toe to toe with NFL players. He can make holes when he needs to. And, he is not carrying that huge chip on his shoulder that Bush has. White feels like he has something to prove and will work for it. Bush thinks he will be an instant winner. His luck would be better in the lottery. Bush would be a huge waste of money.

Leinart or Young would be better than Carr. Carr has spent too much time on his back. We have to wonder about how long he will be able to play given the 4 year beating he has had. He stares down receivers, letting defenses know exactly where he is throwing.

Leinart has better mechanics, pocket presence, and has been tutored by Norm Chow. Chow knows how to educate quarterbacks (see Carson Palmer). In the absence of that, Young would be better as his speed would instantly be an improvement over Carr, and his arm is better as well. The sentimental value would not be unappreciated either.

The best thing we could do is trade down, pick up Lendale White and some offensive linemen. Barring that, get Young or Leinart. Bush is not the answer for Houston. It will be another Ryan Leaf type draft.

First post and already out of the blocks smokin'. Welcome to the Houston Texans message board and here is how all the first time posters get responded to... with criticism.

1. No D-Lineman, or LB in the NFL is faster that Reggie Bush. I estimate that Bush is faster than 91% of the total NFL. He is much faster than White.

2. There is absolutely no reason to draft a QB in the draft, so many other needs to fill.

3. If we draft a RB it will be Bush. The Texans wouldnt even consider drafting a RB had Bush decidedto return for his senior season. White in a Texans uniform I dont think is an option.

4. No way any QBb in the draft with an exeption of Cutler could challenge Carrs arm strength.

jaayteetx
01-30-2006, 10:20 PM
Defensive lineman as fast as Bush? Where are these guys and how come we don't have any?:crazy:

Errant Hothy
01-30-2006, 10:25 PM
Blah, blah, blah and blah!

Welcome, now learn how to use the friggin' search button.

Whats that you say, you don't see a search button. Top of every page third button from the rigth. And quess what eveything you typed for you first post has been said, and debated, to death.

Once again Welcome, now please stop repeating thread and using space for arguements that have been debated to death.

El Tejano
01-30-2006, 10:41 PM
I think one thing people forget about Reggie Bush is that this game against Texas was his 3rd National Championship game. Although Texas did contain him, he did play against better defenses the previous two years and he was still awesome.

To be honest, I am looking at Reggie as a Ronnie Harmon type back that will be able to come in and make things happen for us.

stevo3883
01-30-2006, 11:39 PM
I think one thing people forget about Reggie Bush is that this game against Texas was his 3rd National Championship game. Although Texas did contain him, he did play against better defenses the previous two years and he was still awesome.

To be honest, I am looking at Reggie as a Ronnie Harmon type back that will be able to come in and make things happen for us.

USC played #2 OU last year, with a defense that was very good against the run, but very weak against the pass.

year before that, USC played #6(i think) michigan, who had nowhere close to as good a Defense as UT this year,.

WILLIEG
01-31-2006, 12:21 AM
I'm really beginning to think that some of these MB threads are being started by fans from other teams with all the committs they make towards this player and that player. Which is to me absolutely crazy. Bush and Young both had great games. One is a 2 time national champ while the other took his team all the way this year. Whatever way the Texans lean towards is going to be the way I'm sure is best for the organization. How could they go wrong with Bush/Young/Tradedown only if we get D'brick. We're truly in a no loose situation and I will continue to be a loyal fan forever!

Apoch
01-31-2006, 12:37 AM
Wow, this should be fun. Lets get started....


We do not need a running back that is kept under 100 yards by the #6 college defense. Reggie bush is fast and can cut, but he lacks power. Additionally, he makes great use of blockers, blockers we do not have. Reggie Bush will get eaten alive by defensive linemen that are as fast as him and LB's that are faster and bigger, as you commonly find in the NFL.

First of all, lets look at Bush's stats. I'm assuming you are talking about the National Championship game, so here is his line...

13 carries, 82 yards, 6.3 ypc, 1 TD
6 receptions, 95 yards, 15.8 avr

So in one game, Bush had 19 total touches for 177 yards and a TD for an average of 9.3 yards per touch. Also, notice his number of carries. It isn't often you see someone carry the ball 13 times and yet have his kind of output. This argument means nothing and should never have been typed up.

...and as for D-lineman and LBs being faster than Bush...

There is only one LB I've ever heard of that ran a 40 in less than 4.4 (Boss Bailey, Detroit), and the fastest D-lineman I've ever seen is Jevon Kearse (who is basically a LB) who ran a 4.43 at his combine. Bush had consistently ran his 40s in the 4.3 range, and one time he was reported to hit the high 4.2 range. Lets get this straight, there is no LB or DL in the NFL that is as fast as Bush is right now. ...and as far as acceleration is concerned, he is in a class with people like Dante Hall and Marshall Faulk.

Lendale White would be a better choice. He has strength, size, just as much speed, but better durability. He will be much more equipped to go toe to toe with NFL players. He can make holes when he needs to. And, he is not carrying that huge chip on his shoulder that Bush has. White feels like he has something to prove and will work for it. Bush thinks he will be an instant winner. His luck would be better in the lottery. Bush would be a huge waste of money.

This entire paragraph is subjective and pathetic. White is not nearly as fast as Bush, has had more nagging nicks and dings, is no more equiped that Reggie because he is no where near the receiver Bush is, will most likely have a shorter career (as powerbacks do), and (judging by grades) is not as intelligent as Bush either.

Also, at no time has Bush ever professed, made obvious, or alluded to any "chip on his shoulder" about anything. He has never made an "I'm the greatest" speech, thanked his "hands for being so great," or even done the Heisman pose like most Heisman winners do. If anything he has shown a good deal of humility in talking about the draft, the type of team he will go to, what he needs to do to be ready, and how he matches up at the next level.

Leinart or Young would be better than Carr. Carr has spent too much time on his back. We have to wonder about how long he will be able to play given the 4 year beating he has had. He stares down receivers, letting defenses know exactly where he is throwing.

Leinart has better mechanics, pocket presence, and has been tutored by Norm Chow. Chow knows how to educate quarterbacks (see Carson Palmer). In the absence of that, Young would be better as his speed would instantly be an improvement over Carr, and his arm is better as well. The sentimental value would not be unappreciated either.

Leinart has shown this year that his arm strength is average, and he loses accuracy when he has to throw it 30 yards on a rope. He is not nearly as mobile as Carr is, has always played with amazing talent, and has a head coach who is better than anything Houston has had over the past 5 years.

Carr on the other hand has had a putrid offense with a sad, sad OC, a pathetic line, and a serious dearth of reliable receiving options. Carr's mechanics may not have been as good when he came out of college, but even with a sidearm delivery his arm strength was better than Leinart's is now. He also proved how well he can throw the deep ball in '04 (if the O-line will protect him).

The best thing we could do is trade down, pick up Lendale White and some offensive linemen. Barring that, get Young or Leinart. Bush is not the answer for Houston. It will be another Ryan Leaf type draft.

The perfect ending to a perfectly wasted piece of board space, eh? Lendale White will most certainly not be in our range. Also, trading down is becoming harder and harder to do with the rest of the prospects solidifying and the other teams needing players (so they won't trade their other round picks).

Bush could very well be the answer for Houston; especially with a whole offseason of changes coming. With his talent he could very quickly become one of the best offensive players in the NFL, and with a guy like Kubiak he won't be held back.

bckey
01-31-2006, 01:23 AM
I think one thing people forget about Reggie Bush is that this game against Texas was his 3rd National Championship game.

His second. The media crowned them co-champions 2 years ago but LSU actually were the champs.

thunderkyss
01-31-2006, 08:40 AM
Nothing against Reggie, but if we're going to pull up old arguments:

1) our team ran for 1800 yards this past year....... Our Franchise back missed 5 games this past year. We have two reasons to believe our Running game will greatly improve in 2006.........
A: We have an offensive minded zone blocking Guru for a head coach now. If he does his job, we should be able to get between 200-400 yards added to last years total.
B: With better blocking, our Franchise Back should be able to stay healthy.... add 100 yards per game, 5 games... that should be about 500 yards added to last seasons total. Of course that will take away from the yards contributed by Wells(who will still get a number of touches, if we keep him) and Morency(??) so we'll say a net gain of at least 300 yards......
I may be off number wise, but I'm sure our run game will improve greatly without what we already have. If we also add another lineman who plays better than what we have, those numbers go up again.

2) Reggie Bush is more than just a change of pace running back...... he's a totally different mold. I've watched several highlight clips downloaded from the internet, and most every thing I've seen has him either catching the ball out of the backfield, or he started on the line of Scrimmage. I've seen two plays in his highlights, were he was handed the ball like a typical 'back. If that is where his playmaking ability lies, then he needs to go to a team with that kind of offensive mentallity...... not a Denver, or Houston where the RB is handed the ball, and is expected to run betweent he tackles.

3) If I thought David Carr could be Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Steve Young, then I'd absolutely trade down. But I'm thinking we'll be looking for a new QB in the next two years anyway. Draft Young, sit him on the bench for two years....... We aren't in any hurry to get to the superbowl, we don't have an aging QB who has one maybe two good years left in him. We don't have a coach that came out of retirement to win a Superbowl, who is starting to bore, and is considering going back into retirement. We're not even playing in a conference that is projected to be week in the next few years, that we need to take advantage of. Heck, 2006 would be considered a success by many, if we can put together a 3 game winning streak.

CaptainPatriot
01-31-2006, 08:57 AM
you are speaking to the Chior what happens when D stops the run? Its all in Carr`s hands. We know what he does in the 4th Q!:brickwall

CaptainPatriot
01-31-2006, 09:04 AM
Nothing against Reggie, but if we're going to pull up old arguments:

1) our team ran for 1800 yards this past year....... Our Franchise back missed 5 games this past year. We have two reasons to believe our Running game will greatly improve in 2006.........
A: We have an offensive minded zone blocking Guru for a head coach now. If he does his job, we should be able to get between 200-400 yards added to last years total.
B: With better blocking, our Franchise Back should be able to stay healthy.... add 100 yards per game, 5 games... that should be about 500 yards added to last seasons total. Of course that will take away from the yards contributed by Wells(who will still get a number of touches, if we keep him) and Morency(??) so we'll say a net gain of at least 300 yards......
I may be off number wise, but I'm sure our run game will improve greatly without what we already have. If we also add another lineman who plays better than what we have, those numbers go up again.

2) Reggie Bush is more than just a change of pace running back...... he's a totally different mold. I've watched several highlight clips downloaded from the internet, and most every thing I've seen has him either catching the ball out of the backfield, or he started on the line of Scrimmage. I've seen two plays in his highlights, were he was handed the ball like a typical 'back. If that is where his playmaking ability lies, then he needs to go to a team with that kind of offensive mentallity...... not a Denver, or Houston where the RB is handed the ball, and is expected to run betweent he tackles.

3) If I thought David Carr could be Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Steve Young, then I'd absolutely trade down. But I'm thinking we'll be looking for a new QB in the next two years anyway. Draft Young, sit him on the bench for two years....... We aren't in any hurry to get to the superbowl, we don't have an aging QB who has one maybe two good years left in him. We don't have a coach that came out of retirement to win a Superbowl, who is starting to bore, and is considering going back into retirement. We're not even playing in a conference that is projected to be week in the next few years, that we need to take advantage of. Heck, 2006 would be considered a success by many, if we can put together a 3 game winning streak.


I agree with you 100% on #3!:redtowel:

kastofsna
01-31-2006, 11:52 AM
if you trade down, why in the hell would you take lendale white? i see a lot of ron dayne in white. he's a big guy who will try to cut too much, and while it works with a massive line in front of him, that won't cut it in the bigs. bush can run between the tackles well, he just hasn't done it much (which is good, as his legs are very fresh--his whole body is, in fact). the reason you take reggie bush isn't because you necessarily need a runningback, but because he's a very special player who will play all over the field and impact how a defense gameplans for you. lendale white won't

just draft matt leinart. win a few super bowls. thank me later

jgite
01-31-2006, 04:41 PM
if you trade down, why in the hell would you take lendale white? i see a lot of ron dayne in white. he's a big guy who will try to cut too much, and while it works with a massive line in front of him, that won't cut it in the bigs. bush can run between the tackles well, he just hasn't done it much (which is good, as his legs are very fresh--his whole body is, in fact). the reason you take reggie bush isn't because you necessarily need a runningback, but because he's a very special player who will play all over the field and impact how a defense gameplans for you. lendale white won't

just draft matt leinart. win a few super bowls. thank me later

Reggie Bush rarely ran between the tackles in college. I'm not a USC expert but I caught quite a few USC games and he rarely did that. Even in the Rose Bowl when Lendale White was gashing the Texas front and tiring them out. Bush still never ran between the tackles. He keep running outside and only turned the corner once (The diving touchdown that he had.)

LBC_Justin
01-31-2006, 09:40 PM
We do not need a running back that is kept under 100 yards by the #6 college defense. Reggie bush is fast and can cut, but he lacks power. Additionally, he makes great use of blockers, blockers we do not have. Reggie Bush will get eaten alive by defensive linemen that are as fast as him and LB's that are faster and bigger, as you commonly find in the NFL.

Lendale White would be a better choice. He has strength, size, just as much speed, but better durability. He will be much more equipped to go toe to toe with NFL players. He can make holes when he needs to. And, he is not carrying that huge chip on his shoulder that Bush has. White feels like he has something to prove and will work for it. Bush thinks he will be an instant winner. His luck would be better in the lottery. Bush would be a huge waste of money.

Leinart or Young would be better than Carr. Carr has spent too much time on his back. We have to wonder about how long he will be able to play given the 4 year beating he has had. He stares down receivers, letting defenses know exactly where he is throwing.

Leinart has better mechanics, pocket presence, and has been tutored by Norm Chow. Chow knows how to educate quarterbacks (see Carson Palmer). In the absence of that, Young would be better as his speed would instantly be an improvement over Carr, and his arm is better as well. The sentimental value would not be unappreciated either.

The best thing we could do is trade down, pick up Lendale White and some offensive linemen. Barring that, get Young or Leinart. Bush is not the answer for Houston. It will be another Ryan Leaf type draft.
BTW I watched every USC game this year. Anyone who watched the games will tell you Lendale White is not nearly as good as Reggie Bush, not even close. Most people who think Lendale White is better only saw the Rose Bowl.

If you want to Trade down far enough to grab Lendale, you draft Vernon Davis at tight end instead.

This is a repost of a previous post I made. It is intended to ENLIGHTEN you about Bush.

everyone keeps saying that Reggie Bush was shut down in the Rose Bowl. LOL no way. Yes his performance was way overshadowed by VY's but he still had a great game, maybe not great by Reggie Bush standards but still great none the less.

Let me put it into perspective.

In the RoseBowl, which was one of his worst games of the year.
He...
averaged 6.3 yard per carry, rushing for 82 yards.
averaged 15.8 yards per catch, receiving for 95 yards.
1 TD

If his stats for the RoseBowl game were exstrapulated into a full 16 game NFL Season.
Recieving: He would be the #2 Wide Reciever in the NFL in total yards and he would be the #5 Wide Reciever in Yards per catch.
Rushing: He would be #1 rusher in yards per carry and he would be the #10 rusher in the NFL in total rushing yards. (All this while only getting 1/2 the carries, because of Lendale.)
Scoring: He would be the #4 in the NFL for most Touchdowns scored by any position.
All purpose yards: He would be #1 in the NFL in All purpose yards.

I know the stats don't convert like that to the NFL but the point is many people think UT shut him down in the Rose Bowl. No they didn't. In fact if Lendale White converts a 4th and 2 or the USC defense makes one 4th down stop, people would view this whole game differently, as USC is the winner.

Keep in mind that the UT defense had a "Spy" on him to keep him from breaking big plays. He still managed to break a few big plays both as a reciever and as a runner.

Reggie Bush is the real deal and he proved it over and over this entire season. He didn't just have one or two big games. He had lots of big games. Is he as big as his hype? no, no one could possible as big as the hype machine that ESPN has created for him. Just like VY is not as good as his hype. In this day and age of 24 hour TV/Radio coverage, no one can live up to the legend that Sports Center can make a player.

Another thing.
Pick any NFL running back, past or present. Compare their Yard per Carry as a college players to Reggie Bush's 8.7 ypc he had his Junior year. That should sell you.

As a Longhorn living in the heart of USC country, I hated all the hype Bush was getting. I watched every USC game looking for reasons this guy isn't the real deal and reasons not to like him. He is the real deal and lucky for the Texans we are going to be in a postion to get one of the best College rusher ever and a guy who will make a huge impact on our team NEXT YEAR. Not 2 years from now but NEXT YEAR.

NederlandTexan
01-31-2006, 10:02 PM
Yes, Houston does need Reggie Bush! He is the most explosive player in the draft. He is big enough to run inside ( same size as Tiki Barber, who runs inside ). Drafting D'Brick does not guarantee you a starter this year at LT ( see Robert Gallery, last years "franchise LT", who plays RT ). This is a great draft for OL, quality can be found at the 33rd pick. Yes coaching does make a difference, even our past staff. When they (rarely) attacked, they were awesome. Rewind to the first half of the Rams game. GO REGGIE!

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 01:18 PM
Yes, Houston does need Reggie Bush! He is the most explosive player in the draft. He is big enough to run inside ( same size as Tiki Barber, who runs inside ). Drafting D'Brick does not guarantee you a starter this year at LT ( see Robert Gallery, last years "franchise LT", who plays RT ). This is a great draft for OL, quality can be found at the 33rd pick. Yes coaching does make a difference, even our past staff. When they (rarely) attacked, they were awesome. Rewind to the first half of the Rams game. GO REGGIE!

hey NederlandTexan..... I live right across 365from you... Kewl huh??

Anyway......... no we don't need Reggie Bush, regardless of how explosive he is... Our run game is probably going to improve most next year just because of the coaching change. DD will get the job done. We need help in the passing game. Directly, not by giving the defense something else to look at. Passing Game... OL, QB, TE, or WR... more or less in that order.

Samer
02-02-2006, 01:39 PM
We should just draft Bush and get it over with

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 10:48 PM
I just don't see the need for Bush.... I just don't. It'll be a waste of a pick.

MorKnolle
02-02-2006, 11:48 PM
I just don't see the need for Bush.... I just don't. It'll be a waste of a pick.

I agree that we don't need Bush, but I wouldn't call him a waste of the pick. He'd help the team a lot more than Vince Young in my opinion, so if we can't get a decent deal to trade down to grab Mario or maybe D'Brick then we should draft Bush at #1, unless Mario puts up a huge combine workout and is truly as athletic as Julius Peppers, then we could just take him at #1.